Barbershop Theory #4 - How Not To Sing Flat
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ธ.ค. 2022
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Barbershop Theory is back and in this 4th installment, we will take a look at how we as singers and barbershoppers can avoid singing flat or dropping in pitch.
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you're making content for a very specific group of people and i'm so glad i, one of those people, found this 💖 also i'd say version 3 was my favorite, and it kind of just makes the most sense why, it also reminds me the most of Tim Waurick's recent multitrack barbershop videos, they're definitely not tuned to equal temperament but i always wondered how he decides to tune the chords, especially when it comes to which voice part to record first
Thank you so much Tyler❤️ Yeah, I think you’re right about that! His stuff always sounds in tune in a very natural way, so I’m also thinking version 3.
That you so much for your comment!
As a seasoned singer who is a total noob to barbershop and music theory, thank you so much! This is so helpful in understanding what the hell the nerds in the room are talking about.
So happy to hear that!! I highly encourage you to watch the other 3 barbershop Theory videos then!
Thanks for going to this level of detail. I look forward to your next video.
You’re welcome!!
Excellent! Some of this knowledge could have come in handy when singing with Special Feature. We sang chords mostly very well in tune, and kept the key center fairly well, but occasionally we would run into spots where everything sounded right, but we would still end up sharp! Our lead, Jamie, had the most incredible ear for what was super in tune and was really good at making those micro adjustments to tune the chords without having the melody sound out of tune.
It’s really crazy to visualize What goes on under the hood when ringing chords in a quartet!
It would seem to me that tonal drift wouldn't always be necessary if you go with option 1. You'd just need Lead to go back on the grid after they come out of the seventh.
Honestly, while I agree that Lead sounded out of tune in the initial example, I actually thought it sounded just fine at around 3:22. Yeah, it's flat, but it's also a blue note, and that sounds fine to me. As long as Lead could get back on grid after that, I think it would sound good.
I honestly don't know why they sound so different to me. But I do know that most wind instruments go back on grid after changing their tuning for just intonation. It's much harder for them to drift due to how the instruments are made.
You’re absolutely right. You could use option one, but it’s risky unless you know what you’re doing. I see this option a lot in new quartets or inexperienced singers, where the flattened notes is not a conscious decision, but maybe a lack of Vocal technique or blindly flattening notes because they’re uncertain of which notes to flatten.
It is, however, always a matter of taste! I personally don’t like it when the melody sounds flat, so option three or two are my go to’s :)
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts!
This was so interesting! Thanks for sharing!! BTW I love Sonny Boy!
Thank you so much, Gloria! Glad you found it interesting! And yeah, Sonny Boy is a classic!
Love this vid! My quartet (Sound Hypothesis) practice this kind of stuff regularly - I'd say we prefer a version 3 sound for long held chords, and then more of a version 1 for quick passing notes. In my opinion 2 sound odd most of the time - 31 cents is a very long way! I'm also pretty convinced a large chunk of 7s aren't tuned that flat.
You can go even further with this of course - major and minor 3rds and 6th are certainly worth considering in the same way you consider the 7th in this vid.
Fun stuff starts to happen when you have e.g. a major third constructed between with a b7 and a perfect 9th that turns into a major 3rd between a Tonic and 3rd - but on the same notes!
For example - C9 voiced with Bb-D on top turning into a Bb chord.
It goes from a 435 cent interval to 386 cent interval.
In some cases you might want to prioritise one part staying fixed - perhaps your lead is on the Bb.
What this means is your tenor part could end up microtuning up 48 cents - half a semitone - while still "on paper" singing the same note.
Mad!
Edit: did the maths wrong - 435 not 235
Whaaaaat, that’s your quartet?! Awesome!! Yeah, version 2 can sound pretty off sometimes, but I like the idea behind it. Using version 1 for shorter chords for sure will get you to where you wanna be much faster, and the tonal drift might not be noticeable. To me I often encounter the issue when doing a swipe on the same 7th chord - especially when going from 1-3-5-b7 to -5-3-b7-1 - so the two versions of the same 7th chords doesn’t sound the same.
Haha, yeah you can really encounter some sick moments where one of more parts have to more a substantial amount to lock into place. Certain harmonic progressions just do that!
That's interesting, as I definitely thought option 2 sounded better here. I don't really notice the horizontal intervals in the other parts, as they're just so much quieter than Lead.
This is awesome, I love how beautifully complex barbershop can be :D
Thanks Daniel!! Exactly! That's the beauty of it! :D So glad you like it! Feel free to share these theory videos with friends!
@@BarbershopTagAlongI'm assigning this whole series as homework for my chorus haha :D
@@kleopatra540 AWESOME! :D You gotta let me know how is goes ;)
Loved it.
Thanks! Glad you liked it!
As usual, great video! I was really surprised not to find my philosophy on this- that the roots of every chord should be equal tempered (full dim chords should return everyone to equal temperament). To me, it's the responsibility of the person singing the root to nail it.
The reason (to me) that your Sonny Boy doesn't work is that the balance is off; a good "Chinese" 7th should have the one and seven about equal presence/volume, and often has the lead sailing over the tenor.
Thanks Jakob! Ah, yeah I missed that philosophy. And you’re absolutely right about balance!
Great! Thanks. Theory learnt. Cannot wait for the BT5 :-)
You're welcome, Jan!! Glad to hear you found it useful :)
The F in the G7, the harmonic 7th, I am starting to think more and more is inherently a dissonance. Yes, it rings, but is dissonant with the tonal center, and with it's intonation, it is leaving the key. In Pythagorean tuning this sound can be achieved by making the second F, what I think it really is in truth, a Gbb. The double cross relation between G and Gbb is that ringy barbershop 7th sound that people seek after, but it is a dissonance. Obviously Gbb and G are a double chroma away from each other a distant and exotic interval. The Gbb in Pythagorean tuning comes out less than 4 cents sharp of the 7th harmonic of G.
We always see the overtone series above C go like this C, C, G, C, E, G, Bb, C...
But in truth these letter names given are not accurate. The C's and G's are right, they are Pythagorean in their tuning. Our standard notation is made from and displays Pythagorean tuning, Not really any other tuning in it's entirety.
The E and Bb in the overtone series of C, are actually Fb and Cbb respectively. Or at least A LOT closer to those than E and Bb. The 5th partial is less than 2 cents sharp of the Pythagorean Fb, and the 7th partial is less than four cents flat of the Pythagorean Cbb.
This is why I say that the barbershop 7ths and the ringing chords are actually dissonances. Ones that may excite the listeners, but dissonances nonetheless. An Fb is a diminished 4th above the bass C. And Cbb is a doubly diminished octave above the C.
In music Fb serves a diatonic/chromatic function in relation to C that is distinct from E, as does Cbb from Bb. And the naming of the 5th and 7th partials are much much closer in the Fb and Cbb than the huge deviations they are from E and Bb.
This pitch drift can be manufactured in Pythagorean using bitonality, and it sounds near indistinguishable from what is heard in barbershop. You would need quite a sharp ear to hear a difference especially in the context of the music. Like using an F note in an Fx major chord. The F natural will sound indistinguishable from the 7th harmonic of Fx. Later through voice leading the 2 keys can reunite in C major ideally, or wherever the piece is going. But I think at a fundamental level, musically speaking that barbershop 7th is a double cross relation and not a dominant 7th chord, though it is written down on the page as if it is a dominant 7th. If it is sung and tuned as a dominant 7th it sounds different to a barbershop 7th chord, still good and still works and is beautiful in the piece, but without that specific 7th harmonic buzz. That 7th harmonic buzz is the result of a voice or two leaving the key.
That is why I say that the 5th harmonic and the 7th harmonic are in the overtone series for timbral distinction of individual pitches and not for tuning fundamental notes to. The fundamental notes of scales and chords should be based off of a chain of pure harmonic 3/2 fifths. The 2nd and 3rd harmonic. After going back and forth on which I like better, I must say after being a fan of barbershop for 10 years, I do prefer the actual dominant 7th chord over the barbershop 7th chord tuned in Pythagorean tuning.
If that crunch of the barbershop seventh is needed for a specific effect, the double cross relation and the diminished fourth are always available. But in my experience, I think a normal major third coupled with the double cross relation for the barbershop 7th works better but both options are technically available. So C E G Cbb as opposed to C Fb G Cbb. But which to use probably often is a matter of where each voice is coming from and going to.
I understand this is extremely out there of a notion, especially in barbershop. But just sharing my experience with what I believe is actually happening there and how our hears hear the thing,
Holy crap these are just barbershoppers and not vocal scientists
But you’d be surprised by how many barbershoppers actually do all the stuff I talk about without knowing WHY they do it. So to become a better barbershopper, in my opinion, it’s important to understand the reasoning behind the things we do to make our music sound as good as it does, in order to be able to replicate it on demand.
Hope you still enjoyed the video :)
Thanks for exploring this topic, your videos are beautifully put together also!
Another approach to Just Intonation for barbershop is to have the root note stay true to Equal Temperament (no matter which voice is singing it) and everyone else adjust around the root note. I explored this a bit in this video: th-cam.com/video/UDsIM5Nr_Wg/w-d-xo.html
Really cool video! While that approach will keep the quartet in key, it can however lead to the melody becoming flat. I think there’s really no “perfect” approach and the best way to fo about it is probably a mixture of all the different approaches.
@@BarbershopTagAlong yes, and what happens "in the wild" is usually an approximation of several different theories and tuning strategies... We're all striving to be better at barbershop harmony by whatever means we can.
Hi, I don't get what lead is in that case - is it the highest voice or voice with melody?
Hi! The lead is the voice with the melody. Sometimes in barbershop the melody will pass to another part, but most of the time the lead sings melody.
I wonder how this affects people with absolute pitch...
Interesting thought! But what if they then could combine their ability to hear pitch with the knowledge of perfectly tuned intervals. So that one could actually hear a low pitched 3rd by Ear. Just a wild thought.
People with absolute pitch have a much easier time not drifting off of a key center. Even when using method 1, I find that they usually just return to A=440Hz if they hear themselves drifting too far off
@@BarbershopTagAlong😊