Really good analysis! We bought and spect a new 991.2 targa GTS and got it delivered in the beginning of 2018. We paid 1450000sek (164000usd). There are now two for sale in Sweden with about 10k miles on the clock and they are up for 170000usd. The Swedish market is going strong!
John Espanol me too. I’ve had mine since May ‘19. Traded a 2010 GT3 for it and it’s such a great compromise. Thing is there are so many great 911s. I’m already craving another one next year. Maybe a Targa GTS or Turbo S
I have a 2019 GTS Targa with a manual. You do make some compromises but all the together it is an amazing car. In sport plus the car is an absolute beast but you can turn the dial and cruise with the top down in comfort.
Your analysis is fantastic! Love your channel. Keep up the great work! This information is very useful for anybody getting into the higher end vehicle market.
Having had 1/2 dozen prior Porsche cars over the past 25 years, I agree, the 991.2 GTS is a superlative value..so called turbo lab, non-existent in my experience, especially when driving a PDK in the Sport + model. Good God does this car tear up the road. This is the best car channel on TH-cam....so date driven, very impressive. I am about to send some money in....why not?
It would be interesting to see an analysis on SL 55 AMG. Reasons are massively produced car, wide range of production year, complex specs, and it is a marvelous car!
This video confirms my own analysis as well. The GTS loses the least amount of money but offers the best overall options standard in the 911 lineup. Ended up purchasing a 2017 991.2 middle of 2020. Really happy with it. Prior to that had a 2012 991.1 S. No comparison at all. the 991.2 is way way better. Thanks for making this video!
@@Max-if4jp I ended up selling mine for more than I bought it for. In all fairness, that would not have happened if it wasn't for the pandemic. But regardless, the GTS trim has the best depreciation curve amongst the Base, S, and 4S, possibly even the Turbo models
Been waiting for this analysis for a while as I'm hoping to pick up a 911 in the near future. this confirms what I've observed. gts' hold their value better, so from a new purchase perspective, it is the better choice. from a used car perspective, i would probably consider the few years older S version as that would have taken the larger depreciation and leveled off. if only the GTS curve was steeper in the first couple years, closer to the S drop off and then a harder level off. but then again, it's that way for a reason!
I would love to see all these numbers in 2022 market where all the prices have gone up dramatically with no new cars available and most used cars cost more then the brand new due to lack of inventory.
Great analysis as always. I am always glad when your analysis is available for a car i own. Keep it up. I am in the UK, and have a Blue 2012 997.2 GTS Pdk coupe with 45k miles. Awesome cars indeed. Might be selling soon if anyone wants depreciation free Porsche fun then let me know.
This is such an awesome channel. One thing you might include is after your analysis pick a car and year you would purchase. For example in this video say "I would buy a 2017 GTS Convertible with a PDK" and then list the reasons why. It would be cool to hear what you would pick yourself and the reasons why...
I agree with someone else below, do a Carrera T. I have one and the car I purchased (used) is now worth about $15k more than I paid! Very low production numbers and rare driver focused spec.
A couple of months ago I struggled so hard between a 981 GT4 and a Carrera T, ended up getting a GT4 but the T had so much charisma! The GT4 is a better sports car but I know I would have driven the s**t out of the T. Anyway, while the T won't be a future classic, because of its attractive price and fan base it will be loved and driven much more than a S or GTS
Thanks for the video. i have had carrera S and GT3RS, GT4. I am a few years older now. Thinking about a GTS for my next Porsche. Although with the current dealerships mark up 🔝, in Southern California Porsche dealerships are asking GT3 15k over MSRP. It sounds not good. I like cars but I am not keen on paying this type of mark up. I called my Porsche dealership, my sale told me 30k over MSRP on a GTS. To me, I worked hard to earn my living, this is a no no to pay this mark up. It’d really took the fun out of purchasing a Porsche. I am not in this hurry to buy a Porsche. And the dealership around don’t have a GTS nor GT3 for a test drive before the purchase.
Really like all your analysis... but this one... is the best I think (comparing to base/S and GT3/turbo) is very nice! Maybe worth keeping in mind for future to do “group test” like on depreciation (R8/l vs GT3 vs GTS) when you already have all the data for each. Great job!
2011-12 GTS with just 30,000-50,000 miles will be free motoring now (even after servicing tyres etc pa) if you keep to 3000 miles a year / Good vid thanks...
Great video, thanks. I'd like to see depreciation analysis on somewhat niche limited edition cars, like Focus RS LE, STI S209, Supra A91 - where we see cars with production numbers that are relatively low. Sometimes it seems to make a difference and depending on the car maybe sometimes not.
there are so many variables that can affect this analysis , overall condition of the car, the spec, the millage , the market at the time of sale or purchase.
But only a few of those really matter. Most price variation can be explained by the model year and mileage. The spec is usually the third most important variable.
I enjoyed this. Makes me think I should hold out for a 992 GTS, even though I know buying new hurts when it comes to depreciation. Where is the accent from?
Your analyses are absolutely excellent. I am narrowing my purchase options amongst a small number of different car brands and your analysis helps enormously with the rational rather than the emotional aspects of car choice. Obviously small model differences will lead to variations that may be beyond the generalized valuations. However, where would you put a 997.2 Carrera 4 GTS with low mileage?
I think .2 is better overall. Yeah NA is better but the turbo is amazing too. I’d rather have better styling, better gas mileage, more power, and better infotainment instead of having naturally aspirated engine
I think it’s misleading to say the GTS has $7,900 per year in depreciation. What you are really saying is there is a $7,900 change by model year. I feel to correctly calculate the depreciation of each model you would take the new price (ie in 2011) vs current sales price. Seems like that would give you a very different view. Especially since each year would have inflation os at 3%, that would account for around $4-$5k difference in price.
This video is outdated given the current market. I recommend having a look at the most recent carrera market update. Additionally, last week's video shows some carrera trends adjusted for inflation. That might be informative as well.
@@fourwheeltrader thanks for the reply. appreciate it is dated but I wanted to check out a pre Covid perspective. Thanks for all of the analysis, just have an issue with the methodology used to calculate deprecation in this video. Still think it’s super helpful.
These cars are absolutely stunning. Nice sounding exhaust. But, I find them to be boring to drive. I would prefer a cheaper but more fun to drive Quattroporte. Just my opinion.
how much should I calculate per year for depreciation on a 2011 991.1 with a purchase price of £49,000 doing 10,000 miles per year? Is there is a simple calcualter or percentage I can use? And, same for a 540i with purchase price of £32,000 which is two years old? Thanks so much in advance.
You never do the R230 generation SL65 AMG, a V12 masterpiece now wholly extinct across the Mercedes brand. One just sold for nearly $60,000 with 73k miles on it. Another sold for $58k in June. Last year these were $50k cars. If you're doing Jags and Aston's then including the SL is just common sense.
I owned a new 2019 GTS with all the performance options and the custom interior...you are going to lose more like $15,000 per year in trade, and most people trade. Few cars are investments. It is a great daily driver.
Exactly why I bought a 2015 991.1 Carrera 4 GTS in 2018 when 991.2 models were available. Luckily in a manual in GT Silver and with $45,620 in factory options. And in the end, some or many Porsche owners worry far too much about depreciation. I wonder how much they really enjoy their cars. Neither of my 911s are for sale.
Love it. 14/15 GTS manual is my next car! Have you ever considered doing vintage cars? For example first generation 67-69 Camaro is very popular. I think it would get a lot of views.
I have an issue with this entire analysis because you are not looking at the depreciation curves for any given model year. The right way to do this would be to look at the price of a model year over time. What did a 2012 sell for in 2012, 2013, 2014, and so on. With your analysis, the big error comes in the average selling price increase every year for a new car. The % increase is different every year and for every model.
True. An analysis of the values over time is the correct way to do this. To my knowledge this data is not available though. Having said that, since im doing this for a while now, I made several analysis which use data from more timestamps. See for example the covid19 price impact video and the corcette c7 market update video. Also, for cars which are relatively new (max 10 years old), i found that the approach based on model years gives good estimates and therefore serves as a proxy. The more a market is bottomed, the less good the model year approach works.
Avoid carmine red as a colour, but overall the 991.1 and 2 are superb in manuals ..we recently sold a 997 GTS cab with miles for less than £40k #ashgood
@@ortontom While I do agree Porsche makes a quality car, I am not convinced value for money drives people to buy them. I bought three cars in a little over a year, not once was it value for money that was a prime consideration. I would suggest it was best for the role, then appeal, then money.
I could never figure that out. Obviously most of them buy and sell their cars every couple of years almost like investing in the market. I won't pay more than MSRP for one though which is typical of the GT cars.
The difference between selling and advertised prices is insignificant for the analysis. It would shift the full market slightly downwards, hereby not affecting the relative numbers.
@@fourwheeltrader Wrong, because it would not shift values by a Constant amount! The fact that you don't understand this means you shouldn't be posting these videos. In some cases purchase price = asking price, in other cases purchase > asking, and in most cases purchase < asking; but in widely varying amounts. Price when new is also important, not just MSRP. You can double the base price of a Porsche with options. Makes a massive difference in what you're trying to do.
The fact that you don't understand this shows that you don't understand the data and the statistics behind it. It's about the distribution shift. Regarding the new prices, these are the advertised new prices and include options.
Really good analysis! We bought and spect a new 991.2 targa GTS and got it delivered in the beginning of 2018. We paid 1450000sek (164000usd). There are now two for sale in Sweden with about 10k miles on the clock and they are up for 170000usd. The Swedish market is going strong!
2018 GTS Cab $124 with 2k miles. I am very happy with my purchase. Thanks for this info
thanks for doing this video. i bought a used 2019 911 GTS and absolutely love it. i feel it was the sweet spot in the 911 line up!!
John Espanol me too. I’ve had mine since May ‘19. Traded a 2010 GT3 for it and it’s such a great compromise. Thing is there are so many great 911s. I’m already craving another one next year. Maybe a Targa GTS or Turbo S
I have a 2019 GTS Targa with a manual. You do make some compromises but all the together it is an amazing car. In sport plus the car is an absolute beast but you can turn the dial and cruise with the top down in comfort.
Your analysis is fantastic! Love your channel. Keep up the great work! This information is very useful for anybody getting into the higher end vehicle market.
Thanks!
Who knew regression analysis could be interesting! Great video. Thanks.
Having had 1/2 dozen prior Porsche cars over the past 25 years, I agree, the 991.2 GTS is a superlative value..so called turbo lab, non-existent in my experience, especially when driving a PDK in the Sport + model. Good God does this car tear up the road. This is the best car channel on TH-cam....so date driven, very impressive. I am about to send some money in....why not?
You are brilliant dude. These videos are so amazing
Love this. JUST bought a 991.2 C4 GTS when I was looking for a 4S. This makes me feel a lot better about spending a little more now :)
Your video's are amazing!! It has assisted me in every vehicle I have purchased and when I sold them it was spot on!!
That's great to hear!
recently picked up a 2018 chalk GTS coupe with the perfect options for me. thanks for the analysis!
It would be interesting to see an analysis on SL 55 AMG. Reasons are massively produced car, wide range of production year, complex specs, and it is a marvelous car!
Would love to see a comparison of the Targa models vs. other "tops".
Another clear, concise, and complete analysis. The formulaic approach is really helpful in making value comparisons. Keep up the good work!
Thanks
This video confirms my own analysis as well. The GTS loses the least amount of money but offers the best overall options standard in the 911 lineup. Ended up purchasing a 2017 991.2 middle of 2020. Really happy with it. Prior to that had a 2012 991.1 S. No comparison at all. the 991.2 is way way better. Thanks for making this video!
Sorry, that’s just wrong. Value from the 991.2 will drop really fast. The 3.8 engine is the out of stock and will be a future classic soon.
@@Max-if4jp I ended up selling mine for more than I bought it for. In all fairness, that would not have happened if it wasn't for the pandemic. But regardless, the GTS trim has the best depreciation curve amongst the Base, S, and 4S, possibly even the Turbo models
Been waiting for this analysis for a while as I'm hoping to pick up a 911 in the near future. this confirms what I've observed. gts' hold their value better, so from a new purchase perspective, it is the better choice. from a used car perspective, i would probably consider the few years older S version as that would have taken the larger depreciation and leveled off. if only the GTS curve was steeper in the first couple years, closer to the S drop off and then a harder level off. but then again, it's that way for a reason!
I would love to see all these numbers in 2022 market where all the prices have gone up dramatically with no new cars available and most used cars cost more then the brand new due to lack of inventory.
great videos, I dontlike too much 911s as Ferraris or lambos but your videos are very interesting
thks
gt4 and spyder? Thanks for the video
Thanks, good suggestions.
Brilliant videos! Would love to see one on the 993!
Great analysis as always. I am always glad when your analysis is available for a car i own. Keep it up. I am in the UK, and have a Blue 2012 997.2 GTS Pdk coupe with 45k miles. Awesome cars indeed. Might be selling soon if anyone wants depreciation free Porsche fun then let me know.
This is such an awesome channel. One thing you might include is after your analysis pick a car and year you would purchase. For example in this video say "I would buy a 2017 GTS Convertible with a PDK" and then list the reasons why. It would be cool to hear what you would pick yourself and the reasons why...
Good suggestion
And btw you could answer this here then ... :)
@@fourwheeltrader I like this idea too!
I agree with someone else below, do a Carrera T. I have one and the car I purchased (used) is now worth about $15k more than I paid! Very low production numbers and rare driver focused spec.
A couple of months ago I struggled so hard between a 981 GT4 and a Carrera T, ended up getting a GT4 but the T had so much charisma! The GT4 is a better sports car but I know I would have driven the s**t out of the T. Anyway, while the T won't be a future classic, because of its attractive price and fan base it will be loved and driven much more than a S or GTS
Is it me or is the 2016 GTS 911 going up in value now? Is that due to the last non turbo? Any update on that model?
Thank you. So useful and succinct! Great. Time to watch to usefulness is off the charts.
Sorry usefulness to time. Off the charts.
Thanks for the video. i have had carrera S and GT3RS, GT4. I am a few years older now. Thinking about a GTS for my next Porsche. Although with the current dealerships mark up 🔝, in Southern California Porsche dealerships are asking GT3 15k over MSRP. It sounds not good. I like cars but I am not keen on paying this type of mark up. I called my Porsche dealership, my sale told me 30k over MSRP on a GTS. To me, I worked hard to earn my living, this is a no no to pay this mark up. It’d really took the fun out of purchasing a Porsche. I am not in this hurry to buy a Porsche.
And the dealership around don’t have a GTS nor GT3 for a test drive before the purchase.
Really like all your analysis... but this one... is the best I think (comparing to base/S and GT3/turbo) is very nice! Maybe worth keeping in mind for future to do “group test” like on depreciation (R8/l vs GT3 vs GTS) when you already have all the data for each. Great job!
2011-12 GTS with just 30,000-50,000 miles will be free motoring now (even after servicing tyres etc pa) if you keep to 3000 miles a year / Good vid thanks...
Would love to see an audi rs5 review, has 2 generation and multiple models, but are not so much available. What do you think?
Thanks. Analize the Carrera T in future vids pls.
Good idea.
We just sold a T at £69k with low miles, lovely car #ashgood
Please analyse the market about 812 Superfast someday!
Can you do an update on this video? I just bought a 991.1 GTS manual 18k miles for 135 and friends bought one for 139 in orange with 20k miles
Excellent as always!!!
How about the Mercedes Benz G wagon ??
Here in germany the 991.2 gts sells over new price rn.. probably because it‘s the last loud 911 without Particulate filters
Great video, thanks. I'd like to see depreciation analysis on somewhat niche limited edition cars, like Focus RS LE, STI S209, Supra A91 - where we see cars with production numbers that are relatively low. Sometimes it seems to make a difference and depending on the car maybe sometimes not.
could you please do an update video of this? thank you
Thank you. Great video.
Watch for the 991 GTS built till 2017, especially the cabrio. Price is growing for the last of non turbo charged models.
Great video.. u should have more subscribers! Loved my 991.2 C4-GTS... Such a great daily driver
How much did you pay for it?
awesome thank-you! Seems GTS is the way forward for a 991.1 *BOOM*
Can you please make a depreciation analysis for a 991.2 Carrera T varient
What about the Porsche 991.2 4S with factory Powerkit? GTS without the blackout kit and centerlock wheels.
I would like to see the Audi S5 and S5 sportback analysis
How about Targa's depreciation specific video?
Thanks for doing this video bro, keep it up 😍😍
I want to see Panamera’s!
Have you considered an analysis between an 18-19 911 4 GTS and a 2020 4S with some upgrades?
I really like this information. Thanks
Do you also compare maintenance cost of ownership?
Can you do one on the 981 GTS preferably Boxster. With the 718 getting the 4.0 soon want to hear how it’s effecting the market
Please make a.video for the mclaren 12c!
2021 718 GTS 4.0 Cayman please. Great informative video!
there are so many variables that can affect this analysis , overall condition of the car, the spec, the millage , the market at the time of sale or purchase.
But only a few of those really matter. Most price variation can be explained by the model year and mileage. The spec is usually the third most important variable.
I enjoyed this. Makes me think I should hold out for a 992 GTS, even though I know buying new hurts when it comes to depreciation. Where is the accent from?
I'm Dutch
Dacht ik wel
Civic type r would be a great video if u could do the analysis
Your analyses are absolutely excellent. I am narrowing my purchase options amongst a small number of different car brands and your analysis helps enormously with the rational rather than the emotional aspects of car choice. Obviously small model differences will lead to variations that may be beyond the generalized valuations. However, where would you put a 997.2 Carrera 4 GTS with low mileage?
The big question is 991.1 GTS ( NA) vs 991.2 GTS ( Turbo)
In Germany they have the same price by same milage. So the value of a 991.1 is better
Any thoughts on this? Looking at both .1 and .2 GTS
I think .2 is better overall. Yeah NA is better but the turbo is amazing too. I’d rather have better styling, better gas mileage, more power, and better infotainment instead of having naturally aspirated engine
Lamborghini Murcielago LP-640 and pre LP please!
I think it’s misleading to say the GTS has $7,900 per year in depreciation. What you are really saying is there is a $7,900 change by model year. I feel to correctly calculate the depreciation of each model you would take the new price (ie in 2011) vs current sales price. Seems like that would give you a very different view. Especially since each year would have inflation os at 3%, that would account for around $4-$5k difference in price.
This video is outdated given the current market. I recommend having a look at the most recent carrera market update. Additionally, last week's video shows some carrera trends adjusted for inflation. That might be informative as well.
@@fourwheeltrader thanks for the reply. appreciate it is dated but I wanted to check out a pre Covid perspective. Thanks for all of the analysis, just have an issue with the methodology used to calculate deprecation in this video. Still think it’s super helpful.
These cars are absolutely stunning. Nice sounding exhaust. But, I find them to be boring to drive. I would prefer a cheaper but more fun to drive Quattroporte. Just my opinion.
how much should I calculate per year for depreciation on a 2011 991.1 with a purchase price of £49,000 doing 10,000 miles per year? Is there is a simple calcualter or percentage I can use? And, same for a 540i with purchase price of £32,000 which is two years old? Thanks so much in advance.
Check the 911 Carrera S video for the rates of that car.
Would be alot easier if you could answer my questions as already watched your video twice 🤷♂️
My BMW M4 CP lost 19k £ in 9 months.🤣 I should go Porsche. (And that was already heavily discounted)
It must be a M4 from 2019? My car is M4 CP manual.
Audi Rs4 next please preferably a b7
Bentley Bentayga! And maybe some other premium SUV’s?
Thanks, good idea.
If you don't wanna lose money on a Porsche get an air cooled one!
The 991.1 Gts is not better ?
You never do the R230 generation SL65 AMG, a V12 masterpiece now wholly extinct across the Mercedes brand. One just sold for nearly $60,000 with 73k miles on it. Another sold for $58k in June. Last year these were $50k cars. If you're doing Jags and Aston's then including the SL is just common sense.
First year depreciation is about 18%. Additionally, Porsche value is also extremely sensitive to mileage.
Do a 458 analysis please!
There is already a video of the 458 on my channel, check it out.
@@fourwheeltrader definitely will! Thanks.
Have you done the gallardo or huracan pre performante and evo yet?
@@michaelyhchai The Gallardo and the huracan also have their own videos on the channel.
How about bmw M'sss....?
I owned a new 2019 GTS with all the performance options and the custom interior...you are going to lose more like $15,000 per year in trade, and most people trade. Few cars are investments. It is a great daily driver.
Most of the prices in the video are indeed dealer prices.
991.1. GTS is the best with the Last 3.8 NA Engine, prices in Europa much higher as the 3.0 Liter Engine
Exactly why I bought a 2015 991.1 Carrera 4 GTS in 2018 when 991.2 models were available. Luckily in a manual in GT Silver and with $45,620 in factory options. And in the end, some or many Porsche owners worry far too much about depreciation. I wonder how much they really enjoy their cars. Neither of my 911s are for sale.
BMW M2 OG
That one is already covered on the channel. Check it out
*Which car would you like to see analysed next?*
Honda Civic Type R?
Have you done Macan or Macan turbo?
Love it. 14/15 GTS manual is my next car! Have you ever considered doing vintage cars? For example first generation 67-69 Camaro is very popular. I think it would get a lot of views.
Gt4
How about an American muscle car special? Mustang vs Camaro vs Challenger. That would be very interesting.
I have an issue with this entire analysis because you are not looking at the depreciation curves for any given model year. The right way to do this would be to look at the price of a model year over time. What did a 2012 sell for in 2012, 2013, 2014, and so on. With your analysis, the big error comes in the average selling price increase every year for a new car. The % increase is different every year and for every model.
True. An analysis of the values over time is the correct way to do this. To my knowledge this data is not available though. Having said that, since im doing this for a while now, I made several analysis which use data from more timestamps. See for example the covid19 price impact video and the corcette c7 market update video. Also, for cars which are relatively new (max 10 years old), i found that the approach based on model years gives good estimates and therefore serves as a proxy. The more a market is bottomed, the less good the model year approach works.
Avoid carmine red as a colour, but overall the 991.1 and 2 are superb in manuals ..we recently sold a 997 GTS cab with miles for less than £40k #ashgood
Why avoid Carmine?
@@johnnymiller1000 can be a slow seller
If this is the supply in all of the USA then it's unlikely you'll find one you won't have to fly to to evaluate. $$$
You completely missed the mark without mentioning the Carrera T which is an incredible value and future collectible. A little disappointed
I didn't mention the Carrera T. There is not enough data to make an analysis about that model.
Overpriced when new.
Do people who buy Porsches actually worry about best value for money?
Yes as they usually are high income bracket earners that like to buy best value. Porsches offer so much for the money, cheap to service too
@@ortontom While I do agree Porsche makes a quality car, I am not convinced value for money drives people to buy them. I bought three cars in a little over a year, not once was it value for money that was a prime consideration. I would suggest it was best for the role, then appeal, then money.
I could never figure that out. Obviously most of them buy and sell their cars every couple of years almost like investing in the market. I won't pay more than MSRP for one though which is typical of the GT cars.
Totally flawed because actual selling prices are not taken into account, and neither are actual selling prices when new. This “report” is meaningless.
The difference between selling and advertised prices is insignificant for the analysis. It would shift the full market slightly downwards, hereby not affecting the relative numbers.
@@fourwheeltrader Wrong, because it would not shift values by a Constant amount! The fact that you don't understand this means you shouldn't be posting these videos.
In some cases purchase price = asking price, in other cases purchase > asking, and in most cases purchase < asking; but in widely varying amounts.
Price when new is also important, not just MSRP. You can double the base price of a Porsche with options. Makes a massive difference in what you're trying to do.
The fact that you don't understand this shows that you don't understand the data and the statistics behind it. It's about the distribution shift. Regarding the new prices, these are the advertised new prices and include options.
It should be called the "Porsche School bus" it's humongous. It looks like a raunchy American car.
Meaning that you cannot afford one!
bufffff jajajaja
This video is a BLATANT LIE. Porsche GTS or C4S loose about $20,000 a year.
This is not what the data shows. Please share why you feel that the numbers from the data are not correct.
What? This thing loses no money lol
Have a look at the market update.