Why Ollie Chose Rim Brakes For His New Pinarello Dogma F12
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- We're very lucky at GCN to get some amazing road bikes, and Ollie's choice of rim brakes for his Pinarello F12 has raised a few eyebrows. In this video Ollie talks about the reasons why he chose rim brakes over disc and gives a quick overview of the bike specs.
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I'll save it for you "I choose a rim brake - because I already have a disc brake bike."
Pierre F. Which is for me the ultimate reason to stick with Discs. I already have a disc, so I buy another disc. The advantage is you can swap the wheels.
I have both rim and disc brakes on the two bikes I own, cheaper disc brakes are rubbish, feel wooden in their brake performance, where as my rim brakes on my workhorse town bike bite so hard it's not funny. Only really need my disc brakes on the MTB for those hairy bush trails. Enjoy whatever your choice or budget allows
Rim brakes are ok but paired with carbon wheels they are dangerous. th-cam.com/video/ET1jRVynOBA/w-d-xo.html
Yea that doesn’t really make sense as a reason...
He actually gave a lot of other reasons
Crank not in the 3 o'clock position,
Valves not aligned,
No gold chain,
That's just nice Ollie mate...
Took the words right out of my mouth friend
No depth of field - poor effort that.
dont forget that hes in the shot
Such a pity, as the custom paint alone makes it a splendid.
LoL
Stop apologizing for preferring rim brakes bikes, some people are still riding steel fixies.
and some, penny farthings
Go rim brakes. ..
Now don't go spreading hate to us fixed gear riders. To each their own.
i uses rim brakes for my MTB
I'm pretty sure my aluminum fixie is heavier than my old Columbus steel frame Bianchi Nuevo Record. -It's ok though; no hills where I ride.
Rim brakes will be my choice for as long as they will be available. Mainly for the ease of (self-)maintenance. No fiddling with fluids and bleeding procedures. Beautiful bike BTW, Ollie.
All I mean ALL disc brake have rubbing noise. No thanks.
@@williamko4751 That is not true. I have a Canyon Grizl and a Canyon Aeroad in SRAM Rival Etap AXS and they both don't have any rubbing noise whatsoever coming from the discs. Plus they brake consistently better than any Durace rim brake I have ever had.
Rim brakes, clincher tyres & Ultegra mechanical is good enough for me.
Pretty much perfect. Fine for me is Tiagra, except support and wheels (Ultegra).
@@madyogi6164 ... but only _absolutely perfect_ with disk brakes.
@TheNiall not really. I avoid disk brakes when I buy a bike even if the price is the same. I don't do technical descents in wet weather and I perform most of my bike's maintenance (disk brakes are way more difficult to repair). So disk brakes? Thanks, but no thanks.
@Beelzebot no, i don't think they're easier to repair than linear pull. I'd say they're about the same, but i haven't had many linear pull brakes.
@@Mr.Anders0n_ disc brakes last much longer (not having to replace your brake pads every few months). They also brake smoother in my opinion. Both have their ups and downs.
I have bikes with disk and rim breaks. Although disks are good when doing off-road rides requiring big braking power, rim breaks are enough for road rides and races outside of mountains. Two points not mentioned in the video: 1. It’s easier thus cheaper to do maintenance in rim vs disc brakes; and 2. for amateur racers who do not have team support, it’s much easier to change fast a wheel with rim than disc brakes. It’s sad that manufacturers push for disc only nowadays. It doesn’t fit the market for casual Sunday riders who need easy to use and maintain bikes
Can I also pick which Pinarello I want to ride, please?
of course, but you have to pay for it...
acid crayon would be really nice if they gave 1 away. I’m tired of riding my 12Kg flat bar
@@bassbassbasser yep
Yes, please.
order the frame from dhgate. Pinarello makes their frames in Taiwan. If you search hard enough, you'll find an F12 disc unbranded Pinarello frame for about $500
This is the Technology where I can't agree with... So I still choose Rim Breaks
Nailed the balanced argument - well reasoned and presented. Especially right on about choosing a setup that reflects where you live and the kinds of rides / roads you go for. Enjoy the bike - it is lovely!
Yep. I also appreciate the balance. I live in the Appalachians (US) and, for me, that tips the balance towards disc brakes. Weather and the long steep downgrades are just easier with disc brakes. If I lived in flat-to-rolling terrain, I'd certainly stick with rim brakes.
*Casually wiping tears off my eyes from feeling broke
I can relate.
You can build a lighter bike than this from used stuff for pretty cheap.
I'm still on rim brakes for the road mainly because I have so many spare wheels and brake parts for them, if I switched to disc I lose my stash of backups. It's basically controlled hoarding.
This is my reason. I have 3 road rim brake bikes, all running shimano 11 speed. So wheel swaps are simple. Plus they all fit on my turbo without fiddling with adapters.
Well, it's basically pissing off the bike manufacturers and retailers is what it is, basically. You're costing them your money.
Lol yeah that's why I stopped buying extra stuff for my bike. I gotta get disc just cause I ride through winter and rain and go through too many pads. Not rims yet because I brake the rim well before that happens 😔
haha good reason mate
@@innismor11 cry more
Yes mate, RIM BRAKES ALL THE WAY!!!
Rim brakes for me. Ollie hit all the key arguments.
RIm brakes for me. How many times will I be descending on wet mountain roads, at the limits? Zero. When it does get wet on the mountains, I slow waaay down as a matter of common sense.
@@poxcr no, I do mountains only 2 days a week, The climb is 1 hour and the descent 15 minutes. Makes no sense to get disc in any way. Also they don't wear out as quickly as people think from the pads.
That's illogical. Everything else being equal you're saying you'd rather have inferior braking.
@@whatwelearned No, rim works just fine as we still ride packs of 80 to 100. No brake differential issues.. Climbs here i SoCal and rim is lighter. Descents are in the dry.. Who's riding in rain in SoCal anyway, must be an outsider. They work great. .Also try changing tires on a group ride. and rim brake person is done in 1/4 the time of a disc person. There is literally no need for heavier, more expensive. Who cares about more braking performance. Who's braking anyway. LOL.
@@whatwelearned
Inferior? How? You anticipate the need for braking and do so on both. I'll stop just as well on rims or disc. Not inferior by any means.
@@rxonmymind8362 No, you won't, as has been proven time and again.
Threaded bottom bracket is reason enough, fit and forget, it just works!
Pressfit is fine. Never had any issues in the 20k km and 3 BB I've replaced. It does come down to manufacturing tolerances though.
@RollinRat what about bsa it? Is it that bad compared to bsa e?
@@ErzbergAdventures I do 20K KM easy on one threaded BB. I agree press fit should work, but doesn't due to very poor engineering tolerances on BBs even on top end frames! Cervelo are very poor in this regard, Look and Time are amongst the best.
@@lleweybyrne I'm not on a road bike.
I see it all the time in cheaper manufacturer's. Issues all the time with creaking and movement.
@@ErzbergAdventures you went through 3 bb in 20km? Sounds like you have misaligned bb shells.
Very rarely do I thumb-down a video, but I did on this one. And this excerpt is why:
"I have to stress that I do believe disc brakes are for better braking performance in all conditions. But, I'm not being paid to race, if I race, and I don't feel like I want to take unnecessary risks when the roads are slippery."
If the disc brake is better in all conditions, then *riding with rim brakes is, itself, taking an unnecessary risk*. Just don't allow yourself to ride more aggressively on account of having the disc brakes, and you will be safer by having them. Or, in other words, don't succumb to "risk homeostasis".
Matthew Gies better at braking, however inferior in other ways outlined in the video. For The racing I would do in the UK I wouldn’t require disc brakes. If I were racing down mountains, I’d quite like them!
I approve of this video
durianrider good to know! 😉😂
I knew you'd be here , Harley haha
No rub
GCN just needs to do an epi with Durianrider already
Rim brakes for me, I have been cycling since 1984 in all weather conditions, descended the Galibier at 90+kph plus other mountains and have never once thought to myself, if only I had better brakes?
My beef isn't with discs. It's with manufacturers refusing to give us the choice. The customers a choice between rim and disc. Now most top end models come with discs only
Trogg there will be choice as long as there is enough demand. But apparently the demand for rim brake bikes is rapidly going down (for whatever reason, I certainly think most riders would be better off using rim brakes), so it is hard to justify parallel development, production and warehousing. In the end, someone has to pay for it.
@@RadCJ33 specialized rubaix, merida ride, giant defy, cannondale synapse, focus izalco ergo ride just to name the first off the top of my head. Each where by far the most popular models in their line up and all of which have been replaced by disc only builds which don't start at £600-£700 which is where most road bike sales will be.... Are now £1000 to £1500 to start at... Now that's taking the piss. Alienating entry level cyclists and pushing them away from want to purchase bikes. All because "discs are better" at an entry level, no they are not. Stop forcing people to buy disc equipped bikes.
@@bikemike1945 and so is creating a 5 part drama/advertisement series professionally filmed edited and payed for, all in house. Now how's about we waste less money on marketing bollocks and just give the people what they want which is a choice.
Trogg even aero bikes... sad
You can have this bike in either brake type, dickhead
A) I don't ride in wet conditions. B) In 40 years of cycling, rim brakes have never failed me. C) Lesser in weight. D) Lesser in cost. E) Lesser in maintenance. F) Rims are a no brainer...for me.
Stunning bike mate, I'd go rim brakes too, I really like the whole build, just about perfect.
Full review would be great after a couple of months.
Lovin' my rim brakes, no plans to change to disk anytime soon 👍
As Ollie said, the difference may mostly be cycle-ogical!
Can I just have the £11,000 and just keep my bike? I will spend it on cake.
Ian Payne I’ll spend it on epo
That’s a lot of cake
Java Suprema full carbon 1,500 bucks and every bit as good. Aliexpress.
@@thiosemicarbizidebenzoylal2921 that is demonstrably untrue 🤣
@@appa609 full Rihanna
I live in the US Midwest and rarely venture out in the rain. And I love my rim brake Madone. But I also go to Northern California every spring and occasionally to the Alps and Pyrenees with wicked descents and wet roads. Love my disk brake Edmonda. Lucky to have perfect bikes for the where and how I ride. And I agree with Ollie on all points.
Ugh. I feel like this should be me. I can't afford 2 good bikes though. Also N+1
Ollie part of the weight weenies, oh that's very surprising 😂🤣. He is a great advocate for rim brakes. P.S. love my rim brakes.
Threaded BB, awesome! But Italian threaded is ridiculous. Nostalgia over functionality,
A good set of Campi record brakes are super and all I need.
My s-works Tarmac disc weighs 6.8 kg
Could have been lighter w/o right?
How ever did anyone ever descend a mountain prior to disc brakes?
Rim brakes for me !
Rim brakes every time
I have a gorgeous team sky edition dogma F10 with....
RIM BRAKES and ksyrium exalith clinchers, it is totally superior to the disk equivalent
Just got a TCR rim brake because my last bike had discs and proved to be more hassle than it was worth. I still have a disc brake road bike for commuting and winter rides(TRP cable pull) but I have to say as soon as the TCR arrived setting up rim brakes was a joy. Everyone to their own 😀 #lightweight #simpletoadjust #easylife
Pretty much my experience too. Have discs on my commuter bike but rims on the weekend bike. Commuter bike is a upgrade that’s only a couple of months old so I’ll see how the discs hold up. But my previous experience of discs (from 2011 admittedly) was like yours, way to much trouble in comparison to rims, outweighing the extra stopping power.
Disc brakes on a road bike are just too finicky and fragile. I’m running latest Ultegra disc on one bike and Ultegra rim brake on my older bike and the little problems with disc rotor rub is driving me crazy. I don’t want to hear by brakes unless I’m using them and that’s rarely the case with disc. You fiddle and get them silent, no rub, then on the first heavy brake the rotors start to rub again, then they stop, then the rub again. Ching, Ching, Ching. The noises go away. Then they come back. You do a full adjust, spread the Calipers, all is good. Then as soon as you give the brakes a bit of moderate use, Ching, Ching, Ching. Rubbing rotor again. Goes away. Comes back. Again, and again and fcuk’n again.... that’s life with disc brakes
Hi Brett. Align the caliper(s) first. Now take out the pads & spring. Pull apart the spring with fingers a tad which causes pads to come away from rotor more efficiently. Done.
oz cycle thanks. I’ve played with that before but I’ll give it another crack. I was expecting perfection with Ultegra 8000. My kids cheap Aldi MTB with Tektro hydraulic have no issues whatsoever!
oz cycle took your advice. I’d gently tried opening out the copier spring a bit before but obviously it wasn’t much. Pulled the spring open more this time and it seems to have done the trick. Nice tip thanks 👍
They’re definitely not too fragile, don’t worry about that. Once you build confidence in working with them you will find that they are very mechanically simple. In terms of durability, I can only say that I have tried to destroy a set on my mtb and failed so far, so no worries there. The best tip I was given was that you must never touch them without gloves on, unless you enjoy hearing the death cries of a fox each time you pull up.
The only times I've ever wished I had disc brakes were descending Mauna Kea in Hawaii and Jefferson Notch Road in New Hampshire, -the latter of which was loose dirt at over 10% for miles. Oh, and coming down Lolo Pass in the freezing rain in 1998. Mostly, even super cheap rim brakes would be fine 99% of the time for the riding I do. Just don't see the need on a road bike.
Awesome Pinarello.
Do you ride in the rain?
@@ooldmka Sure, I commute year round, rain, snow or sun.
@@bobqzzi Then either you obviously haven't tried discs or you're trolling.
@@graphics_dev5918 Discs work fine. As I said, not remotely needed for the miles I do. They may offer some small advantage in the rain, but in the dry they don't stop any faster since bicycle braking is limited by flipping over, not brake strength or traction.
@@bobqzzi I mostly agree with part two, but the difference in the rain is not at all small IME. I hate riding in the rain with rim brakes (still do it sometimes, but it feels real sketchy). Maybe that's because my first nice bike had discs.
Aesthetically you made the right choice as well. That is a beautiful bike.
Your arguments dont convince at all. You can clearly recognize that the video is just for marketing and not for personal preference. And by the way when it comes to weight: My Tarmac Disc in 61 weighs less then "your" dogma f12 rim brake in 56.
That would be a pretty poor marketing strategy! Ask GCN to promote the cheaper rim brake bike rather than the more expensive disc model. That would go for both a complete bike or just the frameset.
The points I make about rim brakes are all genuine. It’s not a marketing stunt. I don’t have an agenda to push either discs or rim and am not pressured to favorite either system. Both genuinely have advantages and disadvantages and i am just trying explain those to people. I tell it like it is.
@@OllieBridgewood Well Ollie, the last bike you hyped was the new madone. Then we heared nothing more about "your" madone. Now i
it seems the same with the Dogma....Anyway. Lets meet o a coffee ride/beer at the oktoberfest. Cheers 😉🤘🖖
I still stick with my rim brakes. I use disc on my gravel bike. To each his own...
Its too bad direct mount brakes didnt come out earlier, theyre so good. Theres really little need for disc brakes for most people.
I disagree, for riding in traffic and on a wet commuter ride they're life savers. I wouldn't go back to rim brakes now.
JogBird NOT correct. How long does the break-surface on a rim-brake carbon wheel last?? What happens when you have to change the wheel cause of brake-wear? Its gonna cost you a brand new set of carbon wheels! How much does a carbon deep section tubular wheel-set cost?? With disc brakes that is not a problem. Money saved..
@@henriks5008 I have made almost 20000 km with my carbon clinchers and rim brake surface still looks good. It may last 100000 km, who wold knew. I wil have to find another excuse to change my wheels.
@@jkk916 If i could choose, the wheel-set i buy for 2500-3500 $ would last for way way more than 4-5 years without any wear. Ive ridden deep section carbon tubulars since 2012 and had to change once. Maybe your standards are lower than mine? When i measure 0,5 mm wear and a concave brake surface its time to change. I live in a hilly area therefore brake a lot.
@@henriks5008 That is crazy amount of money for a wheelset so I would think you are all about performance. But what if a bicycle with half cheaper wheels and rim brakes would be faster than a bike with discs and your wheels? Discs are heavy and cause some aero drag. You could buy cheaper and quite heavy deep section wheels and still have lighter and more aerodynamic bicycle.
Also, if you have expensive hubs it would make sense to rebuild wheels with a new rim. I don't know why people act like rim brake wears off their cartilage, it wears off rim only for a gods sake!
I cannot even measure wear, it is too minute. I don't live in flat area either and I occasionally ride on bad weather. But to be fair I rarely ride steep technical descends.
Maybe you should try some other brake pads...
I'm building a road/treking bike now and wondered which way to go, but weight, price and the fact that i'm an amateur convinces me i don't need disk brakes.
Give me a brake, people. 😁
This is what Ollie should have said:
“Disc brakes are really for the pros. They can afford them. Can change them often or their mechanics can. They must often ride in the rain. They need to cut high-speed down effectively and they don’t care about price. Amateurs however are concerned about price. Don’t have mechanics. Don’t want to change pads often. Don’t ride in the rain unless for some reason get caught in it. And don’t go as fast as pros on a descent… in a race. However if an amateur can afford two bikes or is lucky to have a deal with a bike company. Then that amateur may choose to go for rim brake AND disc brake. But my advice to an amateur who is not super rich, and wants to work on his own bike, would be to get a rim brake bike. They would be the smart way to go for him or her.”
…
I am. My new canyon Endurace 7 CF that I have saved very hard for - will be rim. Unless I get signed by Movistar.
Rim brakes 4 ever mainly for 2 reasons: Reliability and Semplicity
I found another interesting video about Rim VS Disc especially at:
th-cam.com/video/LxMPKJPCD40/w-d-xo.html
1:33 allan-key set
1:38 wheels weight (acceleration)
1:47 real needs (if you ride to win you have to brake as less as possible 👊🔥👊)
2:08 asymmetry
OK, I like your reasoning here. I found that GCN in general is geared so much towards disc brakes that it sounds like rim brakes are pretty much useless. Far from the real truth. Nice bike! Your a lucky guy to be able to put out the bucks for a Dogma. Not exactly a "affordable" bike.
To me direct mount brakes are the best option, I wish more bikes had them more than enough power
Depends on how/where/when you ride though. Not enough in mine for a lot of instances
Disc brake technology still isn’t there, caliper piston sticking, pad rub, bent/warp disc.... No thanks!
I'm a rim brake guy. I go for the light weight and simplicity. I ride aluminum Mavic Ksyrium UST tubeless wheels. Not worried about overcooking carbon rims LOL. BTW all the GC contenders at the three grand tours and their climbing domestiques continue using rim brakes.
pros don't have to pay for their rims and they got mechanics preparing their tubulars, so it's not really an argument
@@1afterthep So what's your point?
1. Pros race on closed roads
2. Pros don't need to worry about wearing out rims
3. Weight matters to pros
@Norman "BTW all the GC contenders at the three grand tours and their climbing domestiques continue using rim brakes."
Not this year they didn't.
@@fukawitribe The winners did.
followup video: why Ollie does not ride said Rim Brake Pinarello anymore in 2023
Disc brake rubbing would drive me mad. I will stay with rim brakes for the conceivable future.
Vickie Kaye Agree. I often find myself on club rides with people using discs and as soon as we hit some dirty roads they start sounding like cement mixers! Drives me crazy. Rim brakes for me.
@@stevegeek Really? I haven't ridden with anyone on discs yet but I certainly believe it.
Yea it’s awful..soon as get slightly wet the noise of them 😩
@@harrydelaney6623 youd think there was a train on the road
@@Bayo106 yea bog time like a train horn 😂
Observed a rider packing his disk brake bike for bullet train. Had nice little covers for disks, sprockets. It was also a nice road bike, custom paint no labels. Rim brakes less susceptible to damage during transport. A minor consideration that of course can be managed with discs but a little more care.
chooses rim brakes to save a couple of hundred grams for climbing... meanwhile over at GMBN presenter does everest challenge on 150 mm enduro bike :)
Rim brakes save a lot more than "couple of hundred" grams... more like over 500 grams
@@Sills71 Ehm... isn't 500gr a couple of hundred grams? Isn'tr any number between 200 and 999 grams "a couple of hundred grams"?
@@daray666 "A couple of hundred grams" refers to 200 grams. The only way what you're saying could possibly make sense would be if he had said "A couple of hundreds of grams", and nobody says that.
Never seen such blatant promotional blaa blaa. Paid promo. Why do we watch this garbage.?
This is a really well thought out video. I've got discs on a city commuter. And I would never change back. They're perfect for that. But...I'll probably upgrade my 5yo road bike next year, and rim brakes feel like the right option. I couldn't work out why though, this puts that into words.
I only use rim brakes for different reasons; I am convinced that with disk brakes there is a risk to braking too hard in a sudden, surprising situation. So the risk of an accident caused by "over-braking" is high. I suppose you can see this even in pro races. I have good experience with my rim brakes, I am using the front brake only in 95%.
#SaveRimBrakes // I feel like the industry is forcing the adoption of disc brakes, with a lot of brands releasing new models with disc only.
Giving Cannondale SuperSix as an example of disc being lighter than rim is unfair though, because Cannondale intentionally offers rim brake model with 2nd tier, heavier frames only.
I think rim brakes should always be an option, why can't we just have a rim and disc version of each bike?
They can make more money out of disc brakes, that is why
@@waldimuller4911 Disc brakes are just objectively better. That's why. Most people want rim brakes because they're used to them. As you can see in the video, even Ollie said disc brakes are superior and if he could only have one bike, he'd choose his orbea.
@@polychromatism3078 yes. And more parts = more money. They don't make the brakes. They purchase from a supplier (likely Chinese, dead serious) then grossly mark it up for immense profits. The frames too. My f12 chinarello fools pro's.
@@Agent-vj3ns I don't know much about their manufacturing process and where they source their parts. I was mostly referring to the "GiVe RiM BrAkEs A cHaNcE" argument. It's fucking dumb.
7.15kg!!! Heavy for £12k 😮
It is starting to rain and there is a technically descent ahead!, You: "damn i wish i got disk brakes that looks scary"
somehow we survived long wet descents with loaded panniers on dirt roads forever and now we "need"disc brakes because the bike industry says so, or not.
Not when you actually know how to handle a bike, and when to brake on the road.
@@55whiplash that's not an argument. Just because we had something in the past doesn't mean it is inherently better. Disc brakes are demonstrably better. I have had bad stopping experiences with rim brakes. Hills, snow, speed. They have worked for some and for other not. That isn't a reason to not innovate. If vehicles go from rim (drum) to disc as they get fast you think it's because it's a fad?
@@johnwedlake5543 I do. And I ride at speeds and whether that most people shy from. @ me when your rims fail because its -20, snowing, and a hill
@@phillip2169 Just get off the bike and walk in dangerous descents
Good balanced viewpoint on the pros and cons of discs vs rim brakes. I've never wished for more braking power than my Campagnolo rim brakes and alu wheels provide, even when letting it rip down Alpine descents. I can't speak for racing cyclists, but I'm not aware of any pros complaining that their rim brakes aren't powerful enough (I could be wrong there). Anyway, I just don't like the cluttered look of discs on a lightweight road bike, especially the asymmetrical (dished) front wheel when viewed from the saddle, so it will always be rim brakes for me (even more so now with the direct mount option).
Rim brakes all day long 👍 one of my bikes is an F8 btw.
Disc brakes really spoilt the good look of the bicycles. it truly is the biggest gimmick in the history of bicycles. it is really sad.
This is interesting because I picked a disc break bike specifically because I'd ride my brakes down descents trying to stay safe. I would go through brake pads so quick and in a hot day the rims would heat up like crazy and I even melted the tire coming down vontoux. I found rim brakes soooo dangerous for someone trying to go slow down a hill
True that! If you rely more on the air resistance by going faster, your brakes get less energy to dissipate, and the faster airflow cools the rims better.
the NOISE dont forget the NOISE ! Squeeeeeel -- Squeeeeck -- Squaaaaaaaa
It's interesting you should say 'psychological in my head', because I find that attitude is rife among roadies with their brand snobbery.
I find the same amoung mtn bikers that turn their nose up at road riding and roadies, but don't actually have any experience with serious roadies or what hard road riding even is. I lay low and let them run their mouths, they might hold my wheel for 10 mins on a good day.
I prefer the rim break, because radial and lighter spokes at front wheel and opposite casete side of rear wheel. More durable from road shocks like vertical and more aero . The disk break isn't allowed the radial spokes and required wider, longer, stronger diagonal spokes. Not so often mentioned it in rim vs disc topic! So if possible I avoid disc break more time. I'll see when I have no choice. I agree with you, all road bikers style, environment and requirement is different. So I hope not mandatory use for me disk break, because the market needs.
I prefer my rims don't break)
When in dry weather, rim brakes have a nicer feel, you dont feel the torque you get from discs
Neatly explained. I couldn't agree more. Those same reasons apply to 90% of cyclists out there, who don't need disc brakes either and even pay more for a heavier trickier-to-adjust bike. But that's how the industry works. Selling stuff to people who don't need it and even making them believe they're better off with it.
If it's not broke don't fix it. I'm with rim brakes. Stay old school i say.
True but that's not how innovation happens.
If it isn't broke you're not fixing it by researching how to make it better. Would you like to stay with steam power? Or muscle cars who make less efficient power than today's cars?
Then ride a steel single speed from the early 1900s. It worked well enough back then, it's cheaper and easier to maintain, too!
It’s not exactly innovation if you’re not improving on something, you’re making something different. Disc brakes are NOT AN UPGRADE. I have a rim brake and a disc brake bike. Discs are better on gravel and rim is better on climbs. They are both good at different things because they are different.
*chooses to fit GXP*
Hambini: *unsubscribes*
I've just swap from a tcr disc to a tcr rim. Everyone goes on about better braking yes... safer In my experience no... i had the R8020 levers and over 12 months had not one but 2 leaks from the master cylinder (both replaced under warrenty) once while the bike wasnt even in use... the second time in a fast decent lucky for me there was no cars as I totally lost my brake! So imo they may brake better but they arent as reliable making them not safe! Disc is the future yes..... but it's still got a long way to go. I'm back to a tcr rim brake bike now with a set of alloy clinchers and personally feel safer now as I dont need to worry about a leak at 45.6mph 😂
there's a reason cars got dual systems ;-)
Personally, I'm in love with mechanical discs. I find them to be the best of both worlds. However, both my road bike and one of my commuters have rim brakes, which for the road bike is just fine, since it sees little action. However, I've recently had to replace my commuter's front rim due to wear. Relacing a wheel is definitely more difficult than swapping a disc out. Now, mind you, the main reason the rim required replacing on my commuter is the mileage AND the lack of care I give it. After all, that IS the point of a commuter bike. But the rim replacement is certainly not one of my favourite parts.
@@adnartmadmartm8718 yeah its horses for courses I only use my tcr for club rides and sportives. I'll be lucky to ride 3000 miles a year. With 2 wheelsets that should last me a long long time.
I brought a disc as I was told it's the "future" and that's exactly what it is imo the technically just isnt there yet. Rubbing discs is normally user error but 2 failing master cylinders is not.
I'll stick to rim for now does all it needs to for me :)
I use my foot on my back wheel best braking ever. Super light
Lmao..foot brake
I have and prefer rim brakes both for the look and just the feel
@Phil Weatherley not really its like saying mozart was an amazing peformer and composer and that the limitations of the instuments meant it sounds the way it does today .
Each to their own. I find disc brakes much cleaner and better looking
One nice thing about rim brakes is you can use radial spoking on the front wheel.
You can do a half lace on disc front wheels. 2x or 3x on disc side, radial on opposite. Only real point to do so would be very marginal weight savings...wheel would be stronger with uniform pattern.
@RollinRat - For a "30 year" wheel builder you are misinformed, especially on your "triangulation" claim (the radial is actually stiffer laterally than 3x because of this; diagram below). A 3x wheel _may_ potentially be stronger, but it's not laterally stiffer. Radial lacing is *actually* laterally stiffer if built equal (same hub, rim, count, spoke ga/style, tension, etc). This is a fundamental fact that cannot be ignored, and why it's taught at the Bicycle Institute. It boils down to Ftu and trigonometry. For the sake of argument, we are ignoring hub flange damage and blowout (why Shimano doesn't warranty radial lacing). There is no reason whatsoever a 3x would be laterally stiffer, because the hub flange distance and offset remains the same. One of the reasons 3x is not laterally stiffer is because its spokes introduce more tensile elasticity due to their longer length. The spokes also sit askew at the cross points and will pull straighter under load as that slack is removed (offer more deflection). Lastly it's just trigonometry (your "triangulation" claim): Take a cross section of identical wheels in 3x and radial and examine the rim's top spoke hole. On a 3x wheel the spoke is jointed to the hub flange further away near the axle area, which creates a shallower angle to the rim than a radial lace (where the spoke is jointed at the top of the flange). Here is a diagram I made a while ago of your misinformed "triangulation" claims: i.postimg.cc/nxwf9WnR/3xradialcomplat.jpg Not pictured, but if you note the third cross point in a 3x is always contact with a sister spoke on the same side hub flange, so there is no false assumption of the geometry changing or moving to the outer cross point. I see this as a counter argument all the time until the party realizes this.
@RollinRat I used to build wheels for my own use, but nowadays, it's harder to find the components. Earlier this year, I bought a new set of inexpensive Shimano wheels, to replace worn-out stupid light wheels. The front wheel is radially spoked, by the way. Going to replace the brifters with downtube shifters. Building wheels sounds like a really nice retirement job.
@RollinRat I have found that a wheel is overtensioned that attempts to correct a wobble cause a wobble on the opposite side. It's like increasing the tension causes the local minimum where the wheel is true to be shallower, and more likely to want to became "potato chip" like.
@RollinRat For what it's worth, I do play a fretless bass.
Thread-in bottom brackets - always.
Rim
team ineos rides rim brakes so it has to be faster
Of course it's faster. They also ride on closed roads. What about you? Imo it's simply the case that pro's have different requirements and the average consumer should in most instances ignore their choices with regards to equipment (not even talking sponsorship here)
@@StopTheRotI think we agree
Last tour ( this year) Alaphillipe was on disc brakes. Remember when he epically descended an reconnected with the GC contender group? No one else was on discs. I think we’re going to see the rest of the peloton move to discs quite quickly now, after that.
Honestly, im an old coddger, im still riding my Klein Performance touring bike with Zeuss center pull rim brakes.
Cyclist 40 years, I ride rim brakes whatever, just got a Colnago C64 with direct mount, rock solid stopping. road bikes don't need discs.
rim brakes are more practical for a long ride, easy to maintain.
Congratulations on the new bike! Slick as a whip.
The bike's shi+e; but North Yorkshire rules. The End
Can I get a job please? Oh go on I'm well suited, racing experience you say?...Ah well um...Presenting experience?....Err....I can make tea, whatdayasay?
Mr Ollie has a PHD in Organic Chemistry! along with being a bicycle journalist. EMMA has a PHD in Geotechnical Engineering. Dan Lloyd has interesting hair. Just saying, you may need to shine up your resume a bit to compete!
@@chrisscott8362 bronze swimming certificate? AND and I can ride with no hands...for 3 seconds. Beat that!
@@chrisscott8362 I could be there to make Lloydy look good, tall order but for an F12 I'll give it a go ;-P
Rob Smith Someone has got to do it! Your up - just choose your f12 color. 👍
Road bike with disc brakes is the ugliest thing in the world ! 😁
Great ride 👍🏼 For me what I love about bicycles is the simplicity, having dics goes against this... prefer a light as bike as possible.
It's not really about the brakes, as much as it is a tour of the bike...
Rim brakes ever!!
I will only say what I have experience on:
I live on a volcanic island, so there are basicly no flats just up's and downs, i have been using rim brakes during. In here you can encounter steep decends that go for 200m vertical (avg -17%, max 23%) with tight corners and some long decends full of tight corners, I find that they are very good at breaking and I don't need disk brakes honestly, roads are sometimes quite bumpy so I suffer from a problem, every 400km I have to realign the front wheel because of the heat that the breakes grenerate, bumpy roads plus tight corners. But that is all the complains I have with it. I also have to say that I never used them in wet conditions because i don't need to ride in the rain LOL.
I have also used brake disk from a bike of a friend, I hate when they get a mildly hot and start screaming, those were hydraulic too. They surely gave me more breaking power but I didnt feel the need for it, plus the breaks sounded like those coal old trains once they got to break on a train station they would just ear rape everyone nearby. I have never experienced such thing with rim breaks, when they overheat you can hear a suddle (sssssssssssssssssssssss) and not blow everyone's hear.
I agree with Ollie. I chose rim brakes on my new bike, for much the same reason as he stated. Another reason I chose them is I know how to maintain them, and can't be bothered to learn how to maintain disc brakes!
As an aside, doesn't Ollie just seem like a top bloke? Would love to go for a ride with him - and then for a brew!
Maintaining disk brakes is really easy. Just watch a few TH-cam videos and then start working on yours before finding that they don’t behave the same as the ones in the videos and now you have a bike where the fucking brakes are fucked and you’ve got to drive the twat to a pissing mechanic to get the fucking bastards sorted for the third fucking time this bastard year....
Then revert to rim brakes.
It’s like justifying a Skoda over a VW. They’re from the same company in essence but you’d choose the VW because you know that you’d always be justifying the lower price Skoda to yourself and all your mates 😀
I'd be more concerned that they came from the biggest emissions cheats on the planet!
loved hearing Ollie’s views on choosing rim brakes. Personally, i would always go for rim brakes. Work brilliant any long descent including the high mountains (the only time i’ll ride in the pouring rain in the mountains is if i get caught in a thunderstorm or it’s a passing shower). The travelling issue is a huge one for me and also the lack of rubbing.
Superb frame but looks even better in the galaxy blue fade scheme.
Threaded bottom bracket is the only way to go too.
I'm also 185cm tall, riding a 58 frame with 90cm stem. Guess I'd be looking better with a 55cm frame and 120 stem, thus, better high speed control. .
The big thing for me for disc vs rim brakes is I couldn't bring myself to wear out a £1k pair of rims, whereas even Dura ace rotors are less than £100 a pair, and are trivial to remove and fit replacements.
Plus the roads are awful round me so 28mm+ tyres are a must
Henry Ashman people always bring this up but I don’t remember the last time I ever worn out a carbon wheel in my last 7 years of hard racing 🤦♂️
30 years of riding and never wore out a rim I have replaced wheels out of wanting something newer than wearing them.out
Don't try to justify discs with that, they will just cost you more.
It’s not the consistent and predictable wear that’s an issue (as with mountain bikes), but the risk of suddenly trashing rims by picking up some grit is enough to stop me investing in carbon rims for my current rim-brake bike.
Never seen anyone wear out rims. Carbon or otherwise. Do you ride with the brakes constantly applied or something?
What seems to be lost in the conversation about rim brakes and disc brakes is the difference in manufacturing the fork. Disc brakes require more material and stiffness in the fork to handle the forces created by braking. This leads to slightly less compliance and a bit more shock through the hands.
Disc brakes are always going to be better - more power and better modulation. I think rim brakes will be a minority choice for climbing bikes (like Ollie's). Disc brakes also go very well with carbon rims without any concern about heating resins or wet braking performance.
In saying that, I got a set of new Campagnolo dual pivot brakes and I'm not sure if it's new pad material or what, but they are incredible (on alloy wheels). Quite happy to stick with them for a while yet.
I would like to see how hydraulic actuated rim brakes compare if those catch on in the future. Could maybe have the great stopping power and easy lever pull with the hydraulic lines and dual mounting points, but the simplicity of the rim brake setup. Interesting times to see the competition in two schools of thought.
Its awesome to watch another cyclist excited about their new bike... I love that buzz. Enjoy every mile Ollie!
Very good rim brake choose 😉
Rim brakes for ever!!! Easy to fix, easy to handle, easy to refresh, light weight, easy to clean, no overheating problems aaaand ... cheaper. Also I can't find anything good about blocking weels on descending rides. I need turning wheels even in panic situations. And even the rim brakes manage to block. So: no difference between those two systems here.
totally agree 🤘
here other good rasons to choose RIM 🙌
th-cam.com/video/LxMPKJPCD40/w-d-xo.html
How do you manage to use SRAM parts with Shimano components? Are they interchangeable? Also what was the overall cost of the bike ?
scram are normal standard size , except electronic shift i dont know?
Pro tip use WD40 on your breaks
LoL
By the logic of this video, if you're not often riding steep descents you don't want your brakes to be too good or you'll take unnecessary risks!
Why can so few people spell 'brake'? This always bugs me.
Because any kind of brake can break.
It's all in choice. I love disc because im a heavier rider and cunning driven the mountains is scary without disc for me
If you travel a lot with your bike (especially by plane) you will appreciate the simplicity of rim brakes and non-integrated cockpits. Rim brakes are kind of generic, so you can find some sort replacement in any bike shop around the world. With disc brakes this not the case, every model is different and normally not interchangeable, so even specialised stores may not carry spare parts for your particular model. No problem at home, but really annoying when you spent a lot of money to travel to a particular event and you need your bike fixed asap.