Why The Ships Are So Old In Star Citizen | Star Citizen Lore
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- In this episode of Galactic Historian, Paul explains the tragic past of AI in the Star Citizen Lore. How it's many failings caused tech to stagnate and keep humanity back several hundred years.
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Before anyone says anything, no for some reason I can't say nominal like a normal human.
Sounded norminal enough to me ;) Great vid, subbed.
Suspicious... normal human? The Messers will need you to identify some stoplights in a series of pictures. You find a turtle on its back in the desert. You just keep looking at it as it struggles to right itself, the sun beating down...
It'd be crazy to run into some sort of AI storylines outside of UEE jurisdiction. Rogue settlements that experimented and either succeeded or perished or both simultaniously
Artemis is a possible one
I'd like this, a nul sec system with AI defence systems working perfectly. and a bunch of genius science and tech people just relaxing on a resort world.
The Vanduul are working under Artemis.
Calling it now.
4:00 This sounds like a parameter problem. The A.I. was told to push Mars's atmosphere to a certain point, not to keep it there afterward.
So it made an unstable system that could hold riiiight until the project 'succeeded' and then collapse into cascading death.
Perfect thank you
“Keep it simple, keep it dumb, else you end up under Skynet’s thumb”
-Isaac Arthur on AI
Is this why we don't have night vision in ships or auto-dimming canopies when looking at the sun?
Naw that's just the game not being finished.
@@TheAstroHistorian this made me laugh for some reason
I think they should still have more primitive robots running around even without advanced AI. Like transport bots and stuff.
Area 18, New Babbage and Orison all have transportation drones known as automated trams. you step onto them to get around those locations.
Makes total sense! The way you set up the lecture bounds in the begining was great. It's almost like you have a history degree. ;)
I like how its not some crazy robot war, just programs glitching.
computer software ALWAYS has that. as does wetware (a.k.a biological brains).
Addison can't possibly get legislation passed soon enough, the people of Stanton want their server blades *meow*!
IMO, they had to come up with some rational explanation why powerful AI doesn't exist 1000 years in the future.
Almost every science fiction franchise (game, novel, movie, TV show) had to invent some mechanism (such as war, economic collapse, etc.) to explain why their far future civilization seems so similar to our own but with rockets and flying cars, lol.
AI is sketchy at best in Star Citizen,and an unknown factor at worst. The current Imperator wants to lift the fear and stigma against AI though so it's yet to be seen if we'll get more than basic control protocols(what runs Microtechs factory,essentially a logistics chat bot)
EDIT: I seen that Historian covered what I wrote,so I deleted it. Dont mind me.
Can you imagine how un fun star citizen or any game would be if all the stuff was run by ai and ai did it far better. We’d be a back story in a world about ai. It could be done. But it may not be as fun as humans being important. I think robots / servants / ai blades etc all have a place, limited ai encounters such as in blade runner would work well.
"ships designed hundreds of years ago, yet still in service!" Sounds like my truck haha. I'll just have to swap a hydrogen power-plant in it, to keep pace with the modern cars.
It's a joke, but the horrible AI in lore was likely created by RSI and its foundations created by the in-game Chris Roberts. I'm just saying ...
The irony is the AI in lore is as glitchy as the AI in game
He coded the physics...
I could see a storyline where Addison get AI cleared again and down the road when it all goes wrong we get an event where the players must face a choice to either unite to stop it or maybe join some faction helping it.
I wonder if any of the alien races have incorporated AI in their society, or have everyone had the same experiences as the humans? (There are no evidence of AI in the alien ships)
If all races, independently comes to the same conclusion about AI, it would indicate that it’s something not safe to meddle with…🤷♂️
I think a storyline set in sol and specifically on Mars about how the UEE was using experimental super AI and covered it up which went rouge and attempted to eradicate all human life from Mars based of previous human history.
I love the story of the Artemis. Except for a few small pieces of the fuselage that looked like they were repairing the ship it was never found. I'm 100% certain that mystery will be solved by players some day when there are more star systems and true Exploration gameplay gets added. One more reason to have at least one Expedition class ship. 😉
Reminds me of the lost colony ship in Freelancer that was found out to have managed to land and start a colony. Who knows, the Artemis might now have humans as AI-Hybrids or Borg like or have a nice society where AI and humans live side by side.
The story of the Artemis is a pretty good one. Can't wait until they sneak that one into the 'Verse somewhere.
This is basically the aviation industry today. Most planes flying today were designed and built in the sixties and seventies. Only the interior avionics are updated
Yeah which is an intentional parallel in the universe of SC. CR is a MAJOR aviation nut, especially history, and in the process of making the universe a lot of real world aviation stories got matted into the lore but just set in a sci-fi setting.
Great video as always, thanks Paul :) o7
This was incredibly awesome. keep on the good work!
Great video, I hope we get to see at some point Star Wars type droids in game
There were early references to some basic drone like bots but nothing sapient like we see in Star Wars.
Well, I am not convinced Janus is responsible for the Artemis incident. Addison should push through some ease to existing restrictions. Looking fwd to t he at Artemis story by the galactic historian!!! Hopefully it will appear sooner than later...
This all seems like it could have been avoided if the programmers set up really simple and obvious fail-safes lol
There is no place for AI in the human empire!
*Lights candles to appease the soul of my engine room*
I think were gonna find some overlord bombers out there still trying to do their mission... xD
but yeah AI is cool and I do think we will hear more about them as the game progress's.
So thats why my turrets dont have a auto mode. Ok Im satisfied with that answer. This question plagued me for a long time.
Looks like humanity didn´t learn anything voting for Addison smh
I think that Jurassic Park had the same problem, over reliance on automation. The AI would be fine as long as you double check it’s work and leave it in a sandbox and not in charge of any real systems. That would at least get development moving, and give mountains of data on why the AI are failing in the first place
I remember a story they had about cyborgs replacing some people covertly. Think it was Banu technology and reminded me of a first try the Cylons had at skin jobs.
Love these lore/history posts.
Great work Paul
Keep the great videos coming! Thank you for the excellent work!!!!!
I know at the moment we dont have answers, but I wonder how the non-human species fared with AI
Agree. This would be a very interesting topic. My guess is that different races would keep their version(s) far away from each other, though, IF they have it.
I feel there's some flaws in their logic. I agree in their decision to not build general AI for human impacted systems or human interacted systems. But I think that the general AI or super AI could be used in the design industry, without causing any negative impact.
You aren't alone in the verse, many people think it's possible but the general public fear and distrust because of the major issues are why it was banned. It's important to remember that AI being unreliable is a plot point not a definitive and was added to explain why we were using people and not robots in our ships. As a result there are those who think AI is fine and those who think it shouldn't be attempted again, that conflict is a major plot point for the game.
Well in the verse it went bad so they have proof of the contrary
Once you create a general or super AI, you can't limit it to a specific thing because it's alive. It's like a person, caged, slaved and forced to do something. Except you gave it internet so it could do its job. Then you're screwed, because it'll use that access to try to liberate itself.
@@pxkqd Great explanation. Thank you
Mother didn't do right by the crew of the Nostromo either.
Here, Here, Paul When can we see your Siminars in "Verse" person, professor?
Terra forming, long term stasis, quantum drives......check, check, check. Slave a couple turrets to the pilot's stick......no way!
That's still coming, don't mistake the games development from the games story.
@@TheAstroHistorian it's not about the game's development, it's about the fact it will require "blades" to link a gun to the pilot. And blade slots will be limited. A modern cell phone has enough computing power to do this yet spaceships with quantum drives aren't sophisticated enough to allow it.
Imagine something being blocked for 500 years. Has anything even remotely like that in RL? Nuclear power maybe?
This is why we have manned turrets.
I'd love to he able to slap in a limited-scope AI, which wouldn't be able to operate weapons, but do other mundane things such as basic autopilot. it'd be nice to tell my future ship's computer to be a dear and keep me skyward while I go and take a leak.
thinking about it some more. I can see several reasons why AI would have regular failures. reasons that might prove extremely hard to fix:
AI is complex: Machine learning algorithms are insanely complicated. and thusly, it's hard to diagnose errors in the actual code you've written to make sure it learns efficiently and properly.
Garbage in, Garbage out: AI has to be trained just like people do. You can turn basically anyone into a sociopathic monster if you give them the 'right' environment for this. The actual training model given to AI today is almost more important then coding the machine learning algorithm itself. It's also why your data is so valuable. because it can be used for this.
It's hard to make a human mind without a human endocrine system: Most of our morals and ethics are an emergent property of biochemistry. biochemistry built on millions of years of evolution for complex life. Biology's been at this a long ass time. And survival of those fit enough to breed is a great method of making well rounded reasonably sane critters if you've got time on your hands.
Anti-singularity people and anti-AI people exist, too: There are people, today, who find the idea of a technological singularity so repugnant that'd willingly sabatoge AI to give it a bad name before folks started thinkin' "beam me up into the SSD, Scotty". Heck, I'm one of them. And there are people that hate *all* AI, on account of it removing human jobs or whatnot. Enough of them are also in the tech field...
Just press c lol
@@TheRealBillix Oh I know what cruise control is. :P It'd be nice for it to follow terrain, or self trim (as my Cutlass likes to randomly point downward whether using mouse or joystick). Never underestimate the game's ability to yeet you into the afterlife if you look away for 3 minutes
Different Universe, but check out the Expeditionary Force Series by Craig Alanson where one of the main characters is a Super AI that's ... well a bit old and forgetful.
Fun read and I do recommend the audio books.
edit: what was I thinking, the AI is a complete asshole!
"Why does AI always Fail? "
"Because you cannot replicate human responses without human emotions, and if you do, you are subject to human faults and fears..."
In the year 2032, when we finally get an expansion for the Star Citizen Persistent Universe MMO, it will be themed around a new wave of AI gone wrong. With the Vanduul no longer posing a threat after their defeat at the hands of the UEE, players will be enlisted to fight in a new war between humanity and a race of artificially intelligent robots. The robotic soldiers driven by the AI will be called "Cylons", and the distributed super AI that guides the skeletal metallic foot soldiers will be called "Skynet".
The only hope for humanity resides in the tactical brilliance and determination of the new leader of the resistance, Elon Conner.
thats the way to make eeveryone jump into a multi crew ships, so the game won't feeling like a first person EVE online, but i don't see why the universe can't employ broad AI, "due to the programmer fault". If the system dosn't work, it won't got the contract in real life, thats why star citizen is still on "pre-alpha" for 10 years, lol.
I've 100% decided that after watching this. I hope someone comes across the Artimis any time after release but, when most star systems known and "unknown"
We have an idea of where it is, and while it technically was Janus's fault for it going off mission it was justified...kinda. Fun fact a Shubin Mining Operation in Stanton, likely Microtech, discovered an engine from the Artemis. Meaning it had traveled there at some point over the last 500 years.
imo, a good mmo, even sandbox, has some major questlines that every player can do (not just say the first to discover), this would make for a good one
Also, if CIG can work a deal with the Traveler tabletop RPG that would be further good fits.
@@TheAstroHistorian So potentially more bits could be found, about maybe? 😁
As a software developer and former tech enthusiast, I think that having no AI in the future is a good decision.
sorry for the bad english...
im from cerman, and typing this 1:30 am on my phone ^^
i would say AI would make a very good villan scenario after the vandul in star citizen, regardles if its made from humans or if it's extrterestial.
for real life terms i think ai shpuld be programmt to do what it should do, it shpuld be learning what to do line a human does, in the meaning it's on an general ai level.
for star citizen how ever i think in corolation with the history in star citizen the new protject will be bustet in fear of the vandul with automaitet infrastructur, manufactoring, maybe hole planet system and its own autonomus fleets to fight the vendul.
well thats the goal.
and now there are two cenario types possible.
in the time bilding out the sytem the ai goes rough and the military has to fight the ai forces because its a threat to humanity.
or scenario two:
(which i would be finde realy interesting)
it works, humanity bilding the firdt autanemus civlisation that's helps us defeat or drive the vandul threat away.
but after the overcoming of the vandul humanity has no need for this new autonemus civilisation and wants to dismatle the fleet.
but the high itelegent ai are at a point where it depleats it's independence from us and wants to be sean as an new official civilisation.
witch brings moral questions about lifefroms, intelegens that could depleat in a war scenario, political and economy themes...
it would be a realy intersting story to tell in game and could tuch some real life moral stuff about ai.
and personöy i would love to see that gameplay which can createt throu a scenario like this!
For now, I'd be happy with a ship AI targeting system that once it locked on a hostile, it would continue to track and fire at the hostile until the target was destroyed without the gunner having to continuously try to aim at the target. Yes, some players may say "where's the fun in that?", but they could always disengage auto targeting and this system would be more inline with what you would expect in the 30th century.
Something that would be really cool is an AI alien species that use swarm tactics or something! it would be even cooler if it turned out that humans made them
see this is why i love cig, they are so invested in the lore they even made the games AI nonexistant aswell! absolutely amazing attention to detail!
Damn I knew I hated the Autopilot Override in my ship with a burning passion for a reason.
First we are alone.
Then we create help.
Then we create our children.
Then we create ourselves.
Then we create that which surpasses us.
Then we are ants in their world.
AI is only as dangerous to us as we are to stand in it's way.
Creating AI is one thing but we as humans need modify ourselves to communicate to the AI on their level or we will fall behind them so we evolve.
Oh, if only there was an actual altar of science that accepted human sacrifice.
i wonder whats with those peeps the Xian don't want we meet...your suggestion was quite...well...interesting.
I think that the synthworld will be completed with the use if AI, and then that same AI will create the cylons, and we will have another alien species that we are at war with.
OK so Kr'thark are the AI colony mission that fell through a time wormhole to millennia ago.
a comment to please our almighty overlord with engagement to feed the algorithm!
Nobody voted for her, cig was so shocked that they couldn't boost her up enough
Horus incident? SOUNDS LIKE HERESY TO ME
I have the theory that the only reason the Mars AI failed was because someone sabotaged it.
Love lore post
thanks for the video
I hope we do not get a SC variant of 'the Borg'... Blame Addison
I say that old messar era ai gone rouge and then become active again would a good idea
Lol
So this is exactly like “name a 80’s sci fy IP?” Lololol
Like the game, but my god lore sucks and is so derivative and boring. Of course AI are to blame, of course AI is “evil”, (40k, elite, terminator, space odyssey, to name a few all same shit over and over again folks, like geez write something new please xD like PLEASE subvert my expectations I beg you! XD) of course tech is “rare” and been stagnation in its development (battletech and elite both same stories, except at least battletech has balls to truly do “lostech”)
Never forget friend asked me about 40k lore, and why couldn’t make new terminator suits. His point like got this entire imperium, all these warriors and forge worlds etc, but no one remembers how to make terminator armour anymore because AI was naughty once in past? It was a huge plot hole in 40k, like a year later did primaris marines and imperium started making new tech again…why? COS THIS TROPE IS SO FING PLAYED OUT AND BORING. XD
I argued with my friend as a fanboy, but he was right, writing like this is lazy af.
Oh like here let guess, the empire is not honestly good in SC And citizenship is a scam to draft people, so idea is the players will form the rebellion in game and fight empire over time? Like stop me if heard this before xD
Sir this is a whammers
very nice
Great video like always. The title though, I mean you got there but for most of the video I thought you messed up the title on accident 😂
Required some set up, with out the context the summary isn't as meaningful
Can you do a deep dive into why it’s just a Verse and not a Universe? I mean what’s all the U stuff that’s missing!?
We spent all our money on internet jpegs.
#AddisonAllDay
Doing the work she was elected for.
I would like to fight some replicators .
So glad you made this video. I've been looking to see if A.I. was ever a thing in lore but couldn't find anything until now, so thank you.
It's very small, like 2 dedicated lore posts and a smattering of references in other lore stories and posts so I understand not finding it.
A perfect AI is bad for gameplay as the AI cuts out player involvement. but a rogue AI is great for gameplay as it gives the player more to do. AI will be introduced, and it will always go rogue.
I call it the Warhammer effect, a way to justify lower tech while concurrently making the technology that people think should exist the enemy. Star Trek did it to with the Borg but it was more tangential.
I see the parallels between the lores AI issues and CIGs own AI issues lol.
Now that we have voted in Imperator Addison, do you think we will see faulty AI in the game as a npc ship or mission?
They have said 100% they are going to add missions around AI.
the artemis sounds like the failed game Hellion lol
Sounds like star citizen is setting up for an AI incident much like the Geth from Mass Effect
It's a major plot point of the verse.
Humans in star citizen must not be as smart as in other sifi worlds because after so many years they still can't get it right with AIs?
It's important to remove 'intelligence' from 'willpower' It's not that AI don't work, it's that every time they build one it has flaws and causes a major catastrophe. The political will of the people and the will of the corporations who foot the bill to pay for these developments isn't strong enough yet to take those risks. Thus it's more that humanity fears AI like they fear what they don't understand.
Because in Concept they were State of the Art.
Funny, a couple of days ago I posted to one of your other videos because the lack of drone companions was a gap I hadn’t seen explained anywhere in lore. I get why CR would think have the equivalent of droids would lead to players playing by themselves, rather than with others but don’t necessarily think it’s that simple.
I think there’s actually a good argument for players to have role/profession based specialized general AI companions, as niche crew-mate professions may not offer the same range of gameplay as being the pilot.
An engineer may have little or nothing to do while booting around the galaxy or chilling in port. During combat they might not be capable of filling their role solo, as you can only repair or replace one component at a time and in doing so can’t also be managing energy routing. Having a helper would allow you to do more when needed and give you something to interact with when not needed. When not an emergency you could run simulations, training your bot to be more efficient and practicing the engineering loop.
As the game continues to grow and be finalized, I hope Chris reconsiders. I think general companion AI done as a subsystem of Blades could help fill in the holes in crew gameplay, giving tasks and meaning to time spent filling roles in other players crew.
@TheAstroPub what would you recommend for someone that wants to learn the entire lore of SC from start to finish? I've watched your beginners videos, but you have so much content after that, it's a little confusing to see where the next step should be. Thanks
If you are watching my videos check out the Lore Citizen podcasts after the initial beginners guides. They are more or less in timeline order and then just browse around the playlist finding what you think is interesting. If you want to learn more on your own the starcitizen.tools website is a great place to go to get a good timeline for context.
@@TheAstroHistorian thank you for the quick reply, I'll do that.
To the AI Bomber... Couldent they put one guy on the Bomber to watch and Rotate them?
The Messers wanted to both a) reduce the troops needed to protect the border, and b) have machines that don't question orders unlike humans, especially as the Messers were brutal dictators who had problems with military elements going rogue later in the Messer era.
I really like your explanation of how old designs are re-released with small improvements given the risks associated with prototyping in space. It makes sense to me given that the ocean is not nearly as hostile as space and yet we see the same hulls being built for decades being fitted with newer gear. As for AI, I think that we still don't understand what is needed to make a general AI tick. This is for the best given our somewhat primitive attitude to intelligence. The last thing anyone needs is a new excuse for slavery.
The day we tackle AI, we need to take baby steps. They should initially be employed in low risk roles where failures can be compared with human performance in the same roles in order to develop an understanding of any differences or lack thereof between AI and human performance before moving on to more risky roles. That way, we avoid turning the teething issues of new tech into a catastrophe that prejudices a generation and can learn as we go.
I love your channel and the lore explanation.. though looking at this critically makes me think this is CIG explaining away pledge store price hikes 😅😅
Could just see it now, flying over arc Corp in a small ship chasing rouge AI to find and "retire" them.
i was actually wondering that
Love this, thanks for the work
Tbh this sounds like a pretty cool way to introduce a rogue AI faction.. as a so go game that's what it feels like is coming now that ai is making a come back
If the AI is somewhat based in machine learning then a “rogue AI” faction would be pretty unlikely… it’s just like having a faction of mutants created by radiation from nuclear war, just the chance for a single individual being mutated in a way that isn’t just outright lethal or crippling is so unlikely that a functional faction of them is simply impossible.
Not to mention, the AI would likely not be able to evolve further or develop any sort of abilities beyond its original task. For example, I don’t think that the bomber AIs would be close enough to some form of independence and organisational ability that they could create or be members of such a rogue AI faction
Cylons and replicators lol!
Great lore breakdown!
Thanks for the great video. A great chance to escape from the problems of the world with a deep dive into the limits of the Verse o7
AI can't be trusted.
Very nice lore episode!
Love the video! what happened to the artemis???
That is a story for another video.
@@TheAstroHistorian
well? where is it?
Thanks for clearing the topic of AI up
Thanks Paul
Great
This one you did very well! Thank you!
Ironic considering the state of AI in the game
Honestly two of these incidents dont make sense at all, planet atmosfere simply cannot colapse within minutes it will take hundreds of thousands years at minimum and situation where you shut down comunication and them act no incoming signal so broadcasting station was destroyed look more like beginer level programing mistake that failure of suposedly advanced ai.
Well I'm no planetary scientist but I don't think it's impossible for an atmosphere to collapse quickly, all it would take is for pressure to drop a tiny bit and it would kill humans instantly. Also that is the bitch of AI, it's only as good as the people programming it. I know many tech bros who swear by new tech being better, I have yet to see software without bugs. Complex software is more prone to it as well. So someone fucking up a comma could cause a whole fuck ton of trouble.
@@TheAstroHistorian To drop pressure even by little bit on planetary level mean that insane amount of gas sudently diapered, which i cant imagine how could hapen, mars lost its atmosphere due to solar wind after losing magnetic field but that taked millions years. To programming mistake I don't know that feels like programming student on highschool would do in his first project.