The Making of a Bassoon Reed
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ม.ค. 2014
- OMG 10k views! Who knew a 30 minute bassoon reed making video would be so popular!
If you want to watch this in fast motion, see my other video: • The Making of a Bassoo...
This is not a How-To guide for how I make my reeds. There are many resources available for information on how to use a cane processing tools like shapers and profilers, and many guides for dozens of ways to make blanks, and even more guides for testing procedures and reed finishing strategies. I'm not going to really talk about any of that here.
What this is, is a walkthrough of me making a reed, from beginning to end, without any steps left out, and to do it all in real-time. I do this so you can see the process done by an expert reed maker that makes and sells many reeds every month.
I'm happy to answer any questions about any stage of my reed making process.
Key equipment:
Argendonax gouged cane
Custom straight shaper
MD Reeds Profiler
Rieger forming mandrel
22g brass wire
Pliers
Cotton thread and Duco cement
Rieger drying rack
Rieger spiral and diamond reamers
Rieger rotating tip cutter
Rimpl tip profiler (The "Ultimate" Reed Finishing matchine)
Big beveled knife (made from a multi-purpose tool handle and a jointer knife blade)
Triangular swiss file
Cutting block
Holy crap! more than 1000 views in 4 months! - เพลง
I am an oboist and I have been making reeds for almost 50 years. I totally understand and agree with you that once the cane is gouged and shaped, tied and rough scraped, then getting it broken in by drying it and wetting it and drying it and wetting it over a period of a couple of weeks is a very essential step which demands patience, after a rough scrape before focusing on final adjustments for a Concert reed. I also believe that a slower process extends the life greatly on each of my reeds.
The true character of the grain fibers and the shape will eventually settle. From fiber to fiber within the structure of the cane, which is naturally imperfect considering there is soft cane and hard cane. I believe aged cane is extremely important as well. Every couple of years I will purchase one or 2 kilos of cane and let it age another one or two years. The aperture’s of my reeds are much more consistent in my opinion, when the cane has been aged proficiently and gone through wetting and drying out periods.
I play bassoon, but I hate it for two reasons. The reeds that you buy from a store are never the best quality, and they are ridiculously expensive. But, making them is also ridiculously expensive. Stupid bassoon. But I love it.
Michael Corcoran 😂
I play oboe, English Horn, and now bassoon ... I feel your pain.
.....Fantastic presentation Trent. Organized and informative.
It is so hard to make a bassoon reed...My bassoon teacher make it for me, but I really want to make it alone,but I haven't any instruments for that...
This video is very useful for bassooners..Thank you!
Glad I play the trumpet!
great video! I'm going to try a file for beveling now instead of just sandpaper. I hope you got sponsorship from Rieger!
Outstanding! Thank you, Trent!
Hi Trent, A wonderfully instructive video... Thank you!
Ook! [Damn. How glad i am that i am not playing woodwinds (can't actually even if i wanted to). On the other hand - it takes very special dedication above and beyond the normal instrument technique.]
Welp, there goes my bassoon playing dreams.
Excellent.
Okay. I think my problem is I set that the tip to be very thin and not leaving anything for a bit of knife work.. m happy with the basic template. Thank you once again. fantastic video
Great video, I just watched it again. The Rimple looks great, I have a TA machine. good point about ripping the corners if you aren't careful. Both do a longer profile. What bassoon is that? I like the high F key.
It's a Moosmann model 222. I like having the high F key but I wish it wasn't on the really tall posts on its own.
sax/clarinet player here. Kinda jealous, i only say that cause my brain loves this kind of work. Might pick up on this eventually.
I started experimenting with soda bottle plastic and aluminum from soda cans.
great video!!! whats your setting on your tip profiler? Wonderful machine, but im struggling to find a good reed thickness on the setting..
+Arno Steyn The setting on the Rimpl machine isn't static. The individual template isn't set exactly to the dial, so there's no metric I can share with my settings. I use the "standard" template, and just have the thickness adjusted. My profiler is set to take more out of the center than the tip profiler would leave, and I scrape some more out of the top of the "thumbnail" shape left by the tip profiler.
Great video! Very thorough. One question: would this work for making contra reeds? I am thinking it might help to keep the low register dark, but the upper register can be really thin as well. I have a mandrel but I need a profiler for my contra! :)
Generally speaking, I use the same method of forming the blank when making contra reeds. The bevel increases the fulcrum and causes the tip to open more when adjusted with the 2nd and 1st wires. It does make the reeds more buzzy until they've broken in - just like the bassoon reeds made in this method. I don't have a profiler or tip profiler for contra reeds though, I buy profiled cane (shape it myself) and hand scrape to finish. The profile I get doesn't require much finishing work.
Hello Trent, may I ask about your pre-cut lengths of wire? Are these something you pre-made or able to purchase? Great video.
+Guadalupe Esquivel Jr. I cut them myself. They're made straight by simply grabbing both ends of the wire and pulling a bit. I don't straighten them anymore though, never found it made any real difference in how the wire functioned, and it was time consuming.
Just got an md profiler was wondering what numbers do you find work best for you? really liked your tone.
The numbers are not universal. A setting of a 3 on my machine won't turn out the same as a 3 on your machine. If you want to check with a dial indicator, my thickness at the center collar is about .95mm (yes, that thin!).
That's interesting Trent. Why don't you use a bunson burner to heat your forming mandral ? It will help the wood retain its form rather than putting it on a pin for 2 weeks.
Scot King Heating the cane in that extreme changes it. I prefer to let time do the job. It's a Herzbergian concept: like rolling a piece of paper into a tube, you let it sit there for a few weeks and it will want to stay in that shape. They're both ways to get to the end result if you know how to manage it, I just prefer to keep my cane from getting too hot.
Hey I'm learning to make bassoon reeds but i don't know the difference between the different types of cane. Would you mind telling a brief description of them also what are the measurements of the wires? Thanks in advance.
+Green4544 Your question about the differences between cane is really far too broad for any real good answer. The most important feature I generally find is that you get something that is consistently selected and processed, that you can learn how to finish effectively. If you're buying gouged/shaped/profiled cane, finding the brand that provides the closest and most consistent profile is usually the trickiest thing. The quality of the cane isn't really as important. If you're doing that processing yourself, you just have to try different cane and see what will work out for you.
I have learned over the years that I like concentrically gouged cane, and don't particularly like really wide dimensions at the collar for the shape, for instance.
My wire measurements are: 4.5mm from the end of the tube, 40mm from the fold, and 32mm from the fold, with the collar at 30mm from the fold.
How often do you need to get your tip profiling machine blade replaced? And how much does it generally cost to do that?
Hans Fronberg I've had the machine since 2007? And have never needed to replace or sharpen the blade. Still profiles very cleanly.
Hi Trent, I appreciate you making this video and all the comments you also post on IDRS. I have a quick question regarding your MD Profiler
I too own an MD. I was wondering what settings do you have the thickness-adjustment knobs that are numbered on the rolling platform? I have been experimenting with these parameters for a while now trying to find a setting that uses the machine to its fullest potential and saving time during the finishing process.
Richard Blake I don't know that the numbers are universal. I know when I last changed the blade on the profiler I had to adjust the numbers slightly to get back to a thickness I was happy with. I'm not at home to look at the machine now but I'll try to remember to check it when I'm home and reply in a new comment.
One thing that might be quite important to note is that I had the profiler made with a round barrel stem, so there is absolutely no spine in the profile. This will obviously change what general/overall thickness you would prefer.
Richard Blake My numbers right now are exactly 6 (tip) and 4 (collar).
Trent Jacobs That is fascinating with the round barrel stem. What made you decide that you wanted no spine in the profile? I've been "raised" to treat the spine very carefully in my reed making because a great deal of support comes from the back center. To take hardness out you then shave the "rails" of the reed if the reed is too thick. Obviously with a dial indicator I make sure my back and spine areas are not over 35 (thousands of an inch). Thanks so much for getting back to me!
I've never liked the response characteristics of reeds made with a spine. Contra is a different story.
好厲害!可惜學校沒有教如何製作吹嘴，在台灣也找不太到做吹嘴的師傅。
I've recently begun making my own reeds and, being in the poor student musician phase, can not afford a tip profiler. Would you have any tips on scraping from start to finish and how many sessions of scraping this should go over?
+Steph That's a full 20 minute video alone really. I would say you could easily do the finishing scrape in a single session, then adjust over a break-in period, but the trouble is knowing the profile that you're coming from. Basically, if you have an end goal in mind in terms of the scrape pattern, and you know what your profile is going into the final scrape, you can plan your finishing scrape and do it effectively.
The problem for a tutorial video is that you are probably buying GSP cane that is WAY too hard (they all are, I haven't found very many GSP sources that are really nearly as close to final scrape as I profile my own cane to) and it will take patience and a lot of scraping to get it to final thickness. If you find some cane that is closer to what you want *your* final scrape to be, it's a lot easier. At any rate, no single guide will really be good for you, as knowing how much to take off and from where assumes a certain starting point: the profile, which is variable depending on what you're getting.
There is trouble with written text on this subject, most of it being super technical in nature and not really very practical for the learning beginner reed maker. This for exampel: www.2reed.net/EwellArticles/ReedAdjustingNew.pdf is an amazing source of information, but it's Super dense and really difficult to digest if you don't already really know what he's talking about.
I'm a band student who will play basoon I will receive it September 5th but I don't know what do about reeds any should I buy.thing is won't be able to make reeds due to me being just a 11 year old but what reeds do you recommend plz respond soon
There are many reputable reed makers and double reed supply shops that sell good reeds. You can purchase from me directly if you want, from tjbassoon.com - I also suggest checking out Midwest Musical Imports (call and ask for Katie for suggestions)
Can I ask what is usually the diameter of the bottom end of the reed? I want to know if I can fit one in my Guan Zi as an experiment ;)
+Chartre Khan the bocal the reed goes on measures 5mm diameter when measured with my little caliper. There's a bit more room to make the reed bigger, but not much.
Wow! The reed I have for my Guan Zi is more than double that! And about 18mm in width on the end which is roughly similar to a large bassoon reed I think. The reeds on a Guan Zi go inside the instrument rather than over a bocal, so I could still try a bassoon reed, but it would requiere extensive wrapping with string.Thanks :)
Yes, GuanZi has a very short and wide reed compared to a bassoon. Quite different.
I might have missed it in the video, but how did you open the tip of the read?
collin petry happens at the 17:20 mark.
Thanks
Out of curiosity, what brand Reed knife were you using?
+Jeffrey Wasik It's a 6 inch Freud brand jointer knife inserted into a modified multipurpose file and tool handle. I did recently start using a Rigotti double hollow ground knife for the final scrape except that I still like the jointer knife (which is beveled style) for doing the collar cut. I've refined my profiler and tip profiler setup that I don't need to do much knife scraping at all anymore.
The bassoon reeds I get from a professor that works with our school have only two wires. They look a little shorter then yours. Would there be any difference.
I have never encountered a bassoon reed with only two wires. My guess is that you just don't see the third wire under the wrapping, but it's there.
Every bassoon reed maker makes their reeds a little (or a lot) differently, so my reeds will play and sound different compared to what you have tried from other reed makers. Maybe you would like them, maybe you wouldn't.
Thanks just wasn't sure. I only started at the beginning of the year.
Which clef does Bassoon play with?
+Rosebud-Lynn Euneice We mostly learn on bass clef at first, but professionals play a lot of tenor clef as well. Very difficult music even goes high enough that we see treble clef!
Omg 0.0 !! French horn as far as I know we get as low as Bass Clef. Some of us use our Bb side..But I'm not that experienced.. I'm only a Intermediate/Advanced student..Haven't experienced with it yet..I'm just starting to hit my D & E on the line and space..
can you recommend me a bassoon making kit I can buy online? I recently changed to bassoon from clarinet. i thought 20-30 dollars for a box of 10 clarinet reeds was expensive now $20 for one single bassoon reed put me in a slight shock so I rather save money in the long run making my own. I looked on amazon, but none of the kits have reviews . I don't know where to buy the tools from. please reply .
These: store.mmimports.com/bassoon-reed-making-kits/ are what I'd recommend. It's expensive to get started, but worth it in the end.
+Trent Jacobs thank you ! also what kind of cane should I get?
Highly subjective question. Try lots of different types of GSP cane from different suppliers and find what you get some consistent results with.
can I use it 4 a zurna ?
+Solomon Pilot No, they're completely different.
Trent Jacobs thanks where can I get zurna reeds , can you make me one ?
I have no idea. I know almost nothing about a zurma. eBay?
What a weird thumb rest. Very interesting.
Is that the shaper I made you some time ago?
Craig! I was just talking about you yesterday that I hadn't heard from you in a long time. It's the shape, yes, but the shaper was made by Fox based on cane I shaped on the prototype you made for me.
Wait this is the old video. Yeah it might be the one you made for me here. Before I had the shape made at 116mm length by Fox.
@@TrentJacobs After you sold the bassoon I restored kind of quit and sold all stuff. Getting some inheritance so I am thinking about giving it another try. One thing I have always wanted to learn and life is too short. Hope I can find the models of the shaper so I can make one. Have to buy all the tools again.
Is there a way we can communicate?
Have you ever gotten tired of making these? I mean is it worth it, is a bassoon really this great?
It's my livelihood. So I think anyone that does anything for a living gets "tired" of doing the thing every now and then, but hopefully you do the things you love. :-)
hey mr.jacobs do you sell your reeds
tjbassoon.com/reeds
thank you so much
Just a Alto Saxophone player passing by.
Aren't you glad you don't have to do this stuff? ;-)
Lol yes.
Can you buy bassoon reeds?
Egriff123 someone has to make them!
well yes but can you buy them from a music store or whatever
Depends on the music store. You can often buy them directly from reed makers, such as myself, or from a bassoon specialty store. Your local music shop probably doesn't carry very good bassoon reeds if they have any.
okay thank you
im the only bassoon player in my school... probably all middle schools in my district lol rip
I play clarinet
U should send me a read
I can make you a duplicate.
can i have free reeds :^)