I may have forgotten to clarify that Zack's beliefs and ideals, throughout Crisis Core (and in Rebirth as well), are challenged. Yet, at the end of the day, he stands his ground and doesn't give up despite the adversities he faces. I'll also leave here a couple of links about Zack Fair: Why Zack is our boy - th-cam.com/video/uZIffGLXJKU/w-d-xo.html Zack Fair "The Planet's Secret Weapon against Sephiroth" - th-cam.com/video/3hkniSPqdgQ/w-d-xo.html Don't forget to subscribe! Hope you have a good day Take care
An editorial from long, long ago answered this question far better than I could. If anyone bothers to take the time to read it. "The journals in the adjacent library provide our explanation. I must infer that most gamers did not take the initiative to search the bookcases in the back. They describe the escape and subsequent pursuit, but they also show that while Zack did not experience a reaction to JENOVA treatment, Cloud did. We discover that the soldiers let Cloud go, (they say he “escaped” in the report), because of his “diminishing consciousness.” He’s not considered a threat, because his treatment was incomplete. (Didn’t you ever wonder why Cloud had glowing eyes, even though he was never a SOLDIER? There’s your answer.) Here’s the clincher-Cloud never “thinks” he’s Zack, at least not in the conscious sense. He is subjected to experimentation that leaves him physically and mentally instable. We have no idea how long he was kept in the basement, so there’s no real way of measuring the damage done. And unlike Zack, Cloud has a reaction to JENOVA-in fact, he’s SO reactive that Hojo takes him to Phase II of the experimentation! (Unfortunately, Phase III grants stability and conscious control over the JENOVA-and Cloud escaped before he could be given the third injection.) But there’s still one question left unanswered. Why is Cloud able to reject Sephiroth’s control at the end of the game, if it wasn’t simply psychological? Our answer lies in the northern crater. After Cloud collapses when he realized he cannot remember how he joined SOLDIER, Ultima Weapon wakes up and starts going berserk. This causes the crater to collapse, and the companions barely escape-Cloud does not. The party flees, and eventually makes its way to Mideel, where they find Cloud washed up on shore, babbling incoherently. (Hmm... does this seem familiar?) When Tifa takes him to the resident doctor, he’s diagnosed with Mako poisoning. In fact, it’s so severe that the doctor says Cloud should not have survived. Now, Cloud is one tough SOB, but that’s not why he pulls through. He already had Mako in his bloodstream from the earlier experiments. News flash, ladies and gents: Cloud just got his third injection. This has devastating psychological implications. Now that the haze over Cloud’s memories has been lifted, he’s presented with two contradictory memories: reality, and the illusion his mind crafted in order to make sense of the world. Cloud is torn between the two, and that is why the memory sequence with Tifa is necessary. She helps him piece his world back together-especially after JENOVA shattered Cloud’s self-image by controlling his incomplete cells. But this is all possible because he’s chemically stable. From this point on, we see a marked change in Cloud’s behavior. He refuses Sephiroth’s (and thus JENOVA’s) control because on a molecular level, he is finally able to reject outside influence."
Very interesring thank you, this is only part of the mystery though, so many other questions still persist around this man. For example, in the Nibelhiem reactor he is able to creep up on Sephiroth AND survive the confrontation, also depending on weather its crisis core anime or original story, we see cloud having the ability to best Sephiroth in a 1v1 and cast him into the lifestream (Crisis Core has Sephiroth decide to jump in himself which is significant in its own rite). Now ive heard people say cloud was able to creep up on Seph there because of pre-emptive strike materia but even that meme doesnt explain how cloud survived being stabbed by him then being able to best him as well, i doubt he had revival earrings equiped xD. All this was before the mansion Hojo evperiments, so what is driving cloud at that point? As a side note the significance of the difference between Seph being thrown into the lifestream or deciding to retreat into it at that point lies in what Sephiroth believed at that time. He (and likely the other characters) was convinced Jenova and therefore himself were Aincients, so jumping into the lifestrem would make sense for him to be returned to the planet and exercise control over it.
@@Mako7eyes Sephiroth canonically doesn't jump on his own in Crisis Core, Cloud throws him in. And the Ultimania says Cloud is able to do that out of sheer rage, which takes away his mental barriers (inhibitions) so that he can use his full strength. It's basically an adrenaline rush and desire of revenge.
@@laurajanco2i apologies, i didnt mean crisis core i meant the last order anime, in that Seph is cradling Jenovas head as he jumps in. Thanks for the ultimania info though, i suppose that makes sense but kinda puts an end to fun wild speculations xD
Cloud's Mako eyes are new to after he got experimented on by Hojo in Crisis Core. Before Nibleheim incident, he got his natural blue eyes, not Mako eyes. That's why in Rebirth Zack looks into Cloud's eyes when he's in suspended animation state, and comments on it. Zack saw the change in Cloud's eyes, indicating that now he's also an enhanced Mako infused warrior. That Mako infusion is also what makes Cloud mentally deteriorating, and become weaken for long while needing to be saved by Zack...because Mako injection can cause Mako poisoning. Remember Jessie's dad who got into a coma due to Mako poisoning? Exactly. As for the reason why Zack is not affected by Jenova cell he got after Nibleheim (before Nibleheim, he got no Jenova cell at all, just standard Mako infusion like most SOLDIERs), it's plain and simple because of his already strong mental fortitude. Even during Nibleheim incident, he already got the same or stronger mental fortitude as Dirge of Cerberus's Cloud. Growing into having a strong enough mental fortitude to not fell victim to Jenova cells influences is quite literally what Cloud's journey is all about. After Advent Children, Cloud is truly become more like Zack is at the end of Crisis Core.
@@zarioblack well, I'm talking about mental age 😂 There are a lot of 40 years old with teenager mentality as well. You being 26 is not nearly as shameful as you might think it is to still have traces of teenager like mindset and mentality. People growing up at different paces with each others.
This is one of the best videos for understanding Zack’s character. Fans who haven’t played Crisis Core often don’t realize just how important he is. I was the same way until I played Crisis Core, and boy oh boy Zack became my no.1 all-time favorite Final Fantasy character. Next comes Sephiroth, Angeal, and Genesis-the real 4 First Class SOLDIERs.
Just a few corrections, Zack's cells are dormant and he has no connection with Sephiroth because the experiments on him failed and he could withstand them after already being injected with an initial dose of mako, therefore Cloud is actually the only one who's actually fighting to resist Jenova's hold and who's affected by Sephiroth's control. Cloud is not going through cellular degradation (if that's what you were hinting at), because his cells are different from those of the other robed men, so his lifespan won't be influenced and he'll live like a normal person. I believe Zack is so strong mentally because of his peaceful and supportive upbringing, especially after getting to know more about his hometown in Rebirth and how many people have been close to him while growing up, even during his period in Soldier, while Cloud has gone through way too much since his childhood all alone and he never received the support and help he needed and deserved. His mother and Tifa were the sole consolations of his heart and even then he never felt allowed to show vulnerability, his only goal was to protect them and that's what Cloud has always fought for. He just wanted to be strong enough to be able to protect his loved ones, so they would not get hurt the way it happened to Tifa, but his internalized failures kept holding him down, making him think he was powerless and inferior, not because of the competition in Soldier. It started from his childhood all the way to adulthood, he never got a break. That's why he joined Soldier, he didn't have selfish reasons, he didn't want to be famous or important unlike some people think, he wanted to be good enough, surely to impress Tifa too (who was more than a crush), but part of it was trauma and mostly because he wanted to be a hero for those he considered his family. I believe the main difference between Zack and Cloud, is that Zack draws his determination from inside, from his honor and dreams, while Cloud draws his determination from the will to protect those who are dear to him, from their safety and from the emotional support of those who love him. The way he says in the original, you need to have a reason to go on, beyond saving the planet, something personal that you are willing to risk your life for, your own reason to fight. I always saw Zack as Cloud's role model, someone who doesn't waver, someone to look up to, who wears a smile in the direst situation, while Cloud for me is determination despite the odds and the struggles, finding ones identity, acceptance of yourself, your weaknesses and symbol of healing and finding one's individual strength. I admit I don't relate to Zack as much as I do with Cloud, but he's an cool character as well. I'd say they're two faces of the same coin and couldn't be who they are without each other.
Well said. In regards to the cellular degradation topic, it was to point out how Zack had no indication of degrading (even after being incubated in a tube for 4 years, and further experimented) despite that being the most common cause of death by far for Soldier members. In Cloud's case, I would even argue that his lifespan increased.
@@The_Mammal_Man I don't think cellular degradation works like that, it's a long time process that so far we have seen only in Soldiers past their 20s or in their late 20s and Zack had basically just got his Soldier 1st class shot before the Nibelheim incident (1 yeat before or so). When it comes to the experiments, I wonder if they erased that factor from him before his death, since the cells injected in him were the same as Cloud's, but at the same time they were nullified by his first shot. I also don't know if Cloud's lifespan increased, I've never heard of that possibility, but the black robed men are basically like zombies right? We know they're all gonna die at the Northern Crater because of Sephiroth, but I wonder if they would have kept roaming around and living forever without his input, because Jenova is powerful, but I don't know if she can influence the physical body in that way.
It's a possibility. There's no confirmation that his lifespan increased of course. This is my assumption from seeing how Lucrecia, when Hojo injected her with jenova cells (after Sephiroth was born), survived around 30 years without eating anything (in the cave that can only be accessed with the submarine back at the OG FF7). And from what I remember she still retained her youth.
Zack is the epitome of the definition of SOLDIER and he is not about to let anyone or anything come between his dreams and honor to the point not even the strong will of jenova cells can control him I gotta feeling hes going to be the ace in the hole nobody calculated for cloud because hes unpredictable even to sephiroth and his whispers
Zack's unpredictability to Sephiroth and his purple black Whispers is mostly thanks to the ghost of future OG variant of Aerith who controls white Whispers. It's very likely that OG Aerith is the one who time skipped Zack into the future of one of the doomed branch of timeline. She's likely also responsible for saving and displacing Biggs into that same doomed timeline, for whatever purpose.
I just played through crisis core for the first time about a year ago. What a great game, but i really appreciated learning about Zack and the other characters. Zack is a true hero
Zack was always my favorite FF7 character who's always been more of a true hero at heart and I'm glad what happened to him has now been changed in this remake. Anyway I say Zack has a more stronger will than Cloud and that's why he was immune to what Hojo did to them.
I think it was harder for Jenova to keep her grip on Cloud, because he had ran into a group of people he clicked with. Which started to make him more happy... Cloud growing up was a loner & felt like a outcast. In FF7, he had found a group of people that accepted him. I think Zack was just too much of a joyful person to control
This is the reality of Zack's character. He is the prodigy, and literally the actual hero of light in FF7. He is the true champion who has all the skill, power, courage and ideals, but thru tragic circumstances does not become the story's primary hero. In FF7, Zack is instead the symbol that motivates Cloud's subconscious. People think it is Sephiroth that Cloud imitates, but the truth is that in the main journey of FF7 Cloud is living under the illusion that he had the successful SOLDIER career that Zack had. And after he recovers his true memories, Cloud is trying to become the hero that Zack was for him.
Zack has G (Genesis which oddly enough cured degradation) Cells which actually makes his more susceptible to the Degradation yet S (Sephiroth) at least in Rebirth has Hijacked it for Reunion Cells.
Cause plot holes. He was meant to be dead in og 7. Hence one reason fans are divided Saying " hes mentally strong" shows how stupid people are. I love FF7 but retcon plotholes outside od the OG are why people just dont give a shit anymore. Hence the sales
You're mistaken about one thing, Jenova cell is not part of the standard procedure for every SOLDIERs. The standard procedure is only Mako infusion. And that Mako infusion is also what make people like Cloud was initially considered as unfit, as he didn't have enough mental fortitude to counter the Mako poisoning. Lots of SOLDIERs, including Zack, are actually only undergoing Mako infusion without any added Jenova cells. That's why even people like Kuhn is still fine in the OG/Remake timeline. That's also why Zack is being fine as well. That's also why we see Roche suddenly turned into one of Sephiroth's "black cloaks" on the Rebirth, because the S-Type Jenova cell is really only recently added to him. It truly shows how strong Zack really is, considering that he's the only known to become First Class without Jenova cell. Now talking after Nibleheim, it's true that there is high likelihood that he also got Jenova cell along with Cloud. That's likely why he became strong enough to single handedly beat Genesis, who rivals even Sephiroth, in Crisis Core. The reason why even then he's not turning into black robe is actually a very simple one, and already answered by OG and AC Cloud...he got truly strong mental fortitude, he's basically already at the same strong mental fortitude Cloud is in after Advent Children. That's same mental fortitude is likely also why he became First Class without Jenova cell to begin with. That's why, I do think that now that he's alive in the Rebirth, he's probably one of the strongest Ex-SOLDIER in the story. Because now he got Jenova cells in him, and he already have the strong mental fortitude of Cloud during Dirge of Cerberus. I'd say that in Rebirth, Zack is at least already rivaling or stronger than OG Sephiroth.
All SOLDIERs have Jenova cells. As far as I understand, there are no exceptions to this. Cloud in the OGFF7 (in the same scene that is shown at 1:15 ) explains to the group that Soldiers aren't only exposed to mako, they are also injected with Jenova cells into their bodies. The public thinks it's only mako, but in reality is a little different than that.
@@The_Mammal_Man nope, only selected SOLDIERs have Jenova cells within them. And even those who got Jenova cells within them are separated into two variants, S-Type (Sephiroth based) and G-Type (Genesis based). There are also select few who got Chaos element in them instead, like Weiss and Nero. So, there currently are four types of known SOLDIERs: Standard Mako Enhanced, S-Type Mako Enhanced, G-Type Mako Enhanced, and Chaos Mako Enhanced. All G-Type deteriorate and turned into monsters, including Angeal and the Director of SOLDIER. All S-Type receivers turned into black robe and potential vessels for Sephiroth to take over. Most still existing SOLDIERs that are still sane and serving Shinra, including Kuhn, are Standard Mako Enhanced only. They have no Jenova cells within them whatsoever. Their only problem is Mako poisoning their body had to endure. None of them, aside from Zack, in known lore ever made it into First Class. And they can still be matched and overpowered by strong normal people like some high profile Avalanche members. Roche who is a new named character in Remake was also a Standard Mako Enhanced, who after losing twice to Cloud, asked Hojo for whatever procedure that can make him stronger. Hojo gave him S-Type Jenova cell. He fight Cloud again and lose for the last time in Rebirth, which mentally broke him down, and expedited his turn into a Black Robe Sephiroth vessel. Roche is a Third Class, and Kuhn is a Second Class, which further tells that Kuhn being his senior still sane and serving Shinra further proven that he's not getting any of the Jenova cella variants. Now Zack, just like Roche, he was initially a Mako Enhanced only SOLDIER. He got the Jenova cell after Nibleheim, alongside Cloud. The reason why he's generally unaffected by it is because of his already mentally strong state. The reason why Sephiroth never tried to take him over in the OG is because Cloud is deemed a physically more potential vessel and Zack died in the OG. The reason why Sephiroth didn't seem to be interested in trying to take over Zack, again because of Cloud's better physical potential, and because Sephiroth during Remake already know the impossibility of taking over such a mentally strong person from his experience with Advent Children Cloud. Btw, the most successful special cased SOLDIERs project are actually Weiss and Nero from Deepground's SOLDIERs, who are injected with Chaos dna instead of Jenova Cell. Vincent is also receiver of Chaos dna, but without the Mako infusion.
@@The_Mammal_Man btw, fun fact, Avalanche was founded by members of P0 SOLDIERs, who are defecting after some missions. Those P0 SOLDIERs are not even Mako enhanced.
@AtriasNaradan I assume this info is from Ever Crisis and DoC... Guess they are indeed exceptions. Do you have a source that explains Zack(before nibelheim) and standard Soldier from all classes, never were injected with jenova cells?
@@The_Mammal_Man I'm a story and lore andy I've followed and read almost everything regarding Final Fantasy VII series, from OG to Rebirth. I even know that there are standard SOLDIERs who got caught by Avalanche and get experimented on. The fact about standard SOLDIERs not being Jenova cell injected at all can be found all over, with Rebirth Roche case being one of the most recent showing of the fact. I also know that Cloud was also one of those who is unknowingly already strong as fuck even before he got Mako injection and S-Type Jenova cell. He subconsciously killed two relatively strong Avalanche members at once in a flash with a Sword during one his Shinra Guard era. You know when Cloud is seemingly only swinging his sword once but create two slices? He's unconsciously capable of that when he was still a normal Shinra Guard...it was witnessed by an unnamed Turk member who was there with him (the Turk member is actually a player character). In a lot of way, it shows that what Zack achieved without Jenova cell is not something that's unprecedented. Deepground SOLDIER like Weiss and Nero not having Jenova cells, and instead injected with the same Chaos dna that Vincent have, are explained in Dirge of Cerberus. All Tsviets members in Dirge of Cerberus, some rivalling even Dirge of Cerberus era Cloud, are not Jenova cells receivers. The only thing I newly learned from Ever Crisis is about the existence of non-Mako enhanced P0 SOLDIERs, who are also supposedly founding members of Avalanche.
Jenova felt Cloud was strong deep down but mentality weak. He became the pefect choice for her. Out of all the towns people infected, she knew he would be the only one strong enough to adventure out and grab the black materia
its fun to pretend but im scared they'll just reck con all the "chance to change the past" stuff in part 3 and leave us in the same spot. i''ll meet you all back here after that to form a support group
That is a possibility, yes. (there's even hints for that in Rebirth, like Red's conversation with Cloud at the Saucer date) I hope that is not the case for part 3. We go to all that trouble to try and change things, just so we go back to square one? For that, we could just play OGFF7 again.
Zacks will just overpowers Seph and Jenova. He cannot be influenced. His will is so powerful that he’s able to create so many different worlds based on his decisions in Rebirth
Cloud has Zack cells no doubt. Remember him recalling the squats in the Nibalheim mission? Also some of the lines he said were Zacks. So Zack is still living still well his Zack cells are keeeping him alive. Cloud with Zack and Sephiroth cells is the perfect monster but a good one.
thats why hes not like squalls training at young age and mentally tough hes just following orders of the Garden, compare to clouds personas hes aquired to zacks personality. hes stealing identity. feeling hes cool, while squalls abandonment he would be more reliable as a SeeD mercenary.
Dont think he is inmune he just died before he got the effects. He also has a much stronger naturel body then cloud has and a happy jullie nature which also helps
Zack was too pure to & positive for Jenova to speak to. Cloud was already living in hatred because he disliked the other kids in his home town. Just my guess
Do keep in mind that Zack didn't live long according to the OG and CC story lines. As such, it could be assumed that Sephiroth didn't have enough time to start manipulating Zack's mind the was he was able to with Cloud.
Zack’s too simpleminded to control. He doesn’t succumb to angst the way Sephiroth, Angeal and Genesis do because he’s not smart enough to think beyond his immediate goals. Nor does he stress about how other people see him the way Cloud and Sephiroth do. Like Angeal said he’s a puppy and has that sort of exuberant simple-minded puppy personality.
@@TravaillesDuChanson What's the point of your comment? We all know it's their opinion because it comes from their account. Every comment is an opinion or thought. That's just common sense.
I may have forgotten to clarify that Zack's beliefs and ideals, throughout Crisis Core (and in Rebirth as well), are challenged. Yet, at the end of the day, he stands his ground and doesn't give up despite the adversities he faces.
I'll also leave here a couple of links about Zack Fair:
Why Zack is our boy - th-cam.com/video/uZIffGLXJKU/w-d-xo.html
Zack Fair "The Planet's Secret Weapon against Sephiroth" - th-cam.com/video/3hkniSPqdgQ/w-d-xo.html
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Take care
What can I say. Gongaga genes are blessed
It's the Gongaga mushrooms he's eaten throughout the years along with all the intensive training.
It was pretty cool to learn about his "secret" training that he did as a kid, before he joined Soldier.
It shows how much he really wanted it
An editorial from long, long ago answered this question far better than I could. If anyone bothers to take the time to read it.
"The journals in the adjacent library provide our explanation. I must infer that most gamers did not take the initiative to search the bookcases in the back. They describe the escape and subsequent pursuit, but they also show that while Zack did not experience a reaction to JENOVA treatment, Cloud did. We discover that the soldiers let Cloud go, (they say he “escaped” in the report), because of his “diminishing consciousness.” He’s not considered a threat, because his treatment was incomplete. (Didn’t you ever wonder why Cloud had glowing eyes, even though he was never a SOLDIER? There’s your answer.)
Here’s the clincher-Cloud never “thinks” he’s Zack, at least not in the conscious sense. He is subjected to experimentation that leaves him physically and mentally instable. We have no idea how long he was kept in the basement, so there’s no real way of measuring the damage done. And unlike Zack, Cloud has a reaction to JENOVA-in fact, he’s SO reactive that Hojo takes him to Phase II of the experimentation! (Unfortunately, Phase III grants stability and conscious control over the JENOVA-and Cloud escaped before he could be given the third injection.)
But there’s still one question left unanswered. Why is Cloud able to reject Sephiroth’s control at the end of the game, if it wasn’t simply psychological?
Our answer lies in the northern crater. After Cloud collapses when he realized he cannot remember how he joined SOLDIER, Ultima Weapon wakes up and starts going berserk. This causes the crater to collapse, and the companions barely escape-Cloud does not. The party flees, and eventually makes its way to Mideel, where they find Cloud washed up on shore, babbling incoherently. (Hmm... does this seem familiar?) When Tifa takes him to the resident doctor, he’s diagnosed with Mako poisoning. In fact, it’s so severe that the doctor says Cloud should not have survived. Now, Cloud is one tough SOB, but that’s not why he pulls through. He already had Mako in his bloodstream from the earlier experiments. News flash, ladies and gents: Cloud just got his third injection.
This has devastating psychological implications. Now that the haze over Cloud’s memories has been lifted, he’s presented with two contradictory memories: reality, and the illusion his mind crafted in order to make sense of the world. Cloud is torn between the two, and that is why the memory sequence with Tifa is necessary. She helps him piece his world back together-especially after JENOVA shattered Cloud’s self-image by controlling his incomplete cells. But this is all possible because he’s chemically stable. From this point on, we see a marked change in Cloud’s behavior. He refuses Sephiroth’s (and thus JENOVA’s) control because on a molecular level, he is finally able to reject outside influence."
Very interesring thank you, this is only part of the mystery though, so many other questions still persist around this man.
For example, in the Nibelhiem reactor he is able to creep up on Sephiroth AND survive the confrontation, also depending on weather its crisis core anime or original story, we see cloud having the ability to best Sephiroth in a 1v1 and cast him into the lifestream (Crisis Core has Sephiroth decide to jump in himself which is significant in its own rite).
Now ive heard people say cloud was able to creep up on Seph there because of pre-emptive strike materia but even that meme doesnt explain how cloud survived being stabbed by him then being able to best him as well, i doubt he had revival earrings equiped xD.
All this was before the mansion Hojo evperiments, so what is driving cloud at that point?
As a side note the significance of the difference between Seph being thrown into the lifestream or deciding to retreat into it at that point lies in what Sephiroth believed at that time. He (and likely the other characters) was convinced Jenova and therefore himself were Aincients, so jumping into the lifestrem would make sense for him to be returned to the planet and exercise control over it.
@@Mako7eyes Sephiroth canonically doesn't jump on his own in Crisis Core, Cloud throws him in. And the Ultimania says Cloud is able to do that out of sheer rage, which takes away his mental barriers (inhibitions) so that he can use his full strength. It's basically an adrenaline rush and desire of revenge.
@@laurajanco2i apologies, i didnt mean crisis core i meant the last order anime, in that Seph is cradling Jenovas head as he jumps in.
Thanks for the ultimania info though, i suppose that makes sense but kinda puts an end to fun wild speculations xD
Cloud's Mako eyes are new to after he got experimented on by Hojo in Crisis Core.
Before Nibleheim incident, he got his natural blue eyes, not Mako eyes. That's why in Rebirth Zack looks into Cloud's eyes when he's in suspended animation state, and comments on it. Zack saw the change in Cloud's eyes, indicating that now he's also an enhanced Mako infused warrior.
That Mako infusion is also what makes Cloud mentally deteriorating, and become weaken for long while needing to be saved by Zack...because Mako injection can cause Mako poisoning. Remember Jessie's dad who got into a coma due to Mako poisoning? Exactly.
As for the reason why Zack is not affected by Jenova cell he got after Nibleheim (before Nibleheim, he got no Jenova cell at all, just standard Mako infusion like most SOLDIERs), it's plain and simple because of his already strong mental fortitude. Even during Nibleheim incident, he already got the same or stronger mental fortitude as Dirge of Cerberus's Cloud. Growing into having a strong enough mental fortitude to not fell victim to Jenova cells influences is quite literally what Cloud's journey is all about. After Advent Children, Cloud is truly become more like Zack is at the end of Crisis Core.
I recall it was at least 2 years that passed according to the game. He remembers 5 years, but he was gone 7.
Cloud is the character we relate to while Zack is the character we strive to become.
Wrong, I can't relate to Cloud at all 😂
@@AtriasNaradan That’s you, bro. At least 5 people, 6 including myself, relate 😂
@@empty_melodies so, that makes it one adult vs six edgy teenagers. Hardly surprising at all 😂
@@AtriasNaradanDayaum I'm 26 man that hurts 😅
@@zarioblack well, I'm talking about mental age 😂
There are a lot of 40 years old with teenager mentality as well. You being 26 is not nearly as shameful as you might think it is to still have traces of teenager like mindset and mentality. People growing up at different paces with each others.
I love Cloud BUT we can't deny that Zack is an important piece in FF7 story. My boy deserves more recognition.
Cloud & Zack, the best buds of FF7
This is one of the best videos for understanding Zack’s character. Fans who haven’t played Crisis Core often don’t realize just how important he is.
I was the same way until I played Crisis Core, and boy oh boy Zack became my no.1 all-time favorite Final Fantasy character. Next comes Sephiroth, Angeal, and Genesis-the real 4 First Class SOLDIERs.
Just a few corrections, Zack's cells are dormant and he has no connection with Sephiroth because the experiments on him failed and he could withstand them after already being injected with an initial dose of mako, therefore Cloud is actually the only one who's actually fighting to resist Jenova's hold and who's affected by Sephiroth's control.
Cloud is not going through cellular degradation (if that's what you were hinting at), because his cells are different from those of the other robed men, so his lifespan won't be influenced and he'll live like a normal person.
I believe Zack is so strong mentally because of his peaceful and supportive upbringing, especially after getting to know more about his hometown in Rebirth and how many people have been close to him while growing up, even during his period in Soldier, while Cloud has gone through way too much since his childhood all alone and he never received the support and help he needed and deserved. His mother and Tifa were the sole consolations of his heart and even then he never felt allowed to show vulnerability, his only goal was to protect them and that's what Cloud has always fought for.
He just wanted to be strong enough to be able to protect his loved ones, so they would not get hurt the way it happened to Tifa, but his internalized failures kept holding him down, making him think he was powerless and inferior, not because of the competition in Soldier. It started from his childhood all the way to adulthood, he never got a break.
That's why he joined Soldier, he didn't have selfish reasons, he didn't want to be famous or important unlike some people think, he wanted to be good enough, surely to impress Tifa too (who was more than a crush), but part of it was trauma and mostly because he wanted to be a hero for those he considered his family.
I believe the main difference between Zack and Cloud, is that Zack draws his determination from inside, from his honor and dreams, while Cloud draws his determination from the will to protect those who are dear to him, from their safety and from the emotional support of those who love him.
The way he says in the original, you need to have a reason to go on, beyond saving the planet, something personal that you are willing to risk your life for, your own reason to fight.
I always saw Zack as Cloud's role model, someone who doesn't waver, someone to look up to, who wears a smile in the direst situation, while Cloud for me is determination despite the odds and the struggles, finding ones identity, acceptance of yourself, your weaknesses and symbol of healing and finding one's individual strength.
I admit I don't relate to Zack as much as I do with Cloud, but he's an cool character as well. I'd say they're two faces of the same coin and couldn't be who they are without each other.
Well said.
In regards to the cellular degradation topic, it was to point out how Zack had no indication of degrading (even after being incubated in a tube for 4 years, and further experimented) despite that being the most common cause of death by far for Soldier members.
In Cloud's case, I would even argue that his lifespan increased.
@@The_Mammal_Man I don't think cellular degradation works like that, it's a long time process that so far we have seen only in Soldiers past their 20s or in their late 20s and Zack had basically just got his Soldier 1st class shot before the Nibelheim incident (1 yeat before or so).
When it comes to the experiments, I wonder if they erased that factor from him before his death, since the cells injected in him were the same as Cloud's, but at the same time they were nullified by his first shot.
I also don't know if Cloud's lifespan increased, I've never heard of that possibility, but the black robed men are basically like zombies right? We know they're all gonna die at the Northern Crater because of Sephiroth, but I wonder if they would have kept roaming around and living forever without his input, because Jenova is powerful, but I don't know if she can influence the physical body in that way.
It's a possibility. There's no confirmation that his lifespan increased of course.
This is my assumption from seeing how Lucrecia, when Hojo injected her with jenova cells (after Sephiroth was born), survived around 30 years without eating anything (in the cave that can only be accessed with the submarine back at the OG FF7). And from what I remember she still retained her youth.
Zack is the epitome of the definition of SOLDIER and he is not about to let anyone or anything come between his dreams and honor to the point not even the strong will of jenova cells can control him
I gotta feeling hes going to be the ace in the hole nobody calculated for cloud because hes unpredictable even to sephiroth and his whispers
Zack's unpredictability to Sephiroth and his purple black Whispers is mostly thanks to the ghost of future OG variant of Aerith who controls white Whispers.
It's very likely that OG Aerith is the one who time skipped Zack into the future of one of the doomed branch of timeline. She's likely also responsible for saving and displacing Biggs into that same doomed timeline, for whatever purpose.
Zack is like the perfect oldest brother which every members of your family can count on. Every little bro wants to grow up like him.
I just played through crisis core for the first time about a year ago. What a great game, but i really appreciated learning about Zack and the other characters. Zack is a true hero
Zack was always my favorite FF7 character who's always been more of a true hero at heart and I'm glad what happened to him has now been changed in this remake. Anyway I say Zack has a more stronger will than Cloud and that's why he was immune to what Hojo did to them.
Zack is the best. I agree.
Because dreams and honor.
He’s HIM
I think it was harder for Jenova to keep her grip on Cloud, because he had ran into a group of people he clicked with. Which started to make him more happy... Cloud growing up was a loner & felt like a outcast. In FF7, he had found a group of people that accepted him. I think Zack was just too much of a joyful person to control
This is the reality of Zack's character. He is the prodigy, and literally the actual hero of light in FF7. He is the true champion who has all the skill, power, courage and ideals, but thru tragic circumstances does not become the story's primary hero. In FF7, Zack is instead the symbol that motivates Cloud's subconscious.
People think it is Sephiroth that Cloud imitates, but the truth is that in the main journey of FF7 Cloud is living under the illusion that he had the successful SOLDIER career that Zack had. And after he recovers his true memories, Cloud is trying to become the hero that Zack was for him.
Agree 👍💯
its because hes HIM
Zack has G (Genesis which oddly enough cured degradation) Cells which actually makes his more susceptible to the Degradation yet S (Sephiroth) at least in Rebirth has Hijacked it for Reunion Cells.
Incorrect.
Zack is confirmed to have s cells.
He is the true protagonist of the series.
In the grand scheme he definitely is.
Cause plot holes. He was meant to be dead in og 7.
Hence one reason fans are divided
Saying " hes mentally strong" shows how stupid people are.
I love FF7 but retcon plotholes outside od the OG are why people just dont give a shit anymore. Hence the sales
You are absolutely true about this
Remake's sales were good and Rebirth is exclusive to ps5 while half the player base is still on ps4.
@@JediKnightoftheTifaCult right. Thats been the excuse since february
You're mistaken about one thing, Jenova cell is not part of the standard procedure for every SOLDIERs. The standard procedure is only Mako infusion. And that Mako infusion is also what make people like Cloud was initially considered as unfit, as he didn't have enough mental fortitude to counter the Mako poisoning.
Lots of SOLDIERs, including Zack, are actually only undergoing Mako infusion without any added Jenova cells. That's why even people like Kuhn is still fine in the OG/Remake timeline. That's also why Zack is being fine as well. That's also why we see Roche suddenly turned into one of Sephiroth's "black cloaks" on the Rebirth, because the S-Type Jenova cell is really only recently added to him. It truly shows how strong Zack really is, considering that he's the only known to become First Class without Jenova cell.
Now talking after Nibleheim, it's true that there is high likelihood that he also got Jenova cell along with Cloud. That's likely why he became strong enough to single handedly beat Genesis, who rivals even Sephiroth, in Crisis Core. The reason why even then he's not turning into black robe is actually a very simple one, and already answered by OG and AC Cloud...he got truly strong mental fortitude, he's basically already at the same strong mental fortitude Cloud is in after Advent Children. That's same mental fortitude is likely also why he became First Class without Jenova cell to begin with.
That's why, I do think that now that he's alive in the Rebirth, he's probably one of the strongest Ex-SOLDIER in the story. Because now he got Jenova cells in him, and he already have the strong mental fortitude of Cloud during Dirge of Cerberus. I'd say that in Rebirth, Zack is at least already rivaling or stronger than OG Sephiroth.
All SOLDIERs have Jenova cells.
As far as I understand, there are no exceptions to this.
Cloud in the OGFF7 (in the same scene that is shown at 1:15 ) explains to the group that Soldiers aren't only exposed to mako, they are also injected with Jenova cells into their bodies.
The public thinks it's only mako, but in reality is a little different than that.
@@The_Mammal_Man nope, only selected SOLDIERs have Jenova cells within them. And even those who got Jenova cells within them are separated into two variants, S-Type (Sephiroth based) and G-Type (Genesis based). There are also select few who got Chaos element in them instead, like Weiss and Nero. So, there currently are four types of known SOLDIERs: Standard Mako Enhanced, S-Type Mako Enhanced, G-Type Mako Enhanced, and Chaos Mako Enhanced.
All G-Type deteriorate and turned into monsters, including Angeal and the Director of SOLDIER. All S-Type receivers turned into black robe and potential vessels for Sephiroth to take over.
Most still existing SOLDIERs that are still sane and serving Shinra, including Kuhn, are Standard Mako Enhanced only. They have no Jenova cells within them whatsoever. Their only problem is Mako poisoning their body had to endure. None of them, aside from Zack, in known lore ever made it into First Class. And they can still be matched and overpowered by strong normal people like some high profile Avalanche members.
Roche who is a new named character in Remake was also a Standard Mako Enhanced, who after losing twice to Cloud, asked Hojo for whatever procedure that can make him stronger. Hojo gave him S-Type Jenova cell. He fight Cloud again and lose for the last time in Rebirth, which mentally broke him down, and expedited his turn into a Black Robe Sephiroth vessel. Roche is a Third Class, and Kuhn is a Second Class, which further tells that Kuhn being his senior still sane and serving Shinra further proven that he's not getting any of the Jenova cella variants.
Now Zack, just like Roche, he was initially a Mako Enhanced only SOLDIER. He got the Jenova cell after Nibleheim, alongside Cloud. The reason why he's generally unaffected by it is because of his already mentally strong state. The reason why Sephiroth never tried to take him over in the OG is because Cloud is deemed a physically more potential vessel and Zack died in the OG. The reason why Sephiroth didn't seem to be interested in trying to take over Zack, again because of Cloud's better physical potential, and because Sephiroth during Remake already know the impossibility of taking over such a mentally strong person from his experience with Advent Children Cloud.
Btw, the most successful special cased SOLDIERs project are actually Weiss and Nero from Deepground's SOLDIERs, who are injected with Chaos dna instead of Jenova Cell. Vincent is also receiver of Chaos dna, but without the Mako infusion.
@@The_Mammal_Man btw, fun fact, Avalanche was founded by members of P0 SOLDIERs, who are defecting after some missions. Those P0 SOLDIERs are not even Mako enhanced.
@AtriasNaradan I assume this info is from Ever Crisis and DoC... Guess they are indeed exceptions.
Do you have a source that explains Zack(before nibelheim) and standard Soldier from all classes, never were injected with jenova cells?
@@The_Mammal_Man I'm a story and lore andy
I've followed and read almost everything regarding Final Fantasy VII series, from OG to Rebirth. I even know that there are standard SOLDIERs who got caught by Avalanche and get experimented on. The fact about standard SOLDIERs not being Jenova cell injected at all can be found all over, with Rebirth Roche case being one of the most recent showing of the fact.
I also know that Cloud was also one of those who is unknowingly already strong as fuck even before he got Mako injection and S-Type Jenova cell. He subconsciously killed two relatively strong Avalanche members at once in a flash with a Sword during one his Shinra Guard era. You know when Cloud is seemingly only swinging his sword once but create two slices? He's unconsciously capable of that when he was still a normal Shinra Guard...it was witnessed by an unnamed Turk member who was there with him (the Turk member is actually a player character). In a lot of way, it shows that what Zack achieved without Jenova cell is not something that's unprecedented.
Deepground SOLDIER like Weiss and Nero not having Jenova cells, and instead injected with the same Chaos dna that Vincent have, are explained in Dirge of Cerberus. All Tsviets members in Dirge of Cerberus, some rivalling even Dirge of Cerberus era Cloud, are not Jenova cells receivers.
The only thing I newly learned from Ever Crisis is about the existence of non-Mako enhanced P0 SOLDIERs, who are also supposedly founding members of Avalanche.
Man, what a great character
Jenova felt Cloud was strong deep down but mentality weak. He became the pefect choice for her. Out of all the towns people infected, she knew he would be the only one strong enough to adventure out and grab the black materia
FF7 was peak FF
its fun to pretend but im scared they'll just reck con all the "chance to change the past" stuff in part 3 and leave us in the same spot. i''ll meet you all back here after that to form a support group
That is a possibility, yes. (there's even hints for that in Rebirth, like Red's conversation with Cloud at the Saucer date)
I hope that is not the case for part 3.
We go to all that trouble to try and change things, just so we go back to square one? For that, we could just play OGFF7 again.
Why is Zack immune to Jenova? Because he’s dead!
Zacks will just overpowers Seph and Jenova. He cannot be influenced. His will is so powerful that he’s able to create so many different worlds based on his decisions in Rebirth
Cloud has Zack cells no doubt. Remember him recalling the squats in the Nibalheim mission? Also some of the lines he said were Zacks. So Zack is still living still well his Zack cells are keeeping him alive. Cloud with Zack and Sephiroth cells is the perfect monster but a good one.
He was travelling to Nibelhelm with Zack and Sephiroth and witnessed it all..Zack genes SMH..
@grimmreaper9402 Hojo knew Zack was special so why not try a unique experiment?
He also beat genesis
thats why hes not like squalls training at young age and mentally tough hes just following orders of the Garden, compare to clouds personas hes aquired to zacks personality. hes stealing identity. feeling hes cool, while squalls abandonment he would be more reliable as a SeeD mercenary.
Dont think he is inmune he just died before he got the effects.
He also has a much stronger naturel body then cloud has and a happy jullie nature which also helps
Zack was too pure to & positive for Jenova to speak to. Cloud was already living in hatred because he disliked the other kids in his home town. Just my guess
Perhaps because he died?
Because he dead?
Zack is HIM, that is why. Cloud is just a weakling
To be fair, Cloud had a harder life than Zack did growing up.
Do keep in mind that Zack didn't live long according to the OG and CC story lines. As such, it could be assumed that Sephiroth didn't have enough time to start manipulating Zack's mind the was he was able to with Cloud.
Zack’s too simpleminded to control. He doesn’t succumb to angst the way Sephiroth, Angeal and Genesis do because he’s not smart enough to think beyond his immediate goals. Nor does he stress about how other people see him the way Cloud and Sephiroth do. Like Angeal said he’s a puppy and has that sort of exuberant simple-minded puppy personality.
Zack is barely a character. FF7 rebootquel is the worst kind of fanfiction.
You're entitled to your opinion
@@TravaillesDuChanson What's the point of your comment? We all know it's their opinion because it comes from their account. Every comment is an opinion or thought. That's just common sense.
@@JtothePrez it's a nice way of saying I disagree.
L
This game was written by the original ff7 scenario writers. It’s not “fanfiction.” Sorry you don’t like their new works, but it isn’t “fanfiction.”