It will be a 112 in the Challenger. The 108 is probably going to be an option on the Chieftain, but probably stepping up to a 122 on the air cooled models.
I'm in and out of my Indian dealer for an oil change in an hour. $200 to change the oil and to make sure maps and ride command are up to date. I think I have 6 dealerships in the state and 2 within an hour of me.
Thanks for going deep into the engines. I’ve watched a lot of videos on both because I’m buying this Spring. This is the ONLY video where I’ve seen a deep dive like you have done. Thanks again!!
There are a couple big bore upgrade kits for the Power Plus now. Multiple cam options as well, with several people making ECU flash tunes. I am original owner of my 2020 Challenger. Love almost everything about the bike. Two things I do not like are the mirrors and the grips. But I will change those eventually. Currently have Lloydz tune, delete cat and Cobra neighbor hater pipes and K&N air filter. Bike dyno tested at 111 hp and 128 torque. Thinking of cams next.
But most of those upgrades aren’t diy projects. I saw a content creator machining the bottom end on these Indians for performance upgrades, depending on the year. I know there’s performance mods out there, but it requires a lot more than a few basic tools. Indians have a lot straight from the factory, but Harley has more potential due to the aftermarket support and Screamin Eagle products
@@InfamousCreep Some of what you are saying is correct some is misleading. Yes there is a ton more aftermarket support for HD, can't argue that. So options for upgrades are more plentiful. Machining the bottom ends has noting to do with Challenger engine, the big bore kit are straight bolt on. The machining the bottom end was for the older air cooled engines the 111 if you wanted to go something like a 126 kit I believe not the Power Plus engine on the Challenger/Pursuit. And as of right now there are only 2 cam options as far as manufactures go, the Indian factory upgrade and 3 variants from Lloyd's Garage depending on standard street grind, big bore kit, or race. There is only one well known at this time big bore kit for the Challenger to take it to a 112 made by Revolution Performance. Not aware of any unique tools required to bolt these on. I do know Lloyd's was working on manufacturing some tools that would make changing the cams quicker to reduce labor time.
Indian out the box beats Harley Davidson. For a little more, the challenger will come with the e-suspension, e-shield, riding modes, etc. For a rider to get a Roadglide with the features of a Challenger, they’re going to have to invest heavily in their bike. I’m not trying to do that. If I want a ton of horse power, I’ll get me a Hayabusa. 122hp, 128fp torque is a no brainer out the box for me. But hey…to each its own. Spend $1000’s more on your Roadglide. Be like digital underground and do whatcha like with that Harley. I’ll stick with Indian. :)
What does a "better suspension" mean? Have you ridden the new HD? If not, how do you know it's suspension is better or worse? And how are you defining good or bad? Most young people think that super stiff race suspensions are "better." Perhaps they are on a well maintained racetrack, braking hard into sharp corners and what not. That may not be the better suspension for riding any distance on actual roads. Is an engine with more top end power better? Potentially, for passing quicker. I seem to be able to get around people on my 107 just fine though. As for HD being antiquated, yes pushrods have been around longer than overhead cams, but those aren't exactly new technology either. Any cheap Japanese standard bike will run circles around either of these. If you're spending $30k for a bagger because you want performance, it's your money that could be spent more efficiently. A turtle is never going to outrun a cheetah, but it gets along in the water a hell of a lot better. Baggers are bikes meant to spend the day and go places on. Judging them on how sporty they are is missing the point. What I look for is comfort, low maintenance, parts availability/cost, dealer network, and do it make me happy when I look at it. I used to own a Victory and it was a great bike, much better functionally than HDs at the time, but HD has improved their products a lot since then.
But everything you commented is what YOU value in a bagger. Part of buying a bagger is buying what you want and you pic based in that. And yes the new suspension from the 2024 isnrhe same from the 2023 CVO so thats how he knows how the bike rides. Based on reports and reviews the newer suspension is a huge upgrade but still not as good as the indian mono setup. Now all that goes out the window with the CVO ST. And you bring up jap bikes. Man most of us are 45 and up and im def not riding a crotch rocket for any distance. Basically look at it like this, you are saying because I love baggers I shouldnt be concerned with power and performance? So I guess the caddillac blk wing V series car shouldnt be made? No 96 impala or 2003 Mercury Maurader and skip the Ford Raptor and Ram TRX? Dude no matter what people buy most still want performance.
The Harley has a "dummy shock" and an adjustable in the rear. I just did the math. The setup for Indian just seems like a better setup, but I could be wrong.
I disagree. If I’m spending $30k for a motorcycle, it better perform well. Looks and space to put stuff ain’t enough. Not when we’re talking about 30,000 dollars. That’s a car payment. Not sure if you’ve ever ridden one but it’s definitely not super stiff. It’s still a bagger, it just handles better than the stock versions of its competitors. Which is never a bad thing. As far as dealer network and parts and all that goes, people have to understand, that doesn’t grow unless people buy the product. Facilities and workers aren’t free. One of the things I love about Indian is that somebody finally has put pressure on Harley to make real changes to their bikes. I’m of the opinion that if it weren’t for Indian, Harley would still be pushing the same old Road Glide and Street Glide design with a slightly larger engine, “bold new colors” and halogen turn signals with a 2-5 thousand dollar price hike every year like they’ve been doing for decades.
Challenger is closer to the Goldwing . But keep up the HD comparisons. When I was looking for a new cruises it was between the Challenger and the Goldwing.
@@CindiB_Does_America Inline 6? lol. Other than being a V twin they have very little in common. And even then the engines are different in so many ways.
I'm in the process of trying to decide which one I want, I'm leaning towards the 2024 RoadGlide but all the HD dealers around me so far are trash. They do not want to share the price they are trying to sell the bike for without basically having you wrapped deep into the "sales game". The new price point is great for what you get on the new RG if you can actually get it an MSRP price. I like the Challengers features/performance but the Road Glide dash looks so much better.
Unfortunately, it’s gonna be like that for the next 2 months. I had to wait 4 months before I could get a fair price. Try the last day of the month, maybe by then they’ll be more willing to negotiate.
Buy your Harley from LAIDLAW Harley out in Cali. They will sell with no dealer markup. There may be others but Matt Laidlaw advertises this on every video. I live in Alabama and to avoid the dealer fuckery I’d buy in Cali and have it shipped to me here.
Dude, let's be honest, I was waiting for the 24 RG for 4 months and to take one and a few days ago I saw it in person and the materials in the 26k model ship are of very poor quality. Now I'm thinking about whether to take a challenger or RG because the improvement in Indian is much better, I am at a crossroads lol
Good comparison and I agree with most of your points. I've ridden a 2023 Road Glide ST and a 2023 Challenger Dark Horse. I made a video of my Challenger test ride. For the money, I definitely prefer the Challenger. Harley did good this year though, I like the updates and think the pricing is competitive. The biggest issue for me with Indian is the dealer network. My nearest dealer is Auburn which is 3 hours away. Next closest is San Jose Spirit, about 3.5 hours. After that, it's Hollister at 4 hours (they do awesome custom paint jobs there though). Harley also has better resale value. Doesn't matter for some people, but the way I go through bikes that's a consideration. I'm still considering a Challenger as my next bike, but the dealer issue really gives me pause. Harley has done really well by me, especially Shasta Harley up here in Redding under the new ownership and Yuba City Harley (same owner). Really above and beyond customer service that gives me a ton of confidence. Do you have any experience with San Jose Spirit as a dealer? I see they are offering lifetime motor warranty now, too. Of course, this assumes you don't mess with it, but I think the PP108 makes plenty of power stock.
No doubt the dealer network in some areas is a sticking point, on the map for me my closest is and 1:45 hours away. Its something that will simply take time to build. When they had Victory they started building dealers slow then got greedy and started letting dealer license agreements out too quickly and their service started to suck and multi brand dealers that had other models on the floor were squeezed by floor space so the product line was not well represented. So Polaris has settle back in to slower growth while maintaining the quality in the dealerships. Its a fine balance in their growth model and one can argue that with Harley's longer time in the market have an improved dealer network.
Learn to change your own oil and you probably won’t need the dealer. I’m on my second Challenger and need my dealer perhaps, once a year. I haven’t ridden the 2024 RG but have ridden many of the previous models including a 23 last year. Performance and suspension is friggin light years in front of HD on the 23 and older RG. Indian for my money is a better value! Plus there are no chain driven transmissions on Indians just gears. The last automobile with a chain driven transmission was the Nash in the 1930s, well except HD!
The 2024 HD’s are nice upgrades for HD riders. They will not draw Indian riders off their bikes. I would be down grading going from my 2019 RM to a 2024 HD. Let me explain, my RM has superior suspension with its mono-air ride shock, electronic locking bags and trunk, electronic adjustable windshield, heated grips, leather heated and cooled saddle most of which HD just can’t offer regardless of price. This is not to say HD’s are not good bikes they just fall short of top amenities that Indian offers.
Almost 40,000 miles on my Challenger and never had an issue with heat unless sitting in a traffic jam for a long period. I even have the hard lowers and with the vents open there is plenty of air flow to pull the heat away.
Side by side the Challenger looks tough and built for long hauls. The HD looks cheap and wimpy . HD looks thin and stripped like it’s starving for something
The challenger outer fairing looks way better. Harley inner fairing is much more refined, and far superior.. The challenger handling is far superior Pushrod is like lawnmower technology , overhead cams fully liquid cooled, is absolutely far better than pushrod lawnmowers Now the road glide CVO ST. …….. that bike is sick. 2024. I’m sure the challenger base will come with the smart lean RDRS technology in 2025 The competition is fierce right now, and that does nothing, but make better bikes for all of us
Indian Challenger is still going to be a better bike. I must admit, however, that the 2024 Harley-Davidson Road Glide looks beautiful. More beautiful than a Challenger? Don't know - I have to see them "Live" together. I actually think you get a Challenger Elite for the price of a Harley-Davidson Road Glide ST 117 in Europe. The 2024 and 2023 Challenger elite looks amazing so... Anyway Indian's technology is well-proven, the suspension system is still superior. Harley will be plagued with childhood diseases (a couple of years) - For me, the choice is simple: Indian Challenger - is still the best the coolest bagger.
@@wrongthinker350lmao yeah ok. Yet they killing HD in sales. Check the stock prices for Polaris and HD. And then check the performance of a 2024 Elite Challenger and price then Check the same for a 2024 RG CVO...ill wait.
I have to agree with you. I've had a few Polaris machines two snowmobiles, one quad and one victory motorcycle. All of them were junk quality. They haven't changed.
If harley dealerships would pull their heads out of the hey bro club and quit just being a clothing store maybe that would matter. Plus if your bike is worth a damn you shouldn't need a dealership every 100 miles. And yes I own and like both brands . I will add Indian accessories are crazy overpriced.
@@ta-tonka1175 did you see the new prices buddy? The entry level Harley baggers are essentially the same price as the Challenger and arguably have better features.
@@urbanadventurer5how do you figure he just stated everything that comes standard on the challenger. The Harley all those options would be more money on top of the cost of the bike so no the price is not the same.
@@loyalhearted6101 Not completely true but fine. I have test ridden the Challenger and I am a Harley owner. Both bikes are great but there’s not really much of a reason to choose a Challenger over the brand with the superior dealer network, a ton more aftermarket upgrade options (like it’s not even close), better resale value, and more robust and knowledgeable community. The bikes are now extremely close in every relevant metric and that only benefits Harley and I wouldn’t trade what Harley brings to the table for an electronically adjustable windscreen, sorry.
In 2023 they wore the number one plate because they won the King of Baggers Series in 2022. Oh, and go check out the flat tracking racing in the categories they compete in.
See in my area and where I ride there is 3 indian dealerships. But every one I visit they are empty save for oil changes. The HD near me is always packed and my friend has to leave his bike everytime it needs service.
Yes there is more HD dealers and the majority of HD dealers mark the price of their bikes up. They have a high dealer prep charge. And they charge 5 to 15 dollars more per hour mechanic work. While some Indian dealers do this, it is very easy to find a MSRP Indian dealer. The HD dealer I deal with is a MSRP dealer and great people, but there is not another HD dealer within 3 hour drive that is MSRP. The main things Indian needs to work on is fit and finish. And the after market is growing, but still lags behind.
@kevingonyea I think that Harley/Indian is like comparing an Apple iPhone to Samsung galaxy. It boils down to personal preference. Both bikes have pros and cons, I prefer Harley. I also like that I can go to 4 dealerships from my house within 60 miles and more if I want to go further. There is only one Indian dealership near me, and they are small with little inventory. And not willing to make deals like I get with Harley-Davidson
Crazy you need to lower the engine in the Indian to put a cam in lol What a joke and how many different cans available? 1 or 2 When Indian changes that and redesigns the fairing, I will look at an Indian again. The 117 Has liquid cooled heads like my CVO. Which means a simple dynojet tune with a 2-1 exhaust pipe and the Harley will run with the old Indian for cheap doesn't need a cam unless you want it to beat the Indian. And the new Harley look better just my opinion. The new screen is great also got the nice bag update along with the rear end looking good as well, looks like a lot of bike for the 25,999 And I like how Harley listed the dry shipped weight then adds running weight. Indian does not say running or shipped weight if that's not running weight it a 4 lb difference.
Agreed. I was able to get so much more performance out of my 23 Lowrider with just a 2 into 1 swap and Harley tune and autotune. I love the HD autotune. It makes aftermarket pipes perform like they are factory.
I will take an overhead chain drive cam engine over a pushrod design any day of the week. Even if it takes me a little more effort to change cams. Much more efficient engine design. A 2 into one pipe and a tune on a Harley still won't run with a Challenger, its going to take more than that.
I’m curious if Indian will upgrade to a liquid cooled 116 next year. I’m glad Indian exist. If it didn’t Harley would be way slower to change.
It will be a 112 in the Challenger. The 108 is probably going to be an option on the Chieftain, but probably stepping up to a 122 on the air cooled models.
I was up in the air when I was looking to buy. What sold me on the RG was the lack of dealers and service, on the Indian.
I'm in and out of my Indian dealer for an oil change in an hour. $200 to change the oil and to make sure maps and ride command are up to date. I think I have 6 dealerships in the state and 2 within an hour of me.
Maaan me too.Almost walked away with one.We have a local dealer but it doesnt seem they will be there long.So went RG.
You're comparing the Challenger shipped weight to the Road Glide running weight. The running weight is the same for both.
Thanks for going deep into the engines. I’ve watched a lot of videos on both because I’m buying this Spring. This is the ONLY video where I’ve seen a deep dive like you have done. Thanks again!!
Couldn’t wait till Spring. Just bought a 2024 Road Glide in white onyx pearl and blacked out engine.
There are a couple big bore upgrade kits for the Power Plus now. Multiple cam options as well, with several people making ECU flash tunes. I am original owner of my 2020 Challenger. Love almost everything about the bike. Two things I do not like are the mirrors and the grips. But I will change those eventually. Currently have Lloydz tune, delete cat and Cobra neighbor hater pipes and K&N air filter. Bike dyno tested at 111 hp and 128 torque. Thinking of cams next.
But most of those upgrades aren’t diy projects. I saw a content creator machining the bottom end on these Indians for performance upgrades, depending on the year. I know there’s performance mods out there, but it requires a lot more than a few basic tools. Indians have a lot straight from the factory, but Harley has more potential due to the aftermarket support and Screamin Eagle products
@@InfamousCreep Some of what you are saying is correct some is misleading. Yes there is a ton more aftermarket support for HD, can't argue that. So options for upgrades are more plentiful. Machining the bottom ends has noting to do with Challenger engine, the big bore kit are straight bolt on. The machining the bottom end was for the older air cooled engines the 111 if you wanted to go something like a 126 kit I believe not the Power Plus engine on the Challenger/Pursuit. And as of right now there are only 2 cam options as far as manufactures go, the Indian factory upgrade and 3 variants from Lloyd's Garage depending on standard street grind, big bore kit, or race. There is only one well known at this time big bore kit for the Challenger to take it to a 112 made by Revolution Performance. Not aware of any unique tools required to bolt these on. I do know Lloyd's was working on manufacturing some tools that would make changing the cams quicker to reduce labor time.
Indian out the box beats Harley Davidson. For a little more, the challenger will come with the e-suspension, e-shield, riding modes, etc. For a rider to get a Roadglide with the features of a Challenger, they’re going to have to invest heavily in their bike. I’m not trying to do that. If I want a ton of horse power, I’ll get me a Hayabusa. 122hp, 128fp torque is a no brainer out the box for me. But hey…to each its own. Spend $1000’s more on your Roadglide. Be like digital underground and do whatcha like with that Harley. I’ll stick with Indian. :)
What does a "better suspension" mean? Have you ridden the new HD? If not, how do you know it's suspension is better or worse? And how are you defining good or bad? Most young people think that super stiff race suspensions are "better." Perhaps they are on a well maintained racetrack, braking hard into sharp corners and what not. That may not be the better suspension for riding any distance on actual roads.
Is an engine with more top end power better? Potentially, for passing quicker. I seem to be able to get around people on my 107 just fine though. As for HD being antiquated, yes pushrods have been around longer than overhead cams, but those aren't exactly new technology either. Any cheap Japanese standard bike will run circles around either of these. If you're spending $30k for a bagger because you want performance, it's your money that could be spent more efficiently. A turtle is never going to outrun a cheetah, but it gets along in the water a hell of a lot better. Baggers are bikes meant to spend the day and go places on. Judging them on how sporty they are is missing the point.
What I look for is comfort, low maintenance, parts availability/cost, dealer network, and do it make me happy when I look at it.
I used to own a Victory and it was a great bike, much better functionally than HDs at the time, but HD has improved their products a lot since then.
But everything you commented is what YOU value in a bagger. Part of buying a bagger is buying what you want and you pic based in that. And yes the new suspension from the 2024 isnrhe same from the 2023 CVO so thats how he knows how the bike rides. Based on reports and reviews the newer suspension is a huge upgrade but still not as good as the indian mono setup. Now all that goes out the window with the CVO ST. And you bring up jap bikes. Man most of us are 45 and up and im def not riding a crotch rocket for any distance. Basically look at it like this, you are saying because I love baggers I shouldnt be concerned with power and performance? So I guess the caddillac blk wing V series car shouldnt be made? No 96 impala or 2003 Mercury Maurader and skip the Ford Raptor and Ram TRX? Dude no matter what people buy most still want performance.
The Harley has a "dummy shock" and an adjustable in the rear. I just did the math. The setup for Indian just seems like a better setup, but I could be wrong.
I disagree. If I’m spending $30k for a motorcycle, it better perform well. Looks and space to put stuff ain’t enough. Not when we’re talking about 30,000 dollars. That’s a car payment.
Not sure if you’ve ever ridden one but it’s definitely not super stiff. It’s still a bagger, it just handles better than the stock versions of its competitors. Which is never a bad thing.
As far as dealer network and parts and all that goes, people have to understand, that doesn’t grow unless people buy the product. Facilities and workers aren’t free.
One of the things I love about Indian is that somebody finally has put pressure on Harley to make real changes to their bikes. I’m of the opinion that if it weren’t for Indian, Harley would still be pushing the same old Road Glide and Street Glide design with a slightly larger engine, “bold new colors” and halogen turn signals with a 2-5 thousand dollar price hike every year like they’ve been doing for decades.
Challenger is closer to the Goldwing . But keep up the HD comparisons. When I was looking for a new cruises it was between the Challenger and the Goldwing.
No it is not. Lol the Goldwing is an Inline 6 and a full fairing bike and has an automatic option.
@@CindiB_Does_America Inline 6? lol. Other than being a V twin they have very little in common. And even then the engines are different in so many ways.
I'm in the process of trying to decide which one I want, I'm leaning towards the 2024 RoadGlide but all the HD dealers around me so far are trash. They do not want to share the price they are trying to sell the bike for without basically having you wrapped deep into the "sales game". The new price point is great for what you get on the new RG if you can actually get it an MSRP price. I like the Challengers features/performance but the Road Glide dash looks so much better.
Unfortunately, it’s gonna be like that for the next 2 months. I had to wait 4 months before I could get a fair price. Try the last day of the month, maybe by then they’ll be more willing to negotiate.
Buy your Harley from LAIDLAW Harley out in Cali. They will sell with no dealer markup. There may be others but Matt Laidlaw advertises this on every video.
I live in Alabama and to avoid the dealer fuckery I’d buy in Cali and have it shipped to me here.
Dude, let's be honest, I was waiting for the 24 RG for 4 months and to take one and a few days ago I saw it in person and the materials in the 26k model ship are of very poor quality. Now I'm thinking about whether to take a challenger or RG because the improvement in Indian is much better, I am at a crossroads lol
I have driven both the power plus, mono fox, fully liquid cooled engine is what won me over.
Good comparison and I agree with most of your points. I've ridden a 2023 Road Glide ST and a 2023 Challenger Dark Horse. I made a video of my Challenger test ride. For the money, I definitely prefer the Challenger. Harley did good this year though, I like the updates and think the pricing is competitive.
The biggest issue for me with Indian is the dealer network. My nearest dealer is Auburn which is 3 hours away. Next closest is San Jose Spirit, about 3.5 hours. After that, it's Hollister at 4 hours (they do awesome custom paint jobs there though). Harley also has better resale value. Doesn't matter for some people, but the way I go through bikes that's a consideration.
I'm still considering a Challenger as my next bike, but the dealer issue really gives me pause. Harley has done really well by me, especially Shasta Harley up here in Redding under the new ownership and Yuba City Harley (same owner). Really above and beyond customer service that gives me a ton of confidence.
Do you have any experience with San Jose Spirit as a dealer? I see they are offering lifetime motor warranty now, too. Of course, this assumes you don't mess with it, but I think the PP108 makes plenty of power stock.
No doubt the dealer network in some areas is a sticking point, on the map for me my closest is and 1:45 hours away. Its something that will simply take time to build. When they had Victory they started building dealers slow then got greedy and started letting dealer license agreements out too quickly and their service started to suck and multi brand dealers that had other models on the floor were squeezed by floor space so the product line was not well represented. So Polaris has settle back in to slower growth while maintaining the quality in the dealerships. Its a fine balance in their growth model and one can argue that with Harley's longer time in the market have an improved dealer network.
Learn to change your own oil and you probably won’t need the dealer. I’m on my second Challenger and need my dealer perhaps, once a year. I haven’t ridden the 2024 RG but have ridden many of the previous models including a 23 last year. Performance and suspension is friggin light years in front of HD on the 23 and older RG. Indian for my money is a better value!
Plus there are no chain driven transmissions on Indians just gears. The last automobile with a chain driven transmission was the Nash in the 1930s, well except HD!
The 2024 HD’s are nice upgrades for HD riders. They will not draw Indian riders off their bikes. I would be down grading going from my 2019 RM to a 2024 HD. Let me explain, my RM has superior suspension with its mono-air ride shock, electronic locking bags and trunk, electronic adjustable windshield, heated grips, leather heated and cooled saddle most of which HD just can’t offer regardless of price. This is not to say HD’s are not good bikes they just fall short of top amenities that Indian offers.
Indian is water cooled but emits a lot of heat to the driver. Bmw rt boxter motor never had a problem with heat.
I wasn’t aware, I’ve test ridden it a few times. Maybe I’m just used to the hot EVO 🤷
Almost 40,000 miles on my Challenger and never had an issue with heat unless sitting in a traffic jam for a long period. I even have the hard lowers and with the vents open there is plenty of air flow to pull the heat away.
Challenger does not run hot. I know because I actually have one and I never feel heat from the engine
I wish Indian had put that headlight on the Challenger. I love the RG, and prefer the older fairing, but I'll never buy another motorcycle with an M8.
Side by side the Challenger looks tough and built for long hauls. The HD looks cheap and wimpy . HD looks thin and stripped like it’s starving for something
I guess everyone has different tastes because I think the Indian looks cheap, even the motor looks plastic
The challenger outer fairing looks way better. Harley inner fairing is much more refined, and far superior..
The challenger handling is far superior
Pushrod is like lawnmower technology , overhead cams fully liquid cooled, is absolutely far better than pushrod lawnmowers
Now the road glide CVO ST. …….. that bike is sick.
2024. I’m sure the challenger base will come with the smart lean RDRS technology in 2025
The competition is fierce right now, and that does nothing, but make better bikes for all of us
I bought the 24 Road Glide and sold my 23 FXLRS ....I love my new bike!
Congrats, wish the wife would allow me to get a 2024 RG 🥲
Indian Challenger is still going to be a better bike. I must admit, however, that the 2024 Harley-Davidson Road Glide looks beautiful. More beautiful than a Challenger? Don't know - I have to see them "Live" together. I actually think you get a Challenger Elite for the price of a Harley-Davidson Road Glide ST 117 in Europe. The 2024 and 2023 Challenger elite looks amazing so... Anyway Indian's technology is well-proven, the suspension system is still superior. Harley will be plagued with childhood diseases (a couple of years) - For me, the choice is simple: Indian Challenger - is still the best the coolest bagger.
I hate to break it to you but Polaris is absolute garbage.
I hate to break it to you but Polaris is absolute garbage.
@@wrongthinker350lmao yeah ok. Yet they killing HD in sales. Check the stock prices for Polaris and HD. And then check the performance of a 2024 Elite Challenger and price then Check the same for a 2024 RG CVO...ill wait.
@@wrongthinker350 I think you are wrong. You are a Wrongthinker aren't you?
@@ericperry72When it comes to pure numbers and the market shares in the US...HD sells more Bikes than Indian...
Its a lot easier adding performance than changing looks
Oddly enough there are more European motorcycle dealers than Indian dealers in the Bay Area.
HD looks like a Euro bike trying to be a heavyweight bagger as the Challenger is. HD is out of its league being a light heavyweight
The new Fairing looks like the Challenger
It does, but I prefer the larger light on the new Road Glide.
Indian is nice and all but it will never be a Harley. I’ll give Indian a great review but I would choose Harley every time.
Both r beautiful bikes but I’d go for the INDIAN. Looks, modern engineering, comfort.
Harley is just better,hands down 👊🏿💯
I have to agree with you. I've had a few Polaris machines two snowmobiles, one quad and one victory motorcycle. All of them were junk quality. They haven't changed.
If harley dealerships would pull their heads out of the hey bro club and quit just being a clothing store maybe that would matter. Plus if your bike is worth a damn you shouldn't need a dealership every 100 miles. And yes I own and like both brands . I will add Indian accessories are crazy overpriced.
True, I have like 6 dealers within 70 miles 😅
The short answer is yes. I like both, but what’s the real benefit of buying a Challenger now?
Price. Standard features versus options and not even available options. Adjustable windscreen, electronic adjustable rear suspension.
@@ta-tonka1175 did you see the new prices buddy? The entry level Harley baggers are essentially the same price as the Challenger and arguably have better features.
@@urbanadventurer5how do you figure he just stated everything that comes standard on the challenger. The Harley all those options would be more money on top of the cost of the bike so no the price is not the same.
@@ta-tonka1175adjustable windshield, lmfao that’s the last thing that would sell me on a bike
@@loyalhearted6101 Not completely true but fine. I have test ridden the Challenger and I am a Harley owner. Both bikes are great but there’s not really much of a reason to choose a Challenger over the brand with the superior dealer network, a ton more aftermarket upgrade options (like it’s not even close), better resale value, and more robust and knowledgeable community. The bikes are now extremely close in every relevant metric and that only benefits Harley and I wouldn’t trade what Harley brings to the table for an electronically adjustable windscreen, sorry.
Indian all day
It sure is UGLY like the Challenger.....I'll keep my modified 2013 RG thank you
Since when was Indian ever on the podium?
In 2023 they wore the number one plate because they won the King of Baggers Series in 2022. Oh, and go check out the flat tracking racing in the categories they compete in.
Harley has way more dealerships.
See in my area and where I ride there is 3 indian dealerships. But every one I visit they are empty save for oil changes. The HD near me is always packed and my friend has to leave his bike everytime it needs service.
I'm in and out of my Indian dealership within an hour for an oil change. $200 and I'm back on the road.
How does this translate to which bike is better?
Yes there is more HD dealers and the majority of HD dealers mark the price of their bikes up. They have a high dealer prep charge. And they charge 5 to 15 dollars more per hour mechanic work. While some Indian dealers do this, it is very easy to find a MSRP Indian dealer. The HD dealer I deal with is a MSRP dealer and great people, but there is not another HD dealer within 3 hour drive that is MSRP. The main things Indian needs to work on is fit and finish. And the after market is growing, but still lags behind.
@kevingonyea I think that Harley/Indian is like comparing an Apple iPhone to Samsung galaxy. It boils down to personal preference. Both bikes have pros and cons, I prefer Harley. I also like that I can go to 4 dealerships from my house within 60 miles and more if I want to go further. There is only one Indian dealership near me, and they are small with little inventory. And not willing to make deals like I get with Harley-Davidson
Crazy you need to lower the engine in the Indian to put a cam in lol
What a joke and how many different cans available? 1 or 2
When Indian changes that and redesigns the fairing, I will look at an Indian again.
The 117 Has liquid cooled heads like my CVO. Which means a simple dynojet tune with a 2-1 exhaust pipe and the Harley will run with the old Indian for cheap doesn't need a cam unless you want it to beat the Indian.
And the new Harley look better just my opinion. The new screen is great also got the nice bag update along with the rear end looking good as well, looks like a lot of bike for the 25,999
And I like how Harley listed the dry shipped weight then adds running weight.
Indian does not say running or shipped weight if that's not running weight it a 4 lb difference.
Agreed. I was able to get so much more performance out of my 23 Lowrider with just a 2 into 1 swap and Harley tune and autotune. I love the HD autotune. It makes aftermarket pipes perform like they are factory.
@@dgross2009your HD auto tune is EPA compliant. It’s your pipes not the Hd auto tune lol
I will take an overhead chain drive cam engine over a pushrod design any day of the week. Even if it takes me a little more effort to change cams. Much more efficient engine design. A 2 into one pipe and a tune on a Harley still won't run with a Challenger, its going to take more than that.