Barista Training - Coffee Puck Preparation Comparison
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ค. 2022
- In this video we are doing more barista training and looking at the difference between old school puck preparation and new, modern puck preparation. Jimmy goes full nerd in this tutorial running the comparison like a proper science experiment. He puts the two different methods back to back and runs three shots using each method measuring the shot times and extracted yield.
The results of Jimmy's experiment paint a very clear picture and after watching this tutorial you will clearly see how poor, careless distribution of coffee in the basket adversely affects the extraction. Spending those few extra moments taking care to weigh out your dose, distribute the coffee and tamp evenly will really make a huge difference in the flavor of the coffee you are making.
In this day and age there are numerous tools available to baristas to help make this process even easier. We have access to automated tampers which not only makes individual tamp pressure consistent but it also provides uniformity across all the baristas working in the same espresso bar. We have distribution tools like the NCD (Nucleus Coffee Distributor) to evenly distribute the ground coffee around the basket. There are barista scales and dosing pots as well as a whole host of other tools that are becoming more and more popular and utilized by baristas such as the WTD (Weiss Distribution Technique).
Thanks so much for watching we hope this video makes sense and provides enough reason as to why you should be implementing a more modern approach to your puck preparation.
Tools used in this video:
Cinoart Automatic Tamper - artisti.com.au/products/cinoa...
NCD (Nucleus Coffee Distributor) - artisti.com.au/products/ona-c...
Dosing Pot - artisti.com.au/products/rhino...
Acaia Lunar Barista Scales - artisti.com.au/products/acaia...
Corner Tamp Mat - artisti.com.au/products/rhino...
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Perfect explanation and very clear example, thank you!
You’ve very welcome 🤗 thanks for the feedback.
What did you find most helpful?
@@ArtistiCoffeeRoasters I believe that the proof without a doubt that being consistent is what can elevate your extraction quality, and therefore the quality of your espresso. As a home barista, it is very useful!
Fantastic video...i would love to know how i could mimic these tips in a home barista setting. Learning a lot.
I normally follow your teaching from Kenya and hoping to be the best Barista some days to come. My interest for coffee just flipped to a love. I trust the process that's why i do take my free time at the current cafe am working as precious by watching your videos. Actually have just put the notification bell on 😎
Another great barista video, at our cafe we started using the Mahlkonig E65S GBW which has been the best investment. The puqpress underneath makes it a great clean work space. The grinder recognises the programmed handles (they have weight difference), it doses exactly the recipe we use, up to .1 of a gram accurate pretty much every single time. A distributer is still a must. One think id add to his work flow is activating the shot quicker. The heat of the head may impact the extraction. Dont leave the handle on the head for more than a second or two. It heats up the fresh grind very quick and effects extraction. Cheers! Keep it up!
Thank you and love this for me to make the best coffee at home! ❤
I know you mean well and did this for teaching. But every time you knocked the portafilter with the tamper, I caught myself cursing silently in my head 🤣
It hurt us just as bad 😂
😭
But you didn't weight the 'Old School' method.
@@foxfotos3223 No that's exactly right. The old school method is where you would grind straight into the handle and hope for the best. This really highlights the inconsistencies of a grinder when you are just relying on time.
before I use to do back tamping like what he did..
I’d find it very interesting seeing how wdt followed by old school tamping would stack up, because mine is closer than what you’ve done here, it’s almost identical every time and let’s you focus on grind size to change the time needed etc.
Back in the day made tens of thousands in a busy cafe in an upmarket arts & leisure complex. Had a massive Italian machine with 4 heads. Banged out all variations from breakfast to the busy pre and post theatre crowd even served famous celebs. Was fast & furious. Loaded the handles by hand with dexterous scoops into a metal dose spoon from a big stainless tub of pre ground coffee. banged the basket soundly on the wood counter to settle then quick solid tamp. Water already run through the head quick switch off then insert the handle then switch on water again then hastily arrange the necessary cups... Someone would sum the coffees on the dockets and yell above the din "10 caps、6 flat whites、 3 black、5 espressos、3 double espressos、 9 lattes、2 ristrettos、2 Irish、 1 ice coffee." None of this machine dosing and weighing business. Firm、 hard pucks、simple、fast、 good times.
Thanks for the comparison between old and new methods. Please do a similar video using decaf, for those of us who have difficulty regulating the weight out and the extraction time with these coffees.
Our decaf is very similar, except we change the ratio to 23g and 40g out in 30 seconds. You can use a dosing tool if you can’t weigh the coffee.
It's fun to watch a pro rip through it. Nice work. It would be interesting to add wire distribution to the mix and see where that leads. Not something you'd do in a cafe but certainly something a lot of home brewers are doing these days.
no need for him to "rip through it" when he doesn't even have one order up either but here we are.
This was really good to see. Thanks. I’m trying not to knock my portafilter…not sure how much difference it makes, as I’m pre-infusing but trying to build good habits.
This is so helpful for us home barista who's learning without proper education of the process, thank you :)
Awesome. Thanks
The home barista, where time taken to prepare is less of an issue, should be using WDT. In the commercial setting, the time to eke that last bit of perfection out of puck prep could probably be better used elsewhere, but at home, that extra 20 seconds per shot gives you the best chance IMO.
Agreed. Watching videos like these help novice home baristas like myself achieve better shots.
In the past month, I’ve:
bought a espresso scale
bought a WDT
upgraded the tamper
bought a Timemore ESP
bought a dosing ring
bought a puck screen
timed and weighed my shots
adjusted my grind
spritz before grinding
.. and as a result, enjoy the quality of shots more now
@@ArtistiCoffeeRoastersthanks I never knew if I start the timer before or after pressing the start button
Nice video. What you've done is compared mechanical tamping vs manual tamping. I'm unconvinced of the value of using a distributor. You claim that adding these extra steps yield longer extraction times. Now, repeat this experiment but skip the distributor step. I suspect the extraction times will be unchanged.
All well executed experiments need a control. Skip the distributor and run it again.
Nice content! Im really into these kinda videos and want to become a good barista. Love the way how u guys teach nd was wondering tho is there a video of u guys detailed explanation of how to use a coffe machine or a grinder ^^
These is too much to cover in one video and so many different brands with variations. Our Chanel would cover most of the things you would need across several videos
working with modern tools is one way to avoid the difference when tamper coffee, yes that's true, and when I use the old way I often get unstable in pressing coffee
I'd be curious to see what the potency difference is between the two styles. I've brewed beer for a lot of years and use a refractometer and hydrometer. I would venture to guess there is something similar for coffee? I just bought a Rancilio Silvia and looking to install a PID.
Thank you Jimmy and Luke for such videos and training on how to make a a coffe. I am planning to open a small coffee shop. How can you help me with this project? Many thanks
Would be nice if there would be a Barista School here in Florida, Bradenton. Still struggling with the art phase
Thanks again for all the valuable information. Now, I can proof to my family and friends, the reason for weighing my coffee and yield.
To them its a waste of time.... but they do come back for another cup.
I haven't been a professional barista for over 20 years and getting back into it now there is so much more to it lol. All I ever used for puck prep back then was a grinder and tamper. Now when watching videos to "catch up" there are all these new steps. I don't even remember ever seeing a bottomless portafilter before.
You got this! Times have changed for the better, I remember making my first coffee 26 years ago and I was just pointed to the machine and told to have a go! 😂
@@ArtistiCoffeeRoasters hahaha wow. I at least had a little training for my first coffee I made but not that much. Yes I can see that people have really put in the work and got these extraction techniques yielding impressive results. I just wasn't expecting such a massive change haha. MASSIVE Thanks to good folks like yourself who actually makes these videos because it helps me so much.
@@ArtistiCoffeeRoasters i made my own naked portafilter 20 years ago. about the same time i bought a mazzer and started distributing the top of the coffee before tamping and everything has been perfect since.
@@realretrorelapse😂😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😂😊😊
Stick to your old methods.
Im so happy to have my own espresso machine at home if this is what the worlds coming to
I have this unique opportunity to take over ownership of this espresso bar near my home town, and the guy running it was showing me how he pulls his espresso as an old fashioned Italian. I swear I felt like every time he struck that portafilter with his tamper he was hitting me lol. I introduced him to my personal prep tools, a clump whisk and a distributor. It was so alien and strange to him that he didn't find it necessary at all. Needless to say I have a lot of changes to make once I take ownership
Sure, the customers will love the higher quality coffee you make, also if you have never been shown the light then you will stay in the dark, he was doing his best. 👍🏻
I’m an old school barista but I would NEVER knock the side of the basket!! I believe tamping is an art that you can adjust according to how your coffee is behaving on the day. Variables are a part of life and I think that art doesn’t have to be identical every time to be excellent.
I would only add it is so sad that more and more we are solving our problems by buying more things rather than getting more skilled in what we do. 2 pair of scales, elecktric damper etc…
Indeed, if I wanted consistancy I would buy a fully automatic machine and not let a barista make me a coffee. It's crazy how new products are found to make a craft-product dominated by machinery again. And in the end every coffee place gets them, tops up the price making it a luxury product, not even speaking about every place also looking the same without any character. While it in the ens is the love and the personality you want to taste in the environment and the cup when going to a coffee place.
The first rule of becoming a barista should be to research the roots of this coffee culture and then see if you really need all of this equipment.
That's right. To make the perfect shot with old school way u need to make perfect every step. That's the art and the big difference. U are the batista, not your tools
@@allansuurkask2916 is moving one scale from the grinder to your machine really a display of skill? And is that "skill" really worth wasting your customers time?
@additionalpylons if I had to wait for these clowns weighing coffee grind and using numerous tools for a coffee and would never return. Absolutely ridiculous. Coffee does not need to be over complicated like this to taste good if you know what you are doing.
Seeing this would come across to me like watching a bar tender making me a cocktail while reading a cheat sheet and measuring everything to the exact ml.
I would leave. Any craft does not need to be over complicated to yield great results
Thanks for the video Jimmy. Question. In your opinion is a dosing cup better for breaking up clumps than using a WDT tool? I'm a home barista using a Ceado E37J. It seems to be a lot quicker and simpler method. Thanks.
The combination gives you the best opportunity for better distribution. This isn’t really a game of speed and simplicity. Honestly, we’re complicating this but for good flavour reasons ☺️
I wish i could do this in my store . But we can’t due to high volume of customers daily that lasts for 3-4 hrs non stop . (They are those impatient bunch) . And due to budgeting , owners aren’t focused much on the improvement of coffee equipment .
Useful info. Thks.
So nice of you
Using a bottomless portafilter to look for even extraction across the puck is also helpful. I ended up using a c-curve RB tamper base to dial that in. Orphan Espresso dosing funnel helped me with WDT with a paper clip, too. Never needed scales since I leveled off the top of the basket prior to tamping, but did use a timer to pull 2oz by volume in 25-30sec.
Neither is the one to go to, it's more of a balance, and bits in-between.
Back in the day we used to knock the p/f with a tip of a tamper and that worked well only and only in situations when you'd knock it before tamping the puck...if you did it after then you needed to make sure you re-tamped it again.
WDT is an option for "clumpy" domestic, home and kitchen aplliance type grinders, but for most of us who rely on commercial ones on daily basis, which produce fluffy grind, it's a no...another unnecesary and time consuming product we do not need and can live without. Fluffy grind requires a little of light tapping of a side of a p/f with a palm, then leveling before tamping.
Levelers/apinners etc are a good adition to your workflow as they not only level the uneven top of the puck but give you a goid and solid level (horizontal) reference point before a tamp. Most folk fail in puck orep at the tamp sequence, producimg non-leveled compressed puck resulting in chanelling and uneven extraction.
Thanks for the video, there will be a lot of younger and new folk to espresso prep who will come up with their own view on puck prep, that's for sure.
Social media pushes a lot of the tools down their throats but many if not most "new age" tools are more of a nuisance then a benefit.
Question: in regards to the little silver dosing cup you load the grind into; taking espresso grounds in and out to achieve the correct weight is oxidizing the espresso grinds that are off to the side no? Does that not really make much of a difference to cup quality? Thanks for your time!
For the short time it’s exposed, the pros of good distribution out way the cons of oxidisation 👌🏼
Can you do a review on the new Barista Express Impress machine please? I’ve seen people on Facebook who have bought it but I’m not a huge fan of the built-in tamper
Yep, it’s on the list 👊🏻
It seems like consistent tamping pressure and coffee distribution is key to consistent espresso. Would have been interesting to see the results without weighing the dose exactly just to see how much difference that step makes.
love your tips bro! just wanna ask the name of what you used modern tamper on your video?
I resisted these techniques for years… I think because I thought them unnecessarily obsessive. But they do make a big difference on repeatability … and, gives youa stable basis to judge the impact of changing any one variable. I mean, how can you test any changes if you are already getting highly variable results
Correct! The biggest variable is the person, with pressure, a little more grind as it looks not full enough, maybe a pit of a tap here, and not changing the grind to suit a standard process will leave you lost in the woods.
Thanks Jimmy for the comparison.
Do you focus more on the yield for the new school? So timing follows the yield?
The old school says espresso is made around 27-30 sec, ard 60g yield. But the new school here seems longer than espresso.
Really appreciate further explanation.
Greeting from Indonesia...
Thanks
We use a 1:2 ratio for full extractions.
So our machine is programmed to give us 45g of yield from 22.5g of dose.
Old school was always focused on just time.
New school is managing how much yield you get out of an amount of dose in the ideal amount of time.
Hope that helps!
@@ArtistiCoffeeRoasters Wouldn't 36s be considered quite long (=overextraction) though? I know it depends on the beans used, but 36s seems like a long time. I tend to aim for 25-30s for 1:2 ratio.
Brilliant
What im wondering most about is, that seemingly no caffee uses a wdt tool, as it has shown in numerous studys, and quite a few coffee youtubers that this is the biggest factor to evenness in extraction and extraction in general. Im sure it can be automated as well (thinking about something like the puck press with a motor that spins and moves upwards slowly).
If you are going to the lenght of dosing each shot, why not just single dose anyways. I mean sure, a big caffee needs to amp up speed in order to gain money, but specialty coffee places should go to the length of single dosing anyways in order to accomdate the different coffees they offer. I hate when i cant taste the coffee i want to buy.
If i would desing a modern workflow it would be: Machine that weighs beans into dosing cup (automated, there are prototypes here on youtube), grind into portafilter with funnel, automated wdt in small circles slowly moving upwards (also automated), puck press for even tamping pressure, into the machine. Every detail can be controlled and fine tuned to maximum taste and the barista doesnt have to try around. Offer 3 different espressos each week, one on each group.
A few high end Specialty cafe actually uses a WDT that also acts as a distributor which saves a lot of time in puck prep but that thing is very expensive
Mostly WDT are used by home Baristas (at least that’s what I have seen)
Dosing grinding machine is also very very expensive and so fast pace specialty cafe weighs their shot all the time (experienced people can do very fast and they have no problems with doing so as long as they could save a bit of finance while still keeping consistency)
Each group for different bean is a heck of a slow workflow (imagine peak hour when your best seller bean got ordered 50 times in a row and each ordered has 2-5 drinks on it, you’re gonna pull 50 multiple shots non stop on 1 group?)
I get your idea, but it is only suitable for very high end cafe with a rich and smart owner who could get enough customers to maintain the cafe while still keeping every shots 100% perfect as you say
I’ve worked in many cafes, studied about coffee and would love to do what ur saying but it is financially impractical
Love seeing that for all the expensive equipment, you're still using the same cheap scale that I am. LOL.
For those of us who don't want to spend the $$ on an automatic tamper (way overkill for home use) what would you suggest for consistency on a hand unit?
Spring loaded tamper for home use
They're reasonably inexpensive and last pretty well as long as they don't get wet. Yeah I thought that too.
I am genuinely skeptical about these OCD and NCD distributer tools. Needle distribution may be slower, but for private use, it seems perfectly appropriate.
I do both WDT & OCD.
Agreed, I weigh input, do WDT, careful tamp, weigh output. I think OCD/NCD is just top level grooming, does not address inconsistencies through the whole puck. I see some competitors in barista comps do both.
@@marcandrecoutu4798 what is even the point about compressing the top and leaving the bottom prone to channeling by not touching it? It's super weird i don't understand how these distributer tools are remotely addressing this. Seems like a $15 puck rake is simply superior to a one of these $200 distributer tools.
@@unlink1649 totally agree. The prices of these devices are insane. They are leveraging champion baristas' name to make unreasonable margins.
Sprometheus did a clear comparison between some distributions method; and the winner always imply some kind of needle; go check it out ;-)
This is so great. I mean putting the comparisons on a table leaves no doubt of which method is better. We need to keep consistency of our outcome as much as possible. Thank you
No, this is bullshit 😅 First he didnt clean good head where go coffe.. Because its immposible without brush (if you clean with towel how he do you put dirty in every hole of metal "filter" where coffe go.. So when he make one coffe was good.. Next coffe was less coffe because holes are full from dirt of last coffee.. Etc.. Look how his first 3 coffe drop from 46 to 44 grams.. Also thats mean that his machine is not calibrate to push same every time or he have dirty metal filter..
The consistency did not come from the methods used though it’s just because he didn’t weight the first time.
Longer extraction time doesn't matter if it doesn't taste good.
Correct. But I'm pretty sure he knows that timing is better. Moreover, without changing the grind size, he's gotten about 8 more seconds of extraction and more consistency, which means if it doesn't taste good, he can change grind size and be done with it. Instead of wondering what else is going on like channeling, etc. Listen to what he says at 10:19.
Wow. The link for the Nucleus has it for 200 bucks. However, coffee distributors are all over Amazon starting around 35.
Yep. There is a difference in quality and shape.
In the old school method you are not weighing the coffee grinds, but in the modern method, you are sticking to a fixed weight. How is it useful to compare when your first method basically has a different amount of coffee than the second?
You are basically showing that the old school method where you are not weighing and following a recipe will produce inconsistent results. The goal of our modern method is to produce consistent, repeatable results day in day out. :)
How do you set up your wedge distributor? I.e. how much lower than the rim of the basket should your puck be after distribution?
I'd much like to see your PuqPress (or your alternative device) used to evaluate the effect of tamp pressure on extraction. For example, keeping all the other variables the same (# g of ground coffee, brew pressure) using tamping pressures of 20#, 30# and 40# (for example), determine the effect these have on the extraction (time, weight). I've been told numerous times that tamp pressure is not that important. This would seem to provide a definitive answer to that question.
Nicely done video as usual, thanks!
We’ve heard that plenty too so I’m putting that on the list. Keep an eye out for it soon.
Thanks
Cafe Martella Did a recent video where he compared the different flavors he got using different pressures with an auto tamper
there is a lengthy test here on youtube already comparing tamp pressure with the puck press. Result was that as long as you tamp (weight of a heavy tamper is enough), it wont really make a difference.
@@Caffeine.And.Carvings Thank you! Haven't seen that one, but what you say is what I've always suspected. Many claim uniform tamp pressure (whatever it is, just keep it the same) is important, but I've always questioned even that. So many variables, it's nice to eliminate a few of them. Appreciate the pointer, I'll look for it.
i respect your videos; but must say that channeling also can come from hanging in a portafilter with a hit against the espressomachine. Next to that i love the old way of puck prep; with a little bit more attention on the grinder i become faster; dont need the extra step. And at least it lets me predict the weather ;)
a corn fork or needle distributor is all you need to get this benefit. hand tamping is fine as above a certain force nothing really changes.
Do you think WDT is worth using in a café setting? I see a lot of folks on the internet talk about how essential WDT when making espresso at home, but I wonder if it has a place with the scale you're operating in at a café.
Considering there are tools like the Normcore needle distributor, I don’t think adding that step will cause a huge inefficiency in cafes.
I think the better question is if it’s a milk based drink, will the average coffee drinker notice a difference?
We’re not far off introducing it to cafes but it’ll take the right baristas to really adopt the extra step. The NCD was already an extra step, this is another but both for the greater good 😊
Yeah these are easier to use in a fast paced cafe for sure.
I think milk drinkers still appreciate a balanced cup.
I worked in fast paced cafés for a number of years - this new school method would absolutely not work if there's a rush and you're needing to pump out the coffee.
@@midianite indeed. Here (Italy) this approach wouldn’t work in any bar from 7 to 9 AM, unless you don’t consider losing half of your customers a disadvantage.😊
Sorry noob question - how does the LM machine "decide" when to stop? what is programmed here? I always thought time is the programmed variable here.
Just curious, which espresso machine do you guys use at your shop?
Right now, it’s a 3 group La Marzocco Linea PB but we often change it up. However, it’s always a La Marzocco.
I'd like to see a similar video done with single dosing
We have a set recipe for our baskets, just replicate it with your own recipe
@@ArtistiCoffeeRoasters ok cool
Great video. I need help!! I'm a home barrista and relatively new to it. I've watched loads of videos and and am defo new school. However I still can't get my extraction to not squirt and dribble from my open basket. I weigh my coffee, grind it using a quality bur grinder, use a tool to get the lumps out, use a leveller and tamp tool and still no success. I don't think I can take any more care of my puck prep. I'm starting to get very frustrated. Please can you offer and advice?
This sounds so frustrating! I feel for you. You'll need to consider the age of the coffee. Make sure it's 7-21 from roast date to ensure you're getting the contact time & expansion needed to not created unwanted channeling. You may want to upgrade to a VST basket to ensure it's managing the pressure well. You can also try doing a one second pre infusion to help with a more even saturation of your puck prior to full pressure extraction. Let me know how you go.
Jimmy
might be a stupid question but: does it matter how soon will the coffee start coming out of a Portafilter? if i have 18gr of espresso coffee starts coming out at 6 seconds is it ok?
6 is good, it means you have a good restriction in the head from a fine grind
Making coffee it's not only pushing buttons and let your devices do the work. I would like to see all those new baristas using a manual grinder. 😂
My "2 cents" for home brewing (Kinu grinder and Gaggia Classic Pro, IMS basket, 9 bar OPV): the more I make preparation the bigger impact is on the end result - taste (bitter or sour). So I decided to gind (17 grams), level and tamp and that's it. This way I have more consistent result in the cup in meaning of taste of the coffee. I just use stopwatch to measure time (in the past I measured yield also), around 27 sec, depending of how long I keep my beans in the fridge.
When I used WDT tool, I was not able to get 2 consecutive coffees taste the same.
At the end, it's not about grams, time or preassure it is about the taste of the coffee.
It's always about taste. But if you keep all the variables consistent. You're able to replicate the shot profile time and time again and therefore it'll taste as close as possible to what you want. Obviously aging coffee will change this. And that is why we dial in to a recipe everyday
@@adaz240 Agree, if you have the procedure to follow each time, you should expect same result, with less changes as possible (minimize small variable impact).
To dial in every day at home, for 3-4 espressos per day - not sure it makes sense and is economic. But some trade-offs must be made. If we limit ourselfes those small times of the day to fully enjoy in cup of good espresso - then what else shold we do? :D
I have the classic pro, and find that the shots vary a lot. I need to simplify the process, and try without the wdt, puck screens, distribution tool, etc
Whats that filter machine in the background? I am looking for an alternative filter machine with that brushed stainless steel look.
It's the Breville Precision Brewer which we love and have been using for years now. You can learn more about it here: artisti.com.au/products/breville-precision-brewer
I am new to making my own espresso at home. I have an inexpensive delonghi machine and a crux grinder. I’m having trouble getting to a 25-30 second extraction. I am weighing 12g of fine grind coffee and shooting for 24grams output. I am doing my best to have a level coffee bed and use a tamper for this. It is taking about 20 seconds. I have varied the grind size and it doesn’t make much of a difference with extraction time. If it is more finely ground, then the coffee continues to drip out after I stop the machine. If it is coarser it stops more quickly when I stop the machine. This machine is totally manual.
Any tips for how I can get a longer extraction?
I'm a novice like you, but have you tried ~~temping~~ tamping with more pressure?
Novice here, but have you tried tamping harder? Also, are you using a single filter basket? As 12g in a double filter basket is too little coffee.
*Edited for clarity*
I think you won't be able with this equipment... it is a little bit wanting a Ferrari performance out of a Volkswagen. But if you are investing in a better grinder you propably will already get closer to 25 seconds. (Tip is to get yourself a grinder out of the industry and replace the parts that are grinding the beans. Most companies just get new equipment because they need it daily and sell out the old while it is build to last)
Make it 10 grams
Thank you but I couldnt follow or understand one things. How is the machine changing its dispensing time with each puck?
Think of it this way…
The machine is programmed to let a certain amount of water though.
No coffee in the head, 8 second drop of water.
Well distributed coffee in the head, 36 seconds.
Bad distribution will allow channeling and that water can get through faster in 28 seconds.
The time is not programmed, it’s dictated by the resistance caused by the coffee puck.
Hopefully this helps.
One question. How does timing vary ? Isnt the machine programmed to dispense set amount every cycle?
Hey mate what depth do you have your distribution tool adjusted to or how do you recommend one figure out what depth they should adjust theirs to?
It should only be deep enough to distribute the coffee but not put tamp it.
@@ArtistiCoffeeRoasters Thanks 👍🏽👍🏽 I ended up adjusting it to the same depth as my tamper so once it evenly distributes the coffee then I only need it give it a light tamp just to polish it off 😊
Correct me if I am wrong, it seems to me you are saying by measuring things and using tools to reduce human mistakes would lead to more consistent results. Who could have guessed? 😂
Crazy hey! 😆
How can the machine produce different yields in different times? Is it volumetric?
New method nice but try using a new mill Like the Eureka Mignon Libra it has a very precise scale of it´s own so no need for a scale under your mill or scraping out excess coffee with a teaspoon
What about the taste? Is there a difference? At the end of the day that’s a key factor
In the same spirit of realizing the usefulness of different accessories. I tested the “RANRAO Needle Dispenser/Mixer”. And I feel like it's not right. That it promotes channeling. That the needles are too big and poorly distributed. That the spring system is not a good idea. In short, it's rotten. So I'm going to test a manual needle dispenser with much finer needles. The goal is to prevent any lumps.
I wonder if the needle style distribution stirring tools really create more channels than they "solve"
Only if you use 0.4mm wide needles or above. Go for 0.3-0.35 for maximum distribution without creating channels. Also a very very light tap afterwards helps collapse any air pockets (y)
Thanks Adam 👏🏼
We didn’t include a WDT tool in this video as they aren’t practical in cafes yet. We are confident they help with extractions more than they hinder them.
@@ArtistiCoffeeRoasters Bang on
@@ArtistiCoffeeRoasters The spinning WDT tools like the Duomo Eight and its knockoffs are much more practical for a cafe setting while still resulting in more even distribution and higher extraction than wedge-style distribution tools.
Although you were close on the old school method you weren’t right on. I would arrive early and adjust my grind, time the dose and not to mention taste the shot I pulled. You also didn’t grind mindlessly, if that’s how you were taught then you were taught wrong. You had to fill up to the rim where the relief is on the inside, then you timed a dose and also you weighed it. The whole thing was based on the time the dose took to extract, but you did have a goal of the shot extraction in grams.
With all that said the new method is much better, and I understand that the old method when done right was very lengthy and still inconsistent. However, on the new method many believe that just by following this the shot will always taste right and I cannot disagree more. I have had some horrible shots pulled for me and I wish someone would provide proper training. Oh well! one day it will all just flow and balance out perfectly.
The process has come along way for sure. I made my first coffee 18 years ago and there was defiantly no consideration for weight anywhere 🤦🏼♂️
Thanks for the feedback and thanks for watching.
Forgive the noob question but how does the machine stop if you’re not stopping it on a certain and you’re not stopping it on a certain yield?
Some machines are built with automatic stops of sorts. The button press will cause the machine to dispense an exact volume/mass of water, so it stops itself. This is something that would involve a bit of programming after someone develops a recipe, so at one point someone did the work of manually changing the yield and water in.
The reason this still causes variability is that if there's a big difference in the amount of coffee in the portafilter, the evenness or the pressure of the tamp, the grounds will absorb/interact with more/less of that exact amount of water that the machine was programmed to dispense.
@@Sakura11101 Thanks!
What he said 😆 thanks Sean. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
@modern school: no dt-ing? and what about the taste? longer extraction time = over-extraction?
Hey, Just wanted to ask what grinder is that?
how are you measuring time here? Going off the videos, the shots are pulling in 10-15 seconds from the time you push the button to the shot completion, and then you'd call it 30+ seconds.
Shot time on the machine 🙄
The video was sped up during the shot pulls.
I'm just looking this up to get better coffee at home lol.
You’re in the right place 👌🏼
As much as I see your point about the consistency of tamping, I'm sad skill is declining so much. People have lost pride in making espresso
Portafilter Size does obviously matter. Would you agree that 51mm vs. 58mm tastes very much different?
Since when a longer extraction time is a proof of increased quality or flavor? Longer extraction time means also longer exposure of the coffee to the heat. And this at least must be adapted according to the type of bean and its roast? Sorry, didn‘t get it.
Yeah i dont get it. No tasting. No wdt which has even the most impact on your espresso. As others have shown. I guess we should just see his tattoos. ;) ☮️
Great vid. What determines the weight you place on your auto tamp?
We have our auto tamps set to 1 tamp and 14kg of pressure. It seems to be the best pressure on most auto tampers
@@ArtistiCoffeeRoasters wow. My cafe sets it at 26kg… maybe I should ask them to reduce it
@@ArtistiCoffeeRoasters cool. Thanks guys.
@Zygy __ oooo maybe. Im pretty sure the autopress we use can go to 30kg though…
For example Puqpress v5 is 20-60lbs or 9-27kg so 26kg is possible but at the high end.
Old school is channeling school. If they switched from that top smoothing distribution tool to a modern WDT method, the variables would tighten even more and probably go longer still.
how do we know yield without weighing what went in? was that 17 g, 18g, 19 g??? of ground coffee in?
You have to weigh in, our recipe is 22.5 in, but it depends on your group handle and basket size.
What’s your recipe? Shouldn’t it be around 28-32 secs. Apples with apples, should also weigh dose with old school shots so you can compare properly and not tap to spread grind before using distribution tool. Why were you tapping after tamping first time, isn’t that a no no. I do old school (without tapping the puck) and weigh every shot and get consistent shots every time. You gotta work at it but can get it done and probably do the process just as quick and in the same time with 20 g in 44-45 out (roasters yield ratio suggestion for the beans) in around 30 sec
100%
who startedd/invented the new distribution system
I assume that the same amount of hot water is being pumped by the machine?
that tamping machine is pretty cool, not gonna lie. but oldschool is still the way to go in a high sale enviroment
It's off-putting how he sounds like he's talking about rocked science when it's not. Agreed that consistency is needed.
I am missing the tasting…how does your ncd taste like?…>30 sec in opposite to your old school?
This video wasn’t about taste, too subjective. However, the new school method allows me to go courser to get my goal time, which helps to improve flavour by not always going finer.
Why do you tap the basket with the back of the tamper everytime after you tamp????? You have to repeat the test without hitting the portafilter after tamp. You guys did the video where you said this is the incorrect thing todo.
That’s the whole point. It’s a demonstration of old techniques, like tapping, verses new which we don’t tap. We’re no giving you the option, the modern techniques are much better 😆
@@ArtistiCoffeeRoasters Oh my bad than. sorry guys. I was getting crazy everytime I saw he doing that. I love your videos and recommend it to all my friends who are opening new shops. Greetings from Mexico...!
Still keep learning 🙏🙏
Awesome 👏🏼
Do you count 5s pre-infusion in this video?
Usually set for a 2 second on, 2 second off pre infusion.
So for home use, the current thinking is to ditch the OCD tool, as it harms more than it fixes, instead do WDT with needle size less than 0.4mm, tamp on an even bed, pull the shot.
There was a big study showing that conventional use of a distribution tool, like the OCD, presses the shape of the tool into the coffee, then it compacts the top layer with no change to the bottom layer, causing channeling.
Incorrect, actually other way around. WDT is bull, grind, level it then tamp. Take it from a barista.
@@drazenbabich Wrong.
@@firstlast-wm3li Go play somewhere with the rest of the kids. Learn to shut your gob when grown ups talk.
@@drazenbabich Same here. We tried pretty much all the methods flaunted on social media by the "influencers" etc. Went back to grind-OCD/level and tamp. Some girls in our team started to feel a bit of an OOS coming to their wrists so they use calibrated tamper, the rest of us good old tamper does the job and meets our prep reqs.
@@drazenbabich Pound sand.
Damn.. i used to be a barista 10 years ago. Cant believe my methods are considered “old school”. I had no idea methods have changed.
Yep, things sure have changed! :)
Stick with your old school, its by far a better way and a barista actually is a barista with skills….with all the ridiculous scales etc, might as well just get a fully automatic dispensing machine because no skills are required and it slows down the process in a real cafe situation.
Does artisti do online trainings?
Or yet, however it is on the drawing board
Isn't the time determined by the machine? It's programmed into it?
No, time varies by how long it takes to get a nominated amount of water through the head.
If the coffee is fine, it will still give me 45g, it will just take longer.
Course and my 45g will still come but much sooner.
Does that make sense?
The volume of water the machine dispenses is what is programmed in but the differing results in the cup can vary by the grind setting….A grind that is too coarse can result in a greater yield and a bitter taste and a grind that is too fine can result in a lessor yield and a burnt taste…..also the tamping pressure can change results.
With the old method I thought you tapped be before the first tamp...no?
So much bad tapping in the past. 😂 it was to tap, tap crazy 😜
I just curious, So Jimmy has been into coffee industry for 10 or 15 years. How come he still look like 24 years old man, maybe the magic of coffee makes Jimmy always looks younger 😄
Artisti coffee is the fountain of youth! 😂
You did not measure coffee amount for "old school" method but you did for machine tamping. That means there is another variable besides tamping. For the purpose of this kind of experiment, it is better to keep everything else constant and only change one thing so we can see the effect of that variable.
Maybe you can redo this with same amount of coffee each time, and also vary the machine strength if possible. 14kg for the high setting, 10kg for medium, and another for low, and then we also have old school tamp by hand. That way we can see the effect of that one variable more clearly.
Hi. I think part of the point here is that old school didn't weigh or tamp consistently and didn't measure grounds in or measure extraction. We only had taste and you can taste everyone's coffees.
So is using a WDT at home just a load of bull and I don't need to be doing that?
No, wdt is the single most thing that’s has proven to increase an espresso extraction for consistency, flavour, balance, tds and more. It’s the smallest and cheapest investment you can make to improve your espresso. Cheers luke
@@ArtistiCoffeeRoasters ah got it. I just didn't see you use it in your workflow so I thought it wasn't necessary. Thanks!
This was great but would've been amazing if we could also use TASTE TESTERS to choose old school vs new school
Yeah we didn’t because we weren’t really focusing on flavour, more about consistency between extractions and how much longer the extractions can run with good distribution.
The long shots wouldn’t have tasted better, it just means I could have gone courser, therefore allowing for a more balanced flavour. Then we could a tasting. Maybe next video.
Unless there's a blind taste test over a large enough period of time this might just be performative antics to sell more gear. Either way, looks cool
How much did that machine cost?
Espresso in Serbia is weak af they use only 7,5 g of coffe and yield is about 40g,I work as Barista in Serbia and owners of coffe shops are rutheles.
Well, this video is an ok demonstration but it does really say what’s different exactly and what contributes to the consistency. You wrote things down, but there were so many variables between the two that it’s difficult to see what you’re actually measuring. Maybe if you only added the scales, you would have gotten 80-90% of the consistency, and the rest was just the last few percentage gains.
why not do a puck tamp instead of buying a tamp machine? with a puck tamp if you have the same amount of grinds you can have the same tamp every time for 50-70$ total?