Barbershop Theory #2 How To Ring A Chord
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2022
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Welcome to part two of the new series about music theory for singers: "Barbershop Theory"!
In this episode we will talk about "the ring" and some of the theory behind ringing chords. "Just Intonation", "Overtone Series", "Microtuning" - If these terms sound interesting to you, then this video is for you!
Perfectly tuning chords is not a new thing, and barbershoppers didn't invent them BUT we, probably more than any other type of vocal genre/style, rely heavily on the theory discussed in this video!
#barbershop theory #barbershop #barbershopharmony #musictheory
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Another important thing to think about is that if the tenor or lead hold a note while the other parts change, the other parts would have to adjust to the held note instead of the bass, meaning the bass would have to go sharp instead of the higher voices going flat.
Spot on!! I’m planning a video on that for later!
I find this to be the hardest aspect of barbershop music to explain, and like you said it's not possible to cover all of it in 5 minutes. That being said, this is a very good summary and a great starting point for anyone who wants to find out more about it. I'll definitely recommend it to anyone who is curious about ringing chords and just intonation, thank you!
Yeah, to leave behind the understanding of equal tempered intervals In favour of justly intonated ones is tricky!! It’s such an obscure concept to explain, so if this Can somehow help speed up the process of understanding how barbershoppers think and hear harmony, then I’m happy!
This is the reason I like barbershop. The requirement of a good ear to tune chords just right is why I love it so much!
Me too! I love the nerdy aspect of our hobby!
I was looking for it. Thanks for the upload Sir.
You’re very welcome! Hope it lived up to your expectations!
Absolutely love the intention you’re putting on for growing this community 🙃
Thanks man!! Glad to hear it!
Thank you Thank you Thank you !!! I've waited so long for someone to make this video properly and you knocked it out of the park.
Thank you SO much for saying that! So happy to hear that you found it useful! Feel free to share the video with all your harmony/theory-loving friends :D
@@BarbershopTagAlong I am certain your videos will gain traction because they're supplying information that is not obtainable in this quality anywhere else, so keep up the fantastic work!
@@cachelesssociety5187 So happy to hear you say that! I hope you're right! And I will for sure keep the videos coming!
This is amazing. Well done, thank you!
So glad to hear that! Thanks!!
now Imma sub from the first moment(:
That tag hits home.
also congratulations on 700 subscribers!
Thanks!! Closing In on a 1000! I like where this is going!
Maybe I've played piano for too long, but that just-intonation minor seventh sounds soooo flat.
You’ll get used to it 😉
In Bluegrass, most of the band will keep to the root and fifth so the singer or lead instrument can flatten the third.
Really? That’s cool! Is this something that is “taught” in Bluegrass, you know like the Theory stuff in barbershop?
While you won't get the same type of "ring" or buzz with 7 limit ji as discussed in this video, in Pythagorean intonation, you will get consistent and perfect intonation, without drift, and with clear glowing chords. On my channel there are a few examples and one is a barbershop intonation comparison video.
That sounds interesting - I will check your videos! Just curious, how is Pythagorean more ringy? Seeing how JT is based on the overtone series and thereby “pure” intervals given from nature, I’m interested in how pythagorean differs? I don’t know much about P-tuning, so please educate me.
Thank you so much for this comment - Loving it!
@@BarbershopTagAlong Pythagorean tuning is not more ringy per se as 7 limit usually is. But the tuning is nonetheless better as there is no compromise of melodic intervals needed, and the chords while not "ringy" have a clean and clear glow to them. The major third is truly the 81/64 as a ratio, not the 5/4. Above the note C, E is the 81st partial.
All pitch classes in an "extended beyond 12 notes per octave" Pythagorean tuning are over tones or undertones of the fundamental, all pitch classes are the powers of 3 over the powers of 2 for overtonal notes, and powers of 2 over the powers of 3 for undertonal notes. All pitches are derived from a chain of pure fifths at a 3/2 ratio, the 3rd partial in the overtone series.
Even though the 81st partial is not audible to us, because is is essential 3^4th power, and the brain fundamentally counts rhythm in 2's and 3's and pitch is just sped up rhythm, the brain understands the more complex ratio of 81/64 especially in the context of real music. And melodically this makes the whole tones consistent in Pythagorean. C to D to E each moves by a 9/8 whole tone.
I just posted a new video for last night was the end of the world tag. That video just has it in Pythagorean tuning. If you sing with it and match the intonation with your voice, you can hear how clear and clear all the melodies are and yet all sound harmonious together.
As I said in the description for that video for last night was the end of the world, I tried to plot a course in 7 limit tuning to do a side by side comparison, but no matter what you do, if you stick to whole number ratios in 7 limit, the pitch drifts down because of the harmonic seventh chords and 5 limit ji melodic intervals. Some place there needs to be a weird melodic leap to keep from drifting. As you said in one of your vids, in that case the Lead normally sings equal tempered to avoid the drift, but in Pythagorean there is no unintentional drifting, because there are no commas in the diatonic scale as there is in the 5 and 7 limit iterations.
I recently shared this info on a barbershop page on Facebook and was nearly burned at the stake for saying such things, but nevertheless, I would really encourage you and others to explore the tuning, in all music but even in barbershop considering the style is already "tuning minded".
Melodically and harmonically, listening both horizontally and vertically at the same time, you can hear only in Pythagorean tuning are BOTH the melodies and harmonies always in tune. In the 5 and 7 limit ji's melodic lines are made to be out of tune when listening in both dimensions at once. Because of the captivating buzz of 5 and 7 limit, people have stopped listening horizontally to melodic intonation alongside with vertical harmonic intonation.
If your ear has been used to 7 limit tuning and looking for the "ring" and ONLY checking vertically for intonation, as mine was, it may take some reminding of yourself to keep listening vertically and horizontally at the same time. Music happens over time, too many, my self included, have fallen into the trap of just listening to intervals and chords in a vacuum outside of the context of real music, and then basing our conception of intonation around sounds rather than music. Music is order sounds over time.
There is more I can say on this subject. It has taken me over 10 years of working with ji to get to this point with Pythagorean. but like I said, Take a listen, consider these things, keep listening in both dimensions, and feel free to ask any questions, either here or under one of my videos.
@@RememberGodHolyBible Thanks for the elaboreret explanation!
While I can for certain see the positives of pythagorean tuning - a tuning system that generally is in tune - the buzz and ring IS still a big part of the barbershop sound (for most people anyway).
I look forward checking out your videos!
@@BarbershopTagAlong it's best you don't check out his videos, considering how biased he actually is in lieu of factual accuracy. I checked out his channel, and he believes pythagorean is the literal KJV Christian god-given natural tuning we should use because it's the objectively "correct" one, and the rest of the world is confused and trying to lead us astray with things like 5-limit and 7-limit just intonation. I checked out his overview video on why the world should use pythagorean tuning instead of anything else and it was unconvincing to say the least. He falsely claimed that, up until recently, pythagorean tuning had been humanity's established standard tuning for thousands of years (different cultures have always used various tunings throughout history, and many still do today, so it's ignorant to purposefully ignore how much tuning variety different cultures have had throughout human history), he once implied that some people who push any non-pythagorean tunings do so because they have malicious intent (saying they're "misinformed at best"), said people shouldn't believe all the "nonsense from the microtonal community", claims that 53-note pythagorean tuning (aka stacking 3/2 53 times) is the true correct tuning to use but 53 tone equal temperament isn't because it has tempered/impure perfect fifths (unfortunately they're a whole 0.068 cents flat of 3/2), yet he says it's acceptable to use the close-to-but-not-quite 3/2 (3.615 cents flat of 3/2) that connects each end of pythagorean's 53 fifth stack because "nobody's really gonna be able to tell the difference", which makes you wonder how he could reliably tell the difference between 53-note pythagorean tuning and 53edo if the largest interval size difference between the two is 3.6 cents and the average interval size difference between the two is less than 2 cents, while the average person's JND (just-noticeable difference, aka the lowest cents difference their ear can reliably distinguish) is about 5 cents. He is also part of the 432 Hz supremacy crowd.
Anyway, moral of the story is that, while he's not exactly hurting anyone (it's music misinformation, not medical misinformation), he's misinforming others because he thinks he's divinely ordained to tell other musicians that any non-pythagorean tunings they use are the wrong and bad ones and only the tuning he uses is the correct one given to humanity by god. He's so misinformed on the topic that it makes me feel bad for him.
In conclusion, there is no objectively right or wrong tuning for people to use (it entirely depends on what music they plan to make), but using pythagorean tuning instead of 7-limit just intonation in barbershop is missing the primary point of barbershop. Locking in stable four-part low complexity just intonation chords that ring is like priority #1 of barbershop (I think virtually every singer who aspires to be skilled at barbershop singing would agree), and you just can't do that in pythagorean tuning.
I appreciate your positive attitude in your responses to his comments (it's nice etiquette for a TH-cam creator to interact with all comments they receive that way), but the many claims he makes are objectively wrong and can be easily debunked. They're "misinformed at best". I'm not dissing pythagorean tuning (again, it has its use depending on what music someone plans to make), but it shouldn't be held up high on a holy pedestal like it's objectively superior to all other tunings.
You can hear the ringing chords in Jon Catler's guitar in something like Willie McBlind - Chicken: th-cam.com/video/2ZCLvsr2WQo/w-d-xo.html Theoretically you can ring a chord with a quartertone close to the 11th harmonic, although higher voicings sound better.
I didn't really understand the "Tonal center drift". Why does it happen?
Well for one, a lot of quartets and choirs drop in pitch because of other reasons, but in barbershop it can also happen because we focus on ringing chords and intonation, which can result in tonal center drift.
The biggest reason, how I see it, is this: Because the major 3rd and b7 in a barbershop 7th chord is tuned so low according to the harmonic series (-14 and -31 respectively), and because barbershop is FILLED with those types of chords - unless the group/choir has a really good sense of the tonal center, there’s a good chance they will drop in pitch after a while.
I hope that makes sense! Make sure to watch episode 4 where I go in depth with this 😊
@@BarbershopTagAlong Oh that makes sense, thank you
I think the only time I could truly hear any difference in the sound was when the 7th was added. I think this stuff is mostly far too subtle for me to hear, or to care one way or another if it's Equal or Just temperament.
There is a big difference though between equal tempered and just intonated major 3rd, but it can be very subtle at first. But once you notice it, it’s quite a game changer.
I may not be alone in this, so I wanted to let you know, I (and others with auditory sensitivity) find the scratchiness of the marker overpowering and unlistenable --- ironic in well-produced content about extremely nuanced tonic content.
Thanks for pointing that out! I will fix that going forward :)