I've been studying japanese for a few years, they definitely look like Egyptian hieroglyphs mixed with kanji to me. Those repetitions of lines also appear in kanji. Some things that stood out to me are the symbol for "C" looks a lot like 血 (chi) meaning blood. The thing you identify at 11:03 looks like 心 (heart) especially when its written in ink. The top of the letter for W looks like the top of 登 (climb) or 発 (depart)
In the past I tried to theorize that the castle wouldn't actually belong to the queen, but being stolen by her instead. I thought the sarcophagi and the idols would have been added later to the castle, and that would be why they'd have the same language/characters from Yorda/Queens language. I started to question this because I think it's strange that the castle have a graveyard with tombstones adorned by horns, and also some statues of horned warriors, so when I finished the game for the first time, I interpreted that the castle would have belonged to Ico's own lineage long ago in the past... but it's difficult to sustain that possibility when the castle archtecture is so well tied to the sacrificial hall, as we can see in MysticOde's videos exploring the details of the castle, also the language/writing use is more complicated than I noticed at first. I don't know, I like to imagine, nowadays, that the castle was populated once by horned people serving a lineage of kings and queens that, at some point, discovers the whole Dormin shit contained in their bodies and betrays them, in order to absorb their magical properties and live forever. Then the horned servants may have run away, I don't know... In the end, what really matters is what we can invent from these holes in the macro narrative.
Do bare in mind I've never played this particular game so here are just some observations/ ideas I've made while watching. Idea 1: The language was never written and is passed down through spoken word more often then not, similar to ancient languages such as Brythonic/ Brittonic. Idea 2: The subtitles are a 'what if' scenario of what would said language be like if it were written down. Idea 3: All the symbols refer to 3 main themes, alive, natural and man made, the ones that have a defined eye B, D, G, H ,etc. Could be things that they seen as being sentient or having some sort of divinity/ holy nature. Idea 4: All the instances of written language are a commoner version used by lower classes whereas what was spoken by royalty would be a higher form of the same language/ more refined, but never written. Idea 5: The sarcophagus I think depicts 2 parents praying or begging over the loss of a child (I think indirectly since I would imagine most cultures seeing their children as divine/ special/ sentient), the box above depicting the sarcophagus itself and a something escaping like a soul, or it could be a prophesy for the child to escape. The '2 connected humans' could be enemies of the realm that have been bound together.
I personally think that a big inspiration for the characters was chinese Oracle Bone, Bronze and especially Seal Script. Chinese has multiple sources for the Hanzi characters, though the relevant ones in this case are the pictograms and possibly ideograms. Looking at characters with clear pictographic basis, the logographic design is similar to the Yorda script. In the cases of characters like [M]ountain (山) and [R]iver (川) they even partially resembles the real world Hanzi characters for these words. Similar arguments could be made for [B]ird (鳥), [E]ast (東), [I]/Eye (目) and [T]ree (木) - especially looking at their Bronze or Seal Script iterations. As such, I think that while the connection to Hieroglyphics is reasonable and understandable as they share pictographic basis, the connection to Runic and Sumerian alphabets seems far more strenuous.
Indeed! Some people also mentioned this and I definitely overlooked Asian ancient (and cotemporary) languages that do seem to draw a lot of similarities.
i'm playing a game that just came out right now, Eternal Strands, and it's funny, sometimes I feel like I have pre-Project Robot vibes considering what we know about the game so far. In Eternal Strands there are giant robots that we fight a bit like those in SOTC, we climb on them etc. many people make the connection. Scattered around, in some places we can come across robots that are turned off or "dead" in different postures, vegetation that covers their bodies... when we beat the robots there are different parts of their bodies that end up on the ground... I know that there are a lot of people who are waiting for Project Robot very impatiently on this page, it's a nice feeling to kinda take a trip into the future and having like pre Project Robot vibes 🙂 consider giving a try to Eternal Strands if you don't know what to play right now. there's a demo on Steam and Epic store 👍
I’m very new to ICO and it’s story, so as a bit of an outside perspective, the sarcophagi the do have Yorda’s language on them almost look like they’re made of a different material to the rest of the castle. So it seems like either the castle was build around them, maybe as an object of worship within the culture that came around later on. Or they could have been gifted from another country to help ‘treat’ the horned children. I feel it is more likely that these sarcophagi were created by an ancient culture (one that Yorda is a part of, or descendant of). Potentially one that the queen was originally part of as she does speak the language and has lived for a very long time. It is likely that the current culture discovered the sarcophagi and built the castle around them, which is why the language cannot be found anywhere else within the castle. This is a slightly different theory, but does tie into why Yorda is one of the only people to speak that language. I do wonder if the shadow children, as the remnants of the horned children that were placed in the sarcophagi, are actually used to create new yorda’s. Because ICO (who was placed in a sarcophagi temporarily) did have a vision of Yorda seemingly appearing and waking up from shadow. Almost as if she had just been created. Having him have this vision implies a stronger connection. As there is that glyph of the two people being connected, it could indicate the connection between the horned children and Yorda. That the horned children are sacrificed and fused together to create a new Yorda for the queen to take over. Changing them and alerting them. Likely wiping their memories and instilling new one’s, such as the ancient language. I do apologise if all of this has been widely spoken about or theorised and understood already, like I said, I’m new to all of ICO and haven’t learnt much about its world yet
You have nothing to apologize for such an awesome comment! Yeah whoever built this castle, I believe it always had in mind this room specifically. There's no way you would built such an intricate castle without having that in mind in the first place. It reminds me heavily of ancient pyramids around the world and how they have hidden rooms everywhere. But who made it? This ancient civilization? Maybe the Sarcophagus Room had a completely different objective that was then appropriated by the Queen for her own objectives? Or maybe it was always designed as a sacrificial ritual? Hard to say perhaps. I agree with Yorda being used by the Queen as a sort of "vessel" for her to transfer herself into a new body, hence continuing her existence. For that she needs to make this ritual where a set number of horned boys must be sacrificed and their power is (I'm assuming) "imbued" in the new vessel. This theme seems to be one that is also transferred to SotC & TLG. We see 3 characters (in all 3 games) that are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice in order to maintain their reality, to avoid death all together, prolonging their existence by any means necessary. In the case of TLG & ICO it's even more cruel, I would argue, since it's the life of children that's the main fuel. It's funny how the entire castle is run by water and light...symbols of purity and life...that hide the greatest of darkness and evil. Fitting of the Japanese way of thinking if you ask me. This game deserves a video analysing the castle structure and how it operates tbh!
Cool video, although I think you've missed a really important aspect of the writing system; it is very clearly inspired by early Chinese scripts, esepcially bronze and seal scripts. Some of the characters in the fictional language clearly borrow 1-for-1 likeness of elements from these early scripts, and a lot of fantastical languages in Chinese and Japanese media (like the sacred language in Final Fantasy X), similar to how a lot of fictional and "arcane" alphabets in the West are inspired by Germanic runes. Even the prominence of repeating lines and circled dots is present.
A great point! I totally skipped Asian writing system all together, not a great thing to do at all. And it definitely seems like there are good similarities with Chinese scripts indeed. It's curious since it does feel (to me at least) that Fumito really explores this relationship between Japan & China. Even The Colossi in SotC seem to be somewhat inspired by the Chinese Mythological figure of the Tao Tie and the overall ties between the Japanese & Chinese in terms of an ancient culture.
To me, this reminds me more of Korean alphabet where you place all of your "letters" together in blocks to create words. We can't identify them because they're blocks of letters merged together to create a word, perhaps?
Yes! Egyptian Hieroglyphs do the same thing also, combining different letters to create phrases I believe. It seems like a lot of ancient & new Asian languages do this also like you mention. I totally overlooked this. Should have explored a little more the Asian ancient languages, since it looks like that was a huge source for Yorda's Language.
Parabens pelo conteúdo. Seria muito legal se você fizesse um colab com o João do canal "Lar dos games" Ele também analisa os games do Ueda com essa paixão. Abraços do Brasil.
In SOTC after we kill the 16º colossus, lord emon starts to point his hand at mono and he says some words which really look like he’s praying, that makes me really curious and I never found a translation to that, @Kouto do you know something about these words?
I like the way that you basically is using a digital board, it makes me feel that i'm actually with you discovering things and theorizing
That's awesome to hear :P It's exactly the feeling that I'm trying to aim for! Abraço de Portugal
Ok but what's the software
@@ivanvz lmao, Pureref!
@@theKoutoLMAO, i I was thinking that It should be a progam like notion or obsidian, but if it works, it works
Please! Please! Continue doing this kind of video! About Ico, Shadow, and of course the new coming game too!
Cheers from 日本！
I've been studying japanese for a few years, they definitely look like Egyptian hieroglyphs mixed with kanji to me. Those repetitions of lines also appear in kanji. Some things that stood out to me are the symbol for "C" looks a lot like 血 (chi) meaning blood. The thing you identify at 11:03 looks like 心 (heart) especially when its written in ink. The top of the letter for W looks like the top of 登 (climb) or 発 (depart)
Bottom of N looks like 正 (correct), R looks like the top of 災 (disaster) mixed with 川 (river)
In the past I tried to theorize that the castle wouldn't actually belong to the queen, but being stolen by her instead. I thought the sarcophagi and the idols would have been added later to the castle, and that would be why they'd have the same language/characters from Yorda/Queens language. I started to question this because I think it's strange that the castle have a graveyard with tombstones adorned by horns, and also some statues of horned warriors, so when I finished the game for the first time, I interpreted that the castle would have belonged to Ico's own lineage long ago in the past... but it's difficult to sustain that possibility when the castle archtecture is so well tied to the sacrificial hall, as we can see in MysticOde's videos exploring the details of the castle, also the language/writing use is more complicated than I noticed at first.
I don't know, I like to imagine, nowadays, that the castle was populated once by horned people serving a lineage of kings and queens that, at some point, discovers the whole Dormin shit contained in their bodies and betrays them, in order to absorb their magical properties and live forever. Then the horned servants may have run away, I don't know... In the end, what really matters is what we can invent from these holes in the macro narrative.
I really enjoy that theory about the map and the SOTC map kind of coinciding. Great work
Amazing video
Do bare in mind I've never played this particular game so here are just some observations/ ideas I've made while watching.
Idea 1: The language was never written and is passed down through spoken word more often then not, similar to ancient languages such as Brythonic/ Brittonic.
Idea 2: The subtitles are a 'what if' scenario of what would said language be like if it were written down.
Idea 3: All the symbols refer to 3 main themes, alive, natural and man made, the ones that have a defined eye B, D, G, H ,etc. Could be things that they seen as being sentient or having some sort of divinity/ holy nature.
Idea 4: All the instances of written language are a commoner version used by lower classes whereas what was spoken by royalty would be a higher form of the same language/ more refined, but never written.
Idea 5: The sarcophagus I think depicts 2 parents praying or begging over the loss of a child (I think indirectly since I would imagine most cultures seeing their children as divine/ special/ sentient), the box above depicting the sarcophagus itself and a something escaping like a soul, or it could be a prophesy for the child to escape.
The '2 connected humans' could be enemies of the realm that have been bound together.
I personally think that a big inspiration for the characters was chinese Oracle Bone, Bronze and especially Seal Script.
Chinese has multiple sources for the Hanzi characters, though the relevant ones in this case are the pictograms and possibly ideograms.
Looking at characters with clear pictographic basis, the logographic design is similar to the Yorda script. In the cases of characters like [M]ountain (山) and [R]iver (川) they even partially resembles the real world Hanzi characters for these words.
Similar arguments could be made for [B]ird (鳥), [E]ast (東), [I]/Eye (目) and [T]ree (木) - especially looking at their Bronze or Seal Script iterations.
As such, I think that while the connection to Hieroglyphics is reasonable and understandable as they share pictographic basis, the connection to Runic and Sumerian alphabets seems far more strenuous.
Indeed! Some people also mentioned this and I definitely overlooked Asian ancient (and cotemporary) languages that do seem to draw a lot of similarities.
i'm playing a game that just came out right now, Eternal Strands, and it's funny, sometimes I feel like I have pre-Project Robot vibes considering what we know about the game so far. In Eternal Strands there are giant robots that we fight a bit like those in SOTC, we climb on them etc. many people make the connection. Scattered around, in some places we can come across robots that are turned off or "dead" in different postures, vegetation that covers their bodies... when we beat the robots there are different parts of their bodies that end up on the ground... I know that there are a lot of people who are waiting for Project Robot very impatiently on this page, it's a nice feeling to kinda take a trip into the future and having like pre Project Robot vibes 🙂
consider giving a try to Eternal Strands if you don't know what to play right now. there's a demo on Steam and Epic store 👍
I feels like watching a dig site in the game world. Very exciting! hahahaahha ⭐⭐⭐⭐
I’m very new to ICO and it’s story, so as a bit of an outside perspective, the sarcophagi the do have Yorda’s language on them almost look like they’re made of a different material to the rest of the castle. So it seems like either the castle was build around them, maybe as an object of worship within the culture that came around later on. Or they could have been gifted from another country to help ‘treat’ the horned children.
I feel it is more likely that these sarcophagi were created by an ancient culture (one that Yorda is a part of, or descendant of). Potentially one that the queen was originally part of as she does speak the language and has lived for a very long time. It is likely that the current culture discovered the sarcophagi and built the castle around them, which is why the language cannot be found anywhere else within the castle.
This is a slightly different theory, but does tie into why Yorda is one of the only people to speak that language. I do wonder if the shadow children, as the remnants of the horned children that were placed in the sarcophagi, are actually used to create new yorda’s. Because ICO (who was placed in a sarcophagi temporarily) did have a vision of Yorda seemingly appearing and waking up from shadow. Almost as if she had just been created. Having him have this vision implies a stronger connection. As there is that glyph of the two people being connected, it could indicate the connection between the horned children and Yorda. That the horned children are sacrificed and fused together to create a new Yorda for the queen to take over. Changing them and alerting them. Likely wiping their memories and instilling new one’s, such as the ancient language.
I do apologise if all of this has been widely spoken about or theorised and understood already, like I said, I’m new to all of ICO and haven’t learnt much about its world yet
You have nothing to apologize for such an awesome comment!
Yeah whoever built this castle, I believe it always had in mind this room specifically. There's no way you would built such an intricate castle without having that in mind in the first place. It reminds me heavily of ancient pyramids around the world and how they have hidden rooms everywhere. But who made it? This ancient civilization? Maybe the Sarcophagus Room had a completely different objective that was then appropriated by the Queen for her own objectives? Or maybe it was always designed as a sacrificial ritual? Hard to say perhaps.
I agree with Yorda being used by the Queen as a sort of "vessel" for her to transfer herself into a new body, hence continuing her existence. For that she needs to make this ritual where a set number of horned boys must be sacrificed and their power is (I'm assuming) "imbued" in the new vessel.
This theme seems to be one that is also transferred to SotC & TLG. We see 3 characters (in all 3 games) that are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice in order to maintain their reality, to avoid death all together, prolonging their existence by any means necessary. In the case of TLG & ICO it's even more cruel, I would argue, since it's the life of children that's the main fuel.
It's funny how the entire castle is run by water and light...symbols of purity and life...that hide the greatest of darkness and evil. Fitting of the Japanese way of thinking if you ask me.
This game deserves a video analysing the castle structure and how it operates tbh!
Cool video, although I think you've missed a really important aspect of the writing system; it is very clearly inspired by early Chinese scripts, esepcially bronze and seal scripts. Some of the characters in the fictional language clearly borrow 1-for-1 likeness of elements from these early scripts, and a lot of fantastical languages in Chinese and Japanese media (like the sacred language in Final Fantasy X), similar to how a lot of fictional and "arcane" alphabets in the West are inspired by Germanic runes. Even the prominence of repeating lines and circled dots is present.
A great point! I totally skipped Asian writing system all together, not a great thing to do at all. And it definitely seems like there are good similarities with Chinese scripts indeed. It's curious since it does feel (to me at least) that Fumito really explores this relationship between Japan & China. Even The Colossi in SotC seem to be somewhat inspired by the Chinese Mythological figure of the Tao Tie and the overall ties between the Japanese & Chinese in terms of an ancient culture.
To me, this reminds me more of Korean alphabet where you place all of your "letters" together in blocks to create words. We can't identify them because they're blocks of letters merged together to create a word, perhaps?
Yes! Egyptian Hieroglyphs do the same thing also, combining different letters to create phrases I believe. It seems like a lot of ancient & new Asian languages do this also like you mention. I totally overlooked this. Should have explored a little more the Asian ancient languages, since it looks like that was a huge source for Yorda's Language.
what if the queen made up a language and taught yorda it, in an attempt to isolate yorda by being the only one able to verbally communicate with her??
Parabens pelo conteúdo. Seria muito legal se você fizesse um colab com o João do canal "Lar dos games" Ele também analisa os games do Ueda com essa paixão. Abraços do Brasil.
In SOTC after we kill the 16º colossus, lord emon starts to point his hand at mono and he says some words which really look like he’s praying, that makes me really curious and I never found a translation to that, @Kouto do you know something about these words?
hold up she kinda bad tho