Time Traveling Bran, Part 3
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ย. 2024
- Happy Day of the Seven!
We continue our analysis of Time Traveling Bran with a at look the nature of time and what fits with A Song of Ice and Fire.
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Game of Thrones is an American fantasy drama television series created for HBO by David Benioff and D. B. Weiss. Based on the fantasy novel series, A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin. A Game of Thrones is one of the most successful television series to ever made and continues to captivate audiences all over the world. The series is set on the fictional continents of Westeros and Essos, and interweaves several plot lines with a large ensemble cast. The first narrative arc follows a civil war among several noble houses for the Iron Throne of the Seven Kingdoms; the second covers the attempts to reclaim the throne by the exiled last scion of the realm's deposed ruling dynasty; the third chronicles the rising threat of the impending winter and the legendary creatures and fierce peoples of the North.
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Let me stop you right there so Tyrion is not only Drogo’s son but also BRAN’s SON?
Which one of these chads gave birth to him though?
The Others take your wild theories, Chad!!
Nonono, Tyrion is Drogos son and Brans Father! Duh
it's really not that crazy bro, the high septon just annulled it.
@@rangarolls6018 Does it matter? What matters is Summerchild was the midwife.
2014 Preston: I'm gonna make some GoT videos, there's some interesting stuff here with the Dornish and the Citadel, and other plot lines.
Nearly 8 years later (without any new content): I'd like to talk to you about the nature of time
Lol I'm fully expecting a video where he goes into depth on string theory at this point.
Yeees
To be fair, while there was no new content there is already a whole metric ass tonne of ASOIAF content both in the central story and in the side tales. You could mine that shit for, well, years
When I read dance with dragons, I got the distinct impression that the time traveling was a feature of the weirwoods. When you become the trees, time works differently for your consciousness because tree consciousness presumably has a different relationship to time than human consciousness. The human relationship to time is a product of the human need to continually overcome obstacles every day to survive. The weirwoods lives in one spot for a million years hardly changing and so the experience of the “present” for a weirwood is a million year period. Thus when you warg into the trees you can experience the past as if it was the present.
If Bran or Jon eventually manage to communicate with The Others they will likely have a very alien sense of time for related reasons.
A thousand ages in their sight are like an evening gone...
i mean, that would be the case if not for the hodor shenanigans. bran cannot only see through time through the trees, he can literally affect the past, so its actual "time travel"
i REALLY though the hodor stuff was a creation of D&D but if its george's, time travel might be canon
Ugh about to go to sleep and get this notification. Merry Christmas Preston and to all the PJ fans!
Me too!! Can’t got to sleep without watching this even if it’s Christmas even ❤️ merry Christmas everyone! From California :)
For real, best bedtime story though lol
Twas the Long Night before Christmas, and all through the North, the dead were arriving, mostly by force.
Me and my brothers, clad all in Black, fortified the Wall, though our manpower lacked.
As we toiled and prepared, the frigid wind blow, and the crackle of fire dies off in the Snow.
Rhaegar? What are you doing here?
Same
Bran calls Bloodraven the "Whisperer in darkness" and in Lovecraft's The Whisperer in Darkness, he explains that the widespread myths about secretive fairies who live in hollow hills are in fact distorted reports of the alien fungoid crabs from the black planet Yuggoth that have mining operations on Earth. They build druid-like stone circles, and live in caves, and they worship the Black Goat of the Woods. Craobh means "tree" in gaelic, so the alien crabs are really alien trees, which is confirmed in Lovecraft's story The Tree on the Hill, about the Black Goat being an alien tree that wants to cause a Long Night on Earth and terrorize humans during the Year of the Black Goat. The Black Goat may refer to the tree and/or the Black Planet Yuggoth which may cause a global solar eclipse on Earth and the planet can be controlled by a magic gem like the Bloodstone.
The alien crab/trees want to steal the protagonist's brain and put it in a jar. The disembodied brains can then move backwards and forwards in time and visit other planets including the black planet Yuggoth (which is the Stranger in Ice and Fire).
In gaelic, bran is sometimes spelled braine, and they both mean "leader, captain" and Bran means "raven, crow" and brionn means "dream" and brionglan means "branch" and brainnse means "branch, a plan, and tricks, antics" and bradan means "salmon"
Salmon... as in a Fish that swims upstream, against the current. Interesting.
Makes me think of Blackfish, which makes me wonder if Jaine Westerling's baby is important somehow.
@@Braigwen Or just the Tully sigil in general, I think that's what Michael meant
salmon, my favorite time-traveling alien beast
I always thought Hodor must have seen something too important for him to know and so, Bran must have deliberately fried his mind or is constantly warging him throughout the current story.
I don’t think it diminishes Hodors story to find out that everything he has done since we met him has been Bran, using his body to help himself progress along his journey.
I don’t know if this is where you are headed, but it also gives Bran a vessel to use.
Of course, we have Bran saying Hodor is curled up inside his own mind when current Bran is in there. But we don’t know for sure if he ever comes back out when current Bran leaves.
There is also that line where Bran feels the urge to tell Mira he loves her, so I wonder if that is left over from his older self, or if his older self was in there but letting younger Bran drive so to speak.
Not to mention in his collaboration work rape due a proxy (wild cards puppet master) was a thing.
I don't thing pm Aka Greg was his creation but the "rape vessel" he controlled was described as slow minded or something similar
@@AlanTheFellow what's this? I haven't read that yet. Mind filling me in with a little more detail?
So future Bran is purposefully banging past Bran’s head on all the doorways when he’s controller Hodor? 😂
Merry Christmas Preston
& Thank you for the endless hours of entertainment 🤙🏼
But in the end Bran just goes far far away in the past and stops all of the events, including himself, by possessing/blending with the mind of a seedship captain and directing his seedship away from Planetos without starting a war with hrangans of the forest...
Q&A: If we assume that there have been many attempts by Bran to unsuccessfully change the timeline, does this mean the bones Bran sees in that first dream with the Three-Eyed Crow are actually the bones of all those previous Brans who tried and failed to salvage the timeline?
This does seem very plausible.
i was thinking the same thing, although going off of prestons theory, every bran that goes back needs to at least learn how to go back in time, if he fails to learn that ability he cannot try to stop the apocalypse
@@eszym33
It may be the bones are of possible Brans rather than actual Brans.
@@alanpennie8013 I was thinking it could be the bones of brans that could travel, but if there's been like thousands then that's where their consciousness goes to die. Idk something like that.
Merry Christmas Preston! Thank you for years of entertainment!
preston, you just interrupted my rewatch of the deeper dorne by uploading this
Preston blesses my feed once again
Loved the Caspar David Friedrich painting included in your video :D "Wanderer über dem Nebelmeer" is one of my favourite CDF paintings.
Oh me oh my, love the gift Preston, much thanks lol
Grand felicitations for this Day of the Seven.
(… though, I’m a bit sad that Preston did not post a clip of his singing the carol as Sweet Robin. It’s a giggle-inducing classic.)
It ought to be a Christmas tradition.
12:40 Virtue's Last Reward has actually got you covered on that one. And yes, all those issues are something the story addresses.
What a Christmas present, thank you! 🙂😃
It's a Christmas miracle!! Great timing
Thank you sir, for this and all you do. Hope you and your family enjoy the holidays!
It's great that the faith I had that he'd gift us this was rewarded
There's something deeply ironic about using the shows timeline and then changing it's conclusion. Basically creating your own branching universe canon.
Time - Traveling Preston is on a mission to prevent the disaster of Season 8.
Happy holidays everyone
Merry christmas strangers.
Just woke up to this on Christmas morning! Thank you, Preston
18:10 time travelling bran would need to scramble Ayres mind to make Brandon go south and die because Catelyn was originally betrothed to him not Ned therefore preventing his birth
A good (and paradoxical) point.
It is quite likely that Bran (at least the one we know) didn't exist before he began altering the timeline.
There's actually a whole episode of doctor who on that paradox. It seems to be a wing of the causal loop but I think he described it as a Beethoven paradox.
I was going to go to sleep but i guess this is good too
I allways thought there was a changeable loop, first time round Hodor went willingly (as a normal man) to Bloodraven and had his mind taken over by Bran, and that is when Hodors mind gets smootched. Second time round is basically how we saw it in the show, coz of the first loop that interacted with the Hodor's past. That means the characters are in the second loop atm, and this time travelling Bran is from the 3rd loop
I’m never going to get tired of your intros I swear
This is a Christmas present just for me. Thank you Preston, my Santa!
Thank you so much for this unexpected gift. Have a good holiday Preston !
YES!! I knew staying up till 2am to start wrapping gifts was a good idea!
This series has made me want a Preston Jacobs essay on Berserk more than ever!
Merry Christmas Preston! Love your work!
This is the first Christmas present I opened. And I LOVE IT!
Sleep before Xmas Morning? Not while there is a new Preston Jacobs video to watch!
What a great gift. Thanks Preston and Merry Christmas
good timing
All three versions of time travel have the same effect on free will. But honestly, if you set aside your thematic preference for a moment, *it's most likely a causal loop.*
GRRM himself has said that his favorite time travel story ever written is "All you zombies" which is a the epitome of causal loop time travel stories. But the more damning evidence that ASOIAF uses a causal loop is Hodor and what we have been told about his origin. If ASOIAF uses Branching Timelines or a Single Changeable Timeline, then the Bran who broke Hodor is not the same one we are reading, and so we will never witness Bran going back in time and wrecking Hodor's mind nor would we really have any way of learning that information. After all it would be an event taking place between one non POV character in the past, and another non POV character in an alternate future. To even witness it the main Bran would have to also be in Walder's mind, but also able to perceive the alternate future door which needs to be held.
Merry christmas everybody
MERRY CHRISTMAS
This is my favorite of the time-traveling videos so far.
Thank you for these videos, Preston. I've lost all hope we'll ever get word of God answers, but your analyses feel like the next best thing.
For years I've thought every POV in the whole series is Bran.
Everyone of them is from the first person perspective except... using third person language, almost as if it's a passenger in the mind witnessing the events
Yes, I’ve always had a little tinfoil thought about how all of ASOIAF could be a few people, or just Bran, “playing “ this story as an RPG (a bit like the story interlude in GRRM’s Glass Flower). I’m certain I’m not alone in this.
That's called third person limited bro
Being Brandon Strark.
Maybe all the characters are just hodoring when they believe they're talking to each other.
Basically every single story ever is written in that way. It's so weird to write something as true first person. It sounds weird, it looks weird, it makes descriptions weird. Everything kind of becomes a weird run on sentence, OR, everything becomes super short statements to convey information. You also make any character who ever uses in-depth description of something into a fucking lunatic who belongs in an insane asylum.
It's literally just a writing style thing. It's not evidence of anything. It's how most novels with permanent characters are written.
Plopppy and Charles, but that's boring 🥱
I think your one mistake here is assuming the characters are aware of the nature of the time travel they use, as in if you're in a branching timeline system how would you know?
I haven’t put much thought into it so I might be wrong but I think u can tell by going back in time, changing something and going back into the future to see if anything changed.
@@maxb8749 You wouldn't be able to distinguish that from the "Rewriting the one and only timeline" option, I don't think.
Realistically they shouldn't know without some outside explanation. But there are some ways around it: you time travel back and notice some things are not the way they were in your timeline (some minor detail like a side character being lefthanded or righthanded), you can assume this is not entirely your timeline. Or it might be expressed explicitly, like when a protagonist wishes to see THE WORLD where they were not born.
It seems GRRM would state something like this if it was the case. Preston brought up the example of a guy who refuses to timetravel as he would have to leave his current girlfriend which implies that he somehow knew.
@@deLumren He knew because the time-travelling antagonist explained it to him.
i believe preston is specifically defining branching timelines as something separate from time travel, time travel allows you to choose your timeline, but infinite timelines already exist pre-time traveling. The single changeable timeline could in fact be multiple branches, each branch coming off of the one before and that previous one still existing. However, all the previous timelines would end in the apocalypse/ brans failure. so then there are multiple old timelines..... but in them everyone is dead. but there are not Infinite timelines
I'm having a horrible christmas, this isn't what I wanted for christmas (A lonely song video). But it warms my sad heart on this day.
While unlikely, I think it’s worth pointing out there could be an Avenger’s branching timeline situation. There’s only “one” where the protagonists succeed. It would be quite a dark twist if Bran actually “killed” his family to achieve the future where his world survived
Merry Christmas Preston, thank you for this little Christmas gift xx
"Winds of Winter still isn't done, but here's the first book of the alternate branched ASoIaF timeline"
At some level I feel like the experiences of -Bran Taveling and/or affecting the past- should be questioned as much as the maesters telling of historical events.
Are these dreams? Imagination? Self-perceived fiction? Mental retellings?
Did Bran actually go back and cause Hodors affliction or was that a dream/nightmare, causing Bran to believe he was personally responsible? That guilt driving his motivations in the remaining series?
Good point
Love your videos, have watched nearly all of them. Please keep up the hard work, you're probably right about far more than half of this. That said, I disagree with you on which version of time-travel is happening in this story: Everything you said about the danger (of Bran accidentally erasing himself by way of ripple effect that alters the events of the moment of his conception) strikes me as actually being really good arguments that the causal loop exists. If there's a single changeable timeline, then it is incredibly reckless for Bran to visit any moment prior to his own conception, and even somewhat risky to visit any moment prior to Bran's arrival at the weirwood tree north of the wall. Despite those dangers, we know from the Hodor situation that he does visit and impact at least one moment prior to his conception. So at best, he's stupidly unaware of the disaster that delaying his conception by 10 minutes would be (and to be fair, most time-travel stories are equally ignorant about such realities, so I guess that's a possibility here as well). If he can change the past, and doesn't have to fulfill some sort of causal loop destiny when he does so, then his obvious goal should be to save as much of his family as he can. For example, there's no good reason why he couldn't save Robb, as long as he does so after Theon sacks Winterfell and young Bran starts his trek northward. He doesn't mitigate the red wedding in the slightest, so it seems to me that he can't change things. I mean, I guess they could trot out a lame "I've seen 14 million variations, and this is the only one where mankind doesn't go extinct" nonsense, but anything short of that level of heavy-handed ridiculousness means Bran is the jerk who let his family be murdered unnecessarily. I'm hoping it's a causal loop, like the show implied it is. Anything else would be very hard to write in a way that doesn't invalidate much of the story, and/or make Bran an unintentional villain/idiot. (Then again, maybe that difficulty is why this book is taking forever to finish...) Thank you for making these videos!
Merry Christmas Preston ✌️
thanks for the xmas gift pj
Merry Christmas. Thank you for all you do!
A new PJ video? It’s a Christmas miracle!
Whoooo thank you for the Christmas gift!! I think Bran will be existing in the two places simultaneously in the book, the whole time is a river thing. But I could be wrong. Who know with what we saw on the show, it could be totally changing the context that we talk about this in. Anyone get Rick Sanchez vibes from the video?
A causal loop isn't a paradox in the strict logical sense of the term. The absence of a primary cause defies our usual common sense way of thinking about causality, but it doesn't constitute a logical contradiction. Also, having causal loops in your story doesn't necessarily preclude it from exploring existentialist themes. The Legacy of Kain video game series does both, for example.
Also, Merry Christmas. :)
Also, I don't see how a single changeable timeline can avoid paradoxes at all. After all, both causal loops and multiverse time travel were only introduced into fiction at all in the first place to deal with the paradoxes the single changeable timeline approach had caused.
@@clownpendotfart I'm a fiction writer who knows nothing about physics, but I also don't think real life physics matters that much here. This video series and my comment are about discussing time travel in fiction.
Causal loops are literally loops by name. If you don't have a loop it's not a causal loop, the entire point is that you create a primary cause and thus create a loop creating a paradox. It's a paradox. The primary cause is your actions in the past. Everything is a single chain of events until that point, but the second you make the interaction, you create a loop. A paradox. You change the nature of the situation.
A single changeable timeline can easily avoid paradoxes. It goes like this: Everything in the future is deleted, but you simply remain where you are. You don't exist in the present and the future, you just exist in the present. When you make the change, the future changes. But the future doesn't exist yet. Travelling forward simply means you're skipping through time to a certain point, but events are still unfolding as you go. The future is created when you move back forward. Their cannot be a loop in that system, because anytime you attempt to create the loop, it's broken. You don't need to worry about your own birth being changed by a change in the past, changing the future, because when you time travel backwards, you are literally moving yourself to that point, and essentially the future is being dragged back with you. Any changes that occur don't effect you being there, because you essentially wipe the future away as you time travel, and then when you return, you're actually letting the future rewrite. You become the point of existence. You are the reference. Now, assuming you change absolutely nothing in the past, moving forward arrives at the same outcome. This assumes that there is no randomness to decision making, not that their is no free will, but that given the same situations, people based on their environment will always make the same choice. The assumption here is that unless something changes, the decisions made by everyone will be the same because we like to assume our decision making process isn't effected by some random quantum number generator. We generally assume people make rational or irrational decisions based on their environments and instincts.
So yeah, a single changeable timeline can easily avoid paradoxes. It's pretty dark though, every time you time travel the present is deleted, and unless you have a way to explore the past completely invisible, unnoticed and non-interactive in any way, you will inevitably make small changes. So returning to the exact same present is extremely unlikely. You'd essentially be killing all 8 billion people on the planet every time you time travelled. But, atleast there's no paradoxes.
Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas Preston, best to you and your family and good luck with the move. Apprecite everything you do!
Merry Christmas Preston! 🎄 I can't even express, how fascinanting this series have been so far! Excelent work! 👏👏👏👏
Branching timelines would be a good way for GRR to be like, "the show? Nah fuck that timeline" lol
This is possibly the best use of time travel in ASOIAF I've come across yet! Cheers!
Merry Day of the Seven!
Merry christmas to Preston n family!
Thanks 4 the video.
if bran can’t change anything prior to his conception (a point which i agree is only logical) then how did he break hodor’s mind? i like the idea that time traveling bran did it so that our Bran would have someone to warg into and someone that could carry him, but it doesn’t seem possible
Preston does say near the start of the video that it's possible that hodors mind was broken after brans conception but before his birth
Best holiday gift ever - thanks Preston!
Merry Chistmas. Preston. Thank you for filling a george sized hole in my hart.
What a lovely Christmas present. Thank you so much Preston.
Not gonna lie…I stayed up super late for this and it did not disappoint. Happy holidays to you and your family Preston!
Lmaoo, thx preston Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas to us! Thanks Preston! 🎄😊
Merry Christmas Preston! Love ya videos.
Good on you, great timing as always. Happy Christmas to you and your family.
I for one am loving the increase in output of content with the recent relocation.
Merry Christmas! Thanks for the video!
Papa Preston with the surprise xmas gift. Thank you! I hope you're enjoying the festivities.
Happy Christmas everyone, thanks for the upload Preston.
Merry Christmas everyone! Thanks preston!
Thanks for another thought provoking video!
thats a lot to take in.. Thanks and Merry Christmas
Just the Christmas present I needed
Merry Christmas Preston!! Thank you for the gift of another video!!
Best Christmas gift! Merry Christmas to you and yours Preston
After the crappy gift I got for Festivus this is a pleasant surprise. Thanks PJ!!
what a lovely christmas surprise!
Wooo I knew I wasn't up till 2:30 for nothing!
The whole point about the infinite number of infinite Universes being created by every decision made is that every decision creates one new Universe and all the other possibilities collapse into nothing.
Preston woke up and choose violence by uploading on Christmas
Oh wonderful! Happy Christmas Preston and family!!
Best Christmas present I could have asked for! Merry Christmas Preston and all
"Hodor, stop 'Hodoring.'" - Bran😁
Merry Christmas to Preston and the Jacobs family!!!
A very nice christmas present for us prestonites! Merry Christmas to you, M Jacobs. Peace and prosperity to your family. Merry Christmas to all!
This video is an Xmas treat!
Do you think the the three eyed crow might actually be a three eyed raven, and bran just didn’t tell the difference? hence the name bloodraven, and that’s why he was confused when bran asked if he was a crow? Granted that confusion is a pretty weird thing for george to add lol
What if Bloodraven is controlled/inhabited by Future-Bran?
Bloodraven spent many years as a crow. He wouldn't be too thrown by use of the other, similar looking, bird associated with him.
you know I'm finally coming around to this....
Thanks for another great video and happy holidays!
I personally dislike time traveling stories, especially the ones that are not of the Unchangeable Timeline variety, but I do hope GRRM can make it interesting. If he ever finishes the story that is.
The intro to this series is legendary lol
I think Bran is the Three-eyed Crow. I found it interesting that the name "Brandon" means "crow" in old Welsh.
Best Christmas present ever!
Well, is a set timeline really contradicting free choice? Jaimie could always choose what he wants to be in the future, but an observer from out of time would see all the decisions Jaimie would eventually make himself and see those actions as ‘set’ in time. If time rewinded itself, Jaimie would always make those same choices, not because he didn’t have a choice, but because he always made them.
I would say that in real life we can say that humans have subjective free will but events are objectively determined. It's part of existentialism that Preston maybe gets a bit tripped up in. Even if events are determined to happen in the future, we can't know those events and so we should act as though we have free will and take responsibility for our actions as if we chose them, because in a real sense we did.
I think GRRM could realistically think of time this way. Our choices matter because we made them, and time and it's events are painted all at once.
Time existing all at once (in a sense) is a trope Vonnegut used that GRRM would probably be familiar with as well.
@@jakeyoneda2056 Aye. As the saying goes "Ofcourse I believe in free will! Do I have the choice no to?"
Exactly!!! So happy to see another voice of reason here!
I think Preston projected a lot of his own feelings about fate into the idea of a stable time loop without actually thinking everything through.
First Christmas present for me! Cheers Preston!