Best detailed explanation of timing and how to release the disc properly not using the arm. Look forward to correcting my form with this information!!! Thanks!
I'm 68 years old and been playing every morning for only 2 months. I got up to about 125' muscling the throw. Now, I've watched THOUSANDS of instructional and drill videos. I KNEW I was muscling but could not find the whip, even though I knew about it. My shoulder started hurting, felt like I had been stung by a bee first time I felt it. Went out this morning after watching your vid and spent several minutes on the first tee carefully going over each phase to make sure I was in the right place at the right time. My very first throw went 175' and it felt effortless! No pain. I missed my line by 30 degrees lol, but I was amazed at the distance! Old habits are hard to break and it'll take a while to ingrain this new throw. Thank you for getting me on the right track! Its going to be a great base to build off of. And thanks for taking the time to make this vid. You described it in a way that no one else could. -Paul
BHS, this is a really well put together breakdown. You have a really great way of explaining things and talking comfortably to a camera. That's awesome. But I do have a few points of contention. In “phase 2” you claim the purpose of the x-step is to engage the hips. While a lot of amateurs do this, it’s not correct. The purpose of the x-step is to shift the weight over the toes. If it’s purpose was to engage the hips, crow-hop throwers like Miles Seaborn, Devon Owens, Eric Oakley, or Steve Brinster wouldn’t be able to throw correctly as they never cross their feet. The hips do have to be engaged though. This actually comes in the reachback. When the shoulders turn away from the target they will pull the hips with them and give them the required range of motion. Turning them early turns them too far and they never make it back to powering the shot. And, most importantly, turning them early forces the weight over the back heel preventing the back leg from engaging properly. Your point in phase 3 about the reachback timing is spot on. That’s something that a lot of people miss. But in demonstrating, your plant foot is way too far to the left. The plant foot needs to be offset to the left to create a correct heel turn and weight shift. And your last point in phase 5 is about the arm not powering the shot past the power pocket. That’s entirely wrong in my experience. The speed and effort builds through the shot so the last second is where a bulk of the effort is applied. It’s not coming from your shoulder, it’s coming from your elbow, your tricep. Focusing all your energy on opening your elbow from that point forward will add accuracy and power. It sounds like you’re suggesting people visciously thrust the disc towards their chest and then do nothing from there to actually propel the disc forwards. Again, you have a really clean style and a fantastic presentation. You seem really comfortable in front of the camera and I really like the set with the guitar on the wall and discs on the shelf. I would suggest watching some pros throw their typical 80% power shots rather than maximum distance to get a better idea of what ideal form is. Feel free to message me if you have any questions or want me to look over a script for a video!
+Danny Lindahl Thanks for the input! We'll just agree to disagree on some points. The purpose of my videos is to give a good baseline for beginners to start from. I don't go into great detail into some of the subtle nuances. I feel phase 2 does more than weight shift due to that being able to be accomplished through steps other than the x-step. Crossing that 2nd step behind the first turns the hips. Hips first, then shoulders. Hips first, then shoulders on the pull as well. Crow hoppers are a completely different breed and have their muscle memory down to work with what they do, not recommended for beginners. For phase 5, it's the centrifugal force pulling the disc away from the chest. I recommend for the beginners to not rely on consciously throwing with their arm but throwing with their body instead. Closing the elbow and turning the shoulders and chest toward the basket keeps the disc on the pull line. This enables the arm to act as a whip with the disc being at the tip. I teach high school for a living, so I guess that's where the presentation comes from :)
BHSDiscGolf awesome! There’s getting to be more and more beginner friendly content out there. I feel like we fit the same demographic. Not meaning competition, meaning we have a common goal. It is vital to get the back leg engaged in the weight shift. Turning the back foot forces the heel down and prevents it from being engaged. Practice a few throws keeping your left heel off the ground and see what I mean. Keeping that heel up will naturally force the weight transfer. When you see power throwers turning their foot, it’s not for the purpose of turning their hips, it’s a by-product of their momentum. You can see most of them have their heel off the ground to power that weight shift. Turning the foot back isn’t a beginner thing, it’s a pro move only done when throwing with close to maximum power. When you’re talking about hips then shoulders, I don’t see what you’re seeing. When you see a good reachback, the shoulders and the hips turn in unison. Same for the pull. Everything is one smooth motion. Turning the hips first will naturally carry the shoulders too far in front of the arm to create the required angles with the arm. I agree with you about not trying to throw with too much effort. That’s why I always say “Slow is smooth, smooth is far” at the end of every one of my videos. The problem that I see rampant in the community is rounding. You have a video on rounding with regards to the reachback I believe but I think the bigger problem comes from trying to use rotational power rather than linear power. Meaning focusing on spinning rather than pulling the disc straight. If, from the power pocket, someone focuses on spinning, they will over-rotate their shoulders and lose power. But if they were to let their rotation carry on naturally and instead focus on the arm extension, their shoulders will stay closed to the target better. This will create the effect of whipping the arm in front of the shoulders rather than dragging it behind. I really like your point about starting from the chest in the reachback to create the muscle memory and how important it is to pull the disc in. Well said.
+Danny Lindahl I don't step flat footed with my left foot in my x-step. I may have in this video due to it being slowed down and for being comfortable, holding the position :). I've always viewed the power with rotation building up from the feet. I can see the shoulders and hips turning in unison, but I definitely don't see the shoulders turning the hips. I see the hips beginning to open with the plant foot hitting, which what leads me to seeing the hips activating first. Rounding is definitely a rotational issue, but not just a result of trying to use rotation. The rotational issue is the arc resulting from not bending the elbow. Bending the elbow keeps the disc on the line for the rotation. As you said, everything should flow smoothly, especially connecting phases 4 and 5. Due to my presentation, it may seem like there's a pause there. The shoulders continue rotating through from the reachback, with the disc being thrown with the shoulder rotation. With the elbow bending and the rotation continuing through 4 and 5 without a hitch, the rounding shouldn't occur. I appreciate the time you've taken to comment! I've tried not to produce any videos that you've done as well so as to not conflict :)
Turning the back foot away means the hips can't rotate all the way forward. If you stand with your toes out in an open stance, it's very difficult to rotate the hips more than around 30 degrees. If you turn your feet so they're sideways, then you have much more range of motion. And if you turn the front foot back, the range of motion is increased even more. Having this range of motion is needed for the hips to rotate correctly. If the back foot is turned back, it isn't possible to have the heel off the ground without bending the ankle far past a natural angle. Turning that back foot backwards means the hips have reduced range of motion and, the way you're demonstrating, takes away any way they have of powering the shot. All of the rotation is in unison. The rotation back and the rotation forwards. Trying to get them to fire at different times is not going to work. Starting the hips first will draw the shoulders in front and cause the rounding issue. The root of rounding isn't just an elbow issue. If that was the problem it would be much easier to fix. It comes from a misunderstanding of the source of power in the throw. Yes bending the elbow keeps the disc on line, but the line should be the focus, not a byproduct. Rotation isn't the focus, the line is.
+Danny Lindahl I think we're more in agreement than what it seems, and there are just some semantics issues. The back foot can't prevent the hips from rotating forward if weight transfer is occurring properly. If one was trying to rotate the hips with the left foot planted down with the heel, then yeah, that definitely can create a problem. Like I said, there will just be some points that we'll disagree on, which is okay :). I don't see the hips bringing the shoulders forward because of the muscles being loose, not tense. I think it's a very subtle thing and not as pronounced and drastic as you're making it out to be. Also, the rounding wouldn't occur after the elbow bend if there's flow between 4 &5, and the muscles aren't tense. There's no pause there. The disc has already been travelling on the line for ~50% of the pull and won't just change direction that easily with the shoulders in a continuous state of rotating forward. Too much of what we're disagreeing on is based on hypotheticals and reading into things. I never said that rotation was more important the the line; your power is imparted onto the disc via the rotation. Power and line are separate. However, with the proper timing and motion, the line can become less of a focus. A player should trust that his/her body will put the disc on the intended line through the consistent movement of the body without having to consciously focus on it the entire time. Either way, we're all in this thing together :). I'm looking forward to your next video!
I'm 69 and have been playing for almost six months, mostly in my acre and a half backyard with three baskets. My wife will say how much smoother I am as I progress. Videos like yours make a big difference. If I can pick out one point and work on that, I seem to do better than trying to incorporate too much too soon. I never had a decent backhand in tennis until I figured out that I was throwing my elbow. I took lessons from three different pros who never spotted that. Once I learned to keep my elbow down and close to my body, my backhand got better than my forehand. You affirmed that. I'm also going to try starting with the disc at my left pec. Thanks again for sharing your gift. Go Aggies. We got a good coach and an impeccable program, Our problem is depth as it is with most programs. Bama's second stringers could be be a top 20 team in and of themselves. Plus we're getting out-recruited by those guys in Austin.
Wow. Just what I needed at this point in learning the game. I am 66 years old novice, out of shape, and playing less than a year and averaging 225-235 on drives. Just getting the breakdown of the five steps (the hows and, more importantly, the whys was good enough for an extra 30 feet on today's practice. And I fell more distance coming once what you shared becomes muscle memory. THAKS sooo much.
+Views From a Freshman Disc Golfer Great! This is just a very, very basic runthrough of those steps. Once you get that muscle memory down, you can add more flow to it and work on better weight transfer and hip and shoulder rotation.
Wow! Bro stick with the teaching..I been playin and watching videos for about 2 months..you helped me get my first 2 birdies ina row. And almost aced one.. thank you for the tips!
Hey man, I don't know if this comment will be seen as this video is now 3 years old, but I just had to say thanks for the excellent breakdown and helping me to finally figure out my back hand. I've been playing for a few years, but only started actively practicing and trying to learn BH for about a year now. It's ironic that Danny Lindahl commented, because his videos taught me some bad habits that took forever to drop and I walked away having actually learned very little. After finding videos from yourself and others like seabas22, citysmasher, loopghost who actually explain the mechanical reasons for WHY you do the things you do in a BH throw everything finally started to click. The whole concept regarding loading the hips/shoulders, extending elbow rather than reaching, and dropping the rear knee were all huge light bulb moments for me. There are so many form videos that tell you to do some arbitrary movements, but I need to know the reasoning behind why that movement works, and you've helped me immensely in that regard. Much appreciated.
I watch a lot of videos to improve my drive. This is the most clear and helpful one I"ve come across! Easy to practice indoors. Can hardly hardly wait to try it out in the field! Love seeing that disc fly!
I love this! I think now I finally understand timing, and the whip effect of the disc being pulled from my hand instead of my arm pulling it through. Thank you for this tutorial, I like how you broke it all down. Now to go out and practice it.
Thank you so much for this. I started playing a week ago. I've played a ton of rounds and also practiced a lot. In between, I had been watching TH-cam videos. However, I couldn't find anything with the full motions, until this video. I had seen to throw like you are pulling a lawnmower to start it. I tried doing that, but I kept getting terrible releases and no consistency. It felt uncomfortable. I was only doing it from a standing position. After watching this video and following it, I immediately noticed how wrong I have been throwing for the last week. I have to do it slow, but now at least feel like I am on the path to throwing with correct form. Before, I wasn't turning and using my hips. I'm still slow with everything and don't get much power yet, but I'm happy that I feel like I'm throwing the correct way now, or at least close to it. I can't wait to practice and practice and practice some more this week.
This is what I struggle with every time I go out, I am so glad SOMEONE has broken this down to steps it makes it much easier to know where each body part needs to be during each movement. Thanks! Always excited when a new video comes out.
Great video and Roll Tide! I live in Huntsville and am just now starting out trying to get the techniques down correctly. This is a great help. Thank y’all!
Great video. I really like your explanation of "step 5". This is the part of the throw I'm struggling with. I'm improving, hitting the lines I want, and getting decent results, but I'm throwing drivers about 300 feet max. I've had people say I'm strong arming, or throwing with all arm without rotation (not following through). Its transferring from the linear motion of the throw to a rotational motion of the body that blows my mind. This helped me though. Keep up the good work!
+Brian Underhill Yep, I was stuck at that place for the longest. I always felt the need to force my arm out there because I didn't trust the rotation of the body and shoulders. You've nailed down the timing of hitting your lines when arming the disc; now you need to roll that back and just get that elbow bent, get the disc at the left pec, ease those muscles, and just rotate. The centrifugal force you'll be imparting on the disc from the rotation will rip it forward. As long as your feet and shoulders were moving on the intended line, you should be hitting it.
Hey man, I just wanted to reach out and thank you for this video. I just started playing this summer and I was getting so frustrated about not being able to throw accurately or with distance on my backhand throws. I couldn’t find any resources breaking down the backhand throw to save my life. I would find small bits of info but not the whole formula. After watching your video tonight I went and field tested my driver and was throwing a low straight line 285ft when before I wasn’t able to throw straight and struggled to get 150ft. You are the man for this video and I’ve officially subscribed and have sent this to my friends who just started playing to! THANK YOU! 👏👏👏
Best video on timing I’ve seen yet. This has helped me immensely because before I was trying to “arm” the disc out there and that was causing me a lot of shoulder, upper lat, and back pain. Would love to see a follow up video on “follow through” too.
Excellent communication skills, thank you, sir. I've played for over 25 years, love the game. Problem is I developed my throw over those years based on.. I have no idea. =) I got good enough in this mystery form to want more, but it just wasn't there. For the last couple years, I've been trying to completely revise the way I throw - with body mechanics and the concepts I now understand to be most efficient and reliable. That is no easy hill to climb - fighting against all that muscle memory. My game has gone from something approaching par to bogey golf if I'm lucky. I don't think I need to go any further for you to understand the frustration (and lack of fun playing) that generates. From an understanding of that background, let me thank you for this video. Nice work.
+Eric Ennenga Thank you, sir. I've also been there. When I started 10 years ago, I didn't really have anybody to show me the ropes, so all that negative muscle memory set in. I was constantly looking for those breakthroughs to push me past the plateaus that I would get stuck on.
Thank you so much for this video!! This really made sense to me. I watched it through a few times and kept walking through the phases with you. I kept practicing the steps last night and walked through them at each hole I played today before actually throwing - I am still working on making it smoother but already I was playing more consistently and improved my drives by about 10-15%!! Thank you!!
I've come back and watched this several times now. I think you have presented something important here. I went out and tried playing a round, but right off I slipped on some ice on the first tee and even though I played 10 more holes, after having a disc vanish I got frustrated and called it a day. I will be back out there tomorrow, it's supposed in the 40s, so too warm to pass up. I felt like I just couldn't move in all the heavy clothes so that was a bit frustrating. My drives were a good 50 to 100 foot shorter than my typical. Anyway, I'm back watching this and trying to keep the things in mind for when I get to try some more. Oh, one thing. I recall someone saying that we should stay upright when reaching back, just like you do. The leaning back is said to make our waist not be able to turn but it has to twist more and that makes it slower.
+Javaman92 Yeah, some guys have a crazy long reach back, like Wysocki. It doesnt work for me. After focusing on not arming the disc, your power comes from the speed of your rotation versus trying to muscle it. It definitely takes some getting used to.
This was very helpful for me. I couldn't get used to the 3 steps, though. So I added in my fourth step because I guess it was already a habit. Anyhow, I'm now getting better accuracy and distance. Thank you!
BHS, I just love this video explaining the BASICS of a full throw, in a simplistic way, excluding all advanced mechanical details. I am 57 years old and did play (ball) golf on elite level in the 80s and early 90s. I play tennis also, and have done lots of other sports, as well. I have tried with some success to translate some of those mechanics and muscle memories to disc golf. I have failed totally with distance. I am still flexible and pretty explosive but loose it all basically due to poor technique in all steps that you show. Theoretically I know slightly more than I can actually translate into execution. A good nice flat drive for me (e.g. L64 Culverin or L64 Saint) will just go around 310 feet. Dissapointing! I feel I can do a lot more. A silly thing is that I throw a slow putter almost as long (260 feet). In ball golf I can still hit the ball 850 feet (280 yards). So, I am frustrated about my poor disc golf length. I have watched so many videos this last year, plus tour events, but have not grasped it still. What your/this video did to my understanding, mindset and "feel" (in terms of simplistic theory and translatation to practice) is just amazing! It all came together kind of, in my head at least. It's not only about what you say, it's also about how you say and how you demonstrate it. Extremely well done! I spontaniously wrote here directly once I saw the video. Actually started the search with "keeping elbow high" which I recall Danny mentioned once in a video, then I ran into your video. I will get out to an open field now an use it. After ~1000 throws I will return with posting the results. Scary...what about if I gained only 10 feet..... Now I am nervous... :-) ............. BHS, appreciate any comment of yours to this reply post! ;-)
helpful video! also i think it's worth mentioning, essentially what i've heard pros say is that in the reach back you want to be really loose, and then when you pull through with the elbow, you hit that power pocket when the disc lines up in front of you, and that's where you explode--it's like compacting all your force/energy into the hit.
Good stuff. I have been playing for 2 years and still stand still on the tee. I have never felt comfortable with the run up or the x step. I will absolutely work on this step by step breakdown the next time I am out. Thanks 😎
Great video. I was looking at the critique you did for me and practicing ed everything and having trouble trying to figure out how and when the hips shoulders and throwing arm all worked together in the right time. This helps me a ton.
+Jason bolding Great! After looking at your video and working on it, it gave me the idea to put this one together. In your video, you were definitely strong arming the disc, which is why the disc was released so much earlier than when your chest and shoulders faced the basket. Once you get that elbow bent, ease those muscles in the arm, rotate, and fling it.
This is an awesome video. I have had a hard time with timing which made me rely on my arm. I can get lucky and crush it accurately but then the majority of the time its way off.
Appreciate all the good tips!! Can you do a video on playing the wind? Headwind I understand, but tailwind I'm fuzzy on. I think a more understable disc than you would throw is going to give you more of the result that you want, but what about speed choice? Also, sidewinds and diagonal winds? I'm sure weights might come into play as well. Anyways, thanks for the good vids!!!
+Adam Carlson Yeah, I've got wind on the list. Basically, headwinds will cause your disc to lift and flip more easily. Tailwinds will cause your disc to drop and seem more stable.
It did not...I needed a video like this. Was struggling to sync my steps with my upper body. I was throwing better just by reaching back/rotating then by trying the 3 step.
+Haas Jacinto Martinez Right. Now just add your x-step to get forward momentum, but don't do anything crazy with your arm. Connect your x-step back to how you've been performing your standstill and it'll all work out.
geeez!! i have heard phases 1 thru 4 over and over and over. Phase 5 i have never heard anyone actually say what you just said. By the time i got to phase 5 i was driving the elbow, whipping the arm, ect. Your explanation actually makes sense about using the body to propel the disc. How about doing the Phive Phase thing in the field and video'ing it for us.
+Buddy Mc Yeah, I was looking for another explanation of others saying to whip the arm around and couldn't find much. I'll get some video soon. Thanks!
+Buddy Mc Start with the disc at the left pec, rotate shoulders back while straightening the arm. As the shoulders rotate forward, bend the elbow to get the disc back close to the chest and then increase your rotation forward. The difficulty comes from the weight shift. Personally, for a stand still, I stay on my toes of my plant foot until I start rotating forward, at which point I put my heel down. This helps me transfer the weight forward without an x-step.
+Rick Derby That, and phases 4 and 5 run together so seamlessly. You won't have a lag or delay between 4 and 5; however, I highlight the point between because of the stopping of arm action. Once you begin the pull, you have to bend the elbow (4); once it gets back to your chest and on line, you let rotation do the rest of the work (5).
So would a good way to get used to not arming the disc be to just put the disc at the left pec and then just use rotation to throw the disc? Just from standstill is what I'm meaning.
Are you pivoting your right heel and your left ball of your foot as your rotating your hips and pulling your elbow through? Can’t see the footwork, thanks
Great video. I was having issues with my hand moving to the 12:00 position on the disc during the reach back. And then not really being in the correct position while pulling it across my body. Now that I have that issue fixed, I am being plagued with nose up issues. I suppose its just a muscle memory problem?
I have the same issue. Keeping my hand on the opposite side of the disc is the main thing I have to consciously focus on during my throw. When I don't, I end up having an early release. Your nose up issues could be from a number of things. You'll have to go through and check them off. The first one is grip: you should grip the disc so that it follows the straight line of your arm instead of across the palm. Another one is weight shift: if your weight is on your back foot at release, it could be causing nose up. The best thing to do would be to record yourself throwing and then watch it. It helps so much!
Thanks. Nice to know its not an uncommon problem. I am aware that I have weight shift problems as well. Mostly noticed when the disc goes straight up at release. I think I just need to slow everything down...thanks for getting back to me!
Yeah, Danny Lindahl says "Slow is smooth and smooth is far." It's great advice. Your power is going to come from the disc ripping out at the hit point. That's where you want all of your power to be. Go through your x-step smoothly and add power at the end.
The weather was above 40 today, which is warm for here so I went out and found my disc and played a round. I found that on almost every drive I was throwing an anhyzer when I didn't intend to. I was trying to figure out if it was my arm angle, my wrist angle or what the deal was. It ended up being a frustrating round. I was purposely throwing slower discs because I had noted this problem recently. My fast discs mask the problem. Any thoughts on what could be causing it? I'm willing to wait if ya want to make a video on it. ;-)
+Javaman92 It could be your wrist angle. Without seeing a video of it, it's hard to tell. It could also be that you're pulling your arm though on an arc.
I'm going through the same thing myself. My power is going up, and it is hard to commit to it, so I still (I think) address the pad and target as if the disc it going to come out early and go short left. Like a slicer that hits to the left. If I get into it, it annies, stays low, and drifts right. I need to commit to the shot and mean to throw it that way. Two things I did and am doing. First, I don't mind buying discs. I'm trying out Wraiths and Orcs and a Krait, which are pretty overstable in the Pro and Gstar plastics. My Gstar Beast is the flippiest disc I throw now - I have to be careful with it but it is also my longest. For some reason I am driving most consistently with a Gstar Firebird. I can laser it pretty straight, and even flex it a bit, before it gives in and finishes hard left. Can't get a whole lot of distance with the Firebird. Discs get worn out, sometimes much quicker than you think they should. I have a Destroyer in the bag that I dare you to annie. You might need some new discs. More importantly, I can begin to be trusted to throw a hyzer. That's more difficult than one might think - I've trained myself to throw flat to slightly annie for years to compensate for lack of power. Throwing an intentional hyzer now invites grip lock and other timing and aiming issues. It's harder to get that whip action and snap out of the fingers. Went out with some friends and threw drivers back and forth at lunch today. I'll just work it out, and I'm not compromising on my power, so I can only keep tweaking and practicing.
+Geoff Graham What are you doing to get your disc on the hyzer angle? Instead of putting my wrist and disc on a hyzer, I bent my body over the disc on the pull through, putting my shot on a hyzer. It ends up being much more consistent for me.
Sure. Slowly. I also have to unlearn snapping it downwards, releasing on an annie. I'm prone to pulling over the top of the disc at release. Which might be okay if I can learn to lean forward a bit. Practice is the only way to work through it.
Great video. I’m having a major issue with late release or crazy anny release (I kept a D1 on an anny line for 300+/- ft). Any suggestions on how to help with that?
+Alexander Rhodes Your late release is likely to do with rounding your arm in your pull through. If you don't bend the elbow before the shoulders rotate forward, the disc gets stuck behind your nom driving arm, and you're forced to swing it out wide on an arc. Anhyzer releases can be from throwing with a low elbow or having off axis torque with the wrist on your follow through. Make sure that your arm follows through on the same plane that you're intending to throw on. If you're dropping your arm in your follow through, it could cause anhyzer. Last, the anhyzer release could be a result of over rotation due to incorrect footwork. If you approach the teebox from back right to front left and are still trying to throw straight ahead, it can result in an anhyzer.
BHSDiscGolf time for some field work. You are awesome sir. Thank you for the help in video and in the reply. People like you are why the disc community is second to none.
Thoughts from Nate and Paul on the backhand drive and the purpose of the x step. " ... my whole goal is to turn my hips and shoulders around away from my target to get into that loaded position that I quickly mentioned..." th-cam.com/video/U0gzNIRxRbY/w-d-xo.html
Great video. Going to try this next time I do field work. Where abouts in Alabama are you? I'd love to hear course recommendations as I live in Panama City. Also, I think it's awesome that you and Danny were discussing dialogue. Collaboration!?! That'd be sweet.
+LuckySlydog Yeah, he's got a wealth of knowledge. I think he's in Arkansas, so it'd be tough. If you come to Mobile, try out Langan Park, the Admiral, and Chickasabogue!
I have heard many high ranked players speak of pulling through your core area instead of across the shoulders, saying we are robbing ourselves of power by pulling through using weaker muscles. I notice that I pull through higher than my core, closer to what you suggest here. Your thoughts on pulling through the core area instead? Also for me, I find trying to practice inside harmful. Like you mentioned in passing at the end of this video, I will hit the wall. So what I find myself doing is checking my swing considerably so as not to hit my hand on something. It took me most of last season to realize that fear had translated into my swing on the course and was hurting me. Last summer I had no excuse for practicing inside instead of outside. I guess I was watching videos and trying to learn. Overall I thought this was great and I bet it will improve my drive. I plan on hitting the course tomorrow, the sun will be out and it will be warmer about 33 degrees. I suppose I should tape some ribbons on my discs I will be using, we have a good amount of snow out there. lol :-)
+Javaman92 My issue with pulling through the core is that it typically causes me to throw nose up. Schusterick definitely pulls through his core and crushes it. I do believe that you can generate more power that way because you're using more muscle groups, but I'm not mechanically blessed in that area :). For those that are still arming the disc and not incorporating a lot of shoulder turn, I would recommend starting here. Once the timing is down, they should try pulling through their core. I'm a firm believer in starting simple and effective then building from there. Good luck in the snow!
Schusterick also has long lanky arms and a somewhat bendy body. His shoulders aren't attached like mine. I doubt I will ever throw like him. That's why it's easy to be a McBeth fan. Physically fit, but a pretty regular sized dude. Technically, I could throw like him. Just need to play everyday for a few years and develop a lust to win... (Great tips btw)
+Geoff Graham Just chip away at it one step at a time. Don't overwhelm yourself with getting perfect form right away. Take one aspect at a time to improve on.
+BHSDiscGolf ain't nobody got time for that man - I'm 52. And first played in the 80s. So, high time to get a move on, skill wise. I worked at a battery factory, where the lead is pretty heavy, and tore the ligaments at the point of the right shoulder. They jammed a giant needle like a pencil of cortizone right in between the bones there. Three times. That shit still hurts 20 years later. So I really have no choice but to force myself to get proper rotation, use the body, and just let the arm whip through, without pulling on those weak ass tendons. Or live with 200 foot drives that hurt a lot. My best drivers right now are Firebirds, so I'm sort of overdoing it. I have a DX that's getting too flippy, but have a GStar I can trust not to go right on me. As I hone my style, I'm reaching back on the x step, not on the plant step. I'm going to try your way a few times. And not only because the timing is simpler, but I'm putting better like that too. My best putting motion is a quick jab spin putt. If I can do it without thinking, I hit a lot of those. When I take my time and aim, make a few pendulum motions, I miss every time. That might be my style, a quick back and forth.
+Geoff Graham You'll find that reachback timing pretty standard when you watch pro videos. Reaching back as your plant foot moves forward then snapping it forward as soon as the plant foot hits will help you get in that rhythm that is familiar in your putt.
Great video brother! You say once you bend your elbow to ease the muscles in your arm but I seem to have to grip it as tight as I can through the rotation to keep from early releasing. Any advice on gripping the disc tight and staying loose in the arm? The two seem like opposites to me. Thanks man!
+josh g Of course! Try gripping with just your thumb and index finger. For me, this allows me to keep a grip on my disc without tensing up the muscles in my forearm. When I grip tight with all 4 fingers and my thumb, I feel my forearm get tense and my elbow doesn't have a lot of give to it. You definitely want to keep a grip on the disc, but you don't want it to rob you of flexibility.
Great job love the videos. As a beginner I hear a lot of people talk about rounding does this correct that? Again thank you for producing such an informal video and keep up the good work
+Timothy Rumachik Yes! Rounding occurs when you don't bring the elbow forward. When the elbow is left straight and the shoulders begin to turn, the disc gets trapped behind your body, and you're forced to bring the disc around on a rounded arc.
+Macky D Yeah, that sounds like you aren't activating your elbow to get the disc back on line. Your rotation is good because you're crushing it; you just need to get the disc back on line with that bent elbow.
That +400 is rare (usually 325-375). I believe you are correct sir. Now that I think of it I don't incorporate my elbow much at all. Wish there was no snow so I could go do some fieldwork right now
+Macky D As soon as your plant foot touches, drive that elbow forward as you're turning your shoulder back to perpendicular with the target line. That'll put the disc back close to your body and prevent the errant shots to the right.
+Bobby Swain Thanks. For those still starting out, I figured it would be best to give little checkpoints to reference in their throw to help get that timing down.
Thanks, it all makes even more sens once you understand the weight shift into the brace. This video (th-cam.com/video/D2A7MA1BV0g/w-d-xo.html) has been the best explanation for me, although it comes from baseball, not disc golf. The principals are the same (arm moves with the hip).
+Creative Fly Fishing Nice link! Yeah, the principal is the same between the baseball swing and the backhand. For the longest time I was afraid to let my body propel my arm forward. I thought that if I did, I would have crazy, errant shots.
+Javaman92 The hips should rotate and snap before the shoulders rotate forward. The hips snapping forward basically falls into phase 4 and 5, where you're bringing the disc back to in front of your chest and continuing to rotate forward to propel the disc.
Javaman92 as far as I understand, that (and the power pocket) is the difference between 300 feet and 400+. And not many really do easily throw 300+ , which tells you how hard it is to figure these things out... But we never give up 🙂
I'm going to go ahead and challenge what you say about the shoulder propelling the disc in phase 5. I think that is plain wrong. The shoulder should not lead the arm, it's the other way around. The arm should swing out just before the upper body turns toward the target. This is why good throwers (by their own admission) don't look at the flight of disc until it has already ripped out of heir hand. If they did, the shoulder would have opened up too early. The rest of the break down was good though.
I think thats a natural reaction to the elbow bending back to the body as the shoulders are already rotating forward since the reachback. The arm may get ahead of the shoulders, but the shoulders are in a state of rotation way before the arm gets in front of the body.
BHS, love you vids as well as Danny's. I've watched 'most' of the vids out there on backhand form/timing/reachback/pull and as others have stated here - phase 5 is a new one for me as well. Just talking about 'beeing loose' like others do doesn't put it the way you do it! Great job! About your discussion with Danny regarding hip/should timing/order. This clip on Lizotte is pretty clear on how he does it! th-cam.com/video/41oi6CGRtYg/w-d-xo.html
Just focus on the movement between the throwing arm and your feet, not the placement of each. As you're moving your plant foot forward, you should be reaching back with your arm. Once the plant foot hits, you should be at full reachback. As you pull forward, make sure you get your throwing arm ahead of your non-throwing shoulder so that it doesn't cause rounding. I hope this helps! I was trying to present something generic, because everybody will have their own style. I wasn't exactly sure how to do that any other way. The core principles are still there regardless of the individual style you put into your throw.
I have to agree with Danny below. The purpose of the X-step isn't to engage the hips. Top pros keep their hips parallel to the line during the x-step. As they reach back, and move their plant foot in place, the hips move into position. If you look at many newer players they make a huge turn with their hips very early, and both feet are usually pointing backwards. From their they just spin everything around. If you look at the video below you'll see how Will, Paul, Jeremy, and Dave use their hips. th-cam.com/video/GfjiaZ9DvXQ/w-d-xo.html
Best detailed explanation of timing and how to release the disc properly not using the arm. Look forward to correcting my form with this information!!! Thanks!
I'm 68 years old and been playing every morning for only 2 months. I got up to about 125' muscling the throw. Now, I've watched THOUSANDS of instructional and drill videos. I KNEW I was muscling but could not find the whip, even though I knew about it. My shoulder started hurting, felt like I had been stung by a bee first time I felt it.
Went out this morning after watching your vid and spent several minutes on the first tee carefully going over each phase to make sure I was in the right place at the right time. My very first throw went 175' and it felt effortless! No pain. I missed my line by 30 degrees lol, but I was amazed at the distance!
Old habits are hard to break and it'll take a while to ingrain this new throw. Thank you for getting me on the right track! Its going to be a great base to build off of.
And thanks for taking the time to make this vid. You described it in a way that no one else could. -Paul
BHS, this is a really well put together breakdown. You have a really great way of explaining things and talking comfortably to a camera. That's awesome. But I do have a few points of contention.
In “phase 2” you claim the purpose of the x-step is to engage the hips. While a lot of amateurs do this, it’s not correct. The purpose of the x-step is to shift the weight over the toes. If it’s purpose was to engage the hips, crow-hop throwers like Miles Seaborn, Devon Owens, Eric Oakley, or Steve Brinster wouldn’t be able to throw correctly as they never cross their feet. The hips do have to be engaged though. This actually comes in the reachback. When the shoulders turn away from the target they will pull the hips with them and give them the required range of motion. Turning them early turns them too far and they never make it back to powering the shot. And, most importantly, turning them early forces the weight over the back heel preventing the back leg from engaging properly.
Your point in phase 3 about the reachback timing is spot on. That’s something that a lot of people miss. But in demonstrating, your plant foot is way too far to the left. The plant foot needs to be offset to the left to create a correct heel turn and weight shift.
And your last point in phase 5 is about the arm not powering the shot past the power pocket. That’s entirely wrong in my experience. The speed and effort builds through the shot so the last second is where a bulk of the effort is applied. It’s not coming from your shoulder, it’s coming from your elbow, your tricep. Focusing all your energy on opening your elbow from that point forward will add accuracy and power. It sounds like you’re suggesting people visciously thrust the disc towards their chest and then do nothing from there to actually propel the disc forwards.
Again, you have a really clean style and a fantastic presentation. You seem really comfortable in front of the camera and I really like the set with the guitar on the wall and discs on the shelf. I would suggest watching some pros throw their typical 80% power shots rather than maximum distance to get a better idea of what ideal form is. Feel free to message me if you have any questions or want me to look over a script for a video!
+Danny Lindahl Thanks for the input! We'll just agree to disagree on some points. The purpose of my videos is to give a good baseline for beginners to start from. I don't go into great detail into some of the subtle nuances.
I feel phase 2 does more than weight shift due to that being able to be accomplished through steps other than the x-step. Crossing that 2nd step behind the first turns the hips. Hips first, then shoulders. Hips first, then shoulders on the pull as well. Crow hoppers are a completely different breed and have their muscle memory down to work with what they do, not recommended for beginners.
For phase 5, it's the centrifugal force pulling the disc away from the chest. I recommend for the beginners to not rely on consciously throwing with their arm but throwing with their body instead. Closing the elbow and turning the shoulders and chest toward the basket keeps the disc on the pull line. This enables the arm to act as a whip with the disc being at the tip.
I teach high school for a living, so I guess that's where the presentation comes from :)
BHSDiscGolf awesome! There’s getting to be more and more beginner friendly content out there. I feel like we fit the same demographic. Not meaning competition, meaning we have a common goal.
It is vital to get the back leg engaged in the weight shift. Turning the back foot forces the heel down and prevents it from being engaged. Practice a few throws keeping your left heel off the ground and see what I mean. Keeping that heel up will naturally force the weight transfer. When you see power throwers turning their foot, it’s not for the purpose of turning their hips, it’s a by-product of their momentum. You can see most of them have their heel off the ground to power that weight shift. Turning the foot back isn’t a beginner thing, it’s a pro move only done when throwing with close to maximum power.
When you’re talking about hips then shoulders, I don’t see what you’re seeing. When you see a good reachback, the shoulders and the hips turn in unison. Same for the pull. Everything is one smooth motion. Turning the hips first will naturally carry the shoulders too far in front of the arm to create the required angles with the arm.
I agree with you about not trying to throw with too much effort. That’s why I always say “Slow is smooth, smooth is far” at the end of every one of my videos. The problem that I see rampant in the community is rounding. You have a video on rounding with regards to the reachback I believe but I think the bigger problem comes from trying to use rotational power rather than linear power. Meaning focusing on spinning rather than pulling the disc straight. If, from the power pocket, someone focuses on spinning, they will over-rotate their shoulders and lose power. But if they were to let their rotation carry on naturally and instead focus on the arm extension, their shoulders will stay closed to the target better. This will create the effect of whipping the arm in front of the shoulders rather than dragging it behind.
I really like your point about starting from the chest in the reachback to create the muscle memory and how important it is to pull the disc in. Well said.
+Danny Lindahl I don't step flat footed with my left foot in my x-step. I may have in this video due to it being slowed down and for being comfortable, holding the position :).
I've always viewed the power with rotation building up from the feet. I can see the shoulders and hips turning in unison, but I definitely don't see the shoulders turning the hips. I see the hips beginning to open with the plant foot hitting, which what leads me to seeing the hips activating first.
Rounding is definitely a rotational issue, but not just a result of trying to use rotation. The rotational issue is the arc resulting from not bending the elbow. Bending the elbow keeps the disc on the line for the rotation.
As you said, everything should flow smoothly, especially connecting phases 4 and 5. Due to my presentation, it may seem like there's a pause there. The shoulders continue rotating through from the reachback, with the disc being thrown with the shoulder rotation. With the elbow bending and the rotation continuing through 4 and 5 without a hitch, the rounding shouldn't occur.
I appreciate the time you've taken to comment! I've tried not to produce any videos that you've done as well so as to not conflict :)
Turning the back foot away means the hips can't rotate all the way forward. If you stand with your toes out in an open stance, it's very difficult to rotate the hips more than around 30 degrees. If you turn your feet so they're sideways, then you have much more range of motion. And if you turn the front foot back, the range of motion is increased even more. Having this range of motion is needed for the hips to rotate correctly. If the back foot is turned back, it isn't possible to have the heel off the ground without bending the ankle far past a natural angle. Turning that back foot backwards means the hips have reduced range of motion and, the way you're demonstrating, takes away any way they have of powering the shot.
All of the rotation is in unison. The rotation back and the rotation forwards. Trying to get them to fire at different times is not going to work. Starting the hips first will draw the shoulders in front and cause the rounding issue.
The root of rounding isn't just an elbow issue. If that was the problem it would be much easier to fix. It comes from a misunderstanding of the source of power in the throw. Yes bending the elbow keeps the disc on line, but the line should be the focus, not a byproduct. Rotation isn't the focus, the line is.
+Danny Lindahl I think we're more in agreement than what it seems, and there are just some semantics issues.
The back foot can't prevent the hips from rotating forward if weight transfer is occurring properly. If one was trying to rotate the hips with the left foot planted down with the heel, then yeah, that definitely can create a problem.
Like I said, there will just be some points that we'll disagree on, which is okay :). I don't see the hips bringing the shoulders forward because of the muscles being loose, not tense. I think it's a very subtle thing and not as pronounced and drastic as you're making it out to be. Also, the rounding wouldn't occur after the elbow bend if there's flow between 4 &5, and the muscles aren't tense. There's no pause there. The disc has already been travelling on the line for ~50% of the pull and won't just change direction that easily with the shoulders in a continuous state of rotating forward. Too much of what we're disagreeing on is based on hypotheticals and reading into things.
I never said that rotation was more important the the line; your power is imparted onto the disc via the rotation. Power and line are separate. However, with the proper timing and motion, the line can become less of a focus. A player should trust that his/her body will put the disc on the intended line through the consistent movement of the body without having to consciously focus on it the entire time.
Either way, we're all in this thing together :).
I'm looking forward to your next video!
I'm 69 and have been playing for almost six months, mostly in my acre and a half backyard with three baskets. My wife will say how much smoother I am as I progress. Videos like yours make a big difference. If I can pick out one point and work on that, I seem to do better than trying to incorporate too much too soon. I never had a decent backhand in tennis until I figured out that I was throwing my elbow. I took lessons from three different pros who never spotted that. Once I learned to keep my elbow down and close to my body, my backhand got better than my forehand. You affirmed that. I'm also going to try starting with the disc at my left pec. Thanks again for sharing your gift.
Go Aggies. We got a good coach and an impeccable program, Our problem is depth as it is with most programs. Bama's second stringers could be be a top 20 team in and of themselves. Plus we're getting out-recruited by those guys in Austin.
This video has upped the consistency of my game by an order of magnitude. Thank you!
Wow. Just what I needed at this point in learning the game. I am 66 years old novice, out of shape, and playing less than a year and averaging 225-235 on drives. Just getting the breakdown of the five steps (the hows and, more importantly, the whys was good enough for an extra 30 feet on today's practice. And I fell more distance coming once what you shared becomes muscle memory. THAKS sooo much.
+Views From a Freshman Disc Golfer Great! This is just a very, very basic runthrough of those steps. Once you get that muscle memory down, you can add more flow to it and work on better weight transfer and hip and shoulder rotation.
Wow! Bro stick with the teaching..I been playin and watching videos for about 2 months..you helped me get my first 2 birdies ina row. And almost aced one.. thank you for the tips!
Thanks so much for this video! I am new to disc golf and watching this breakdown is extremely helpful.
Thank you very-very much! That was really helpful. I played three years without knowing, what I was doing wrong. Now I do. Finally. You’re the best!
Someone on Reddit directed me to this video. In my humble opinion, this is one of the most in-depth and helpful videos I have watched. Thank you!
Hey man, I don't know if this comment will be seen as this video is now 3 years old, but I just had to say thanks for the excellent breakdown and helping me to finally figure out my back hand. I've been playing for a few years, but only started actively practicing and trying to learn BH for about a year now. It's ironic that Danny Lindahl commented, because his videos taught me some bad habits that took forever to drop and I walked away having actually learned very little. After finding videos from yourself and others like seabas22, citysmasher, loopghost who actually explain the mechanical reasons for WHY you do the things you do in a BH throw everything finally started to click. The whole concept regarding loading the hips/shoulders, extending elbow rather than reaching, and dropping the rear knee were all huge light bulb moments for me. There are so many form videos that tell you to do some arbitrary movements, but I need to know the reasoning behind why that movement works, and you've helped me immensely in that regard. Much appreciated.
This explanation is money. I"ve been trying to figure out what's been wrong with my drive. Great vid!
Thanks
I watch a lot of videos to improve my drive. This is the most clear and helpful one I"ve come across! Easy to practice indoors. Can hardly hardly wait to try it out in the field! Love seeing that disc fly!
I love this! I think now I finally understand timing, and the whip effect of the disc being pulled from my hand instead of my arm pulling it through. Thank you for this tutorial, I like how you broke it all down. Now to go out and practice it.
Thank you so much for this. I started playing a week ago. I've played a ton of rounds and also practiced a lot. In between, I had been watching TH-cam videos. However, I couldn't find anything with the full motions, until this video. I had seen to throw like you are pulling a lawnmower to start it. I tried doing that, but I kept getting terrible releases and no consistency. It felt uncomfortable. I was only doing it from a standing position. After watching this video and following it, I immediately noticed how wrong I have been throwing for the last week. I have to do it slow, but now at least feel like I am on the path to throwing with correct form. Before, I wasn't turning and using my hips. I'm still slow with everything and don't get much power yet, but I'm happy that I feel like I'm throwing the correct way now, or at least close to it. I can't wait to practice and practice and practice some more this week.
That's awesome!
This is what I struggle with every time I go out, I am so glad SOMEONE has broken this down to steps it makes it much easier to know where each body part needs to be during each movement. Thanks! Always excited when a new video comes out.
+Theresa Patton Thanks! Let me know if it helps next time you get some field work in!
Great video and Roll Tide! I live in Huntsville and am just now starting out trying to get the techniques down correctly. This is a great help. Thank y’all!
Roll Tide!
Love this video. I see most, if not all, of my issues watching this. Great job and thanks
Thanks!!!
Great video. I really like your explanation of "step 5". This is the part of the throw I'm struggling with. I'm improving, hitting the lines I want, and getting decent results, but I'm throwing drivers about 300 feet max. I've had people say I'm strong arming, or throwing with all arm without rotation (not following through). Its transferring from the linear motion of the throw to a rotational motion of the body that blows my mind. This helped me though. Keep up the good work!
+Brian Underhill Yep, I was stuck at that place for the longest. I always felt the need to force my arm out there because I didn't trust the rotation of the body and shoulders.
You've nailed down the timing of hitting your lines when arming the disc; now you need to roll that back and just get that elbow bent, get the disc at the left pec, ease those muscles, and just rotate. The centrifugal force you'll be imparting on the disc from the rotation will rip it forward. As long as your feet and shoulders were moving on the intended line, you should be hitting it.
Thank you BHS. I love all the help I can get
Hey man, I just wanted to reach out and thank you for this video. I just started playing this summer and I was getting so frustrated about not being able to throw accurately or with distance on my backhand throws. I couldn’t find any resources breaking down the backhand throw to save my life. I would find small bits of info but not the whole formula. After watching your video tonight I went and field tested my driver and was throwing a low straight line 285ft when before I wasn’t able to throw straight and struggled to get 150ft. You are the man for this video and I’ve officially subscribed and have sent this to my friends who just started playing to! THANK YOU! 👏👏👏
Best video on timing I’ve seen yet. This has helped me immensely because before I was trying to “arm” the disc out there and that was causing me a lot of shoulder, upper lat, and back pain. Would love to see a follow up video on “follow through” too.
Immediately sent that to my wife who plays. I think it will really help. Great information in a compact form.
Great!
Excellent communication skills, thank you, sir. I've played for over 25 years, love the game. Problem is I developed my throw over those years based on.. I have no idea. =) I got good enough in this mystery form to want more, but it just wasn't there. For the last couple years, I've been trying to completely revise the way I throw - with body mechanics and the concepts I now understand to be most efficient and reliable. That is no easy hill to climb - fighting against all that muscle memory. My game has gone from something approaching par to bogey golf if I'm lucky. I don't think I need to go any further for you to understand the frustration (and lack of fun playing) that generates. From an understanding of that background, let me thank you for this video. Nice work.
+Eric Ennenga Thank you, sir. I've also been there. When I started 10 years ago, I didn't really have anybody to show me the ropes, so all that negative muscle memory set in. I was constantly looking for those breakthroughs to push me past the plateaus that I would get stuck on.
ACTUALLY THE BEST BREAKDOWN I'VE SEEN. GREAT JOB. A GREAT PLACE FOR EVERYONE TO START I'M GOING TO TRY IT.
+David Alperti Thanks!
Thank you so much for this video!! This really made sense to me. I watched it through a few times and kept walking through the phases with you. I kept practicing the steps last night and walked through them at each hole I played today before actually throwing - I am still working on making it smoother but already I was playing more consistently and improved my drives by about 10-15%!! Thank you!!
I've come back and watched this several times now. I think you have presented something important here. I went out and tried playing a round, but right off I slipped on some ice on the first tee and even though I played 10 more holes, after having a disc vanish I got frustrated and called it a day. I will be back out there tomorrow, it's supposed in the 40s, so too warm to pass up. I felt like I just couldn't move in all the heavy clothes so that was a bit frustrating. My drives were a good 50 to 100 foot shorter than my typical. Anyway, I'm back watching this and trying to keep the things in mind for when I get to try some more.
Oh, one thing. I recall someone saying that we should stay upright when reaching back, just like you do. The leaning back is said to make our waist not be able to turn but it has to twist more and that makes it slower.
+Javaman92 Yeah, some guys have a crazy long reach back, like Wysocki. It doesnt work for me. After focusing on not arming the disc, your power comes from the speed of your rotation versus trying to muscle it. It definitely takes some getting used to.
This was very helpful for me. I couldn't get used to the 3 steps, though. So I added in my fourth step because I guess it was already a habit. Anyhow, I'm now getting better accuracy and distance. Thank you!
BHS, I just love this video explaining the BASICS of a full throw, in a simplistic way, excluding all advanced mechanical details. I am 57 years old and did play (ball) golf on elite level in the 80s and early 90s. I play tennis also, and have done lots of other sports, as well. I have tried with some success to translate some of those mechanics and muscle memories to disc golf. I have failed totally with distance. I am still flexible and pretty explosive but loose it all basically due to poor technique in all steps that you show. Theoretically I know slightly more than I can actually translate into execution. A good nice flat drive for me (e.g. L64 Culverin or L64 Saint) will just go around 310 feet. Dissapointing! I feel I can do a lot more. A silly thing is that I throw a slow putter almost as long (260 feet). In ball golf I can still hit the ball 850 feet (280 yards). So, I am frustrated about my poor disc golf length. I have watched so many videos this last year, plus tour events, but have not grasped it still. What your/this video did to my understanding, mindset and "feel" (in terms of simplistic theory and translatation to practice) is just amazing! It all came together kind of, in my head at least. It's not only about what you say, it's also about how you say and how you demonstrate it. Extremely well done! I spontaniously wrote here directly once I saw the video. Actually started the search with "keeping elbow high" which I recall Danny mentioned once in a video, then I ran into your video. I will get out to an open field now an use it. After ~1000 throws I will return with posting the results. Scary...what about if I gained only 10 feet..... Now I am nervous... :-) ............. BHS, appreciate any comment of yours to this reply post! ;-)
helpful video! also i think it's worth mentioning, essentially what i've heard pros say is that in the reach back you want to be really loose, and then when you pull through with the elbow, you hit that power pocket when the disc lines up in front of you, and that's where you explode--it's like compacting all your force/energy into the hit.
+dr05guitar Yep, once you get that disc back to your chest, the rest is just fast rotation.
Good stuff. I have been playing for 2 years and still stand still on the tee. I have never felt comfortable with the run up or the x step. I will absolutely work on this step by step breakdown the next time I am out. Thanks 😎
+John Herner Thanks! That was the whole purpose: easy to follow steps.
Great video. I was looking at the critique you did for me and practicing ed everything and having trouble trying to figure out how and when the hips shoulders and throwing arm all worked together in the right time. This helps me a ton.
+Jason bolding Great! After looking at your video and working on it, it gave me the idea to put this one together. In your video, you were definitely strong arming the disc, which is why the disc was released so much earlier than when your chest and shoulders faced the basket. Once you get that elbow bent, ease those muscles in the arm, rotate, and fling it.
What a great video. Thanks so much. I can't wait to put this into practice in the field.
+TwoBuck Chuck Thanks!
You just answered my questions. . . Great video.
Saw CE eagle on shelf. Screamed AHHH just a tiny bit when you grabbed it. LOL.
+Packersrulealways Hah! It's a 10x Pro Eagle. Slightly used, but the rim is in really good shape.
I love the breakdown, much easier to understand. Nice
Best disc golf tutorial ever
Awesome tutorial man.
Really great video and explanation. I can't wait to get outside and work on it!
+JayPal3 Take it a little bit at a time, and when you feel like you got it down, string it together smoothly and let it rip!
That's what I really like about your video. You make everything very clear with the repetition. That helps me a lot!
+JayPal3 Thanks! I think that just comes from the background in education. I don't really realize how repetitive I am until I go back and watch it.
Great video! Thanks!
+Eric London Thanks!
Thanks for the video. Great job explaining.
+RVing Here and There Thanks!
This is an awesome video. I have had a hard time with timing which made me rely on my arm. I can get lucky and crush it accurately but then the majority of the time its way off.
+Jack Bailey Once you get a firm grip on the timing, work the rigidity out of it, work through it smoothly, and it'll all come together.
Liked and subed! Awesome video! Will watch it a few more times and put it to field work when the snow has cleared 😄
+Jon Zerba ahh snow. I'm glad we only get that once or twice every few years ;)
Thanks man. This one video helped me so much. I cant even thank you enough.
+Chad Legereit Thank YOU!
Best explanation for driving out there thank you
This video was SO helpful, thank you
You're welcome! Thank YOU!
Appreciate all the good tips!! Can you do a video on playing the wind? Headwind I understand, but tailwind I'm fuzzy on. I think a more understable disc than you would throw is going to give you more of the result that you want, but what about speed choice? Also, sidewinds and diagonal winds? I'm sure weights might come into play as well. Anyways, thanks for the good vids!!!
+Adam Carlson Yeah, I've got wind on the list. Basically, headwinds will cause your disc to lift and flip more easily. Tailwinds will cause your disc to drop and seem more stable.
been waiting all day to watch this
+Haas Jacinto Martinez Haha, hopefully it doesnt disappoint
It did not...I needed a video like this. Was struggling to sync my steps with my upper body. I was throwing better just by reaching back/rotating then by trying the 3 step.
+Haas Jacinto Martinez Right. Now just add your x-step to get forward momentum, but don't do anything crazy with your arm. Connect your x-step back to how you've been performing your standstill and it'll all work out.
BHSDiscGolf Got it...Gotta say all your videos are great but this one is gonna be right next to the Beto drill side by side.
+Haas Jacinto Martinez Ahh.. the old Dan Beto video. Old school...
Awesome info, thanks.
Thanks, great video, lot of help from this. Could you break up forehand similar also?
geeez!! i have heard phases 1 thru 4 over and over and over. Phase 5 i have never heard anyone actually say what you just said. By the time i got to phase 5 i was driving the elbow, whipping the arm, ect. Your explanation actually makes sense about using the body to propel the disc. How about doing the Phive Phase thing in the field and video'ing it for us.
+Buddy Mc Yeah, I was looking for another explanation of others saying to whip the arm around and couldn't find much. I'll get some video soon.
Thanks!
One more thing. how would one use this in a stand still drive?
+Buddy Mc Start with the disc at the left pec, rotate shoulders back while straightening the arm. As the shoulders rotate forward, bend the elbow to get the disc back close to the chest and then increase your rotation forward. The difficulty comes from the weight shift. Personally, for a stand still, I stay on my toes of my plant foot until I start rotating forward, at which point I put my heel down. This helps me transfer the weight forward without an x-step.
Buddy Mc basically just skip phase 1 lol
+Rick Derby That, and phases 4 and 5 run together so seamlessly. You won't have a lag or delay between 4 and 5; however, I highlight the point between because of the stopping of arm action. Once you begin the pull, you have to bend the elbow (4); once it gets back to your chest and on line, you let rotation do the rest of the work (5).
Greatness bro...really good info
It helps me a lot. THANKS
So would a good way to get used to not arming the disc be to just put the disc at the left pec and then just use rotation to throw the disc? Just from standstill is what I'm meaning.
+Blaine Hock Yep. I throw my putter upshots like that. The only real arm movement to consciously incorporate should be with the elbow.
This is THE BEST!!
Thank You!!
Great tips thanks you
+porter375 You're welcome!
Are you pivoting your right heel and your left ball of your foot as your rotating your hips and pulling your elbow through? Can’t see the footwork, thanks
Great video. I was having issues with my hand moving to the 12:00 position on the disc during the reach back. And then not really being in the correct position while pulling it across my body. Now that I have that issue fixed, I am being plagued with nose up issues. I suppose its just a muscle memory problem?
I have the same issue. Keeping my hand on the opposite side of the disc is the main thing I have to consciously focus on during my throw. When I don't, I end up having an early release.
Your nose up issues could be from a number of things. You'll have to go through and check them off. The first one is grip: you should grip the disc so that it follows the straight line of your arm instead of across the palm. Another one is weight shift: if your weight is on your back foot at release, it could be causing nose up.
The best thing to do would be to record yourself throwing and then watch it. It helps so much!
Thanks. Nice to know its not an uncommon problem. I am aware that I have weight shift problems as well. Mostly noticed when the disc goes straight up at release. I think I just need to slow everything down...thanks for getting back to me!
Yeah, Danny Lindahl says "Slow is smooth and smooth is far." It's great advice. Your power is going to come from the disc ripping out at the hit point. That's where you want all of your power to be. Go through your x-step smoothly and add power at the end.
I will be on this once I can get some space.
Excellent.
+Timothy McClory Thanks!
The weather was above 40 today, which is warm for here so I went out and found my disc and played a round. I found that on almost every drive I was throwing an anhyzer when I didn't intend to. I was trying to figure out if it was my arm angle, my wrist angle or what the deal was. It ended up being a frustrating round. I was purposely throwing slower discs because I had noted this problem recently. My fast discs mask the problem. Any thoughts on what could be causing it? I'm willing to wait if ya want to make a video on it. ;-)
Lift your elbow up. If you dropp your elbow, you are throwing a blowing anhyzer.
+Javaman92 It could be your wrist angle. Without seeing a video of it, it's hard to tell. It could also be that you're pulling your arm though on an arc.
I'm going through the same thing myself. My power is going up, and it is hard to commit to it, so I still (I think) address the pad and target as if the disc it going to come out early and go short left. Like a slicer that hits to the left. If I get into it, it annies, stays low, and drifts right. I need to commit to the shot and mean to throw it that way.
Two things I did and am doing. First, I don't mind buying discs. I'm trying out Wraiths and Orcs and a Krait, which are pretty overstable in the Pro and Gstar plastics. My Gstar Beast is the flippiest disc I throw now - I have to be careful with it but it is also my longest. For some reason I am driving most consistently with a Gstar Firebird. I can laser it pretty straight, and even flex it a bit, before it gives in and finishes hard left. Can't get a whole lot of distance with the Firebird. Discs get worn out, sometimes much quicker than you think they should. I have a Destroyer in the bag that I dare you to annie. You might need some new discs.
More importantly, I can begin to be trusted to throw a hyzer. That's more difficult than one might think - I've trained myself to throw flat to slightly annie for years to compensate for lack of power. Throwing an intentional hyzer now invites grip lock and other timing and aiming issues. It's harder to get that whip action and snap out of the fingers.
Went out with some friends and threw drivers back and forth at lunch today. I'll just work it out, and I'm not compromising on my power, so I can only keep tweaking and practicing.
+Geoff Graham What are you doing to get your disc on the hyzer angle? Instead of putting my wrist and disc on a hyzer, I bent my body over the disc on the pull through, putting my shot on a hyzer. It ends up being much more consistent for me.
Sure. Slowly. I also have to unlearn snapping it downwards, releasing on an annie. I'm prone to pulling over the top of the disc at release. Which might be okay if I can learn to lean forward a bit. Practice is the only way to work through it.
Great video. I’m having a major issue with late release or crazy anny release (I kept a D1 on an anny line for 300+/- ft). Any suggestions on how to help with that?
+Alexander Rhodes Your late release is likely to do with rounding your arm in your pull through. If you don't bend the elbow before the shoulders rotate forward, the disc gets stuck behind your nom driving arm, and you're forced to swing it out wide on an arc.
Anhyzer releases can be from throwing with a low elbow or having off axis torque with the wrist on your follow through. Make sure that your arm follows through on the same plane that you're intending to throw on. If you're dropping your arm in your follow through, it could cause anhyzer. Last, the anhyzer release could be a result of over rotation due to incorrect footwork. If you approach the teebox from back right to front left and are still trying to throw straight ahead, it can result in an anhyzer.
BHSDiscGolf time for some field work. You are awesome sir. Thank you for the help in video and in the reply. People like you are why the disc community is second to none.
+Alexander Rhodes Let me know how it goes!
Thoughts from Nate and Paul on the backhand drive and the purpose of the x step.
" ... my whole goal is to turn my hips and shoulders around away from my target to get into that loaded position that I quickly mentioned..."
th-cam.com/video/U0gzNIRxRbY/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the link and further input!
Great video. Going to try this next time I do field work. Where abouts in Alabama are you? I'd love to hear course recommendations as I live in Panama City. Also, I think it's awesome that you and Danny were discussing dialogue. Collaboration!?! That'd be sweet.
+LuckySlydog Yeah, he's got a wealth of knowledge. I think he's in Arkansas, so it'd be tough.
If you come to Mobile, try out Langan Park, the Admiral, and Chickasabogue!
BHSDiscGolf Thx, my gf and I have played Hiller and Daphne. We discovered this wonderful sport 7 months ago and love traveling to play new courses.
+LuckySlydog We have about 12 in the county limits here. Tons of disc golf
I have heard many high ranked players speak of pulling through your core area instead of across the shoulders, saying we are robbing ourselves of power by pulling through using weaker muscles. I notice that I pull through higher than my core, closer to what you suggest here. Your thoughts on pulling through the core area instead?
Also for me, I find trying to practice inside harmful. Like you mentioned in passing at the end of this video, I will hit the wall. So what I find myself doing is checking my swing considerably so as not to hit my hand on something. It took me most of last season to realize that fear had translated into my swing on the course and was hurting me. Last summer I had no excuse for practicing inside instead of outside. I guess I was watching videos and trying to learn.
Overall I thought this was great and I bet it will improve my drive. I plan on hitting the course tomorrow, the sun will be out and it will be warmer about 33 degrees. I suppose I should tape some ribbons on my discs I will be using, we have a good amount of snow out there. lol :-)
+Javaman92 My issue with pulling through the core is that it typically causes me to throw nose up. Schusterick definitely pulls through his core and crushes it. I do believe that you can generate more power that way because you're using more muscle groups, but I'm not mechanically blessed in that area :). For those that are still arming the disc and not incorporating a lot of shoulder turn, I would recommend starting here. Once the timing is down, they should try pulling through their core. I'm a firm believer in starting simple and effective then building from there.
Good luck in the snow!
Schusterick also has long lanky arms and a somewhat bendy body. His shoulders aren't attached like mine. I doubt I will ever throw like him. That's why it's easy to be a McBeth fan. Physically fit, but a pretty regular sized dude. Technically, I could throw like him. Just need to play everyday for a few years and develop a lust to win...
(Great tips btw)
+Geoff Graham Just chip away at it one step at a time. Don't overwhelm yourself with getting perfect form right away. Take one aspect at a time to improve on.
+BHSDiscGolf ain't nobody got time for that man - I'm 52. And first played in the 80s. So, high time to get a move on, skill wise.
I worked at a battery factory, where the lead is pretty heavy, and tore the ligaments at the point of the right shoulder. They jammed a giant needle like a pencil of cortizone right in between the bones there. Three times. That shit still hurts 20 years later.
So I really have no choice but to force myself to get proper rotation, use the body, and just let the arm whip through, without pulling on those weak ass tendons. Or live with 200 foot drives that hurt a lot. My best drivers right now are Firebirds, so I'm sort of overdoing it. I have a DX that's getting too flippy, but have a GStar I can trust not to go right on me.
As I hone my style, I'm reaching back on the x step, not on the plant step. I'm going to try your way a few times. And not only because the timing is simpler, but I'm putting better like that too. My best putting motion is a quick jab spin putt. If I can do it without thinking, I hit a lot of those. When I take my time and aim, make a few pendulum motions, I miss every time. That might be my style, a quick back and forth.
+Geoff Graham You'll find that reachback timing pretty standard when you watch pro videos. Reaching back as your plant foot moves forward then snapping it forward as soon as the plant foot hits will help you get in that rhythm that is familiar in your putt.
Great video brother! You say once you bend your elbow to ease the muscles in your arm but I seem to have to grip it as tight as I can through the rotation to keep from early releasing. Any advice on gripping the disc tight and staying loose in the arm? The two seem like opposites to me. Thanks man!
+josh g Of course! Try gripping with just your thumb and index finger. For me, this allows me to keep a grip on my disc without tensing up the muscles in my forearm. When I grip tight with all 4 fingers and my thumb, I feel my forearm get tense and my elbow doesn't have a lot of give to it. You definitely want to keep a grip on the disc, but you don't want it to rob you of flexibility.
BHSDiscGolf thanks for the reply man I'm going to do some field work tomorrow and see how it goes!
+josh g You're welcome!
Great job love the videos. As a beginner I hear a lot of people talk about rounding does this correct that? Again thank you for producing such an informal video and keep up the good work
+Timothy Rumachik Yes! Rounding occurs when you don't bring the elbow forward. When the elbow is left straight and the shoulders begin to turn, the disc gets trapped behind your body, and you're forced to bring the disc around on a rounded arc.
whenever I throw 1 +400 I get my shoulders into it too early and it always goes far right :(
+Macky D Yeah, that sounds like you aren't activating your elbow to get the disc back on line. Your rotation is good because you're crushing it; you just need to get the disc back on line with that bent elbow.
That +400 is rare (usually 325-375). I believe you are correct sir. Now that I think of it I don't incorporate my elbow much at all. Wish there was no snow so I could go do some fieldwork right now
+Macky D As soon as your plant foot touches, drive that elbow forward as you're turning your shoulder back to perpendicular with the target line. That'll put the disc back close to your body and prevent the errant shots to the right.
Parallel to the target line. Perpendicular would be a right angle from it.
+Dan FitzRandolph Your arm is parallel but your body is facing perpendicular. Sorry if I misspoke.
Thanks
Its complicated....nice job man
+Bobby Swain Thanks. For those still starting out, I figured it would be best to give little checkpoints to reference in their throw to help get that timing down.
Thanks, it all makes even more sens once you understand the weight shift into the brace. This video (th-cam.com/video/D2A7MA1BV0g/w-d-xo.html) has been the best explanation for me, although it comes from baseball, not disc golf. The principals are the same (arm moves with the hip).
+Creative Fly Fishing Nice link! Yeah, the principal is the same between the baseball swing and the backhand. For the longest time I was afraid to let my body propel my arm forward. I thought that if I did, I would have crazy, errant shots.
I watched the video shared here. So we should be incorporating this hip snap shown there into our drive? I'm definitely not doing that now.
+Javaman92 The hips should rotate and snap before the shoulders rotate forward. The hips snapping forward basically falls into phase 4 and 5, where you're bringing the disc back to in front of your chest and continuing to rotate forward to propel the disc.
Javaman92 as far as I understand, that (and the power pocket) is the difference between 300 feet and 400+. And not many really do easily throw 300+ , which tells you how hard it is to figure these things out... But we never give up 🙂
Thank you! I can't wait to practice these things and improve! This coming season is going to be my best ever! :-)
R u still teaching
I'm going to go ahead and challenge what you say about the shoulder propelling the disc in phase 5. I think that is plain wrong. The shoulder should not lead the arm, it's the other way around. The arm should swing out just before the upper body turns toward the target. This is why good throwers (by their own admission) don't look at the flight of disc until it has already ripped out of heir hand. If they did, the shoulder would have opened up too early. The rest of the break down was good though.
I think thats a natural reaction to the elbow bending back to the body as the shoulders are already rotating forward since the reachback. The arm may get ahead of the shoulders, but the shoulders are in a state of rotation way before the arm gets in front of the body.
BHS, love you vids as well as Danny's. I've watched 'most' of the vids out there on backhand form/timing/reachback/pull and as others have stated here - phase 5 is a new one for me as well. Just talking about 'beeing loose' like others do doesn't put it the way you do it! Great job! About your discussion with Danny regarding hip/should timing/order. This clip on Lizotte is pretty clear on how he does it! th-cam.com/video/41oi6CGRtYg/w-d-xo.html
Thanks, Mikael! I recently saw that video of Simon on Reddit. He really gets those hips into his shot, and so does Eagle McMahon.
I keep watching this video and I still can't get it.
Just focus on the movement between the throwing arm and your feet, not the placement of each.
As you're moving your plant foot forward, you should be reaching back with your arm. Once the plant foot hits, you should be at full reachback.
As you pull forward, make sure you get your throwing arm ahead of your non-throwing shoulder so that it doesn't cause rounding.
I hope this helps! I was trying to present something generic, because everybody will have their own style. I wasn't exactly sure how to do that any other way. The core principles are still there regardless of the individual style you put into your throw.
So I've been missing step 4 .. lol
I agree with Danny, shoulder drive like that causes rounding
if Danny likes it then it gotta be good... I like step five not trowing the disc with your arms..
Thanks Steve Lewandowski
I have to agree with Danny below. The purpose of the X-step isn't to engage the hips. Top pros keep their hips parallel to the line during the x-step. As they reach back, and move their plant foot in place, the hips move into position. If you look at many newer players they make a huge turn with their hips very early, and both feet are usually pointing backwards. From their they just spin everything around. If you look at the video below you'll see how Will, Paul, Jeremy, and Dave use their hips. th-cam.com/video/GfjiaZ9DvXQ/w-d-xo.html
I was in for the first minute or so until the Alabama trash can.
=)
+Sarin Highwind haha! Roll Tide!
And GO GATORS
Roll Tide
+Traci Jones Roll Tide!
Dang bro I really Like your vids untill I saw you are a Red Elephant (garbagecanwherebammabelongs)....Hucking Plastic All Day
Haha! Roll Tide!