Design & Development of the 1985/86 Oldsmobile 98/Delta 88 (Incl. Designer John Manoogian Interview)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2024
- Learn more about the design and development of the 1985/86 Oldsmobile 98 and Delta 88: GM's revolutionary C&H bodies, including an interview with designer (and later Cadillac Exterior Studio Director of Design) John Manoogian.
I adore these deep dives with the folks who designed the vehicles. Keep up the good work, Adam.
exactly, this is epic greetings from Finland
These interviews are golden. This history is important and needs to be documented. Thank you for doing this.
Of all the designers you’ve had on your channel, this one was by far the most engaging on an otherwise important but otherwise pedestrian line of family cars. Great work by you both!
I agree!!
I give him alot of credit for putting his hard work and effort into designing these cars and yes they were reliable luxury cars however the bodies were poorly designed which reduced the lifespan of these cars on the road.
My humble respects to Mr. Manoogian, one of GM's best designers of my teen and adult lifetime. I especially liked his work at Pontiac and Cadillac. GM gave him a rusty leaky bucket to carry water with the unfortunate Cimarron, management should be the ones to blame for that debacle. Cant wait to learn more from his time at GM.
Thank you!
@@dznr723 Hey buddy if U can get a 3.6 into ANY J car with a manual trans I'll be at the dealer with my deposit. :-)
@@dznr723 I've always wanted to get into auto design. Was accepted into CLE Institute of Art but decided to go for writing/journalism. Some days I wish I had pursued my design career...I've followed the GM designs and whatnot since the '90s when I was in middle school/high school. I've also thought about these C-bodies whenever I watch a Cohen Brothers film...ja?! :)
Manoogian is so down to earth and open, you should be proud he mentioned watching some of your videos. I wish beltlines would be lower now. I love my SUV but it's like driving a coffin, you need all the electronics and cameras because you can barely see where you're going. His cars were beautiful and had almost 1930's lines, like a 35 Cadillac which had a vertical drop back window.
The other problem with the high beltline is if you are in an emergency situation where you need to climb out the window, it is more difficult to climb through than a low beltline.
Always enjoy the design history....I recall being in Junior High when the enthusiast magazines would publish the design proposals a few years before the cars would go to production. It would be interesting to hear his take on Ford's design direction, starting with the aero T-Birds in 83 and the Taurus Sable in 86. It's interesting to see how two different companies approached the market based on styling and design in the same era.
Jack Telnack would be the man to interview
@@sutherlandA1 Or even Irv Rybicki and Dave McLellan (C4).
What an enjoyable interview with John Manoogian! He has a humor and candor that is so refreshing in the automotive design field. I loved the review of his renderings and explaining all the details. Thank you for giving these incredible masters of industrial design a voice in your videos. Look forward to more talks with him!
He sounds so down to earth; I wish more educators and designers were like this!
I would sincerely like to thank John for the Ninety-Eight. I bought a brand new Ninety-Eight Regency Brougham in 1985 and I enjoyed it immensely! It was always such a pleasure to drive and I really liked that open and airy feeling that it had. That car was a real cruiser!
I have a 1986 Delta 88 and this is one of the big reasons I like it so much - the feeling of the cabin being so open and airy. I hate these coffins they have nowadays that you can barely see out of
What a great career! As an owner of a 2012 CTS Coupe and fellow GM employee just want to say well done!
The overwhelming success of the first generation Seville's vertical backlight was reinforced by the rejection of the 1978 "Aero" Oldsmobile Cutlass and Buick Century. Like John said, this was a lesson GM learned too well. Thank you, Adam. Discussions with designers is wonderful and very informative.
Excellent interview with a very engaging guest.
Thank you so much for this series. These were my favorite cars and it’s so much fun to see them get the recognition they deserve after so many years.
Thank Mr. Manoogian for sharing his experience and insights. After featuring several different designers past and present I'm pleasantly surprised by how much I've learned listening to them.
Any positive learning experience is always worth the time. Many thanks.
What a wonderful interview - the most flowingly conversational one yet. I can’t wait to see and learn more.
Mr. Manoogian did not crow about being the only graduate to get a job in automotive design, but rather expressed honest and sincere regret because of EVERYONE'S hard work. That spoke volumes about him. All good. Thank you , Adam, for bringing us another fascinating and informative glimpse into what was and what might have been as told by those who were there.
John and Adam, you two make such a team, you are such a joy to watch. Information and narration are top notch. Note: You should always wash your car by hand, never-never a car wash.....
Adam it is great to get the inside story about these cars right from the designer very interesting. I like what he said about having to wash a car to notice all the design features so true.
He’s seems like an awesome guy to talk cars with he’s definitely made his mark in the auto biz great content💯
Damn Adam. You have some connections.
WOW - this is one of the GM GODS - who else was Smiling the entire interview??
I relish watching these interviews with John and Wayne as they geek out on the intricacies of wheel arches and office intrigue.
✨❤️✨
Really enjoy hearing the thoughts of a body designer. So unique and so interesting to hear his background experience. Thanks Adam and John for sharing.
I love these designers. John is super sharp and obviously a very talented stylist. Some of the concept photos definitely foreshadow elements of the early 90s models. The second one with the lower grill gives me some hints of then contemporary Camaros. I also find it fascinating how large the rims and tiny the sidewalls were in the concepts. It might've taken twenty-thirty years, but we definitely have similar tire setups now. Overall, those concepts are super gorgeous and I'd definitely be decorating my house with these!
Mr Manoogian did a lot of amazing work during his career. That second gen CTS Coupe is my vote for the most attractive car built in this century. I know he's probably not the proudest of some of those 80s designs, but knowing what he had to work with, I think he did an excellent job.
Also, on the lines of how GM overutilized the vertical d-line, it's worth noting that beginning in the mid 80s, ford regularly put different rooflines on their otherwise similar ford and mercury models, probably purposely to avoid getting the models mixed up. Best example would have to be the 83 and later cougar and tbird.
Thank you for the comments!
I see the large rim/tiny sidewall trend as a minus. My mom is always banging up her expensive aluminum wheels. Over time these will corrode due to road salt and the scuffed rims will look even worse.
Another home run! I used to read Collectible Automobile a couple of decades ago and one of my 'first article' preferences in each issue was the interviews with stylists & designers. Adam, don't know how you're doing it here but these are indeed about my favorite of your videos. Thanks so much!
My dad bought a 1985 Olds 98 Regency Brougham brand new off the showroom floor. It was a nice car and I thought it was well made, the body seemed well put together and it never rattled or creaked. He bought it because it seems to edge out other brands with more innovation such as being front wheel drive and a V6 with better fuel economy - it seemed more up to date or modern. It was a nice car with plenty of luxury and amenities and yes the engine did run a little (very little) rough but nothing really annoying or bothersome and the front wheel drive was different in feel through the steering wheel. He never had a problem with it and traded in on a brand new 1991 Olds 98. I wish he had let me know cause I would have bought it from him, it only had 30K mile on it.
Great interview, really enjoyed that. The GM cars of that era had very open, roomy, airy and comfortable interiors, and their exteriors were clean and attractive too. None of the current models (from GM, or for that matter any manufacturer) are as attractive, and indeed most of them are utterly hideous. But that seems to be an industry-wide malaise, designers slathering on more and more details, with conflicting body lines, fake vents, hugely oversized grills etc. And the ridiculously high belt lines, so the bottom of the window is in line with your jawline! Its been a really long time since I saw a new car, and said to myself "Man, what an attractive car". Virtually everything on the road today makes me believe that current designers must have white canes and seeing eye dogs. I'd like to return to Mr. Manoogian's era of design.
Agree with your comment, but there is one modern car I find attractive: Volvo S90.
The new Chargers have an attractive clean, classic look.
@@bactanite Yes they do, but I prefer front drive.
Man if that isnt the truth. I can think of about 30 of the cars from the 80s that I like, a couple from the 90s, and looking at what's made now, really only 1 car that I like the styling. Really used to like all the GMs now basically none. Loved most of the fords, now only the mustang. Same with Chrysler. Imo Honda has fallen the furthest. 80s and early 90s honda designs were clean, crisp, and had such hondaness to them. Lately the HRV was closest, but the just released new one is gross now too.
Nothing made anymore has any class, distinction, beauty, or presence. All seem angry, gaudy, and basically cartoonish. Very little I see do I say man I'd be proud to own that! Let's not even discuss the cramped, dark, dingy interiors with HUGE consoles where no matter how big the car is, the driver is in a small little cocoon. Ok rant over for now
I have never seen a channel like this with such in-depth information. Thank you thank you! It was a complete joy to listen to this interview and get information first hand rather than a recounting of historical events from a third party.
..John is a treat to listen to...thanks.....
I recall a story where someone made the accusation that the Seville backlight was lifted off the Volvo 146... and Bill Mitchell responded "please, we lifted it off the Rolls Royce Silver Shadow."
To John's part about washing our car by hand, architecture professors are famous for imploring young students of the discipline to not judge a building from photographs... "a cathedral must be experienced in person."
Magnificent interviews -- these two have obviously endeared themselves to each other.
What an absolute treasure to have this interview and with the sketches!
Adam. I enjoy the content of your videos so much! The historical information you are providing is priceless. The individuals from the automotive industry you are interviewing and bringing before us is a wonderful treasure (gift)to anyone who is an automotive enthusiast. Thank you so much!!
Very true what John said about the body sculpture. My dad worked at the GM assembly plant in Detroit starting from the late 1940's. We have many pictures of dad next to hundreds of Bel Aire's, Impalas etc... just fished waiting to be shipped via train. I always noticed the shapes and reflections when the sun would hit a certain angle. I had a 1967 Pontiac LeMans and sure enough the belt line and that GM coke bottle design was evident on all divisions! Just the best design of that era. Ford and to a lesser extent had great looking cars yet I always liked the GM design more!
Wonderful video with priceless content that can not be found anywhere else. Keep up the amazing work Adam!! I'm so happy that we are getting some of these guys on here from the 70's and 80's design teams. Imagine how neat it'd of been to of gotten the stories from the 1959 Cadillac design guys....At least you are getting these 70's and 80's guys in....
Thank you and Thank you to Mr. Manoogian!!!
You find the best people. True industry legends. I love this channel
Adam, you are a living legend with these classic automobiles...
These interviews are great!
This is a most interesting and illuminating discussion, and Mr Manoogian is a tremendously talented, articulate and engaging gentleman. Well done.
I love these discussions with John Manooigian. The easy going conversation and the comfort of y’all’s relationship shine through with the subtle teasing. John is endearing with his self deprecating attitude even though we as viewers can easily discern he is a deservedly respected and supremely knowledgeable designer. These conversations remind me of folks “interviewing” the wonderful Bob Lutz. I could never get enough of eavesdropping in on those interviews and I feel the same warm joy listening in to these talks with John Manooigian. (And I am jealous as he had the career I wanted as a boy!). Please, if possible, have more of these videos with Mr. Manoogian - pure gold!
Great video! It was so cool to see the art work
I saw several different models in John's sketches. The second to last front end rendering very much reminded me of the Buick Riviera of that era. Also, sort of mid stream when John was referencing the 88s and 98s rear end I saw the taillights and trunk rear edge of the 98 from the previous I guess 1983 & '84 model years. One of those front end drawings seemed to pick up from the 1971 plus era Olds Toronado. VERY interesting discussion. It sounds like John has a "nuts & bolts" derived take on things whereas your buddy Mark seems to be coming more from an art & feely direction if that makes ANY sense.
Makes a lot of sense. I share your sentiment.
Adam, thanks for interview, what a compact car design class room, having the Chief of that job himself telling the whole story about the big effort GM had to develop to keep on in business. That vertical back line he`d expose was one of the classical features, more visible one in my former Celebrity ride, people just admired it. For my opinion, those A, C, H front wheel drive GM cars were amazing, well made, very honest job, good looking, the perfect size for each one, and as I told you some weeks ago, I`love the overall visibilty and easy driving in any situation, traffic or highway mode as well. Thanks once again, and the sketches were the highest point of this interview.
John's comment about washing your car by hand is so true. When I was washing my ELR by hand, I saw so many interesting shapes that I hadn't noticed before. There are so many Cadillac V references in that body!
Excellent again. Both Adam's and the maroon 98 are sure beautiful cars looking at them 30 years later. The c platform has sure aged very very well.
Love these videos with the geniuses behind the vehicles designs. You gotta get that CTS Coupe in there and the design stories behind that generation. Love em, own several! But i absolutely love your videos. Keep em coming! More GM history!
I owned a 1986 olds 88 and it was probably the perfect family car. Good exterior size, it was almost the same size as my sister's 1990 Mercury Sable, but it was more comfortable, better ride, better handling, better acceleration and more interior space and more trunk space.
Fantastic video ! It was awesome watching and listening to someone who was so integral in the design of these superb autos, as well as many other models as well. It's very inspirational listening to him speak so candidly and fondly of what was no doubt and exciting and amazing career!
I always loved the B and C-body cars. The downsized 1985 models went a bit too far IMO and many buyers were turned off and went to Ford and Lincoln, especially made public by the cover of Fortune magazine with too many models with the same vertical backlight. The 2 door 1986 Delta and LeSabre finally strayed from that but it tool until 1991 to correct the too small look-alike C-body sedan cars and made them larger with more distinct styling. Very interesting information on these cars
Awesome vid thanks Adam! Id like to hear what his reaction to the 86 Taurus was. Like I said overnight it made the whole gm lineup (chryslers too to a lesser extent) look antiquated.
These are my favourite GM cars of all time. Big on the inside, not too big on the outside. Great visibility. Classy styling without being old fashioned. Perfect family sedans.
Welcome back to the channel John! 😁
What a privilege to hear from such an experienced and engaging designer - wonderful. You interviewed him brilliantly - thank you!
I appreciate learning everything about these models and the work that went into them. Although growing up with a 83 Olds 98 I couldn’t help but look at the new post 85 models and think wow look at the fwd junk they’re trying to peddle now as 98. This interview has given more insight that maybe the public was not getting back then.
Love these interviews. So insightful and interesting. I grew up in the 80s/90s so I really appreciates this interview. And I miss the low belt lines of the 80s as I find todays car too claustrophobic.
John's a champ! Thoroughly enjoyed this, thanks. Part 2 should be great!
I could listen to y'all all day long!
What an interesting fellow indeed. Would love to hear his commentary/opinions on some of the crazy car designs of today.
Cool interview! My family enjoyed our '86 Delta 88 during the early '90s. Great commuter and road trip car.
Fascinating interview. Thanks!
I’ve always believed what John says about washing your car by hand. It’s been kind of a ritual with me, when I get a new car, to hand wash and get a more intimate familiarity with the shapes and subtleties in a way you can’t see with your eyes. Yes, I’m weird like that but I love cars.
Fascinating! Can't wait for the next one.
Incredible a video where a great designer shows yours design, fantastic drawings.
Adam thank you first for the video! It was nice to see Mr. Manoogian. I own a 1996 Oldsmobile 98 and a 1992 Oldsmobile Toronado. I liked hearing about the design and hearing about 98, 88, and Toronado too. I liked his concepts with the skirted rear wheels on the Ninety Eight. All of them would have made great Ninety Eight and Eighty Eight for the 1990's. I am thankful GM did upsize the cars in 1991 and 1992. He is also correct about the interior room too. I am a huge fan of that generation of Ninety Eight shared in the video that was the last full sized rear drive model the 1983-1984 model. I look forward to more of his interview. I liked what he had to say about car design as a profession and other things. Thank you.
Thank you Adam & John for your time!
If possible, would love to hear this story for the 79-85 Toro, 80-85 Delta 88 or 80-92 Caddy fullsize
I was a 20 years old when these came out . I was a young sales rep at an olds dealer in Delray Beach FL . We where very surprised by how well these where designed . Very few problems from the start . Other than a stalling issue at speed they where great . Smooth controlled ride and a strong 27 mpg .
Amazing video! I’m researching the 87 delta 88 that I just purchased from a 1 owner. That babied it and has 100 thousand original miles. And it’s mint. So I’m appreciating even more now thanks to this video. 😊
Thank you Adam for bringing men like Mr. Manoogian to the attention of your viewers. Fascinating insight into the automotive industry.
Hoping that viewers will get a full segment on the E/K cars including the Allante’ that John mentioned to understand the interplay between GM & Pininfarina designers.
Great interview, thanks to you both; I drove Celicas and Supras during those years but paid for them fixing GM product, cars and trucks. The C and H platfroms were mysterious to diagnose mechanically at first, tapping the ECM with a srewdriver while trundling down the road, or figuring out distributor-less ignition. I am particularly fond of the '87 Le Sabre, beautiful car. No need for anyone to assasinate my comments, simply trying to support the channel.
The cars of my growing up years. Remember them well
Another great interview Adam, much appreciated!
Fantastic interview.
No reason to mea culpa the early models. I would say "magnificent boats" rather than "gigantic boats". Beautiful in design, comfort and engineering.
Simply a wonderful video. A real home run!
Adam, I really do enjoy these in depth interviews so much. John is a pure delight to listen to. I am struck by his sketches and how I can see glimpses of future models in them. I could see some Aurora and the GM10 Cutlass in some of his renderings. Simply fascinating!
Another great interview, Adam, with a guy who’s not only incredibly talented, but self-deprecating as well. He could easily have passed off some of the horrible design decisions that came out of General Motors but he owns them and takes personal responsibility - even though his hands were tied & he was forced to work within (very) specific engineering parameters.
That’s character.
Fabulous that there’s yet again one of the people behind the cars given airtime to tell us how Italy came together. And no - we won’t hold the Cimarron against him.
The drawing of the delta 88 proposal near the end of the video looks a lot like cadillac's new for 1992 eldorado. beautiful cars!
Thank you for this wonderful interview and for Mr. Manoogian being willing to share his time and experience. I do have a question. I have never understood why GM decided to fight the European imports which were RWD with FWD. I always thought the 88 and 98 were on the same platform being that they were so similar. Why didn't GM decide to make the ones they wanted to compete against the European bands on a RWD platform and the other on a FWD that way they could compete directly in both markets as opposed to doubling down in just FWD with the offerings being practically identical?
Fwd was seen as the way to get the desired packaging and space. Remember, these are 6 passenger cars. The Euro cars were not. The main goal was to keep the cabin roomy and fwd was seen as a way to accomplish that + give customers excellent traction in bad weather, which small, light RWD cars just cant do.
Adam....I'm almost breathless watching this episode. I have been an auto lover for as long as I can remember....like 3 or 4 years old. But not just a "car guy" but I love everything about the vehicle and the industry down to the manufacturing, marketing, design, and distribution and yes.....even the finance history. I generally run into people that are primarily excited about the "surface" of the vehicle and perhaps the engine specs but not the million other details or the history behind it. I also tend to love the "odd" or perhaps not odd but less popular vehicles from a collectability perspective, meaning everyone loves a Mustang, Corvette, Camaro, etc. but then here I am going nuts over the specs, history, and tradition over something like a 1977 Ford LTD Country Squire with a 460 and upgraded interior or let's say a 1978 Olds Toronado XS Brougham w/with the wrap around rear deck window and chiseled features with pillow interior. I'm even fascinated with the industry leaders or captains and their personal lives. The interviews with the history behind them are absolutely fascinating. I'm now 60 and I have read a thousand books about the industry over my life time. I thought I was the only person that was so obsessed with all of this and it's nice to know that I'm not. Thank you so much for creating your channel and capturing all of this. Absolutely wonderful.
Awesome. Thx.
The C&H cars with the 3800 were some of GMs best quality cars in my opinion. My dad was a GM engineer, so we went through quite a few cars, but we had a ‘89 or ‘90 Eighty-Eight for a couple years. Some of my earliest automotive memories were from a back-seat perspective of that car. Great interview John. Would also like to hear about the “wide-track” Grand Prix W-bodies, which were tremendously popular in my area of Michigan at that time.
Dude the 80s night rider aesthetic is sooo cool
My first car was an 86 olds delta 98.. til this day still my fav car, thx 4 designing something i love so much
Great video, guys!
Awesome presentation of what was and how it became to be!!!
Chrysler also had the vertical backlight on many of their cars in the '80s and '90s: Dodge Dynasty/Chrysler New Yorker, Chrysler Imperial, Dodge Spirit/Plymouth Acclaim, Chrysler LHS, etc.
Estórias muito interessantes, sempre tive curiosidade de saber como os designers chegaram a forma final dos carros.
Muito interessante.
Muito obrigado por compartilhar!
Nota 10.
De nada. Obrigado!
Adam, how about a video comparing the GM C&H platform to Chryslers K-Platform. They were both big steps for both companies. John hit the nail on the head with the CTS.
This is important, archival stuff. Fantastic.
So cool you can get John and these guys to come on the channel...as I've stated before my first car and really my first love was my 1999 Old Ninety Eight. Loved everything about that car from the way it looked to the way it rode and drove...needless to say this video definitely peaked my interest as a result! Can't wait to see more with John
Thank you to John Manoogian for designing the 1985 Park Avenue that my mother drove herself to the hospital in when she was in labor with me in 1987. Later became my second car in 2004, regretfully gave the car to someone else while it still had plenty of life left in 2006.
I had no idea that my very first car, a 1985 Olds Ninety Eight Regency Coupe (parents hand-me down), and my current 2012 Cadillac CTS-V coupe both were influenced by Mr. Manoogian! The Ninety Eight was my inspiration in buying my CTS-V.
John Manoogian is undoubtedly the Harley Earl for GM in the years and decades immediately prior to the bankruptcy travesty that killed several great GM brands. He did a great job with the resources he was given.
Love when you talk with the engineers or designers, FORD GUY HERE BUT I DID ADMIRE THESE CARS.
Remember the early sketches with the c pillar being so vertical. So disappointed at a kid, but realize the inertia in middle america wanted to keep this look going. These cars were bridges from the 1960’s to the modern era for the suburban folks. Hated these cars, but hearing the interview makes the struggle and the parameters the designers went through seem so real.
I saw a beautiful example of the car in the thumbnail at a car show last week. Same color and everything! It was pristine, abd looked like a super nice car to own in that condition
My dad bought a new 85 Olds 98 in blue. That velvety cloth was supple and had a kind of rubbery feel. I drove it from Florida to Chicago and encountered the worst thunderstorm I’ve ever driven in. Had to follow a truck one foot behind as lightning flashed lights a strobe light. The engine was deceptively strong as my dad actually got chased by some crazy and the engine really performed at higher speeds. The outer door handle feel was solid. And of course the old Freon A/C blew cold as ice.
I vacationed to Minnesota in September 1986 and requested a Delta 88 rental. It had the comfortable blue velour interior. At the end of my trip I saw a new 1987 Oldsmobile Delta 88 on display at the Minneapolis airport. I noticed the one piece (still glass!) halogen headlamps. That was the summer of Richard Marx music (fantastic first CD) and Billy Joel's 'The Bridge' CD with the song "A Matter of Trust".
The Delta 88 was a beautiful redesign…I remember seeing my first one on the NYS Thruway back in the day & I did a double take…That’s when you know it’s a home run…
Bought an '86 Regency Brougham back in 1994, and I absolutely LOVED that car. It had a lovely tri-tone seatbelt chime I adored hearing at start-up, and the interior was pristine. Aside from an '88 Park Avenue I had, the Regency was the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned.
Attractive, well-balanced design. Interiors are welcoming, bright, and comfortable. I think GM would have huge hits re-releasing these designs.
Nobody buys cars anymore...
@@GMCJay_lly not everyone wants to drive a suv box...no styling, the all look the same no matter who made them....speaks volumes of the people buying them...all available in white, black, or silver...boring
Respectfully disagree. This era of 88's and 98's were disappointing.
@@GMCJay_lly $7 gallon of gas will move people from trucks and SUVs pretty quickly.
@@tomwesley7884 Oldsmobile's sales over the medium-term and eventual failure support your position.
This was a great interview! It's so neat to hear the details of the cars I grew up with.