Repairing the Toro Rear Drive (Personal Pace) A Closer Look-What Goes Wrong-How to Fix
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- Toro's are Great Machines but they have their issues, things go wrong, wear out and just break.
Lets open up a few rear drives and find out what can happen & how to fix them!
I go deeper into Rear Drive on Toro, lets see what time and use do to these then we can figure out how to fix them if its even worth it or possible!
CHECK OUT MY OTHER VIDEO ON THE TORO PERSONAL PACE REPAIR!
• Toro Personal Pace Re...
![[ TEASER ] เงาะป่า - วงL.กฮ. | TMG RECORD](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/M4ObdFfcPww/mqdefault.jpg)
At 22:05 you mention the housing is bad when you are able to wobble the gear shaft. There is actually a sealed bearing pressed into the housing. As you are aware, the pulley rides on that shaft sitting atop the spacer. The spacer sits on the inner ring of the sealed bearing. The slack you demonstrated is from the worn sealed bearing. I replaced mine today and was able to find an identical Titan bearing at Grainger that cost $4.27. The part number on the bearing is 6203 RS. The one I replaced was locked up prior to pressing it out but freed up after removal. It was so worn I noticed a groove in the belt guard from the pulley making contact with the guard. I was having issues with the transmission not engaging that lead me to the worn bearing. The transmission now engages as it should. Hope this helps you save some of your transmission housings.
Thanks,, good job too!
I pinned this comment!!!
That sealed bearing is bad on mine as well. I ordered a bearing with that part number from Amazon, I haven't confirmed yet that the dimensions are the same as mine. Hopefully its right. It's a 17x40x12. I'll find out next week when I go to replace it.
I can confirm the 6203 rs bearing fits the input pinion bearing on my '07 personal pace. Not a difficult job, and my gears and bushings were in good shape. But the bushings do wear out, and I've previously replaced mine.
I just set the housing on a block of wood, and used a socket to drive out the bearing. Then used a bigger socket to reinstall the bearing, one that just touched the outer race. Then packed with bearing grease, and resealed with permetex.
Keep in mind the one washer that is inside the housing that slides on the shaft is there for wear, and proper preload on the gears. I added an extra thin washer to make mine tighter.
Also, mark the housing for which side the ring gear sits on. It can be installed backwards accidentally.
Take it from me the plastic gear wheels are a waste of time and money, I ordered the Toro metal replacement kit on Amazon for 60. Dollars and it comes with two metal gear wheels, two new gears, new bearings and two plastic sleeves and its works like it's brand new with no grinding! There are u-tube videos out there to show you how to change them out.
Thanks for posting this video. I just started playing with mowers for my new hobby. I just repaired the rear wheel drive on a twin to the one you are working on but I think I will go over it again with a new set of eyes. Your video provided some useful information that I will add to my bag of tricks.
Thanks!!! Glad to hear,, have fun!!
Glad you found my video helpful. Have fun!
I'm going to go charge a new mower on my Mastercard and take up watercolor painting as my new hobby.
Thanks much for the detailed and organized process, especially concerning the order of the gear parts.
Thanks,,,This is one of my 1st videos and needs an update.
I started a build late this season and hope to release next season and with better footage,sound and delivery!
Thanks for watching!
Great video! I have two self-propelled '80s Toros and a '94 as well... You're very clear in showing how to work on these and because of that, I can see how it works... I will eventually do a restoration on them, so this encourages me a bunch!!!
I luv them,,,they clean up nice!
They are also easy to stock parts for!!
Thanks for the comment!
Nice job. Thanks for taking the time to document your work.
thanx for watching!!! I'm still learning how to record video...
Thanks! This is really helping me reassemble my toro transmission! Appreciate the content!
Thanx Charlie, this was one of the early videos
Just tightened (adjusted) the outer cable so it would move well,,It lasted most of the yard then heard noises (belt slipping) and figured I'd "adjusted" myself into a trans..I'll check the wheel gears first and chuck keys but Thank God your doing these vids. If its complete gone I can use this. Thanks.
Thanx,,,I'm working on a NEW video for this. This is old and with crappy equipment. I took apart 4 machines, grabbed the best parts and I will go over everything. Paint, rust, build, tune, this way I can make a few separate vids with better cameras and lighting.
Can you replace the rear transmission with the front transmission, considering that they have the same part number? Thank you for your help.
I don't think so, they don't use the same gears and there is a type of ratchet clutch in the rear!
I did another video a couple of years ago, it looked at a bunch of these,, its in the folder for toro. check that out.
Thank you, for your time and the research.
Great video, wish I would have seen thus Before I bought!
Thanks for watching!!
I just finished doing this. MAKE SURE YOU MATCH THE CORRECT WHEELS WITH YOUR MODEL NUMBER!
Yup, over the years things changed!
Arch ole boy!!!! you are bad mouthing my rear wheel drive Toro SuperRecycler!!! I have had it in the shop 2 times in 15 years getting the rear wheel drive serviced. Nothing but belt was replaced to my memory. I ASSUME they took it apart cleaned & greased. I do the zerk fittings on the rear wheels myself...
lol,,,,yep, I will complain now and again!
I have the honda with the rear drive and I complain there too!
Its just harder and takes more time to service and repair, customers don't like to cough up the extra cash...
The rear wheels with the plastic gears are junk. After replacing them twice I came across an upgraded kit that has metal gears inside the wheels. It requires changing out the axle gears which are included and easy to change. No issues since.
Nice,, good call!
Great upgrade! Gonna pin this
I fixed mine so the plastic gears would not wear. Pretty cheap too. May not be your problem. th-cam.com/video/RVK_po7BRZs/w-d-xo.html
Plastic works if the mounting plate is parallel.
Just replaced wheels and outside metal axle gears 2019 model. Metal gears all round. Small axle gear no woodruff key. Just a rectangle hole that matched shaft. SO stuck had to grind gears off.
Crazy, these work well when lubricated but they live in the dirt and moisture!
Glad ya fixed yours!
i have half inch play on shaft side to side is that normal ?
Yes, that's about as much as you should have as long as it still works and the Gears are on.
Also it depends on how your measuring this.
The entire shaft can move in the bearing/adjuster mounts.
Once the gears and washers are on this should tighten up quite a bit.
Grease on the wheel ends of the drive axle is a no-no. Dry lube only.
Noted!
The extra washer goes on left side the pully /belt pulls to right
I have a 2003 model 20381. Uses a different type of key system. I'd like to find a video on that system as I got it used and some parts are missing from the left drive gear assy. Difficult to run a straight line with only the right wheel driving.
In my Toro machines folder there may be a video on what your looking for
I've done everything thing possible to make mine work new pulleys new tranny new belt finally i took some paint to the gears among the other problems I found that the gears don't fully mesh to engage the tranny fully they skip causing the rounding off of the gear teeth the only solution I could come up with is takeing a large set of players and bending the mount away from the mower to get the gears to fully mesh the other option im looking at is to cut the mount making it shorter.
wow,,, horror. I'm not sure where your issue is, generally I shim with washers when possible to make things mesh.
good luck
I now go through these completely WAY before I restore these, I dont do repairs on them however.
Basically I stay away from these now as there just isn't enough money to pay the time required but I look for the front drive versions!
Wow！ Congrats for getting your mower to work!
It's a common problem on the Toros. They use cheap plastic gears In the wheels
@@leadnsteel1428 The new ones, I just had one here that did, the one in the video is all steal but they rust, that part of the problem..
Factory uses dry lube which wears off, then the rust starts!
I'm working on a personal pace like in this video. I replaced the transmission. I'm having a hell of a time trying to find the right cable that engages the motor and shuts it off when the bar is released. I thought i found the right part, but it doesn't seem to match the machine. It's a 2008 model 20047. The part claims it's 107-0799. Not sure if you currently have a machine that you could send me/post that shows how it's assembled? I'm running into dead ends.
Its hard to say, I measure the cable,,,here's a link to my playlist on ways of dealing with cables...
th-cam.com/play/PLN2-S6TaOCsGCHWNn53RsRCsHRNqExcEK.html
Just did a front drive, pulley wobbled a little so replaced top bearing
Good,, now the rest of the gears may last!
Great job!
Thanks for watching!
Hello. I plan to replace my rear drive assy. Is it OK to tilt my mower on it's nose and should I drain the oil and gas before doing so? I see a lot of side tilts, but none lifting the rear up.
Not a bad idea to drain the oil and gas. The oil can dump into the cylinder!
I have found the best way to replace the drive is for the mower to be upside down!
lost the drive belt on my 2015 PPace super recycler and cant see how the belt routes around the engine pulley?
Not sure about those, is yours front drive? those are easy.
Usually there is a cover on the underside of the rear drive machines.
There are a few changes over the years.
sometimes all the plastics are in the way.
Hello, great video. On my toro, the gear will not come off the left side as it is stuck. Do you know what would cause this?
Rust and dirt generally. keep lubricating it, maybe wire wheel
The problem you described never happened to my Toro mower. But the bolts in various locations of the Toro mower have the tendency to get loose because of the vibration in the 12+ years of usage. I have to check and tighten those bolts every once in a while. You might want to check whether you need to tighten or replace the bolt(s) and nut(s) holding the gear.
My belt guard is missing can you supply used one, looks like same trans you showed in this video. Some parts lists show two bent wires in place of plate like the ones you showed.
Amazon should have these parts, I don't sell parts sorry.
I've had a TORO Recycler for 11 years swith ZERO problems
Sweet! Do you do your own service?
Any suggestions? I have a Toro Self-paced (AWD) recycler, and the rear wheels won't ever stop spinning even when release lever is disengaged. I did adjust the tension in the wire but no results. Help!
Best guess is its not disengaging. Could be dirt buildup somewhere not letting the idler pullies to move freely. Time to start taking things apart and look deeper!
Christeen
I have a rear wheel Toro. I'm replacing the belt. It jumped off a pulley. I notice the transmission shaft is moving like 2 pieces and seems both pieces meet inside the transmission box. Is the shaft supposed to be one solid piece where both wheels move at the same? Is the shaft broken?
Yes. That shaft has a large gear pressed on at the transmission side of the shaft. As these are a solid shaft, I cannot believe it being broken.
I have a 28 year old Lawnboy Gold series made by Toro where the entire belt is on the top of the deck . The belt and the 3 speed transmission have never failed in all that time and I cut a 1/4 acre once a week. Why can't they make them like that anymore? Planed obsolescence ? Except for cleaning and greasing the small drive gears so they will slip when going backwards and replacing the wheels when they wore out and split the drive train has been trouble free. What recently failed the blower housing from metal fatigue where it bolted to the engine from so many pull starts and I replaced the pull cord itself once.
I hear ya,,, that's a very good machine indeed.
I have the Toro version of that machines somewhere, it has an aluminum deck, its just like the lawnboy except its red and says Toro!
cuz you'd never buy another..same cars, bikes, BBQs.
Thank you and have a great day.
Planned obsolescence is mostly a myth. The thing is problems and mistakes can happen. For example some people maybe had problems with a tool in the beginning while other people have the same exact model and they never had problems. Just because one model had a problem or something happened to it doesn't mean that the whole model year is bad.
You dont have to take that trans off to do the belt. Ive done hundreds of those and you just release the tension cable and twist the trans down exactly as you did.
This is an old video now,,,sadly I don't see these anymore in my shop,,,ugghhh
My situation is that I bought new rear wheels because the plastic wheel gears were worn. The pinion gears looked fine. But the gear in replacement wheels I bought are a slightly larger diameter (larger inside diameter) so that now there's hardly any engagement, as though I need one more tooth on the pinion. Did Toro change the gear pairing at some point? How many teeth are on your pinion (drive) gears? (I counted 15 from when you held it in the video)
There are the older wheels and newer, totally different design. I don't remember the tooth number. Also there is a difference in the newer version as well, the metal tooth set vs the newer plastic set is also different.
Its best to look up your machine model number. Or ya have to do more research and visually match up.
This may help. I was able to use the original wheels because only the outer edge of the gear was worn. th-cam.com/video/RVK_po7BRZs/w-d-xo.html
Which is best RWD or FWD??
Great question,,
I should do a video on this as its more than one answer!
Quick answer is rear drive will need more maintenance. Lets say over a 5 year period of heavy use, maybe in a dusty area, you will need to service it at least once and twice is better as you may notice its not working properly around 3 seasons.
Front drive may get to 5 years and then you will notice some issues.
However, there are some ways to use the mower people like.
Front drive you can lift the wheels while still turning and get around tight or curvy areas! Not as easy with rear drive!
That's a brief explanation.
You can’t flip the pinion gears because the machine will not roll in both directions if you do.
I put a grease fitting in the cover. If drive is good
Is the transmission shaft one piece?
YUP! Good call,, we can see that I believe in this video but I do have another on the subject. I forget, lol, been a while, this is one of my early vids!
rear drive. Do you know if I have to remove and split motor housing? this also has the spin
stop feature
Not sure what you mean? What is the spin stop feature?
Is there a spring that takes it out of rwd?....mine stays in rwd all the time so It's hard to back up so something broke.....thanks
well, hard to say from such a vague description. If the spring on the handle broke? Too much dirt and grass built up down at the transmission?
Rear wheel drive belt will not loosen and hard to start, belt is tight all the time, any ideas what is wrong?....thanks
probably the cable is stuck and rusted
Always make sure you have a cigarette burning to help you do this job.
Lol,,,,,,,, I don't do that anymore,,,,,,
Thanks for watchin Andy
I just picked up a rear drive Toro and got the motor running. Transmission does not engage. I took the wheels off and noticed the plastic gear on the inside of the wheel was badly worn. Then with both rear wheels off, I started it up and engaged the transmission and it appears the shafts turn fine. I really don't want to buy new wheels unless the transmission is fine. My transmission has a number, eight or so, screws. Once removed I could not separate the cap of the transmission. Any ideas? I suppose I could take a punch to the side of the cap and try to loosen it.
Your gonna have to carefully pry off the lid. Start with a small screw driver. As long as all the screws are out it will come off.
It needs to look good in there, look for the galling and stripping I showed. Then re-pack with grease and use some RTV to re-seal..
Sounds like you may be able to fix it!!!
I think they are worth the effort..
This may be the problem with the wheel wear. th-cam.com/video/RVK_po7BRZs/w-d-xo.html
I have a personal pace Toro and my right rear wheel is locking up when pulling the mower backwards. It works perfectly otherwise. It has a new belt and cable. The steel gears on the wheels and shaft look fine. I can't figure out why that wheel is locking . Any ideas?
Check to see if the mounting plate is parallel with the mower body. I have found the mounting plate is toed in causing the pinion and gear not to mesh.
@@wrenfanThank you. I fixed it. I took the rear wheels off, bought some grease and greased the zerk fittings. I had tried just greasing the gears with a can of grease and that didn't do it. Once I did the zerk fittings, it freed it up.
@@xsiveoneGood job.
Got one in the yard with locked up bearings. I will have to remove the rear drive system , pull the bushings and bearings. Honda mowers do the same thing. It's a piss poor design.
Yea,, my Honda will if I let it, I released a quick season opener video wit my Honda getting some bearing luvvvvv..
A few guys commented on my using other then dry lube,, I use chain wax now but it probably doesnt matter much as these things mess up anyway as you know....Good luck with yours!
Wish you luck!
You went to a lot of trouble to build a very strong and good gear box for it but these are made to be thrown away and buy new I think
What does a new one cost ??200.00 ?
A new what?, gear box?,,
I sell these machines for around $200,,New they are a small fortune these days
@@TheNovaJohn I bought mine about 5 - 6 years ago and it was almost $500.
BTW - Good video.
@@spikebebop9070 Thanks Spike!
Yup, they are expensive and worthy of taking good care of!!
Dude, take a used metal paint pan and old paint brush. Pour some Diesel in the pan. Clean the transmission as in hospital clean. Pour in 00 grade grease.
Yea, but it wont stay this way for long, dry grease doesnt last however. I'm thinking of trying Moly dry lube for axles. I'm using chain wax currently and things seem ok so far.
Either way it wont last as it didn't originally. The bigger issue is people just don't service these machines.
Thanks 4 watching and commenting!
@@harryharry3193 Jersey in the House!!lol
I'm using the same grease #2 thats in my grease gun, my bud gives it to me, they use it in al the heavy equipment at his job.
For the shafts I picked up some chain wax, goes on like a liquid and turn to a light grease that is like wax
I have a Toro22in mower AWD the rear is not working, the front drive is working how do I get the rear drive to work it's a auto drive
You just replace part after part after part till it's fixed.
front wheels are too weak on these. Mine started pullin to the left and its a real pain in my ass. I put new keys and pinions n rear tires and a couple weeks later its pullin left.
I have a large number of front wheel for replacement. What I have seen is the rubber wears off and once or twice I've seen them broken but then again, I go through hundreds every season of sooo many types of machines and ALL the wheels have issues!
Sounds like your transmission has an internal issue.. One wheel is being driven for some reason. Make sure both wheels drive with the same amount of turns and the front wheels are lubricated on the shaft with grease.
For around $95.00, you but the whole transmission assembly from MTD. That mower is close to $400.00 new. So, it's worth it if all else is ok.
I always try to fix the mower myself instead of sending it out. It's fun and gives me a sense of accomplishment.
@@MrMMMusic123 I agree.
That sticky #2 grease is waaaay too thick for the transmission. It will not flow and keep the gears properly lubed. Might as well use bubble gum. Get some Snapper 00 grade grease. It has a consistency of pudding. It will flow/sling and run without leaking out of the housing.
Good advice。 Thanks！
@@MrMMMusic123 advice from Rick James...nice.
That is a good idea. What I do is put a grease fitting in corner of cover opposite gear and fill with red and tacky.
When did you install the motor?
I would like to do this video again!
I find that removing the engine as soon as ya realize the transmission is bad is best! I dont remember now, its been a while since I made this video.
what about the new transmissions. got anting on those?
The new Plastic ones? not yet
@@TheNovaJohn they are significantly different and I can't find anything on them.
At 3:23, when you were showing the replacement transmission, it would have been nice to have more than one (1) second to see the gear (in focus) before you put the cover back on.
Agreed, one of my 1st videos. Camera wasn't that good and I was sooo new at this..
I think I have another machine like this out back, I really need to make an updated version.
Thanks for watching,,,,
I was thinking maybe every 4 years pull cover and clean it out and fill box with grease and grease wheels units
Generally I find service is needed about 4 seasons..BUT if its kept nice,, we dont need to do alot, just cleaning and a little lube in some areas!
The machines I get are a mess!!
I save everything off other mowers any more. Sometimes the parts you think are good are not. I save everything, but toss the worn out stuff.
On bigger projects, save everything until the project ot complete!
I'm saving most things, as I get more I try to go back through it all and keep the better parts..I call it UpSaving lol
Your right, sometimes the smallest thing is what ya need and ya just threw it out a week ago,,,Uuughh
Good strategy!
there plastic gears junk.. I just put a good metal gear drive on it... PROBLEM SOLVED ☺️
some of these wheels have plastic, especially now.
Did this instead. Never failed again. th-cam.com/video/RVK_po7BRZs/w-d-xo.html
Those gear boxes just don’t last very long and cost too much
Agreed!
I went through a bunch in this video and another as well, similar vid
Although these are great machines and if a person took care of it and lubricated this, wow, it could last a really long time!
Might as well grease the bottom of your beach sandals.
I now use chain wax, even dry lube is in a grease base!
You will never free up one of these when they are stuck without penetrant.
Those wheel covers do a good job of keeping crap out for a few years but nothing lasts long anyway,,
The factory used dry lube, its good for a couple of years and without service, I get them for free!
Haha! I might try that!
Smoking distracts from the video. I have never seen this before.
The whole video is very good...but the SMOKING is NOT....!!
Why, why would it bother you? Is it getting in your eyes? lol
@@TheNovaJohn Smoking causes cancer, heart disease, stroke, lung diseases, diabetes and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), which includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis..Smoking is the leading preventable cause of death in USA. Giving up smoking is difficult for many people. Every year more than 480,000 people die due to tobacco-related diseases, according to the American Cancer Society 1 in 5 of all deaths. Life expectancy is at least 10 years LESS for smokers compared with nonsmokers....!!
@@gingermarron True but the leading cause of death is food based/diet related not to mention health related in terms of health related disease / lifestyle.
I have diabetes, type 1 actually. I can assure you its not from smoking.
I don't drink, I don't live an unhealthy lifestyle. My daughter almost died before the age of 20 and not from anything other than the poison in the food and the vaccines.
Not that I disagree with you at all.
I'm in pain after from a crippling back injury and the doctors can figure out how I'm still alive after 2 near death experiences!
Most of the time I don't smoke while recording and working but sometimes I think I just enjoy it.
BTW the ACS is a joke, they waste almost every dollar they get on expenses and have done nothing for cancer. Don't get me started with this medical system, its really messed up, they cure nothing! I have known people with copd and they didn't smoke.
Not that I am justifying smoking, my buddies wife has a failing liver and continued to drink. I think its how she copes with life as her childhood was messed up. We are only human.
Thanks fer watching!
Arch, i picked up a used super recycler but found that the left side tire does not move when the self propel is engaged. It moves a bit but if I lift the mower the left wheel stops easily if I put my foot on it. Right side wheel has no issues, engages correctly. Any ideas?
have you taken the tire off yet?
@@TheNovaJohn took off the tire, found the rocking key broken..
@@TheNovaJohn Even with the rocking key replaced, I can turn the pulley and drive shaft turns but the gear never turns on the left wheel. ***Edit: needed to lubricate the rocking key. Now it works great
@@shawjoe71 Time to go into that transmission!
@@TheNovaJohn found that the rocking key was broken. $5.34 fixed!
do the new ones no longer have grease points for the rear wheels? my 2000 super recycler has them .
I don't know, Lawnboy uses the same transmission, some of them have grease fittings, some don't.
Go figure, most of the ones I've been through don't have grease fittings.