Will it start? This Cat RD 4 dozer has been forgotten about for 20 years. Can we bring this old hunk of iron back to life? Instagram: RustbucketRevival
You could have a valve not seating all the way, but more likely the rings are stuck. You got some good info below about adding a few squirts of oil to each cylinder. Roll it over with the plugs out first. Then try you compression test. Be advised this can oil foul the plugs, so having a spare set is a good idea. If the compression comes up, it's rings. The oil also helps lube the cylinder and that sounds like it's kinda dry when you pull it over to me. The suggestion on belting up an electric motor to the pony is good. Mine had a 115 volt 1/2hp motor on it at one point. The guy that had it before me kept it by the barn, worked for him. Even a small gas motor will do if it spins in the right direction. I strongly advise you look up Squatch253's channel. Pretty much everything on a D2 is similar to a D4. He knows these things inside and out and there's no guess work like on some other channels. Kyle Christ is tearing a D4 down but he's only just starting, so I don't know if that will help you.
I have started engines which have been sitting and appear to be low on compression buy putting a few squirts of engine oil in each cylinder. The oil will help seal the rings. Doing this I have had them start and stop, then reapply oil and start again and stop. After several starts the heat and vibration may loosen rings and eventually keep running. Good luck with it.👍
I agree, ATF will penetrate better but the idea here is the heavier engine oil will help seal the compression in so it will start, then the rings will free up. What ever works for you. The end goal is the same, save old iron!
2 or 3 squirts from an oil pump can. You can pull it thru then and check if compression comes up some. It’s an old way of checking if rings or valves are leaking. If rings oil should help bring compression up, if leaking valves the oil won’t help. Again, good luck, and if you haven’t check out Kyle Christ as he is in the beginning stages of complete rebuild of an RD4.
Just a thought, we shoot a little oil in the cylinder. Then recheck compression. Tells if the rings are leaking. Increase after shooting oil in cylinder points to ring problem. Rings could be stuck from sitting. No increase, valves.
Either will wash away the oil in the cylinders, preventing compression. Squirt some oil in the spark plug holes, reinstall plugs, then use a little either. Keep choke closed.
If you have ever watched MUSTIE start old gas motors he pours a bit of 2 stroke mixture down the carb or straight in the plug holes on first stats / will it starts, 2 stroke has oil so helps lube and seal stuck rings. if you got spark at the right time, if you got gas/2 stroke and you got compression it should at least fire up for a while.. try it
@@rustbucketrevival No worries, just to let you know, Im way across the big pond in England but watch your channel for a while. Good luck.. OH is there a way to try starting the pony on a nut in the middle of the starting ring, using a power drill perhaps, MUSTIES favourite starting tool.. good luck any way.
Oil the cylinders, use an electric motor with a v-belt from a large shop fan or something similar to crank it, and be easy on the cosby sauce. Dynamic compression will kick in if you get it spinning fast enough and that will help it light off.
We have a 1940 -7J D4 and a 1949 -7U. Those pony engines havent any oil pump or passages to clog up. So its Ok use a 50-50 Mixture of engine oil and stp or lucas etc. to a worn low comp engine. Now You can get a old long snout ford starter and put a pulley on it and use a v belt to crank the pony engine. Thats how I cranked the pony on our 7U our 7J has the factory electric starter for the pony. Sometimes the mag has a weak spark. I bypass the mags coil and add a external 12 volt coil hooked to a battery and tap the lead from the external coil to the mags cap. Take the broken spark plug and gut it out and weld a male air hose fitting to it. screw it into the cyl. if air comes out the exhaust when its at TDC you have a leaky exhaust valve . opposite if air come out the carb its a leaky intake. The compressed air can possibly blow rust and other debris out and let the valves seal. Your diesel engine has the wrong intake? the pony engines exhaust is supposed to travel thru the center of the intake manifold to heat the incoming air to aid in starting. Diesel doesnt turn to varnish, However it loses its cetane . Squatch is a Guru on the D2 cats and they use the exact same pony engine as a D4.
You need to pull over the motor multiple times. One pull will not give you an accurate reading. Keep pulling until the gauge stops rising. Don't reset the gauge after each pull. You probably don't have a stuck valve, or you would have zero compression. The valve seat could be dirty, and the rings could be stuck in the grooves of the piston. pour some penetrant, let it sit in each cylinder. Then pour in some heavy oil before another start attempt to see of your compression raises above 100. If not pull the head on each side, and start cleaning. Good luck.
So something over 90 psi will run with spark and fuel, any kind of thin lube will improve the rings sealing with the piston and cylinder but not do much for the valves if they are not seating and cycling well
Mix 50-50 oil and gas and use it sparingly to prime carb. Oil will help valves seal and rings too. Spin it over with a motor to get it to start and run. Once it runs it may start good with rope.
Another thought, if you can’t get it to fire you can run a belt around the rope grove to an electric motor and the continued spinning may do the trick. I actually use a generator/starter from a 10 horse Koehler as an electric starter on my D4 pony. Just thought I’d try to help with ideas without major work.
Check out Kyle Christ. He is in the process of tearing down for restoration just like yours. ACMOC is a good source for information on the older Cats. A generic sediment bowl should work
You could try pouring some sea foam or decarbonizer in each cylinder and letting it soak, the rings could be sticking. Typically from my experience you need around 80 psi on a motor like that
I just stumbled into your channel, and immediately subscribed! Great videos! What's the latest on the RD-4? Got her running/pulling yet, or sold her? Or a yard ornament.
make sure you are pulling the rope the right direction. (there is an arrow on the flywheel). dont ask me how i found out!! If you got a big 1/2 or 3/4 HP electric moter, put it on a board with a hinge and use it to crank the little bugger.
Looks like you’re pulling from the wrong side. There’s an arrow on the flywheel. Check the pet coco valves. They can leak or be open. Even really low compression it should fire.
Go check out Kyle Christ and squatch253 they have a ton of useful information. Also make sure your pulling the pony motor into the right direction it's marked on the flywheel. I have seen people try to pull it the wrong way and use curse words later.
Remember NON ETHENOL GAS for anything u want to keep around. ETHENOL fuel is just bad for anything that sits...(people say I just put fuel stabilizer in it) just buy non ethenol gas and only wory about varnish and not fuel rusting out stuff, making aluminum corrode and rubber lines and parts deteriorate
@@bigtrev8xl 2 stroke is better as it lubes the rings and helps seal them/ watch MUSTIE on his will it start videos.. Even I got a plastic bottle with 2 stroke in for starting my 4 stroke lawn mower/ even used it to start a VESPA motor scooter engine today after many months of standing under cover.
Equally, I can show dozens of people starting engines with just petrol, but in the real world, it'll make no difference to an engine, that's not been started in years..
Where are the follow up videos? Wanna see what happened to these machines
You could have a valve not seating all the way, but more likely the rings are stuck. You got some good info below about adding a few squirts of oil to each cylinder. Roll it over with the plugs out first. Then try you compression test. Be advised this can oil foul the plugs, so having a spare set is a good idea. If the compression comes up, it's rings. The oil also helps lube the cylinder and that sounds like it's kinda dry when you pull it over to me. The suggestion on belting up an electric motor to the pony is good. Mine had a 115 volt 1/2hp motor on it at one point. The guy that had it before me kept it by the barn, worked for him. Even a small gas motor will do if it spins in the right direction. I strongly advise you look up Squatch253's channel. Pretty much everything on a D2 is similar to a D4. He knows these things inside and out and there's no guess work like on some other channels. Kyle Christ is tearing a D4 down but he's only just starting, so I don't know if that will help you.
Thanks you for the info. I reached out to squatch 253. Hopefully he is able to help me out.
Tractor Supply has got the settlement Bowl
I have started engines which have been sitting and appear to be low on compression buy putting a few squirts of engine oil in each cylinder. The oil will help seal the rings. Doing this I have had them start and stop, then reapply oil and start again and stop. After several starts the heat and vibration may loosen rings and eventually keep running. Good luck with it.👍
Thanks for the help!
As stated above I use automatic transmission fluid as it's a bit thinner and gets round the rings better
I agree, ATF will penetrate better but the idea here is the heavier engine oil will help seal the compression in so it will start, then the rings will free up. What ever works for you. The end goal is the same, save old iron!
How much oil or ATF should go in each cylinder?
2 or 3 squirts from an oil pump can. You can pull it thru then and check if compression comes up some. It’s an old way of checking if rings or valves are leaking. If rings oil should help bring compression up, if leaking valves the oil won’t help. Again, good luck, and if you haven’t check out Kyle Christ as he is in the beginning stages of complete rebuild of an RD4.
My D4 7u sat for 25 years I cleaned the carburetor and pulled on the rope for a few hours till it started it’s a real work out
Just a thought, we shoot a little oil in the cylinder. Then recheck compression. Tells if the rings are leaking. Increase after shooting oil in cylinder points to ring problem. Rings could be stuck from sitting. No increase, valves.
Thanks for the info!
A few times I've hooked up a 5 hp motor with a belt to start both motors.
Either will wash away the oil in the cylinders, preventing compression. Squirt some oil in the spark plug holes, reinstall plugs, then use a little either. Keep choke closed.
If you have ever watched MUSTIE start old gas motors he pours a bit of 2 stroke mixture down the carb or straight in the plug holes on first stats / will it starts, 2 stroke has oil so helps lube and seal stuck rings. if you got spark at the right time, if you got gas/2 stroke and you got compression it should at least fire up for a while.. try it
That’s a great idea, thanks!
@@rustbucketrevival No worries, just to let you know, Im way across the big pond in England but watch your channel for a while. Good luck.. OH is there a way to try starting the pony on a nut in the middle of the starting ring, using a power drill perhaps, MUSTIES favourite starting tool.. good luck any way.
Yes sir there is. It is pretty mangled but I am going to try and get it off so I can replace it with one I can get a socket on.
If the pony motor was to start and not clear the rope wrapped around your hand I'm thinking your looking at a bad day
Oil the cylinders, use an electric motor with a v-belt from a large shop fan or something similar to crank it, and be easy on the cosby sauce. Dynamic compression will kick in if you get it spinning fast enough and that will help it light off.
We have a 1940 -7J D4 and a 1949 -7U. Those pony engines havent any oil pump or passages to clog up. So its Ok use a 50-50 Mixture of engine oil and stp or lucas etc. to a worn low comp engine. Now You can get a old long snout ford starter and put a pulley on it and use a v belt to crank the pony engine. Thats how I cranked the pony on our 7U our 7J has the factory electric starter for the pony. Sometimes the mag has a weak spark. I bypass the mags coil and add a external 12 volt coil hooked to a battery and tap the lead from the external coil to the mags cap. Take the broken spark plug and gut it out and weld a male air hose fitting to it. screw it into the cyl. if air comes out the exhaust when its at TDC you have a leaky exhaust valve . opposite if air come out the carb its a leaky intake. The compressed air can possibly blow rust and other debris out and let the valves seal. Your diesel engine has the wrong intake? the pony engines exhaust is supposed to travel thru the center of the intake manifold to heat the incoming air to aid in starting. Diesel doesnt turn to varnish, However it loses its cetane . Squatch is a Guru on the D2 cats and they use the exact same pony engine as a D4.
You need to pull over the motor multiple times. One pull will not give you an accurate reading. Keep pulling until the gauge stops rising. Don't reset the gauge after each pull. You probably don't have a stuck valve, or you would have zero compression. The valve seat could be dirty, and the rings could be stuck in the grooves of the piston. pour some penetrant, let it sit in each cylinder. Then pour in some heavy oil before another start attempt to see of your compression raises above 100. If not pull the head on each side, and start cleaning. Good luck.
So something over 90 psi will run with spark and fuel, any kind of thin lube will improve the rings sealing with the piston and cylinder but not do much for the valves if they are not seating and cycling well
Use a machine shop to have a pin made, and scrounge junk yards for a sediment bowl. Unless you have them already LOL
I'm going to subscribe and wish you luck with this project
Mix 50-50 oil and gas and use it sparingly to prime carb. Oil will help valves seal and rings too. Spin it over with a motor to get it to start and run. Once it runs it may start good with rope.
Another thought, if you can’t get it to fire you can run a belt around the rope grove to an electric motor and the continued spinning may do the trick. I actually use a generator/starter from a 10 horse Koehler as an electric starter on my D4 pony. Just thought I’d try to help with ideas without major work.
Thanks! There is a large nut on the shaft I thought about putting a socket on that to my impact drill to spin it over.
Check out Kyle Christ. He is in the process of tearing down for restoration just like yours. ACMOC is a good source for information on the older Cats. A generic sediment bowl should work
Thanks for the info
I have a cat r d4 just like that one. I love it.
You could try pouring some sea foam or decarbonizer in each cylinder and letting it soak, the rings could be sticking. Typically from my experience you need around 80 psi on a motor like that
Thanks I’ll try that
Thanks for the info
I just stumbled into your channel, and immediately subscribed! Great videos! What's the latest on the RD-4? Got her running/pulling yet, or sold her? Or a yard ornament.
make sure you are pulling the rope the right direction. (there is an arrow on the flywheel). dont ask me how i found out!! If you got a big 1/2 or 3/4 HP electric moter, put it on a board with a hinge and use it to crank the little bugger.
Looks like you’re pulling from the wrong side. There’s an arrow on the flywheel. Check the pet coco valves. They can leak or be open. Even really low compression it should fire.
Warm up the pony motor helps out the diesel
? pony motor is a gas engine I think, if it runs turning the cat engine it warms up anyway so i read/ maybe wrong ?
nice
where do you find these old stuff ?
looks like you have some Ali Baba Cave somewhere around the country ?
Very interesting video
This one I picked up in North Dakota
Go check out Kyle Christ and squatch253 they have a ton of useful information. Also make sure your pulling the pony motor into the right direction it's marked on the flywheel. I have seen people try to pull it the wrong way and use curse words later.
Thank you
Check out Pacific Northwest Hillbilly he mite be able to help you he does know of someone sell part
Thank you for the help
Inconsistent audio levels, please turn on the subtitles
Have you got it running yet?
Soak it in dextron and acitone if rings are not broke it will help
I have read ATF and acetone is the best penetration combination.
That pin probably ended up in somebody's windshield too many people hauling things down the road not probably secured
I couldn’t agree more!
Remember NON ETHENOL GAS for anything u want to keep around. ETHENOL fuel is just bad for anything that sits...(people say I just put fuel stabilizer in it) just buy non ethenol gas and only wory about varnish and not fuel rusting out stuff, making aluminum corrode and rubber lines and parts deteriorate
Put some ctaine booster in the fuel
Nice ! 👍👍👍👋👋👋🤝🤝🤝🇩🇪
Thank you
Pour some petrol in through the carb..🍻🍻👍👍
What will that do?
@@rustbucketrevival hopefully, the engine will fire, then pull fuel through on it's own..
@@bigtrev8xl 2 stroke is better as it lubes the rings and helps seal them/ watch MUSTIE on his will it start videos.. Even I got a plastic bottle with 2 stroke in for starting my 4 stroke lawn mower/ even used it to start a VESPA motor scooter engine today after many months of standing under cover.
Equally, I can show dozens of people starting engines with just petrol, but in the real world, it'll make no difference to an engine, that's not been started in years..
Check with squatch253 he can help you find parts and tell a lot about these cats
Thank you
I was going to recommend the same thing,if you reach out to him he will get back to you and he is extremely knowledgeable on these old cats
Thanks
Squatch's stash is monumental. He either has it or knows where you can get it.