John Gregory Edwards, 5/11/1948 --- 12/25/2017 For those that may not know, John Edwards, master automotive machinist at Costa Mesa R&D, passed away on Christmas Day, 2017. Such a low key guy with so much to share ..3/8/2022
its really cool that you guys are the real deal. Keep it going, America needs people and businesses like you and yours.. THIS is what makes America great, NOT being a THROW AWAY SOCIETY....
Was that machine specific to only balancing flywheels? We didn't see the beginning weight. Did the customer tell you what he wanted it to weigh or just to remove the large lip on the back of the flywheel? If he gave you a weight did you have to remove and weigh several times to get it right? Finally I saw the bit smoking from the dry cut. I'm not a machinist but wonder if a coolant and a wet cut should have been used? Or was the cut a little aggressive causing the excessive heat and smoke?
Balanced is very important, be sure to rebalance our flywheel. I have some clients that want their flywheels resurfaced and rebalanced whenever they do a clutch job. You would be surprised how out of balance a flywheel and clutch cover is. right from the factory.
I wonder how small and light of a flywheel a machine like this will balance? What I mean is, there are premium compettition and collector's yoyos that, depending on material and style, tend to weigh between 45 grams to 70 grams (about 1.5 oz to 2.5 oz) with each dissembled half (which you'd balance independently) being . Much more than a toy now, I'm not sure most folks really balance on a machine so much as they try them out and chuck vibrating ones in a discount bin so sell as b-grade. There's be a lot fewer b-grades if the knew how to skim off a little material on one side etc. to balance the yoyo half. Depending on style they range from a flywheel shape to a deep-dish mini-bowl.
One mandrel fits most, but have special mandrels for special flywheels. Of course, the best way to do a flywheel is with the crankshaft. I keep several cranks just for those occasions.
It really took it down to 8.5? what Subaru is this from? I know the stock WRX flywheel is between 22-25lbs and the STI is 18.9lbs and my EXEDY is 13.3.
Aha! Much like a brake lathe process followed by a wheel balance! I never thought it would translate so 'simply'. Also, we generally added weight to rims, not take material out, dont we ;)
Hi john, interestig vid. Did I notice delrin pads on the balancing machine where the shaft sits/rotates. Did you manufacture the balancing machine yourself? Thanks
@fiatnutz Most older engines have rust on the flywheel and pully. Its usually an evenly dispersed layer of rust but i think it could upset the balance in time. And what would happen when one would remove the rust with a wirewheel?
Hi John, I had a question. After removing that material from the Flywheel and since its going on a performance engine,Wouldn't the flywheel be weakened by the material being removed.I would think it would be smart to Cryo or Heat treat the flywheel to make it stronger like the do with Ring & pinions for instance.Or would it be unnecessary to do that?
John, is this effectively the same method used to balance a damper? I didn't see a video up for doing that. Probably a little redundant but I'm curious. Do you drill into the side of a damper just like the flywheel?
@1971ojoalparche1971 Lighter flywheel lowers total weight of moving parts, making the car pick up and lose revs faster. Factory flywheels are heavier, because heavier flywheel can store more momentum, making engine run stable and providing good low-end torque.
@urbex2007 - The manufacturers do a lot of R&D on their cars before the ever see the light of day. You don't want to have an engine that is like a light switch with regards to power. As an enthusiast you can appreciate this fact, but having this type of power band in the snow, or for grandma to drive is not so good. Mfr's have to give everybody something so they can sell their cars. That's the fun part for you to see just how much additional power you can get out of their products.
how critical is it tht the flywhel is balanced? I turned a spare down on a lathe that isnt quite perfect, and im not sure any more lol. its gonna be going round to a rate of about 8kso id assume so, but im pretty sure it wasnt when it came off the donor car
Hi John, do you have presentation on resurfacing and balancing a dual mass flywheel? I want to see how you guys done it including measures taken. Thanks
Cryo will increase some strength and make the flywheel run slightly cooler. Remember that manufacturers use a specific weight on their flywheels to balance the needs of good idle and road speed performance, they are not concerned with performance, Aluminum flywheels are horrible for the street because they are way too light, engine idle is eratic.
What was the weight of the flywheel before and after balncing? How much lightening do you recomend for mid to high performance street V-6's with manual trans? Thanx.
Technically, balanced is balanced at any rpm. Turbo's and things that go 200k~+ rpm structurally change as they spin that fast and need to be balanced at such high speeds - but in the realms of cams/cranks, the metal doesn't change at all to make any difference. It's really down to how the balance is set up to work - technically you could make a balance work by just one rotation if it was sensitive enough; ergo anything from 1 to 10krpm is fine so long as the equipment is built for it.
@U3erpru7ser - faster wear on all the rubbing components in general. Why is there rust on the flywheel and pulley, anyway? You must be dealing with another engine and not the original - I'm only guessing here?!?!?!
I'm teaching an engines class at Golden West College right now - 2 nights a week. Take this calss a couple of times and you may be about ready to get your hands dirty.
The flywheel wouldn't loose much strength because where the material is located in this case, it may loose some structural rigidity but not enough to matter unless your gonna be running alot of rpm's
hi i am changing my TVR chimaera 4 litres V8's clutch this week.was wondering about doing some work on my flywheel.....its use a rover V8 4 litres and a T5 BG i bought an HELIX racing clutch.any help....tks a lot..
John, good video. I'm trying not to be a prick. I don't do balancing as a profession, but the same question crossed my mind while watching the video; how does balanced at 700 rpm behave at 7000 rpms or more? Can a balanced spin at 750 reliably predict a balance spin at 7000 and above? From your previous comments on the poor balance of off the shelf Subaru flywheels and having my stock engine above 6000 a couple time over it's 200k life, I'm guessing a flywheel zeroed at 750 does fine @7000.
Even at 700 RPM, there's resonance/vibration and these machines certainly aren't analogous to it. In fact, they are specifically designed to detect it. Therefore, they will typically detect at 700RPM what humans believe manifests at several thousand RPM.
By "blower motor" do you mean a naturally aspirated engine that someone has put a supercharger on or are you talking about a turbocharged motor? There are a lot of turbocharged Subaru engines out there.
Technically, balanced is balanced at any rpm. Realistically though, this is not the case as you can never reach a perfect balance. A 'tiny' imbalance at 1000rpm could be catastrophic at 10,000rpm as the forces on the supports/bearings created by the imbalance are not so small anymore, especially if the imbalance lowers the objects natural frequency/whirl speed to operating range. Violent things will happen! I'm not sure what you mean about the metal structurally changes at very high rpm?
This questtion is probably asked alot but I want an answer to... What would the average price be to get a manual (5-speed) flywheel resurfaced and balanced?
@fredjahnert Oh jeesus...its called modification.Of course it won't dampen harmonics from the crank as well,but it will allow the engine to rev faster. you lose some you gain some
Cobalt512 Its the hormonic resonance because he is grinding so far away from where the flywheel is mounted, the closer to the centre the deeper the sound will be. hahahaha i dont really know im just guessing
This does not improve the car. It can lead to oscillations at higher speeds which can break the shaft/decrease performance and lifespan. You are not a mechanical engineer, they designed it for a purpose.
Hope you consulted an engineer before you hacked all that metal off. It could explode like a handgrenade if not done correctly. Less mass also can cause warping. Now it needs explosion testing. Wind it up to 10,000 rpm and see if it self destructs.
John Gregory Edwards, 5/11/1948 --- 12/25/2017
For those that may not know, John Edwards, master automotive machinist at Costa Mesa R&D, passed away on Christmas Day, 2017. Such a low key guy with so much to share ..3/8/2022
I hope John rests in Peace. I pray for him and his family
its really cool that you guys are the real deal. Keep it going, America needs people and businesses like you and yours.. THIS is what makes America great, NOT being a THROW AWAY SOCIETY....
Was that machine specific to only balancing flywheels? We didn't see the beginning weight. Did the customer tell you what he wanted it to weigh or just to remove the large lip on the back of the flywheel? If he gave you a weight did you have to remove and weigh several times to get it right? Finally I saw the bit smoking from the dry cut. I'm not a machinist but wonder if a coolant and a wet cut should have been used? Or was the cut a little aggressive causing the excessive heat and smoke?
Do you do balancing as a profession? I've never seen flywheels balanced at those speeds, would like to see you doing that. Video, soon?
The machine has a rotary encoder that tells me the location of the imbalance, I go to that point and remove the necessary amount.
The balancer was produced for Sunnen by Fentech in Fenton, MO.
@U3erpru7ser - Depends on how much is there. Surface rust will not kill you, deep pits will.
Thank you mr Edwards! I allways wanted to know how that is done.
Shouldn't you do the balancing with the flywheel/clutch housing mounted as a pair?
Balanced is very important, be sure to rebalance our flywheel. I have some clients that want their flywheels resurfaced and rebalanced whenever they do a clutch job. You would be surprised how out of balance a flywheel and clutch cover is. right from the factory.
I wonder how small and light of a flywheel a machine like this will balance? What I mean is, there are premium compettition and collector's yoyos that, depending on material and style, tend to weigh between 45 grams to 70 grams (about 1.5 oz to 2.5 oz) with each dissembled half (which you'd balance independently) being . Much more than a toy now, I'm not sure most folks really balance on a machine so much as they try them out and chuck vibrating ones in a discount bin so sell as b-grade. There's be a lot fewer b-grades if the knew how to skim off a little material on one side etc. to balance the yoyo half. Depending on style they range from a flywheel shape to a deep-dish mini-bowl.
How much weight did you end up taking off of it?
One mandrel fits most, but have special mandrels for special flywheels. Of course, the best way to do a flywheel is with the crankshaft. I keep several cranks just for those occasions.
It really took it down to 8.5? what Subaru is this from? I know the stock WRX flywheel is between 22-25lbs and the STI is 18.9lbs and my EXEDY is 13.3.
Aha! Much like a brake lathe process followed by a wheel balance! I never thought it would translate so 'simply'. Also, we generally added weight to rims, not take material out, dont we ;)
how much weight did the flywheel lose? current weight? does it make a little difference or a lot? any comment from the owner of the subaru?
Sir,For 210kg, 700 dia flywheel rotating speed of 4000 rpm what is the vibration limit value for these system
Just curious, what does a balancer like that cost? Complete setup
Hi john, interestig vid. Did I notice delrin pads on the balancing machine where the shaft sits/rotates. Did you manufacture the balancing machine yourself?
Thanks
@fiatnutz Most older engines have rust on the flywheel and pully. Its usually an evenly dispersed layer of rust but i think it could upset the balance in time. And what would happen when one would remove the rust with a wirewheel?
Hi John, I had a question. After removing that material from the Flywheel and since its going on a performance engine,Wouldn't the flywheel be weakened by the material being removed.I would think it would be smart to Cryo or Heat treat the flywheel to make it stronger like the do with Ring & pinions for instance.Or would it be unnecessary to do that?
John, is this effectively the same method used to balance a damper? I didn't see a video up for doing that. Probably a little redundant but I'm curious. Do you drill into the side of a damper just like the flywheel?
Hola buenas.Como puedo consequir una máquina de echilibrar volantes? Y que precio?
@1971ojoalparche1971 Lighter flywheel lowers total weight of moving parts, making the car pick up and lose revs faster. Factory flywheels are heavier, because heavier flywheel can store more momentum, making engine run stable and providing good low-end torque.
@urbex2007 - The manufacturers do a lot of R&D on their cars before the ever see the light of day. You don't want to have an engine that is like a light switch with regards to power. As an enthusiast you can appreciate this fact, but having this type of power band in the snow, or for grandma to drive is not so good. Mfr's have to give everybody something so they can sell their cars. That's the fun part for you to see just how much additional power you can get out of their products.
how critical is it tht the flywhel is balanced? I turned a spare down on a lathe that isnt quite perfect, and im not sure any more lol. its gonna be going round to a rate of about 8kso id assume so, but im pretty sure it wasnt when it came off the donor car
could i ask a question? why are you using no emulsion or some kind of cooling when you are doing this on a lathe?
Hi John, do you have presentation on resurfacing and balancing a dual mass flywheel? I want to see how you guys done it including measures taken. Thanks
@fiatnutz and how long does it take for that balancer to "pay for itself"?
Cryo will increase some strength and make the flywheel run slightly cooler. Remember that manufacturers use a specific weight on their flywheels to balance the needs of good idle and road speed performance, they are not concerned with performance, Aluminum flywheels are horrible for the street because they are way too light, engine idle is eratic.
hey john what do u mean bye "blower motor"
What was the weight of the flywheel before and after balncing? How much lightening do you recomend for mid to high performance street V-6's with manual trans? Thanx.
what are the main reasons we need to balance the wheel? what will the static and dynamic unbalance do to the flywheel?
Technically, balanced is balanced at any rpm. Turbo's and things that go 200k~+ rpm structurally change as they spin that fast and need to be balanced at such high speeds - but in the realms of cams/cranks, the metal doesn't change at all to make any difference.
It's really down to how the balance is set up to work - technically you could make a balance work by just one rotation if it was sensitive enough; ergo anything from 1 to 10krpm is fine so long as the equipment is built for it.
@U3erpru7ser - faster wear on all the rubbing components in general. Why is there rust on the flywheel and pulley, anyway? You must be dealing with another engine and not the original - I'm only guessing here?!?!?!
is it true that balance the flywheel could activate the "check engine" light in the dashboard?
would you have a rough idea on how much this would cost on a smaller subaru flywheel?
great video! what does "5.0" at the left and "50" at the right mean? the
very nice job
Now I know I'm getting too old for this stuff..... I do not speak cyber or text speak, so thanks for helping me out guys!
@chimaera1855 - Have the flywheel resurfaced and then balanced with the clutch cover.
Hi there, I was wondering what the effect of rust on the flywheel and pully would be?
Are you set up to balance large flywheels (lister single cylinder 24"diameter)...?
I'm teaching an engines class at Golden West College right now - 2 nights a week. Take this calss a couple of times and you may be about ready to get your hands dirty.
My fiat flywheel is 4,845 kg's (10,681lbs) how much can I take off ??? :)
The flywheel wouldn't loose much strength because where the material is located in this case, it may loose some structural rigidity but not enough to matter unless your gonna be running alot of rpm's
how much does this cost to preform
hi i am changing my TVR chimaera 4 litres V8's clutch this week.was wondering about doing some work on my flywheel.....its use a rover V8 4 litres and a T5 BG i bought an HELIX racing clutch.any help....tks a lot..
John, good video. I'm trying not to be a prick. I don't do balancing as a profession, but the same question crossed my mind while watching the video; how does balanced at 700 rpm behave at 7000 rpms or more? Can a balanced spin at 750 reliably predict a balance spin at 7000 and above? From your previous comments on the poor balance of off the shelf Subaru flywheels and having my stock engine above 6000 a couple time over it's 200k life, I'm guessing a flywheel zeroed at 750 does fine @7000.
Even at 700 RPM, there's resonance/vibration and these machines certainly aren't analogous to it. In fact, they are specifically designed to detect it. Therefore, they will typically detect at 700RPM what humans believe manifests at several thousand RPM.
@RJDGGG86 carbide blade on a milling lathe like this doesn't need lubrication.
What means "TDC" in the display of machine?
By "blower motor" do you mean a naturally aspirated engine that someone has put a supercharger on or are you talking about a turbocharged motor? There are a lot of turbocharged Subaru engines out there.
Hey man, which can you afford?
I like it when you own people like this. It's fucking hilarious.
Can anyone tell me where can I buy a flywheel, thanks.
Will this process weaken the fly wheel
anyone who can link some info about how balancing macines work? only found 1 proper movie about it
@EwansClass - No lost finger here!
Yes.
Cast iron can be cut with out using coolant.
anyone know the diameter of this thing?
why no oil?
Technically, balanced is balanced at any rpm.
Realistically though, this is not the case as you can never reach a perfect balance. A 'tiny' imbalance at 1000rpm could be catastrophic at 10,000rpm as the forces on the supports/bearings created by the imbalance are not so small anymore, especially if the imbalance lowers the objects natural frequency/whirl speed to operating range. Violent things will happen!
I'm not sure what you mean about the metal structurally changes at very high rpm?
This questtion is probably asked alot but I want an answer to... What would the average price be to get a manual (5-speed) flywheel resurfaced and balanced?
@fredjahnert Oh jeesus...its called modification.Of course it won't dampen harmonics from the crank as well,but it will allow the engine to rev faster. you lose some you gain some
there is no reason a lathe should sound like that while cutting. Grab a carbide bit and get your speeds and feeds right.
Cobalt512 Its the hormonic resonance because he is grinding so far away from where the flywheel is mounted, the closer to the centre the deeper the sound will be. hahahaha i dont really know im just guessing
It sounds perfect, Iv cut big ass flywheels you need a forklift to load in the lathe.
That's a nice balancer, wish I had one.
Amazing
Some where beteen $100 and $150, depends on how long it takes - it could be even more.
well,i use coolants on every material, you get much better results.
not if you use ceramic cutting inserts.
@colin340 Roots-type blower, meaning Supercharger, just for clarification ;)
R.I.P. headphone users
@KeweKrypto 12 Meh. Got studio monitors and headphones equal to their price. Yeah, I prefer these headphons when I'm alone.
Lol fuck yeah bro
Its cast iron.
The guy is installing a Roote-type blower on the engine.
This does not improve the car. It can lead to oscillations at higher speeds which can break the shaft/decrease performance and lifespan. You are not a mechanical engineer, they designed it for a purpose.
a BLOWER???? u mean like the one u use in ur driveway??????
Just looking at Guy Garic picture he looks like he's a BLOWER just like his Mother...
cool deal
Looks like he used a large drill.
@fiatnutz HOLY SHITBALLS!!! really?!
Hope you consulted an engineer before you hacked all that metal off. It could explode like a handgrenade if not done correctly. Less mass also can cause warping. Now it needs explosion testing. Wind it up to 10,000 rpm and see if it self destructs.
dude it's not going to explode it might get a little hot
Dude...It's a Fucking Subaru... No way it could ever explode... Hell my grandmother had a Subaru...
And or will this process weaken its life
4 people have lost his fingers trying to balance the flywheel
@jr9950 - About $22K
fly wheel
RIP headphone users...
@terrorista990 Top Dead Center
Balance the flywheel, spoil the child.
I smell rice (:
damn that screamin hurt my ears
My ears bleed.
jkokkjkjk
stfu???????
that's a lot of rpm's with no shielding in place !