I don’t think it’s an “upgrade” over the Battlemaster. They don’t really have much in common, aside from their speed and boating some medium lasers. I prefer the weapons of the Cataphract since you can dakka away with your autocannons every turn, without having to worry about heat. But there’s no question the Battlemaster is the more iconic and stylish design, and more fun to field on the table. That’s not to say it doesn’t have problems. The Battlemaster’s PPC might as well be a paperweight once you close, since you can never afford the heat to fire it. So frankly I think the Cataphract wins in terms of firepower and actual power projection. And the Battlemaster would ordinarily have better staying power as an assault mech, except I always seem to lose it to ammo explosions. Battletech isn’t always about winning. Sometimes you just gotta lose with style, rather than win without. So I’ll stick with the Battlemaster.
Just wrapped up a merc campaign, and with the fluff that it's a mech that is a sorta FrakenMech, I used the Cataphract extensively, as the GM. Pro tip...run the variant with the ER PPC and LB/10-X. It sacrifices the Jump Jets for MASC, but that run of 8 hexes actually does keep Cataphract maneuverable for the firepower you get.
Cataphract is a sleeper unit. A unit you field when you want to make someone think they're up against an easy mark, because let's get real, it doesn't carry the threat level that something like a Warhammer or a Grasshopper does. You can surprise an opponent with the CTF-3L Cataphract, though. The MASC system coupled with the ER PPC and LB-10X is almost better than being able to carry Jump Jets. It has the speed to get in close and utilize its Medium Pulse Lasers, and the heat sinks to dish out 20 damage at range without having to worry about heat. Only concern there is ammo. But having the PPC gives it a lot more punch than the Ultra AC/5, and the MASC gives it enough speed to make up for the lower armor for a 70 tonner. So the Cataphract gets used regularly by me, and often to great effect.
In MW5 (And MWO) the rear lasers are moved to highish shoulder mounts on the front. With one of the old 3025 'Phracts I stuck an ERPPC in one of those slots, a normal large laser in the PPC's old spot and went gauss with the torso ballistic. Medlas in all the other energy slots. It was a serious demon.
I'll add to the others, the 2X is definitely the star early on. It is a beast in introtech games. Often able to bully others with it's durability, I tend to run it more like a Thunderbolt than a warhammer. As a line anchor to keep units from moving past it or leading a movement to contact. The heavy armor for it's size gives it quite a bit of durability. I don't miss the rear mounted weaponry as I tend to keep a bodyguard to keep it from getting flanked.
I like the catty, it's great in 3025, either flavor. I'm not a huge fan of xl engines, so I tend to just upgrade the original two variants. my only gripe is you went on for a large portion of the vid talking about just the rear facing weapons on mechs...
The Battlemaster is designed to handle anything that comes for it. It's not designed to win exchanges on the front. as shes designed with mainly energy she can operate for extended periods when line mechs rotate for supplies. And fend off vehicles or infantry, and retire before an ammo explosion on the left side. If your commander is facing off 2 or 3 to one. Your going to have a bad day. The battlemaster puts pieces inbetween it and the enemy. The cataphract is a main Battle tank(mech)designed to dominate said pieces. Someone breaking through to your commander isn't likely to take out their target if that target is a battlemaster. The cataphract is the unit opening that hole for someone to have a chance at breaking through. I never liked the battlemaster for its single PPC. I liked the look and knowing it means your the one running the show.
A mechwarrior walks into a mech supply yard and asks "can I get a heat sink for a Cataphract"? The clerk at the counter replies "sounds like a good trade to me". ...
A Mech born out of desperation by House Liao that they have to start welding separate 'Mech parts into one (think of the Germans in late war WW2). I'm surprised you jumped straight into the frankly terrible 3050 "upgraded" 3D version instead of the original 1X. That XL engine on a 70-ton chassis with only slightly more armor than a Warhammer is not great. Lose a side torso and your 'Mech is destroyed, gain a Ultra gun that jams permanently on a bad roll and you barely gain any good armament boost out of it besides Jump Jets. IMO, the Succession Wars era 2X is the better version for a similar BV, and if not, just go straight for the Stealth ER PPC+Gauss 4L.
I prefer the capellan version with the ER PPC, LB10x and MASC. It has a higher damage output, can manage it's heat well enough and I can say from personal experience it can hold its own against any heavy or light assault Mech.
I like to arm my mechs with 1 MLAS, 1 PPC and 4 LRM5, jump jets. I found that delivers moderate heat and a big punch with decent firing rate. Jets allow freedom.
@@AnimeSunglasses You have punch per heat per C-bill per Ton. MLAS, PPC and LRM5 optimizes that. You keep distance and hit. Fill any excess crits/tons with jets and heat sinks. Jets are good for escaping when needed. First put MLAS, then LRM5 then PPC. In that order to maximize effectiveness. Variety is cool for builders. But for limited C-bills that is the way to go.
I'm not sure why you keep mentioning the Battlemaster. The Cataphract competes (very effectively) with the Warhammer... The low tech Cataphract 1X and 2X are both better that the 3D. The 3D's jump jets are welcome but otherwise it squanders all the weight savings of an XL engine on replacing the 1X's PPC with an Ultra-5. Thanks, but no thanks. The Cataphract 2X is the real gem of the series. It dispenses with the rear mounted weapons entirely, focuses on medium and short ranged combat and mounts very heavy armour for the era.
I don't know how Davion wins wars when they make mechs like the CTF-3D. Two ACs with incompatible ammunition, no heavy energy weapons, all on a mech with single heatsinks but an XL engine? That's all sorts of yikes from me. I'd be kinder to a dual LB-10X loadout with some energy weapons to keep heatsinks busy. What the CTF-2X gets right is just being a big Enforcer. Large Laser and AC/10 share the same range and fire comfortably together with just a couple extra heatsinks over the standard 10, as opposed to all the iconic paired-PPC mechs that can't actually sustain their primary salvo, or the Thunderbolt where the LRM and LL don't overlap for range. People make fun of the BNC-3E Banshee, but here's the thing: the 15 points it is capable of dealing at 6 hexes is barely off of what the Cataphract can do, or the Stalker's pair of LL, or what the Marauder has heatsinks to handle... actually on par with most Succession Wars mechs. It's got no short range weaponry installed, but the melee capabilities can easily make up for that. As for rear-facing weaponry, I think the strongest use case is attacking the backs of other mechs. You have two formations closing in, your point guard walks *past* the leading enemy unit and engages its rear armor with rear-facing lasers while still facing enemies capable of attacking with its strong armor.
The Cataphract has a lot of very different variants - some are quite good and some are horrible. I like the 2X, 3L and 4L in their timelines. The 1X and 3D are quite disapointing - weak armor protection and insufficient close-range punch. Can´t really comment on the jihad / dark age variants as I don´t play that timeline at all.
To me, the cataphract was always a capellan wannabe-marauder but not as good as the marauder. It's not the worst design but there're so many better mechs among 70 tons. As a merc, just take an Orion or Warhammer. As a capellan.... well... who wants to play as that faction? I would rather go canopus or taurian than capellan.
@@HarperStl Sorry, I think Iwas thinking of a different mech at the time and got my names mixed up. Maybe the K2 variant? It was such a long time ago, I forgot what I was talking about at the time. Or maybe it was the Marauder? Since it's usually a PPC or laser mech hybridized with a smaller scale AC?
Love the battletech series, keep them comming!
I don’t think it’s an “upgrade” over the Battlemaster. They don’t really have much in common, aside from their speed and boating some medium lasers. I prefer the weapons of the Cataphract since you can dakka away with your autocannons every turn, without having to worry about heat. But there’s no question the Battlemaster is the more iconic and stylish design, and more fun to field on the table. That’s not to say it doesn’t have problems. The Battlemaster’s PPC might as well be a paperweight once you close, since you can never afford the heat to fire it. So frankly I think the Cataphract wins in terms of firepower and actual power projection. And the Battlemaster would ordinarily have better staying power as an assault mech, except I always seem to lose it to ammo explosions.
Battletech isn’t always about winning. Sometimes you just gotta lose with style, rather than win without. So I’ll stick with the Battlemaster.
Just wrapped up a merc campaign, and with the fluff that it's a mech that is a sorta FrakenMech, I used the Cataphract extensively, as the GM. Pro tip...run the variant with the ER PPC and LB/10-X. It sacrifices the Jump Jets for MASC, but that run of 8 hexes actually does keep Cataphract maneuverable for the firepower you get.
Cataphract is a sleeper unit. A unit you field when you want to make someone think they're up against an easy mark, because let's get real, it doesn't carry the threat level that something like a Warhammer or a Grasshopper does. You can surprise an opponent with the CTF-3L Cataphract, though. The MASC system coupled with the ER PPC and LB-10X is almost better than being able to carry Jump Jets. It has the speed to get in close and utilize its Medium Pulse Lasers, and the heat sinks to dish out 20 damage at range without having to worry about heat. Only concern there is ammo. But having the PPC gives it a lot more punch than the Ultra AC/5, and the MASC gives it enough speed to make up for the lower armor for a 70 tonner. So the Cataphract gets used regularly by me, and often to great effect.
In MW5 (And MWO) the rear lasers are moved to highish shoulder mounts on the front. With one of the old 3025 'Phracts I stuck an ERPPC in one of those slots, a normal large laser in the PPC's old spot and went gauss with the torso ballistic. Medlas in all the other energy slots. It was a serious demon.
The Cataphract is a very dependable 'Mech. I use it a fair bit, not just in my Liao units, but also in my merc group. I own three.
Rich man's Vindicator
I'll add to the others, the 2X is definitely the star early on. It is a beast in introtech games. Often able to bully others with it's durability, I tend to run it more like a Thunderbolt than a warhammer. As a line anchor to keep units from moving past it or leading a movement to contact. The heavy armor for it's size gives it quite a bit of durability. I don't miss the rear mounted weaponry as I tend to keep a bodyguard to keep it from getting flanked.
I like the catty, it's great in 3025, either flavor. I'm not a huge fan of xl engines, so I tend to just upgrade the original two variants. my only gripe is you went on for a large portion of the vid talking about just the rear facing weapons on mechs...
The Battlemaster is designed to handle anything that comes for it. It's not designed to win exchanges on the front. as shes designed with mainly energy she can operate for extended periods when line mechs rotate for supplies. And fend off vehicles or infantry, and retire before an ammo explosion on the left side.
If your commander is facing off 2 or 3 to one. Your going to have a bad day.
The battlemaster puts pieces inbetween it and the enemy. The cataphract is a main Battle tank(mech)designed to dominate said pieces. Someone breaking through to your commander isn't likely to take out their target if that target is a battlemaster.
The cataphract is the unit opening that hole for someone to have a chance at breaking through.
I never liked the battlemaster for its single PPC. I liked the look and knowing it means your the one running the show.
A mechwarrior walks into a mech supply yard and asks "can I get a heat sink for a Cataphract"?
The clerk at the counter replies "sounds like a good trade to me". ...
A Mech born out of desperation by House Liao that they have to start welding separate 'Mech parts into one (think of the Germans in late war WW2). I'm surprised you jumped straight into the frankly terrible 3050 "upgraded" 3D version instead of the original 1X. That XL engine on a 70-ton chassis with only slightly more armor than a Warhammer is not great. Lose a side torso and your 'Mech is destroyed, gain a Ultra gun that jams permanently on a bad roll and you barely gain any good armament boost out of it besides Jump Jets.
IMO, the Succession Wars era 2X is the better version for a similar BV, and if not, just go straight for the Stealth ER PPC+Gauss 4L.
I prefer the capellan version with the ER PPC, LB10x and MASC. It has a higher damage output, can manage it's heat well enough and I can say from personal experience it can hold its own against any heavy or light assault Mech.
How are the two 'Mechs even related in anyone's mind? One does not equal the other.
I like to arm my mechs with 1 MLAS, 1 PPC and 4 LRM5, jump jets. I found that delivers moderate heat and a big punch with decent firing rate. Jets allow freedom.
Which mechs? Cataphract, or any and all you can mount that on?
@@AnimeSunglasses All. It helps to have a reduced standard inventory to reduce costs amd inventory levels.
@@aquarius5719 true that. Though I haven't applied it that strictly yet, it sure helps to limit your ammunition types.
@@AnimeSunglasses You have punch per heat per C-bill per Ton. MLAS, PPC and LRM5 optimizes that. You keep distance and hit. Fill any excess crits/tons with jets and heat sinks. Jets are good for escaping when needed.
First put MLAS, then LRM5 then PPC. In that order to maximize effectiveness. Variety is cool for builders. But for limited C-bills that is the way to go.
I'm not sure why you keep mentioning the Battlemaster. The Cataphract competes (very effectively) with the Warhammer...
The low tech Cataphract 1X and 2X are both better that the 3D. The 3D's jump jets are welcome but otherwise it squanders all the weight savings of an XL engine on replacing the 1X's PPC with an Ultra-5. Thanks, but no thanks.
The Cataphract 2X is the real gem of the series. It dispenses with the rear mounted weapons entirely, focuses on medium and short ranged combat and mounts very heavy armour for the era.
I don't know how Davion wins wars when they make mechs like the CTF-3D. Two ACs with incompatible ammunition, no heavy energy weapons, all on a mech with single heatsinks but an XL engine? That's all sorts of yikes from me. I'd be kinder to a dual LB-10X loadout with some energy weapons to keep heatsinks busy.
What the CTF-2X gets right is just being a big Enforcer. Large Laser and AC/10 share the same range and fire comfortably together with just a couple extra heatsinks over the standard 10, as opposed to all the iconic paired-PPC mechs that can't actually sustain their primary salvo, or the Thunderbolt where the LRM and LL don't overlap for range.
People make fun of the BNC-3E Banshee, but here's the thing: the 15 points it is capable of dealing at 6 hexes is barely off of what the Cataphract can do, or the Stalker's pair of LL, or what the Marauder has heatsinks to handle... actually on par with most Succession Wars mechs. It's got no short range weaponry installed, but the melee capabilities can easily make up for that.
As for rear-facing weaponry, I think the strongest use case is attacking the backs of other mechs. You have two formations closing in, your point guard walks *past* the leading enemy unit and engages its rear armor with rear-facing lasers while still facing enemies capable of attacking with its strong armor.
I’m wanting to use it cuz I’m a CCAF kinda guy
I'd like to run a lance with one cata 2 spider and 1 venom
I also thought it might be a body guard for my yeomen
The Cataphract has a lot of very different variants - some are quite good and some are horrible.
I like the 2X, 3L and 4L in their timelines.
The 1X and 3D are quite disapointing - weak armor protection and insufficient close-range punch.
Can´t really comment on the jihad / dark age variants as I don´t play that timeline at all.
To me, the cataphract was always a capellan wannabe-marauder but not as good as the marauder. It's not the worst design but there're so many better mechs among 70 tons. As a merc, just take an Orion or Warhammer. As a capellan.... well... who wants to play as that faction? I would rather go canopus or taurian than capellan.
Ah, the Cataphract. The laser Catapult.
Not...really?
Most variants are more centered around the ballistic armament- the lasers are really there for backup.
@@HarperStl Sorry, I think Iwas thinking of a different mech at the time and got my names mixed up. Maybe the K2 variant? It was such a long time ago, I forgot what I was talking about at the time. Or maybe it was the Marauder? Since it's usually a PPC or laser mech hybridized with a smaller scale AC?