Commenting twice because watching all the train stations we lost broke my heart. We lost so much in the 1960s and 1970s in terms of passenger rail. One you didn't mention was Columbus Union Station in Columbus Ohio. There was a ton of people in 1976 trying to save the Gothic building built in 1896 (it was the oldest union station in the nation). In the middle of the night on a Saturday they began to demolish it to prevent the courts from being able to stop them. By the time an injunction was made there was only an arch remaining that you can visit in a park located far from where it used to stand. A convention center sits where a train station once stood and now as a slap in the face the convention center is excited to be able to maybe host trains again. Hopefully we can get the Rio Grande Depot her tracks back and eventually get two or three Amtrak routes.
That is a truly sad tale. I agree - most people just don't realize what was lost, and so can't be bothered to care. I'm glad you liked that segment - I was tempted to cut it so many times, but now I'm glad I didn't!
Fantastic! Broke my heart when you included the destruction of the train station in Bangor, Maine. That was a such a disaster and it was REPLACED by a fucking strip mall. Urban renewal at its WORST.
That's a terrible story. Worse still is that so many communities around the country have similar stories. I considered making a super-cut of all the depots I didn't have time to add into the montage, but it was too depressing. Hopefully Part III will be a little more cheerful!
I am so happy this video came out! Been waiting a while for it and am so happy to finally learn the second half of this history of the Depot that deserved to have trains arriving and departing from it once again. I love that you mentioned the trolleys and interurbans, its funny how many people tell me that we cant have those things because we are too far west. Well we had them then we ripped them out and now we are paying the price. Regrettably we gave the ICC too much power with our private companies, we either should have deregulated earlier or we should’ve nationalized everything. (I know radical). Once again, such an educational video, I learned so much about this great station. Here’s hoping our city, state, and federal governments can agree that the Rio Grande Plan is the future of Utah transportation.
And its really great that they've been taking such good care of it since then! By now, they've owned it for almost as long as the D&RGW did, and by all accounts they are treating it much better than the railroad company ever did. Once the current seismic upgrades are complete, the building should be ready to operate for another 120+ years, this time hopefully as a working train station again!
Amazing historical context. Never heard of defense through decentralization. We'll preemptively destroy our own cities so the enemy has nothing to target!
Very well done. Thank you! Something occurred to me while watching this. We often focus on technical aspects when comparing transportation alternatives. (Both prospectively and retrospectively.) And from that perspective, trains have a lot going for them. But what we haven't figured out yet, I think, is the right way to regulate and fund them. How do we encourage their use without encouraging abuse? How do we encourage investment rather than rent seeking? I have a feeling that it isn't a simple matter of private versus public ownership, but rather a matter of correct incentives and regulation. I also expect that the rest of the world has a lot to teach us in that regard. (Is that what part three will be about? 😉)
Those are the very deep and very important questions. Funding for transportation has historically been divided by mode - i.e., some decision maker decides to spend X on trains and Y on roads, and Z on airports, which is inherently unfair. In the future, I think a "receipt" system of funding will become more feasible, where transportation providers report how many people they moved, how far, how fast - and from there receive a fixed amount of compensation regardless of which mode was used. There is a lot to work through in order to establish a system like that (people don't like being tracked, for example), but I think the total cost savings would be enormous. Perhaps I'll touch on that in PT 3, but I'm still recovering from 5 hrs of sleep per night for the last 3 weeks in order to finish PT 2.... so we'll see...
I agree the station sign needs more added eventually.. Utah Transit Authority would be good or maybe even Salt Lake City Station or Central or something like that..
My dad keeps pestering me to call the station the Rio Grande Central, after the famous Grand Central in NYC. Perhaps there is a way to add just 'Central Station' below the Rio Grande, rather than the name of any specific rail service provider. Thankfully I only make suggestions, not decisions!
What do you think of arguments based on subsidy per passenger mile that conclude that rail already is subsidized more than highways? (Example: "Transport Costs & Subsidies by Mode" by the Urban Reform Institute). I feel like I am missing something.
@odess4sd4d Usually studies that validate cars are drawing too narrow boundaries around what they are attempting to study. For example, parking lots at the endpoints of a highway trip are not considered, since those are paid for by the property owners. But the number of parking stalls is mandated by parking minimum requirements. I'd be curious to see what is or is not included in that study.
Can’t wait for part 3.
Christian, this is such a treasure. Well done! Enjoyed it, and appreciate your time and efforts producing it. Looking forward to volume three.
Thank you! Hopefully I can finish Part 3 faster than Part 2, but no guarantees....
Fantastic video, I’m rooting for you guys
This is a great video! Very in depth but super easy to understand. You’re doing great work to educate and make Utah better, keep it up!
Thank you!
Commenting twice because watching all the train stations we lost broke my heart. We lost so much in the 1960s and 1970s in terms of passenger rail. One you didn't mention was Columbus Union Station in Columbus Ohio. There was a ton of people in 1976 trying to save the Gothic building built in 1896 (it was the oldest union station in the nation). In the middle of the night on a Saturday they began to demolish it to prevent the courts from being able to stop them. By the time an injunction was made there was only an arch remaining that you can visit in a park located far from where it used to stand. A convention center sits where a train station once stood and now as a slap in the face the convention center is excited to be able to maybe host trains again. Hopefully we can get the Rio Grande Depot her tracks back and eventually get two or three Amtrak routes.
That is a truly sad tale. I agree - most people just don't realize what was lost, and so can't be bothered to care. I'm glad you liked that segment - I was tempted to cut it so many times, but now I'm glad I didn't!
Fantastic! Broke my heart when you included the destruction of the train station in Bangor, Maine. That was a such a disaster and it was REPLACED by a fucking strip mall. Urban renewal at its WORST.
That's a terrible story. Worse still is that so many communities around the country have similar stories. I considered making a super-cut of all the depots I didn't have time to add into the montage, but it was too depressing. Hopefully Part III will be a little more cheerful!
As always, excellent video
Thank you, sir! I am happy you enjoyed it!
I am so happy this video came out! Been waiting a while for it and am so happy to finally learn the second half of this history of the Depot that deserved to have trains arriving and departing from it once again. I love that you mentioned the trolleys and interurbans, its funny how many people tell me that we cant have those things because we are too far west. Well we had them then we ripped them out and now we are paying the price. Regrettably we gave the ICC too much power with our private companies, we either should have deregulated earlier or we should’ve nationalized everything. (I know radical).
Once again, such an educational video, I learned so much about this great station. Here’s hoping our city, state, and federal governments can agree that the Rio Grande Plan is the future of Utah transportation.
It’s really great that the State Historical Society took ownership of the depot, otherwise we might not have it today
And its really great that they've been taking such good care of it since then! By now, they've owned it for almost as long as the D&RGW did, and by all accounts they are treating it much better than the railroad company ever did. Once the current seismic upgrades are complete, the building should be ready to operate for another 120+ years, this time hopefully as a working train station again!
Amazing historical context. Never heard of defense through decentralization. We'll preemptively destroy our own cities so the enemy has nothing to target!
Umm. Sorry to be pedantic, but at 18:14, shouldn't that be "1%"?
@@lloydbrown3825 You are correct - you get a gold star!
Very well done. Thank you!
Something occurred to me while watching this. We often focus on technical aspects when comparing transportation alternatives. (Both prospectively and retrospectively.) And from that perspective, trains have a lot going for them. But what we haven't figured out yet, I think, is the right way to regulate and fund them. How do we encourage their use without encouraging abuse? How do we encourage investment rather than rent seeking? I have a feeling that it isn't a simple matter of private versus public ownership, but rather a matter of correct incentives and regulation. I also expect that the rest of the world has a lot to teach us in that regard. (Is that what part three will be about? 😉)
Those are the very deep and very important questions. Funding for transportation has historically been divided by mode - i.e., some decision maker decides to spend X on trains and Y on roads, and Z on airports, which is inherently unfair. In the future, I think a "receipt" system of funding will become more feasible, where transportation providers report how many people they moved, how far, how fast - and from there receive a fixed amount of compensation regardless of which mode was used. There is a lot to work through in order to establish a system like that (people don't like being tracked, for example), but I think the total cost savings would be enormous. Perhaps I'll touch on that in PT 3, but I'm still recovering from 5 hrs of sleep per night for the last 3 weeks in order to finish PT 2.... so we'll see...
I agree the station sign needs more added eventually.. Utah Transit Authority would be good or maybe even Salt Lake City Station or Central or something like that..
Adding something more would be good maybe even Amtrak if they get a state sponsored system!
My dad keeps pestering me to call the station the Rio Grande Central, after the famous Grand Central in NYC. Perhaps there is a way to add just 'Central Station' below the Rio Grande, rather than the name of any specific rail service provider. Thankfully I only make suggestions, not decisions!
Bring the "Western Pacific" sign back to de Salt Lake Depot at the bottom of the "Rio Grande"!
What do you think of arguments based on subsidy per passenger mile that conclude that rail already is subsidized more than highways? (Example: "Transport Costs & Subsidies by Mode" by the Urban Reform Institute). I feel like I am missing something.
@odess4sd4d Usually studies that validate cars are drawing too narrow boundaries around what they are attempting to study. For example, parking lots at the endpoints of a highway trip are not considered, since those are paid for by the property owners. But the number of parking stalls is mandated by parking minimum requirements.
I'd be curious to see what is or is not included in that study.