So the beehive onager is its own unit, like it only fires beehives? Why didn't they just make it a type of ammo for the regular onager? The way they did it just seems so stupid. "Lucius, get some stones for the onager!" "Sorry, imperator, this is a beehive onager, not a regular onager." I'm also laughing at the image of them finding and carrying like thirty beehives just to lob them at some guys.
That's what I was thinking. Trebuchets had cow carcasses to sling in M2TW IIRC, in addition to stones. They should've done the same thing and just make the beehives an ammo type. Imagine if they split the same regular onager/beehive onager hairs with the likes of Empire TW--solid shot cannons, canister shot cannons, shell cannons...half your army is cannons just so you can fire different munitions. Lol.
"Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Shit. Ow. Shitshitshit. Ow." "Marcus, please for the love of Jupiter, shut up." "Sorry sir, ow, shit, I'm carrying ammo for the Onager. Ow. Damn bees."
That's where legionaries who pissed off their generals were sent. "Gods damn it Severus, how many times have I told you to shit in the latrines and not the mess tent? That's it. You're on beehive duty"
Unit pack DLCs are almost never a good idea. If the units are great, it's pay-to-win. If the units are underwhelming, the customer feels cheated. If the units are well-balanced, it's often a case of cut content. Warhammer's Lord packs are the only time this was done right IMO, since the units aren't the primary content of the DLC and they're only for one or two factions, so people who like those factions get more of what they like and not 5-6 units that they'll never use. Anyone who doesn't care for those factions doesn't miss out on much by not buying the DLC.
Puckle guns from Empire. Top-tier Immovable artillery with a comparable range to muskets, and which has less firepower than a regular line infantry unit and requires a bunch of tech research to unlock.
"better resistant to charges" compared to line infantry? lol no. Line infantry is the best unit in the game you can just counter charge and most times do ok especially with more than 1 unit. Give me 3 units of line infantry and 1 set of large direct fire cannons and I can take on the world.
accually the puckle guns in empire have a limber and a horse team to move them around I use them myself and I know they have a horse team to move them. same in mods they have a horse team to move them only the demi and stalker cannons for most western factions and the 64 pounder field guns don't have a horse team in vanilla to move them.
Nah, they're alright in the same way Gatlings are in FOTS. They bring firepower like an infantry unit but occupy a much smaller area on your line than one. Their purpose is concentrated firepower, not being artillery.
00:24 Wooden Cannons from Shogun 2 01:14 Giants from Warhammer 2 02:22 Indian elephants from Attila 03:37 Mangenel from Medieval 2 05:32 Bee hive Onager from Rome 2
Honestly, as he said they're just unreliable. They do amazing damage for an artillery unit (especially a Medieval II one), but the problem is that they just as often hit your own troops unless they're literally just in front of them, and you better shut their attack off when the enemy is closing in or you'll get a lot of friendly - and literal - fire in your ranks. And TBH, in most campaigns where they can be used, you'll get gunpowder soon enough anyways, which means Serpentines, which do similar work a lot better and can even arc their shots to a degree - and if you can force the enemy into a choke point like say, defending a city or the enemy sallying out of a gate... *whistles*
Wood cannons in Fall of the Samurai actually have a very niche use: they force the AI to attack you if they don't have any artillery themselfs. So even if you are attacking a defending AI, bring 1 wooden cannon and the AI will still attack you.
If the beehive onager can kill ten enemy troops then it's still ten times more effective than the rocket launcher from Empire Total War. I once created an army of twenty rocket launchers firing upon a slowly advancing infantry army. By the time the infantry had closed in I think they had lost two men in total. I feel the Hawk Riders from the Wood Elves should be there too.
@@Johnny-Thunder You realise hawk riders are ranged right? They are used to wear down the enemies armies from above, and the flanks, and they can do considerable damage to large units too with that weapon strength. Once out of ammo, they can flank an engaged melee line with a rear charge, causing a huge leadership penalty that usually leads to a rout.
@@dawaaagh7496 They barely kill anything. I let them shoot armoured targets because they are armour piercing, but once I get a full stack they are a waste of space because any other archer unit is better at killing stuff than they are, and every cav unit is better at rear charging.
@@Johnny-Thunder Except the hawk riders provide air superiority? Nice dragon, ima keep shooting at it and you cant hit or catch me like you can with other units. Oh hey Vamps? Let me kill your air troops since they cant catch me, then you cant hurt me at all! mwahahah. 24 models, you are not going to get alot of kills from a unit of 24 archers on a hawk. You will do a fuckton of damage to the enemy though.
Imagine being a crew member on a beehive onager, sticking your hand into a giant ammo stash of bee hives sat next to your artillery piece to retrieve a bee hive, nothing can possibly go wrong there
@@Uragan00829 yes they are and it's obvious when you compare an original version and kingdoms, where it was fixed. This bug only concern 2h sword units though, not another 2h units
@@ulaslolatitudinarian9860 Nope. This "bug" (which migh not be a bug in a first place and is just a myth) wasn't fixed, they just properly balanced all the two handers. That's why two handed swords are soo good in Kingdoms, because they aren't affected by this "bug" in the first place. And only two handed axes are affected by it.
@@Uragan00829 you can give them op stats in descr unit and they will still fuck up when charging. That's why it's called a bug. The fact is that 2h swords have actually very decent stats, this can be proven when you use them in "pure" battle conditions, without two units charging. If you ain't believe me, you can just give zweihanders same stats in original and kingdoms and compare their charge. So it's just a charge bug.
Mangonels are not good in siege defence? You can get hundreds of kills with them under the right circumstance. If you abandon the idea of defending the walls and instead put all your troops in the city square then the AI is very likely to rush all its troops down a single street, then you just block the entrance with infantry and have your mangonels stand close by and fire into the street. Works well with catapults too and on bridge maps. I've cheesed 20 unit deathstacks with nothing more than a single mangonel unit, two catapult units and a couple of spear militias even when outnumbered. Just a word of advice: zooming in to watch the carnage crashed my game basically every time.
Derp Agreed. Best deployed firing at near point blank range. I have extremely fond memories of deploying them in bridge defences against the mongols... I can still smell the fried horse...
Put them just behind your wall and watch them shred the enemy as they come towards your gate. Their fire even lingers a bit and burns units as they walk over it.
Never used them in open field. But when I can, I use them as garrison in towns/cities. I usually deploy my whole garrison (5-6 spear militia most often) and the mangonel in town center and use it to shoot people walking up the main lane to the center. It's like a bridge battle. And it's very effective since, even if I lose, I get a tremendous kill ratio, even on giant professional armies.
True, but they're not "disappointing." The player is supposed to expect that they're shit - most low tier germanic infantry is. Pretty much all other cultures have early access to solid infantry - not the germanic factions. They're more about shock cavalry early on.
Gothic Knights are armor piercing since they have maces. Even with worse stats they'll wreck other cavalry that don't have maces. Not the best, but still pretty good. Dismounted Gothic Knights on the other hand...
@@franzlomislic369 Isn't that a problem with two-handers in general? Low attack speed meant their animations kept being interrupted. AFAIK the stats were adjusted to compensate in the Kingdoms expansion.
Pretty much all the highest level trade buildings in Rome and Medieval 2. They are so expensive that more often than not the time it would take for them to repay their building cost is longer than the time remaining in the campaign
@@Flamingbannas Churches in Attila TW. They are not only useless, like alot of buildings in TW games; they are outright bad and should be dismantled, because you have to pay upkeep for them.
imagine having a whole ass onager just so it can lob beehives across the field, probably would have been more effective as a skirmisher unit like in med 2
4. Its the same with giants in the original tabel top. They look cool and are strong but usually are taken down by artillery before they make it to the enemies line. Just being that big and strong makes you a massive and easy to hit target
The mangonels are decent at helping making missile cavalry rout even if they are shooting in circle, they also tend to stay on the sides so you don't risk friendly fire. Very appreciated in the teutonic campaign. And the fire shall cleanse them filthy pagans.
It's all about the placement with Mangonels in Medieval 2 Kingdoms. If you have them behind a strong infantry line up a hill firing down on masses of attacking infantry (slowed down by a steep climb), then 4 or 5 mangonel units can do over a thousand casualties. And of course you place them as far forwards as possible to limit the friendly fire. It largely luck whether you get to fight a battle like this, but the ideal situation is one where you have a hill like lecture theatre, where the slope is like a funnel spreading outwards as it rises, so you can get enfilade as well as defilade in a concave curve. But if you find a battle site like that, exploit it mercilessly. There's one south of Zagreb, I believe.
The mangonel you are wrong they are a defensive atillery. Put in choke points in your cities or a pass. With your defensive millitary right behind same way i use monster ribaults in medieval 2 I always use them for defensive tactics highly effective, when you channel a huge group into a choke point like street ways
Usually catapults a better because they have a decent distance where they can’t hit something in front of them. Thus you can put your own troops there to make sure they’re safe. However, they work best in settlements which are flat and have straight roads, Mangonels excel here where the roads have twists and turns and the settlement is on a hill.
I actually quite like the mangonel in Medieval 2, for field battles at least. Although when you deploy them, you have to deploy them quite close to your front lines so there is little to no chance that it will explode over your own units. If you do that and give it some time, it will wreck enemy infantry units.
I agree for the Mangonels for being everyone is your target, but I can use them in single player in defending choke points. It was one of the most sacrificial tactics I ever did from on an rts game.
Mangonels are ez to use. Just have them so near the front that they can't friendly fire. Also they are so damn useful in sieges. When you break into a town have them fire into the main road towards where you are and the settlement wall will shield your units. Also I think one of the most disappointing units are collectively all of the two hander units in vanilla MTW2. The fact that it's a game wide fuck up concerning many late units of many factions is what makes it very disappointing.
I didn't even know the beehive onager existed until now... Never heard of it, seen it or will use it lol, thanks for making me aware of its existence though!
Top 5 things that still make you giggle a little in total war. A more personal video, but TW can have some very cathartic moments. Which ones haven't lost their ability to make you giggle or chuckle when they happen?
I actually just place the mangonel just behind my troops in defensive situations. They can barely launch their projectiles before they are past my troops. I do play rather defensive though.
About the elephants: their weakness to missiles is not unrealistic. Against a line of javeliners or a band of bowmen, elephants where not expected to last. Those units stood in loose formation so that they could disperse in the face of an elephant charge and the beast would soon run mad with pain and flee the battle against the command of their riders. This famously happened to the army of Hannibal Barca at the battle of Zama, when they charged a line of javeliners.
My top most disappointing unit will always be the elephants in Empire Total War, because I dont know if they eventually changed it, but in the base game, they die to any projectile in a single hit. A single tomahawk from a native american unit will KILL a full-grown elephant in Empire.
@an nice from what I saw and the advisor said about elephants is that the smell and size frightens both horses and camels putting a terror penalty on the cav section. light dragoons with there talents for firing while mounted can keep out of range of the elephants and can weaken them that way before closing in to finish them off in hand to hand. with the winged hussars you can win v elephants with them just you need to weaken the elephant section first before closing in or do moral shocks on them to route them if weakening them is impossible.
@an nice I see I usually don't play as the mougals nor marathars who can use them passivally nor the ottomans when they get to india to use them so all I know is how to defend against them and counter them.
Agreed. I've played Rome 2 SOOO much and when i used the Beehive Onager, it was such a waste. The only good thing is that i used it in a multiplayer battle so i wasn't loosing out on a campaign or anything.
Two Handers were fixed with patches/kingdoms. You may need to put your game code into steam to get that to work. Anyway, if you want good pikes, Stainless Steel fixed them pretty much.
@@CentreSwift Yeah. The problem is pikes have a secondary weapon, so they switch to that the moment the enemy comes within spitting distance. I was really disappointed playing as the Scots and discovering half my infantry roster to be completely useless.
Mangonels are insanely useful for gate defence in medieval 2, grab some mangonels grab some spearmen and watch the fun ensue as 100 men get blown to bits in seconds following one short range shot from a mangonel. I used them with terrifying effect in Stainless steel against the mongol invasion with my mangonels often having half the kills.
Just put the mangonel closer to your own infantry, so you won't have that problem. Put it closely behind your infantry that is holding the line at a chokepoint and it's a really good unit.
The bees are used in fear army builds. It can be clearly seen in your own video that some enemy troops are breaking even before they start fighting. So I don't get why you say that there is no situation to use them. Same for elephants. It is a poor choice to fill an army with these units, to do a front charge and then say: "Look how disappointing they are!"
Elephants wont be as effective as well placed cav in attila either since they are slow enough to be hit by infantry javs. Since in Attila everyone and their mother has a javelin or two to throw at you. Good luck enganging them on anything but a winning flank.
Mangonels can have some good utility when the AI is camping during a battle. Put them right in front of your infantry, have them fire at the enemy mass, and then rush your infantry forward when the enemy comes to counterattack.
I've found that the best use of the wooden cannons in FOTS is to use them against horses, I've managed to rack up some decent kills by using them on saber cavalry and the like. They're also useful for forcing a defending army with no artillery to attack, thus allowing you to fight the battle on your terms.
I agree with everything BUT the flaming mangonel. I love that thing. You simply need to know how to use it. For starters, you need to fire it long before the enemy comes close to your troops. You're keeping it so far away from your front line. And try using multiple mangonels targeting a single area, like supporting fire. Bring less troops, with less, multiple enemy units tend to target a few units closer to them,-cluster. Also try clustering the enemy by checkerboarding your units on the flanks forward rather than keep them all in one line. By counterflanking your unit from the center they oddly don't bother running all the way around so they end up clustering. You can also try targeting all the proper units while they move to increase accuracy. Mangonels are like flying sky minefields, or.....mineskies? They have a large area which is what hit your units in the video. Proper usage reduces chances of friendly fire so hard that some rare friendly fire is ok compared to damage it does.Interestingly, proper enemy unit targeting can also increase reliability where and when it will explode. It's hard to explain in words what units you should target, you simply have to see the opportunities and take them, call the shots properly. For me they're a godsend. No trebuchets, no catapults, no ballistas, just good ol mangonels.
Yea i guess if you charge in elephant and giant first they suck. Or use them with some slight intelligence and use your infantry first before using them as a support on your flanks.
You can use the Mangonels on a defensive siege to great effect against horse factions ( the Mongols). Block City center with spear units. Mangonel very close behind it. Fire at Mongols charging down the lane. I took down 2 and half stacks of Mongols with a half stack of units. Only lost because spears finally broke.
Mangonels are a fantastic unit - treat them like cannons in Empire/Napolean in that you leave a gap in your line for them to fit in and use a fair few units of them. Then sit back and watch over half the enemy cook to raining fire before they get within melee range!
The best way to use the mangonel in a battle is to adopt a defensive stance and have it right behind your infantry. When the melee begins (or when the enemy is close enough that you might get friendly fire), turn off fire at will and manually target the enemy archers. This way friendly fire is minimized. They can also be useful when you're defending in a siege; they're great for setting siege equipment on fire and they can do serious damage to bunched up enemies in the streets. That said, they're definitely not worth putting in an army you are planning on invading an enemy with as they're pretty useless in any offensive capacity. The only real reason to recruit one is to pull a defense together when better units are unavailable because of the unit pool system.
I played the Baltic campaign a lot, as Teutons, mangonels were ok, as long as you used them to pepper the enemy from afar. Friendly fire only becomes an issue when the enemy gets close to you but this is where missile troops come into equation, only mortars are useful artillery for close combat, almost all other artillery stops being useful when the enemy is closer than 100 m.
@@igoralekseyev3347 All 2H units in MTW2. Varangian guard? Blows. Zweihänder and Forlorn Hope? Suck. Dismounted English knights? Can't kill shit. Those Danish guys in full plate armour with halberds described as "deadly, professional troops"? Good for nothing.
Personally in my eyes the Mangonel in Medieval 2 is not disappointing by a long shot, that thing has given me enough laughs seeing both the mine and the enemy's armies wiped out from Mangonel fire to make up for any cost.
Pretty much agree. The only way to fix the artillery units is to use them as front line and let incantry move ahead when the enemy is close. Kinda an archer killer but the management and the limited use is a no go. And about the giants. Maybe you should use them as in the LOTR movies. You know, playing drums or pulling stuff (lausy expensive cows)
The thing about mangonels in M2:TW is that their fuse is VERY unreliable (that's what too much realism does), so it's a poor choice to use as a long-range artillery in open-field battles. There's a niche that you can use it, which is in defensive sieges. Just park a few militia units in one of the paths leading to the city square with a mangonel unit just distant enough to arc the shots, wait for the enemy to send every single unit to try to push through and when the blob is filled up, shoot in the middle of the it. The barrels don't need to explode mid-air, a hit will result in a powerful explosion that will wipe anything close to it (that includes enemy generals). One salvo, under right circumstances, can rival a good Wind of Death.
You're right on the beehive onager. Don't forget how it's also locked behind a siege engineer's workshop..... something you probably won't build until midgame.
Mangonels work well if you position them right being your infantry line. Obviously a thin line charged by heavy cavalry could result in the crew getting distracted, but the ammo is limited by the time that happens they're usually out anyway. They're incredibly effective defending bridges right behind a pike block. I've had good luck with mortars in bridge defenses as well, cannon just don't work like they do in the early modern games, but the mangonel can just incinerate packed masses of Infantry in the right context.
Mangonels are also pretty good in siege defenses. Catapults as is are godlike in them, but when the enemy is massing in the streets Mangonels have a nice firing arc that allow them to do a lot of damage wherever the enemy is. Catapults though need a straight city street or have the enemy right in front of them to be effective.
My pick for medieval 2's worst is the Forlorn Hope. half-strength (but still only has 1hp), 2-handed bug, and a whopping 620 to recruit and 250 upkeep. I've never used the mangonels, so I didn't realize how bad they were. It seems like you could put them at the front, fire a volley or two, and then just have the crew run away.
Mangonels are pretty good but they have to be positioned and used right. Youll want them immediately behind your front like, literaly touching your infantry and that will completely keep you sage from friendly fire. That removes its special micro need. It is also nice at picking of units hiding behind walls in sieges. In single player it also counts as a wallbreaker for auto resolve so all in all it is not that baf and rather fun. It is early campaign and for its price it delivers good value. It simple fits another niche than most arty
silver shield swordsmen in rome 2. one of the (for me) most iconic units of the time and they are pretty much just the same as every other faction has at that tier.
Incendiary pigs from the original Rome should have been in here. You have to wait so damn long to unlock them, they sound awesome but actually they do nothing whatsoever. Also worth mentioning stealth units (like Arcani in RTW or battlefield ninjas in S2TW) which seem awesome but mostly just die because they're so few in number. Not to say that they aren't useful (ninjas can be devastating if used well and supported by a bit of luck) but they're much worse than they seem and tend to get spotted and overwhelmed by some random unit before they get to ambush a high value target.
I only use elephants as a specialized shock unit, ideally with some surprise, like shock cavalry, to destroy an enemy's rear or break their heavy infantry flanks, after a battle is well under way and the enemy's missile units are already engaged.
I love the mangonel, they are particularly useful when defending in a siege. Put all ur soldiers in the town square facing the attackers and I often put a mangonel and a catapult right behind them. Wait for the enemy to bunch up and unleash the fury of the mangonel. One shot can take out an entire squad, this is how I defend against the Mongols and Timurids
One of the few channels that uses a clickbait thumbnail, but still pulls off being a great video, making you not care about the clickbait thumbnail by the time you reach a minute in.
I will say one thing in defence of the wooden cannons, because of their high arc of fire they are perfect for sniping enemy artillery when defending a siege.
Top 5 beast units eg dragons from war Hammer (Ik this is really 2 title centric but it’s something cool you could do war elephants tho aswell ik you covered a few of them in this video but a dedicated one would be pretty cool)
i use mangonels but i dont keep it that far apart from my units to avoid friendly fire and they actually helped me a lot routing a bunch of enemy units before they clash into mine
Fun thing, I actually got a Wooden Cannon in Fall of the Samurai to rank 9, and it had pretty good kills, though it was in a castle, and I usually targeted the generals with it if I could.
I am happy to report that with the latest patch (6/20/2020), giants have actually gotten much better. They still get wrecked by arrow fire, but not as much as before
Even though it is cheap, I always found the burning pigs from Rome 1 absolutely disapointing and useless. They are only useful in very specific situations (against elephants that are on top of your army), one shot only and as stated the elephants literally have to be standing on.your guys to have an opportunity to work. Plus the fact all is does is make them rampage so it's only effective if some how you manage to get these incredibly vulnerable troops away from your force, have them survive, and then hope the pigs don't just run away from the elephants before they impact them.
I would have agreed with the inclusion of mangonels on this list until I figured out how to use them effectively. Just don't put any of your own troops in front of them. Stick friendly troops immediately behind them instead. If they get overrun the crew can disengage and fall back until after the melee is over. Their accuracy improves with experience and it isn't difficult to get experience if you use them to clear breaches or defend bridges. I do think they should have been given alternate stone shot ammo, so they could be used to batter fortifications as well. That's usually how they were used, and I don't think it would make them OP.
I geuss you can say it depends on how you use those units. For example the Giants. I'd have a cavalry unit occupy the archers while the Giants take on the main bulk of the army. Archers can't fire volleys if they're occupied fighting cav.
I would have included a slot for Shogun 2 Heroes. All 3 campaigns. A handful of them are okay at best. But in reality theyre all extremely high tier units with troop sizes really small, limited to 1 per unit and use cases so niche that you could go your entire campaign ignoring them and be losing out on basically nothing. Not to mention a large amount of them are also locked behind a dlc paywall the same as the beehive onager.
So the beehive onager is its own unit, like it only fires beehives? Why didn't they just make it a type of ammo for the regular onager? The way they did it just seems so stupid.
"Lucius, get some stones for the onager!" "Sorry, imperator, this is a beehive onager, not a regular onager."
I'm also laughing at the image of them finding and carrying like thirty beehives just to lob them at some guys.
That's what I was thinking. Trebuchets had cow carcasses to sling in M2TW IIRC, in addition to stones. They should've done the same thing and just make the beehives an ammo type. Imagine if they split the same regular onager/beehive onager hairs with the likes of Empire TW--solid shot cannons, canister shot cannons, shell cannons...half your army is cannons just so you can fire different munitions. Lol.
DLC, just has if Medieval 2 Kingdoms was released today we would have gotten 4 separate faction DLC's.
"Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Shit. Ow. Shitshitshit. Ow."
"Marcus, please for the love of Jupiter, shut up."
"Sorry sir, ow, shit, I'm carrying ammo for the Onager. Ow. Damn bees."
Stuffing soldiers full of sugar with the honey gets you a morale boost 😂
That's where legionaries who pissed off their generals were sent.
"Gods damn it Severus, how many times have I told you to shit in the latrines and not the mess tent? That's it. You're on beehive duty"
I suspect more total war players have used bee hive onagers than actual Ancient Roman's...
Didn't Hannibal order to use them in some naval battle? Or were it scorpions and snakes?
@@Mr.HeisenbergTheCook Probably the latter.
Es_ist_Lars venomous snakes in naval battles
@@Mr.HeisenbergTheCook But Hannibal was a fucking savage beast from Carthage.
Well it's a waste of perfectly good bees.
Besides, I know I'd use the fuck out of them... BEECAUSE BEES.
th-cam.com/video/3WmyeqVxCV0/w-d-xo.html
The grand finale pick lol can't believe you had to pay money via DLC to use that nonsense
Unit pack DLCs are almost never a good idea. If the units are great, it's pay-to-win. If the units are underwhelming, the customer feels cheated. If the units are well-balanced, it's often a case of cut content.
Warhammer's Lord packs are the only time this was done right IMO, since the units aren't the primary content of the DLC and they're only for one or two factions, so people who like those factions get more of what they like and not 5-6 units that they'll never use. Anyone who doesn't care for those factions doesn't miss out on much by not buying the DLC.
Tho the snake ones are ok but still pale in comparison to the classic
How difficult would it have been to collect enough beehives to operate these things anyway?
What are the differences between beehive onagers and snake/scorpion ballistas?
@@Overlord734 One sucks balls and the other sucks ass
Top 5 most annoying mechanics in total war
Being excommunicated for defending yourself.
@@cass7448
Yeah xD
there is no tactical fallback for pikemens: going back while looking foward.
thrones of bretannia
Troops supply in medieval 2
Puckle guns from Empire. Top-tier Immovable artillery with a comparable range to muskets, and which has less firepower than a regular line infantry unit and requires a bunch of tech research to unlock.
And bugs out during deployment
Well they are pretty cheap and better resistant to charges, since up close every shot will hit, so they are not the best, but can have their used
"better resistant to charges"
compared to line infantry? lol no. Line infantry is the best unit in the game you can just counter charge and most times do ok especially with more than 1 unit.
Give me 3 units of line infantry and 1 set of large direct fire cannons and I can take on the world.
accually the puckle guns in empire have a limber and a horse team to move them around I use them myself and I know they have a horse team to move them. same in mods they have a horse team to move them only the demi and stalker cannons for most western factions and the 64 pounder field guns don't have a horse team in vanilla to move them.
Nah, they're alright in the same way Gatlings are in FOTS. They bring firepower like an infantry unit but occupy a much smaller area on your line than one.
Their purpose is concentrated firepower, not being artillery.
> no reason to use Bee Hive Units
what about my meme battles where it's nothing but filthy peasants and bee hives
Top 5 campaign maps might be nice. Lots of ways to judge them.
00:24 Wooden Cannons from Shogun 2
01:14 Giants from Warhammer 2
02:22 Indian elephants from Attila
03:37 Mangenel from Medieval 2
05:32 Bee hive Onager from Rome 2
TOP 5 Total war mods
I think its time for this
@@LegendofTotalWar definitely the warhammer & lotr mods are on that list
Just five sounds hard!
Thera for M2 obviously comes in first place
Roma Surrectum III
Although I suspect the battle length won't be to Legend's tastes.
Legend: Mangonels aren't good
*Pixelated Apollo has left the chat*
Honestly, as he said they're just unreliable. They do amazing damage for an artillery unit (especially a Medieval II one), but the problem is that they just as often hit your own troops unless they're literally just in front of them, and you better shut their attack off when the enemy is closing in or you'll get a lot of friendly - and literal - fire in your ranks.
And TBH, in most campaigns where they can be used, you'll get gunpowder soon enough anyways, which means Serpentines, which do similar work a lot better and can even arc their shots to a degree - and if you can force the enemy into a choke point like say, defending a city or the enemy sallying out of a gate... *whistles*
If you know how to use them they're amazing
@@Luke_Danger you mean anyway not anyways.
Rome 2 General: "You mean not one of their men is allergic to bees!?"
4:03 - God, that was painful to watch.
Weve all been there
happens to me every time using that crap.
Wood cannons in Fall of the Samurai actually have a very niche use: they force the AI to attack you if they don't have any artillery themselfs. So even if you are attacking a defending AI, bring 1 wooden cannon and the AI will still attack you.
Wood cannons are also good when defending forts.
Top 5 strongest early game/ low tier units.
Cameron Green. Hastati and any generals bodyguard unit
LEVYYYYYYYYYYYY FREEEEMAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!
Donkey: 5. Yari Ashigaru
4. Yari Ashigaru
3. Yari Ashigaru
2. Yari Ashigaru
1. Oda Long Yari Ashigaru
Cameron Green saurus warrios
@@bobthetop3242 Yeah, the first time I fought Saurus warriors in campaign I quickly learned to fear them. Very strong for how early they're available.
If the beehive onager can kill ten enemy troops then it's still ten times more effective than the rocket launcher from Empire Total War. I once created an army of twenty rocket launchers firing upon a slowly advancing infantry army. By the time the infantry had closed in I think they had lost two men in total.
I feel the Hawk Riders from the Wood Elves should be there too.
Hawk riders? Erm, no.
@@dawaaagh7496 Do you manage to kill anything with it? How? Other than chasing down routing units...
@@Johnny-Thunder You realise hawk riders are ranged right? They are used to wear down the enemies armies from above, and the flanks, and they can do considerable damage to large units too with that weapon strength. Once out of ammo, they can flank an engaged melee line with a rear charge, causing a huge leadership penalty that usually leads to a rout.
@@dawaaagh7496 They barely kill anything. I let them shoot armoured targets because they are armour piercing, but once I get a full stack they are a waste of space because any other archer unit is better at killing stuff than they are, and every cav unit is better at rear charging.
@@Johnny-Thunder Except the hawk riders provide air superiority? Nice dragon, ima keep shooting at it and you cant hit or catch me like you can with other units. Oh hey Vamps? Let me kill your air troops since they cant catch me, then you cant hurt me at all! mwahahah. 24 models, you are not going to get alot of kills from a unit of 24 archers on a hawk. You will do a fuckton of damage to the enemy though.
Top 5 easter eggs in total war
I bet Themiskyra takes first place, the hidden city in Russia with female chariot archers, elephants and gold mines.
sex
Like the new world in Medievel 2?
Lord of the Ring's Mumakil as cheat unit in Rome
I was playing as the Seleucids in Rome 1 and Egypt offered to make be a protectorate and the message at the top said "all your base are belong to us"
Imagine being a crew member on a beehive onager, sticking your hand into a giant ammo stash of bee hives sat next to your artillery piece to retrieve a bee hive, nothing can possibly go wrong there
Top 5 goofiest Rome 2 character portraits.
“No reason to ever use a bee hive onager!”
*enemy flees without even taking casualties*
Honorable mention: The Two-handed units in Medieval II. The bug involved in those units really stings, especially to Dismounted Gothic Knights.
They aren't bugged, just their stats are trash
@@Uragan00829 yes they are and it's obvious when you compare an original version and kingdoms, where it was fixed. This bug only concern 2h sword units though, not another 2h units
@@ulaslolatitudinarian9860 Nope. This "bug" (which migh not be a bug in a first place and is just a myth) wasn't fixed, they just properly balanced all the two handers. That's why two handed swords are soo good in Kingdoms, because they aren't affected by this "bug" in the first place. And only two handed axes are affected by it.
@@Uragan00829 you can give them op stats in descr unit and they will still fuck up when charging. That's why it's called a bug. The fact is that 2h swords have actually very decent stats, this can be proven when you use them in "pure" battle conditions, without two units charging. If you ain't believe me, you can just give zweihanders same stats in original and kingdoms and compare their charge. So it's just a charge bug.
@@ulaslolatitudinarian9860 Hmm... Maybe you are talking about a different issue? Like I think two handed "bug" is about attack speed and not charging.
Mangonels are not good in siege defence? You can get hundreds of kills with them under the right circumstance. If you abandon the idea of defending the walls and instead put all your troops in the city square then the AI is very likely to rush all its troops down a single street, then you just block the entrance with infantry and have your mangonels stand close by and fire into the street. Works well with catapults too and on bridge maps. I've cheesed 20 unit deathstacks with nothing more than a single mangonel unit, two catapult units and a couple of spear militias even when outnumbered.
Just a word of advice: zooming in to watch the carnage crashed my game basically every time.
I know he used Stainless Steel, but mangonels were a crucial part of Skantarios' strategy for the I Am Skantarios' AAR.
Mangonels are awesome and can rout an entire army if deployed correctly. They are just very strategic.
Derp Agreed. Best deployed firing at near point blank range. I have extremely fond memories of deploying them in bridge defences against the mongols... I can still smell the fried horse...
Put them just behind your wall and watch them shred the enemy as they come towards your gate. Their fire even lingers a bit and burns units as they walk over it.
True, as long as your ok with it being your own army
Never used them in open field. But when I can, I use them as garrison in towns/cities.
I usually deploy my whole garrison (5-6 spear militia most often) and the mangonel in town center and use it to shoot people walking up the main lane to the center. It's like a bridge battle. And it's very effective since, even if I lose, I get a tremendous kill ratio, even on giant professional armies.
I try to keep at least one mangonel in each border settlement for this reason.
What about Attilas first teir for the germanic bodyguard? They are worse than normal infantry.
They're very tanky at least so they get a lot of kills just by staying alive for a long time. In my experience
True, but they're not "disappointing." The player is supposed to expect that they're shit - most low tier germanic infantry is. Pretty much all other cultures have early access to solid infantry - not the germanic factions. They're more about shock cavalry early on.
Dismounted Gothic Knights from M2TW should have been here
Shhhh, leave my gothic knights alone
Gothic Knights are armor piercing since they have maces. Even with worse stats they'll wreck other cavalry that don't have maces. Not the best, but still pretty good. Dismounted Gothic Knights on the other hand...
@@blakeares3424 Yea i meant the dismounted two handed ones
@@franzlomislic369 Yeah, they're pretty shit. The HRE has some late game infantry issues.
@@franzlomislic369 Isn't that a problem with two-handers in general? Low attack speed meant their animations kept being interrupted. AFAIK the stats were adjusted to compensate in the Kingdoms expansion.
Top 5 most influential generals or characters in total war franchise
Top 5 useless buildings in a total war game
Academies in Rome TW
Pretty much all the highest level trade buildings in Rome and Medieval 2. They are so expensive that more often than not the time it would take for them to repay their building cost is longer than the time remaining in the campaign
@@Adrian_Ostrowski Academys were all for the retinue, turning your useless governors and generals into legends
@@Flamingbannas Churches in Attila TW. They are not only useless, like alot of buildings in TW games; they are outright bad and should be dismantled, because you have to pay upkeep for them.
@@RobertP2000 huh? I was talking about Academys form rtw, I've never actually played Attila
imagine having a whole ass onager just so it can lob beehives across the field, probably would have been more effective as a skirmisher unit like in med 2
Funnily enough, "onager" is the Latin term for (a specific species of) ass (= donkey, get your mind out of the gutter!)
4. Its the same with giants in the original tabel top. They look cool and are strong but usually are taken down by artillery before they make it to the enemies line.
Just being that big and strong makes you a massive and easy to hit target
The mangonels are decent at helping making missile cavalry rout even if they are shooting in circle, they also tend to stay on the sides so you don't risk friendly fire. Very appreciated in the teutonic campaign.
And the fire shall cleanse them filthy pagans.
It's all about the placement with Mangonels in Medieval 2 Kingdoms. If you have them behind a strong infantry line up a hill firing down on masses of attacking infantry (slowed down by a steep climb), then 4 or 5 mangonel units can do over a thousand casualties. And of course you place them as far forwards as possible to limit the friendly fire. It largely luck whether you get to fight a battle like this, but the ideal situation is one where you have a hill like lecture theatre, where the slope is like a funnel spreading outwards as it rises, so you can get enfilade as well as defilade in a concave curve. But if you find a battle site like that, exploit it mercilessly. There's one south of Zagreb, I believe.
The mangonel you are wrong they are a defensive atillery. Put in choke points in your cities or a pass. With your defensive millitary right behind same way i use monster ribaults in medieval 2 I always use them for defensive tactics highly effective, when you channel a huge group into a choke point like street ways
I thought of the same thing, but you can do that with other siege too. And other siege is still more effective that that one in other aspects.
Legend is always on the offensive i guess that's why he don't need that kind of unit
Usually catapults a better because they have a decent distance where they can’t hit something in front of them. Thus you can put your own troops there to make sure they’re safe. However, they work best in settlements which are flat and have straight roads, Mangonels excel here where the roads have twists and turns and the settlement is on a hill.
The mangonel is better than other artillery as it creates more moral damage
I actually quite like the mangonel in Medieval 2, for field battles at least. Although when you deploy them, you have to deploy them quite close to your front lines so there is little to no chance that it will explode over your own units. If you do that and give it some time, it will wreck enemy infantry units.
I agree for the Mangonels for being everyone is your target, but I can use them in single player in defending choke points. It was one of the most sacrificial tactics I ever did from on an rts game.
Mangonels are ez to use. Just have them so near the front that they can't friendly fire. Also they are so damn useful in sieges. When you break into a town have them fire into the main road towards where you are and the settlement wall will shield your units.
Also I think one of the most disappointing units are collectively all of the two hander units in vanilla MTW2. The fact that it's a game wide fuck up concerning many late units of many factions is what makes it very disappointing.
Top 5 building systems in total war (variety of buildings and how flexible upgrading settlements are)
Pretty sure Legend would pick Med2 as #1.
I didn't even know the beehive onager existed until now... Never heard of it, seen it or will use it lol, thanks for making me aware of its existence though!
Not going to lie, I was expecting the flame pigs in this top.
Do. Not. Insult. Incendiary. Pigs.
Top 5 things that still make you giggle a little in total war.
A more personal video, but TW can have some very cathartic moments. Which ones haven't lost their ability to make you giggle or chuckle when they happen?
I actually just place the mangonel just behind my troops in defensive situations. They can barely launch their projectiles before they are past my troops. I do play rather defensive though.
About the elephants: their weakness to missiles is not unrealistic. Against a line of javeliners or a band of bowmen, elephants where not expected to last. Those units stood in loose formation so that they could disperse in the face of an elephant charge and the beast would soon run mad with pain and flee the battle against the command of their riders. This famously happened to the army of Hannibal Barca at the battle of Zama, when they charged a line of javeliners.
My top most disappointing unit will always be the elephants in Empire Total War, because I dont know if they eventually changed it, but in the base game, they die to any projectile in a single hit.
A single tomahawk from a native american unit will KILL a full-grown elephant in Empire.
well the elephants destroy cav and heavy infantry formations it is only light infantry is where they struggle against.
@an nice from what I saw and the advisor said about elephants is that the smell and size frightens both horses and camels putting a terror penalty on the cav section. light dragoons with there talents for firing while mounted can keep out of range of the elephants and can weaken them that way before closing in to finish them off in hand to hand.
with the winged hussars you can win v elephants with them just you need to weaken the elephant section first before closing in or do moral shocks on them to route them if weakening them is impossible.
@an nice I see I usually don't play as the mougals nor marathars who can use them passivally nor the ottomans when they get to india to use them so all I know is how to defend against them and counter them.
Agreed. I've played Rome 2 SOOO much and when i used the Beehive Onager, it was such a waste. The only good thing is that i used it in a multiplayer battle so i wasn't loosing out on a campaign or anything.
Any two hander unit in Medieval 2 + special shoutout to pikes in that cathegory. Medieval 2 pikes gotta be the most disappointing to me.
Two Handers were fixed with patches/kingdoms. You may need to put your game code into steam to get that to work. Anyway, if you want good pikes, Stainless Steel fixed them pretty much.
They always seem to hate using their pikes the second they get touched.
Aventuros are strong pikes.
@@CentreSwift Yeah. The problem is pikes have a secondary weapon, so they switch to that the moment the enemy comes within spitting distance. I was really disappointed playing as the Scots and discovering half my infantry roster to be completely useless.
@@greatyng442 Yeah I love the way the Scots look with the noble units but the pikes do get the short end of the stick.
It is icredible how the menu soundtracks of rome, medieval 2, empire, rome 2 and attila make me feel so much the minute I hear them.
how to fix the Bee Hive Onager:
Use Wasps instead
The wasps would annihilate your army before they fired once
That's a war crime
@@Nico42048 Its only a war crime if they signed the Geneva Accords, which wont exist for 2000 years. so its perfectly fine
Mangonels are insanely useful for gate defence in medieval 2, grab some mangonels grab some spearmen and watch the fun ensue as 100 men get blown to bits in seconds following one short range shot from a mangonel. I used them with terrifying effect in Stainless steel against the mongol invasion with my mangonels often having half the kills.
Do Top 5 best AI for Total War series for the next one
Just put the mangonel closer to your own infantry, so you won't have that problem. Put it closely behind your infantry that is holding the line at a chokepoint and it's a really good unit.
The bees are used in fear army builds. It can be clearly seen in your own video that some enemy troops are breaking even before they start fighting.
So I don't get why you say that there is no situation to use them. Same for elephants. It is a poor choice to fill an army with these units, to do a front charge and then say: "Look how disappointing they are!"
Elephants wont be as effective as well placed cav in attila either since they are slow enough to be hit by infantry javs. Since in Attila everyone and their mother has a javelin or two to throw at you. Good luck enganging them on anything but a winning flank.
Mangonels can have some good utility when the AI is camping during a battle. Put them right in front of your infantry, have them fire at the enemy mass, and then rush your infantry forward when the enemy comes to counterattack.
top 5 times legend of total war has said 'anyway' in a top 5 video
I've found that the best use of the wooden cannons in FOTS is to use them against horses, I've managed to rack up some decent kills by using them on saber cavalry and the like. They're also useful for forcing a defending army with no artillery to attack, thus allowing you to fight the battle on your terms.
Top 5 historical factions you want to see in total war
Habsburgggg
I agree with everything BUT the flaming mangonel. I love that thing. You simply need to know how to use it. For starters, you need to fire it long before the enemy comes close to your troops. You're keeping it so far away from your front line. And try using multiple mangonels targeting a single area, like supporting fire. Bring less troops, with less, multiple enemy units tend to target a few units closer to them,-cluster. Also try clustering the enemy by checkerboarding your units on the flanks forward rather than keep them all in one line. By counterflanking your unit from the center they oddly don't bother running all the way around so they end up clustering. You can also try targeting all the proper units while they move to increase accuracy. Mangonels are like flying sky minefields, or.....mineskies? They have a large area which is what hit your units in the video. Proper usage reduces chances of friendly fire so hard that some rare friendly fire is ok compared to damage it does.Interestingly, proper enemy unit targeting can also increase reliability where and when it will explode. It's hard to explain in words what units you should target, you simply have to see the opportunities and take them, call the shots properly. For me they're a godsend. No trebuchets, no catapults, no ballistas, just good ol mangonels.
So I have 765 Hours in Rome 2 and I didn't even know the Beehive Onager was a thing that existed.... That's how incredibly awful it is...
I have played Rtw 1 for more hours than i can count on one and only now I realize you can switch around retainers! Wtf me! XD
i bought the dlc and never recruited one actually i don't even know the building chain to hire them
Yea i guess if you charge in elephant and giant first they suck. Or use them with some slight intelligence and use your infantry first before using them as a support on your flanks.
I support this.
TOP 5 Total War Intros ! (Including expansions)
The air is filled with smoke and blood......
"In the shade of olive trees, they said Italy could never be conquered"
You can use the Mangonels on a defensive siege to great effect against horse factions ( the Mongols). Block City center with spear units. Mangonel very close behind it. Fire at Mongols charging down the lane. I took down 2 and half stacks of Mongols with a half stack of units. Only lost because spears finally broke.
what did you say about beehive the BEST unit in all of total war
It's good to see another Total War Top 5, I really enjoy learning about the other games in the series.
Top 5 AI's in Total War.
1. empire tw
2. medieval tw
3. three kingdoms tw.
4. rome1 tw
5. shogun1 tw
1. Shogun 1
2. Shogun 2
3. Medieval 1
4. Medieval 2
5. Medieval 3
@@MrLhxD Medieval 3??
@@bobthetop3242 I could agree to that list.
Mangonels are a fantastic unit - treat them like cannons in Empire/Napolean in that you leave a gap in your line for them to fit in and use a fair few units of them. Then sit back and watch over half the enemy cook to raining fire before they get within melee range!
NO NOT THE BEE[hive onagers]!
The best way to use the mangonel in a battle is to adopt a defensive stance and have it right behind your infantry. When the melee begins (or when the enemy is close enough that you might get friendly fire), turn off fire at will and manually target the enemy archers. This way friendly fire is minimized. They can also be useful when you're defending in a siege; they're great for setting siege equipment on fire and they can do serious damage to bunched up enemies in the streets. That said, they're definitely not worth putting in an army you are planning on invading an enemy with as they're pretty useless in any offensive capacity. The only real reason to recruit one is to pull a defense together when better units are unavailable because of the unit pool system.
The beehive onager isn’t effective in general but thank god the effect isn’t permanent. Look at poison archers in Attila.
"How many of you can honestly say you've used a beehive onager?"
"I didnt even know they existed..."
5 most team killing troops in total war
I played the Baltic campaign a lot, as Teutons, mangonels were ok, as long as you used them to pepper the enemy from afar. Friendly fire only becomes an issue when the enemy gets close to you but this is where missile troops come into equation, only mortars are useful artillery for close combat, almost all other artillery stops being useful when the enemy is closer than 100 m.
Top 5 best looking but somewhat useless units.
Gothic knights
@@igoralekseyev3347 All 2H units in MTW2. Varangian guard? Blows. Zweihänder and Forlorn Hope? Suck. Dismounted English knights? Can't kill shit. Those Danish guys in full plate armour with halberds described as "deadly, professional troops"? Good for nothing.
Personally in my eyes the Mangonel in Medieval 2 is not disappointing by a long shot, that thing has given me enough laughs seeing both the mine and the enemy's armies wiped out from Mangonel fire to make up for any cost.
I was dissapointed by rome 2 :// I can watch battles from Pixelated Apollo, but i rather buy and play rome 1 myself :D
same here
Pretty much agree. The only way to fix the artillery units is to use them as front line and let incantry move ahead when the enemy is close. Kinda an archer killer but the management and the limited use is a no go.
And about the giants. Maybe you should use them as in the LOTR movies. You know, playing drums or pulling stuff (lausy expensive cows)
But then the footage for the beehive onager shows a few units breaking before they got into battle.. That's kinda opposite of disappointing.
My thoughts excactly!
Imagine stacking that with flaming or whistling shot
The thing about mangonels in M2:TW is that their fuse is VERY unreliable (that's what too much realism does), so it's a poor choice to use as a long-range artillery in open-field battles. There's a niche that you can use it, which is in defensive sieges. Just park a few militia units in one of the paths leading to the city square with a mangonel unit just distant enough to arc the shots, wait for the enemy to send every single unit to try to push through and when the blob is filled up, shoot in the middle of the it. The barrels don't need to explode mid-air, a hit will result in a powerful explosion that will wipe anything close to it (that includes enemy generals). One salvo, under right circumstances, can rival a good Wind of Death.
Too 5 most op units. Number 1 Greek fire throwers medieval 2 crusades
Clibinarii Immortals from Barbarian Invasion and any berserker unit from Rome TW/BI.
5 best battle maps of your top 5 maps throughout all total war games (can include historical battles and any multiplayer or single player map)
Top 5 legendary lord in Warhammer
Tyrion is the best boi
everyone does that
@@indrickboreale7381 Grimgor would like a word with you.
Gotta be Karl Franz if you tank him up in the early turns
You're right on the beehive onager. Don't forget how it's also locked behind a siege engineer's workshop..... something you probably won't build until midgame.
Top 5 worst Legendary Lords - Tw Warhammer
Mangonels work well if you position them right being your infantry line. Obviously a thin line charged by heavy cavalry could result in the crew getting distracted, but the ammo is limited by the time that happens they're usually out anyway. They're incredibly effective defending bridges right behind a pike block. I've had good luck with mortars in bridge defenses as well, cannon just don't work like they do in the early modern games, but the mangonel can just incinerate packed masses of Infantry in the right context.
Mangonels are also pretty good in siege defenses. Catapults as is are godlike in them, but when the enemy is massing in the streets Mangonels have a nice firing arc that allow them to do a lot of damage wherever the enemy is. Catapults though need a straight city street or have the enemy right in front of them to be effective.
Most disappointing unit: my family
My pick for medieval 2's worst is the Forlorn Hope. half-strength (but still only has 1hp), 2-handed bug, and a whopping 620 to recruit and 250 upkeep.
I've never used the mangonels, so I didn't realize how bad they were. It seems like you could put them at the front, fire a volley or two, and then just have the crew run away.
Mangonels are pretty good but they have to be positioned and used right. Youll want them immediately behind your front like, literaly touching your infantry and that will completely keep you sage from friendly fire. That removes its special micro need. It is also nice at picking of units hiding behind walls in sieges. In single player it also counts as a wallbreaker for auto resolve so all in all it is not that baf and rather fun. It is early campaign and for its price it delivers good value. It simple fits another niche than most arty
silver shield swordsmen in rome 2. one of the (for me) most iconic units of the time and they are pretty much just the same as every other faction has at that tier.
Incendiary pigs from the original Rome should have been in here. You have to wait so damn long to unlock them, they sound awesome but actually they do nothing whatsoever.
Also worth mentioning stealth units (like Arcani in RTW or battlefield ninjas in S2TW) which seem awesome but mostly just die because they're so few in number. Not to say that they aren't useful (ninjas can be devastating if used well and supported by a bit of luck) but they're much worse than they seem and tend to get spotted and overwhelmed by some random unit before they get to ambush a high value target.
The Arcani can be really good though
Is that so? I never found a use for them.
I only use elephants as a specialized shock unit, ideally with some surprise, like shock cavalry, to destroy an enemy's rear or break their heavy infantry flanks, after a battle is well under way and the enemy's missile units are already engaged.
I love the mangonel, they are particularly useful when defending in a siege. Put all ur soldiers in the town square facing the attackers and I often put a mangonel and a catapult right behind them. Wait for the enemy to bunch up and unleash the fury of the mangonel. One shot can take out an entire squad, this is how I defend against the Mongols and Timurids
One of the few channels that uses a clickbait thumbnail, but still pulls off being a great video, making you not care about the clickbait thumbnail by the time you reach a minute in.
I will say one thing in defence of the wooden cannons, because of their high arc of fire they are perfect for sniping enemy artillery when defending a siege.
Top 5 beast units eg dragons from war Hammer
(Ik this is really 2 title centric but it’s something cool you could do war elephants tho aswell ik you covered a few of them in this video but a dedicated one would be pretty cool)
i use mangonels but i dont keep it that far apart from my units to avoid friendly fire and they actually helped me a lot routing a bunch of enemy units before they clash into mine
Mangonells are incredibly usefull specially for seiges and chokepoijts they one me many battles especially when defending gates
Fun thing, I actually got a Wooden Cannon in Fall of the Samurai to rank 9, and it had pretty good kills, though it was in a castle, and I usually targeted the generals with it if I could.
I am happy to report that with the latest patch (6/20/2020), giants have actually gotten much better. They still get wrecked by arrow fire, but not as much as before
Even though it is cheap, I always found the burning pigs from Rome 1 absolutely disapointing and useless. They are only useful in very specific situations (against elephants that are on top of your army), one shot only and as stated the elephants literally have to be standing on.your guys to have an opportunity to work. Plus the fact all is does is make them rampage so it's only effective if some how you manage to get these incredibly vulnerable troops away from your force, have them survive, and then hope the pigs don't just run away from the elephants before they impact them.
I love your videos , keep it up and your opinion about units , factions ,..... etc is very important Because your are a true LEGEND 👍🏻
The Mangonel is quite good if you are able to use it the right way.
I would have agreed with the inclusion of mangonels on this list until I figured out how to use them effectively. Just don't put any of your own troops in front of them. Stick friendly troops immediately behind them instead. If they get overrun the crew can disengage and fall back until after the melee is over.
Their accuracy improves with experience and it isn't difficult to get experience if you use them to clear breaches or defend bridges.
I do think they should have been given alternate stone shot ammo, so they could be used to batter fortifications as well. That's usually how they were used, and I don't think it would make them OP.
I geuss you can say it depends on how you use those units. For example the Giants. I'd have a cavalry unit occupy the archers while the Giants take on the main bulk of the army. Archers can't fire volleys if they're occupied fighting cav.
I would have included a slot for Shogun 2 Heroes. All 3 campaigns. A handful of them are okay at best. But in reality theyre all extremely high tier units with troop sizes really small, limited to 1 per unit and use cases so niche that you could go your entire campaign ignoring them and be losing out on basically nothing. Not to mention a large amount of them are also locked behind a dlc paywall the same as the beehive onager.