Some people are really shocked by the idea that, if a minor has a crush on an adult, it's the adult's responsibility to enforce appropriate boundaries.
exactly this! i dont get why its such a hard concept for people to understand. teens have crushes on adults and celebs and youtubers all the time, but that doesnt make it okay if the adult reciprocates
Totally makes sense having a crush on an adult as a kid / teen maybe an actor or singer or smt, but that means the adult has more responsibilities right now because children are qualified as under 18 which means they can’t give proper consent (at least in America). If the adult screws up it can lead to disastrous effects. Very similar to how police are held to a higher standard than normal people because they hold power, hence why dirty cops sends shockwaves through the system while a normal person commiting the same exact crime is barely a blip on the radar. I fail to see how people are surprised by this.
^^^^^^^^!!!!!! it’s fine to inform minors that they shouldn’t hit on adults (they shouldn’t!) but at the end of the day if the adult acts on it, it’s still that adult’s fault!!!
I was the 12 year old girl that Shane kissed, and I want to agree with you and emphasize the point that you made, “it’s not about whether or not shane intended to do this.” You are 1000% right - it doesn’t matter whether he intended to create this image and reputation where he sexualized children, the fact is that he did. He did it whether he knew the implications of it or not, and it affected real people.
Wow, it is crazy to hear you speak out! You are strong for coming forward, especially on the internet where people can be awful. I watched shane a lot when I was 12 and I, like you, had the content normalized. Are you okay now? I hope you are well.
Fully this, I was groomed and it's so hard because they use that idea that they "didn't mean to" against you so much, particularly with my abuser (I'm not sure if Shane was the same) he used this idea that he was just being totally innocent and people were just assuming the worst about him because he's a bigger man and everyone's so judgemental about men being affectionate and friendly towards children like. He full on groped my friends boobs. He put his hand on my thigh and left it there for several minutes once and did not ask first. Did I mention he was a fucking teacher at my school. He crossed so many boundaries and then told me that people were judging him unfairly to gaslight me about my discomfort and make me feel irrational and mean for being afraid of him, I don't care if genuinely didn't mean to make me feel those things, I don't care if he genuinely thought his behaviour was appropriate, he still made me uncomfortable and gave me trauma, he still crossed boundaries, if he really cared that much he should have just stopped, it's so easy, but he didn't. A person doesn't have to be trying to hurt you to be in the wrong for hurting you. Shane had no right to kiss you no matter why he decided to do it. Even if he's telling the truth 100% as he experienced it he's still in the wrong.
Honestly couldn’t care less if he “intended” to or not. How little empathy and foresight does he have to not think about his actions a bit? It reeks of entitled privilege that he’s never had to contemplate his actions and can use others as pawns for some joke
i don't think we should dismiss the idea of shane being a genuine racist in his past. black women would call him out for his behavior and he called them *apes* in response.. he even said after educating himself on the blackface of the '20s, he still did it because he did not care at all :/
also a lot of his comments outside of sketches were degrading towards black women, insulting their hair and tying that to them being black, and when talking about his friend he said something along the lines of "she doesn't know what she's doing, she can't make a video- i mean, she's *black*" or something like that
EXACTLY!! people act like just because it was 10 years ago its okay.. racism and pedophilia has always been bad, people just didnt pay as much attention to it as we are now
Yeah my theory is a lot of people going around parroting that were like 3 back then so it really does seem like a whole different era to them. But then it's like how are you gonna tell me what was normal back then when you weren't even there. I couldn't necessarily articulate why at thirteen or so, but I remember being super uncomfortable with some of his blackface content that I came across. It was clear to me even then that his "jokes" were at the expense of black people, laughing at them not with them. He went out of his way to exaggerate and perpetuate stereotypes and for lack of a better word kinda grotesque-ify them? Like that clip that d'angelo compared to minstrel shows is so clearly supposed to strike you as like. scary and ugly. Whether it was his "intention" or not he encouraged people to look down on black people with disdain and believe negative stereotypes about them.
When Shane said, “that’s how our family is” as an excuse, that truly sickened me. Like Jarvis said, the normalization of abuse is horrific, and Shane still tries to justify it.
exactly. because in those “family” situations, his young female relatives probably felt pressured to just go along with the “joke”, because if they expressed discomfort, their family might treat them like they were the problem, instead of their grown ass male relative sexualizing them. in families where this kind of stuff is normalized, abuse often goes unreported. It’s really messed up that he used his own family like that, and it’s even more messed up that it’s taken THIS damn long for people to call him out for it.
Well, then consider: where did his values come from? Perhaps his own family? It doesn't excuse him, but perhaps we should try to figure out not just WHAT he did, but WHY.
@@maddygreenb that's almost worse. A victim making excuses for the abuser. Idk much about abuse but to me that's so much worse for the victim not understanding what they are going through. Abuse needs to be talked about more. Someone I know was sexually abused and didn't know till they talked about it in school. And if we don't bring it up more than they may realise that they shouldn't try to excuse abuse. That's just what I think tho haha
to any sexual assault survivors (or anyone in general) who needs to hear this: what happened to you was *not your fault,* i promise you. you werent “leading them on,” you arent “too sensitive” for letting it affect you, and no matter what happened, no matter how “small” or “insignificant” some people (even yourself) may think the event was, you have the right to be distraught. you have the right to be traumatized, even. you have the right to call yourself a survivor. dont let anyone tell you otherwise.
Growing up in a town that was 99% white, nearly every kid thought Shane in black face was funny. His comments on raping young girls was also funny to everyone. I can’t express how detrimental these “jokes” were for people’s perceptions of the world and even their understanding of what humor can be.
i can laugh about that from a different perspective, but i also see the problems coming with it. Therefor I don´t laugh because of the jokes, but because it´s unreal how dumb that shit is. I think younger folks are missing that insight, and thats the problem. You know, even a smart kid, still is a kid.
I was in middle school when Shane first started making content on TH-cam. Someone from school found his content and made him popular in our local teen community. I always found his humour gimmicky, offensive and just ... low fruit-hanging, even before political correctness was a known thing to us. I honestly cannot understand why people perpetuate and support shocking humour that's based on the humiliation and pain of others. I'm glad my parents taught me not to place my joy on others' suffering; I thought it was a granted and given thing. But I guess not since it doesn't seem like all parents teach their kids such things.
Cerise #23 thats the problem. a lot of parents arent attentive to what their kids are watching on the internet. im not saying we need more helicopter parents, but if your kid is watching something they shouldnt be watching, instead of banning them from watching it, explain to them why its wrong. when no one is there to explain why things are wrong, kids are essentially groomed by the internet.
Yeah, there’s having a dark sense of humor and then there’s throwing shit at the wall to see what upsets people. There’s a line between when its funny and when it just turns into tastelessness
I have a pretty edgy sense of humour myself but I'm no Shane about it. I don't use racism or homophobia as the punchline. I like to use real life situations to set the scene (some of which contain that stuff) and then make the joke afterwards. The joke should never be 'black people, am I right?" because that's just awful comedy and doesn't make people feel good.
I️ 100% believe that Shane and Onision were a HUGE part of the reason so many people in my generation were sexually exploited over the Internet. They made it seem normal, and funny, and cool as people that so many children looked up to. That, combined with the Internet boom and the unprecedented access that abusers had to children online is absolutely the reason so many people around my age were sexually abused via the Internet. They should never be forgiven, given second chances, and I️ don’t want to hear their apologies. You don’t make these jokes and videos without some truth to them, otherwise it would be too hard for the creator to stomach.
makes me shiver to think about all the abuse that happened because of the culture they promoted. i think the number of young minds that were corrupted by these harmful teachings and ended up getting abused later because it's normalized, is uncountable.
I was an African American fan of Shane Dawson and I think I can safety say that he fed into my internalized racism at age like 12. Watching his content did make me feel like “ooh im watching this raunchy content -!and getting away with it” and it’s not until now i’m like really uncomfortable
You know, now that I'm getting older and more educated, I realize a lot of the messed up stuff I used to be ok with or laugh at. A lot of comedians I used to like I hate now because of the sexism, and racism. And I mean there are good jokes for those topics but you know, many aren't. I wish I could've realized this sooner but age and maturity at least hit me when I was 18
And man, when I learned the term internalized racism, I initially dismissed it. Thought this is just another thing ppl were whining about but wasn't real. But I see it more and more in my actions and thoughts and the ppl around me. So imbedded that we can't see it quick enough and the older generation will never learn. Thanks for reminding me that I'm making progress in seeing this stuff
It's kind of like Michael in the office. He made racist remarks and such, but he was the butt of the joke because he was being mean and was so clearly out of touch. They didn't make fun of poc, they made fun of Michael for making fun of poc.
exactly. i'm in no way supporting those jokes, but at least the writers stopped, they read the room. they didn't make any racist jokes past season 3 ( i wanna say at least, could've been 4)(also, there coulda been a joke ive forgotten) .
@@Nothingtoseehere-eo7zq yeah he made the “barrack is president” “joke” during the fire drill episode. They might have toned it down a bit but it was still problematic lol
I think the whole "it was a different time" argument only makes sense when you're asked why someone didn't get cancelled for that kind of behavior sooner. It doesn't mean that behavior was okay back then, it just means not as many people were paying attention to it as they are now in the same way they are now.
and i think that's a good reason to reflect on why so many people let stuff like this slide under the radar back then and not do it anymore going forward.
"Back then" Shane did get in trouble. He got fired from his job, his mom and brother also got fired. There were consequences and Shane still is mad about the fact that he got fired.
He got fired, he has struggled getting sponsors, he's had transient friendships, he has gotten backlash on and off. Actors didn't want to be on his "film." Zachary Quinto panned it before it even came out. He had consequences and backlash. He just ignored it. And he's still self righteous that he ever had any to begin with.
@@petrichorbones I think it's cuz he made a content switch. He at some point stopped doing his weird skits, and started making more trendy content like "cinnamon challenge" type things. He jumped on bandwagons that got lots of views so I'm guessing that's part of how it happened?
I’m a teacher. My students range in age from 11 to 19. Thank you for addressing the overwhelming cultural problem which expects young people to be the responsible party in any relationship (no matter the nature of that relationship) between a child or teenager, and an adult. All of my students, even the eldest, are incapable of thinking actions through to consequences. And the thought of a legitimate grown up exploiting that developmental stage makes my blood boil.
Also teens often associate relationships as friendships because that is the lens they know. A teen may see their favourite teacher or uncle/aunt as a “buddy” or “friend” that is normal HOWEVER it is still up to the adult to recognize this child is not your “friend” and to uphold the boundaries of that relationship.
I think a lot of people don’t understand that the reason it was “a different time” and “it was normalized back then” is BECAUSE OF SHANE. You need to remember that he was essentially one of the first TH-camrs, he was also very popular at the time. He started normalizing this shock humor on TH-cam and getting other content creators in on it as well. If that makes sense.
But there's a lot of many TH-camrs with shock humor or dark humor and is not creepy. Example, Filthy Frank, he's like the father of modern TH-cam humor. His content may not appeal to you, but his dark humor and satire was done right. Shane on the other hand is just... well, wrong.
I think the It's Always Sunny episode is a great way of showing why Shane is so gross with blackface humor. In its always sunny the humor is supposed to be: omg she looks like such an offensive loser. Because in the show she is. You're SUPPOSED to not like her. You're supposed to root against the pathetic girl who thinks blackface is funny. In Shane Dawson's videos you're supposed to laugh at the negative black stereotype he's projecting and root for him. Gross.
Same lol. I mean I think about the times where I used to watch a lot of youtube and it was people like shane and onision who really normalized this kind of content like yikess
Shane Dawson is literally young enough to be my child. Blackface has NEVER been inoffensive, even back in the days of segregation - there was always an entire population that saw it as being offensive. "It was a different time" is a piss poor excuse for anybody's behavior. When enslavement was legal (well, it still kinda is, but I digress), people knew it was all the way wrong. Shane is the poster boy for "If trash was a person." Also, I don't even welcome discussions from white people about racism - nobody has the right to tell me how I should interpret anti-Black behaviors. Some chick on a YT comment tried explaining Blackface to me, and girlfriend learned that day.
Say it louder for the people in the back people need to stop getting upset over getting held accountable for their actions if Shane has changed as a person then great maybe maybe he could be forgiven but he's shown no proof he's changed and apologies don't have to be accepted people shouldn't just be like "well I apologized so I'mma go back to what I was doing"
When you say that white people shouldn't talk about racism do you mean like manspleaning but from white people to other ethnicities or that white people shouldn't have an opinion on racism at all (Sorry if my question is dumb, it probably is, but it's only to be sure to understand) ? Other than that question I totally agree with what you are saying
@@definitelysomething4161 if I understood them correctly people who aren't being hurt by the problem shouldn't have a big say on what is a part of the problem.
I was in middle school when Shane first started. I watched him and when he started doing the blackface bits...it made me uncomfortable. I knew it was gross and not really comedy and I stopped watching. Even kids can pick up on when things are wrong. So to say he, as a grown man, couldn’t tell it was racist and in bad taste... idk.
go off queen!! it literally makes me so mad when people use the excuse "it was a different time," like whether it was 1 year ago or 50 years ago it doesnt matter, its still extremely harmful and wrong? i remember reading the comments of shanes newest apology video and being so upset because of how blindly his followers would accept his apology and excuse his actions, even though he didnt address everything hes done.
Honestly, you left out the worst parts of Hey Millie- the parts where they joke about how she was raped by her father, how another character threatens to rape her, and everyone is laughing.
I found d'angello wallace through the shane dawson a year and a bit ago. I skipped through it and 12-13 yr old me was horrified. I don't remember much, and I'm not going to search it up, but I felt physically sick. It just felt blatantly creepy and ick.
I’ve never understood the “don’t take away his career though” comments. If he had any other job, this would absolutely get him fired immediately. I need to worry about what I post on Instagram because my employers may see it. The difference is that these youtubers are self employed and can just keep posting like nothing ever happened, if they feel like it. I wish TH-cam could pull the plug honestly.
also like... if a content creator doesn't deserve their platform taken away for essentially grooming children, doing minstrelcy/blackface, and sensationalizing mental illness, then what's the line here? that certainly seems like enough to make me think he doesn't deserve the platform he has
It makes me so upset thinking he will forever make a good living because too many people and this platform do NOT hold him accountable. He doesn't deserve what he has at all, it was all built on the expense of other people. He's done nothing to deserve all the money he has and it's so not fair that these people are set for life when everyone else is fighting to pay rent.
Shane also went on a podcast and "jokingly" fantasized, in extreme detail, exactly how he wishes he could humiliate, torture, and eventually murder a co-worker on his film who called him out for his racism. It's... really gruesome and horrible, and all because she called him out on his bullshit. He claims it's a joke, but that leaves two options: either he is lying and just claiming it's a joke to try to get a pass, or he thinks that publically fantasizing about brutally murdering coworkers is funny. He also accused her of being mentally ill and said that talking about her like this on the podcast would probably drive her over the edge before proceeding to do so anyways. I don't remember which podcast, but I heard the audio in mörges' overview of many of the horrible things Shane's tried to avoid addressing directly and it is just... Horrifying. And not normal. At all. Who the hell not only fantasizes about torturing and murdering a co-worker, but thinks it's perfectly okay to cheerfully describe this fantasy to the entire internet, in detail? The only funny thing about Shane is that he goes around labeling other people as having all these mental disorders and claiming he's an empath because in reality people with a decent amount of empathy don't behave like this. (Also, empaths don't constantly flex that they're an empath to get people to trust them. They just behave in an actually empathetic manner and earn that trust, Shane).
From experience, if they say they're an empath often enough or mention being an INFJ and how great/rare they are... Keep a very close eye on what they do. Not to say everyone is a manipulator with those qualities, but look out for red flags bc they use it as a stepping stool to their high horse of "look im a good person, see!" rather than their actions.
@@connorxx7180 INFJs aren't even necessarily the most empathic personality. The J stands for Judgement for a reason. My mother is an INFJ and she's an abusive narcissist. Spent half my life mocking me for having no friends and forcing me to take on various responsibilities with no experience, direction, or guidance and then humiliating me in public when I didn't know how to do them and asked for help because I had reached an age where I should already have known how to do this, even though she'd never teach me how. I still have major issues with things like job interviews and college professors and guidance centers because I'm still scared of asking for help, trying new things, and facing authority figures whose judgements will affect my life because I fear that I'll fail and receive no help or those authority figures will find me as unworthy of help or positive feedback as my own mother. Even as an adult my mother's never taken responsibility for how she's treated me - every time I try to sit down and explain my feelings because I want to have some kind of actual relationship with her, she blames me for "holding grudges" and having been a difficult child to raise. My mother was capable of empathy - just seemingly not towards me. So I know first hand that INFJs are capable of great cruelty. The biggest joke? She's a social worker. She's worked with the Red Cross at disasters all over the US and with critically wounded soldiers flown back for care from all over the world for years and years and years. As an adult looking back at the arc of her life and the stories of what she was like when she was younger, I suspect she always had a controlling streak but the bad turn may have come from her beginning to suffer from Compassion Fatigue; I can only speculate, though, because she's never been mentally examined since she insists everyone else in the family are the ones with mental issues. I think she's just so hung up on the idea that she's the normal one and she's the one who can help everyone and she's the one who knows best that she never helped herself and she considered none of my ordinary problems valid or deserving of help because I wasn't literally dying, and she never listened to anyone else's opinions on her behavior because, in her mind, they had their own issues preventing them from seeing the correct way whereas she knew best. She was apparently a very good person at one point. I just never met that person.
the biggest difference with Bo is that the jokes are worded in a way that you understand that the punchline is aimed at the offender, not at the victim. So even though it's funny, you understand perfectly that it's very wrong
This is something many comedians can note of too. There’s a difference between making jokes about these serious topics and making “jokes” that are really just insults. This is why Dave Chapelle is so successful. He knows how to frame his jokes about sensitive topics in a way that isn’t insulting or harmful. He knows how to make people think about said topic.
@@beingme._.eilonwy4571this did not age well considering literally all he has done since this comment was posted is make insulting, punching down type jokes at trans people. his latest special is barely comedy at all, just him talking about how he dosen't understand trans people.
So tired of “comedians” ripping on their audience for “not being able to take a joke”. You failed at being funny, so, as an audience, we have every right to judge the content of the “comedy” if your execution was poor.
(In my opinion)There are 2 types of offensive comedy: 1 is to mock such hate and use it as a means of satire to make people look at an issue. 2 is to spread a negative opinion and/hate over a particular race, etcetera. Shane fits more in my second category.
@@user-ec9rm2kx3j Yeah, I get what you are saying and I agree. I guess I am really young and didn’t really watch Shane at that time. If some people at that time found his comedy funny, then it would make sense. But if this guy had to apologise multiple times for his offensive content, then maybe it wasn’t funny at all. I felt his content was offensive comedy but it was blatant and unfunny.
@@user-ec9rm2kx3j for me I class Type one as Dark Humor it's about Dark Subjects but is not meant to Mock people who aren't absolute pieces of shit. Type two is plain old offensive humor
A lot of guys on Instagram make really sexist (and rape) jokes and every time I try to convey how bad those make me feel I get the: "you have no taste in humor"/"it's a joke, stop complaining" replies. Jokes can be considered as such as long as people don't get hurt and feel bad about speaking up to those feelings, that's simply my opinion tho.
I also love Jordan's speech about cancel culture, because I'm so tired of hearing cancel culture cold takes. Like, cyberbullying is bad, and groupthink is generally bad, but deciding to criticize or just withdraw support from a creator who says or does bigoted things is completely within one's rights.
Exactly! And often times the people are never truly canceled as their devout fan base will always excuse their behavior. Accountability is not a bad thing.
It's super weird I was totally an adult during that time and never found him funny or his 'comedy' unproblematic. So the "it was a different time" argument is at BEST saying "I was ignorant and did not care to educate myself."
Funny thing is is that the people who say that act like he was doing this shit in the 80s. No, it was just 2012 and it was common sense that explicit racism and pedophilia was wrong.
Steelo tbh people was getting away with a lot of things during that time. Being offensive was a cheap and new way to be funny. However, his humor was not funny and was simply ignorant. I agree he should be accountable. Though, I’m concerned with the amount of child related videos he made
if it really WAS a different time, shane wouldn't have been called out by anyone but he WAS. he was called out countless times by francesca ramsey, a big creator and he saw that criticism, didn't hear any of it and just attacked her. jarvis also said that obviously his own fans wouldn't call him out because they're his fans (they're also almost all kids) just like how white supremacists won't call out donald trump's racism.
@@sademouton7391 I disagree with calling Shane's "humor" ignorant. Like Jarvis said, TH-cam was a smaller community *when Shane started his channel* but by 2014, it was known worldwide. Shane Dawson didn't start changing his image until 2015, months after his directorial debut flopped *because he ignored critics and the advice of experienced producers to change his "humor" * but Shane didn't take down his old content. No matter how much he was called out or how many times he apologized, Shane Dawson maintained his "old" humor on his channel until it got exposed this year. *TL;DR: Shane Dawson wasn't ignorant because he cared more about making himself seem like the good guy and less about being the good guy.*
Not only was he not funny it was an offensive propaganda poorly disguised as “edgy jokes”. He almost cultivated a community of an un empathetic people. People are still like this because of him.
Another little thing relating to Bo and that last line from New Math, there's actually a clip from a concert around 2010 where there's a group of fifteen year old girls and some other audience members are getting rowdy and Bo's being pretty sweet and protective of the girls, and some guy in the crowd shouts that line to be funny, and Bo says to him "could you just stand over by that security guard for the rest of the show?" I just feel like that really demonstrates how aware he was of the responsibility he had with his young fans and setting appropriate boundaries.
i see it as a time where cancel culture didnt exist. im still legitimately confused as to how shane got as big and popular as he did bc i was a child and avoided him bc i thought his content was uncomfortable and unfunny lol
Loved their Bo Burham moment. I will never forget how in one of his shows he just straight up makes a statement about not raping people and people CHEERED in the audience. He also made a song about the fragility of straight white males called....."Straight White Males". Bo makes content appropriate for his and his audience's age. He matured as he goes.
also, bo doesn't just say offensive stuff, he forms it as a joke. shane literally just did black face and did cringy and just straight up bad stereotypical stuff. bo is a great comedian bc he knows where the line is and dances around it, he doesn't just do a long jump right over
Hell that "Just don't fucking rape people! Didn't think I'd have to write that down for you" line is from the song "From God's Perspective", which is literally calling out the absurdness of religious beliefs, and again, he says shocking statements, but he isn't directly attacking religious people, even giving a good end message of " Hey, you're all so focused on whether you go to Heaven or not when you die, why not instead make Earth Heaven, and focus on the now?"
Vulpax 84 I honestly love that one part in the song where he says “My love’s the type of thing that you have to earn. And when you earn it, you won’t need it.” It hits so hard for me and like omg, this is why he’s my only favorite comedian.
Exactly. In its always sunny, the comedy is to look down on Dee who is a pathetic girl who thinks blackface is funny and ok. In Shane's videos you're supposed to look down on black people for their stereotypes and THEYRE the butt of the joke instead of the character.
And the ASIP scene also valid satire in the context presented - as it is definitely highlighting actual problems poc in the US deal with. So, it’s a great example of nuance in the use of blackface. Personally, I would like to see it not be used at all, because it is hurtful to too many people and the point can be made better without resorting to blackface or other tropes which have backlash against people on the margins rather than representing them well. It’s about beneficence for me, and Shane is devoid of it.
@@alexisd6106 yeah, absolutely. The difference to me is that in these shows, the butt of the joke is how dumb the person doing blackface is. For Shane, being black is the joke. The blackface IS the joke the him rather than being a vehicle to say “look how stupid and racist this is”
Why does there need to be a difference. Both are bad both are inappropriate. Doing black face to make fun of doing black face is still Blackface and still offensive and mocking and dehumanizing. Just don't do it it's not that hard.
17:19 also imagine being a fan of shane and actually being sexually abused and then seeing this as a child?? it totally makes it seem like a normal and even laughable thing so i can definitely see how this could literally deter a kid from speaking up about that
I remember seeing that on one of his channels n I laughed…I was young too…..it’s scary that I thought it was funny n okay n I’m over here like “omg!!! Lucky!!!”….looking back now I feel disgusted n disturbed n a cringe like feeling
True. He picked that up from Tom Lehrer - who was also criticized and boycotted, by the way, but his and Bo's music and comedy skits were self-aware and commentated a thing or two about society, unlike Shane's.
Yeah, he actually does jokes correctly. He sets up the jokes and then makes a statement that would get people to think, “Hmm... that seems a bit...” but then adds the punchline. It’s like a hill you usually see in those graphs. But before the punchline hits the climax, the joke line goes for a dip, if that makes sense. That’s how you make an joke work. However, with Shane Dawson’s case, he just completely left out the punchline part or even the set up for the joke and did someone offensive and tried to tell people it was a joke.
I think one of the most definining things about Shane's vs Bo's humor is that Bo's lines aren't directed towards kids, and his main focus is clever word play. But Shane's whole joke is the outlandish statement itself.
I think with Bo it's mostly like, "I'm saying terrible things! Oh _YOU_ laughed at that? You're a terrible person, HAHAH!" But with Shane it's like, "I'm saying terrible things, but I think it's funny, you're supposed to laugh at this."
I think that's the best way to put it. Bo uses offensive humor to bait people into laughing at it, so he can challenge his audience to ask *why* it's funny. Shane uses offensive humor because he just finds it funny.
i'm so happy you talked about monica lewinsky, she is PHENOMENAL and people still make jokes about her and dont realize that what she went through was ABUSE!!! thank you so much for bringing that up it's so topical and so rarely talked about
she was a 22 year old intern. which is adult, but like straight out of college. like at that point you have barely any real life experience with relationships. her brain wasn’t even fully developed, and he was THE FUCKING PRESIDENT. and SHE got the public ridicule! disgusting.
I feel like Clinton is on the receiving end of just as many of those jokes. I’m not extremely informed on the situation tho, so can someone tell me what about their relationship made it abuse? Besides the fact the he was in a position of power, because that’s not enough. Her age doesn’t matter either, because 22. Was there some heavy manipulation going on or what?
“Do you wanna come into my weird little house, I bet you feel bad for coming into my weird little house.” That’s an excellent description of watching a Bo Burnum stand up
I had first heard Monica Lewinsky speak in a TedTalk about her experiences being basically the first nationwide cyberbullied person. And it's unimaginable..
i remember when that scandal was happening. it was like she wasn't even human. no matter which side of the topic you fell on, she was universally the loser. persona non grata. i cannot imagine what it must have been like for her.
Yeah if anyone is reading this and hasn't seen her TED talk about that, I would highly recommend it. Its probably the only TED talk I would ever recommend. Completely changed my perspective and what i thought i knew about her, the scandal and her life afterwards (tbf i went into it knowing barely anything cause im Australian). I went away from it with a huge amount of respect for Ms Lewinski and how she's managed to do so much in the face of such adversity and bullying.
First time here: Seeing Jarvis get to fired up about this honestly makes me so happy, twitter will have you believe that the majority of people are excusing shane but that's not the case, they are the loud and wrong minority. I really found Jordan's approach on this podcast with dry humor and blunt jokes so funny 🤣 "comedy requires an audience and if the audience isnt engaged it's not the audiences fault" YES! You guys are doing great.
One of the biggest differences with Shane and Bo, imo, is the feeling of sincerity within the "jokes". Shane is doing things he genuinely believed were funny/OK, whereas Bo was making jokes ABOUT things he KNOWS aren't ok, and is making the subject into the butt of the joke, not the (for lack of a better word) hero.
even if Bo had set out to have a fanbase of a lot of teenagers it's not nearly as bad considering he was a teenager himself when he started. he also sets healthy boundaries w/ his younger fanbase unlike shane.
when i first heard that shane and onision were friends in the past, i thought “how was someone who was as “good” as shane friends with someone as bad as onision” because i hadn’t really heard about shane’s past. when i heard about shane’s past, i was like “OH that makes sense now” shane’s behavior is completely unacceptable and i feel bad for ever supporting him
Shane Madej has shown multiple times that he -respects women -respects all sexualities -respects all body types -respects his fans and their age -is ACAB
The Monica Lewinsky part was SUCH a great point. If you have seen her Last Week Tonight interview, you know. I think that interview changed me as a person, even though I already supported her when it wasn’t popular. When fans talk about predatory behavior from their favorite celebs, it often reminds me of that dynamic, except at least Lewinsky was LEGALLY old enough to consent (even though the extreme age and power dynamic contrast still ruined her life).
Yeah, that was a good interview. I was a kid when Clinton was president, and all I knew were the jokes and how normalized it got. To the point I never really thought about it from her side. That interview uh.. "woke me up" about it. I can't remember the wording I was going to use when I started typing this out, but yeah. The interview helped
The point of “edgy” comedy is the ass of the joke is the person doing the fucked up action, NOT the marginalized person being the ass of the joke by the person doing a fucked up action towards them.
That’s exactly what “at the time” means. People didn’t feel like it was bad because the standards for behaviour were lower and the internet was, even more so, the home of morally deplorable behaviour. It’s not an excuse, but he probably was also influenced by other content that was frequent at the time as that was normalised behaviour, people didn’t see anything wrong with it. Idk how but that’s the truth.
That’s not true though- people did call Shane out. One example is a black woman who had criticized Shave multiple times for his disgusting behaviour, and Shane sent his audience after her to mock her and be racist. Essentially, people have been calling Shane out ever since he started.
shut up People did call Shane out though. His fanbase would usually attack them and mock them. There were plenty of videos that were critical of Shane, people who called out his racism and pedophilia, etc. His behaviour was never okay.
tammi yes but it is a different time cause no one cared. People are more educated nowadays and they treat the internet and their own public image with more care.
Jordan is so damn on point. Offensive or dark humour is fine but it needs to have thought put behind it. Great comedians know that being subtle and to a point make people think about what they are laughing at. Just saying "haha dead babies" or whatever edgy Lord """jokes""" Making a "shock and awe" statement then laughing at it while decrying people who thinks it's unfunny is just sad
True. A lot of dark humour that I actually find funny are usually ones where you think about it afterwards. And others aren't as sophisticated but they don't truly praise whatever terrible thing it's talking about. You can always tell their is criticism in deplorable behavior.
@@georgaseebalack6003 i think it came across in my first comment but I enjoy dark and potentially offensive humor not this edgy shock and awe style "comedy" that many people with no personality think is "funny" Jarvis and Jordan gave some good examples but my favorite example is Frankie Boyle, he did a joke where he said "isnt it odd how pedophiles all dress alike? Glasses, balding, plaid shirt, denim coat. I guess that's just what children find so irresistible about them" boom!
dark humor is best when you're making fun of your own experience not just saying anything for shock value it isn't okay to mock marginalized groups of people period
Georga Seebalack dark humor is about the intent as well. A lot of dark humor is satire and supposed to still make a statement. The people hearing the joke shouldn’t get offended, they should be laughing too because they know the comedian is making light of a sad situation
that Millie puppet series shit is really insane to me because the background story for her was that she was a child who actually experienced sexual abuse. Their act of grooming her becomes much more sickening in that aspect.
Is he racist or a pedophile? It's arguable. Is his content racist Or pedophilic? Most definitely. In this case, it really doesn't matter whether he himself believes in what he says, he has made so many so uncomfortable and has influenced children's way of thinking. I generally try to give the benefit of the doubt for most controversies, but in this situation, I really can't. It's really bad.
That episode of South Park where Kyle's little brother was in a relationship with his teacher is my example of the joke is not about sexual abuse and grooming. The joke is the about the absurdity of what how everyone is dealing with the situation. The fact that male authorities didn't step in because she is an attractive woman even though Ike is a fucking 5 year old! And that this woman is speaking to Ike as if he a fully grown man that can comprehend anything that is happening. And having Kyle bringing things back to reality of this is a child and it doesn't matter that she is attractive or the Ike is going along with it. Shane Dawson's stuff is just "I act like a weird pedo" with 0 nuance. There is no reactive response that builds on it. So that means the joke is the sexual harassment and abuse. Now you don't have to find that episode of South Park funny and you may very well find it offensive as well. But the main point is the joke is about the chaos of the situation that adds a layers of depth to it and creats a social commentary. But just making a joke of you sexualizing kids with no other context is just you sexualizing kids. What part of that are we even supposed to being to see the joke in it?
Thank you. This. It's the underlying criticism and knowledge that it's wrong that makes a joke funny. When the terrible thing itself is what's supposed to be funny it never will be.
thank you!! I love south park and personally I found I was really uncomfortable watching that episode but I understood what they were trying to say. it's fucked up that we let this sort of shit slide because the abuser is attractive or the victim should've known better etc etc... a lot of people attack south park and especially that episode but need to understand what the episodes are actually saying. they're not agreeing with racism, p*dophilia, bigots etc., they're poking fun at them and making them look stupid so people understand why it's wrong
@@user-nx3kt9rw5d escape this website while you still can. Please. Please go take meth or get in fights, it's less addictive and dangerous than this place
If someone claims to be an empath openly and loudly it’s usually just themselves announcing that they think they’re a good person and usually they are not anything close
The problem with Shane is that so many of his fans were young and didn’t know that what he was doing was wrong. He normalized those kinds of ‘jokes’ to us and we thought nothing of it because “he’s popular, he wouldn’t do anything wrong”.
"Do you think the Vlogbrothers were up to this shit?" YES! I love how you mentioned them and Michael Buckley- they were Shane's *peers.* The excuse that "it was a different time" totally dismisses the fact that there were big accounts that *weren't doing that shit.* Were those three men perfect? No, they're human. But they are so consistently checking themselves and holding themselves accountable for shit that doesn't come even *close* to Shane's bullshit.
The big difference between Shane’s blackface and the blackface in something like It’s Always Sunny or Tropic Thunder is the punchline. Dee and Kirk Lazarus are the ones portrayed as being insensitive and stupid, and that’s the point. The joke is that it’s bad to do blackface, and these people are so stupid that they did it anyway. But Shane’s blackface characters don’t poke fun at the concept of blackface. He’s not making himself or blackface as a practice the butt of the joke. Instead, his blackface jokes are literally a modern-day minstrel show. The black caricature is the butt of the joke.
I was a young fan of Shane Dawson’s and it’s heart breaking because I genuinely wish I wasn’t. I was entertained by is videos and work because the older boys in my neighborhood acted similar. His content made me feel like it was okay for older men to fetish me when I was only 10-12 because they are joking/ or cool. And I came to this realization when his Jeffery Star/ conspiracy fame started taking off. Some of my college classes were talking about him, said his name and it triggered my ptsd to my sexual abuse/attacks immediately. I threw up in the bathroom and started hearing a bunch of men’s voices and and feelings ghost hands all over me. He groomed kids on the Internet I am convinced What is even worse was when I was 11 or so years old i spent the night at a friends and her niece (5 years old) loved to hang out with us. (To her we were the cool kids) . My friend brought up the same language Shane Dawson used in that peep video with Lisa. My friend started to sexually groom/assault her niece. I was uncomfortable and left the room. I didn’t get what was wrong/ why I felt this way because she was “teaching” her niece what Shane and Lisa was “teaching “ that girl and my friend was just physically showing her cause her niece didn’t get it. I walked home and told my mom the next morning. I then wasn’t allowed to see that friend anymore. Shane Dawson may or may not be a pedo. But he is a twisted man whose humor groomed children for all the pedos out there. Who miss guided children to think they were teaching other children. He needs to be held accountable and tbh he needs to quit. I hate that man. I had his existence blocked out from 14- 24. And I wish it had stayed that way.
We were groomed. I hate it too. It's a bitter pill to swallow. That fact that he was so openly sexual made it feel a little rebellious to watch it. I would hide it from my parents and I didn't know how bad it actually was for me until I grew up. I think my disillusionment came around the time we're they started the Millie channel. I felt so uncomfortable watching it.... I wish I could save my younger self from getting exposed to very harmful ideas about sex... But at least he is gone now.
I was sexually assaulted as a kid and never understood why and videos like what he made normalizes that for kids who might watch that and think it’s normal and okay for that to happen to them. It’s like teaching them that they’re there for the satisfaction of adults. Especially someone who you see as being famous and important. A lot of times kids will emulate the people they look up to and the cycle continues. I really don’t know what I’m talking about completely this is just my thoughts.
Don’t worry, I’m on the same boat as you. It made me genuinely upset that Shane (who I thought was just some good person at the time) did and said these horrible and disgusting things. The worst part was when I thought the things he said and insinuated at the time were true. That me as a Hispanic person should feel ok with his racist jokes, me as someone who was SA’d by my own bio father, should feel ok with all the pedo jokes and that it’s ok that they mock and normalize what happened to me. “As long as everyone else was happy and laughing along even at the expense of my well-being and life, it’s all good why ruin it for others?” Has haunted me for a long time and it will continue to affect me for the rest of my life. Like I didn’t know I had a molt that eventually outgrew and went away by good people surrounding me and telling me how you’re not alone and it’s ok to talk about it. I’m glad that Shane is getting what he deserves and I hope that more victims (let’s be real, ALL of his fans including current ones are victims) leaves him and speaks out against him and his terrible behavior.
Shane morphs into whatever he thinks people would accept. He went from "edgy" to "empath" to "makeup bad ass" because of Jafar Starbucks. If you watch his "documentaries" you'd see how he starts with an idea and then when he meets the person he just morphs into "ohh i understand you, everything is ok". It's so sad.
I know this is a year late I apologize lol, but remember that documentary with Molly Burke? That rubbed me so wrong, it seemed like he was exploiting a blind girl for views and granted she got a big following after, I still didn't like it. It seemed super ingenuine, as most of them seemed. (*cough cough* Eugenia Cooney. Probably the worst video he made during that time) even I fell for his "empathy" at first because I was like 13, but it soon became clear that he was never genuine. It's so awful to see.
So I work in the child trauma field and the D'Angelo Wallace video was so upsetting to watch. The "that's just how my family is" just didn't sit right with me. One of the first things I was taught starting my job was about setting appropriate boundaries with the kids we serve since a majority have a sexual abuse history and don't always know what are appropriate boundaries with adults. And idk a family that enforces a messed up standard for what's appropriate behavior with a child worries me greatly
right? it almost made it worse, because it revealed that that kind of behavior was regularly occurring in his family lol. it didn't say "it's subculturally normal that shane did the thing," it said "not only did shane do the thing, but so did his aunt"??
What I love about Jarvis vs D'Angelo (who I also religiously watch), is that Jarvis tries to understand what the person was trying to do, comedically, and explains either why it is bad, how it went wrong, or how to do it better/not be so offensive when trying to be comedic. I think it's probably because D'Angelo is more of a commentator while Jarvis is openly a comedian/commentator.
I was a very big fan of him when I was around 11/12/13 and genuinely feel like his content partially led to me being hyper sexual at a young age as well as normalizing abuse in my late teens early 20s as a result. His content had real world consequences.
That is exactly why I am so angry at him, I mean he just does not want to realize how much big impact his words and actions have. He does not even acknowledhed, that he did this. UGH You are so hundrend procent right.
Seeing the effects of one messed up creator on SO many young individuals is awful. I'm grateful i was a bit too young to end up in his target audience. I only heard about him thru d'angello wallace's video. Thankfully by then I was old enough to see how disturbing it all was.
That's what I feel a lot of content then was like. I was hyper sexual at a young age and it was very easy to find things that encouraged that. I was a fan of Shane, Onision, Jeffree Star, and Blood on the Dance Floor, and it was encouraging, it felt good to see people being like yeah you're like 12 and hyper sexual but that's normal and cool. I only escaped possible abuse by creators and stuff at the time, not because I knew to stay away from them, but because I naively thought that they would never actually reciprocated things like that. I had a major crush on singers and creators and if I'd thought they actually were into people my age at the time, I would have gone after it. I would have found their interest in me to be flattering, I'd have felt special. It's horrible to imagine myself back then, reading fanfics and thinking about how I wished they would be into me, but that they weren't into people so young, but knowing now that they WERE. I watch interviews and stuff with victims of those people and I think about how if I hadn't thought more of those people, I could have become another victim. Idk if any of this made sense, it's all just freaky and scares me.
I was in elementary when I started watching him……I’m not really sure what year but whatever age u are in 3rd or 4th grade, it was 2000 n whatever that age is
I don't understand why the Fine Brothers don't get more shit for working with Shane so closely. Millie was a collaboration of the 3, right? The Fine Brothers should be called out for this shit just as much.
It’s concerning when you consider that they regularly work with children. A lot of people have come out and said that the fbe channel is a really toxic environment which is concerning. And from what I remember weren’t there original kids reacts videos in their apartment or something? I’m not saying they have done anything to those children but it seems strange that they could work so closely with children and also feel comfortable making such horrific jokes about children
@@caitlinwheeler7915 same like i had no idea the fine bros did something like that and the idea that they worked so closely with children is insane to me because how can you make jokes like that and then turn around and decide to work with actual children?
I like the term “it explains it but I doesn’t excuse it.” because that’s how I feel when people say it was “a different time”. It being a different time might explain why he did those things but it doesn’t excuse it. don’t call it an excuse.
Though I'm not a big Bo burnham fan, there's tons of differences between his comedy and Shane's they might both say not great stuff, but Bo uses facial expressions and inflection to tell you it's wrong or inappropriate, Shane sits there with a straight face or serious voice like its just a statement. You can tell that Bo is being staterical and making jokes way easier than you can with Shane.
The thing abt Bo's jokes is that he delivers it in a way that you know immediately that it's definitely a joke whereas Shane just says shocking things in a serious tone and you have to double take and wonder if he meant it This is excluding the fact that Shane crossed the line by following up his words with actions
Also with Bos joke the actual punchline wasn’t always being black or on a race or rape. Those themes may have been incorporated into the joke but they weren’t the butt of it. Which is why it was actually funny unlike Shane
@@wacksonjittemore4013 What are you talking about? Have you listened to any Bo Burnham song? You seem to have missed the entire point. Bo's jokes are obviously mocking people who think rape or racism are okay while Shane's aren't. Also Bo's jokes aren't just like "look at this shocking racist thing", there is a setup and a punchline there. So those kind of jokes are fine to make when 1. you aren't a racist/rapist/pedo/etc yourself and 2. it's clear within the joke that you condemn such actions. Maybe that wasn't clear from this podcast, but obviously there is a good reason why it's okay when Bo makes such jokes and it isn't when Shane does it.
The biggest difference with Bo Burnham and Shane Dawson in their shock-value humor, is that Bo Burnham punches up. The butt of his jokes are either the character he plays, the bad person in the scenario, or some outlandish other character. Never the victim. His jokes are classic dark humor jokes, they don't make it out to be funny to do bad things, they inherently make fun of those bad things to make them easier to talk about, which is the point of dark humor. It's a form of humor where you can discuss and normalize the topics of taboo subjects. It's often more helpful than harmful. Shane Dawson's humor doesn't have a steady line of reason, there's no punchline, it's just "look at me doing bad thing, haha, it's funny cause it's a bad thing" when that's not funny. Bo Burnham is about absurdism and dark humor, Shane Dawson doesn't even have humor. He's punching down to people, the victims, minorities, minors, etc. This same shit is why I despise people calling outright hatred or bigotry "dark humor". Being an asshole, doing disgusting things, they aren't funny. Dark humor is one of the most difficult forms of comedy because it ties a very fine line between being too tame or not funny enough to be dark humor, and being too cheesy and uncomfortable, or too dark to be balanced out well with the joke. Bo Burnham is great because he walks that line very well. Shane is missing the mark by a mile and then getting upset when he's called out for it. Dark humor is a dangerous comedy to play into because things can be taken wrong and can just sound bad, it's a thing you run by people a lot when making an act, and it's something you immediately step up to apologize and take responsibility for, even if you don't think you should have to. There's no misdirections, puns, punchlines, none of that in Shane Dawson's comedy, if you can even call it that. It's just "Look! Blackface!" Whereas, one of Bo's jokes that I remember well, about him playing a slave in a movie and reinacting it, called Whiplash, he puts the right inflection and attitude to make it clear he's being snotty, he's playing his character. He plays a parody, and shows it in his behavior. A slight head wobble, a snort out the nose, a purposefully sassy smirk and glancing at the crowd in the right way, the cadence and timing of each word, it all plays into really playing up that character, overdone just enough that it's obviously a joke, obviously a parody, but not so overdone it takes away from the good ol' funnies. Instead of being so stubborn about his humor, Shane needs to seriously look into how jokes are constructed. While, with many art forms, there can be more interesting takes outside the box, humor is something that you have to be careful with, especially dark humor. When you make dark jokes that punch down, when you just say bigotry or hate with a quick "It's just a joke, bro", you normalize hatred. That's just how it is. Parodying hate, it's not something that's easy to do, and a lot of people think they can just be an asshole and say it's a character, when that's just not how it works. If the satire is not clearly satire, I will assume it's genuine hate, because genuine hate is far more prevalent than any genuine satire. I can hope and try to assume it's not intentional, but the fact is that there's too many people claiming satire to hide behind when they spout disgusting bullshit for people to be willing to take it as satire. Shane needs to either realize that his humor isn't fitting the necessary requirements for dark humor, and either get better at that shit, or get the fuck out of that genre. No in between. A great video that covers a lot of this kind of stuff is Matpat's video on Pewdiepie's anti-Semitic joke, why it failed, and how we can learn about comedy and how we can recognize when a joke is no longer a joke but rather outright bigotry or hate. A lot of it falls into punching up rather than down. Punching up is making the, say for example, making a joke about rape, but making the butt of the joke the rapist. These are funny and even spoken out about as ways to make good rape jokes, an example Matpat gave was one of the absurdism of rape itself. Of the concept and how ridiculous it is to want to do that or to do that in the first place. It never makes the victim feel at fault or puts them anywhere near the butt of the joke. I myself am a minority, transgender, and gay, and there are jokes about such topics that can make me laugh, it's just you need to be aware of who you're targeting as the butt of the joke, and the context of societal tenseness around an issue. For example, trans jokes aren't often funny unless made by trans people. Making jokes in good fun is very common actually, we joke about transphobes trying to make shitty jokes and make them better, we joke about pronouns and about common names we choose, etc. It's funny relatable humor. But in most contexts, trans jokes are a little tense, a little uncomfortable, because it's an issue of us and our rights being threatened atm. It's hard to find humor in that, and I haven't seen many people make genuinely funny dark jokes about it, most of the time it's just outright hate. Context of the world matters as well, is my point. Thank you for reading. Sincerely, a dark humor loving trans boi
@@oliviabreen6896 10/10 compliment, totally made my day like a few times over cause I forgot about it and saw it again rewatching this video, haha! Also, adding to what I said before, I've found some actually good jokes relating to trans folks by cis people where it doesn't punch down, albeit they do tend to be more rare. And elaborating on why trans people and people of minorities can joke about people within their own group more easily, it's because you're not making fun of other people who are below you in social heirarchy/oppression. Usually it's not only making fun of others, usually the audience themselves, but also the person making the joke is actively making fun of themselves as well. Bo Burnham remains a fantastic example of shock humor, imo, though. He's never punching down, he's making genuine satire and mockery OF bigots and people who do shit on minorities. He's making a mockery of sexism in a way that's subtle, not because we don't recognize it, no, it's easy to tell it's a mockery, but the actual things done to display to our brains that it is a mockery, a satire, a character to all openly joke and laugh at, they're all super subtle. I respect him completely for shifting genres a teeny bit, although I'd argue he's still in dark humor, just not shock humor as much, it leans a little more existential and feels a little more mature, which is neither good nor bad. Just different. That being said, he'll probably always be a fantastic example of well done dark humor, regardless of if it's shock, or existential, or whatever it ends up being. (I'm biased a bit cause I grew up on his humor a bit, (early to mid teens) but I think with how well loved his work is, the bias isn't necessarily clouding my vision entirely.)
Unrelated but on the topic of trans jokes: one of my favorite jokes was one by a cis guy who stutters and he said he identifies as a laugh because (and I quote) “he-he-he-he-he/him” And god I just can’t help myself to a really bad good joke
@@OliverStarfall I love those sorts of jokes when they aren't malicious. Michael Jackson's accounts having the pronouns "he/he"? Fucking hilarious. I also love incorporating speech issues into a joke in a benign way. I've never heard that joke, but honestly, it sounds very funny. Good trans jokes aren't too hard, people just can't often visualize them without putting trans people as the butt of the joke, sadly. ^^;;
He is definitely a predator. I saw a long Twitter thread of him doing horrible shit to minors. He asked young fans to twerk for him, tried to get a kid to eat Dick cookies, tried to "teach" that same kid sex stuff, said CP shouldn't be illegal or something along those lines, etc. He is horrible and disgusting. The list of shit he has done against minors I think should qualify him as being a predator.
I love how Jarvis and Jordan are two versions of the same person. And the fact that they are both wearing grey t-shirts, glasses and black headphones + J- names further proves my theory. Great video, D’Angelo’s video was really good too and it’s awesome to get multiple point of views
That scene from Always Sunny can also be interpreted to be a commentary on how white people tend to talk over POC when talking about race-related issues What Shane did is just blackface
I think my issue with dangelos interpretation saying "it's not funny either it's cringe" it's like we are meantto be laughing at dee because of how cringe it is not what either of these people described
I love your analysis of this issue, but my one criticism is your continued giving Shane the benefit of the doubt. I have an incredibly hard time believing he's not racist or he's trying or whatever like it's clear at this point that he doesn't care at all
His "comedy"is low effort that's the first thought in his head type jokes. Real comedy is thought out and has a point. I have no doubt he has racist tendencies because his comedy feels like it's the first thing it comes to him
Exactly. In d'angelo Wallace's video theres a clip of shane saying (about his black friend at the time) "I have to help Shauna with her youtube channel because she's black she doesnt know how to work a computer..." Like what???????? Theres no joke there, thats just a racist statement. I cant say he isn't racist anymore.
“It was a different time” is usually reserved for like, monumental changes in history. “Why did the Bible endorse slavery” well it was a different time before slavery was even thought of as something that could be abolished on a wide scale. “Why did people think it was okay to smoke around kids?” Well it was a different time, studies weren’t out yet and if they were they didn’t get enough attention to be seen as something important. “It was a different time” does not refer to things that happened online ten years ago. The internet was in a different place, but it was in no way societally okay for any of those “jokes” to fly.
The comparison to Monica Lewinski was AMAZING and I can’t believe I hadn’t thought of it before. This is my first video I’ve seen of yours and I’m already hooked. You guys are so articulate and well spoken and respectful and deserve a billion more views. Keep up the amazing work!
Bo Burnham is really good at punching up. His jokes aren't "Hahaha rape, racism, homophobia!!". Its making fun of the rapist, the racists and the homophobes. In the examples you showed even at 16 he's was (in my opinion) showing that he found those things bad. Like things he was at the time saying were wrong. They weren't amazingly funny or really that good. But he wasn't being joking at the expense of the people facing it but the people doing it. And he's gotten so much better at it so he's clearly learning. And understands how to do it well.
The difference between Bo Burnham's lowkey offensive jokes and Shane's is that Bo's are actually jokes that are f u n n y. All Shane was doing is saying offensive inappropriate disgusting shit, and using the joke thing as an excuse. Bo uses them to enhance his message, and humor.
@@cisrot Yay! Saw this a year later and seeing your update brings me Joy. I am mixed up with who I really am. I'm bio female but doing my makeup after cutting my hair super short made me dissociate and I felt like a guy before the makeup came on.
“Being shocking is a shortcut to being funny” Was such a good quote. For example, Shane Dawson, Amy Schumer, some of the newer Adam Sandler movies where they’re just cringey and not funny. It’s a really good point I never realized until now.
My little sister is almost 12 and if I found out she went to a meet and greet and the 21 yr old man KISSED HER ON THE LIPS I would spend my life hunting him the fuck down. How in the WORLD do people see that as okay. So incredibly traumatizing for those kids who later realize the extent of how nasty it was.
I hate that people say that “it was a different time” to try to excuse him. Even if no one at the time had said there was a problem with what he did, the fact he did it is not okay the bad part isn’t when he did it, it’s when he did it and never admitted he did something wrong or saying it was bad but excusing himself for what he did or not admitting to all of it etc.
EXACTLY. Like this is a more extreme example but. Slavery was very common in the 1800s. It was indeed a different time does that make it ok tho? Absolutely not. IT WAS STILL DISGUSTING. Just because racist jokes may have been more popular back then does make them ok
But like...even if you believe in the whole "it was a different time argument" (which people shouldn't) it would be a different time because of SHANE If it was a "different time" the people who make the status quo or the norm are the people who have power and an audience. Which was HIM AT THE TIME HE NORMALIZED THIS SHIT
Some people are really shocked by the idea that, if a minor has a crush on an adult, it's the adult's responsibility to enforce appropriate boundaries.
THISSSSS OMG
exactly this! i dont get why its such a hard concept for people to understand. teens have crushes on adults and celebs and youtubers all the time, but that doesnt make it okay if the adult reciprocates
Totally makes sense having a crush on an adult as a kid / teen maybe an actor or singer or smt, but that means the adult has more responsibilities right now because children are qualified as under 18 which means they can’t give proper consent (at least in America). If the adult screws up it can lead to disastrous effects. Very similar to how police are held to a higher standard than normal people because they hold power, hence why dirty cops sends shockwaves through the system while a normal person commiting the same exact crime is barely a blip on the radar. I fail to see how people are surprised by this.
MINORS CANNOT CONCENT.
^^^^^^^^!!!!!! it’s fine to inform minors that they shouldn’t hit on adults (they shouldn’t!) but at the end of the day if the adult acts on it, it’s still that adult’s fault!!!
Shane is like the guy that says something offensive and waits to see people's reactions to decide if he was joking or not
100%
That is sooo spot on!
Oh my god the accuracy
schrodingers douchbag basically
Well that sums up my ex too. 😶
I was the 12 year old girl that Shane kissed, and I want to agree with you and emphasize the point that you made, “it’s not about whether or not shane intended to do this.” You are 1000% right - it doesn’t matter whether he intended to create this image and reputation where he sexualized children, the fact is that he did. He did it whether he knew the implications of it or not, and it affected real people.
Wow, it is crazy to hear you speak out! You are strong for coming forward, especially on the internet where people can be awful. I watched shane a lot when I was 12 and I, like you, had the content normalized. Are you okay now? I hope you are well.
i’m sorry i hope u are well
Fully this, I was groomed and it's so hard because they use that idea that they "didn't mean to" against you so much, particularly with my abuser (I'm not sure if Shane was the same) he used this idea that he was just being totally innocent and people were just assuming the worst about him because he's a bigger man and everyone's so judgemental about men being affectionate and friendly towards children like. He full on groped my friends boobs. He put his hand on my thigh and left it there for several minutes once and did not ask first. Did I mention he was a fucking teacher at my school. He crossed so many boundaries and then told me that people were judging him unfairly to gaslight me about my discomfort and make me feel irrational and mean for being afraid of him, I don't care if genuinely didn't mean to make me feel those things, I don't care if he genuinely thought his behaviour was appropriate, he still made me uncomfortable and gave me trauma, he still crossed boundaries, if he really cared that much he should have just stopped, it's so easy, but he didn't. A person doesn't have to be trying to hurt you to be in the wrong for hurting you. Shane had no right to kiss you no matter why he decided to do it. Even if he's telling the truth 100% as he experienced it he's still in the wrong.
@@butasimpleidiotwizard i just wanna say that i’m so sorry and a grown man should know that grooming is not okay anyway
Honestly couldn’t care less if he “intended” to or not. How little empathy and foresight does he have to not think about his actions a bit? It reeks of entitled privilege that he’s never had to contemplate his actions and can use others as pawns for some joke
i don't think we should dismiss the idea of shane being a genuine racist in his past. black women would call him out for his behavior and he called them *apes* in response.. he even said after educating himself on the blackface of the '20s, he still did it because he did not care at all :/
also a lot of his comments outside of sketches were degrading towards black women, insulting their hair and tying that to them being black, and when talking about his friend he said something along the lines of "she doesn't know what she's doing, she can't make a video- i mean, she's *black*" or something like that
EXACTLY
THIS!
@@pepsi2471 That's disgusting
Hold up- when did he call them “Apes”??? That’s a new one :)
i feel like the excuse of “fangirls were just wild!” is placing the blame on young girls who were groomed by the internet.
facts
Most certainly.
THANK YOU
Smells like Onion spirit..
@@LKorosec don't shame nirvana like that-
I'm half asleep and I thought Jarvis was talking to Freddie Mercury.
That’s so funny-
oml that's amazing
Bro I was just thinking this lmao
That’s what I was thinking😂
Honestly that’s a high compliment
“It was a different time”
Bro it was like 10 years ago not the 1800s
EXACTLYYYYY
EXACTLY!! people act like just because it was 10 years ago its okay.. racism and pedophilia has always been bad, people just didnt pay as much attention to it as we are now
agreed (also i like your username hehe)
Yeah my theory is a lot of people going around parroting that were like 3 back then so it really does seem like a whole different era to them. But then it's like how are you gonna tell me what was normal back then when you weren't even there. I couldn't necessarily articulate why at thirteen or so, but I remember being super uncomfortable with some of his blackface content that I came across. It was clear to me even then that his "jokes" were at the expense of black people, laughing at them not with them. He went out of his way to exaggerate and perpetuate stereotypes and for lack of a better word kinda grotesque-ify them? Like that clip that d'angelo compared to minstrel shows is so clearly supposed to strike you as like. scary and ugly. Whether it was his "intention" or not he encouraged people to look down on black people with disdain and believe negative stereotypes about them.
And even the shit in the 1800s wasn’t ok, it’s all around just a piss-poor argument
When Shane said, “that’s how our family is” as an excuse, that truly sickened me. Like Jarvis said, the normalization of abuse is horrific, and Shane still tries to justify it.
exactly. because in those “family” situations, his young female relatives probably felt pressured to just go along with the “joke”, because if they expressed discomfort, their family might treat them like they were the problem, instead of their grown ass male relative sexualizing them. in families where this kind of stuff is normalized, abuse often goes unreported. It’s really messed up that he used his own family like that, and it’s even more messed up that it’s taken THIS damn long for people to call him out for it.
That comment actually explains a lot. Yes, Shane is normalizing sick behaviour - and it's most likely because his family normalized it to him.
Shane didn’t say that lol the girls family said that
Well, then consider: where did his values come from? Perhaps his own family? It doesn't excuse him, but perhaps we should try to figure out not just WHAT he did, but WHY.
@@maddygreenb that's almost worse. A victim making excuses for the abuser. Idk much about abuse but to me that's so much worse for the victim not understanding what they are going through. Abuse needs to be talked about more. Someone I know was sexually abused and didn't know till they talked about it in school. And if we don't bring it up more than they may realise that they shouldn't try to excuse abuse. That's just what I think tho haha
to any sexual assault survivors (or anyone in general) who needs to hear this:
what happened to you was *not your fault,* i promise you. you werent “leading them on,” you arent “too sensitive” for letting it affect you, and no matter what happened, no matter how “small” or “insignificant” some people (even yourself) may think the event was, you have the right to be distraught. you have the right to be traumatized, even. you have the right to call yourself a survivor. dont let anyone tell you otherwise.
Thank you for saying that.
Thank you so so so much, please have a great day and please stay safe!
This made me tear up a little. Thank you. ❤
I needed this. Thank you 🥺💖
thank you so much for this.
Growing up in a town that was 99% white, nearly every kid thought Shane in black face was funny. His comments on raping young girls was also funny to everyone. I can’t express how detrimental these “jokes” were for people’s perceptions of the world and even their understanding of what humor can be.
i can laugh about that from a different perspective, but i also see the problems coming with it. Therefor I don´t laugh because of the jokes, but because it´s unreal how dumb that shit is. I think younger folks are missing that insight, and thats the problem. You know, even a smart kid, still is a kid.
@@DerAykac ...
If it makes you feel better, I am 14. I think what he did was absolutely disgusting. And I never found it funny.
I was in middle school when Shane first started making content on TH-cam. Someone from school found his content and made him popular in our local teen community. I always found his humour gimmicky, offensive and just ... low fruit-hanging, even before political correctness was a known thing to us.
I honestly cannot understand why people perpetuate and support shocking humour that's based on the humiliation and pain of others. I'm glad my parents taught me not to place my joy on others' suffering; I thought it was a granted and given thing. But I guess not since it doesn't seem like all parents teach their kids such things.
Cerise #23 thats the problem. a lot of parents arent attentive to what their kids are watching on the internet. im not saying we need more helicopter parents, but if your kid is watching something they shouldnt be watching, instead of banning them from watching it, explain to them why its wrong. when no one is there to explain why things are wrong, kids are essentially groomed by the internet.
“Being shocking is a shortcut to being funny” PERFECTLY explains Shane’s type of offensive “humor”
yeah like most of the time, people usually give an awkward "i don't know what to do here" laugh with shock humor
it isn't even comedy at that point
woah. burnie sandors!
@@oddball1493 Agreed, it's like a horror movie that just has loud sounds in it. Making me jump doesn't make me afraid, just stressed
Yeah, there’s having a dark sense of humor and then there’s throwing shit at the wall to see what upsets people. There’s a line between when its funny and when it just turns into tastelessness
I have a pretty edgy sense of humour myself but I'm no Shane about it. I don't use racism or homophobia as the punchline. I like to use real life situations to set the scene (some of which contain that stuff) and then make the joke afterwards. The joke should never be 'black people, am I right?" because that's just awful comedy and doesn't make people feel good.
I️ 100% believe that Shane and Onision were a HUGE part of the reason so many people in my generation were sexually exploited over the Internet. They made it seem normal, and funny, and cool as people that so many children looked up to. That, combined with the Internet boom and the unprecedented access that abusers had to children online is absolutely the reason so many people around my age were sexually abused via the Internet. They should never be forgiven, given second chances, and I️ don’t want to hear their apologies. You don’t make these jokes and videos without some truth to them, otherwise it would be too hard for the creator to stomach.
makes me shiver to think about all the abuse that happened because of the culture they promoted. i think the number of young minds that were corrupted by these harmful teachings and ended up getting abused later because it's normalized, is uncountable.
If these two men had a custom font, one is the eyebrow lite version and the other is the eyebrow bold version.
Ukopuk
Omg that's awesome
I hate that you aren’t wrong. Take my like and leave this establishment. Come again!
I hyperventilated reading this lmao
Ikr
I was an African American fan of Shane Dawson and I think I can safety say that he fed into my internalized racism at age like 12. Watching his content did make me feel like “ooh im watching this raunchy content -!and getting away with it” and it’s not until now i’m like really uncomfortable
🤗
You know, now that I'm getting older and more educated, I realize a lot of the messed up stuff I used to be ok with or laugh at. A lot of comedians I used to like I hate now because of the sexism, and racism. And I mean there are good jokes for those topics but you know, many aren't. I wish I could've realized this sooner but age and maturity at least hit me when I was 18
And man, when I learned the term internalized racism, I initially dismissed it. Thought this is just another thing ppl were whining about but wasn't real. But I see it more and more in my actions and thoughts and the ppl around me. So imbedded that we can't see it quick enough and the older generation will never learn. Thanks for reminding me that I'm making progress in seeing this stuff
@@SadBoyzClips Is that you Jeremy Renner?
@martin sure, we'll all find multiple repeat offenses in which people have told them its offensive already, in everyone's past.
It's kind of like Michael in the office. He made racist remarks and such, but he was the butt of the joke because he was being mean and was so clearly out of touch. They didn't make fun of poc, they made fun of Michael for making fun of poc.
exactly. i'm in no way supporting those jokes, but at least the writers stopped, they read the room. they didn't make any racist jokes past season 3 ( i wanna say at least, could've been 4)(also, there coulda been a joke ive forgotten) .
Wdym u don’t support the “racist jokes” I thought they were fine
@@vibes5768 That means he doesn't support it. If you like it that's fine but what other people dislike have nothing to do with what you like.
@@lianair4383 wasn’t the “you’re black stanley” joke in like season 5
@@Nothingtoseehere-eo7zq yeah he made the “barrack is president” “joke” during the fire drill episode. They might have toned it down a bit but it was still problematic lol
I think the whole "it was a different time" argument only makes sense when you're asked why someone didn't get cancelled for that kind of behavior sooner. It doesn't mean that behavior was okay back then, it just means not as many people were paying attention to it as they are now in the same way they are now.
and i think that's a good reason to reflect on why so many people let stuff like this slide under the radar back then and not do it anymore going forward.
Marie Poubelle ...you know you can edit your comment, right? You don’t have to reply to yourself.
yeeees thank youuu.. it wasn't ok even back then
True. Even truer so, people were paying attention and were upset...but his fans spoke louder than his protesters.
This is it!!!!!!
"Back then" Shane did get in trouble. He got fired from his job, his mom and brother also got fired. There were consequences and Shane still is mad about the fact that he got fired.
He got fired, he has struggled getting sponsors, he's had transient friendships, he has gotten backlash on and off. Actors didn't want to be on his "film." Zachary Quinto panned it before it even came out.
He had consequences and backlash. He just ignored it.
And he's still self righteous that he ever had any to begin with.
whoa i didn't know he got fired, it was because of his TH-cam vids omg . idk why im surprised tbh
how did he even get so big in the first place anyway
I totally didn’t think of that.
@@petrichorbones I think it's cuz he made a content switch. He at some point stopped doing his weird skits, and started making more trendy content like "cinnamon challenge" type things. He jumped on bandwagons that got lots of views so I'm guessing that's part of how it happened?
I’m a teacher. My students range in age from 11 to 19.
Thank you for addressing the overwhelming cultural problem which expects young people to be the responsible party in any relationship (no matter the nature of that relationship) between a child or teenager, and an adult. All of my students, even the eldest, are incapable of thinking actions through to consequences. And the thought of a legitimate grown up exploiting that developmental stage makes my blood boil.
Also teens often associate relationships as friendships because that is the lens they know. A teen may see their favourite teacher or uncle/aunt as a “buddy” or “friend” that is normal HOWEVER it is still up to the adult to recognize this child is not your “friend” and to uphold the boundaries of that relationship.
I think a lot of people don’t understand that the reason it was “a different time” and “it was normalized back then” is BECAUSE OF SHANE. You need to remember that he was essentially one of the first TH-camrs, he was also very popular at the time. He started normalizing this shock humor on TH-cam and getting other content creators in on it as well. If that makes sense.
Yes! Exactly! It's his fucking fault it was "a different time". He wasn't following a trend - he was the one creating it!
great point!!
But there's a lot of many TH-camrs with shock humor or dark humor and is not creepy. Example, Filthy Frank, he's like the father of modern TH-cam humor. His content may not appeal to you, but his dark humor and satire was done right. Shane on the other hand is just... well, wrong.
I think the It's Always Sunny episode is a great way of showing why Shane is so gross with blackface humor. In its always sunny the humor is supposed to be: omg she looks like such an offensive loser.
Because in the show she is. You're SUPPOSED to not like her. You're supposed to root against the pathetic girl who thinks blackface is funny. In Shane Dawson's videos you're supposed to laugh at the negative black stereotype he's projecting and root for him. Gross.
Same lol. I mean I think about the times where I used to watch a lot of youtube and it was people like shane and onision who really normalized this kind of content like yikess
Hearing mature men discuss Shane is refreshing
d’angelo wallace made an amazing video on it. you should check it out if you haven’t seen it already :)
god yes, i wanna hug these two and thank them for being so elevated and analytical and sensitive
Shane Dawson is literally young enough to be my child. Blackface has NEVER been inoffensive, even back in the days of segregation - there was always an entire population that saw it as being offensive. "It was a different time" is a piss poor excuse for anybody's behavior. When enslavement was legal (well, it still kinda is, but I digress), people knew it was all the way wrong. Shane is the poster boy for "If trash was a person."
Also, I don't even welcome discussions from white people about racism - nobody has the right to tell me how I should interpret anti-Black behaviors. Some chick on a YT comment tried explaining Blackface to me, and girlfriend learned that day.
Say it louder for the people in the back people need to stop getting upset over getting held accountable for their actions if Shane has changed as a person then great maybe maybe he could be forgiven but he's shown no proof he's changed and apologies don't have to be accepted people shouldn't just be like "well I apologized so I'mma go back to what I was doing"
When you say that white people shouldn't talk about racism do you mean like manspleaning but from white people to other ethnicities or that white people shouldn't have an opinion on racism at all (Sorry if my question is dumb, it probably is, but it's only to be sure to understand) ? Other than that question I totally agree with what you are saying
@@definitelysomething4161 if I understood them correctly people who aren't being hurt by the problem shouldn't have a big say on what is a part of the problem.
I was in middle school when Shane first started. I watched him and when he started doing the blackface bits...it made me uncomfortable. I knew it was gross and not really comedy and I stopped watching. Even kids can pick up on when things are wrong. So to say he, as a grown man, couldn’t tell it was racist and in bad taste... idk.
go off queen!! it literally makes me so mad when people use the excuse "it was a different time," like whether it was 1 year ago or 50 years ago it doesnt matter, its still extremely harmful and wrong? i remember reading the comments of shanes newest apology video and being so upset because of how blindly his followers would accept his apology and excuse his actions, even though he didnt address everything hes done.
The fact that the fine bros did the millie puppet thing and then did kids react..... 🤢🤢🤢
Oh yea they’ve been known for predatory behavior
WHY IS NO ONE ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT THEM!! They have freaking kids theme videos and people like them should stay away from kids.
I WAS JUST THINKING THIS i'm so glad u said it god
@@basicbrittani And let's not even get into the whole Lia Marie Johnson situation
Actinium Lizard the whole what now? no please go on.....
Jarvis: "weird animal stuff he's done"
Jordan: *eyebrows*
Literally seen this comment the moment it happened 😂
I come to the comment section to make a comment on Jordans eyebrows and see it already been done.
5:37
__ -- -- __
His eyebrows are majestic
Honestly, you left out the worst parts of Hey Millie- the parts where they joke about how she was raped by her father, how another character threatens to rape her, and everyone is laughing.
Or the gun scene.
i just looked "the gun scene" up and what the fuck man.
yeah, pretty sure jarvis explicitly decided to leave that out. he said there were worse parts that he didn't want to show
I found d'angello wallace through the shane dawson a year and a bit ago. I skipped through it and 12-13 yr old me was horrified. I don't remember much, and I'm not going to search it up, but I felt physically sick. It just felt blatantly creepy and ick.
This scared me right in the lower gut what the fuck
I’ve never understood the “don’t take away his career though” comments. If he had any other job, this would absolutely get him fired immediately. I need to worry about what I post on Instagram because my employers may see it. The difference is that these youtubers are self employed and can just keep posting like nothing ever happened, if they feel like it. I wish TH-cam could pull the plug honestly.
Yet he did get fired and had issues regarding participating actors in his movie back then. Was very offended by it and probably still is..
also like... if a content creator doesn't deserve their platform taken away for essentially grooming children, doing minstrelcy/blackface, and sensationalizing mental illness, then what's the line here? that certainly seems like enough to make me think he doesn't deserve the platform he has
TH-cam profits from him.
TH-cam has a long history of ignoring or enabling abusive content creators, particularly when it comes to child abuse.
i know this is a year old but great point
It makes me so upset thinking he will forever make a good living because too many people and this platform do NOT hold him accountable. He doesn't deserve what he has at all, it was all built on the expense of other people. He's done nothing to deserve all the money he has and it's so not fair that these people are set for life when everyone else is fighting to pay rent.
Shane also went on a podcast and "jokingly" fantasized, in extreme detail, exactly how he wishes he could humiliate, torture, and eventually murder a co-worker on his film who called him out for his racism. It's... really gruesome and horrible, and all because she called him out on his bullshit. He claims it's a joke, but that leaves two options: either he is lying and just claiming it's a joke to try to get a pass, or he thinks that publically fantasizing about brutally murdering coworkers is funny. He also accused her of being mentally ill and said that talking about her like this on the podcast would probably drive her over the edge before proceeding to do so anyways. I don't remember which podcast, but I heard the audio in mörges' overview of many of the horrible things Shane's tried to avoid addressing directly and it is just... Horrifying. And not normal. At all. Who the hell not only fantasizes about torturing and murdering a co-worker, but thinks it's perfectly okay to cheerfully describe this fantasy to the entire internet, in detail? The only funny thing about Shane is that he goes around labeling other people as having all these mental disorders and claiming he's an empath because in reality people with a decent amount of empathy don't behave like this.
(Also, empaths don't constantly flex that they're an empath to get people to trust them. They just behave in an actually empathetic manner and earn that trust, Shane).
From experience, if they say they're an empath often enough or mention being an INFJ and how great/rare they are... Keep a very close eye on what they do. Not to say everyone is a manipulator with those qualities, but look out for red flags bc they use it as a stepping stool to their high horse of "look im a good person, see!" rather than their actions.
@@connorxx7180 INFJs aren't even necessarily the most empathic personality. The J stands for Judgement for a reason. My mother is an INFJ and she's an abusive narcissist. Spent half my life mocking me for having no friends and forcing me to take on various responsibilities with no experience, direction, or guidance and then humiliating me in public when I didn't know how to do them and asked for help because I had reached an age where I should already have known how to do this, even though she'd never teach me how. I still have major issues with things like job interviews and college professors and guidance centers because I'm still scared of asking for help, trying new things, and facing authority figures whose judgements will affect my life because I fear that I'll fail and receive no help or those authority figures will find me as unworthy of help or positive feedback as my own mother. Even as an adult my mother's never taken responsibility for how she's treated me - every time I try to sit down and explain my feelings because I want to have some kind of actual relationship with her, she blames me for "holding grudges" and having been a difficult child to raise.
My mother was capable of empathy - just seemingly not towards me. So I know first hand that INFJs are capable of great cruelty. The biggest joke? She's a social worker. She's worked with the Red Cross at disasters all over the US and with critically wounded soldiers flown back for care from all over the world for years and years and years. As an adult looking back at the arc of her life and the stories of what she was like when she was younger, I suspect she always had a controlling streak but the bad turn may have come from her beginning to suffer from Compassion Fatigue; I can only speculate, though, because she's never been mentally examined since she insists everyone else in the family are the ones with mental issues. I think she's just so hung up on the idea that she's the normal one and she's the one who can help everyone and she's the one who knows best that she never helped herself and she considered none of my ordinary problems valid or deserving of help because I wasn't literally dying, and she never listened to anyone else's opinions on her behavior because, in her mind, they had their own issues preventing them from seeing the correct way whereas she knew best.
She was apparently a very good person at one point. I just never met that person.
@@AlashiaTuol I've had a similar experience with an Infj and I'm sorry you had to go through that. ♡ I wish you the best with healing.
@@connorxx7180 Thank you, and you as well.
Thank you! Jokes takes less then a min or two. I don’t need to sit uncomfortable for more then that on a podcast.
the biggest difference with Bo is that the jokes are worded in a way that you understand that the punchline is aimed at the offender, not at the victim. So even though it's funny, you understand perfectly that it's very wrong
This is something many comedians can note of too. There’s a difference between making jokes about these serious topics and making “jokes” that are really just insults. This is why Dave Chapelle is so successful. He knows how to frame his jokes about sensitive topics in a way that isn’t insulting or harmful. He knows how to make people think about said topic.
@@beingme._.eilonwy4571 Dave forgot that in his newer Netflix specials.
@@beingme._.eilonwy4571 Dave Chapelle does not do that at all bro
@@beingme._.eilonwy4571 oof, Dave was one of the worst possible examples you could have used with some of his more recent material lol.
@@beingme._.eilonwy4571this did not age well considering literally all he has done since this comment was posted is make insulting, punching down type jokes at trans people. his latest special is barely comedy at all, just him talking about how he dosen't understand trans people.
So tired of “comedians” ripping on their audience for “not being able to take a joke”.
You failed at being funny, so, as an audience, we have every right to judge the content of the “comedy” if your execution was poor.
(In my opinion)There are 2 types of offensive comedy:
1 is to mock such hate and use it as a means of satire to make people look at an issue.
2 is to spread a negative opinion and/hate over a particular race, etcetera.
Shane fits more in my second category.
@@user-ec9rm2kx3j Yeah, I get what you are saying and I agree. I guess I am really young and didn’t really watch Shane at that time. If some people at that time found his comedy funny, then it would make sense. But if this guy had to apologise multiple times for his offensive content, then maybe it wasn’t funny at all.
I felt his content was offensive comedy but it was blatant and unfunny.
@@user-ec9rm2kx3j Type 1 offensive humour is often really the best comedy. James Acaster has a fantastic bit about transphobia that's quite similar.
@@user-ec9rm2kx3j for me I class Type one as Dark Humor it's about Dark Subjects but is not meant to Mock people who aren't absolute pieces of shit. Type two is plain old offensive humor
A lot of guys on Instagram make really sexist (and rape) jokes and every time I try to convey how bad those make me feel I get the: "you have no taste in humor"/"it's a joke, stop complaining" replies.
Jokes can be considered as such as long as people don't get hurt and feel bad about speaking up to those feelings, that's simply my opinion tho.
I also love Jordan's speech about cancel culture, because I'm so tired of hearing cancel culture cold takes. Like, cyberbullying is bad, and groupthink is generally bad, but deciding to criticize or just withdraw support from a creator who says or does bigoted things is completely within one's rights.
exactly
Ikr. Lets not act like people dont get the same type of behavior in real life. Ffs people are ostracized for wearing the wrong clothes IRL,
this is so true
Exactly! And often times the people are never truly canceled as their devout fan base will always excuse their behavior. Accountability is not a bad thing.
Sameeee
"It was a different time" argument makes my blood boil. It's always used on very serious issues and it's so dismissive to the issue
it really is that person outting themselves as someone who also took part
It's super weird I was totally an adult during that time and never found him funny or his 'comedy' unproblematic. So the "it was a different time" argument is at BEST saying "I was ignorant and did not care to educate myself."
“It was a different time” yeah people weren’t getting canceled over some things, but that doesn’t mean it’s okay just because you get away with it
Funny thing is is that the people who say that act like he was doing this shit in the 80s. No, it was just 2012 and it was common sense that explicit racism and pedophilia was wrong.
Steelo tbh people was getting away with a lot of things during that time. Being offensive was a cheap and new way to be funny. However, his humor was not funny and was simply ignorant. I agree he should be accountable. Though, I’m concerned with the amount of child related videos he made
Sadé Mouton Agreed.
if it really WAS a different time, shane wouldn't have been called out by anyone but he WAS. he was called out countless times by francesca ramsey, a big creator and he saw that criticism, didn't hear any of it and just attacked her. jarvis also said that obviously his own fans wouldn't call him out because they're his fans (they're also almost all kids) just like how white supremacists won't call out donald trump's racism.
@@sademouton7391 I disagree with calling Shane's "humor" ignorant. Like Jarvis said, TH-cam was a smaller community *when Shane started his channel* but by 2014, it was known worldwide. Shane Dawson didn't start changing his image until 2015, months after his directorial debut flopped *because he ignored critics and the advice of experienced producers to change his "humor" * but Shane didn't take down his old content. No matter how much he was called out or how many times he apologized, Shane Dawson maintained his "old" humor on his channel until it got exposed this year.
*TL;DR: Shane Dawson wasn't ignorant because he cared more about making himself seem like the good guy and less about being the good guy.*
‘Was Shane Dawson Ever Funny?’
The short answer: no
The long answer:
Nice pfp!!!
Very much no
the long answer is NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Donnie from rottmnt:
Not only was he not funny it was an offensive propaganda poorly disguised as “edgy jokes”. He almost cultivated a community of an un empathetic people. People are still like this because of him.
Another little thing relating to Bo and that last line from New Math, there's actually a clip from a concert around 2010 where there's a group of fifteen year old girls and some other audience members are getting rowdy and Bo's being pretty sweet and protective of the girls, and some guy in the crowd shouts that line to be funny, and Bo says to him "could you just stand over by that security guard for the rest of the show?" I just feel like that really demonstrates how aware he was of the responsibility he had with his young fans and setting appropriate boundaries.
YES I REMEMBER THAT OMG. I'm late I know but yeah, Bo burnham is great man. Despite it being the bare minimum, it's still great to see
i mean the "vinegar" joke was... yikes he got better?
Idk what “it was another time” means. Racism and pedophilia and weird things with animals was never ok
i see it as a time where cancel culture didnt exist. im still legitimately confused as to how shane got as big and popular as he did bc i was a child and avoided him bc i thought his content was uncomfortable and unfunny lol
“it was another time” just means it was normalised because of people like shane and onision 🦧
i see you everywhere and i love you :D
Joking is not accepting
Not to mention that other people were calling him out, but they didn’t have big platforms so nobody paid attention.
Loved their Bo Burham moment. I will never forget how in one of his shows he just straight up makes a statement about not raping people and people CHEERED in the audience. He also made a song about the fragility of straight white males called....."Straight White Males".
Bo makes content appropriate for his and his audience's age. He matured as he goes.
CUZ IM A STRAIGHT WHITE MALE
lmao I love that song
Yesss!
also, bo doesn't just say offensive stuff, he forms it as a joke. shane literally just did black face and did cringy and just straight up bad stereotypical stuff. bo is a great comedian bc he knows where the line is and dances around it, he doesn't just do a long jump right over
Hell that "Just don't fucking rape people! Didn't think I'd have to write that down for you" line is from the song "From God's Perspective", which is literally calling out the absurdness of religious beliefs, and again, he says shocking statements, but he isn't directly attacking religious people, even giving a good end message of " Hey, you're all so focused on whether you go to Heaven or not when you die, why not instead make Earth Heaven, and focus on the now?"
Vulpax 84 I honestly love that one part in the song where he says “My love’s the type of thing that you have to earn. And when you earn it, you won’t need it.” It hits so hard for me and like omg, this is why he’s my only favorite comedian.
Coming from the perspective of a year later, Shane has learned nothing and James Charles turned out to be a predator. Life sucks.
But. The bo burnham points still stand 👍
It got worse ✋
yep. coming from 2 years later and dangelo don’t make vids no more 😭
@@elijahfergus I mean he's not done with yt per say, he said in his last video he does have plans to get back into it.
@@scarlettTG2704 ik i watched his last vid but man i used to watch him every day i miss him sm 🥲
The difference between Sunny and Shane is that theyre playing characters who do blackface, and Shane is playing black characters.
Exactly. In its always sunny, the comedy is to look down on Dee who is a pathetic girl who thinks blackface is funny and ok. In Shane's videos you're supposed to look down on black people for their stereotypes and THEYRE the butt of the joke instead of the character.
And the ASIP scene also valid satire in the context presented - as it is definitely highlighting actual problems poc in the US deal with. So, it’s a great example of nuance in the use of blackface. Personally, I would like to see it not be used at all, because it is hurtful to too many people and the point can be made better without resorting to blackface or other tropes which have backlash against people on the margins rather than representing them well. It’s about beneficence for me, and Shane is devoid of it.
I say people on the margins, cause it’s transphobic and harmful to other people intersectionally.
@@alexisd6106 yeah, absolutely. The difference to me is that in these shows, the butt of the joke is how dumb the person doing blackface is. For Shane, being black is the joke. The blackface IS the joke the him rather than being a vehicle to say “look how stupid and racist this is”
Why does there need to be a difference. Both are bad both are inappropriate. Doing black face to make fun of doing black face is still Blackface and still offensive and mocking and dehumanizing. Just don't do it it's not that hard.
I lost focus for a split second and looked back to see D’Angelo, and I deadass thought I somehow changed the video with my mind
ME TOO
17:19 also imagine being a fan of shane and actually being sexually abused and then seeing this as a child?? it totally makes it seem like a normal and even laughable thing so i can definitely see how this could literally deter a kid from speaking up about that
I remember seeing that on one of his channels n I laughed…I was young too…..it’s scary that I thought it was funny n okay n I’m over here like “omg!!! Lucky!!!”….looking back now I feel disgusted n disturbed n a cringe like feeling
Something about new math is that Bo knows when he says the most outlandish lines and gives a reaction or a pause to highlight that that joke was bad
the fabled wink and nod
True. He picked that up from Tom Lehrer - who was also criticized and boycotted, by the way, but his and Bo's music and comedy skits were self-aware and commentated a thing or two about society, unlike Shane's.
Yeah, he actually does jokes correctly. He sets up the jokes and then makes a statement that would get people to think, “Hmm... that seems a bit...” but then adds the punchline. It’s like a hill you usually see in those graphs. But before the punchline hits the climax, the joke line goes for a dip, if that makes sense. That’s how you make an joke work. However, with Shane Dawson’s case, he just completely left out the punchline part or even the set up for the joke and did someone offensive and tried to tell people it was a joke.
I think one of the most definining things about Shane's vs Bo's humor is that Bo's lines aren't directed towards kids, and his main focus is clever word play. But Shane's whole joke is the outlandish statement itself.
Periodt tho
well said
I think with Bo it's mostly like, "I'm saying terrible things! Oh _YOU_ laughed at that? You're a terrible person, HAHAH!"
But with Shane it's like, "I'm saying terrible things, but I think it's funny, you're supposed to laugh at this."
I think that's the best way to put it. Bo uses offensive humor to bait people into laughing at it, so he can challenge his audience to ask *why* it's funny. Shane uses offensive humor because he just finds it funny.
i'm so happy you talked about monica lewinsky, she is PHENOMENAL and people still make jokes about her and dont realize that what she went through was ABUSE!!! thank you so much for bringing that up it's so topical and so rarely talked about
dude monica lewinsky deserves an apology from literally every fucking person on the earth
she was a 22 year old intern. which is adult, but like straight out of college. like at that point you have barely any real life experience with relationships. her brain wasn’t even fully developed, and he was THE FUCKING PRESIDENT. and SHE got the public ridicule!
disgusting.
The abuse from society was almost probably more severe than the innappropriate relationship.
I feel like Clinton is on the receiving end of just as many of those jokes. I’m not extremely informed on the situation tho, so can someone tell me what about their relationship made it abuse? Besides the fact the he was in a position of power, because that’s not enough. Her age doesn’t matter either, because 22. Was there some heavy manipulation going on or what?
@@RagnarLoudpak he was the fucking *president* and she was an *intern*
“Do you wanna come into my weird little house, I bet you feel bad for coming into my weird little house.” That’s an excellent description of watching a Bo Burnum stand up
*people who bring weirdos in their house to only make the weirdo feel weird.
It's my favorite
I had first heard Monica Lewinsky speak in a TedTalk about her experiences being basically the first nationwide cyberbullied person. And it's unimaginable..
i remember when that scandal was happening. it was like she wasn't even human. no matter which side of the topic you fell on, she was universally the loser. persona non grata. i cannot imagine what it must have been like for her.
Yeah if anyone is reading this and hasn't seen her TED talk about that, I would highly recommend it. Its probably the only TED talk I would ever recommend. Completely changed my perspective and what i thought i knew about her, the scandal and her life afterwards (tbf i went into it knowing barely anything cause im Australian). I went away from it with a huge amount of respect for Ms Lewinski and how she's managed to do so much in the face of such adversity and bullying.
First time here:
Seeing Jarvis get to fired up about this honestly makes me so happy, twitter will have you believe that the majority of people are excusing shane but that's not the case, they are the loud and wrong minority. I really found Jordan's approach on this podcast with dry humor and blunt jokes so funny 🤣 "comedy requires an audience and if the audience isnt engaged it's not the audiences fault" YES! You guys are doing great.
Shane: “that’s just what people found funny back then”
What we actually found funny back then: “nugget biscuit nugget in a biscuit”
And diamond sword!
I still find that funny because it’s silly and innocent.
Safety torch!
Peanut butter jelly time?
Getting people to click on a Rick Astley video
One of the biggest differences with Shane and Bo, imo, is the feeling of sincerity within the "jokes". Shane is doing things he genuinely believed were funny/OK, whereas Bo was making jokes ABOUT things he KNOWS aren't ok, and is making the subject into the butt of the joke, not the (for lack of a better word) hero.
Half the time Shane's "Jokes" aren't even jokes. They're just earnest statements. Like the whole cat scandal he had a while back... >>
@@carnuatus that was kinda my point lol
It was also the perspective. Bo’s joke was talking to a r*pist sure but Shane just was pretending to be one and depicting one for the sake of “funny”
exactly! how i put it is shane makes fun of marginalized groups and bo mocks people like shane and is aware that stuff isn’t okay
He wasn’t lying when he said this podcast had the British version of himself
Bo never set himself out as for children. Shane did. He encouraged those girls who fawned over him
even if Bo had set out to have a fanbase of a lot of teenagers it's not nearly as bad considering he was a teenager himself when he started. he also sets healthy boundaries w/ his younger fanbase unlike shane.
bo’s boundaries with his fanbase are like PERFECT imo, its so healthy and divided from him and his stage persona
when i first heard that shane and onision were friends in the past, i thought “how was someone who was as “good” as shane friends with someone as bad as onision” because i hadn’t really heard about shane’s past. when i heard about shane’s past, i was like “OH that makes sense now”
shane’s behavior is completely unacceptable and i feel bad for ever supporting him
The only Shane we stan in this household is Shane Madej from buzzfeed unsolved
Yessss
I like watcher better but he is great in both.
Ngl he do be funny
Edit: we also love Ryan cant forget him!
What about shane from smosh?
Shane Madej has shown multiple times that he
-respects women
-respects all sexualities
-respects all body types
-respects his fans and their age
-is ACAB
The Monica Lewinsky part was SUCH a great point. If you have seen her Last Week Tonight interview, you know. I think that interview changed me as a person, even though I already supported her when it wasn’t popular. When fans talk about predatory behavior from their favorite celebs, it often reminds me of that dynamic, except at least Lewinsky was LEGALLY old enough to consent (even though the extreme age and power dynamic contrast still ruined her life).
Yeah, that was a good interview. I was a kid when Clinton was president, and all I knew were the jokes and how normalized it got. To the point I never really thought about it from her side. That interview uh.. "woke me up" about it. I can't remember the wording I was going to use when I started typing this out, but yeah. The interview helped
What’s the video called? I looked up her name but I’m not sure which video to click on
@@lostotter1956 Public Shaming
We should start calling it The Lewinsky Dynamic. Give her the power.
The point of “edgy” comedy is the ass of the joke is the person doing the fucked up action, NOT the marginalized person being the ass of the joke by the person doing a fucked up action towards them.
the things shane dawson did in the past weren't "ok at the time", they just were normalised and so one held held him accountable
That’s exactly what “at the time” means. People didn’t feel like it was bad because the standards for behaviour were lower and the internet was, even more so, the home of morally deplorable behaviour. It’s not an excuse, but he probably was also influenced by other content that was frequent at the time as that was normalised behaviour, people didn’t see anything wrong with it. Idk how but that’s the truth.
I don’t think “ok at the time” is the right phrase, it was tolerated at the time I guess.
That’s not true though- people did call Shane out. One example is a black woman who had criticized Shave multiple times for his disgusting behaviour, and Shane sent his audience after her to mock her and be racist. Essentially, people have been calling Shane out ever since he started.
shut up People did call Shane out though. His fanbase would usually attack them and mock them. There were plenty of videos that were critical of Shane, people who called out his racism and pedophilia, etc. His behaviour was never okay.
tammi yes but it is a different time cause no one cared. People are more educated nowadays and they treat the internet and their own public image with more care.
Jordan is so damn on point.
Offensive or dark humour is fine but it needs to have thought put behind it. Great comedians know that being subtle and to a point make people think about what they are laughing at.
Just saying "haha dead babies" or whatever edgy Lord """jokes"""
Making a "shock and awe" statement then laughing at it while decrying people who thinks it's unfunny is just sad
True. A lot of dark humour that I actually find funny are usually ones where you think about it afterwards. And others aren't as sophisticated but they don't truly praise whatever terrible thing it's talking about. You can always tell their is criticism in deplorable behavior.
@@georgaseebalack6003 i think it came across in my first comment but I enjoy dark and potentially offensive humor not this edgy shock and awe style "comedy" that many people with no personality think is "funny"
Jarvis and Jordan gave some good examples but my favorite example is Frankie Boyle, he did a joke where he said "isnt it odd how pedophiles all dress alike? Glasses, balding, plaid shirt, denim coat. I guess that's just what children find so irresistible about them" boom!
dark humor is best when you're making fun of your own experience not just saying anything for shock value it isn't okay to mock marginalized groups of people period
@@luvcherry 100% agree
Georga Seebalack dark humor is about the intent as well. A lot of dark humor is satire and supposed to still make a statement. The people hearing the joke shouldn’t get offended, they should be laughing too because they know the comedian is making light of a sad situation
that Millie puppet series shit is really insane to me because the background story for her was that she was a child who actually experienced sexual abuse. Their act of grooming her becomes much more sickening in that aspect.
Is he racist or a pedophile? It's arguable. Is his content racist Or pedophilic? Most definitely. In this case, it really doesn't matter whether he himself believes in what he says, he has made so many so uncomfortable and has influenced children's way of thinking. I generally try to give the benefit of the doubt for most controversies, but in this situation, I really can't. It's really bad.
Yeah, same. It's the impact that matters.
He's definitely racist
This sums it up perfectly
I mean actions speak louder than words, but in this case both are saying "im a racist and a pedo" lol
That episode of South Park where Kyle's little brother was in a relationship with his teacher is my example of the joke is not about sexual abuse and grooming. The joke is the about the absurdity of what how everyone is dealing with the situation. The fact that male authorities didn't step in because she is an attractive woman even though Ike is a fucking 5 year old! And that this woman is speaking to Ike as if he a fully grown man that can comprehend anything that is happening. And having Kyle bringing things back to reality of this is a child and it doesn't matter that she is attractive or the Ike is going along with it.
Shane Dawson's stuff is just "I act like a weird pedo" with 0 nuance. There is no reactive response that builds on it. So that means the joke is the sexual harassment and abuse.
Now you don't have to find that episode of South Park funny and you may very well find it offensive as well. But the main point is the joke is about the chaos of the situation that adds a layers of depth to it and creats a social commentary. But just making a joke of you sexualizing kids with no other context is just you sexualizing kids. What part of that are we even supposed to being to see the joke in it?
Thank you. This. It's the underlying criticism and knowledge that it's wrong that makes a joke funny. When the terrible thing itself is what's supposed to be funny it never will be.
just a li'l correction, not that it changes anything about your point. ike is (or was in that episode) 3 years old.
Also South Park isn't made for kids. Shane's content was watched by children (he knew this too)
thank you!! I love south park and personally I found I was really uncomfortable watching that episode but I understood what they were trying to say. it's fucked up that we let this sort of shit slide because the abuser is attractive or the victim should've known better etc etc... a lot of people attack south park and especially that episode but need to understand what the episodes are actually saying. they're not agreeing with racism, p*dophilia, bigots etc., they're poking fun at them and making them look stupid so people understand why it's wrong
This! All of this!
"it was a different time, everyone was doing it!" - A Nazi in 1945
This is a historically accurate joke bc a lot of captured nazis tried to do exactly this😂💀
“Look lots of people are dying already” Pol Pot 1975
I actually heard people say this
"Why do we live in a world where people have consequences for their actions?"
-- Some comedian on the internet 2020
Hi
@@emilyrieck5252 hi
@@Batmantherealbatman hi
My giant ass is amazingly big and bouncy, but hi
Kianna Wilson wtf
I'm 21 and the single though of kissing a 11 year old is gross and so so weird
I’m 13 and the thought of being kissed by a 21 year old is terrifying and disgusting
@@user-nx3kt9rw5d I'm 14 and that seems like I'm gonna be killed after
@@user-nx3kt9rw5d escape this website while you still can.
Please.
Please go take meth or get in fights, it's less addictive and dangerous than this place
I'm 13 and the thought of kissing an 11 year old is gross and weird
111 111 I’m 13 and the thought of kissing anyone is uncomfortable.
Why does no one talk about how Shane also claims to be an empath? Someone who feels so much emotion on other's behalf wouldn't be making these "jokes"
Some of the most narcissistic people you will ever meet will claim to be empaths. At least that’s been my experience.
If someone claims to be an empath openly and loudly it’s usually just themselves announcing that they think they’re a good person and usually they are not anything close
The problem with Shane is that so many of his fans were young and didn’t know that what he was doing was wrong. He normalized those kinds of ‘jokes’ to us and we thought nothing of it because “he’s popular, he wouldn’t do anything wrong”.
"Do you think the Vlogbrothers were up to this shit?"
YES! I love how you mentioned them and Michael Buckley- they were Shane's *peers.* The excuse that "it was a different time" totally dismisses the fact that there were big accounts that *weren't doing that shit.* Were those three men perfect? No, they're human. But they are so consistently checking themselves and holding themselves accountable for shit that doesn't come even *close* to Shane's bullshit.
The big difference between Shane’s blackface and the blackface in something like It’s Always Sunny or Tropic Thunder is the punchline. Dee and Kirk Lazarus are the ones portrayed as being insensitive and stupid, and that’s the point. The joke is that it’s bad to do blackface, and these people are so stupid that they did it anyway. But Shane’s blackface characters don’t poke fun at the concept of blackface. He’s not making himself or blackface as a practice the butt of the joke. Instead, his blackface jokes are literally a modern-day minstrel show. The black caricature is the butt of the joke.
I swear to god, Jordan looks a different person in every video.
FAX
Master of disguise? 😂😍
Jordan looks like if someone were to draw Jarvis but not look at the reference often enough lol
This is my first watching, was getting so distracted trying to figure out if this is the same person just wearing a mustache..... it is, isn't it ?
Blue41e nope
I was a young fan of Shane Dawson’s and it’s heart breaking because I genuinely wish I wasn’t. I was entertained by is videos and work because the older boys in my neighborhood acted similar. His content made me feel like it was okay for older men to fetish me when I was only 10-12 because they are joking/ or cool. And I came to this realization when his Jeffery Star/ conspiracy fame started taking off. Some of my college classes were talking about him, said his name and it triggered my ptsd to my sexual abuse/attacks immediately. I threw up in the bathroom and started hearing a bunch of men’s voices and and feelings ghost hands all over me. He groomed kids on the Internet I am convinced
What is even worse was when I was 11 or so years old i spent the night at a friends and her niece (5 years old) loved to hang out with us. (To her we were the cool kids) . My friend brought up the same language Shane Dawson used in that peep video with Lisa. My friend started to sexually groom/assault her niece. I was uncomfortable and left the room. I didn’t get what was wrong/ why I felt this way because she was “teaching” her niece what Shane and Lisa was “teaching “ that girl and my friend was just physically showing her cause her niece didn’t get it. I walked home and told my mom the next morning. I then wasn’t allowed to see that friend anymore.
Shane Dawson may or may not be a pedo. But he is a twisted man whose humor groomed children for all the pedos out there. Who miss guided children to think they were teaching other children. He needs to be held accountable and tbh he needs to quit. I hate that man. I had his existence blocked out from 14- 24. And I wish it had stayed that way.
This comment needs more attention. Thanks for sharing it.
Kimi Ochre Clay thanks for that! It hard to post but I wanted too. I think it’s important I want other to know
We were groomed. I hate it too. It's a bitter pill to swallow. That fact that he was so openly sexual made it feel a little rebellious to watch it. I would hide it from my parents and I didn't know how bad it actually was for me until I grew up. I think my disillusionment came around the time we're they started the Millie channel. I felt so uncomfortable watching it.... I wish I could save my younger self from getting exposed to very harmful ideas about sex... But at least he is gone now.
I was sexually assaulted as a kid and never understood why and videos like what he made normalizes that for kids who might watch that and think it’s normal and okay for that to happen to them. It’s like teaching them that they’re there for the satisfaction of adults. Especially someone who you see as being famous and important. A lot of times kids will emulate the people they look up to and the cycle continues. I really don’t know what I’m talking about completely this is just my thoughts.
Don’t worry, I’m on the same boat as you. It made me genuinely upset that Shane (who I thought was just some good person at the time) did and said these horrible and disgusting things. The worst part was when I thought the things he said and insinuated at the time were true. That me as a Hispanic person should feel ok with his racist jokes, me as someone who was SA’d by my own bio father, should feel ok with all the pedo jokes and that it’s ok that they mock and normalize what happened to me. “As long as everyone else was happy and laughing along even at the expense of my well-being and life, it’s all good why ruin it for others?” Has haunted me for a long time and it will continue to affect me for the rest of my life. Like I didn’t know I had a molt that eventually outgrew and went away by good people surrounding me and telling me how you’re not alone and it’s ok to talk about it. I’m glad that Shane is getting what he deserves and I hope that more victims (let’s be real, ALL of his fans including current ones are victims) leaves him and speaks out against him and his terrible behavior.
He was never funny; it was his friends (Garrett, Drew, Andrew) that were funny
They were the only reason I even watched Shane. Videos where he was alone were just boring and weirded me out kinda
I sometimes watch spooky boys still to this day because of drew mostly, he barely posts now and garret is one of my fav youtubers
Drew was actually funny. Then Garret came and he's also entertaining. Andrew, meh. Shane Dawson had never been funny.
Fr. Garrett is the sweetest person ever
Shane morphs into whatever he thinks people would accept. He went from "edgy" to "empath" to "makeup bad ass" because of Jafar Starbucks. If you watch his "documentaries" you'd see how he starts with an idea and then when he meets the person he just morphs into "ohh i understand you, everything is ok". It's so sad.
I know this is a year late I apologize lol, but remember that documentary with Molly Burke? That rubbed me so wrong, it seemed like he was exploiting a blind girl for views and granted she got a big following after, I still didn't like it. It seemed super ingenuine, as most of them seemed. (*cough cough* Eugenia Cooney. Probably the worst video he made during that time) even I fell for his "empathy" at first because I was like 13, but it soon became clear that he was never genuine. It's so awful to see.
JAFAR STARBUCKS 😭
Jafar Starbucks lmaoooooo 😂
Jafar Starbucks made my fucking day
So I work in the child trauma field and the D'Angelo Wallace video was so upsetting to watch. The "that's just how my family is" just didn't sit right with me. One of the first things I was taught starting my job was about setting appropriate boundaries with the kids we serve since a majority have a sexual abuse history and don't always know what are appropriate boundaries with adults. And idk a family that enforces a messed up standard for what's appropriate behavior with a child worries me greatly
right? it almost made it worse, because it revealed that that kind of behavior was regularly occurring in his family lol. it didn't say "it's subculturally normal that shane did the thing," it said "not only did shane do the thing, but so did his aunt"??
What I love about Jarvis vs D'Angelo (who I also religiously watch), is that Jarvis tries to understand what the person was trying to do, comedically, and explains either why it is bad, how it went wrong, or how to do it better/not be so offensive when trying to be comedic.
I think it's probably because D'Angelo is more of a commentator while Jarvis is openly a comedian/commentator.
Guys, it literally was not a different time when it comes to blackface. Stop with that excuse
Or Pedophilia
yes!! i’ve seen too many justifying comments about what he’s done
I was a very big fan of him when I was around 11/12/13 and genuinely feel like his content partially led to me being hyper sexual at a young age as well as normalizing abuse in my late teens early 20s as a result. His content had real world consequences.
That is exactly why I am so angry at him, I mean he just does not want to realize how much big impact his words and actions have. He does not even acknowledhed, that he did this. UGH
You are so hundrend procent right.
Seeing the effects of one messed up creator on SO many young individuals is awful. I'm grateful i was a bit too young to end up in his target audience. I only heard about him thru d'angello wallace's video. Thankfully by then I was old enough to see how disturbing it all was.
That's what I feel a lot of content then was like. I was hyper sexual at a young age and it was very easy to find things that encouraged that. I was a fan of Shane, Onision, Jeffree Star, and Blood on the Dance Floor, and it was encouraging, it felt good to see people being like yeah you're like 12 and hyper sexual but that's normal and cool. I only escaped possible abuse by creators and stuff at the time, not because I knew to stay away from them, but because I naively thought that they would never actually reciprocated things like that. I had a major crush on singers and creators and if I'd thought they actually were into people my age at the time, I would have gone after it. I would have found their interest in me to be flattering, I'd have felt special. It's horrible to imagine myself back then, reading fanfics and thinking about how I wished they would be into me, but that they weren't into people so young, but knowing now that they WERE. I watch interviews and stuff with victims of those people and I think about how if I hadn't thought more of those people, I could have become another victim. Idk if any of this made sense, it's all just freaky and scares me.
I was in elementary when I started watching him……I’m not really sure what year but whatever age u are in 3rd or 4th grade, it was 2000 n whatever that age is
AMEN the hypersexual behavior at 11???? HE DID THAT TO ME.
I don't understand why the Fine Brothers don't get more shit for working with Shane so closely. Millie was a collaboration of the 3, right? The Fine Brothers should be called out for this shit just as much.
It’s concerning when you consider that they regularly work with children. A lot of people have come out and said that the fbe channel is a really toxic environment which is concerning. And from what I remember weren’t there original kids reacts videos in their apartment or something? I’m not saying they have done anything to those children but it seems strange that they could work so closely with children and also feel comfortable making such horrific jokes about children
@@caitlinwheeler7915 same like i had no idea the fine bros did something like that and the idea that they worked so closely with children is insane to me because how can you make jokes like that and then turn around and decide to work with actual children?
I like the term “it explains it but I doesn’t excuse it.” because that’s how I feel when people say it was “a different time”.
It being a different time might explain why he did those things but it doesn’t excuse it. don’t call it an excuse.
yeah it explains why he didnt get cancelled sooner but doesnt make it right
The most unbelievable part about this video is that the one named Jarvis doesn’t have the English accent
Though I'm not a big Bo burnham fan, there's tons of differences between his comedy and Shane's they might both say not great stuff, but Bo uses facial expressions and inflection to tell you it's wrong or inappropriate, Shane sits there with a straight face or serious voice like its just a statement. You can tell that Bo is being staterical and making jokes way easier than you can with Shane.
New to the channel, thought this was one person talking to himself with a mustache and accent.
oh my god same😭i was confused at first
The thing abt Bo's jokes is that he delivers it in a way that you know immediately that it's definitely a joke whereas Shane just says shocking things in a serious tone and you have to double take and wonder if he meant it
This is excluding the fact that Shane crossed the line by following up his words with actions
Also with Bos joke the actual punchline wasn’t always being black or on a race or rape. Those themes may have been incorporated into the joke but they weren’t the butt of it. Which is why it was actually funny unlike Shane
The hypocrisy is strong with this lol
@@wacksonjittemore4013 ?
@@rowan. If offensive stuff is fine and this is really about "it wasn't funny" then why are they so pressed about something not being funny
@@wacksonjittemore4013 What are you talking about? Have you listened to any Bo Burnham song? You seem to have missed the entire point. Bo's jokes are obviously mocking people who think rape or racism are okay while Shane's aren't. Also Bo's jokes aren't just like "look at this shocking racist thing", there is a setup and a punchline there. So those kind of jokes are fine to make when 1. you aren't a racist/rapist/pedo/etc yourself and 2. it's clear within the joke that you condemn such actions. Maybe that wasn't clear from this podcast, but obviously there is a good reason why it's okay when Bo makes such jokes and it isn't when Shane does it.
The biggest difference with Bo Burnham and Shane Dawson in their shock-value humor, is that Bo Burnham punches up. The butt of his jokes are either the character he plays, the bad person in the scenario, or some outlandish other character. Never the victim. His jokes are classic dark humor jokes, they don't make it out to be funny to do bad things, they inherently make fun of those bad things to make them easier to talk about, which is the point of dark humor. It's a form of humor where you can discuss and normalize the topics of taboo subjects. It's often more helpful than harmful.
Shane Dawson's humor doesn't have a steady line of reason, there's no punchline, it's just "look at me doing bad thing, haha, it's funny cause it's a bad thing" when that's not funny. Bo Burnham is about absurdism and dark humor, Shane Dawson doesn't even have humor. He's punching down to people, the victims, minorities, minors, etc.
This same shit is why I despise people calling outright hatred or bigotry "dark humor". Being an asshole, doing disgusting things, they aren't funny. Dark humor is one of the most difficult forms of comedy because it ties a very fine line between being too tame or not funny enough to be dark humor, and being too cheesy and uncomfortable, or too dark to be balanced out well with the joke. Bo Burnham is great because he walks that line very well. Shane is missing the mark by a mile and then getting upset when he's called out for it. Dark humor is a dangerous comedy to play into because things can be taken wrong and can just sound bad, it's a thing you run by people a lot when making an act, and it's something you immediately step up to apologize and take responsibility for, even if you don't think you should have to.
There's no misdirections, puns, punchlines, none of that in Shane Dawson's comedy, if you can even call it that. It's just "Look! Blackface!" Whereas, one of Bo's jokes that I remember well, about him playing a slave in a movie and reinacting it, called Whiplash, he puts the right inflection and attitude to make it clear he's being snotty, he's playing his character. He plays a parody, and shows it in his behavior. A slight head wobble, a snort out the nose, a purposefully sassy smirk and glancing at the crowd in the right way, the cadence and timing of each word, it all plays into really playing up that character, overdone just enough that it's obviously a joke, obviously a parody, but not so overdone it takes away from the good ol' funnies.
Instead of being so stubborn about his humor, Shane needs to seriously look into how jokes are constructed. While, with many art forms, there can be more interesting takes outside the box, humor is something that you have to be careful with, especially dark humor. When you make dark jokes that punch down, when you just say bigotry or hate with a quick "It's just a joke, bro", you normalize hatred. That's just how it is. Parodying hate, it's not something that's easy to do, and a lot of people think they can just be an asshole and say it's a character, when that's just not how it works. If the satire is not clearly satire, I will assume it's genuine hate, because genuine hate is far more prevalent than any genuine satire. I can hope and try to assume it's not intentional, but the fact is that there's too many people claiming satire to hide behind when they spout disgusting bullshit for people to be willing to take it as satire. Shane needs to either realize that his humor isn't fitting the necessary requirements for dark humor, and either get better at that shit, or get the fuck out of that genre. No in between.
A great video that covers a lot of this kind of stuff is Matpat's video on Pewdiepie's anti-Semitic joke, why it failed, and how we can learn about comedy and how we can recognize when a joke is no longer a joke but rather outright bigotry or hate. A lot of it falls into punching up rather than down. Punching up is making the, say for example, making a joke about rape, but making the butt of the joke the rapist. These are funny and even spoken out about as ways to make good rape jokes, an example Matpat gave was one of the absurdism of rape itself. Of the concept and how ridiculous it is to want to do that or to do that in the first place. It never makes the victim feel at fault or puts them anywhere near the butt of the joke.
I myself am a minority, transgender, and gay, and there are jokes about such topics that can make me laugh, it's just you need to be aware of who you're targeting as the butt of the joke, and the context of societal tenseness around an issue. For example, trans jokes aren't often funny unless made by trans people. Making jokes in good fun is very common actually, we joke about transphobes trying to make shitty jokes and make them better, we joke about pronouns and about common names we choose, etc. It's funny relatable humor. But in most contexts, trans jokes are a little tense, a little uncomfortable, because it's an issue of us and our rights being threatened atm. It's hard to find humor in that, and I haven't seen many people make genuinely funny dark jokes about it, most of the time it's just outright hate. Context of the world matters as well, is my point.
Thank you for reading.
Sincerely,
a dark humor loving trans boi
I would read this all over again, 10/10 essay
@@oliviabreen6896 10/10 compliment, totally made my day like a few times over cause I forgot about it and saw it again rewatching this video, haha!
Also, adding to what I said before, I've found some actually good jokes relating to trans folks by cis people where it doesn't punch down, albeit they do tend to be more rare.
And elaborating on why trans people and people of minorities can joke about people within their own group more easily, it's because you're not making fun of other people who are below you in social heirarchy/oppression. Usually it's not only making fun of others, usually the audience themselves, but also the person making the joke is actively making fun of themselves as well.
Bo Burnham remains a fantastic example of shock humor, imo, though. He's never punching down, he's making genuine satire and mockery OF bigots and people who do shit on minorities. He's making a mockery of sexism in a way that's subtle, not because we don't recognize it, no, it's easy to tell it's a mockery, but the actual things done to display to our brains that it is a mockery, a satire, a character to all openly joke and laugh at, they're all super subtle.
I respect him completely for shifting genres a teeny bit, although I'd argue he's still in dark humor, just not shock humor as much, it leans a little more existential and feels a little more mature, which is neither good nor bad. Just different.
That being said, he'll probably always be a fantastic example of well done dark humor, regardless of if it's shock, or existential, or whatever it ends up being. (I'm biased a bit cause I grew up on his humor a bit, (early to mid teens) but I think with how well loved his work is, the bias isn't necessarily clouding my vision entirely.)
Very well said
Unrelated but on the topic of trans jokes: one of my favorite jokes was one by a cis guy who stutters and he said he identifies as a laugh because (and I quote) “he-he-he-he-he/him”
And god I just can’t help myself to a really bad good joke
@@OliverStarfall I love those sorts of jokes when they aren't malicious. Michael Jackson's accounts having the pronouns "he/he"? Fucking hilarious.
I also love incorporating speech issues into a joke in a benign way.
I've never heard that joke, but honestly, it sounds very funny. Good trans jokes aren't too hard, people just can't often visualize them without putting trans people as the butt of the joke, sadly. ^^;;
"i'm not saying he's..." listen man if it acts like a duck and quacks like a duck it's probably a duck
He is definitely a predator. I saw a long Twitter thread of him doing horrible shit to minors. He asked young fans to twerk for him, tried to get a kid to eat Dick cookies, tried to "teach" that same kid sex stuff, said CP shouldn't be illegal or something along those lines, etc. He is horrible and disgusting. The list of shit he has done against minors I think should qualify him as being a predator.
I love how Jarvis and Jordan are two versions of the same person. And the fact that they are both wearing grey t-shirts, glasses and black headphones + J- names further proves my theory.
Great video, D’Angelo’s video was really good too and it’s awesome to get multiple point of views
That scene from Always Sunny can also be interpreted to be a commentary on how white people tend to talk over POC when talking about race-related issues
What Shane did is just blackface
I think my issue with dangelos interpretation saying "it's not funny either it's cringe" it's like we are meantto be laughing at dee because of how cringe it is not what either of these people described
Shane Dawson is the human embodiment of a bruh moment
The man doesn’t even deserve a good meme like bruh moment
That’s how much of a Bruh moment it is
More like Not funny didn't laugh moment
Nugcon nah
I love your analysis of this issue, but my one criticism is your continued giving Shane the benefit of the doubt. I have an incredibly hard time believing he's not racist or he's trying or whatever like it's clear at this point that he doesn't care at all
True.
i think it's to protect himself from claims of "slander" like if shane tries to sue or something
His "comedy"is low effort that's the first thought in his head type jokes. Real comedy is thought out and has a point. I have no doubt he has racist tendencies because his comedy feels like it's the first thing it comes to him
Exactly. In d'angelo Wallace's video theres a clip of shane saying (about his black friend at the time) "I have to help Shauna with her youtube channel because she's black she doesnt know how to work a computer..."
Like what???????? Theres no joke there, thats just a racist statement. I cant say he isn't racist anymore.
@@nessagardner2253 the joke is thats its racist. He's so edgy & shocking 🙄
I love that Jordan’s glasses make him look like he’s wearing eyeliner
“It was a different time” is usually reserved for like, monumental changes in history. “Why did the Bible endorse slavery” well it was a different time before slavery was even thought of as something that could be abolished on a wide scale. “Why did people think it was okay to smoke around kids?” Well it was a different time, studies weren’t out yet and if they were they didn’t get enough attention to be seen as something important.
“It was a different time” does not refer to things that happened online ten years ago. The internet was in a different place, but it was in no way societally okay for any of those “jokes” to fly.
The comparison to Monica Lewinski was AMAZING and I can’t believe I hadn’t thought of it before. This is my first video I’ve seen of yours and I’m already hooked. You guys are so articulate and well spoken and respectful and deserve a billion more views. Keep up the amazing work!
Wait so Netflix removed that scene in Community but approved of Cuties, how??
Right?!
Oh that’s wild to think about. Yikes.
Idek anymore
Money
-Netflix, more than likely
Netflix: "Racism bad, pedophilia and sexualizing young kids? That's fine."
I’m a fourteen year old, don’t think these jokes are funny lol
You are the chosen one
@@karilari8057 im 13 and these jokes are TRASH
Saaaaame
15 here and honestly same, these barely qualify as jokes.
same
Bo Burnham is really good at punching up. His jokes aren't "Hahaha rape, racism, homophobia!!". Its making fun of the rapist, the racists and the homophobes. In the examples you showed even at 16 he's was (in my opinion) showing that he found those things bad. Like things he was at the time saying were wrong.
They weren't amazingly funny or really that good. But he wasn't being joking at the expense of the people facing it but the people doing it.
And he's gotten so much better at it so he's clearly learning. And understands how to do it well.
The difference between Bo Burnham's lowkey offensive jokes and Shane's is that Bo's are actually jokes that are f u n n y. All Shane was doing is saying offensive inappropriate disgusting shit, and using the joke thing as an excuse. Bo uses them to enhance his message, and humor.
He didn't apologize for lying about having cancer and admitting to lying about it, no one is speaking about that
he WHAT
H U H ?
there’s nothing on the internet suggesting that
@@tomatolover8980 (th-cam.com/video/awBSqYcngCY/w-d-xo.html 12:30)
Reina Moran damn, i mean at least he cleared it up right after but that's still shitty
The guy on the left looks like he's wearing a Halloween costume of the guy on the right
In nicer news I’ve been on testosterone for a few months and both of you combined are my facial hair goals
Similar boat; good luck!
honestly this is nicer news these comments are so sad i needed this tbh, congratulations! (even tho i'm 10 months late lmao)
@@Re-iv5pv hehe thanks! update my facial hair is coming in nicely B)
how is it going? :D
@@cisrot Yay! Saw this a year later and seeing your update brings me Joy. I am mixed up with who I really am. I'm bio female but doing my makeup after cutting my hair super short made me dissociate and I felt like a guy before the makeup came on.
“Being shocking is a shortcut to being funny” Was such a good quote. For example, Shane Dawson, Amy Schumer, some of the newer Adam Sandler movies where they’re just cringey and not funny. It’s a really good point I never realized until now.
THANK YOU for destroying the “it was a different time” excuse 🙄
My little sister is almost 12 and if I found out she went to a meet and greet and the 21 yr old man KISSED HER ON THE LIPS I would spend my life hunting him the fuck down. How in the WORLD do people see that as okay. So incredibly traumatizing for those kids who later realize the extent of how nasty it was.
I hate that people say that “it was a different time” to try to excuse him. Even if no one at the time had said there was a problem with what he did, the fact he did it is not okay the bad part isn’t when he did it, it’s when he did it and never admitted he did something wrong or saying it was bad but excusing himself for what he did or not admitting to all of it etc.
EXACTLY. Like this is a more extreme example but. Slavery was very common in the 1800s. It was indeed a different time does that make it ok tho? Absolutely not. IT WAS STILL DISGUSTING.
Just because racist jokes may have been more popular back then does make them ok
But like...even if you believe in the whole "it was a different time argument" (which people shouldn't) it would be a different time because of SHANE
If it was a "different time" the people who make the status quo or the norm are the people who have power and an audience. Which was HIM AT THE TIME
HE NORMALIZED THIS SHIT