Motorcycles That Changed History | HSLS S07E10
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
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In this episode of Highside/Lowside, Zack & Spurg welcome back Lance "The Silver Fox" Oliver to chat about models that changed motorcycling history!
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Intro - 0:00
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Intro - 7:04
Round 1 - 12:10
Round 2 - 48:57
Rev Trivia - 1:35:42
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ZZZ 0
How can we get Gen Z onto motorbikes?
Highside Lowside crew, and Revzilla Team, thank you for subjecting yourselves to the war zone that is the TH-cam comment section in order to bring more quality motorcycle content to the masses! You always set a humorous and welcoming example and I’m glad we have you in our community!
I’m surprised you didn’t say the Honda CB750 four. Father of the modern super bike. First inline 4 cylinder.
The myth, the man, the legend! Lance ! Always my favorite.
Happy Birthday Lance!
Honda Hawk GT 650 from 1988 was my first sporting V twin, leading to my SV 650, to my XB9SX Buell. Those great handling naked bikes led to 30 years of crazy fun.
Thank goodness Lance got to do another pod cast I like that guy!!
Poor management not unions destroyed the British motorcycle industry, we are still suffering the incompetence of the management classes here in the uk.
….. and Thatcher destroyed unions
Absolutely. Case in point is the tragic baby deaths..
English industry.... British empire was when the English went places and stole everything. 😊
Came here to say the exact same thing. I think you can argue that while Turner made Triumph with the first Street Triple, he started the mismanagement that led to the death of the company.
They went from record sales in one year to bankruptcy within a couple years after that. Short sighted, money grubbing, unaccountable management killed Triumph.
I love ya Spurge but you’re falling for some very biased history that’s been written by stuffy old British dudes who are aligned culturally with that management class.
The people who built the bikes were always the heroes of the story, not the suits who extracted every penny they could from them with no thought towards what they would need to do even a year later.
Objectively wrong, you're clearly letting your bias get the best of you.
Say hypothetically KTM unionized: they can no longer manufacture parts in Asia and an (already expensive) $12,000 motorcycle becomes a $20,000 motorcycle overnight.
Do you want to pay $20k for a ZX6R? That's not far off where Kawasaki would be if they stopped building shocks in Chinese factories.
While poor management may have contributed, it is not nearly as responsible as unions driving prices into unsustainable territory.
I'm 60 and the Honda 50 Super cub was the first motorcycle I ever tore down the road on as did most of my friends, it was a blast.
Interesting point on W650. It was pretty successful in Japan, where everyone remembers Kawasaki/Meguro W1 (which Lance was referring to.) In fact, W1 is one of the legendary bikes in Japan. It probably did kick off the retro craze in Japan, which may have influenced the business model of brought back Brits, which eventually made its way in U.S..(just thinking)
Enough so that it went on to get a refresh as a W 800 and then it’s already on his second generation of W800 that’s still available to this day globally
One That I feel never gets credit is the mid eighties Kawaskai GPZ900RR from Top Gun. For a lot of GenX it was the bike that really piqued our interest in sportbikes. And the fact that category boomed the proceeding years after 1986 I feel isnt a coincidence.
absolutely
This is an intensely interesting episode of HSLS, and a trip down memory lane. Back in 1971, my buddies all rode Triumphs and so I wanted a Sportster. However, I couldn't come close to affording one, and so I bought a much less expensive, brand new Honda CB750K1 and (literally) never looked back.
Zack made my day I bought a 2015 yellow fz09, it was a left over in 2017 brand new out the door $6100. I love riding it every day, it has become my bonneville Spurge.
Fantastic, always great when Lance is on the show! Ah, so that's why Spurge isn't in his usual spot. Happy Birthday Lance! Best wishes for many and more years to come! I definitely see what Lance means. I was looking at getting a W800 a few years back and remember thinking "why not just get the O.G. Triumph?" I ended up not getting either but that's beside the point. It comes down to do you want an original or a copy? Rotax also produces a 1330 triple for the Can Am Spyders. Now there's a whole nother podcast for ya, motorcycles with which Lance has personal involvement! What's the saying, a bone stock 883 is the rarest bike on Earth lol! I suspect we would not have the Suzuki SV650 without the Ducati Monster. I hope they follow through with a second episode on this subject but I can not believe no one mentioned the Vincent Black Shadow. The engine sound guessing game is Revzilla's Mandatory Fun Time! Sounds small and dirt bikey but other than that no idea, and I go 0 for 10. Producer Chase produced the sound clip because that's was he does he produces lol! Enjoy the ride home Lance as I like to say blue skies and green lights! You guys are doing a great job, keep it up! See you guys in 2 weeks!
Suzuki X-6 Hustler. A 250 that could put the run on many bigger bikes. Even had a 6-speed
My pal bought an X6 Hustler in the late 1960s when we were still teenagers. The X6 absolutely blew the doors off my Honda CL160. But I rode the CL160 from Wisconsin to California then to the Eastern Seaboard then back to Wisconsin -- 6,000 miles and I camped out the whole trip.😅 The X6 self destructed.😂
The W650 was off kawasakis first bike the W1. So it was a heritage bike that started the retro explosion.
Well, Lance, I am not even a year ahead of you turning 64 in a couple more months. Happy Birthday and keep riding.
Thanks. I'm doing my best on the "keep riding" part.
@@LanceOliver It does get more challenging each year. My K1200LT seems to get about 20 lbs heavier every year. 😁
Before the retro/nostalgia W650 and the GB500s, were the Yamaha SR500 and SRX600, both attempts at channeling classic sporting British singles like the Manx Norton and Velocette Thruxton. I think I remember Zack’s Dad used to race an SR500 back in the day.
There's also the Suzuki Savage, or LS 650, released in 95, as an 86 model, which qas another Brit bike clone. Most advanced thobg on it was an electronic ignition system. They were still carburated in 2019, when the model was discontinued.
Happy Birthday Lance. Im a few years older. Good to see uou on the pod.
Thank you guys so much for the effort you put into these. i hope you continue to do them, and dont ever feel like its a laborious task. the energy and enthusiasm you give carries the value of the information you present.
Great you mentioned the Monster 900, a true classic
Absolutely love this topic.
I'd love to see an episode on the best moto GP engines and some history behind them. I'm not the biggest fan of moto gp.
But the bikes/ motors are extremely fascinating to me.
Look up Petronas FP1 😀
@@WilliamAndrewPhilipBodie Mother of God, that's killer
@@westondifranco9313 They found (i think) 120 street legel version of them. brand new in the UK. there is alot of history there. and WoW what a bike. came out 2003. have fun look them up on YT 😀
I learn so much from these podcasts. I've only had 4 motorcycles in my life so I feel unqualified to really chime in. That being said my first 2 bikes feel historical looking back now. '72 Kawasaki 100 G5 and '80 Yamaha 650 xs special II. Loved them both. And hey I'm getting better at the engine sound game! Keep up the great work.
I love the GB-500, but was a poor young person and not able to afford it. Another model I lusted after was the Yamaha SRX-6. But now I was able to find and purchase a Husqvarna Vitpilen 701. I’m a fan of the street thumpers.
First off, shout out to Lance for visiting Jarabacoa, DR. Second, I can assure you it not a fad, when I was growing up there in the 80s-90s the Honda cub was the vehicle of choice throughout the island bc its dirt cheap and reliable transportation. Even today while there are more and more cars on the road the Honda cub is still ubiquitious.
‘22 was the last production year for the Evo Iron 883 and Sportster Forty-Eight. You *might* still be able to find new ones still on showrooms, but ‘22 was the year the air cooled Evo died.
Side note: A ‘14 Sportster 48 was the first bike I ever owned. I bought it brand new right after I learned to ride. I traded it in 2 years later for a Softail Slim. But I always missed the 48, so I bought a brand new one in ‘21.
HI Guys, love the podcast....FYI Eric Buell was a designer for Harley Davidson for many years before starting Buell Motorcycles. Most notably he designed the FXR series which is still the best handling big twin for a LONG time..
PFAS is also found in that hi-vis reflective materials. So almost all construction work wear too
Kawasaki introduced, I think it was called, the W1 650 in the 1960s which was more or less a clone of the BSA A10 built under licence.
This episode's engine guessing game was BRILLIANT!!! Thanks for letting us in on how the new Triumph motocross bike sounds!!!! Best regards from Brasilia, Brazil.
GS. That bike and LWR did more for the motorcycling INDUSTRY than most any other bikes.
I'm not going to watch this until I know they said something about the Bandit 600/1200 lol
Disappointment ensues!
bruce56
BMW Flying Brick K100. Before you kick me to the kerb, please hear me out. Modern motorcycles have liquid cooling, ABS, fuel injection and traction control. The BMW was first (ABS & traction control) or at the leading edge for water cooling (Scott Squirrel or Suzuki Water Buffalo??) or fuel injection (1978 Kawasaki ??), but it was the first to bring all four together. Also, GS BMW for ushering in the the ADV
Vincent HRD Black Shadow.. also the Brough Superior
It's always a good news when forever chemicals (like PFAS) are banned.
I am always amazed at how many people have zero knowledge with how many different products contain these chemicals.
I remember the Kawasaki 650's styled like Triumphs from the sixties and early seventies. Always wanted one, and now I am going to get a W800, just because of those memories. A Kawa 650 with the high scrambler pipes is the first bike I ever crashed. The owner was not impressed.
You are gonna love it. I have put on 1700 in the past 4 months on my ‘21 W800.
Motorcycles that changed history.. The Bonneville and Honda Dream seem legit. I would add the 1969-70 Honda CB750, the 1949 Harley-Davidson FLH, the 1975 Honda Goldwing, the 1985-1987 Suzuki GSXR750.
I was surprised how Malcolm Smith was actually a part of the greater motorcycling community. His interview saying 'the kids are sucking on the tailpipes' was quite telling on the problems he was facing in his dealerships.
How does this not have so much more views??
Thanks for this episode.
I'm 62. First m/c I ever had was a Honda QA 50 in 1970, although I enjoyed riding around with my dad on his Honda Superhawk and later his CB750 in the '60s. Still riding today off and on road.
It's a good morning. Insomnia kept me up all night so hoping this episode will help me fall back asleep. That's not a dis on the show. More of a comfort thing. Love the show guys.
Hey guys the EL 1936 knuckle head was over head valve
Triumph parallel Twins were hard tail until the early ‘50’s. Their first rear suspension was a sprung hub rear wheel in a rigid frame. Next came the swing arm in the mid ‘50’s. UJM was the term referring to air cooled transverse four cylinder standard rider triangle no fairing general purpose motorcycles.
I'm old enough to remember the mid 60's Kawasaki W650 Commander; an updated and improved pre-unit BSA 650. There was no Honda 450 or 750, no Yamaha 650, Suzuki 500 Titan. It really was the beginning of Japanese big bikes.
Pretty darn good!
Funny about the Honda cub I was 20 in 1980 certified motorcycle mechanic and worked for gables Honda in coral gables florida as an entry level tech service writer and then to building bikes I remember Assembling those honda cubs and the little fifty she like moped qt 50s I believe lots of parts as 3 came to a crate what a job. Wow Thanks for the memories you guys 👍. Scott m.
Obviously, the CB750 has to make it to one of these lists at some point.
You can also ad the GL1000, and CB 900 to a list like that.
I wanna stress that, I personally, find the two of you are doing an exceptionally good job as explaining jargon and basics during the podcast. That does not only include what you explain, but also that the way you do it is not intrusive or interrupting the flow of the episodes.
I have my license for 2 years now and had no contact with motorcycle culture before. Many things you explain I already learned, but then and again there is something I don't know and you quite reliably stop and explain. So thanks, I do not at all feel like you are creating an echo chamber.
The Honda Cub didn't have a slushbox transmission. "Slushboxes" are torque converters that don't have a mechanical connection between the motor and transmission, thus feeling "slushy"
I agree, the term "slush-box" is specifically reserved for torque-converter equipped transmissions (and even more specifically to torque-converters without a lock-up clutch). The Honda SuperCub (aka "50") had a centrifugal clutch - which does lock-up beyond a certain RPM (thereby acting like any other mechanical clutch with regards to transmission losses).
To add to Spurg's W650 suggestion, Kawasaki continued to produce it for other markets until today, becoming the W800 in 2011. The brought it back to the US market in the 2019-2020 timeframe.
Is Spurg's entire motorcycle range only the modern KTM line and that one Bonneville?
Sounds like it. But Zach sounds like he's mainly just had that KTM 990. These guys get to ride so many test bikes, they probably don't buy many personal bikes.
I have the Yamaha competition to the Cub. A 1966 Yamaha U5. 2cycle 50cc. Even when I got another bike, I would use the U5 to deliver lunch to my father in the field because of no clutch.
Guys awesome episode, got great collection but still lot of important bikes, like BMW boxer R models, Tomos brand that got Balkan countries mobile, ...😂😂😂
Can't wait for the next episode on historically important bikes, keep up with great work and greetings from sLOVEnia
In this episode you touched on the Yamaha FZ09 / MT09, that it's a great engine in a crappy chassis. And that there was a gentleman who had a kit available to remedy all the weak parts of the FZ09, but according to Spurg it made the bike even worse!
As the owner of a 2020 MT09, I agree that the engine is great, but the stock suspension was terrible. I knew this before I bought it, so I had already planned upgrades with my shop. After having good suspension installed the bike rides beautifully!
So my suggestion is, can you do an episode of HSLS on modifications to bikes, which are worthwhile, which make the bike worse, etc., etc., etc.
A few notes:
Kawasaki built the W under license from BSA. It was the largest (and quickest) Japanese motorcycle at the time and was introduced in 1966 in North America.
Speaking of North America, the bike-- and its descendants, the 1999 W650 and 2019 W800 (introduced in Cafe Racer trim) -- were not sales successes here, probably due to their comparative high price tags. The '19 W800 Cafe was MSRP'd around $9,600 (and it made only 48hp to meet Class A License requirements in the UK -- a sure sales killer here in the land of abundance).
Speaking of the UK (and Europe), the Kawasaki W Series has had a fair amount of success over there. It's been available in different CC configurations (400, 175 -- in Japan) for more years than they have been offered in North America.
Speaking of the Honda G500 (weren't we?), who says it wasn't a success? Maybe not in sales, but Honda has never been shy about testing all the waters and is quick to green light bikes that have a probable limited run at best. That's good for us enthusiasts. Oh, and it also sold for a premium (around $4,200) back in 1989-90. (That's well over $10 grand today -- for a thumper).
I just started selling motorcycles in 89'. The Transalp, GB500, CB-1, RC30. It was an amazing Era for Honda. Great memories. We had to discount the RC30 $3500.00 to sell them. It's hard to believe in hindsight.
I think that the RC31 Honda Hawk GT (NT650) and the Yamaha SRX before that were actually the first modern naked bikes. The Honda was much more modern though with it's twin spar aluminum frame, and Pro-Link single aided swing arm suspension from the RC30 VFR750R. These bikes were out of production by the time the Monster and Speed Triple came out. I would love to see a Daily Rider of the Honda please?!
Enjoyed the list. The next one needs to include the Boxer - airhead bikes. Which lead to the Gs- Adventure bikes
ha! i guessed it was the new triumph after the england hint. i've been FROTHING over this bike
Speaking on Triumph triples the first was actually the Trident in 1968. Predates the Speed Triple by almost 30 years so they definitely have a long history of triples then did the Thunderbird 900 for a triple cruiser!
im glad u mentioned VFR
/s
The 38 triumph had what was called a sprung hub on the rear wheel to act as a little suspension
The Honda c90 changed motorcycle history without even being noticed!
Spurge, come on the GB500? The SR500 was the real seed of the retro trend. The GB500 and SRX600 were the second wave leading to the third wave Kawasaki W650 and on to the current bikes.
Here’s my list of bikes that were not just significant or unique when they launched, or popular during their few years in production, but bikes that had a lasting effect, and influence on what we ride today include: 1-Kawasaki takes the top three spots on my list because since practically creating the superbike genre in 1977 with the KZ1000, they’ve left the competition playing catch up at every step. 2-In the 1985 they not only solidified their position as leaders in performance, Maverick’s Ninja ZX900 in Top Gun brought attention to the brand and shined a spotlight on motorcycling in a way not done since Easyriders. 3-Then, when power production at the highest level of superbikes seemed to have reached a plateau, it was once again Kawasaki who leap frogged the competition seemingly out of nowhere with the H2/H2R in 2015, and again with a starring role beneath Tom Cruise in Top Gun. 4-Evolution of Harley’s 1936 EL has influenced their lineup throughout the years, with style and design elements still evident on their most contemporary bikes, from Sportsters to Street Glides. There clearly are many more influential bikes, but those are just the most prominent to me.
So many to choose from!
CB750, the first of what would become the UJM
H1 First major shot by Kawasaki for the street performance crown
Z1 Firmly planted the performance flag and helped to implant the UJM as more than just a pattern.
TZ 350 then TZ 700. Proved that smaller and lighter could be better.
Goldwing broke out of the UJM mold and evolved into a category of it's own
GS, started its' own class.
Old Blue. The Ducati piloted by Cook Neilson to Daytona 200 victory in 1977. With hats off to Phil Schilling and his tuning/building talents. Really put Ducati on the map in the US.
And maybe some history of the people who helped some of them become famous? The TZ and Kenny Roberts along with Kel Carruthers. Kawasaki, Erv Kanemoto and Gary Nixon. Could be fun!
Yeah, didn’t listen to the whole episode, but was there mention of the revolutionary CB750?
Zak's explanation of sidevalve vs. OHV left something to be desired, 😂😂😂 but he won me back with his assessment of the gen 1 fz-09.
He knew what he was talking about just brain farted on the delivery 😅
There's load of bikes to choose from and of course everyone has their own opinion. Personally, I'd have the Vincent Black Shadow top of my the list, the worlds fastest bike at that time (125mph) or the Brough Superior SS100, considered to be the first ever superbike. With notable mentions Kawasaki Z1, Ducati 916 or even the simplistic Royal Enfield Bullet
You ppl forgot the gpz 900r, the template for all modern 4 cylinder bikes afterwards. With the exception of v4 engines.
If the W650 was needed in order to have the W800 then it did begin something cool.
My 30+ year old Aerostich Roadcrafter riding suit is full of PFAS. And if it wasn’t it would never have worked so well for so long.
You could argue that the original Triumph Trident from the Bloor era was in essence a Retro, but their first actual retro motorcycle for the Hinckley brand would have been the Triumph Thunderbird from 1996'ish which pre-dates the W650 by three years.
If natural alternatives to PFAS-containing materials can be used, let's think of others and other things than just ourselves and opt for a more friendly option. There are ways to achieve goals.
Eric Buell worked for Harley Davidson before going on his own with the Buell company. While at HD he was involved with R and D, and wanted to bring the company into the future. But, as we all know, that's not the brand. So, he left to build the bikes he wanted to build.
The Sportster is iconic, it was Harleys attempt to catch up with the rest of the world.
Oh yes! A walk down memory lane!
with regards to Japanese motorcycles around the 1950s , you also have to remember people were still very raw about the Japanese treatment of allied soldiers during ww2, so selling Japanese motorcycles was incredibly difficult in western countries and to compete they had to be leaps and bounds better than the competition to stand a chance of selling.
13:02 Monster in My Pocket!!
Great sir 🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤
My opinion as a 57 year old is the 1990s brought us the most improvement of motorcycles. What happens is insurance companies made it hard to afford for young people to purchase. Then the Japanese manufactures go back to old technologies mixed with a good engine. Like a reset to lower prices. GS and GSA led us to Adventure bikes 25 years ago. Overweight but fun and now we see so many lighter bikes.
Thank goodness Zack mentioned the controversy surrounding the Harley-centric rules of racing. You cannot wax eloquent on the remarkable success of Harley racing without the asterisk.
Remember also that it was the people at Cagiva = MV Agusta who made all the decisions and designs of the Ducati Monster, as they owned Ducati at the time. And Ducati was NOT a separate entity which they only owned, the people of MV Agusta and their CRC (Cagiva Research Center) literally designed everything at that time.
Was the Monster the first naked to market? The Suzuki Bandit came out in 1989, Kawasaki had the ZR-400D Xanthus in 1992, and Honda produced the CBR-400F in 1984! The Monster was the first naked to become popular I believe.
You left out BMW GS? Now when all the bug brands are trying to sell big enduros I think tou should have mentioned it.
The Honda 50 scooterette was also the first bike I ever rode. 10 years old in 1970 riding around a field. They were £5 each by then for an MOT failure. By the time I was 11 we had learned how to do a wheelie on them by kicking it into gear. 😂😂
Lance: My personal opinion is... Zach: Yeah, that's great. So how does a twin work again?... Zach: that's great. So how many fish can I put into a 1 cubic foot aquari...spurge: I once caught a fish on a VFR. Lance: Amazing, but can we talk about bikes plea Zach: I once owned a goldfish. He was in a bowl.
I wonder how much the Ducati Monster was inspired by the 1989 Suzuki GSF400 and 1988 Honda 650 Hawk?
No mention of the prettiest bike ever that influenced how sport bikes look today: Ducati 916.
Lance has 6 months on me. I had a 1976 Yamaha RD-400 which I thought handled well and was light and fast.. I also have a 1984 Yamaha RZ-350
It's basically what the Dark Waters movie is based on. Well worth watching!
Lance Oliver the motorcycle history himself
5:51 what would happen is that the helmet you have now is legally fine, but they would change how the helmets made after that law passes, as these laws arent consumer based. so when you say "your helmet" i take it you mean your preference of helmet and your choices for future purchases.
Welllllcommmme ladies annnnnd gentlemennnnn to Lowww Side Highhhhh Side .... let's. Get. Ready. To. RAMMMBLE!
Just kidding gentlepeople. Always stellar.
31:11 Zack, you're dead right about the time between the original and the new retro offerings. It's the same with cars - look at how Chrysler started offering new muscle cars, styled after the originals, even brought back some of the "Grabber" paint colours of the late '60s and early '70s...because the people who remember those things as kids but could never afford one for themselves are the market for the retro offerings of today. That said, I shudder to think what retro designs will show up once the market moves to the next generation - people who grew up with '80s malaise-era cars, 🤢🤮
Nope, Spurgeon, not w650, but neo-Triumph Thunderbird of 1995. Then came the w650. Then came the Bonnie.
There is an Anime called Super Cub, highly recommended for a nostalgia hit
I’m surprised bmw boxers or the Ducati 125 Desmo weren’t included
The Harley knucklehead had overhead value's in 1936 and I think other bikes might of had them as well so the speed twin didn't bring that in.
My 1st bike was a 2002 Harley Vrod I bought in 2005 from a fella in TX with 7000 miles on it. 19 years later it has 143,000 miles on it and still in my garage next to others. Did it change things? Maybe…. History? Perhaps HD history….
Not only Hondas GB500 had this fate of being a decade too early. Moto Guzzi did the same with the 1000S. And the 1000S was a real classic, still using contact breaker points and simple slider carbs (in the 1990s !!!).