I don't fully like the positional fighter tag because technically everything is a positional fighter in the sense that you have to put the aircraft into position to use your weapons to get kills. Yeah, I get I'm being picky but it is the same overarching problem I have with people throwing the energy fighter tag around. Every fighter is an energy fighter. Without energy everything is an easy kill. I do get what you are saying though so it does technically work. In my opinion the tags of what is what needs to be specified because too many people casually throw tags around without actually knowing what they are talking about. I'm going to define things based on traditional/historical aspects as defined by military forces. Support fighter: something that lacks the performance to be competitive against contemporary fighters but can still function as a fighter in a pinch. In game these are either seriously over BRed fighters that are completely outclassed performance wise at the BR they are at or most bombers/attackers that can double as fighters. Examples include the S-199 (2.0 performance at best), J21s (3.0-3.3 at best performance), J22s (both are 2.3s at best), FW-190A-8 (the only FW-190 variant that qualifies and the A8 should be 4.3), Ta-152C (5.3 in my opinion), C.205 serie 3 and N (serie 3 is a 4.0 plane and the N is a 3.7 plane), Re.2005 (4.3 at best as the Spit F.IX at 4.3 will beat it 1v1), Helldivers, Dauntless... The A6Ms don't qualify entirely as a support fighter because they are being propped up massively by massively buffed elevator compression. Historically no A6M could pull inside the turn of a P-47 at 300mph IAS. In game the A6Ms can do so up to about 430mph with ease. Historically the A7Ms had better high speed handling than the A6M. In game they don't. Simultaneously the B7As and D4Ys don't count as support fighters because they match fighters overall in performance, or exceed in the case of the D4Ys, while still getting bomber spawns. The D4Y3 can dogfight a Yak-3 and win. I know because I did just that when the D4Y3 was first introduced to the game and was at around 4.0. The D4Y1 should be 3.0 with the Y2 being 3.7 and the Y3 being 4.3. The B7As should go to 5.0. As for fighters there are 3 classifications: dogfighter, boom and zoom and hit and run. These classifications are based on a general snap shot of the overall opponents possible. In a match these classifications are more fluid based on the actual opponents and scenarios. For example if there are no dogfighters in a match then the BnZ group basically becomes the dogfighter group. These are the definitions for these 3 classifications. Dogfighter: something that is a dueling specialist. In a 1v1 knife fight these are the best. Examples include Spits, A6Ms, Ki-44s, J2Ms, D4Ys, B7As, Re.2000s and 2001s, Typhoons, 109Es, Yaks, P-59, Vampires, Meteors, MiG-15s, 17s and 19s. Typhoons, Ki-84s, Griffon Spits and Yaks are at the borderline/end of this group. A Yak that is appropriately BRed, a la the Yak-3P or the late 9s, doesn't dominate entire BRs like under BRed ones do. So many Yaks being under BRed was overlooked historically in game for a long time because up until realshatter Soviet guns were below average at best. Low ammo with poor guns equated to them not getting a lot of kills making it look like they were fine statistically. With realshatter the guns are great and the performance allows them to dominate in capable hands. This fact and the over BRed fighters in the support fighter group are prime examples why armament should never be used to determine BRs until advanced missiles come into play. BR should only be determined by aircraft performance if players want any semblance of balance. Late 109s, excluding the K, in very skilled hands can qualify as dogfighters even though they don't turn well horizontally. Their low speed handling is second only to a few Japanese fighters. This quality has endeared them to many duelists over the years of WT. Boom and zoom: something that relies more on it's speed and tactics that emphasize speed over maneuverability as they lack the maneuverability of dogfighters. Examples include P-51s, P-47s, LaGG/La line, late 109s, FW-190s, Tempests, F-80s, F-86s, Mirage IIIs and Vs. Hit and run: something that relies on tactics that are focused on one pass and then running to reset because the aircraft doesn't have the performance to actually get into a maneuvering fight against most contemporary fighters. Examples include MB.5, Do-335s, Hornets, Ta-154, Ta-152C at an appropriate BR, Bf-110s, Me-410s, Wyvern (should be 5.0 at least), Me-262s, F-84Gs, Hunters and F-105.
@@josephbubash1662 Thanks. I'd hope so given that I've actually tried a lot to improve air RB in the past. I've even gotten a few changes into the game. The respawning bomber bases, soft ground targets in BR matches above 2.3 that count to tickets and ground attack aircraft for planes to shoot down that can't destroy hardened ground targets to bleed tickets was all me. Still more could be done but those changes were circa 2017-2018ish so it has been a long time since Gaijin did anything, and was interested in doing anything.
@@sjoerdbrouwer9822 MiG-15 is one of the best turning fighters of it's era. It dominates a dogfight against most even with it's poor roll once you get sub about 800kmh. It's really meaningful weakness is that it struggles at high speeds (above about 800kmh) in every respect. Note that the speed is an estimate on my part as I don't know the exact speed that is relevant. There is a reason that a lot of the best duelists go to the MiG-15 for duels in jets of that time frame.
I completely agree with your take on the Yaks. They turn better, recover quicker, and out stall all of the positional and energy fighters. But they also climb better, retain energy better, and are faster than the dedicated turn fighters. Their historical downside was poor engine performance above 4km, but 95% of fights in WT do not occur at altitudes higher than that. The wing rip in a dive only kills low skill players and gives other fighters a way to escape at the expense of all of their position. The somewhat limited ammo does not balance the plane itself. It only makes it harder to get those monster games with 8+ frags. In reality, they're very consistent aircraft because they have the perfect blend of performance metrics to counter the majority of opponents in a match.
The amount of nerfs the A1-A5 have gotten in the past year and a half, from the melting even on MEC to the stupid fuses on the 151 being the same as the FFM, makes it a hangar decorator for me. Being a greybeard that remembers what that bird once was it just makes me sad to see how they massacred my boy ☹
I feel like you could just say interceptor. It seems air players like using everchanging terms to obfuscate anything useful. I was talking to someone who didn't get energy retention and I told them don't listen to anyone Yap, go and look at the different wing designs and why they exist. More useful in less time.
I don't fully like the positional fighter tag because technically everything is a positional fighter in the sense that you have to put the aircraft into position to use your weapons to get kills. Yeah, I get I'm being picky but it is the same overarching problem I have with people throwing the energy fighter tag around. Every fighter is an energy fighter. Without energy everything is an easy kill. I do get what you are saying though so it does technically work.
In my opinion the tags of what is what needs to be specified because too many people casually throw tags around without actually knowing what they are talking about. I'm going to define things based on traditional/historical aspects as defined by military forces.
Support fighter: something that lacks the performance to be competitive against contemporary fighters but can still function as a fighter in a pinch. In game these are either seriously over BRed fighters that are completely outclassed performance wise at the BR they are at or most bombers/attackers that can double as fighters. Examples include the S-199 (2.0 performance at best), J21s (3.0-3.3 at best performance), J22s (both are 2.3s at best), FW-190A-8 (the only FW-190 variant that qualifies and the A8 should be 4.3), Ta-152C (5.3 in my opinion), C.205 serie 3 and N (serie 3 is a 4.0 plane and the N is a 3.7 plane), Re.2005 (4.3 at best as the Spit F.IX at 4.3 will beat it 1v1), Helldivers, Dauntless...
The A6Ms don't qualify entirely as a support fighter because they are being propped up massively by massively buffed elevator compression. Historically no A6M could pull inside the turn of a P-47 at 300mph IAS. In game the A6Ms can do so up to about 430mph with ease. Historically the A7Ms had better high speed handling than the A6M. In game they don't. Simultaneously the B7As and D4Ys don't count as support fighters because they match fighters overall in performance, or exceed in the case of the D4Ys, while still getting bomber spawns. The D4Y3 can dogfight a Yak-3 and win. I know because I did just that when the D4Y3 was first introduced to the game and was at around 4.0. The D4Y1 should be 3.0 with the Y2 being 3.7 and the Y3 being 4.3. The B7As should go to 5.0.
As for fighters there are 3 classifications: dogfighter, boom and zoom and hit and run. These classifications are based on a general snap shot of the overall opponents possible. In a match these classifications are more fluid based on the actual opponents and scenarios. For example if there are no dogfighters in a match then the BnZ group basically becomes the dogfighter group. These are the definitions for these 3 classifications.
Dogfighter: something that is a dueling specialist. In a 1v1 knife fight these are the best. Examples include Spits, A6Ms, Ki-44s, J2Ms, D4Ys, B7As, Re.2000s and 2001s, Typhoons, 109Es, Yaks, P-59, Vampires, Meteors, MiG-15s, 17s and 19s.
Typhoons, Ki-84s, Griffon Spits and Yaks are at the borderline/end of this group. A Yak that is appropriately BRed, a la the Yak-3P or the late 9s, doesn't dominate entire BRs like under BRed ones do. So many Yaks being under BRed was overlooked historically in game for a long time because up until realshatter Soviet guns were below average at best. Low ammo with poor guns equated to them not getting a lot of kills making it look like they were fine statistically. With realshatter the guns are great and the performance allows them to dominate in capable hands. This fact and the over BRed fighters in the support fighter group are prime examples why armament should never be used to determine BRs until advanced missiles come into play. BR should only be determined by aircraft performance if players want any semblance of balance. Late 109s, excluding the K, in very skilled hands can qualify as dogfighters even though they don't turn well horizontally. Their low speed handling is second only to a few Japanese fighters. This quality has endeared them to many duelists over the years of WT.
Boom and zoom: something that relies more on it's speed and tactics that emphasize speed over maneuverability as they lack the maneuverability of dogfighters. Examples include P-51s, P-47s, LaGG/La line, late 109s, FW-190s, Tempests, F-80s, F-86s, Mirage IIIs and Vs.
Hit and run: something that relies on tactics that are focused on one pass and then running to reset because the aircraft doesn't have the performance to actually get into a maneuvering fight against most contemporary fighters. Examples include MB.5, Do-335s, Hornets, Ta-154, Ta-152C at an appropriate BR, Bf-110s, Me-410s, Wyvern (should be 5.0 at least), Me-262s, F-84Gs, Hunters and F-105.
BIG comment, but seriously dude you hit so many nails on the head with the balance issues in air rb.
@@josephbubash1662 Thanks. I'd hope so given that I've actually tried a lot to improve air RB in the past. I've even gotten a few changes into the game. The respawning bomber bases, soft ground targets in BR matches above 2.3 that count to tickets and ground attack aircraft for planes to shoot down that can't destroy hardened ground targets to bleed tickets was all me. Still more could be done but those changes were circa 2017-2018ish so it has been a long time since Gaijin did anything, and was interested in doing anything.
Mig-15 doesn't really feel like a dog fighter with the horrible roll rate. But I guess I could see it since everything else does fit the bill?
@@sjoerdbrouwer9822 MiG-15 is one of the best turning fighters of it's era. It dominates a dogfight against most even with it's poor roll once you get sub about 800kmh. It's really meaningful weakness is that it struggles at high speeds (above about 800kmh) in every respect. Note that the speed is an estimate on my part as I don't know the exact speed that is relevant.
There is a reason that a lot of the best duelists go to the MiG-15 for duels in jets of that time frame.
I completely agree with your take on the Yaks. They turn better, recover quicker, and out stall all of the positional and energy fighters. But they also climb better, retain energy better, and are faster than the dedicated turn fighters.
Their historical downside was poor engine performance above 4km, but 95% of fights in WT do not occur at altitudes higher than that. The wing rip in a dive only kills low skill players and gives other fighters a way to escape at the expense of all of their position.
The somewhat limited ammo does not balance the plane itself. It only makes it harder to get those monster games with 8+ frags. In reality, they're very consistent aircraft because they have the perfect blend of performance metrics to counter the majority of opponents in a match.
No other A1 video needed, the positional theory was the right recipe here.
Hail Banana!
The amount of nerfs the A1-A5 have gotten in the past year and a half, from the melting even on MEC to the stupid fuses on the 151 being the same as the FFM, makes it a hangar decorator for me. Being a greybeard that remembers what that bird once was it just makes me sad to see how they massacred my boy ☹
Thanks your video are very good
W vid I think I found the best war thunder air player I think it’s Ace Viper
the FW190 is one of my favorite German aircraft, especially the a1.
It’s great but there are so many people that don’t know how to make it work.
I feel like you could just say interceptor. It seems air players like using everchanging terms to obfuscate anything useful. I was talking to someone who didn't get energy retention and I told them don't listen to anyone Yap, go and look at the different wing designs and why they exist. More useful in less time.