Damansky incident - How China and USSR Almost Went to War - Cold War
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ธ.ค. 2022
- Our historical documentary series on the history of the Cold War continues with a video on the Damansky (Zhenbao) Island border incident - a minor skirmish that almost led to a war between the USSR and China.
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my father served until 1988 in the Soviet army in East Germany, but most of his friends served on the Chinese border, and they described the situation as such "we had disagreements with the Chinese, but we were ready to compromise, the Chinese on the other hand were nuts, running into machine gun fire unarmed just to stoke up the tensions, they were industrially weak, but insane."
Fast forward to 2022, Russia is now a junior partner to China. How the turntables
yah the Chinese were super brainwashed at the time, to North Korea levels, Many Red Guard thought that their little red mao books would make them bullet proof, it was that crazy back then. Good thing Mao died, and his wife got put in jail and more saner Chinese leadership took over.
Agree
Now, they're industrially strong...but still insane.
Heard of 'suicide by cop'? This sounds like 'execution by enemy'. Deng Xiaoping did it in the Sino-VN war.
Worse the De Gaulle. That's got to hurt.
I was about to write the same. Talk about shots fired. 😂
Beat me to it! Zing.
I laughed hard at that one.
This is the respect a fellow autocrat showed.
De Gaulle for sure was not amused.
My dad served in Shenyang Military Region at that time. Basically, his unit was at the 'frontline'. As a combat engineer, he spent hundreds of hours on anti-tank training with all kinds of TNT, and tank traps. Because they didn't have enough proper anti-tank weapons, the anti-tank mission basically is suicide. He said if USSR launched a full attack, his whole platoon probably will be killed.
My dad served in a US Forward strike airbase in Germany. If WWIII broke out he would have five minutes to scramble their alert planes away on their predetermined missions because the nearby Soviet helicopter base could get to them in 6. After which they would probably all die. I too am thankful that didn’t happen.
@GN M it was actually the t62 that sank into the river. not destroyed
@@carkawalakhatulistiwa Agreed, but adding some details here: That T62 was disabled by an AT mine, it's crew killed by PLA soldiers. The tank set on frozen river surface overnight because the PLA couldn't retreive it, and was blown into the river by Soviet artillary next day to eliminate the chance of being captured, but was later raised from the river bottom by PLA Navy divers and is now sitting in a museum in Beijing.
@@09huangr what did they do with the remains of the cannon fodder?
@@tzenzhongguo International Jugglers' Association?
My mom was originally born in Harbin (the largest Chinese city near China-Soviet border), which was a major industrial hub in northern China, less than 800 kilometers from Damansky Island. During and after the Damansky Incident, my grandparents were given the impression that an imminent WW3 was about to happen. So they sent my mom who was less than 9 years old to Shanghai to live with my great-grandparents, just to avoid the potential war.
We can say thank you to your mom for stopping the WWIII
你应该用“珍宝岛”，而不是“达曼斯基”
0l
I was 8 years old, when Miss Sheila Gorman, my Third Grade Teacher said:
"Now Class, listen to this: If a missile hits the School, we'll be safe, because
the Hallway will protect us."
It was October 1962, during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
I did not know WHERE Cuba was on the Map, since we did not Study Geography until 4th Grade.
My 8-year-old brain tried to understand what the Teacher was telling us.
I thought: "Does she know what she's talking about? Will the Hallway really protect us from a Nuclear Missile? No, it won't! We are all going to die!"
But then one minute later, I thought:
"She MUST know what she's talking about! SHE'S the Teacher!"
Just a fun fact: after this conflict, Damansky became a colloquial name for far-off parts of some cities in the USSR, like the northernmost residential area in 65-kilometre long Kryvyi Rih
Also, our basic military training teacher in high school served in artillery back there. Didn't share many details though
What do you mean "your basic military training teacher in high school" ??? Did high school students get military training in the USSR? A picture of a 14 year old boy learning to clean and maintain an ak47 was painted in my head by that statement.
@@billpetrak you're mostly right - in USSR and post-USSR countries (i'm from Ukraine and finished school in 2008) there were some mandatory military classes (9-10 or 10-11 grades, I'm not sure, it depends on the school program that changed overtime. Mine were 10 and 11). That's about 15 to 17 yo students. The learning program has been changing over time and (at least after 1991) might vary from school to school. Generally, these classes were gendered (more combat-oriented for boys and medicine-oriented for girls). However, my mom who finished school in 1980 recalls having timed field-stripping an AK and shooting a .22LR rifle. Even had some kind of marksmanship badge.
In general, these classes included civil defence stuff (emergency drills in case of disasters), basic firearm training etc. In my school it was mostly writing down boring lectures, passing physical standards like long-distance running, throwing a "grenade" (basically a cast aluminum chunk) and some airgun shooting. By that time most of Ukrainian schools were getting rid of their deactivated AKs, but our had some dummy RGD-5 and F1 grenades (this time the real thing minus all the explosive). And once we had a non-obligatory trip to a military range to fire some 6 rounds per shooter from an AK. Not as nearly exciting as it may sound, to be honest. You ride a bus for an hour and wait wor another hour then shoot for a minute while the drill instructor hurries you up.
Ah, and boys would have primary pre-conscript registration (not sure what's the correct English name would be). Basically, in the 9th grade (14-15 years old) instead of some classes, you arrive at your local draft station with your classmates and pass medical examination from doctor to doctor. Given that you're wearing nothing but underpants and t-shirt and have your papers in your hands, it's quite a stressful experience with some comic relief from your pals retelling stock jokes about stuff that DEFINITELY happened here to your schoolmates a year or two older. The second time would be in 11th grade where everything would be more or less the same but if the doctors saw some symptoms of a condition that makes you unsuitable for potential military service, this time you would have to pass further examination at a hospital. I had to skip school for a couple of weeks because of this. Not that I mind. In the end, you would get a paper which says if you are going to be suitable for service when you're 18. You couldn't go to colledge without one (at least, in my time). I don't know what's the current state of this system but at least I've heard they don't make you walk around in your underwear now.
In general, all this system designed in USSR was dictated by the impending WW3 that required (at least, on paper) much everyone know to do if SHTF, and possibly as early as they are able to. The bureaucratic inertia carried this over into post-USSR countries, albeit in much more defunct way (as their armies in general). Now, with russian invasion underway, this system shows some merit to it and I hope Ukraine does its best to restore the useful and ditch the ineffective parts of this system.
@@galvanic.warlock Wow!! I had no idea military training for teens was an actual thing. Thanks a lot for the detailed answer!!
Personally, I think it would make more sense if they did it at the age of 18, because these are quite populous countries with lots of manpower. I doubt they could run out of adults to fight before the end any war. But of course I am no expert.
As for the war happening now, I pray it ends instantly. There is nothing to be gained.
@@billpetrak18 yo is the least age you can be drafted (de-facto is 20 yo currently in Ukraine though).The idea is, to put it bluntly, teach a person which end a rifle shoots from by the time they get drafted so they grasp things more quickly in the army. Plus, unlike the army or universities, school is kind of the lowest common denominator for all able citizens, so military training in schools allows for the most coverage. The problem is that since 1991 (or, more broadly, even since Afghanistan invasion) and to 2014 (or even 2022) the army service wasn't something you wanted to waste time for. Going to colledge immediately after school was one way to delay or escape the service altogether. If your colledge or university has so called "military department", you spend some time (like some hours every Saturday and a couple of weeks in the summer) to attend it and get senior lieutenant rank upon graduation. This exempts you from the military service and theoretically subjects you to military service as an officer at wartime. However, the training is far from what it takes to make an officer, and both the army and these reservists understand this. So, as far as I know, these quasi-officers aren't massively drafted in the current war yet.
Moreover, a large war used to be considered something unrealistic in Ukrainian society. Even after 2014 and up to 24 February, 2022, a lot of people didn't think russia will start a full-scale invasion.
Given all this, mandatory service and school training was considered something redundant and obsolete and the general consensus was that abolition of both was a matter of time. The history proved that wrong.
As for immediate peace, it is only acceptable if russians withdraw completely to 1991 borders. Safety, dignity and national identity of our people on currently occupied territories are to be gained and preserved. Otherwise, they face oppression, genocide and lawlessness.
@@galvanic.warlock Ok, what do you think of the Hetmanate?
When I was young, I thought the 1969 conflict was the result of fanatic Culture Revolution. But looking deeper into it, you will find it is a carefully prepared conflict with strategic design. This video said that Chinese side launched the conflict out of fear. But it is out of totally another kind fear that the US and the USSR will reach high degree of reconciliation. If this happens, China will face two superpowers, with both as its enemy. So the 1969 conflict is not about winning or losing, it’s about showing to the West that the USSR is still a huge threat and China is no longer in the Soviet controlled socialist camp. This contributed to following Sina-US reconciliations.
China starts border dispute all the time.
The 1969 was just the prologue of what they will do and are doing today. You have enemies on all borders and no allies
thorough plan of Zhou Enlai and Deng Xiaoping?
@@yuriy9701 No. Mao asked several old marshals to make the preparations.
Or, just a crazy idea, may be the reason was Russias insatiable appetite to steal other peoples lands, despite being by far largest country in the world ? Still to this day. I don't blame China for this conflict, russians were clearly at wrong.
China was not worried about facing two superpowers. Instead, Mao Zedong was particularly angry at the China policies of Soviet leaders such as Khrushchev and Brezhnev. In Mao Zedong's view, the Soviet Union treated China like several small countries in Eastern Europe, which was not feasible. Mao Zedong believed that China was a big country, not a small country in terms of area, population, or even history and culture. Mao Zedong felt humiliated by Soviet leaders. From then on, the close relationship between China and the Soviet Union broke down, and gradually there was a conflict between the two sides. That's all. Mao Zedong would not had fallen out with the Soviet Union if he feared that two superpowers would attack China at the same time. Moreover, it was impossible for the two superpowers to attack China at the same time, and they will only draw China to deal with the other. Now India is playing this trick, taking advantage of the contradiction between China and the United States to benefit from both sides, even from Russia.
During the military service of my dad (beginning of the 1980s") the red army still had strong garrisons on the border to China. The servicemen were not allowed to light fires, even in winter, to not give away the position of their glorified holes in the ground, which were their posts.
My dad was station in Mongolia and one of his fellow servicemen was stationed on the Chinese garrison before transfer and according to my dad, those had the hardest lot of military service.
They were almost feral and more prone to violent reactions due to the tense cirmumstances. The service in Mongolia on the other hand was more comfortable. More and better rations and they had actuall functioning central heating.
Cool my gramma and grandpa served there too
That's so interesting considering a person above spoke about "insane" Chinese troops from the Soviet side's perspective. I would imagine the famine years were especially hard and morbidly interesting, given that having to pay Soviet debts was listed as one of the many contributors of the famine by the Chinese.
Niga the border Russia has is more than mongolia ofc mongolias small border will be heated luxury
@@Meteorknite Mongolia has not just a small border with China. Mongolia was luxury compared to other postings, because it was outside the USSR itself.
During his time near Erdenet they had as much coffee and meat as they liked, while during his first year in Chita meat was rare and coffee was not available at all.
While the USSR had military bases in Mongolia, the official position was, that there were no soviet troops in Mongolia, only military advisors. That was the first thing the political commissar teached them. They were still part of the Transbaikal Military District.
As I said, the lack of heating on the border of the USSR and China was not because it was hard to get it up and running, but because smoke would give away the positions. If the chinese saw smoke or other indications of the positions, they could get their artillery in striking position.
And the glorified holes in the grounds were actuall holes in the ground. They had barracks, but not that close to the border, so they would not set up nice targets for the chinese and it also helped to let the enemy to avoid military positions and cut them off easily.
Even the construction soldiers tasked with upkeep of border instalations, who were not fighting forces, were stationed in said holes.
@@Meteorknite small ? Lmao
all this was general knowledge, obviously not at this level of detail, on the wrong side of the iron curtain. A classic joke from the 70s/80s in Czechoslovakia goes something like this:
TASS news report
A soviet tractor peacefully ploughing the fields on the bank of the Amur river was ambushed by Chinese military units. The tractor returned fire. After the firefight lasted for half an hour, the tractor got airborne and returned to base.
++
I don’t get it
@@joshvega5469
He's pointing out Russian reports were reaching North Korean levels of BS even back then.
@@joshvega5469 it's the fact russia would shamelessly then and now refer to a tank, helicopter and plane attack on somewhere else as 'a peaceful soviet tractor being fired on'
"Soviet military warns that if provocations continue, they will deploy VTOL hay movers in the region" - one possible punchline of this joke
My family came to know a Soviet officer who was there on the ground during this incident. During his telling of the events he recanted that the casualties on both sides were much higher than what was stated on record.
I think you meant he recalled, not recanted
My mom, who grew up on the other side of the USSR, once told me an anecdote from her childhood: she was spending her summer holidays at her grandmother's house in the village, and at night before going to bed, her grandmother would tell her to close her bedroom windows "just in case the Chinese launched gas". People were just that frightened that an NBC war would break out.
中国过于落后，没有办法发展毒气武器。而且冬天，风向是从南到北的，使用毒气只会毒杀中国人。。。。
额 那时候我们有那个工业吗 苏联制造恐慌吧
放毒气是不可能的，这个让你祖母不用担心
@@user-kq3vj9mk4cthose were 60s so both sides had stockpiles of chemical and nerve gasses
In the Damansky（zhen bao） Island conflict, a soviet T62 tank's track was destroyed and the tank was abandoned. The Chinese PLA army captured the tank. Now this tank exhibit in the Chinese Military Museum in Beijing, alongside with a Sherman tank captured during the Korean War.
The one next to the T-62 is M26 Pershing, captured in the Korean War.
@@billj5811 maybe they rearranged the position of these tanks,when I visited there,they were side by side.
@@rosalb6959 All I can say is that they really know how to do good "positioning".
really wanted to see the tank during my time in Beijing. But then covid happened and the museum was not allowing visitors in 2020
soviet engineers tried to destroy the tank but failed and thats why it was abandoned
Finally, there's an history channel that talks about this forgotten conflict... And it shows that the "enemy of my enemy is my ally" quote sometimes is not what we think...
You just have to turn the enemy into slave. With Nato in full force to bring down Russia its obvious
Now enemy of my enemy is my slave
@@Meteorknite Are U scared?
Well, what you're saying is just Russian propaganda... Like the Denaz*ification claim just to rally his people...
Leftists fighting each other is hardly surprising. Just because they are both communists does not mean they get along 😂
Why is there 3 replies that I cant see
I was stationed in West Germany in 1979, I have no idea what went on, but something happened between them, May or June I think, and we had an alert beyond anything in my 3 years there. We were told that Russia and China were fighting, and NATO was going to attack Russian in support of China. I was due to go home in a few months, and thought oh crap. It lasted for days, where a normal alert was see how long it took to get most of the tanks and APC's off the post, and then return. This one was just all leaves were cancelled, but we didn't move the vehicles out. Not saying scuttlebutt is always true, but something went on, and I have never heard anything about what happened between them. The humor to us was that poster in the barracks hall that said how we were outnumbered 13-1 in men, 7-1 in tanks, 4-1 in planes, or something along those lines, and we thought we are going to attack them?
With nuclear weapons...not Euro-based troops. But yes, humorous from the troop POV. :)
"Something that happened" was probably the Vietnamese-Sino War that broke out in 1979. Vietnam at that time was pro-soviet and had deployed the military against red khmers in Cambodia, which was a Chinese ally. China in response attacked Vietnam in 1979, and the Soviets were supporting Vietnam. During the time of that conflict, the tension in the Soviet-Chinese border was heated dramatically.
The Damansky Island battle was the first time the BTR-60PB APC encountered serious armed opposition. A Soviet Border Guard officer commandeered one of these vehicles and gunned down or ran over dozens of PLA soldiers while extricating the survivors of the Chinese ambush of 02 March '69.
The what app
Apc?
@@B727X Armoured Personnel Carrier. The abbreviation BTR is Russian for the same word.
Ran over? For real?
Dozens of PLA soldiers? Likely propaganda. The Soviets got smoked. They have plenty of evidence of their own dead but couldn't produce any evidence of casualties on the Chinese side, except estimates and unconfirmed kill reports, and this is supposedly they WON yet they can't survey the battlefield.
There was a brief mention of the clashes in the news media in the United States in 1969 but I never knew the reasons until recently. This video has been very informative.
Just to put the soviet firepower of 10.000 artillery shells on a single day into perspective that went down on the chinese on that tiny island:
In the current war between Ukraine and Russia, Ukraines entire armed forces are roughly using 10.000-20.000 shells per day....on the entire frontline involving hundreds of thousands of soldiers(the russians somewhere between 30.000 to 70.000 shells per day).
That island and the chinese positions on their side of the border were blown to the stone age. The soviets were clearly not fucking around in this conflict
Also the fact that a simple radio operator cut off the official soviet gouvernmeants call as "anti revolutionary element" is one of thouse redicilous things you couldnt script if you tried. Imagine the face palm of the soviet official after getting cut off like that :D
"Comrade, see that island? I don't want to."
@@zackaryfrancisco2795 After the artillery strikes. "You see Ivan, no one can fight for island if we destroy island altogether."
"The soviets were clearly not fucking around in this conflict" so much that in the end they gave in to Chinese demands.
Dude, the russian military history, except WW2 (where they where entirely fed and fueled by the USA for almost 3 years), has been a continuous and complete humiliation.
@@sandro9237 Vietnam win
@@danielnavarro537 Soviet army in this issue performed perfect to their doctrine. The only issue is that soldiers aren’t trained in foreign diplomacy and would probably suck at it.
Would call it a military victory but nothing else. Could have been entirely avoided if the soviets didn’t fucking ignore the chinese or found a way to circumvent Mao or his four goons.
My father's side had lived in Heilongjiang, the northernmost province of China which shared a border with the USSR. My grandfather was a political commissar with a rank of senior colonel. Although I know little about his service, my father did talk about how even when he was growing up in the 70s civilians would be trained on what to do in the event of a potential war/nuclear conflict along the border. It would be mostly remembering where the nearest shelter or bunker was and escaping to it. Rations then also sucked, with the rank and file having to deal with compressed bars of some sort of grain when a field kitchen wasn't available.
huh, i remembered the compressed rations were delicious and i'd have them as snacks as a kid, even brought some over to canada, they certainly helped with my uni exam month cramming by cutting down food prep time haha.
if I'm not wrong, one of the biggest shelters of 7381工程 is now a shopping mall in the center of Harbin
So your father served and fought for a government that murder millions of its own people by starvation and death camps? Then the whole population cried and grieved when when the demonic pos that caused it all died ? The democrats are trying the same tactics here in America but thank God Americans are not like the Chinese people and Russia or Russian people we had rather live as free men or go down hard fighting a tearagull government that God for our founding fathers and our 2nd amendment
Grandpa was criminal scum who should have been put up against a wall with a row of soldiers facing him from about 20 meters away.
I remember a scene from the 1984 film "Red Dawn" where the resistance rescues a downed American pilot and later on. As they're gathered around the campfire swapping stories.
He mentioned that not only did the Soviets nuke U.S. cities, but they also nuked China as well.
I thought that was rather odd. Now I know why they'd do that if it ever got to that point.
That movie is a bunch of crap. The US and 18 other Western nations invaded the USSR in 1919 to support the white army against the reds.
The USSR never even had the ability to invade the United States and if they would they would come from the Bering straight in the Spring.
@@danwelterweight4137 it was fictional scenario that wad made during the cold war so calm your tits !
And yes supporting the whites was a shameful act but stop pretending that Russia is a victim of imperialism considering the fact that they themselves whet doing the same shit ever since Ivan the terrible's reign .
@@missmiss8359 You shouldn't be talking about Tits like that. That is not very lady like from YO :)
Russia was a conquered nation by the Mongols, later the Golden Horde, whose ancestors are now called the Tartars.
For centuries Russia was subdued and made a vassal state by them.
For centuries Russia had to pay them HUGE quantities of money as ramsom to keep them away from raiding Russian cities and towns and taking Russian citizens as slaves.
The Tartars used to capture Russians and sell them as slaves through Crimea, through the black sea to Greeks in Constantinople and later the Ottomans.
It took Russia nearly 600 years to free itself and defeat the Tartars.
They were only really defeated during the reign of Catherine the Great.
It was during this time that Russia began to expand Eastwards through the Cossacks and act like a Western Imperialist countries.
@@danwelterweight4137
Mongols have nothing to do with volga/Crimean/Siberian tatars who ate turkic peoples who speak different forms of the kipchak languages and whom themselves where victims of the Mongol invasion even before the kivean Russ .
Your dumbass can't even realize that the conquest of Siberia and Alaska (wich are considered to be Russia's easward expansion ) started before the conquest of the Crimean khanate whom you obviously think was the only tatar khanate and and you probably don't even know that the word tatar is an umbrella term for various ethnic groups and sub ethnic groups and it's tatars not tartars you fucking charltan I don't , know why the fuck I'm I even bothering with you .
the agressive nature that shaped the tatar-russian relationship was only a natural consequence of russian expansionism in other words the russians brought on themselves and I legit don't give a fuck about the well being of the poor "peaceful" Russians.
Now take your victim blaming somewhere else maybe to people who never cracked a book about the subject and are more prone to swallowing imperial Russian propaganda/dissinformation.
@@danwelterweight4137 don't care Dan, still a kickass movie
I would be interested in a video about Mongolia during the Cold War, especially considering how it was caught between the Soviets and Chinese.
They were pro USSR
Nobody cares genghis was even worse than adolf
@@B727X relax
@@B727X Genghis Khan died in 1227 i.e. over seven centuries before the Cold War.
Mongols are Russian.
I enjoy these videos on Sino-Soviet relations, and would definitely enjoy more being made
Either way, awesome video as always, Keep up the excellent work!
Much awaited much appreciated excellent insights as always.
Great piece to end the year.
Frohes neues Jahr! Prosit!
From Vienna
Thank you many people do not know of this incident thank you for shedding light on it
I didn't realize just how tense things got on the Chinese-Soviet border. I knew they weren't tight allies after the war, but I didn't know it came so close to all-out war. Thank you for this. I would enjoy more videos on the topic in the future too!
God be with you out there everybody! ✝️ :)
oh yes, the Chinese and Soviets started fighting along their frontier in the 1950s if not earlier and never stopped. I'm not sure but I think the fighting is still going on there to this date (though not nearly at the same level of intensity as it was during the days of Brezhnev and Mao clashing).
Two heavily armed countries bordering each other is always going to cause trouble, even if it's unintentional (take for example the regular incidents along the Korean DMZ, where DPRK and ROK/US patrols regularly exchange small arms fire after misinterpreting the actions of the other side as being an invasion, leaving people killed on both sides every year.
@@jwenting there shouldn't be any fighting near the Russian-chinese border. The last border agreement was signed in 2004 which heavily favoured china.
Fun fact: The reason that China invade Vietnam is for the purpose of humiliating USSR. Before the war, USSR promise to protect Vietnam if it was attacked by China. But when China invade Vietnam anyway, USSR has its troops on the border just to sit tight.
China has always been Russia's greatest threat, not the US.
They fell out over kruschevs de stalin isation.
This is an excellent and well thought out piece. Thank you very much, and happy new year!
Never knew anything about this one, and I thought I was pretty good on my cold war history. I absolutely love your channel and your no-nonsense approach. It's so refreshing compared to the rest of YT.
“Pretty good” you mean good at the western side of history. The world is very big you will never be able to complete its whole history in your head
Married to a Russian. I can speak it too. I like to think that I have a good understanding of both sides, admittedly little about China though. And yes, I'm still learning and will never know it all.
You could appreciate how terrifying first use of Grad was.. not to mention 10k round of artillery. That is level of firepower used in Ukraine now along the whole line of contact, focused on tiny island and a river crossing/shore.
This is indeed a fascinating story, and indeed one I did not know. This is why I love this channel
This video still has that new car smell :). The Berlin Wall hadn't come down when I graduated high school (was still 2 years in the future). Here in the US no one was teaching about the Sino-Soviet split in history classes even though it had been going on for 30+ years.
Thank you guys for bringing us some of the lesser known stories and more details of the cold war over the past few years. I don't have a history degree but I do study a few times/places on my own. When I see a new video from the channel I know that I'm in store to chuck some new stuck in my knowledge buckets. Happy New Years to every and their families who are involved in the channel.
You guys might want to look into some sort of box set deal (thumb drive or download) for schools. With some kind of lesson plan and tests the subject matter is on par with The Great Courses and other educational use services. You guys have a higher entertainment value but it doesn't diminish the educational value.
Agree massively about the educational program for schools!
Schools? The point of media and common education in West is also political indoctrination to maintain US global geopolitical supremacy. Popular media and school programs would never teach these views or reveal disavantagous facts too much to the public that is not in line with US foreign policies, unless decades have passed after a conflict, or it's in higher education.
@@Trgn while I do realize some US far right politicians have stated that that the education in schools should be nationalistic, most schools are realistically not like that, and especially in more left leaning areas it’s more about how the US has messed up and could improve rather then pushing a agenda.
@@theredhunter4997 I hope that is true friend. But we are all too deep in
@@Trgn you need to take off the tin foil hat there buddy.
I love thar David always says something about the bell button that is from the episode. 👍
Wow I never knew they actually fought each other! Great channel I love your content
Love the way you do the narratation, you really seem to be a very intelligent warm hearted man, love your work keep on the hard work we will keep on following you and learn more and more about forgotten history to understand what is happening today......
This is an excellent channel... Thank you for it!!
'They are worse than de Gaulle' gave me an unexpected laugh.
fascinating how the USSR-China had such a rivalry from the 1960s-1980s
It's almost as if communism was just more imperialism, but this time wearing leftist clothing.
@@jliller wild oversimplification of a multi-pronged anti-colonial struggle.
would be interested to get your thoughts on China's and the USSR's involvement in Angola
@@BlessedAreTheCheesemakers "multi-pronged anti-colonial struggle"? Who struggling against whom?
@@jliller dozens of countries struggling against their former overlords; China itself was under the unequal treaties for example. what imperialism did the USSR show towards China?
@@BlessedAreTheCheesemakers USSR and China were fighting over their borders and competing for spheres of influence in the third world rather than working toward a common cause (communist world domination).
Awesome channel and high quality content. Please keep doing what you do
I liked the flow of this episode, very informative. Also, nice suit, looking very dapper
The significance of this conflict is it lead to the warm up of US-China relationship and the subsequent opening of China to the world. The key triggering event was the Soviets asked Richard Nixon about potential US reactions if USSR launched a "surgical nuclear attack" on China. Henry Kissinger, the former secretary of state at that time, later commented that no one expected China would become an economic competitor and a technology competitor to the US.
Now the U.S. have become the Soviet Union, China became U.S. while Russia is China, so you can see Americans spending their defense like no tomorrow to their own demise. 😁😁
@@andrewlim7751 Go back to your factory and make some iPhones idiot. Your CCP slave masters don't care about you.
是的，当时我们从美国进口了很多先进装备，包括黑鹰直升机，现在都还能用，性能的确很强悍
I was extremely surprised by this episode at this stage which is the chronology of the events of the Cold War told by you David. We were basically at the turn of the 50s/60s and a bit at the beginning of the 60s, and suddenly 1969.
Nice
This channel does not move chronologically? Why passive aggressive about it anyways?
Always love your bell button descriptions.😁
Excellent presentation, Sir!
I think this Cold War series is brilliant
my great grandfather fought for and against both the USSR (Russian) army and Chinese army. He's half Russian and half Chinese. he was deployed to the second tier behind the frontline, of the 82 division as a tank commander but later defected to the Chinese army as artillery operator. He said if war broke out and USSR never resorted to using nuclear weapons (he said very unlikely nuclear because that would poison USSR too) that war would have lasted more than 50 years. He said USSR would eventually win the war (he said better weapons and resources) but in the end the whole the land masses of both USSR and China would become one whole single country with more Chinese people living in it
Excellent episode!
Thank you very much for this Video, i always wonder
greetings from Germany, good Video as always!
the USSR had a massive nuke advantage over China, China in 1969 , the Soviets had a big nuke missle force, the Chinese tested their first IRBMs in 1969. Chinese did not have a lot of nukes , probably around 50. and they were bomber based and nuclear mines. the Chinese had a small bomber fleet, which could reach not far into the USSR while the USSR can reach all of china wiht its bombers and missles, if war broke out and turned nuclear, the Chinese would be hit very hard by Soviet nukes. I can see the collapse of the Chinese gov and china going into civil war. The Soviets would get hit but will easilly manage the destruction. Mao was just simply insane to attempt war with the USSR.
Dont underestimate the ability of humans to want revenge. It is as much likely that whatever remained after a nuclear strike of the chinese gouvernmeant/armed forces would fight this war to the last men.
Strategically bombing somebody into submission has never worked in history, usually it had the exact opposite result. And by 1969 the chinese mainland was very much under communist control and with a uniting goal of revenge after a massive nuclear strike I dont see a civil war a posiblity.
This was why Mao replied to USSR's nuclear threats: 'If you Nuke China, we will drop all our Nukes on USA and drag them into the war.'
It was hilarious LOL, USA thought they could watch this drama with pop-corn. But after Mao made the comment, they had to choice but to mend the situation.
@@hello_world704 how can mao even drop nukes on the USA, in 1969 the Chinese did not have missles to reach the USA. , drop nukes on US forces in Vietnam , maybe , and if that happened, USA would nuake the crap out of China and divide the ruins between USSR and USA. Mao is crazy.
Mao Zedong bet that the Soviet Union would never dare to attack China with nuclear weapons. If they dare not use nuclear weapons, no matter how large the nuclear weapons stockpile is, it is just a number. In fact, they did not dare to use them. The Russians did not dare to bomb China with nuclear weapons in the past, and they dare not bomb Ukraine with nuclear weapons now. Nuclear weapons are actually not that scary.
Nah, Mao wasn't insane, the decision-making class was chill. But at that time, chinese people were insane.
"worse than de Gaulle"
should become a standard insult LOL
I'd like that!
What's wrong with deGaulle?
Very interesting topic and Video
Great job! The close up is a bit funny with the green screen and glasses.
Growing up in the 80s I didn't know much about this, but I once read a book about Viktor Belenko, the Soviet pilot who defected with a MiG-25 to Japan. In the book it describes Belenko's training as a pilot and how his superiors were talking about potential conflict with China. One of them told Belenko, "Sure, the Chinese have a few nuclear warheads, but nothing to deliver them except maybe some donkeys."
DF-02's and Bombers, but that was about it for the time. Not too bad, but at least they had some options for their nascent nuke arsenal. They didn't have many nukes by then, but definitely enough to give someone a bad day. Now though, they've realistically accumulated quite a bit, although it's a state secret, one can ascertain that it's a lot more than the low-ball estimates many sources like to still give. They realistically have about 1000, due to fissile materials available, number of silos and road mobile, sub launched, and air dropped. That's still not as many as Russ1a and U S A, but could definitely wreck 2 large nations of those sizes and population distribution in a counter-value strike (instead of a counter-force, which with an arsenal of that size would be a waste).
Thanks everyone for your personal comments here !!! I am amazed at the responses ! Happy New year to all and Peace to everyone !
did you do the research for the episode?
@@ciripa
No I am a new comer to this somewhat new channel and I had no idea of its popularity, I thought it would flop , It is amazing to read responses from people around the world who have some close ties to these events ! This is now one of my favorite Utube channels !
Very interesting, thank you
I love the Sino-Soviet videos... *PLEASE* keep them going as long as possible
The maps look so good in this video
When I was a kid, I used to eat at the restaurant of a guy who was stationed in Manchuria, with the Soviet Army (Three million Soviet soldiers served in Manchuria, and that guy passed away 20 years ago now). I imagine had China gone to war with Soviet Union, the Soviet Union would have had a decent chance of success, since they were familiar with the terrain of Manchuria.
They will not win, they will only fall into the quagmire of war.
Until the endless human waves gave them quite a doozy that would have made the Vietnam war look like a cakewalk.
@@PrimericanIdol Yes, the 1979 Sino-Vietnam War was a disaster for China. Viet Nam didn't even use its main army to win, they kept their entire military in Cambodia and still defeated China.
@@PrimericanIdol the Soviets we're probably more able to soak up losses and would be way more ruthless than the UN forces who dealt with the same human wave military in korea, plus weather probably would have been better and they wouldn't have Russian air over over them like in Korea.
@@BlackHawkBallistic china's own plans doesn't call for any conventional defeat of the soviets, they knew that was near impossible at the time. what they did plan was that the entire border area would be lost and all troops(like the 1.5 million of them) would only really serve to slow the soviets down. but this would buy them time for the "real" action deep in china itself, where the soviets would face extremely long supply lines through huge areas with very hostile natives, dense mountains and urban areas. the chinese would then attrition the soviets to death. if even this failed, then the final plan to to migrate/sneak everyone possible to the soviet union. yes, they literally planned to fight the soviets from within while living out of the vast soviet woods and tundra as a last option.
in preparation, the chinese, while lacking heavy industry, did make an absolute ass ton of bullets and grades and such. this is also why plenty of chinese ammo from pre-80s could be found for sale, and rumors are there was enough granades to arm everyone in china with like 4.
finally a good video on the topic
Hello cold war team, could you please make a video about the NEP or is that too far away from the period you want to cover? Because I have heard it mentioned quite often but i never fully grasped how it worked and what consequences it had.
Obscure trivia, as a result of the fighting on Zhen Bao Island, China got its first sample of the then-leading edge Soviet tank, the T-62, which was quickly reverse engineered into the Chinese T-69.
Highly doubtful of this
@@dinkelheit88 That tank is in a museum in Beijing right now lol
@@qumit165 yea but it got submerged in a lake for an unknown amount of time...
@@dinkelheit88 so? It is not exactly like your phone; it does not have computer chips. It’s all mechanical.
@@dinkelheit88 I mean regardless, type 69 was far behind its time. But they did get the t62 and got some design solutions off it. By the time type 69 went to serive, t72 went to service.
I’m 1988 a Soviet immigrant mentioned border clashes with no firearms just knives, clubs and the sort. Serious hand to hand
And it is repeated again in 1990s when China provoked the border in Vietnam and 2020 - 2022 when Chinese provoking Indian border with only sticks and melee weapons.
That sounds like what happens now between China and India
I obviously understand why China would hate de gaulle, but so unusually as to be an insult? Why would they hate him more than say Churchill or Eisenhower? Especially with the direct comparison to hitler
De Gaulle was much more outwardly pro-imperialist than other Western leaders.
I would guess because of France colonizing SE Asia
The CCP was utilizing Pan Asian rhetoric in order to motivate people to conform to China's government. Their goal is global communism under the People's Republic or CCP. Since Russians are pretty much European, it stands to reason that inflaming colonial wounds, would be more than enough motivation for other Asian countries to join China against the USSR.
Degulle was much more aggressive in trying to preserve colonies compared to the UK or US if you look at Suez crisis, Algerian war of independence, and Vietnam
@@jack8805 You are making a mistake, De Gaulle was not in power during the Indochina war and was called to power in the middle of the Algerian war to settle the situation, and his policy (in a simplified way) was to withdraw from Algeria because it was a politically lost war.
Loved the soundtrack in this episode. Does it have a name ?
"They're worse than De Gaulle" is the worst insult among communists. A low blow even for Mao.
It shall be noted that while all the English speaking world now uses a more respectable name Beijing in reference to the Chinese capital, the Russians still use the name ‘Pekin’.
What's the problem with Pekin?
@@rafanadir6958 Simply the fact that the current Chinese government prefers it be called Beijing
@@ethanyeung6216 yes but why? There should be a reason because in my language is Pekin.
@@rafanadir6958 Look up treaty of Peking. It was an agreement between China and European powers which is also called unequal treaties. China wants to let go of century of Humiliation hence the name change.
So do Japanese people. It’s not a rare habit.
Hey this maybe odd, but could you tell me what Outro Music you use for your videos? I sounds Amazing and would like to hear the full version of the Outro.
Correction needed at 2:33. The treaty of Aigun was signed in 1858, not 1958 as the narration says.
I can think of no greater insult than being called "Worse than de Gaulle"
When can we see Rhodesia in this channel ?
Great opening line!
I've a Mandarin-speaking friend who, as young Army draftee, served in a Radio intercept unit based at Udorn RTAFB in '69.He told me about listening in to both PLA and Soviet Army radio traffic during their border clashes that year.
Actually the border problem between China and Russia was finally solved in 2005, 14 years after the collapse of Soviet Union
Yeah, they only bringing it up now to create Sino-Soviet split 2. Too bad China and Russia already move on
Little did the Amerikanskys know, how close they where to loose the title "Main Enemy" to mainland China.
We knew
I did know about this, but I only knew tiny bits and pieces of the story. I was more familiar with the Khrushchev mistranslation that really heated things up.
My Bell Button sits far to the right. Does this indicate counterrevolutionary tendencies? Should button be pushed or crushed without mercy?
Yes. Wipe it off the face of the earth.
Fun fact: The Deputy Commander of the border post on Damansky Island was Vitaly Bubenin - the first commander of the newly created Directorate ''A'' of KGB. Today known as special forces unit ''Alpha''.
Directorate ''A'' or simply known as Alpha was specialized unit to fight terrorism both abroad and at home. It was created in the midst of 1974 Munich Olympic tragedy and the rising of passenger plane hijacking.
The battle over Damansky/Zhenbao Island was briefly mentioned in season 5 of Stranger Things. Yuri Ismaylov was hailed as “the hero of Damansky” and apparently had done some notable things in that conflict. I love the little details!
Do you guys have an episode on the Vietnamese intervention in Cambodia?
Great video……can you do a video on the sino-Vietnamese war….
Worse than De Gaulle ? Kroustchev a du prendre ça comme un compliment.
Mdr bien sûr qu’il a pris ça comme un compliment
My grandfather was stabbed in the leg in a fight with a Chinese man when he served as a border guard at the border. He didn't share much about those events when I asked about his scar on his leg. He told me only in general. He said that the Chinese regularly provoked Soviet border guards and there were constant skirmishes. At the next regular violation of the borders by the Chinese, Soviet soldiers tried to detain them, but there was a scuffle. As a result, the grandfather was wounded. there were deaths, some Chinese were captured, others died.
Can somebody tell me whats the music used from 12:00
@17:18 very interesting map... dont know why those big phones exist where they do
I grew up in 80s and there was a Soviet military battalion next to our grandparents home. The soldiers were very kind and nice. There were lots of military personnel scattered around Mongolia in case of China attack. The Mongolians of my generation liked the Soviets. The Russian specialists of all professions lived in bigger cities. I would not say the relationship was colonial or vassal.
I watched a show just last night about this, good shit. the other show is called maos cold war it's really interesting
That's great! Hope for the Sino-Vietnamese War in the new video.
Great content, way to many forced ads, be warned
My father was serving in the Lanzhou military district and was sent there as back up units. So glad it did not turn into full scale war.
Back then, Soviets were a really scary force .
@@basshunterdota625 No doubt, but the Chinese infantry was no slouch either. They had a lot of training too.
@Алина For sure, Chinese strategy was luring the Soviets deeper into the country and make it "the people's war" No I don't think China had nuclear capability yet in 1969. I've watched Russian documentary on the Damansky Incident Soviet Union came very close to dropping nuclear weapon on Beijing. It was actually one of the scariest moment in modern history that few westerners know about.
@@AlinaTH-camVlogs 1950 in Korea ,China's GDP is 1.5% of US, and the result of war? US lost.
This was Some what similar to the Faulklands conflict over islands that had almost zero value to either side as VDH would say “ It was like 2 bald men fighting over a comb” !
The Sino-Soviet relationship is really a fascinating one from the history's perspective. Worth a lot of reading.
Anyone know the name of the outro song
when ussr say there red china reply were redder
Right on time when Russia and China's diplomatic relationships is at its highest or best right now
durka slupra Muhammad jihad
for now....
China and Russian leaders both practitioners of Realpolitik. Not sure what western politicians are practising...
@@MontyGumbywith Russia setting up a 7 million km^2 exclusive economic zone to Chinese companies only, I see this relationship lasting for decades to come.
@@thomaszhang3101 although how long they are equal partners is another matter entirely
From the Soviet folklore:
Мы сообщаем вам о неприятном факте,
На берегу Амура, средь родных полей,
Подвергся мирный наш, пахавший землю трактор,
Обстрелу четырёх китайских батарей.
Услышав дикий крик китайского десанта,
Наш мирный тракторист, по званию - старлей (senior lieutenant),
Ответил на огонь одним ракетным залпом:
И уничтожил шесть китайских батарей.
А после, слив соляр и запустив реактор,
И быстро допахав гречиху и овёс,
Поднялся в воздух наш советский трактор,
И полетел обратно в свой родной колхоз.
А после, в интервью нашей редакции,
Сказал завхоз колхоза (manager of the agricultural enterprise) (товарищ генерал),
Что в случае второй подобной провокации,
На поле, вместо трактора, мы выпустим комбайн.
My neighbor’s third cousin worked with an old man whose wife walked her dog with a woman whose husband knew a captain in the Red Army back in the days.
They said that they said that he said that he heard the Chinese were mad when they received their allotment of Lada automobiles from the Big Brother: substandard. No ashtray, no cigarette lighter, seats filled with straw instead of foam etc.
It doesn’t take much to piss off a Chinese and start a war.
Do the Central American Crisis next.
Everybody in the comments is either Russian or Chinese and has a story about their fathers' roles in this. I'm an American. In 1969, my mother was expecting a baby and my father was an accountant in California. Nothing really special was happening. My mom drove a T-bird.
Greatest comment here.
As the central battle in the whole affair, I can't understand that the author actually adopts the Soviet side of the story entirely, while completely disregarding the Chinese perspective.
What?
I can. Most TH-cam videos are pro America propoganda, anti China. So everything about China must be most negative. Thats why I cant understand why in China we see so many "friendly" American boomers saying "we love China". I know they are fake and wish they just go back to their own countries
Is there any evidence for Sino-Soviet espionage during this crisis? Both countries had somewhat opaque decision-making structures, did either side use spies or surveillance to try to discover the motivations of their opposites? (also Happy New Year, love the channel)
I would assume that would be difficult unless they bribed nationals
Probably. Russia has a large Asian population that could pass for Mongolian fairly easily so they can be used to spy on China.
There was plenty! The Soviets sent many trained Chinese defectors back to China for espionage purposes, China was on high alert. There were many cases of such spies being captured. One spy aroused suspicion because his papers looked too new, and he jumped a train trying to evade capture, only to be rounded up in a mass manhunt.
Great video about a period not well known in the West.
12:59 - 13:41 Man, it got me wondering wether an air raid alert has been raised XD It's such a frequent occurance here that whenever it wails in the video we cross-check the phones for notifications. Goofy people, you :)
great video but why is taiwan included in china?
The operator called him a "revisionist element". 😂 That killed me!!