Stock Logic Pro 11 Plugins vs $25,000 of Analog Mastering Gear
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มิ.ย. 2024
- Analog vs. Digital Mastering: Can Logic Pro's Stock Plugins Compete with $25,000 Analog Gear?
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The BEST Logic Pro 11 Feature No One is Talking About:
• The BEST Logic Pro 11 ...
In this video, I put Logic Pro's stock plugins head-to-head with $25,000 worth of my analog mastering equipment to see if you really need to spend big to get professional results.
I used two high-end pieces of analog gear-a Manley SLAM! Mastering Edition Compressor and an EAR 825Q EQ-against three of Logic Pro's stock plugins: the new "ChromaGlow" saturation plugin from Logic Pro 11, the stock compressor in Vintage Opto mode, and Logic's Match EQ.
Here's a breakdown of the process:
1) Dialing in the Analog Gear: I meticulously adjusted the analog compressor and EQ to get the desired sound.
2) Matching the Compressor: Using a test oscillator, I ensured the gain reduction in both the hardware and software matched perfectly.
3) Tonal Balance with Match EQ: I used Logic’s Match EQ to replicate the tonal balance of the analog master for the digital version.
4) Level Matched Blind A/B Test: To eliminate bias, I conducted a blind A/B test comparing the analog and digital masters. The results were surprising!
5) A Twist in the Comparison: I conducted another blind A/B test with a subtle change (revealed in the video) that shifted the perception of the masters.
The final verdict? The difference between analog and digital is not worth $25,000, and sometimes, a simple adjustment can make a bigger impact than expensive gear.
Watch the video to see the results for yourself and learn why investing in knowledge and practice can be more valuable than splurging on high-end equipment.
Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more mastering tips and audio gear reviews!
#MasteringEngineer #AudioMastering #LogicPro #AnalogVsDigital #MixingAndMastering #AudioProduction #HomeStudio #MusicProduction #AudioEngineering #LogicProTips #MusicTech
So both mixes sound great and are hard to tell apart! But here's my thing, you made them both with hardware imo. You made one on hardware, then you matched the plugins to the hardware. Of course they sound close.
What I would like to see, is a song mastered with hardware, in real time. Then, same song; different session of course for fresh ears; mastered with plugins in real time.
If you can get the same results with $200 worth of plugins, but it takes you an hour..while it takes it minutes with hardware...the hardware is the better.
?????
1 has a really radiophonic glue sound, 2 one has a lil bit more weight in the low-mids but it sounds "empty" in close comparison with 1. If I closed my eyes and stopped making a colossal effort to pay attention to details, I would never notice these were two different mixes.
My takeaway: Subtle EQ moves go a long way if they are the right EQ moves.
^^^ THIS
That’s exactly why I’ve decided to leave analog and gear purchasing behind. I’ve decided to Master my skills with plug-ins and editing overall.
I picked Analog on the blind test too lol it would have been nice to see a null test
The thing that sold me on analog with the blind test was the sibilants at the beginning of the song where the vocal is more prominent. On the digital version, they seemed a bit harsh almost like it added saturation to the frequencies I didn’t want to hear. Once the full track came in, it was a lot harder to notice a difference.
Digital sounded digital. Hacked.
Excellent video!!! It was fun and different from other mastering videos! Thank you!
Great stuff man!
That 1 db made a big difference in the end. I agree with you 100%.
This is one of the best videos I’ve seen for a while. Honest and openly put together. New subscriber.
Thank you so much!
I got it right. I also preferred 1. The analog was more open on the top end. In the second test, I preferred 2, but I could tell it was just a level bump. The test clearly illustrates how plug-in makers can fool us all and how they can 'cheat' by simply adding .5 to 1 dB increases in their plug-ins. Level matching is crucial!
Super cool video!! I do want to say though I would have loved a null test between the two that would be extremely interesting to me 😊
Will,
what a brave test. Thanks for your amazing and honest test
great video! thanks
Was watching on my iPhone and I could differentiate both mixes very easily. 1 was clearer and brighter than 2 and to me it also sounded nicer. I guess a little more EQ on the digital would make it harder to distinguish.
Thank you very much for this video. I also have a preference for the first one (without being able to explain it, just that I found it better defined) and I felt the difference in volume but I was still bluffed by the conclusion. I learned a lot today.
I chose the Digital version both times. I do mastering and I couldn't tell the difference like most people. Even with a trained ear it's very little difference on both tracks. I could hear the sound difference in the second test from the volume. Sneaky sneaky...great video man!
Really good video..Was easy to pick because the songs were still labelled Analog and Digital....I did like the Analog but the Digital was so close..
Yes,Both are near close however if we can achive the nearby results by using the stock plugins in Logic pro instead of super costly analog gear....it is worth to use stock plugin with very very economical way.
Cool video Will. Those are so close to each other. I felt like one had more low and low mid density (barely) but I could not say which version was which. Lets hear just a null track played back to hear the audible differences only.
SUPER close, right?
I like you a lot, Will! I just found your channel and I'm really impressed with you. Subbed, and I also hit the bell so I'll get every video notification as well!
Thank you so much!
Great video, like your brutal honesty!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I picked top: The telltale sign is to listen to the vocal and snare Because I've only mixed through digital plugins referencing tons of commercial mixes, I found digital plugins and itb mixing (no matter how well emulated) has a 2d "wyhiwyg" flatter sound. The key being that it felt as if the left and right side "engulfs" the center. Don't get me wrong, this was very close, and I'm glad that we've come very close over the years. But the analog has a way of extending past the speakers. It's as if what's in the center became more of the center, and there's a sense that everything belongs.
Without the reference though, the digital sounds amazing. Really is a testament that great production, great recording, and great mixing is how a great mastering engineer like yourself is able to provide that last boost it needs regardless of the tools used. The best analog vs digital comparison I've seen!
I picked #1 for analog.
What I listened to very closely is the high frequency tambourine and the trailing reverb space behind it.
Wow! Mind blowing. I got the first one wrong but the second one correct. I would say the most important tool is the ears of the engineer. No more gear hunting for me.
Thanks for this video
Wow this was very fun. I love blind AB tests. Those were _very_ close indeed. I picked the analog (1) in the first one and then the digital (2) in the second one. It’s very true the difference 1db makes. And the point you made about using analog gear vs digital is spot on too. Also, very catchy and cool song. Already stuck in my head! Cool video as always Will. Looking forward to more 👍
Thank you so much for watching! Glad you enjoyed :)
Wow. Your content is amazing. Just happened across it last night and am having a positive sleep deprivation experience for once in a long time. Totally worth it.
Please tell me TH-cam does something to the sound that takes away the ability to hear that one thing I've always convinced myself was there and could easily pick out analog vs digital in the past. Granted it's been years since I've focused any time to listening and have made some changes I've never been convinced were positive.That along with dealing with some tinnitus in my right ear from an ear infection or it's treatment.
Would love to see your teaching style on how to set up levels,unity gain, gain staging as it relates to mastering. Most everything out there talks about the same stuff which is easy enough to understand. I'm so lost with it where it matters that I can't even describe what it is I'm looking for ..lol
Thanks so much for keeping at it with content for so long. We could have lost a real jewel.
this video was great
super unique and interesting approach to a video thats been done a million times
The real question is not which mix sounds better.
Does it sound 25k better?
Good informative vid Will, I got it right with Analog been number 1
Thanks for the earworm, Will. I'll be singing "Red Silverado" for days now...:) Great video and comparison. I'm a blind audio-engineer, so every a/b-test is a blind test for me, and yup, stock plugins can get you really far these days.
Great video. I was listening on my phone in portrait and could tell! Number 1 more open, less fatiguing. Analog wins to my ears every time. Though enough to warrant the time and $ cost??
An interesting test would be to re run this with Acustica plugins (specifically the Coffee EQ and Tan 2 Compressor (both free). That's the closest I've got to an analog sounding chain so far.
This experiment was very insightful.
Excellent video and very well explained throughout. To my ears, the digital version also seemed that bit wider too. For what it costs, Logic is absolutely stunning value for money and the inclusion of that Match EQ is genius!
This is one of the first times that I lost a blind test. I did prefer the digital version because of how it managed the top and low end. The hardware was okay, but too much of this sizzle on the top of the frequency spectrum threw me off. Although I did guess wrong, I think this is only because I expected to like the analog version better, but in this application, I didn't.
On the other hand, if you were to shootout analog hardware with their exact plugin version, I would most likely prefer the analog version. Regardless, I enjoyed this! Thank you for sharing!
Great video, thank you :)
I picked the top one Analog. I could hear a slight upward shift in the eq from listening to the snare.
The internet needs more videos like this, but could be better if you could show the eq diffs as it played live
On the first test, I preferred #1 by a long shot. The compression and EQ were essentially matched, so of course that's going to sound close. What I was listening for was dimension - and to me, that's where analog wins every time. And by the way, I'm one to always be routing for the plugins too! Is the analog equipment worth $25,000 more? Well, I'd say if you're mixing and mastering your own stuff at home and you're not making any substantial amount of money from your music yet, then absolutely not. However, if you make a substantial amount of money from your music or from client work, and you have enough disposable income or savings, then yes, it's absolutely worth it. On the second test, I preferred #2 by a long shot. But then we found out it was louder, so of course we're going to prefer it. They need to be properly level matched as they were in test #1 to hear the differences. This is why level matching on these audio comparisons is so important. That Manley Slam man! Whew! Thanks for showing me how that sounds! That's going on the wishlist right now. The EAR 825Q has ALWAYS been on my wishlist! I can't believe you have one! However, I'm LOVING the new IGS AUDIO 825EQ!
Ooh you got the IGS? very cool. Yeah dude the slam is crazy good. But still - and the point of the video - making something a db louder or quieter is a much bigger difference than the difference between analog and digital when level matched.
@12:30 Nr2 Sound gooood ...possibly 2 is louder and certainly brighter ....It does take some time for the sound to be optimal when switching... bbbbbbut don't forget that it's about the knowledge and training
you have earned +1 new subscriber!
Another thought, would someone make the same EQ decisions to get to the same result by NOT copying the analog EQ… I guess this is where the practice would come in.
Thanks for doing this comparison!
The thing that I’ve noticed influenced me the most with plug-ins is saturation which I think is the effect that sugar coat the most 😊
I hear the same thing when mastering my stuff with plugins vs my hardware, the analog has this cohesion, excitement and wideness that is missing with plugins, for me It's worth paying thousands for the hardware imo. That SLAM kicks some serious butt!!
OMG I shouldn't have watched this I was already passed this in my audio journey!!! you almost set me back a year if not for the last test with gain change
THANK YOU FOR THAT (really)
imo - ANALOG ALL DAY . I feel like all professional recordings should be ran through some sort of analog processing from instruments going into box and most importantly the mix buss/ summing processes.
analog truly adds something to the final product that solely digiTAL CANNOT . analog adds weight while still giving the highs a clear and clean energy. even with half db loss the analog still felt perceptually louder
Got it right on AirPods from the first bar. Much more natural space in the analog chain. The vocal sits more effortlessly. But digital did good.
The true guy with true inspiration ❤
Picked out the analog one after 2 switches because i could hear that left and right had some differences where as de digital one didn't have that. Maybe try and match that better next time! Still the digital version sounds absolutely fine as well
Hi,
Before the end of the video and your conclusion, my thoughts were already to say "When you know your gear and your things, you can make some magic"
My choice was the same than you.
👍🏼👍🏼
Good one! Agree, for mastering, no analogue gear is needed anymore. The difference though will be in the tracking process. Here analogue still shines.
Sometimes, when a song still needs a lot of help to get over the finish line, analog mastering can get us there faster than digital. But yeah I 100% agree that a great analog front end in the tracking is paramount.
1 TO ME was warmer and I like where the snare sat. Definitely not a $25K difference.
Havent looked at the results yet. I’m at 13:16 on the video and i prefer track 1. Track 2 sounds fine, but a little narrower as far as imaging is concerned and the vocal feels more on top. I could see the chain on track 2 being good when you want up front vocals and less stereo width. Going to continue on to see which is which. Both sound good though. Thanks for doing this.
those highs and lows on the analog chain sound 'boundless' somehow- theres a certain narrowness to digital chain in comparison. both sound good. great vid
Thanks for having all the spendy gear, know how, and time to do this awesome compare. I love it!! Glad I already own Logic 11 and don't have to run out and spend a bunch more money. I can now justify buying an occasional morning latte'.
can’t believe I got right which one was actually digital but disappointed that the 1 decibel gave me the feeling of more closed over the the louder one
Unbelievable setup you have. WOW.
Hey thanks!
It makes sense who works with what. I use HW and plugins together, like a hybrid, I like it that way. And then there is a lack of a master from someone else, which would show a different sound, character of the master. Use whatever you like.
Thanks for that comparison 👍🏻 new Sub Here!
I honestly thought the bottom was the analog only because it sounded like the lows were a hair more defined and wider. I am talking in the slightest way so to my liking I preferred the digital mix. It felt like the analog was choked up tight slightly narrow. It was really close and yet again no one would ever notice so do we need to go crazy with analog gear is the question. Well yes because we are crazy lol. We need to preserve analog for many reasons. Can we get away with plugins. Yes. Remember these instruments had to be recorded in some form of analog on the way in. How do you get great sounding plugins. By modeling hardware so yes we will always need both.
This has been super fun to watch and interesting too ! Thanks for doing this.
I noticed something that (maybe ?) can make a difference. You went first on the analog to get the sound done, then into logic to match, so you really went into the closest sound match, which is totally fair for this type of sound comparison.
Would be interesting if you go first within Logic, do the master the way you would do only with plugins, then go into the analog chain and redo the master. I think this is where the real difference would go. I tend to believe analog gives us some mood/feelings to the sound that plugin won't, if that makes sense. Comparing workflow and feelings more than sound and see where it leads you.
100% true!
Very interesting, thank you! For what we can juge from YT, for me it's not a constant difference as if the 2 compressor dont react the same in different section of the song... sometime the no2 sound bit «muddy» sometime more clear than no 1... anyway, I agree not night and day! Way more difference just by the decision of the engineer !
You got a new subscriber. Great video 👍🏽 I did my entire EP Top to bottom in Logic. Purple Sky EP by Bay boy music.
Spotted analog vs digital correctly, but actually preferred digital. The analog compression was a bit more jumpy and the bass was a but tubby for my tastes. Awesome test! Really shows that the tools are no longer an excuse. If you preferred the sound of the analog, seems you could tweak the logic plugs to get you the desire result. They both sounded great.
Great insight
Listened on iPhone, the analogue had better transients and sang more in the chorus. For me it wasn't really that close, the digital closed up even listening over a crappy speaker
You gotta remember tho, we're listening with audio engineering ears. 99.99% of end listeners (fans), aren't gonna hear/notice that all...let alone care. If it sounds decent and the song is good, that ALL that matters.
Great!! Go practice!!
What an incredible video! Believe it or not preferred the digital. Logic Pro rules 👍
You clearly hear the difference its more warmer, there is more crisps in order to have that with digital u have to be tricky :D
Thank you very much for the demo 💪 Could you specify which AD and DA converters were used please?
Apogee Symphony MkII 16x16 SE
Which is another $6k but I didn’t count that in the total.
Absolutely PHENOMENAL converters.
@@WillBorzado you like those converters more than the Lynx Hilo’s?
I'm more impressed with being able to hear the difference without headphones. I like digital better.
That was interesting and you gave a very honest answer. There is another mastering engineers videos I've watched that insists everything analog is so much better. But really is down to the skills of the individual, and if you find working with the analog gear is more enjoyable and productive that’s great. But for someone just starting out I guess it would be more of a difficult decision to invest that amount of money nowadays.
I expected I’d like the digital master better because that’s what I’ve been working with for a long time, and I didn’t disappoint myself. I will do some more comparisons on different playback systems, though. This first comparison was just through small speakers.
pretty sure I got it correct, but I got distracted and forgot just before the reveal lol. sounds like the eq on two is more forward in the high mids, just a bit different. I dont think it matters much tbh. The one db makes sense.
I have no allegiance to analog or digital, I use whatever works for me. With that said, I don't have my headphones or speakers on me at the moment but I still watched this on my Macbook Pro and wanted to call out what I heard from this medium lol. I noticed 2 was a tad brighter. Again on laptop speakers that's mainly what I'm going to hear. When you did the second blind test I still preferred 1 Analog and clearly noticed the difference in DB. What I liked about the analog one that I noticed when it was a DB lower were the transients seemed a little softer. 2's transients were a little more abrasive. With no bias I recognize that this is just a preference and changes you could easily make to dial into taste. As this song is a pretty chill song I preferred the less bright and softer hitting version.
I was not expecting to get it right I just liked more 1. Do you really need analog? There is conveniente with analog because of the interface.
How much hardware used on the mix production is a valid question? Cool video. I really notice hardware vs software on distorted sources, ie rock guitars etc. plugins just sound terrible on rock guitars imo.
Hey Will, maybe try a part 2 where instead of EQ matching the track, you use a plugin that measures your analog EQ's curves, then try and match those curves on the digital EQ.
Try Waves Q-Clone to capture your analog eq curves, and then use Plugin Doctor to capture the plugin EQ curves. Otherwise, there's no telling what plugin moves are required to get that sound (we'd already have to have a finished analog track to match it against).
I realize that we can see the EQ curve of the match, so we can see what type of moves are required I guess. The test would be for two reasons: To eliminate other variables that could alter the test results, and to more easily compare what type of workflow modifications would be made if we were using a plugin EQ to arrive at those decisions, vs matching audio and having the computer build a curve for us.
At one point you can see me pull up Pro-Q3 to confirm that the eq match and the analog eq are flat 20-20k 👍
omg, i feel like a noob .. was totally wrong and even preferred the digital one.. tho the ear is one of my all time fav eqs and its quit the same as digital, superclean.
in my ears the only difference seems to be the boxtone of the slam.
thanks for the eye opener
Bertrom curve analyzer is the easiest way to match analog curves, and its free
To my ear, on iPhone earphones, the digital mix had more weight
What about higher end headphones? I see so many more high end phones these days (bose, Sony, Apple, Sennheiser)
Super close (to me), but I also liked the Analog better. There was a crispness that I really liked.
they both sounded pretty close, I picked the Digital in the blindtest lol🥴
Same here, I prefered the digital one. To me it had the "analog sound" lol.
@@bakerlefdaoui6801same hehe!
Yes. Seemed beefier down low. 1 sounded sparkly up top. Maybe it's the slightest bit of extra width giving less upfront feel.
It was close but I chose analog both times, I was listening to sound stage, 3Dness. Analog also had deeper lows, and instruments had space and place in the mix, this is what you pay for. The digital version although had a slight bump around low mids, instruments sounded flatter and less 3D, which brought the strummed guitar to the front, so it sounded a bit louder.
I picked analog, but honestly I was basically guessing.
I noticed what was going on and had thought it was just a loudness change. I'm glad you did that. I even chose digital thinking it was warmer. The thing is, as mentioned by others, the song is likely tracked analog. Plugins are getting oh so close. But can you clip a hardware synth digitally like you can with the AD+ in analog?
I picked the 1st one but barely. The compression sounded smoother to my ears. But damn they were close
Yeah I didn't really pay attention to the video just 1 vs 2 section and I would say 2 has more "awe" entrainment in it. I liked 2. There is way more going on in 2. 1 is pretty flat and just sort of there 2 has a lot of lure in it. Not sure if all that was an extra 1db that I was sensing but definately felt the difference.
I’ve listened on phone speakers and cheap headphones for the first and second test respectively. Both times the transient on the snare, and the 10k upwards stuck out on the digital. Nothing unpleasant at all on either coming from someone working digitally with an aversion to ‘analogue warmth’ plugins.
I picked digital - digital was wider to me and I suspect one of the processors is working dual mono (chroma?) causing subtle phase differences - I would expect the analog to be wider as they're essentially dual mono all the time but the difference in the digital version was apparently larger. Anyways, its clearly splitting hairs at this stage
Very interesting. @Gabiel_facedown a few comments away from you said “analog sounded wider, it was very obvious”. I would venture to guess that chromaglow is indeed dual mono. I don’t know about match eq, but compressor is almost certainly stereo. Thanks for watching!
@@WillBorza Its more pronounced on my speakers, not so much on my headphones. IF I'm not looking at the screen I certainly dont hear the difference. The change between 1-2 seems to make you look for subtle differences. So props to logic. I'm completely in the box for mixing and this is another example that what we do is perfectly valid.
On "my" headphones #1 sound alittle more present and tighter. #2 sounds good to but a little loose and slightly scooped out in the mids.
Oh, sorry. #1 from what Im hearing would be my pick.. and #2 on shuffle
So after hearing your picks, I agree. But better a +1db is "better". It surely is noticeable. Cool stuff!!
Sorry, one more thing. 1 db is not equal across the frequency spectrum. So you'll hear it differently as mids / high mids may stand out more.
#2 sounded more open and sounded better to me
we need one that shows bitwig vs this !
I prefer no. 2. To me vocals sounding a bit more prominent, cleaner, more real and the bassdrum got a small amout more punch. Sound is a little larger overall I would say. But the difference is quite small. I do in-the-box mastering only for a long time. :P
They actually sound similar. Very little difference. Probably because of the engineer’s abilities
The high frequency bleed in this Prius made me shun the digital version. That’s how I guessed digital. It was literally striking me ears 😅
I only have 1 question, at what sample rate you made this test? Looking forward for your reply.
44.1
@@WillBorza I don’t want to sound rude at all, but your comparison at this sample rates are just pointless.This is deceiving and totally unprofessional, this makes me go to my second question, how long you been sound engineer ? And did you take a course in any professional school to become a mastering engineer?
@@MastiksoulTV you’re worse than the fire nation
@@TwiztOndaBeat Me??? Why is that?
lol, the relief of the analog unmasking! Look even 5% better is better, so... yay analog!
Like the song ;-)
Yeah the Snare on 1 and being more open...is the dead give away
I was hoping you would do a phase flip so we could hear the delta