It almost definitely is a shared universe, but you could make the argument it's simply reused assets, or just a style and aesthetic design the studio likes.
Its hard to call Dormin an antagonist or villain without evidence. Evil power sure but not necessarily evil intent. Wander seeked him out, Dormin not only kept his word in the deal but warned Wander of a heavy price, its not like he way trying to scheme him into manipulation, he was being upfront and Wander complied because for him anything was worth it. All we have of the danger of Dormin is stories, of which Wander himself did not fully believe. In the end we only see him lashing out on the ones who banished him for revenge, he didn't speak of any evil plans. The characters that banished him show high signs of ignorance and fear, perhaps why they banished him to begin with and why Wander went against them in this mission, since his girl was also sacrificed. If anything its Wander's people who seem like the real troublemakers more than anyone.
Good point, to add to that you see the villagers in the last guardian who have a great fear of the Trico species. However throughout the game you begin to see the dichotomy between those Trico that are controlled and the companion, who is not. The villagers seem to be in a perpetual state of fear for those things they do not understand. Additionally The Master Of The Valley would seem similar to Dormin in that he tasks the Trico species to retrieve children, he requires physical exertion and a sacrifice of them, plus a level of manipulation is involved. In turn he provides them with their sustenance, same type of tradeoff that Dormin exhibits.
To be honest with you, if I had a loved one slain in some ritualistic or religious ritual such as the events here, I wouldn’t hesitate to find ways, if I’m in that world, to bring the person back. In my eyes, Emon, the head shaman in SOTC, had caused this and Wander is trying to bring back a loved one. So gg.
I completely agree. What looks like the "ICO" castle can be seen in both "The Last Guardian" & "Shadow Of The Colossus". If this is correct, then time wise, both of those games take place prior to the castle in "ICO" falling apart & sinking under the water
@@timmadone8930 and we know for a fact that Shadow of the Colossus is a prequel to ICO, which places The Last Guardian before or adjacent to Shadow on the timeline.
@@ashb712 It's a bit hard to decide, though; going by the idea that Ico is from a LONG lineage of horned children started by Wander, that would mean dozens of generations separate the two games' events despite there being little to no progression in technology (human characters in SotC more or less have the same technology as the characters in ICO and TLG). With that in mind, though, *I think it's safest to assume The Last Guardian does take place before Shadow of the Colossus, although not by a lot of years* like Charles Boyce said; one of the barrels containing light and/or life essence fed to the Tricos can be found in a cave just before fighting Barba (the 6th colossi), indicating that the Master of the Valley's practices were occuring before Wander set foot in the Forbidden Land. The fact that one of the Master's barrels even exists there might even mean that *the Master of the Valley and Dormin colluded with one another,* considering I doubt a high-and-mighty god like Dormin would tolerate another powerful entity capturing his worshippers for sacrifice without his say-so. *HOWEVER,* given that the barrel of life essence found in SotC is still in somewhat good condition (and not, you know, rotted and worn down) means that it hasn't been in the Forbidden Land for more than a few years before Wander began his quest to revive Mono there. So, here's the most likely timeline of games: *The Last Guardian* --> several years after the Master's defeat by the boy and stopping the production of light-containing barrels --> *Shadow of the Colossus* --> likely a dozen generations of horned boys sired by Wander --> *ICO.*
The issue being is the technology in The Last Guardian, which seems to be more complex than what we saw in SOTC, which was limited to the glowing horns of some colossi and the beam sword. I would think The Last Guardian is set as a separate story between SOTC and Ico, but I don’t have much evidence to really prove that. That’s my view.
Another common thread I've noticed is how each game begins with the protagonist desperately trying to reverse their curse fate- or in the case of SOTC, the curse fate of the one they love. Whether they know it or not, their transgressions always seem to begin and end with an act of sacrifice. It's the fear of isolation, the need for companionship, and the willingness to sacrifice that ties all of these games together thematically. For me, there is no overarching story or grand narrative that connects these games together. Rather, its about understanding the themes presented in each story and recognizing the beauty in their simplicity. Underneath the veneer of these fantastical and mysterious worlds, are human stories told by the most unconventional story tellers of their medium.
That's a really beautiful way of looking at it and a perfect example of the sort of "equally legitimate interpretation" that I referred to in the video.
The theory I came up with places the Last Guardian before Shadow of the Colossus. The civilization discovered how to pull the light energy out of people, which is what ran the magical things in their kingdom, but the dark energy they couldn't control, so they tried to contain it. However, that dark energy became conscious, and seized control over their technology, and started using the Trico to gather more and more sacrifices to build its power. The Master of the Valley is this dark entity, and the structure we see it contained in is where it was originally contained. Under the threat of extinction via sacrifice, the people were forced to evacuate their lands, moving further and further away to try to escape the Tricos. But speaking of the Trico, they seem to be naturally peaceful, but they're under the influence of the Master of the Valley, and I believe the armor serves the purpose of helping to extend the duration of that influence. The strange cage-like rooms which emit the pulses that make Trico eat you are the means by which the Trico are commanded, but the armor somehow focuses that energy, extending its effect. That is why at the beginning of the Last Guardian when the weary Trico is struck by lightning, and then crashes to the ground, breaking its armor from its body, it shakes off the control of the Master of the Valley, and why when it is given the new commands in the cage-rooms, why it retreats to a safe location to regurgitate the boy instead of taking him all the way to the top of the tower. So at the end of the Last Guardian, I think the Master of the Valley's containment and essence extractor are destroyed, prompting it to re-locate to the Temple we will later encounter in Shadows of the Colossus. There this shadow entity founds a cult, depicting itself as a god, "proving" its claims by showing power over life and death by manipulating the light and dark energies. But then these people eventually encounter the survivors of the civilization responsible for the creation of this shadow entity, and in light of the threat posed, the cult is dispanded, and the survivors of the original civilization use their light-based magic items (including shields and swords) contain the shadow creature, now referring to itself ad "Dormin". Dormin's essence is split and bound to the land, creating the Colossai. The region containing these Colossai is vacated, and access to it is made forbidden. But the survivors of the original civilization continue to power their light-based magic through sacrifices. After one such sacrifice, Wanderer steals the sword and the recently sacrificed girl and bring them to Dormin in the hopes of having her resurrected. After the events of the game, Wanderer grows up and has a family, some of which are born with horns, reminiscent of those he recieved after his extensive contact with Dormin. By this point the people had stopped sacrificing people to power their technologies, having noticed just in time that they were on the verge of creating another Dormin-like entity. However, they feared the threat of Dormin's return, which they saw in the descendants of Wanderer, and as such they took these children to an ancient fortress where they would be contained in sarcophagi, utilizing the last of the light-magic they'd had stored. But unknown to them, the queen who ruled over the castle had made a deal with Dormin, and instead of containing the essences of the children, she used the ancient technologies to harvest them, bringing Dormin closer to fully re-emerging in the material world. Then the events of Ico happen.
the only thing i disagree with you is " But the survivors of the original civilization continue to power their light-based magic through sacrifices." I don't think that's true. What i think happened is, the shaman foresaw the coming back of Dormin and that the girl was the cause of it, they sacrificed her to prevent it from happening but wander couldn't bear such atrocity so he went there to revive her causing the vision that the shaman had to become truth. The rest is on point and i agree 100% with your theory.
The way I took it was that they're each different eras of the same civilization and the god of that world just went by different names throughout the ages. Making the Master of the Valley, Dormin, and The Queen different iterations of the same being. The similar architecture would insinuate that it's all from the same civilization.
Man, I am completely convinced that SotC is a prequel to ICO by x years, but I am sitting awake wondering how in the Hell TLG fits into the universe. Don't get me wrong, I think that it is IN the universe, but when? Does the Boy have any significance? What are the Master of the Valley and the Tricos? Also, somebody needs to start a ICO PS4 remaster petition.
Reid Parker well, the part about it being made by the witch, I don’t have much to go on because I never played ICO. But I do think it’s just a machine. When you encounter it, it doesn’t try to talk to you or anything. It really only attacks when you try to stop it from doing what it was doing. It doesn’t come across as sentient, but more like an program with a single purpose.
shizuwolf Yeah, I agree. My perspective has changed since I wrote my original comment: the Valley is a crash site for a alien ship (the weird white tower) around which a civilization was built. People were being harvested for their intristic white and dark energies; which caused the civilization to fall apart. The Master of the Valley is an AI to continue the process, and the dark energy is stored in the sarcophagus where the shield is. After you destroy the Master of the Valley, the dark energy gains sentience as "Dormin" and heads off far away to spend the next few hundred years making a name for itself. Then, SotC happens.
I read somewhere a theory I found interesting about how The Last Guardian hints the origins of the cult of Dormin. Once the White Tower/Nest collapsed and so did the machinery that kept the place operational, the Tricos not being controlled anymore had no choice but to regurgitate their most recently captures -aka the children w/ marks on their bodies instead of offering them to the Nest. These people could had gathered and formed their own society, then started their own religion based on the worship of a collective entity formed by the first settlers of this new town (the marked people). Remember that Dormin referred to himself as 'we' in SOTC and had both masculine and feminine voice. It's not an obvious reference as the baby with horns at the end of SOTC, but it sounds like a reasonable and an interesting possibility to me.
I dont think they are being used as fuel as much as a trade. Being pushed through.. the between.. and so it doesnt require people to be simply killed, just have their souls apply pressure like a key. That process can easily have a ton of consequences and give those marked people insentive based on powers they learn of and how it had effected their minds. The question is why do they fail to blend it into a more wide spread population. It seems like only specific points in the world allow these things to happen.
I've assumed that the Master of the Valley uses the children as fuel, and what it gives out in the barrels is a waste product of sorts. Like, the Master used everything in the children it could use, and packed the stuff it couldn't into the barrels. So that stuff, although tinged blue by the processes of the Master, is far more nutritious than a normal human, because of concentration and stuff. I'd go into it further, but I'm currently planning my own video.
My theory for what is happening is as follows: Shadow Of The Colossus is a prequel like Ueda said, due to Wander becoming the first horned boy at the end, and I would like you to take note of the fact that in Shadow Of The Colossus, there's a beach that looks extremely similar to Ico's Beach during the watermelon ending. As I was saying, Wander becomes the first horned boy, and Mono, who was reincarnated using Dormin's dark magic, needs to harvest the dark energy of the cursed horned children in order to sustain her existence as a dark reanimation. That's right, she sacrifices Wander, but his curse persists, infecting child after child. The people of the Village, fearing the return of Dormin, make a deal with Mono, now the Queen. She would take the horned boys and keep the village safe, unbeknownst to the Village people, she was harvesting these boys to sustain herself, until Ico arrived. Ico struggled against his doomed fate and escaped the Queen clutches, obtaining the Queen's Sword, most likely a reforging of the Ancient Sword or a different sword entirely, and slays the Queen, escaping the tower as it collapses and Yorda inherits the Queen's power. Alternatively, in the Watermelon ending, the beach that Ico and Yorda appear on is in none other than The Forbidden Lands themselves. And it all ended where it started, or so it would seem. Truthfully, I don't know when the events of the Last Guardian happen, but I do know this, the village that the protagonist is from is different from the Village in Ico and SOTC, and I know that due to the lack of the cloaks that Ico, Wander, and The Shaman wore. Also, something noteworthy, the protagonist of TLG ends up in a valley controlled by a dark being. Now look at Colossus, Wander enters the Forbidden Lands and the only way in is a bridge. It's a sheer drop. It's a *valley* . I think The Last Guardian tells an eerily familiar yet different tale, about a cursed boy who awakens in a strange place and attempts to escape with a new companion. Both the Valley and The Forbidden Lands are ruled by dark creatures who were sealed away be humans. Dormin, when he was split into 16 pieces, and the Master, who was trapped in an ancient temple with the mirror to defeat him if need be. I think these stories are about dark magical beings who rule over parts of the world (be it valleys, castles, etc) who are defeated by humanity but still dwell in the shadows, Shadow Of Colossus showed us what happens to humans who make deals with devils and risk everything to bring back people they love. Ico showed us the aftermath of the deal with aforementioned devil, and how a desire to bring someone back can twist them. And The Last Guardian showed us that Dormin wasn't the only dark being that was sealed away in a forgotten land..... I love these games with all my heart, and though I may not have played all of them, I still care deeply about them. Truthfully, though, I don't think we'll see another game from Team Ico, as much as I'd love that final puzzle piece to piece it all together, I think I just have to be happy with what I have. These games are very personal for me, and very nostalgic, and I just want to say that they are some of the best things I have ever seen. If you disagree with my theory, let me know what you see wrong so I can fix it. Thank you for reading until this point, and Thank you Team Ico for making these wonderful, beautiful games.......
This is the most likely and thought through explanation I've heard. I just see one flaw. The Trico's weren't created after the humans fled the valley. There are statues of them throughout the city, showing they were there with the humans. I think their original purpose was to help with construction.
I know I'm quite late to the party now, but I appreciate this thoughtful video about the connection between these games. My only contribution is that I have a different interpretation of the villagers. I can't recall Ico exactly because it's been a while, but I feel like the villagers in each game haven't rebelled against the powers of the valley/nest/etc., but more that they are complicit in the system those powers have imposed on them, making sacrifices in an attempt to appease that power. Each game seems like a story about young people rebelling against the entire system that has failed them. The story of TLG does contradict this a little, as the villagers don't play a direct role in the sacrifice. I think I see this as perhaps reflecting a parallel change of heart in the creators, who might be able to better empathize with the elders of a powerless community as they have themselves aged and had more life experience.
It's a reverse trilogy. After the events of the last guardian the sword was created, it was kept a place where nobody could find it. Wanderer finds it and steals it in the Demise of his loved one and heads to the land of the last guardian. After the events of SOTC, if you remember when Dormin talked. It was not only a mans voice but a woman and Dormin considered itself as we not I. The male version comes back as wanderer and dies, but what was half is now one is mono when she wakes up at the end...she goes on to become the queen in ICO hence the mortal part of the story is love. For some reason children are rarely born with horns due to this Adam and Eve story. A descendent of her creation of children (ICO) rebels against his known destiny and falls in love with the queens daughter...rescuing her she sacrifices herself for his well being survival. The end of the story.
The room where the mirror is found is the same place where mono was resting until she awoke, and that room is also the same room where the children were sacrificed in ICO, the land is the same just each chapter takes place years after the next. Why it was cold where the mirror is found, why it is open and jungle like where mono rests and where it is inclosed and only able to get thru by water in ICO.
Robbie-Paul Baines no it’s in the same universe and time line the last guardian is the first part of the story SOTC is the second part and ICO is the third,when dormin took Control of wonder and turned into a colossus and died wonder was reborn as a baby with horns and the baby grows and lived on as Ico which is why he also has horns and is wearing the same type of tunic that wonder wears
My theory is that Dormin once used the master of the valley to control the humans which lead to the civilization seen in the nest. Dormin also created the Tricos to serve as attack/guard dogs over the humans and the animated armour to control the Tricos. A group of humans rebelled against Dormin and fled the nest and established civilization elsewhere such as the one in TLG and from this village the shaman who shattered Dormin. The sixteen pieces were scattered to the forbidden land in the South. The Tricos continued to do their master's bidding for the next X amount of years and during this time the ancient sword was passed down to the shaman from SOTC. The events of TLG occur during this time. Shadow's shaman later sacrifices Mono and his student Wander (who would have been taught of spiritual matters by his teacher) sets off to bring her back. Cue SOTC's events. After Wander is reduced to an infant Mono takes care of him and discovers a nearby castle. Later becoming the evil Queen and Wander the first of the shadow children. The descendants of TLG's boy become the horned children due to their ancestors contact with Dormin's creations. Cue Ico. That's just my theory and how I've pieced it together.
I really liked your interpretation. Very interesting indeed. I fucking love these games, I pray for an Ico Remaster so I can play the holy trinity on my PS4.
I feel like the more notiacable one is about the ying-yang of darkness and light, it somehow seems to make the most sense when linked with the colour turquoise. There's something about this colour, it could be the colour to show that this is a magical property of goodness, light, or power. As mentioned, the colossi are made of the same entity, the same power, and through the cracks in their skin, turquoise shows. Their eyes also glow turquoise at times (mostly), and so do virtually all of the shadow creatures/living beings. (e.g. Demon Wander, Dormin, The Knights, Trico from time to time, The Shadow Children). But I think there's something more to this. The Master of The Valley, in fact, glows turquoise, and bears symbols, like the little boy. So do the symbols when you're captured by the Knights, and when the rest of Trico's race put the children into some sort of food dispenser. It seems to be some sort of ancient or forbidden magic. The Master of The Valley's symbols not only are very similar or the same to the boy's, this could possibly mean that, when the boys are put into the food dispenser and the barrel shoots out, the barrel is full of the turquoise (which could be their life essence). But the question is- the horned children are put into the sarcophagus and the life energy is sucked out of them to keep the queen alive, then the children are turned into the Shadow Children. It could be the same with the guards and the Master of The Valley. The children could have the life energy sucked out of them, then turned into Shadow Creatures. The energy could be sucked in by the Master of The Valley, to keep it the most powerful being there, so it is not overridden. Then, the darkness which is left over, could most likely be suited and controlled by the Master of The Valley. Just a theory.
the connection I see is that wander reborn with horns is the first of the horned children, therefore ico is decedent of wander, along with the other sacrifices in that game, and the last guardian is you playing as a young Lord Emon who was the shaman that sealed away wander in shadow of the colossus. Along with all shadow, light, and cultural connections. Good video.
My theory (spoiler alert) I believe that the games order goes last guardian, shadow of the colossus, ico Once upon a time there was a civilisation of people. They had a ruler who passed but in an effort to bring their leader back they placed him/her in the sarcophagus where you get the mirror and created the master of the valley (who I believe is dormin). They captured children and placed them into the bird statue at the top of the tower, giving dormin the shadow portion, thus increasing his power, and ejecting the light portion as the glowing liquid in the barrels. One day dormin decided to take control of the tricos to automate the process, thus killing all of the citizens of the valley. Then The events of the last guardian happened, and when dormin explodes his essence is sent to the forbidden lands and the valley is destroyed. The forbidden lands contained a large supply of light energy and fused with dormins dark energy forming the colossi. Lord eamon found out about the incident and banned access to the area. Then the events of shadow of the colossus happened. Wander(is that how you spell it?) becomes a horned child carrying the essence of dormin. When mono and baby wander return to their village the essence spreads, creating the horned children . The rest is basically what he said in the video about ico. Then the events of ico happen. And so far the end. Tell me what you think (I'm open to complements and criticism)
Kyra Porreca It could be that Wander and Ico are the same person, given that when Wander's age regresses he keeps his horns as a child, and Ico is younger than Wander (I think). Plus Shadow of the Colossus is a prequel. And, the two different swords could actually be the same sword, which is somehow linked to Wander/Ico
@@adambell5781 a fun idea but not really true when you remember wander is the first horned child, the beginning of the curse, and in Ico the curse has gone on for so long the queen has a hundred horned boys souls already and sacrificing them has become a generational tradition. so they're rather far from each other time wise.
I know this is old but, thank you man. Im a lifelong shadow of the colossus lover, it was my very first game back when i got a ps2 and got every remake since. Each time i platinumed it i tried to figure out some lore beyond whats there and came up short, im so satisfied with this theory.
Okay, I'm a bit late, but I found two things. Firstly, there is both a TLG Easter egg and an ICO Easter egg in SOTC. Secondly, when finding the 7th Collosus in SOTC you come across the temple. Outside the temple you see butterflies that are the EXACT same as the ones in TLG. hope u see this comment :)
I have always thought that when Mono was resurrected, she came back with the female half of Dormin inside of her which later led to her becoming the queen from ico thus realizing her cursed fate.
Max, this is brilliant! I just barely wiped my tears after completing The Last Guardian and this video looked at the Team Ico trilogy in a very interresting way I would never think of on my own. It's nice to reflect on these beautiful worlds and their stories after you complete the games, I almost consider it as additional content (same with VaatiVidya and Fromsoft games, for example). Myabe I'm wrong, but I noticed you have a tinge of irritance in your voice when you mention comments and people having their own interpretations. Are there that many people willing to "correct" you on your particular version, albeit it's just speculation? Anyway, thank you very much!
When the game was first announced at e3 (when it was meant to be released on PS3, before the years of delays and possible cancellation) the game was codenamed as ‘Project Trico’. We all assumed back then it was just Tri (three) Ico. Kinda cool
The opening narration of Shadow of the Colossus also references the forbidden land as a place where there is a being that controls creatures made from light. I believe this being to be Dormin considering there is no other being in the valley. Also Dormin first appears to the player as a beam of light coming in through the temple and only appears as a shadow when he is fully formed. This adds a massive amount of credence to your theory.
Max, just wow, this explanation was wonferfull. I played these three games countless times, focusing on every little detail, up until the middle, it wasnt something new, but after this point, you mind blowed me. Just like usual max, thanks for the all the hard work and great videos.
It would seem that all of the structures were abandoned, not built by whatever evil power inhabits it at that point in time, one indicator is their general state of decay, the second indicator is that both massive cities/castles in ICO and TLG were under construction when abandoned, in both games you see huge sets of scaffolding and cranes used to lift materials or whatever else they needed, all of which seems as if it was hastily abandoned, and all of which is in the same state of decay as the rest of the completed structures. One has to wonder if it was the power (Dormin, The Queen, and The Master of the Valley) which drove the previous inhabitants out of the structures in ICO and TLG. The Temple in SOTC was either not abandoned but constructed to contain Dormin, or was abandoned and was later used as a pre existing structure to house what small part was left of Dormin that wasn't placed into the colossi. It is most likely that Dormin was not split up by Lord Eamon himself, due to the average lifespan of a human, (which may differ in this universe), and the evident age in all the structures in the forbidden lands. That age and the obvious wear and tear speak of hundreds of years, therefore it is my belief that the ancestors of Lord Eamon were the first to imprison Dormin, then that lore and responsibility of the sword was passed down from generation to generation to ensure that no one trespassed on the forbidden lands. Additionally it is pretty clear that the colossi imprisonment was intentional and manmade, not some random dispersion of Dormin. That intention is made most clear in the final colossus, but is also evident in the 3rd, which is imprisoned on a giant platform suspended in the sky and surrounded by water, making it relatively impossible for him to leave. The final colossus was obviously designed to have the ranged power that he has, as evidenced by the network of barricades and tunnels that give access to him, during his construction the builders knew they would need a way of accessing the giant to either finish construction, or as a way to leave once he was brought to life. His power and intelligence were designed to be above that of all the rest, and to ensure those attributes did not allow him to overcome walls or gates, they settled on the simple solution of encasing him in a gigantic skirt that was heavy enough that he couldn't move around or escape, as well as encasing his feet in giant metal shoes and affixing them to the ground. In short it would seem as if most of the storyline, structures, antagonists, and characters are the result of some ancient civilization of humans. In some way they manipulated some power, and something turned against them causing widespread death and evacuation, those who escaped fled and started over, as a result the technology, history, and workings of that society were lost, and only small bits and pieces remain, one of those being the lore and sword surrounding Dormin and the forbidden lands. We'll really have to wait and see what Fumito Udea has in mind.
The thing with SOTC is that there was the original religion of Dormin, but other followers began to worship another religion, which angered Dormin, that huge shadow being. He became aggressive then the people sealed him away with the sword he into sixteen different parts, which the Colossi were created to hold each part. After Wander killed all of the Colossi, he released the Dormin into one, which brought him back. I don’t think anyone was sacrificed to make the different shadow people of Dormin.
I think it's more that these games are linked by motif's and themes rather than strict continuity. But, that's whats great about these three games is that it is open enough for fun speculations like these. Maybe that's all the connection they need.
The 12th colossus no longer has a turquoise glow on it's horns in the PS4 remake. To make up for that, the Queens Sword in the PS4 remake now has a turquoise glow where as in the PS2 & PS3 versions it doesn't. Just something I was thinking about while watching this video again. The fact that we are given so little info about these games & the worlds they inhabit, is a big part of why they are still being discussed & analyzed all these years later.
What if the Trico species are Colossi? Just not with all that Dormin juice. What if there ARE species, and multiple ones, we just don't see the others. Just the one that sealed Dormin off by acting as walking cages. I don't know, I ain't no theorist.
Jedi MB I don't think so. The colossi always appeared to be armored creatures with the same fur; and remember they weren't really animaks at all...just Dormin's fragments.
The Colossi are made out of the earth and serve one purpose. To guard Dormins soul. They keep each part of Dormins soul trapped with in their own prison to protect the forbidden lands. Trico is a different.
So when Shaman tosses the sword into the water in the shrine of worship, I believe it creates a spell that tries to eliminate the dark essense of the religion you spoke of, and since dormin inhabited wander, he is sucked into the water. I think this is why wander gets smaller until he is his original size. I think it's mostly sucking in dormin, but I think it's also trying to suck in wander too, since he committed crimes within the Forbidden lands, so that's why he falls in as well. I think wander is turned into a baby since there is still some good in him, and he was just reduced to his most innocent form. But, he also has horns which confused me at first. When I thought about it, I came to the idea that the horns represent a good side of dormin. I believe there was still good in him since he decided to ressurect mono, which he could have easily ignored since he was just using wander to ressurect himself anyway. So the baby represents the innocence of dormin and wander, but is primarily wander. I really like the way you interpreted it as well, and nice video.
My head cannon is as follows : Shadow of the colossus->Ico->The Last Guardian The girl that Wander revives grows to become the queen from Ico (Hence why they wanted to kill her in the first place, but oops...is that a self-fulfilling prophecy I see?), and Ico/ the horned children are descendants of reincarnated horny Wander. And that somehow leads to The Last Guardian. I never said it was perfect, but I'm working on it. Love your videos dude! The care & hard work put in them shows!
Is it Weird that i LOVE the Mysterious worlds that Team Ico makes and enjoy Theorizing about them and the Timeline But have never ONCE played ANY of their Games?
@@eternalawait365 i actually bought Shadow Of The Colossus Remake and The Last Guardian on the PS4 last month cause they were on sale. But ive been so busy with my job and my channel that i havnt gotten around to playing them yet. Hopefully things will ease up soon so i can Finaly play them. Maybe ill even play them on my channel.
Whats funny is after all the trouble Wander did to bring Dormin back Lord Emon pretty easily sealed him back away. Like for someone whose that major of a threat he got deal with pretty easily.
I really agree with this theory, that really fit nicely with mine : The final tower of the last guardian is clearly some sort of parasite/ IA / selfaware entity that has only one goal : use whatever means to survivre and prosper. Being trapped in this huge tower, it corrupted the lands around it. the pieces of armor you fight are clearly, has you said : shadows inside them. bieng bound to the junk remnants of old armors with the evil magic / energy taken from the souls of the kids. clearly the other part of the ruins in the game are not from the same time period as the biggest tower, set in the centre of thie big hole, almost like a crashed UFO. then the ruins around it are recycled into some sort of evil factory to enslaved "Tricos" to bring more juice, to create more evil armors etc etc. The real free tricos do not have horns, it seems not. horns grow the same way they did in Shadow of... : by the ingestion by the "bad" energy. the barrels are souls of dead kids, and in SOTC killing those colosses. the complex machinery / helmet / traps being used to control Tricos seem a bit out of space and time in this Universe. builds by the evil armor and not original parts of the ruins around it. We are coming back to my UFO/ ancien aliens theory here because technology from the evil entity is clearly more advanced that the villages of the protagonist. nothing found in this world can build the reactor we go through in the game. the mirror we use is a very strange artifact that might be also an advanced pieces of technology from this IA race. it seems to be unique in the game and only have use as a key in the last tower and not the other ruins. Tricos might be some mutated animals engeneered by the AI to be perfect / easy to use slaves. their changing colors eyes seems also robotic, compared to their normal black color. the fact that they react strongly in a strange way to simple things such as a smell or a mirror in the shape of an eye does not seems natural to me. in the end when they all died / fall as soon as the IA is off seems to show that they are not made to be able to survive is left alone. Trico that manage to overide the power of this IA near the end of the game, this is why he survived. How did he do it ? I don't think this is because of all the barrels we feed him, but probably the boy's love.
I really like your theory and I agree with a lot of it. I also found myself trying to explain why the white tower is so clearly out of place with the rest of the ruins, and I absolutely agree that the Tricos' horns seem to be a product of the turquoise goo. The one problem I have, however, is that the ruins have Trico statues in them. To me, it seemed like the Tricos must have been worshipped by whatever society existed there previously. It makes me wonder what their relationship with the people was, and how it developed into them being weaponized to use to gather fuel. I don't think the ruins were abandoned when the MotV "appeared". The backstory of this game is so fascinating. I'm so ready for a prequel! So many mysteries!
Yohann Junique You like robots and ai and technology and all that crap because thats your thing but if you see the game more closely those tricos died because they were controlled by an evil spirit/demon not an IA lmao
@@latioswarr3785 Very late reply, but I read that the story was about nature vs computers/AI. So, I guess they did mean something about beings slaves to the electronics, even we when we play it. Kinda interesting, but could have been made a bit clearer, for even even this story is not the clearest in the game, but it defintly makes sense. Slaves to the IA, we are like the Trico's, acting as our "master" likes us to do..
I just finished playing The Last Guardian for the first time today. July, 2024. It got me thinking about the possible connections. I am inclined to agree with the remarks made in your theory. Thanks for this video.
I would also mention a common thematic thing in all three games is having a companion. In Ico it's Yorda, in SotC it's Agro and in the Last Guardian it's the monster. It's always an important component that the protagonist isn't alone on his adventure.
mono's cursed fate is to become the queen(ico) as she was ritually euthanized by lord emon. dormin(nico) is sleeping and ancient deity of the land and was returned to sleep by the ancient sword. the master of the valley(trico) is the remaining power of the queen after her death, as dormin is bound to sleep by the holy sword there should be no dormin's fragment that can influence the forbidden lands.
I think last guardian happens before SotC and SotC happens before ico with last guardians city sort of Being the founding/birth place of this sacrificial religion or way of life and dormin and the queen are offshoots basically trying to do the same thing in different places, attempted in different ways, and are destroyed in different ways. I also think that the reborn wander is the first of the boys with horns that would later be taken by the queen. I think they work very well as a trilogy except chronologically they are backwards
I also think trico and the colossi where probably created in very similar ways whether it be from stone as u said in a previous video or off shoots off forming/the almighty being at the end of last guardian
Has anyone ever considered that maybe wander becomes an unknown entity himself after his rebirth? And maybe he reincarnated in Ico to stop dormin again? Maybe that’s him “Atoning for his sin” as the shaman said
I would like to add to your theory! The Master of the Valley is a sentient A.I./ superior being of pure energy that crash landed on this world after already exhausting all the life energy in whatever world it originated in. It clearly looks geometrical and “technological” like a hive mind of swarming nanobots or something.
wow I'm so glad you brought this up. I like to explore more into your theory by adding the people. besides the dark entities in all three games the ruin's ask a question. The people who made them. Yodas and the Queen may be the last of their kind. like elves they both have innate powers which happens to be dark or blue light. the humans living outside the Valley, Castle, or nest are more but stock for the beings the live there once. good question what happen to them. looks like they had power but now everything is lay in ruin and decay. what may happen?
My thoughts are pretty close to this. I didn't go into depth about light and dark, but I did see that the "magic" used in every game is very similar and all seemed to work through sacrifice. So I believe all games exist in the same world, and if Guardian isn't directly related to Ico's story, it is at least influenced by the same dark powers.
got to point out one thing..... in SotC Dorman is never portrayed as evil. He doesnt lie to you, he doesnt commit any crime or sin. even when he posses your body AFTER the soldier kills you, Dorman says " i BORROWED the body of this warrior." all dorman wanted was to be whole again. Dorman is NOT a demon, no where is he ever referred to as as a demon or as evil
ic3cold87 the civilization that sacrificed mono and imprisoned dormin may well be the true evil. However, the imagery used leads me to believe that Dormin is evil and releasing him would be bad for humanity as a whole.
ic3cold87 horns don’t seem necessarily evil in this series. shadows in the series seem to be associated with evil- the queen, the enemies in the last guardian. Then again the boys in ico become shadows and aren’t necessarily evil unless their evil nature is all that is left behind and is represented by shadow.
I am thinking that the games are a trilogy told in reverse. Continuity wise, The Last Guardian would be the game furthest set in the past, then come Shadow of the Colossus, and Finally comes the game ICO. The possibility that the Mono might eventually become the antagonist of ICO, and that Wander is the progenitor of all of the Horned Boys is incredible.
Interesting food for thought, and I might agree with most, certainly fills in some blanks I've had about some of the details. I'm not sure as much about an overarching religion, maybe different groups among the ages that happen to come across this same entity, but I feel its more a case of history repeating itself due to lack of knowledge on their part of the past. It feels to me that, while the elder and his group in SotC know that Dormin is dangerous, they may not know fully why, just that it is, and that the fear of horned children stems from superstition after this event transpires, leading to Ico. It's a bit unclear to me whether they know of the queen's existence or if they figure the boys will simply starve there, but at least I guess they know about her sword? Some of it is still a bit difficult to put together. Not quite as crucial in terms of connecting the three but I think the themes present and how they can be interpreted are interesting. Last Guardian seemed to mostly be a sort of nature vs nurture thing, in regard to how these creatures are known to be dangerous, but it turns out it's only because they've been conditioned to bring children to the tower to get a reward, and steps like the stained glass have been put about as a means to control them. Naturally, at least the Trico we bond with over time, is not hostile towards him and possibly others, if not controlled by the Master or its satellite. That brings up another thing, talk of the tower possibly being from space, thus the valley being a large crater, which may well be true and I feel fits fine, but more importantly I feel its cold, detached atmosphere fits with the theme that these creatures have not been raised with care. SotC, on the other hand, I think is a bit more straightforward, though still a bit murky on. Not necessarily any actual evidence that Dormin is evil, or why Wander must be stopped, which actually makes me think part of it is again about religious superstition. But then, as I've gotten older, I've come to find as others have said about feeling bad about killing the colossi; how many lives is one life worth? I suppose part of my reluctance is I always thought of the colossi as extensions of Dormin rather than simple entrapments, but I guess that wouldn't make much sense considering it wants to be freed, unless they are just more instinctive in nature. Ico is the hardest for me, having not finished it myself, only having watched it once, but from what I can recall, one thing that stood out to me from the beginning was the idea of original sin, and perhaps overcoming that. It's difficult to find where Yordah or the Queen fit into this, though. I've theorized the Queen was maybe somehow Mono if she ever found how to use Dormin's power, or perhaps an descendant of hers, and rebuilt the forbidden lands into a fortress, but it's hard to think up why that would matter, really. Maybe if the idea of overcoming past wrongs is a thing, the Queen would represent not letting go of the past, whereas Yordah is new life, or rather the hope of it, unsure whether she survives herself but making sure Ico does.
From an outside point of view. I just got done playing the last guardian, and this video makes so much sense. And if you’re correct that’s a pretty amazing story
basically, ICO, Shadow of the Colossus, and The Last Guardian are on the same world, but separated by distance and time. Which means the queen in ICO is probably Mono in Shadow of the Colossus, that has been living for thousands of years, and has a piece of Dormin inside, which gives her shadow abilities. And she became evil because of the death of people she loved in the tribe she probably created with baby Wander, and has been slowly making her mad. This is the theory on sotc wiki if ur curious
Idk if it's been said, but your theory about SotC how they sucked the magic from the land to fuel the collosai would explain the lack of life in any of the regions. Geckos can crawl in from the surrounding forests and the birds can fly in, but otherwise without any life/magic to fuel the ecosystem it would be barren.
i think that the theory is good but im pretty sure i read somewhere that the last collosi you kill was used to defend from sea attacks so what is they already made the collosi or the tribe in the last guardian did to protect themselves but somehow the entity was able to manifest the collosi eventually making the inhabitants flee and calling it the forbidden land but tbh it is enough for me that they are in the same world as the guys interview you brought up says
Great Video. While I haven't played any of the games I do know a bit about the stories. The yin-yang thing makes a lot of sense. More-so when I see people point out that Dormin speaks in both male/female voice. Yin is female while Yang is male. Even though Dormin's giant form appears mostly black(yin) there is the light at the edges of the tendrils that come out of the colossi. The MotV ofc also has both present. Lastly in Ico the queen has both. Given the theorized timeline of LG-Ico-SotC then given each antagonist's appearance we can infer that all 3 are female due to the more visible appearance of the black(yin) with the Queen being human representation. You could even argue that they are the indeed the same entity with each game progressing "her" toward taking a physical form. Also as you go through each game "she" starts to lean more toward yin culminating in "her" somewhere between Ico and SotC gaining a physical body. It may even be that "it" somehow possessed and fused or got tangled with the Queen's soul. Either way because she now has a physical body she is bound by the natural laws and needs to possess a new healthy body in order to avoid death. Now whether her body of the Queen was formed or if she possessed one can only speculate as if she could stay alive in spirit form then it would seem to be the easier choice unless she grew tired of that from in which case I could see her using possession. Following the alien theory we could say that the MotV was not just an AI but and AI that had developed a consciousness. All the sacrifices might not just have fueled the technology but helped more develop it's soul. With the explosion at the end releasing it. By then it's soul was strong enough to avoid immediately dispersing and found some way to survive up until it apparently became Dormin. Actually thinking up to here then if may be plausible that it possessed the queen who somehow came into contact with the remnants of Dormin's soul. After which as stated she would have to abide by the laws and keep on possessing to survive. And she may have been forced to possess the queen because she was so wounded by the event of SotC. So I guess my theory is summed up by the antagonist is essentially the same entity in all 3? More so just wanted to elaborate on the yin-yang thing but kinda went off track. Sorry if the post was too long or wordy.
One thing I can't help notice when playing ICO and SotC is the similarities between the protagonists' ponchos: same design but different colors. Wander's is literally just black and white while Ico's is more purple and pink. Not only does this tell me the two are members of the same tribe but given the colors it tells me they're separated by numerous generations as though the tribe didn't discover how to dye fabric sometime between the two periods of time. Couple this with how Wander's outfit looks to be made up of a burlap type material and Ico's looks to be modern cloth and it gives it away. As for TLG, given how the boy doesn't have a poncho signifies that it's more likely around the time before the tribe was formed.
I had watched his video a while ago, thought it was cool but didn't check your channel out at the time. Found you again through Bloodborne and decided to check out your channel. Love your content and have since followed, but didn't even realize that I had already checked your stuff out previously! Late to the game, but so glad to join.
I reckon the boy becomes Dormin no other villager has the tribal marks, be begins to show signs of using magic, gets corrupt the tricos die off, the nest falls into ruins and becomes the forbidden lands and the colossi are inspired by all the giant creatures we see in the loading screens in TLG, but idk maybe I'd clutching straws, unless ueda says it all we'll never know
we could say that the light half is the very definition of free will. without it the physical form is overwhelmed by the absense of free will and enlightment or light, hence turning into shadow and obeying or blindly following some entity. therefore as soon as the light of free will or consciousness or life or sentience is combined with the only-physical (shadow) form, the person is revived. i don't know, i'm probably wrong but it's a cool analogy
I think listening to all of the great ideas here as well as this video I could come to like the last guardian more, since I was initially disappointed with it, because I couldn't see the links very well.
Idea: TLG came first and started the whole shadow people thing. Once the civilization found out about the light powers they became enthralled, but light cannot exist without shadow. This eventually leads to this "religion" being condemned by the time of SoTC being only being used by the most "faithful" by Ico. The shadows became a way for the under world to manifest itself, and because of the way it is obtained (by separating souls) the turquoise goo cannot exist without shadow people
I interpreted the three games as humans doing nothing more than finding themselves in the middle of things they didnt understand and using their only storytelling devices to make sense of it: gods, sacrifices, forbidden and sacred. A primal entity just doing its thing in its own land until man interferes with its purpose and in two games we see something trying to unify itself - man either giving to it (sacrifces) or preventing it (shadow of the colossus). I assumed the queen in Ico and Dormin is the same entity doing its own thing like the entity in Guardian: control and dominion.
The connection between Ico and SOTC is clear with that fact that Wander's actions in the game started the line of horned boy which eventually led to the events of Ico. The origins of the Queen and Yorda are not answered though some people think Mono becomes the Queen - I'm not a personal believer of that theory. My theory is that when the Lord Emon did his spell at the end of SOTC and dropped the sword into the pool of water, it created the crater in another location which we call the Nest where the The Last Guardian is set as shown where the same pools of water exist in both games. They could be set in the same world but in different locations - or maybe in set different universes/dimensions?? The Master of the Valley may therefore be Dormin trapped in this new ball of evil form. Maybe a group of people tried to use Dormin's power for their own benefit since it is trapped in room at the end of the game but with it's own power was able to influence the activities inside within the valley/Nest to gain control to what we see today. That is until the Boy and Trico do their thing and now Dormin may actually now be gone for good.
Japanese devs tend to LOVE digging into the meanings of foreign words and making it sound more artistic than it really is. Though this isnt exclusive to them, Im pretty sure everyone has noticed that flair that's unique to them. They like making art where you can interpret it they way they wanted you to once you got all the pieces together, no matter how small or mundane those pieces may seem. So if people are saying that these are just aesthetic preferences and its all coincidence? I'd maybe believe that, if it wasnt for the fact that this game was made by one of the most notoriously artistic Japanese devs to walk in the industry.
This theory could make sense of tye rings in the desert from shadow of the Colossus as they could be experimentation with the magic or a whay to move the magic around the forbidden lands to put in the colossi
I found a loosely connected link between Ico and the last guardian. On the genDESIGN TH-cam channel a video made in 1998 was released about a year ago and on 2:37-2:45 you can see tattoos on the early stage design of Yorda that look very similar to the boy from tlg. Additionally, they even show footage of it glowing turquoise in the same way. Not sure if you can interpret this as a canonical link between the two, but at the very least it’s impressive to think that team Ico waited almost 20 years to implement a cool character design/plot point.
2022 theory, but like they could all theoretically be apart of the same universe/world, but also not be connected between their stories. The Queen, Dormin, and Master of the Valley, could all be the all powerful gods/Deities they are, but don’t mean they connected , that universe could just be prone to magic elements as the ones seen
My theory is this, in this world, time could be different from earth, maybe millions of years could go by without the humans evolving or advancing by much, but the magic that makes up the shadow/turquoise dichotomy does change or evolve. That magic never really goes away, it just changes form. These games could take place on the same world, just long enough between for these human societies to be completely lost to history. But the magic reinvents itself, clearly struggling to coexist with humans without either desiring control over them or in SotCs case just trying to survive after being locked away.
Cool video. I have a theory that all 3 games are not really directly connected, but in the same universe, so things are loosely connected. These games are about events that happened 30k to 50k years ago to an ancient dead tribe that had an advanced civilization; each game is a key event that forever changes that civilization, and happens centuries or millenniums from the next. The reverse trilogy theory that some people described in the comments sounds about right too.
Seeing those ring photos at the end made me theorize that "shadow of the colossus" might take place after "ico." I mean, how would one horned child (from sotc) make that many horned children in the future with one woman. Maybe the horned baby at the end of sotc is the first horned child born in a long time. Those rings are from that structure. The watermelon on the beach in sotc symbolises that Ico happened in the past. It just makes so much more sense!
The old man telling the story is the same old man in shadow of the colossus. He's telling the story to wonderer right before he goes to steal the sword.
I have a theory or set of narratives about Shadow of the Colossus. First off, from watch various videos on here it's been stated that Dormin is 'Nimrod' backwards. Who's Nimrod? Well, he's a Biblical king who ruled and perhaps was thought to have built many ancient cities like Uruk and Babylon. Extrabibical Christian and Jewish traditions have Nimrod connected to the Tower of Babel, the Biblical story of rivaling the power of God. So, we have this ancient King in Dormin who also inhabits this towering structure in the Forbidden land. And what's happened to him(?) is that he's been seemingly divided up into the Colossi that dot the land. These Colossi are giant beings representing the ruins of the Forbidden Land and they characterize the ideas of mythical giants from irl very well. Their size for one, but also their connection with stone and the ancient past. This is where I'm starting see more connections. Dormin, the ancient king, being cut up apart to form Colossi... this makes me think of the reconstruct Proto-Indo European myth of Yemo, the first king and second man of history. Yemo was cut up to form the world, a sacrifice to create a home for his brother Mannus to secure him from the chaos of the rest of the cosmos. With Yemo, we see two irl mythical figures that in part formed the archetype: Ymir and Yama. With Ymir, we find the origin of Norse mythic giant race the Jotun and being divided up by the gods to form the mortal world. Like Dormin, who was divided up and created the Colossi. With Yama, we see the ancient king who's best understood to rule the underworld realm of the dead. Dormin is based in part on the ancient king Nimrod and seemingly rules over the Forbidden Land. Now that we have a connection between Dormin as an ancient king and ancient kings ruling the land of dead, is there a connection between the land of the dead and the Forbidden Land? Well, visually, the first thing we come across (and literally go across) is a long bridge in the Forbidden Land. This bridge divides the FL from the contemporary lands that Wander's people seem live. That's cogent with irl stories of the land of dead being separated from the land of the living by a bridge. Wander crosses the bridge and hopes to bring back Mono who's dead back to life. So Dormin, ancient king of the Forbidden Land where the death can be reversed, starts to be coded in a certain way. Nimrod, Ymir, Yama... in modern myth these traits best describe Satan. But, in the game, Dormin does have coding that points to Satan... and also God. He's place in the Shrine of Worship as a disembodied being enveloped in light who you look up to speak with. I would propose, that Dormin is representation of Power. Wander is seeking Power to change natural order of death, the fairly neutral coded death of Mono. Lord Emon and the warriors represent society's resistance towards Power that upsets the natural order, while that's a good or bad thing is largely interpretative. What isn't interpretative is how horrifying Power can be, but how it produces the desired results. Mono *is* resurrected. In the other Ico games, the dark/light coding in Dormin is represented in Powers of exploitation. The players represent resistance to that Power, but in Shadow of the Colossus *you* become that Power after conquering the Colossi. A Power that saves Mono and threatens Lord Emon, society, this fits pretty well with the Anti-Hero narrative of modern day. I guess I could keep going on and on and on about this, but I'll save you the terrible. - Cheers ❤️😘
You can also add in this theorie that in the remake of sotc on ps4, we can find a barrel from tlg, meaning that even if this game maybe wasn't in the same timeline at first, now it is more possible
There's a random barrel of turquoise liquid (that Trico likes so much) abandonned in a cave somewhere in Shadow of the Colossus. Does that makes it a Sequel/Prequel, no idea... but that seems to link the games as "same universe" for sure.
I had a theory about the baby and the kid in ico along with the two women. Who's to say the girl/woman who was brought back to life in colossus, isn't the same one in ico who take baby wonder and raises him and change their name's. If it's factual then maybe she (or they if he was older) tried to settle down near a village or town, while keeping him a secret only to be discovered, seeing wonder or rather now known/renamed as ico who has horns takes and imprisons him to either sacrifice or be rid of him because the others have seen kids with horns before, knowing exactly that he was reversed into an infant and her being brought back to life. So the villager's lock them both away as a way to say: "we are not blame or had taken part in the dabbling of life and death." Another theory to go along with the first weather or not it's the same two people or just a part of the games law/history; is that maybe the sad cycle continues to happen to those who keep bringing the dead back to life, it keeps happening untill the one who wishes life for the loved one, finally fails and dies himself. Resulting in why wonder is chased down, because of the sad and unnatural loop of the struggles in both games, the broke cycle of life and death, or sometimes failing. And when someone does fail, they a turned to the dark and cast as a new colossus shadow/synthetic soul/trapped soul. Doomed to watch others do what they did and having to take their lives.
I love love love your looks on games. I watched them alot over the years and now as I start delving into carl jung and aion, what do I see but your channel studying it. Synchronicity indeed. That being said the footage nomad showed on his channel of emon throwing a horn into the pool instead of the sword. Now my current theory on this original intention of the developers is extremely close to your theory. I add simply that tricos species continuation was the big twist ending of guardian. I think that alone is of importance to note, then with emon using a horn to literally seal dormin once he possesses wander. Its logical to believe tricos were used to seal dormin into the land of the valley creating the colossi. By use of their horns which have been seen as turqoise blue indicating light energy as you say. This makes so much sense as the tribe of emon may have committed genocide on the tricos as immense energy was needed to seal dormin so intricately and near fool proof. If humans can be used to harvest light shouldn't the tricos as well? So anyways just wanted to further add my take on your theory. Yours is so thought out and well put defining the theme of balance. Even if dormin is or isnt the master it could be the same dark and light energy. The same as how particles are transferred over time. How humans buried in soil will rejoin and be used again to create life. Mono was brought back by dormins shadow magic. Its logical to believe her lineage is that of the queen if not herself. The masters defeat could have given rise to dormin with enough time. The gods seem as entwined and bound by the laws of the universe in their own way. Constantly being reborn with its light counterpart in an endless waltz of light vs dark. A dream of ueda showing us balance in the flesh.
Wanted to add on the way to the 6th colossus in the forest area there is a small hidden cave with a gold coin and a barrel easter egg like the ones from last guardian. This solidifies that the forbidden lands was once the valley imho. This cave could've served as refuge for trico species as a barrel of their fav food source is there. Just makes one wonder what emons tribe mustve done to them. Why else are they seemingly extinct in sotc yet barrels of goo can be found in the forbidden lands. Curious indeed.
![ทางเดินชีวิต - ธีเดช ทองอภิชาติ x อ.ไข่ มาลีฮวนน่า [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1f3wcG16dd4/mqdefault.jpg)
I always thought the environment architecture was a dead giveaway.
Very true!
a giveaway, or a strong hint that there is a connection between the games
And the way everyone dresses.
It almost definitely is a shared universe, but you could make the argument it's simply reused assets, or just a style and aesthetic design the studio likes.
@@davidstephens3235 ico and sotc and def related. Although yes the assets are reused
Honestly all three of these games defy conventional genres. They really are something else
Ben Wasserman only if there were more games like them are these games recognized even more than just games for most of the people living in the world
I only layed Shadow but boy, was that a master piece. I loved all of it.
FOR DEUTSCHLAND there's a indie dev making a shadow of the colossus clone called "prey of the gods"
Zelda
Trev And that my friend, it’s a game with true depth, and the power of the muti-dimensional art ☕️
Its hard to call Dormin an antagonist or villain without evidence. Evil power sure but not necessarily evil intent. Wander seeked him out, Dormin not only kept his word in the deal but warned Wander of a heavy price, its not like he way trying to scheme him into manipulation, he was being upfront and Wander complied because for him anything was worth it. All we have of the danger of Dormin is stories, of which Wander himself did not fully believe. In the end we only see him lashing out on the ones who banished him for revenge, he didn't speak of any evil plans. The characters that banished him show high signs of ignorance and fear, perhaps why they banished him to begin with and why Wander went against them in this mission, since his girl was also sacrificed. If anything its Wander's people who seem like the real troublemakers more than anyone.
SmoothLegend I feel that if dormin just said something like
Hey dude, sure bud just kill these people for me, wander would have suspected something
He could be a misunderstood but fair god.Battles between religions arent uncommon. And the victor wrires history.
Good point, to add to that you see the villagers in the last guardian who have a great fear of the Trico species. However throughout the game you begin to see the dichotomy between those Trico that are controlled and the companion, who is not. The villagers seem to be in a perpetual state of fear for those things they do not understand.
Additionally The Master Of The Valley would seem similar to Dormin in that he tasks the Trico species to retrieve children, he requires physical exertion and a sacrifice of them, plus a level of manipulation is involved. In turn he provides them with their sustenance, same type of tradeoff that Dormin exhibits.
To be honest with you, if I had a loved one slain in some ritualistic or religious ritual such as the events here, I wouldn’t hesitate to find ways, if I’m in that world, to bring the person back. In my eyes, Emon, the head shaman in SOTC, had caused this and Wander is trying to bring back a loved one. So gg.
but...... Dormin is a giant freaking demon. demons tend to be pretty evil in my experience
It felt to me as if the Last Guardian was set waaay before the other two.
I completely agree. What looks like the "ICO" castle can be seen in both "The Last Guardian" & "Shadow Of The Colossus". If this is correct, then time wise, both of those games take place prior to the castle in "ICO" falling apart & sinking under the water
@@timmadone8930 and we know for a fact that Shadow of the Colossus is a prequel to ICO, which places The Last Guardian before or adjacent to Shadow on the timeline.
@@ashb712 It's a bit hard to decide, though; going by the idea that Ico is from a LONG lineage of horned children started by Wander, that would mean dozens of generations separate the two games' events despite there being little to no progression in technology (human characters in SotC more or less have the same technology as the characters in ICO and TLG).
With that in mind, though, *I think it's safest to assume The Last Guardian does take place before Shadow of the Colossus, although not by a lot of years* like Charles Boyce said; one of the barrels containing light and/or life essence fed to the Tricos can be found in a cave just before fighting Barba (the 6th colossi), indicating that the Master of the Valley's practices were occuring before Wander set foot in the Forbidden Land. The fact that one of the Master's barrels even exists there might even mean that *the Master of the Valley and Dormin colluded with one another,* considering I doubt a high-and-mighty god like Dormin would tolerate another powerful entity capturing his worshippers for sacrifice without his say-so. *HOWEVER,* given that the barrel of life essence found in SotC is still in somewhat good condition (and not, you know, rotted and worn down) means that it hasn't been in the Forbidden Land for more than a few years before Wander began his quest to revive Mono there.
So, here's the most likely timeline of games: *The Last Guardian* --> several years after the Master's defeat by the boy and stopping the production of light-containing barrels --> *Shadow of the Colossus* --> likely a dozen generations of horned boys sired by Wander --> *ICO.*
The issue being is the technology in The Last Guardian, which seems to be more complex than what we saw in SOTC, which was limited to the glowing horns of some colossi and the beam sword. I would think The Last Guardian is set as a separate story between SOTC and Ico, but I don’t have much evidence to really prove that. That’s my view.
@@WinstonHofler tlg it's way after ico
Another common thread I've noticed is how each game begins with the protagonist desperately trying to reverse their curse fate- or in the case of SOTC, the curse fate of the one they love. Whether they know it or not, their transgressions always seem to begin and end with an act of sacrifice. It's the fear of isolation, the need for companionship, and the willingness to sacrifice that ties all of these games together thematically. For me, there is no overarching story or grand narrative that connects these games together. Rather, its about understanding the themes presented in each story and recognizing the beauty in their simplicity. Underneath the veneer of these fantastical and mysterious worlds, are human stories told by the most unconventional story tellers of their medium.
That's a really beautiful way of looking at it and a perfect example of the sort of "equally legitimate interpretation" that I referred to in the video.
Why is an MRA making game theory videos.
Well, it's interesting you say that because I'm not an MRA. :/ If anything, I'm more of a women's rights advocate.
Just messing around man because I actually love your other work just mra cause of honey badger radio
Shadow of the Colossus 9.9/10, I.C.O 9.5/10 , The Last Guardian 7/10 (made just for money draining)
The theory I came up with places the Last Guardian before Shadow of the Colossus.
The civilization discovered how to pull the light energy out of people, which is what ran the magical things in their kingdom, but the dark energy they couldn't control, so they tried to contain it. However, that dark energy became conscious, and seized control over their technology, and started using the Trico to gather more and more sacrifices to build its power. The Master of the Valley is this dark entity, and the structure we see it contained in is where it was originally contained.
Under the threat of extinction via sacrifice, the people were forced to evacuate their lands, moving further and further away to try to escape the Tricos. But speaking of the Trico, they seem to be naturally peaceful, but they're under the influence of the Master of the Valley, and I believe the armor serves the purpose of helping to extend the duration of that influence. The strange cage-like rooms which emit the pulses that make Trico eat you are the means by which the Trico are commanded, but the armor somehow focuses that energy, extending its effect. That is why at the beginning of the Last Guardian when the weary Trico is struck by lightning, and then crashes to the ground, breaking its armor from its body, it shakes off the control of the Master of the Valley, and why when it is given the new commands in the cage-rooms, why it retreats to a safe location to regurgitate the boy instead of taking him all the way to the top of the tower.
So at the end of the Last Guardian, I think the Master of the Valley's containment and essence extractor are destroyed, prompting it to re-locate to the Temple we will later encounter in Shadows of the Colossus. There this shadow entity founds a cult, depicting itself as a god, "proving" its claims by showing power over life and death by manipulating the light and dark energies. But then these people eventually encounter the survivors of the civilization responsible for the creation of this shadow entity, and in light of the threat posed, the cult is dispanded, and the survivors of the original civilization use their light-based magic items (including shields and swords) contain the shadow creature, now referring to itself ad "Dormin". Dormin's essence is split and bound to the land, creating the Colossai.
The region containing these Colossai is vacated, and access to it is made forbidden. But the survivors of the original civilization continue to power their light-based magic through sacrifices. After one such sacrifice, Wanderer steals the sword and the recently sacrificed girl and bring them to Dormin in the hopes of having her resurrected. After the events of the game, Wanderer grows up and has a family, some of which are born with horns, reminiscent of those he recieved after his extensive contact with Dormin.
By this point the people had stopped sacrificing people to power their technologies, having noticed just in time that they were on the verge of creating another Dormin-like entity. However, they feared the threat of Dormin's return, which they saw in the descendants of Wanderer, and as such they took these children to an ancient fortress where they would be contained in sarcophagi, utilizing the last of the light-magic they'd had stored. But unknown to them, the queen who ruled over the castle had made a deal with Dormin, and instead of containing the essences of the children, she used the ancient technologies to harvest them, bringing Dormin closer to fully re-emerging in the material world. Then the events of Ico happen.
wow dude, I like this theory a lot, I'm gonna show it to my friends 👍
Awesome theory
Bill 1138 Excellent theory!
Bill 1138 I think the reason the master gives away the light goop is so it has less of a chance to take over it
the only thing i disagree with you is " But the survivors of the original civilization continue to power their light-based magic through sacrifices." I don't think that's true. What i think happened is, the shaman foresaw the coming back of Dormin and that the girl was the cause of it, they sacrificed her to prevent it from happening but wander couldn't bear such atrocity so he went there to revive her causing the vision that the shaman had to become truth. The rest is on point and i agree 100% with your theory.
The way I took it was that they're each different eras of the same civilization and the god of that world just went by different names throughout the ages. Making the Master of the Valley, Dormin, and The Queen different iterations of the same being. The similar architecture would insinuate that it's all from the same civilization.
a bit like Ganon?
@@jam.lob. Ganon isn’t a deity tho, just someone with envy who gained power.
Man, I am completely convinced that SotC is a prequel to ICO by x years, but I am sitting awake wondering how in the Hell TLG fits into the universe. Don't get me wrong, I think that it is IN the universe, but when? Does the Boy have any significance? What are the Master of the Valley and the Tricos?
Also, somebody needs to start a ICO PS4 remaster petition.
Reid Parker I think the master of the valley is the central brain of a machine created by thee witch from ICO
shizuwolf
Really? Why?
Reid Parker well, the part about it being made by the witch, I don’t have much to go on because I never played ICO. But I do think it’s just a machine. When you encounter it, it doesn’t try to talk to you or anything. It really only attacks when you try to stop it from doing what it was doing. It doesn’t come across as sentient, but more like an program with a single purpose.
shizuwolf
Yeah, I agree. My perspective has changed since I wrote my original comment: the Valley is a crash site for a alien ship (the weird white tower) around which a civilization was built. People were being harvested for their intristic white and dark energies; which caused the civilization to fall apart. The Master of the Valley is an AI to continue the process, and the dark energy is stored in the sarcophagus where the shield is. After you destroy the Master of the Valley, the dark energy gains sentience as "Dormin" and heads off far away to spend the next few hundred years making a name for itself. Then, SotC happens.
Reid Parker sounds like something from the history channel 😄
I read somewhere a theory I found interesting about how The Last Guardian hints the origins of the cult of Dormin. Once the White Tower/Nest collapsed and so did the machinery that kept the place operational, the Tricos not being controlled anymore had no choice but to regurgitate their most recently captures -aka the children w/ marks on their bodies instead of offering them to the Nest. These people could had gathered and formed their own society, then started their own religion based on the worship of a collective entity formed by the first settlers of this new town (the marked people). Remember that Dormin referred to himself as 'we' in SOTC and had both masculine and feminine voice. It's not an obvious reference as the baby with horns at the end of SOTC, but it sounds like a reasonable and an interesting possibility to me.
I dont think they are being used as fuel as much as a trade. Being pushed through.. the between.. and so it doesnt require people to be simply killed, just have their souls apply pressure like a key. That process can easily have a ton of consequences and give those marked people insentive based on powers they learn of and how it had effected their minds.
The question is why do they fail to blend it into a more wide spread population. It seems like only specific points in the world allow these things to happen.
I've assumed that the Master of the Valley uses the children as fuel, and what it gives out in the barrels is a waste product of sorts. Like, the Master used everything in the children it could use, and packed the stuff it couldn't into the barrels. So that stuff, although tinged blue by the processes of the Master, is far more nutritious than a normal human, because of concentration and stuff.
I'd go into it further, but I'm currently planning my own video.
Did you make the video?
No
Rest in piece video
My theory for what is happening is as follows:
Shadow Of The Colossus is a prequel like Ueda said, due to Wander becoming the first horned boy at the end, and I would like you to take note of the fact that in Shadow Of The Colossus, there's a beach that looks extremely similar to Ico's Beach during the watermelon ending. As I was saying, Wander becomes the first horned boy, and Mono, who was reincarnated using Dormin's dark magic, needs to harvest the dark energy of the cursed horned children in order to sustain her existence as a dark reanimation. That's right, she sacrifices Wander, but his curse persists, infecting child after child. The people of the Village, fearing the return of Dormin, make a deal with Mono, now the Queen. She would take the horned boys and keep the village safe, unbeknownst to the Village people, she was harvesting these boys to sustain herself, until Ico arrived. Ico struggled against his doomed fate and escaped the Queen clutches, obtaining the Queen's Sword, most likely a reforging of the Ancient Sword or a different sword entirely, and slays the Queen, escaping the tower as it collapses and Yorda inherits the Queen's power. Alternatively, in the Watermelon ending, the beach that Ico and Yorda appear on is in none other than The Forbidden Lands themselves. And it all ended where it started, or so it would seem. Truthfully, I don't know when the events of the Last Guardian happen, but I do know this, the village that the protagonist is from is different from the Village in Ico and SOTC, and I know that due to the lack of the cloaks that Ico, Wander, and The Shaman wore. Also, something noteworthy, the protagonist of TLG ends up in a valley controlled by a dark being. Now look at Colossus, Wander enters the Forbidden Lands and the only way in is a bridge. It's a sheer drop. It's a *valley* . I think The Last Guardian tells an eerily familiar yet different tale, about a cursed boy who awakens in a strange place and attempts to escape with a new companion. Both the Valley and The Forbidden Lands are ruled by dark creatures who were sealed away be humans. Dormin, when he was split into 16 pieces, and the Master, who was trapped in an ancient temple with the mirror to defeat him if need be. I think these stories are about dark magical beings who rule over parts of the world (be it valleys, castles, etc) who are defeated by humanity but still dwell in the shadows, Shadow Of Colossus showed us what happens to humans who make deals with devils and risk everything to bring back people they love. Ico showed us the aftermath of the deal with aforementioned devil, and how a desire to bring someone back can twist them. And The Last Guardian showed us that Dormin wasn't the only dark being that was sealed away in a forgotten land.....
I love these games with all my heart, and though I may not have played all of them, I still care deeply about them. Truthfully, though, I don't think we'll see another game from Team Ico, as much as I'd love that final puzzle piece to piece it all together, I think I just have to be happy with what I have. These games are very personal for me, and very nostalgic, and I just want to say that they are some of the best things I have ever seen. If you disagree with my theory, let me know what you see wrong so I can fix it. Thank you for reading until this point, and Thank you Team Ico for making these wonderful, beautiful games.......
This is the most likely and thought through explanation I've heard. I just see one flaw. The Trico's weren't created after the humans fled the valley. There are statues of them throughout the city, showing they were there with the humans. I think their original purpose was to help with construction.
I know I'm quite late to the party now, but I appreciate this thoughtful video about the connection between these games.
My only contribution is that I have a different interpretation of the villagers. I can't recall Ico exactly because it's been a while, but I feel like the villagers in each game haven't rebelled against the powers of the valley/nest/etc., but more that they are complicit in the system those powers have imposed on them, making sacrifices in an attempt to appease that power. Each game seems like a story about young people rebelling against the entire system that has failed them. The story of TLG does contradict this a little, as the villagers don't play a direct role in the sacrifice. I think I see this as perhaps reflecting a parallel change of heart in the creators, who might be able to better empathize with the elders of a powerless community as they have themselves aged and had more life experience.
9:28 the soldier that's carrying the boy looks like valus!!!!!!
One thing is for sure, we are blessed by this amazing storytelling
It's a reverse trilogy. After the events of the last guardian the sword was created, it was kept a place where nobody could find it. Wanderer finds it and steals it in the Demise of his loved one and heads to the land of the last guardian. After the events of SOTC, if you remember when Dormin talked. It was not only a mans voice but a woman and Dormin considered itself as we not I. The male version comes back as wanderer and dies, but what was half is now one is mono when she wakes up at the end...she goes on to become the queen in ICO hence the mortal part of the story is love. For some reason children are rarely born with horns due to this Adam and Eve story. A descendent of her creation of children (ICO) rebels against his known destiny and falls in love with the queens daughter...rescuing her she sacrifices herself for his well being survival. The end of the story.
The room where the mirror is found is the same place where mono was resting until she awoke, and that room is also the same room where the children were sacrificed in ICO, the land is the same just each chapter takes place years after the next. Why it was cold where the mirror is found, why it is open and jungle like where mono rests and where it is inclosed and only able to get thru by water in ICO.
This whole story was written a long time ago just spread out.
So the sword was forced from the mirror? That's why it shines light?
So essentially, could this all be a time loop or a multiverse?
Robbie-Paul Baines no it’s in the same universe and time line the last guardian is the first part of the story SOTC is the second part and ICO is the third,when dormin took Control of wonder and turned into a colossus and died wonder was reborn as a baby with horns and the baby grows and lived on as Ico which is why he also has horns and is wearing the same type of tunic that wonder wears
Out of all of the games. Sotc has this Special feel to it
My theory is that Dormin once used the master of the valley to control the humans which lead to the civilization seen in the nest. Dormin also created the Tricos to serve as attack/guard dogs over the humans and the animated armour to control the Tricos. A group of humans rebelled against Dormin and fled the nest and established civilization elsewhere such as the one in TLG and from this village the shaman who shattered Dormin. The sixteen pieces were scattered to the forbidden land in the South. The Tricos continued to do their master's bidding for the next X amount of years and during this time the ancient sword was passed down to the shaman from SOTC. The events of TLG occur during this time. Shadow's shaman later sacrifices Mono and his student Wander (who would have been taught of spiritual matters by his teacher) sets off to bring her back. Cue SOTC's events. After Wander is reduced to an infant Mono takes care of him and discovers a nearby castle. Later becoming the evil Queen and Wander the first of the shadow children. The descendants of TLG's boy become the horned children due to their ancestors contact with Dormin's creations. Cue Ico. That's just my theory and how I've pieced it together.
Neet
I really liked your interpretation. Very interesting indeed. I fucking love these games, I pray for an Ico Remaster so I can play the holy trinity on my PS4.
Or ps5
I feel like the more notiacable one is about the ying-yang of darkness and light, it somehow seems to make the most sense when linked with the colour turquoise. There's something about this colour, it could be the colour to show that this is a magical property of goodness, light, or power. As mentioned, the colossi are made of the same entity, the same power, and through the cracks in their skin, turquoise shows. Their eyes also glow turquoise at times (mostly), and so do virtually all of the shadow creatures/living beings. (e.g. Demon Wander, Dormin, The Knights, Trico from time to time, The Shadow Children). But I think there's something more to this. The Master of The Valley, in fact, glows turquoise, and bears symbols, like the little boy. So do the symbols when you're captured by the Knights, and when the rest of Trico's race put the children into some sort of food dispenser. It seems to be some sort of ancient or forbidden magic. The Master of The Valley's symbols not only are very similar or the same to the boy's, this could possibly mean that, when the boys are put into the food dispenser and the barrel shoots out, the barrel is full of the turquoise (which could be their life essence). But the question is- the horned children are put into the sarcophagus and the life energy is sucked out of them to keep the queen alive, then the children are turned into the Shadow Children. It could be the same with the guards and the Master of The Valley. The children could have the life energy sucked out of them, then turned into Shadow Creatures. The energy could be sucked in by the Master of The Valley, to keep it the most powerful being there, so it is not overridden. Then, the darkness which is left over, could most likely be suited and controlled by the Master of The Valley.
Just a theory.
the connection I see is that wander reborn with horns is the first of the horned children, therefore ico is decedent of wander, along with the other sacrifices in that game, and the last guardian is you playing as a young Lord Emon who was the shaman that sealed away wander in shadow of the colossus. Along with all shadow, light, and cultural connections. Good video.
TACTICAL_SAX it's not lord emon he doesn't have tattoos
@@AlanNoMoney and also they show the boy from the last guardian as an adult at the end of the game, he's definetely not lord emon..
I've always thought these games took place in the same world, just set a millennia apart for each one.
My theory (spoiler alert)
I believe that the games order goes last guardian, shadow of the colossus, ico
Once upon a time there was a civilisation of people. They had a ruler who passed but in an effort to bring their leader back they placed him/her in the sarcophagus where you get the mirror and created the master of the valley (who I believe is dormin). They captured children and placed them into the bird statue at the top of the tower, giving dormin the shadow portion, thus increasing his power, and ejecting the light portion as the glowing liquid in the barrels. One day dormin decided to take control of the tricos to automate the process, thus killing all of the citizens of the valley. Then The events of the last guardian happened, and when dormin explodes his essence is sent to the forbidden lands and the valley is destroyed. The forbidden lands contained a large supply of light energy and fused with dormins dark energy forming the colossi. Lord eamon found out about the incident and banned access to the area. Then the events of shadow of the colossus happened. Wander(is that how you spell it?) becomes a horned child carrying the essence of dormin. When mono and baby wander return to their village the essence spreads, creating the horned children . The rest is basically what he said in the video about ico. Then the events of ico happen. And so far the end.
Tell me what you think (I'm open to complements and criticism)
How could Mono and Wander return to their village when the bridge, the only way to the forbidden lands and out, gets destroyed at the end of the game?
All 3 could easily be turned into motion pictures
2018 and this is still confusing...but I will accept the order of the games as last guardian, SotC, and Ico, makes some sense
Supreme leader Oliver wait doesnt emon and his clan or wutever kill dormin and place his essence in the collosi
Nice theory
I feel like the mirror Is like the shield to the two swords used in previous games
Kyra Porreca It could be that Wander and Ico are the same person, given that when Wander's age regresses he keeps his horns as a child, and Ico is younger than Wander (I think). Plus Shadow of the Colossus is a prequel. And, the two different swords could actually be the same sword, which is somehow linked to Wander/Ico
@@adambell5781 a fun idea but not really true when you remember wander is the first horned child, the beginning of the curse, and in Ico the curse has gone on for so long the queen has a hundred horned boys souls already and sacrificing them has become a generational tradition. so they're rather far from each other time wise.
I know this is old but, thank you man. Im a lifelong shadow of the colossus lover, it was my very first game back when i got a ps2 and got every remake since. Each time i platinumed it i tried to figure out some lore beyond whats there and came up short, im so satisfied with this theory.
Okay, I'm a bit late, but I found two things. Firstly, there is both a TLG Easter egg and an ICO Easter egg in SOTC. Secondly, when finding the 7th Collosus in SOTC you come across the temple. Outside the temple you see butterflies that are the EXACT same as the ones in TLG. hope u see this comment :)
It's pronounced ee-co. Say it with me!
I know. Somebody pointed out evidence to me the other day. xD
Who cares?
+@@SuperMandibleclaw Clearly, Daniel does. As well as a lot of other people, including myself
Ayikou
Daniel is correct. In Japanese it’s ee-ko. The I is pronounced as a hard E.
I have always thought that when Mono was resurrected, she came back with the female half of Dormin inside of her which later led to her becoming the queen from ico thus realizing her cursed fate.
Max, this is brilliant! I just barely wiped my tears after completing The Last Guardian and this video looked at the Team Ico trilogy in a very interresting way I would never think of on my own. It's nice to reflect on these beautiful worlds and their stories after you complete the games, I almost consider it as additional content (same with VaatiVidya and Fromsoft games, for example). Myabe I'm wrong, but I noticed you have a tinge of irritance in your voice when you mention comments and people having their own interpretations. Are there that many people willing to "correct" you on your particular version, albeit it's just speculation? Anyway, thank you very much!
Thanks for this video, Its helping me a lot and I really appreciate the time you put into making it.
I just realized that TRICO is an abbrevation of the words Three, as in the third game of the series and ICO as in the developer... whoa
Barbora Holubcová Shadow of the Colossus went under the codename nico, ni (二) meaning two in japanese, and it's the second game in the trilogy
Nameless Soul nico nico nii
@@annasthesia8432 lol
Yup! It's also a bit of a mix of animal words in Japanese.
When the game was first announced at e3 (when it was meant to be released on PS3, before the years of delays and possible cancellation) the game was codenamed as ‘Project Trico’. We all assumed back then it was just Tri (three) Ico. Kinda cool
The opening narration of Shadow of the Colossus also references the forbidden land as a place where there is a being that controls creatures made from light. I believe this being to be Dormin considering there is no other being in the valley. Also Dormin first appears to the player as a beam of light coming in through the temple and only appears as a shadow when he is fully formed. This adds a massive amount of credence to your theory.
Max, just wow, this explanation was wonferfull. I played these three games countless times, focusing on every little detail, up until the middle, it wasnt something new, but after this point, you mind blowed me. Just like usual max, thanks for the all the hard work and great videos.
It would seem that all of the structures were abandoned, not built by whatever evil power inhabits it at that point in time, one indicator is their general state of decay, the second indicator is that both massive cities/castles in ICO and TLG were under construction when abandoned, in both games you see huge sets of scaffolding and cranes used to lift materials or whatever else they needed, all of which seems as if it was hastily abandoned, and all of which is in the same state of decay as the rest of the completed structures. One has to wonder if it was the power (Dormin, The Queen, and The Master of the Valley) which drove the previous inhabitants out of the structures in ICO and TLG.
The Temple in SOTC was either not abandoned but constructed to contain Dormin, or was abandoned and was later used as a pre existing structure to house what small part was left of Dormin that wasn't placed into the colossi. It is most likely that Dormin was not split up by Lord Eamon himself, due to the average lifespan of a human, (which may differ in this universe), and the evident age in all the structures in the forbidden lands. That age and the obvious wear and tear speak of hundreds of years, therefore it is my belief that the ancestors of Lord Eamon were the first to imprison Dormin, then that lore and responsibility of the sword was passed down from generation to generation to ensure that no one trespassed on the forbidden lands.
Additionally it is pretty clear that the colossi imprisonment was intentional and manmade, not some random dispersion of Dormin. That intention is made most clear in the final colossus, but is also evident in the 3rd, which is imprisoned on a giant platform suspended in the sky and surrounded by water, making it relatively impossible for him to leave. The final colossus was obviously designed to have the ranged power that he has, as evidenced by the network of barricades and tunnels that give access to him, during his construction the builders knew they would need a way of accessing the giant to either finish construction, or as a way to leave once he was brought to life. His power and intelligence were designed to be above that of all the rest, and to ensure those attributes did not allow him to overcome walls or gates, they settled on the simple solution of encasing him in a gigantic skirt that was heavy enough that he couldn't move around or escape, as well as encasing his feet in giant metal shoes and affixing them to the ground.
In short it would seem as if most of the storyline, structures, antagonists, and characters are the result of some ancient civilization of humans. In some way they manipulated some power, and something turned against them causing widespread death and evacuation, those who escaped fled and started over, as a result the technology, history, and workings of that society were lost, and only small bits and pieces remain, one of those being the lore and sword surrounding Dormin and the forbidden lands. We'll really have to wait and see what Fumito Udea has in mind.
The thing with SOTC is that there was the original religion of Dormin, but other followers began to worship another religion, which angered Dormin, that huge shadow being. He became aggressive then the people sealed him away with the sword he into sixteen different parts, which the Colossi were created to hold each part. After Wander killed all of the Colossi, he released the Dormin into one, which brought him back. I don’t think anyone was sacrificed to make the different shadow people of Dormin.
I think it's more that these games are linked by motif's and themes rather than strict continuity. But, that's whats great about these three games is that it is open enough for fun speculations like these. Maybe that's all the connection they need.
The 12th colossus no longer has a turquoise glow on it's horns in the PS4 remake. To make up for that, the Queens Sword in the PS4 remake now has a turquoise glow where as in the PS2 & PS3 versions it doesn't. Just something I was thinking about while watching this video again. The fact that we are given so little info about these games & the worlds they inhabit, is a big part of why they are still being discussed & analyzed all these years later.
What if the Trico species are Colossi? Just not with all that Dormin juice. What if there ARE species, and multiple ones, we just don't see the others. Just the one that sealed Dormin off by acting as walking cages. I don't know, I ain't no theorist.
Jedi MB I don't think so. The colossi always appeared to be armored creatures with the same fur; and remember they weren't really animaks at all...just Dormin's fragments.
Yeaaaah true,
The Colossi are made out of the earth and serve one purpose. To guard Dormins soul. They keep each part of Dormins soul trapped with in their own prison to protect the forbidden lands. Trico is a different.
So when Shaman tosses the sword into the water in the shrine of worship, I believe it creates a spell that tries to eliminate the dark essense of the religion you spoke of, and since dormin inhabited wander, he is sucked into the water. I think this is why wander gets smaller until he is his original size. I think it's mostly sucking in dormin, but I think it's also trying to suck in wander too, since he committed crimes within the Forbidden lands, so that's why he falls in as well. I think wander is turned into a baby since there is still some good in him, and he was just reduced to his most innocent form. But, he also has horns which confused me at first. When I thought about it, I came to the idea that the horns represent a good side of dormin. I believe there was still good in him since he decided to ressurect mono, which he could have easily ignored since he was just using wander to ressurect himself anyway. So the baby represents the innocence of dormin and wander, but is primarily wander. I really like the way you interpreted it as well, and nice video.
I always thought that the story start with The Last Guardian, and then Colossus and then Ico. I like it more that way haha
I can see that. Especially if each game takes place thousands of years apart.
My head cannon is as follows :
Shadow of the colossus->Ico->The Last Guardian
The girl that Wander revives grows to become the queen from Ico (Hence why they wanted to kill her in the first place, but oops...is that a self-fulfilling prophecy I see?), and Ico/ the horned children are descendants of reincarnated horny Wander.
And that somehow leads to The Last Guardian. I never said it was perfect, but I'm working on it.
Love your videos dude! The care & hard work put in them shows!
Horny wander... Lol. Good point lore wise.
the queen in ico is probably mono in sotc who got mad with the death of wander
no they had babies together
@@snoopcat9351 what? Wander was a baby and with 18 she would be 40 or so
Is it Weird that i LOVE the Mysterious worlds that Team Ico makes and enjoy Theorizing about them and the Timeline But have never ONCE played ANY of their Games?
SoTC is free now on psplus.. this is your chance to play this beautiful classic !!
@@eternalawait365 i actually bought Shadow Of The Colossus Remake and The Last Guardian on the PS4 last month cause they were on sale. But ive been so busy with my job and my channel that i havnt gotten around to playing them yet. Hopefully things will ease up soon so i can Finaly play them. Maybe ill even play them on my channel.
Whats funny is after all the trouble Wander did to bring Dormin back Lord Emon pretty easily sealed him back away. Like for someone whose that major of a threat he got deal with pretty easily.
I really agree with this theory, that really fit nicely with mine :
The final tower of the last guardian is clearly some sort of parasite/ IA / selfaware entity that has only one goal : use whatever means to survivre and prosper.
Being trapped in this huge tower, it corrupted the lands around it. the pieces of armor you fight are clearly, has you said : shadows inside them. bieng bound to the junk remnants of old armors with the evil magic / energy taken from the souls of the kids. clearly the other part of the ruins in the game are not from the same time period as the biggest tower, set in the centre of thie big hole, almost like a crashed UFO. then the ruins around it are recycled into some sort of evil factory to enslaved "Tricos" to bring more juice, to create more evil armors etc etc. The real free tricos do not have horns, it seems not. horns grow the same way they did in Shadow of... : by the ingestion by the "bad" energy. the barrels are souls of dead kids, and in SOTC killing those colosses. the complex machinery / helmet / traps being used to control Tricos seem a bit out of space and time in this Universe. builds by the evil armor and not original parts of the ruins around it. We are coming back to my UFO/ ancien aliens theory here because technology from the evil entity is clearly more advanced that the villages of the protagonist. nothing found in this world can build the reactor we go through in the game. the mirror we use is a very strange artifact that might be also an advanced pieces of technology from this IA race. it seems to be unique in the game and only have use as a key in the last tower and not the other ruins. Tricos might be some mutated animals engeneered by the AI to be perfect / easy to use slaves. their changing colors eyes seems also robotic, compared to their normal black color. the fact that they react strongly in a strange way to simple things such as a smell or a mirror in the shape of an eye does not seems natural to me. in the end when they all died / fall as soon as the IA is off seems to show that they are not made to be able to survive is left alone. Trico that manage to overide the power of this IA near the end of the game, this is why he survived. How did he do it ? I don't think this is because of all the barrels we feed him, but probably the boy's love.
I really like your theory and I agree with a lot of it. I also found myself trying to explain why the white tower is so clearly out of place with the rest of the ruins, and I absolutely agree that the Tricos' horns seem to be a product of the turquoise goo.
The one problem I have, however, is that the ruins have Trico statues in them. To me, it seemed like the Tricos must have been worshipped by whatever society existed there previously. It makes me wonder what their relationship with the people was, and how it developed into them being weaponized to use to gather fuel. I don't think the ruins were abandoned when the MotV "appeared".
The backstory of this game is so fascinating. I'm so ready for a prequel! So many mysteries!
Yohann Junique You like robots and ai and technology and all that crap because thats your thing but if you see the game more closely those tricos died because they were controlled by an evil spirit/demon not an IA lmao
@@latioswarr3785 Very late reply, but I read that the story was about nature vs computers/AI. So, I guess they did mean something about beings slaves to the electronics, even we when we play it. Kinda interesting, but could have been made a bit clearer, for even even this story is not the clearest in the game, but it defintly makes sense. Slaves to the IA, we are like the Trico's, acting as our "master" likes us to do..
I just finished playing The Last Guardian for the first time today. July, 2024. It got me thinking about the possible connections. I am inclined to agree with the remarks made in your theory. Thanks for this video.
I would also mention a common thematic thing in all three games is having a companion. In Ico it's Yorda, in SotC it's Agro and in the Last Guardian it's the monster. It's always an important component that the protagonist isn't alone on his adventure.
mono's cursed fate is to become the queen(ico) as she was ritually euthanized by lord emon.
dormin(nico) is sleeping and ancient deity of the land and was returned to sleep by the ancient sword.
the master of the valley(trico) is the remaining power of the queen after her death, as dormin is bound to sleep by the holy sword there should be no dormin's fragment that can influence the forbidden lands.
I think last guardian happens before SotC and SotC happens before ico with last guardians city sort of Being the founding/birth place of this sacrificial religion or way of life and dormin and the queen are offshoots basically trying to do the same thing in different places, attempted in different ways, and are destroyed in different ways. I also think that the reborn wander is the first of the boys with horns that would later be taken by the queen. I think they work very well as a trilogy except chronologically they are backwards
I also think trico and the colossi where probably created in very similar ways whether it be from stone as u said in a previous video or off shoots off forming/the almighty being at the end of last guardian
Has anyone ever considered that maybe wander becomes an unknown entity himself after his rebirth? And maybe he reincarnated in Ico to stop dormin again? Maybe that’s him “Atoning for his sin” as the shaman said
I love these games so much, and of how they're connected. Still hope there would be a fourth game by Team Ico for the PS5.
Let us pray
The kid from the last guardian is the old shaman from Sotc, it would make sense, a video essay by Nook and Cranny brings it up as a theory.
Now that’s sounds cool
Thank you so much for your fantastic videos! This is the best analysis of the ICO universe I've seen, keep up the good work!
Moral of the stories:
People are primitive,
a person is advancing.
I would like to add to your theory! The Master of the Valley is a sentient A.I./ superior being of pure energy that crash landed on this world after already exhausting all the life energy in whatever world it originated in. It clearly looks geometrical and “technological” like a hive mind of swarming nanobots or something.
wow I'm so glad you brought this up. I like to explore more into your theory by adding the people. besides the dark entities in all three games the ruin's ask a question. The people who made them. Yodas and the Queen may be the last of their kind. like elves they both have innate powers which happens to be dark or blue light. the humans living outside the Valley, Castle, or nest are more but stock for the beings the live there once. good question what happen to them. looks like they had power but now everything is lay in ruin and decay. what may happen?
Loved it!!! 😍 I do think they are some how interlinked and I liked your analysis of the elements! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Ineresting theories. SOTC is a game that changed my life, I now have a folk-ambient band dedicated to its universe
This seems cool, is there any material yet?
Yeah, it would be cool to hear some
It's called Dorminn. You can find it on TH-cam ;)
@@Scrubermensch it's called Dorminn, you can find it on TH-cam
My thoughts are pretty close to this. I didn't go into depth about light and dark, but I did see that the "magic" used in every game is very similar and all seemed to work through sacrifice. So I believe all games exist in the same world, and if Guardian isn't directly related to Ico's story, it is at least influenced by the same dark powers.
They all clearly share the same universe, but the story is very vague, yet has enough detail to keep you guessing and engaged.
got to point out one thing..... in SotC Dorman is never portrayed as evil. He doesnt lie to you, he doesnt commit any crime or sin. even when he posses your body AFTER the soldier kills you, Dorman says " i BORROWED the body of this warrior." all dorman wanted was to be whole again. Dorman is NOT a demon, no where is he ever referred to as as a demon or as evil
ic3cold87 the civilization that sacrificed mono and imprisoned dormin may well be the true evil. However, the imagery used leads me to believe that Dormin is evil and releasing him would be bad for humanity as a whole.
if the imagery suggests that, then the baby with horns is evil, ico is evil, and trico is evil.
ic3cold87 horns don’t seem necessarily evil in this series. shadows in the series seem to be associated with evil- the queen, the enemies in the last guardian. Then again the boys in ico become shadows and aren’t necessarily evil unless their evil nature is all that is left behind and is represented by shadow.
ic3cold87 I think a good case could be made that Emon and the religious humans could be the true evil.
I agree
I am thinking that the games are a trilogy told in reverse. Continuity wise, The Last Guardian would be the game furthest set in the past, then come Shadow of the Colossus, and Finally comes the game ICO. The possibility that the Mono might eventually become the antagonist of ICO, and that Wander is the progenitor of all of the Horned Boys is incredible.
Incredible as in "awesome", or as in "not credible"?
@@lucasgill7819 awesome...
Interesting food for thought, and I might agree with most, certainly fills in some blanks I've had about some of the details. I'm not sure as much about an overarching religion, maybe different groups among the ages that happen to come across this same entity, but I feel its more a case of history repeating itself due to lack of knowledge on their part of the past. It feels to me that, while the elder and his group in SotC know that Dormin is dangerous, they may not know fully why, just that it is, and that the fear of horned children stems from superstition after this event transpires, leading to Ico. It's a bit unclear to me whether they know of the queen's existence or if they figure the boys will simply starve there, but at least I guess they know about her sword? Some of it is still a bit difficult to put together.
Not quite as crucial in terms of connecting the three but I think the themes present and how they can be interpreted are interesting. Last Guardian seemed to mostly be a sort of nature vs nurture thing, in regard to how these creatures are known to be dangerous, but it turns out it's only because they've been conditioned to bring children to the tower to get a reward, and steps like the stained glass have been put about as a means to control them. Naturally, at least the Trico we bond with over time, is not hostile towards him and possibly others, if not controlled by the Master or its satellite. That brings up another thing, talk of the tower possibly being from space, thus the valley being a large crater, which may well be true and I feel fits fine, but more importantly I feel its cold, detached atmosphere fits with the theme that these creatures have not been raised with care.
SotC, on the other hand, I think is a bit more straightforward, though still a bit murky on. Not necessarily any actual evidence that Dormin is evil, or why Wander must be stopped, which actually makes me think part of it is again about religious superstition. But then, as I've gotten older, I've come to find as others have said about feeling bad about killing the colossi; how many lives is one life worth? I suppose part of my reluctance is I always thought of the colossi as extensions of Dormin rather than simple entrapments, but I guess that wouldn't make much sense considering it wants to be freed, unless they are just more instinctive in nature.
Ico is the hardest for me, having not finished it myself, only having watched it once, but from what I can recall, one thing that stood out to me from the beginning was the idea of original sin, and perhaps overcoming that. It's difficult to find where Yordah or the Queen fit into this, though. I've theorized the Queen was maybe somehow Mono if she ever found how to use Dormin's power, or perhaps an descendant of hers, and rebuilt the forbidden lands into a fortress, but it's hard to think up why that would matter, really. Maybe if the idea of overcoming past wrongs is a thing, the Queen would represent not letting go of the past, whereas Yordah is new life, or rather the hope of it, unsure whether she survives herself but making sure Ico does.
From an outside point of view. I just got done playing the last guardian, and this video makes so much sense. And if you’re correct that’s a pretty amazing story
basically, ICO, Shadow of the Colossus, and The Last Guardian are on the same world, but separated by distance and time. Which means the queen in ICO is probably Mono in Shadow of the Colossus, that has been living for thousands of years, and has a piece of Dormin inside, which gives her shadow abilities. And she became evil because of the death of people she loved in the tribe she probably created with baby Wander, and has been slowly making her mad. This is the theory on sotc wiki if ur curious
Team Ico Games are Xehanort's wet dream...
This comment was made before KH3. Well done! Haha
Idk if it's been said, but your theory about SotC how they sucked the magic from the land to fuel the collosai would explain the lack of life in any of the regions. Geckos can crawl in from the surrounding forests and the birds can fly in, but otherwise without any life/magic to fuel the ecosystem it would be barren.
I dunno. This video from 7 years ago suddenly appeared on my feed, so here I am.
i think that the theory is good but im pretty sure i read somewhere that the last collosi you kill was used to defend from sea attacks so what is they already made the collosi or the tribe in the last guardian did to protect themselves but somehow the entity was able to manifest the collosi eventually making the inhabitants flee and calling it the forbidden land but tbh it is enough for me that they are in the same world as the guys interview you brought up says
One big point of contention I have is that the temple in SotC doesn’t feel like an evil temple to me.
Great Video. While I haven't played any of the games I do know a bit about the stories. The yin-yang thing makes a lot of sense. More-so when I see people point out that Dormin speaks in both male/female voice. Yin is female while Yang is male. Even though Dormin's giant form appears mostly black(yin) there is the light at the edges of the tendrils that come out of the colossi. The MotV ofc also has both present. Lastly in Ico the queen has both. Given the theorized timeline of LG-Ico-SotC then given each antagonist's appearance we can infer that all 3 are female due to the more visible appearance of the black(yin) with the Queen being human representation. You could even argue that they are the indeed the same entity with each game progressing "her" toward taking a physical form. Also as you go through each game "she" starts to lean more toward yin culminating in "her" somewhere between Ico and SotC gaining a physical body. It may even be that "it" somehow possessed and fused or got tangled with the Queen's soul. Either way because she now has a physical body she is bound by the natural laws and needs to possess a new healthy body in order to avoid death. Now whether her body of the Queen was formed or if she possessed one can only speculate as if she could stay alive in spirit form then it would seem to be the easier choice unless she grew tired of that from in which case I could see her using possession.
Following the alien theory we could say that the MotV was not just an AI but and AI that had developed a consciousness. All the sacrifices might not just have fueled the technology but helped more develop it's soul. With the explosion at the end releasing it. By then it's soul was strong enough to avoid immediately dispersing and found some way to survive up until it apparently became Dormin. Actually thinking up to here then if may be plausible that it possessed the queen who somehow came into contact with the remnants of Dormin's soul. After which as stated she would have to abide by the laws and keep on possessing to survive. And she may have been forced to possess the queen because she was so wounded by the event of SotC.
So I guess my theory is summed up by the antagonist is essentially the same entity in all 3? More so just wanted to elaborate on the yin-yang thing but kinda went off track. Sorry if the post was too long or wordy.
I believe the creator already confirmed they share the same universe prior to releasing the last guardian
Awesome video! That makes a surprising amount of sense. I always knew the game's were linked thematically but that's a pretty solid theory.
The one thing linking these 3 games are my tears, the bittersweet feeling left in me after finishing each one...
One thing I can't help notice when playing ICO and SotC is the similarities between the protagonists' ponchos: same design but different colors. Wander's is literally just black and white while Ico's is more purple and pink. Not only does this tell me the two are members of the same tribe but given the colors it tells me they're separated by numerous generations as though the tribe didn't discover how to dye fabric sometime between the two periods of time. Couple this with how Wander's outfit looks to be made up of a burlap type material and Ico's looks to be modern cloth and it gives it away.
As for TLG, given how the boy doesn't have a poncho signifies that it's more likely around the time before the tribe was formed.
I had watched his video a while ago, thought it was cool but didn't check your channel out at the time.
Found you again through Bloodborne and decided to check out your channel.
Love your content and have since followed, but didn't even realize that I had already checked your stuff out previously! Late to the game, but so glad to join.
I reckon the boy becomes Dormin no other villager has the tribal marks, be begins to show signs of using magic, gets corrupt the tricos die off, the nest falls into ruins and becomes the forbidden lands and the colossi are inspired by all the giant creatures we see in the loading screens in TLG, but idk maybe I'd clutching straws, unless ueda says it all we'll never know
we could say that the light half is the very definition of free will. without it the physical form is overwhelmed by the absense of free will and enlightment or light, hence turning into shadow and obeying or blindly following some entity. therefore as soon as the light of free will or consciousness or life or sentience is combined with the only-physical (shadow) form, the person is revived.
i don't know, i'm probably wrong but it's a cool analogy
It feels like Ico is from the same tribe as Wanter, i always thought about that.
I think listening to all of the great ideas here as well as this video I could come to like the last guardian more, since I was initially disappointed with it, because I couldn't see the links very well.
Idea: TLG came first and started the whole shadow people thing. Once the civilization found out about the light powers they became enthralled, but light cannot exist without shadow. This eventually leads to this "religion" being condemned by the time of SoTC being only being used by the most "faithful" by Ico. The shadows became a way for the under world to manifest itself, and because of the way it is obtained (by separating souls) the turquoise goo cannot exist without shadow people
In the remake of sotc there is an easter egg in the game where you can find one of the barrels that trico eats in tlg
But that's only an Easter egg
I interpreted the three games as humans doing nothing more than finding themselves in the middle of things they didnt understand and using their only storytelling devices to make sense of it: gods, sacrifices, forbidden and sacred.
A primal entity just doing its thing in its own land until man interferes with its purpose and in two games we see something trying to unify itself - man either giving to it (sacrifces) or preventing it (shadow of the colossus). I assumed the queen in Ico and Dormin is the same entity doing its own thing like the entity in Guardian: control and dominion.
There's a barrel in SOC remake in a cave.
The connection between Ico and SOTC is clear with that fact that Wander's actions in the game started the line of horned boy which eventually led to the events of Ico. The origins of the Queen and Yorda are not answered though some people think Mono becomes the Queen - I'm not a personal believer of that theory.
My theory is that when the Lord Emon did his spell at the end of SOTC and dropped the sword into the pool of water, it created the crater in another location which we call the Nest where the The Last Guardian is set as shown where the same pools of water exist in both games. They could be set in the same world but in different locations - or maybe in set different universes/dimensions??
The Master of the Valley may therefore be Dormin trapped in this new ball of evil form. Maybe a group of people tried to use Dormin's power for their own benefit since it is trapped in room at the end of the game but with it's own power was able to influence the activities inside within the valley/Nest to gain control to what we see today. That is until the Boy and Trico do their thing and now Dormin may actually now be gone for good.
Japanese devs tend to LOVE digging into the meanings of foreign words and making it sound more artistic than it really is. Though this isnt exclusive to them, Im pretty sure everyone has noticed that flair that's unique to them.
They like making art where you can interpret it they way they wanted you to once you got all the pieces together, no matter how small or mundane those pieces may seem.
So if people are saying that these are just aesthetic preferences and its all coincidence? I'd maybe believe that, if it wasnt for the fact that this game was made by one of the most notoriously artistic Japanese devs to walk in the industry.
This theory could make sense of tye rings in the desert from shadow of the Colossus as they could be experimentation with the magic or a whay to move the magic around the forbidden lands to put in the colossi
I found a loosely connected link between Ico and the last guardian. On the genDESIGN TH-cam channel a video made in 1998 was released about a year ago and on 2:37-2:45 you can see tattoos on the early stage design of Yorda that look very similar to the boy from tlg. Additionally, they even show footage of it glowing turquoise in the same way. Not sure if you can interpret this as a canonical link between the two, but at the very least it’s impressive to think that team Ico waited almost 20 years to implement a cool character design/plot point.
2022 theory, but like they could all theoretically be apart of the same universe/world, but also not be connected between their stories. The Queen, Dormin, and Master of the Valley, could all be the all powerful gods/Deities they are, but don’t mean they connected , that universe could just be prone to magic elements as the ones seen
My theory is this, in this world, time could be different from earth, maybe millions of years could go by without the humans evolving or advancing by much, but the magic that makes up the shadow/turquoise dichotomy does change or evolve. That magic never really goes away, it just changes form.
These games could take place on the same world, just long enough between for these human societies to be completely lost to history. But the magic reinvents itself, clearly struggling to coexist with humans without either desiring control over them or in SotCs case just trying to survive after being locked away.
Cool video. I have a theory that all 3 games are not really directly connected, but in the same universe, so things are loosely connected. These games are about events that happened 30k to 50k years ago to an ancient dead tribe that had an advanced civilization; each game is a key event that forever changes that civilization, and happens centuries or millenniums from the next. The reverse trilogy theory that some people described in the comments sounds about right too.
Seeing those ring photos at the end made me theorize that "shadow of the colossus" might take place after "ico." I mean, how would one horned child (from sotc) make that many horned children in the future with one woman. Maybe the horned baby at the end of sotc is the first horned child born in a long time. Those rings are from that structure. The watermelon on the beach in sotc symbolises that Ico happened in the past. It just makes so much more sense!
The old man telling the story is the same old man in shadow of the colossus. He's telling the story to wonderer right before he goes to steal the sword.
"I should have known it was you."
I have a theory or set of narratives about Shadow of the Colossus.
First off, from watch various videos on here it's been stated that Dormin is 'Nimrod' backwards. Who's Nimrod? Well, he's a Biblical king who ruled and perhaps was thought to have built many ancient cities like Uruk and Babylon. Extrabibical Christian and Jewish traditions have Nimrod connected to the Tower of Babel, the Biblical story of rivaling the power of God.
So, we have this ancient King in Dormin who also inhabits this towering structure in the Forbidden land. And what's happened to him(?) is that he's been seemingly divided up into the Colossi that dot the land. These Colossi are giant beings representing the ruins of the Forbidden Land and they characterize the ideas of mythical giants from irl very well. Their size for one, but also their connection with stone and the ancient past.
This is where I'm starting see more connections. Dormin, the ancient king, being cut up apart to form Colossi... this makes me think of the reconstruct Proto-Indo European myth of Yemo, the first king and second man of history. Yemo was cut up to form the world, a sacrifice to create a home for his brother Mannus to secure him from the chaos of the rest of the cosmos.
With Yemo, we see two irl mythical figures that in part formed the archetype: Ymir and Yama. With Ymir, we find the origin of Norse mythic giant race the Jotun and being divided up by the gods to form the mortal world. Like Dormin, who was divided up and created the Colossi. With Yama, we see the ancient king who's best understood to rule the underworld realm of the dead. Dormin is based in part on the ancient king Nimrod and seemingly rules over the Forbidden Land.
Now that we have a connection between Dormin as an ancient king and ancient kings ruling the land of dead, is there a connection between the land of the dead and the Forbidden Land? Well, visually, the first thing we come across (and literally go across) is a long bridge in the Forbidden Land. This bridge divides the FL from the contemporary lands that Wander's people seem live. That's cogent with irl stories of the land of dead being separated from the land of the living by a bridge. Wander crosses the bridge and hopes to bring back Mono who's dead back to life.
So Dormin, ancient king of the Forbidden Land where the death can be reversed, starts to be coded in a certain way. Nimrod, Ymir, Yama... in modern myth these traits best describe Satan. But, in the game, Dormin does have coding that points to Satan... and also God. He's place in the Shrine of Worship as a disembodied being enveloped in light who you look up to speak with.
I would propose, that Dormin is representation of Power. Wander is seeking Power to change natural order of death, the fairly neutral coded death of Mono. Lord Emon and the warriors represent society's resistance towards Power that upsets the natural order, while that's a good or bad thing is largely interpretative. What isn't interpretative is how horrifying Power can be, but how it produces the desired results. Mono *is* resurrected. In the other Ico games, the dark/light coding in Dormin is represented in Powers of exploitation. The players represent resistance to that Power, but in Shadow of the Colossus *you* become that Power after conquering the Colossi. A Power that saves Mono and threatens Lord Emon, society, this fits pretty well with the Anti-Hero narrative of modern day.
I guess I could keep going on and on and on about this, but I'll save you the terrible.
- Cheers ❤️😘
You can also add in this theorie that in the remake of sotc on ps4, we can find a barrel from tlg, meaning that even if this game maybe wasn't in the same timeline at first, now it is more possible
Wander doesnt get the horns until he defeats the last colossus
There's a random barrel of turquoise liquid (that Trico likes so much) abandonned in a cave somewhere in Shadow of the Colossus. Does that makes it a Sequel/Prequel, no idea... but that seems to link the games as "same universe" for sure.
I had a theory about the baby and the kid in ico along with the two women.
Who's to say the girl/woman who was brought back to life in colossus, isn't the same one in ico who take baby wonder and raises him and change their name's.
If it's factual then maybe she (or they if he was older) tried to settle down near a village or town, while keeping him a secret only to be discovered, seeing wonder or rather now known/renamed as ico who has horns takes and imprisons him to either sacrifice or be rid of him because the others have seen kids with horns before, knowing exactly that he was reversed into an infant and her being brought back to life.
So the villager's lock them both away as a way to say: "we are not blame or had taken part in the dabbling of life and death."
Another theory to go along with the first weather or not it's the same two people or just a part of the games law/history; is that maybe the sad cycle continues to happen to those who keep bringing the dead back to life, it keeps happening untill the one who wishes life for the loved one, finally fails and dies himself.
Resulting in why wonder is chased down, because of the sad and unnatural loop of the struggles in both games, the broke cycle of life and death, or sometimes failing.
And when someone does fail, they a turned to the dark and cast as a new colossus shadow/synthetic soul/trapped soul.
Doomed to watch others do what they did and having to take their lives.
I love love love your looks on games. I watched them alot over the years and now as I start delving into carl jung and aion, what do I see but your channel studying it. Synchronicity indeed.
That being said the footage nomad showed on his channel of emon throwing a horn into the pool instead of the sword.
Now my current theory on this original intention of the developers is extremely close to your theory. I add simply that tricos species continuation was the big twist ending of guardian. I think that alone is of importance to note, then with emon using a horn to literally seal dormin once he possesses wander.
Its logical to believe tricos were used to seal dormin into the land of the valley creating the colossi.
By use of their horns which have been seen as turqoise blue indicating light energy as you say.
This makes so much sense as the tribe of emon may have committed genocide on the tricos as immense energy was needed to seal dormin so intricately and near fool proof.
If humans can be used to harvest light shouldn't the tricos as well?
So anyways just wanted to further add my take on your theory. Yours is so thought out and well put defining the theme of balance.
Even if dormin is or isnt the master it could be the same dark and light energy. The same as how particles are transferred over time. How humans buried in soil will rejoin and be used again to create life.
Mono was brought back by dormins shadow magic. Its logical to believe her lineage is that of the queen if not herself. The masters defeat could have given rise to dormin with enough time.
The gods seem as entwined and bound by the laws of the universe in their own way. Constantly being reborn with its light counterpart in an endless waltz of light vs dark. A dream of ueda showing us balance in the flesh.
Wanted to add on the way to the 6th colossus in the forest area there is a small hidden cave with a gold coin and a barrel easter egg like the ones from last guardian.
This solidifies that the forbidden lands was once the valley imho. This cave could've served as refuge for trico species as a barrel of their fav food source is there.
Just makes one wonder what emons tribe mustve done to them. Why else are they seemingly extinct in sotc yet barrels of goo can be found in the forbidden lands. Curious indeed.