As a shop mechanic and a lover of good looking bikes, I think every bike rolling forward should utilize a similar cable setup to this bike. It's really a fantastic solution.
If there is any one bike company that is going to really shake up the industry, it'll probably be these guys. I was impressed when I rode the smash and saw the shop, but the bike didn't quite fit me. This new setup looks freaking amazing and is going to change the way I look at any new bike coming out in the future. No more getting stuck between sizes!
You guys are pretty much supporting a non consumer supported market when T 1000 carbon racing frames are about 6 to 800 bucks. This Trump riding scam destroyed the market and coincided with the cheap credit market. This is a step in the right direction but the audacity of making believe young people had 10 grand to spend on a bike is shameful. It never helped the economy until this moment because the source was always China.
I moved to Denver last year and started seeing these a lot it’s cool to know it’s a small upcoming brand that’s innovative and aren’t trying to break your bank! Don’t have a mountain bike at the moment but will definitely look into this to go shred the trails
@@rmack611 nice, I've got the helm on my 29er hard tail and love the adjustability. I was set on getting a transition smuggler, but we also have several bike parks nearby so to be able to run a 130/120 setup for trails and backcountry epic rides to a 160/155 setup with a much smaller investment than a second bike is rather appealing.
Im so happy and proud that a bike with this much innovation, practicality and technology is coming from America!!! On top of everything the bike offers (witch is WAY more than a standard bike) There doing it for an amazing price. I really hope this company takes off!!
Wow this could be a game changer! As an engineer I am very interested in this bike, and the company! Well done GG! The big guys must be shaking in their boots right now!
Probably not as it will be tough and very costly for GG to scale to levels like the big guys. Because of this change for GG, there may be delays getting a frame if all of a sudden they start getting massive orders. Seems akin to what YT is dealing with. But I'd much rather have a new GG The Smash than a YT bike.
@@RedRocket204 I thought they said it takes way less time to build a frame, plus they dont have the 4-6 week supply chain lead time from Asia. I'm gonna poke around a bit and see what I can find out. Manufacturing is my area of expertise, that's why im geeking out so much lol.
@Guerrilla Gravity I see you in short time selling this kind of manufacture process to any other company. I think you would sell a lot of bikes. Plz send one to BKXC to see the thing in action!
Jose Moreno Porras bkxc and sts both demoed them. Brian said the bike is very responsive and fun. Maybe next year i will upgrade my frame and purchase one
KONA Stinky. I remember those. I haven't been on a bike in over 15 years and my Sugar 3+ is still sitting in an attic. I am very interested in these bikes since it seems that you get more value from direct companies. But carbon fiber I hear is a way different animal than aluminum frames. Stiffer and less forgiving and that is not what I want. I like a more plush ride since I am not gifted to be super technical. I don't like my back end dancing all over the place even if it is for a speed advantage.
@@glennnichols4220 that will largely be down to suspension setup. In general, a carbon frame won't be "harsher." That said, there's also lots of good stuff out there in aluminum these days, like Knolly, Fezzari, and the Ibis Ripmo AF. You pay a couple pounds in weight penalty over carbon, but even then you can get weight down with good components. The GG's carbon is unique though, being made in Colorado with their proprietary layup and curing process.
This is actually really badass. Finally some ingenuity in the market that helps the wallet while bringing quality up. It's a bummer that my Rallon just showed up on my doorstep a few days ago before I even knew about these dudes.... But there's always room for 1 more bike ;). Modularity combined with carbon, combined with a good price point and topped off with a good geometry. Bravo to them. Highly impressed.
Who doesn’t love riding something with a versatile rear end? 😉 All kidding aside, the ability to configure different amounts of travel in the back is a really neat concept and keeps costs down.
Great job GG. and Pinkbike for taking time to really get a clear description of the bike out to the people who want this type of knowledge. As a consumer looking for the next bike this really is something high on my radar now. Bang for the buck is great. Need an XC bike for local, yup. Need the fun bike for Pisgah, WIndrock, Showshoe...can do that too with some minor work. Makes the new GG frame the top of my list, based on a test ride hopefully soon (CHARLOTTE AREA guys bring GG to us and there will be some who try and buy!). Interested in warranty info of course but this is awesome. Small business coming out strong in a big business sport!
I think the bigger question is when they're going to build stronger lighter carbon rims using this technique and what would happen if they used graphene epoxy.
Here is what I love about this company. They are solving a problem that we as cyclists don't think about all that often, which is bike manufacturing and the conditions there in. Though many people manufacture in asia and pay their workers an appropriate wage, there are plenty who take advantage of their workers, and poor labor protection laws in China or Taiwan . A USA built bike makes it so that no guilt needs to be felt when riding. You don't have to worry about whether or not you own something that is a product of basic slavery. (this concept also applies to bikes manufactured in canada, or really anywhere with good labor laws.). But Guerrilla isn't just surviving on the whole foods kind of ethical appeal to consumers. They are coupling it with actual useful innovation, and creating a good product. I am interested to see how people like the bikes they make from here on out, as i have heard mixed things concerning the performance of previous bikes on the trail. It is just refreshing to see a company check the boxes of good ethical practice for their employees, good performance, innovation that pushes an industry forward, and keeping the price tag relatively low. I hope we see more like this from Guerrilla Gravity!
When I'm in the market for a new bike it's gonna be a Smash. I wonder how long it will be before other manufacturers bring production back to the US.... would be awesome.
Personally, the fact that it’s usa made isn’t a huge deal to me, interesting bike though with a great amount of options. Can’t deny it’s another big player to that part of the market, and priced fairly too.
a few very good and innovative solutions for this bike and a lot of versatility, but i think the deal-breaker will be how good it does one thing (ex. climb, or descend, etc.) rather than be "decent" at everything. if after switching chainstays, headset angle etc. it's just average on the trail, they will have to rethink some stuff
Very interested as a rider of technical trails and engineer, is the carbon "just" regular or perhaps a composite (Carbon Fibre Reinforced Plastics comes to mind)?
Damn we are lucky to have all these awesome bikes. I'm all about tailoring your bike for your own riding and it's great that they are making everything avalivle right out of the gate
Bold and excellent move from these guys. All the big boys are capable of designing front triangles with different travel rear ends that would work but they would sell less full models so I guess the incentive isn’t there possibly until now. I hope these guys succeed and apply pressure onto the big boys to look to design move adjustable / interchangeable bikes like these. Looking forward to seeing more on the trail reviews because I am very, VERY INTERESTED 🤘🏻
Love guerilla gravity. But you said they're going full carbon. Are they ditching their steel hardtail? That thing is an absolute monster of a bike so I really hope they don't!
Very cool. The AL rear is a little disappointing but they'll probably come along with a full carbon bike soon enough. Love that it's USA manufactured at a competitive price. And love the idea of making a bike hacker's dream. Flip chips and anglesets have been around a while, but having all of that on one bike that can also run different rear triangle is pretty damn cool.
Anyone have feedback on the water bottle mount up high and forward like that? A full bottle is nearly a kilo, so in that position I would imagine you can feel it vs. down near bottom bracket.
Super exciting. See, we don't need new bb-standards or axel widths, THIS is true innovation, I'll be eyeing this as my possible future bike/frame. The carbon technology sounds a bit like what Aston Martin is doing with their CNC'ed layered carbon for their Valkyrie project hypercar? - Anyways, excited to see Guerilla Gravity coming into the mix with bigger manufactures now, they seem like good people.
I would have loved a less expensive aluminum version, although the carbon version is probably less expensive to make for them if they can have a machine do it with much less labor hrs in each frame
Prices start at 3795 now, for quite a decent build. I've been doing a lot of comparisons lately with stuff in the mid-3 to mid-4 range, and with GG giving you the ability to swap pretty much any part in the build, I haven't found a better build for that price anywhere else.
James Downey that’s rough . So if you buy a bike there most bikes I’m guessing would be shipped from Taiwan or China . Or am I wrong about that. Like if you get a Specialized Stumpjumper. Would that get shipped to your LBS in Australia from the States or Taiwan . Tariffs suck . I’ve been to Australia twelve times. Nice country and great people.
@@obi-wankenobi9871 Reading is your best friend. I'm not saying GG's claim is 100% accurate, but this is the claim direct from GG: "Compared to the leading types of traditional carbon fiber material, Revved’s material is over 300% more impact resistant, yet matches the strength and stiffness of the traditional material by sharing its continuous-fiber composition. It is part of a new family of materials at the leading edge of aerospace manufacturing. These materials are quickly gaining adoption for use in high-profile projects, most notably within a significant portion of the structural components of Boeing’s new 787."
@@RedRocket204 And it still sounds like massive bullshit. "Industrial" and "Aerospace" -grade are words that are thrown around so much, they dont mean anything anymore, especially if you have no data to back it up, but just make a claim and benchmark it against "a typical comparable product". What does 300% higher impact ressistance even mean? Impact ressistance is not a metric, its like saying 300% more delicious food. I would like to see the products they use as a comparison and the process that shows the 300% higher impact ressistance.
@@obi-wankenobi9871 Agree that terms are just thrown around these days, many time without supporting data to back up claims. Yes, GG is making the claim so i'd be nice to see data to support the claim. Your comment is also just a claim without supporting data however, the onus is on GG to support their claim of 300% more impact resistant. The item to remember though is that carbon fiber technology is advancing, so there is a possibility GG's claim could be accurate and not just snubbed-off as massive bullshit. No proof either way as it stands.
@@RedRocket204 In this case thats not how it works. If you make a claim you have to back it up. If someone like me says its probably untrue, because it sounds too good to be true, i am not the one that needs to prove something, GG are the ones to prove that their claims are true, simply because their claims are so bold.
Wow. I'm so excited for this. Proud of the GG team for innovating. Cant wait to ride a big ol carbon smash!!
As a shop mechanic and a lover of good looking bikes, I think every bike rolling forward should utilize a similar cable setup to this bike. It's really a fantastic solution.
bump
Make American bikes again
If there is any one bike company that is going to really shake up the industry, it'll probably be these guys. I was impressed when I rode the smash and saw the shop, but the bike didn't quite fit me. This new setup looks freaking amazing and is going to change the way I look at any new bike coming out in the future. No more getting stuck between sizes!
Mmmmm... The OPTIONS!!!🤘🏼
@@TheCrashingDad the bike nerd in me is going crazy right now
You guys are pretty much supporting a non consumer supported market when T 1000 carbon racing frames are about 6 to 800 bucks. This Trump riding scam destroyed the market and coincided with the cheap credit market. This is a step in the right direction but the audacity of making believe young people had 10 grand to spend on a bike is shameful. It never helped the economy until this moment because the source was always China.
Yay bikes 🤷♂️
Is the epoxy they're using called Guerilla Glue?
No, that is the strain they are using.
Interesting stuff, can't wait to see some more in-depth field testing.
I'm curious to say the least
I moved to Denver last year and started seeing these a lot it’s cool to know it’s a small upcoming brand that’s innovative and aren’t trying to break your bank! Don’t have a mountain bike at the moment but will definitely look into this to go shred the trails
Very cool, would love to try one! The price is right and made in the USA!
Where is the review ?? I know you have one on the Trail Pistol but I was looking forward to the Smash review.
With a Cane Creek Helm Fork and it's easily adjustable travel from 130 to 160, this bike is extremely versatile.
Vega Hunter they’re offering the helm now too! I’m gonna have to way until next year but I’m already excited!
@@rmack611 nice, I've got the helm on my 29er hard tail and love the adjustability. I was set on getting a transition smuggler, but we also have several bike parks nearby so to be able to run a 130/120 setup for trails and backcountry epic rides to a 160/155 setup with a much smaller investment than a second bike is rather appealing.
Nice work on the video! Stoked to see it finally released! Thanks for the photo cred. Great to work and ride with you guys.
I really hope this is the future of most companies!
Im so happy and proud that a bike with this much innovation, practicality and technology is coming from America!!!
On top of everything the bike offers (witch is WAY more than a standard bike) There doing it for an amazing price. I really hope this company takes off!!
I'm glad that USA produce this masterpiece. Greetings from Sweden.
2:10 "frame maker 3000" lmao, love it!
Wow this could be a game changer! As an engineer I am very interested in this bike, and the company! Well done GG! The big guys must be shaking in their boots right now!
Probably not as it will be tough and very costly for GG to scale to levels like the big guys. Because of this change for GG, there may be delays getting a frame if all of a sudden they start getting massive orders. Seems akin to what YT is dealing with. But I'd much rather have a new GG The Smash than a YT bike.
@@RedRocket204 I thought they said it takes way less time to build a frame, plus they dont have the 4-6 week supply chain lead time from Asia. I'm gonna poke around a bit and see what I can find out. Manufacturing is my area of expertise, that's why im geeking out so much lol.
Guerrilla Gravity JIT FOR THE WIN!
@Guerrilla Gravity I see you in short time selling this kind of manufacture process to any other company. I think you would sell a lot of bikes. Plz send one to BKXC to see the thing in action!
Jose Moreno Porras bkxc and sts both demoed them. Brian said the bike is very responsive and fun. Maybe next year i will upgrade my frame and purchase one
So when's the review coming out?
good to see a USA made bike hope that all you Americans will support that company
So freaking proud of GG and Colorado! Wow they just changed the game if this bike delivers.
Will be buying one! These are amazing bikes and some how guerrilla gravity made their bikes even better.
Wow. Never knew there were that many options possible. Very interesting.
I too want to see the longer-term review. I'm still riding an '06 Stinky, and this GG is a top contender for my first modern MTB.
KONA Stinky. I remember those. I haven't been on a bike in over 15 years and my Sugar 3+ is still sitting in an attic. I am very interested in these bikes since it seems that you get more value from direct companies. But carbon fiber I hear is a way different animal than aluminum frames. Stiffer and less forgiving and that is not what I want. I like a more plush ride since I am not gifted to be super technical. I don't like my back end dancing all over the place even if it is for a speed advantage.
@@glennnichols4220 that will largely be down to suspension setup. In general, a carbon frame won't be "harsher." That said, there's also lots of good stuff out there in aluminum these days, like Knolly, Fezzari, and the Ibis Ripmo AF. You pay a couple pounds in weight penalty over carbon, but even then you can get weight down with good components. The GG's carbon is unique though, being made in Colorado with their proprietary layup and curing process.
@@JessHines I'm on my way now to test out a GG tomorrow. I'll let ya know how it is.
@@glennnichols4220 sweet! I so wish I lived in Denver to be able to do that!
This is actually really badass. Finally some ingenuity in the market that helps the wallet while bringing quality up. It's a bummer that my Rallon just showed up on my doorstep a few days ago before I even knew about these dudes.... But there's always room for 1 more bike ;).
Modularity combined with carbon, combined with a good price point and topped off with a good geometry. Bravo to them. Highly impressed.
What an exciting bike. Love the cable routing, bottle and strap mount, and the innovation that has gone into making a cheap(er) carbon frame.
I can honestly say if I were in the market, this would be top of the list!
Who doesn’t love riding something with a versatile rear end? 😉 All kidding aside, the ability to configure different amounts of travel in the back is a really neat concept and keeps costs down.
All the ideas of behind the bike are awesome in my opinion….hopefully we´re going to see more companies going this route
The pinkbike boys checking out spider mountain ? Can’t wait to shred and not have to ride back 🤘🏻
DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stoke is stoked!!!! SOLD
This is why I love watching pinkbike.
Great job GG. and Pinkbike for taking time to really get a clear description of the bike out to the people who want this type of knowledge. As a consumer looking for the next bike this really is something high on my radar now. Bang for the buck is great. Need an XC bike for local, yup. Need the fun bike for Pisgah, WIndrock, Showshoe...can do that too with some minor work. Makes the new GG frame the top of my list, based on a test ride hopefully soon (CHARLOTTE AREA guys bring GG to us and there will be some who try and buy!). Interested in warranty info of course but this is awesome. Small business coming out strong in a big business sport!
great to see this design innovation, if they can get the price to 999 in a few years time this could be huge
So @pinkbike - are we getting a review on the Smash?
I think the bigger question is when they're going to build stronger lighter carbon rims using this technique and what would happen if they used graphene epoxy.
RoboticusMusic "CFRP" would be my abbreviation to keep an eye on : aimt.unob.cz/articles/18_01/1214.pdf
Now that's a carbon bike i could save up and buy.🤟
Here is what I love about this company. They are solving a problem that we as cyclists don't think about all that often, which is bike manufacturing and the conditions there in. Though many people manufacture in asia and pay their workers an appropriate wage, there are plenty who take advantage of their workers, and poor labor protection laws in China or Taiwan . A USA built bike makes it so that no guilt needs to be felt when riding. You don't have to worry about whether or not you own something that is a product of basic slavery. (this concept also applies to bikes manufactured in canada, or really anywhere with good labor laws.). But Guerrilla isn't just surviving on the whole foods kind of ethical appeal to consumers. They are coupling it with actual useful innovation, and creating a good product. I am interested to see how people like the bikes they make from here on out, as i have heard mixed things concerning the performance of previous bikes on the trail. It is just refreshing to see a company check the boxes of good ethical practice for their employees, good performance, innovation that pushes an industry forward, and keeping the price tag relatively low. I hope we see more like this from Guerrilla Gravity!
Wow. How do they keep innovating. Everything you mentioned is awesome!!
I'm just glad they said the material is the same as what Boeing is using on a 787 vs 737 xD
I loved!!! Where can I buy?
Thank you very much for the video
my next bike
Where was this video filmed? Looks like a gorgeous view with a lake close to some decent riding.
Sweeeeet, now we can wait even longer after ordering
Pretty impressive. I had no idea that Texas had mountains. When did they get them installed?
Doesn't seem like any longer term Smash review came out? (maybe I'm missing it, but I only see the first ride)
When I'm in the market for a new bike it's gonna be a Smash. I wonder how long it will be before other manufacturers bring production back to the US.... would be awesome.
useful innovations are always welcome, good job!
Personally, the fact that it’s usa made isn’t a huge deal to me, interesting bike though with a great amount of options. Can’t deny it’s another big player to that part of the market, and priced fairly too.
a few very good and innovative solutions for this bike and a lot of versatility, but i think the deal-breaker will be how good it does one thing (ex. climb, or descend, etc.) rather than be "decent" at everything. if after switching chainstays, headset angle etc. it's just average on the trail, they will have to rethink some stuff
Very interested as a rider of technical trails and engineer, is the carbon "just" regular or perhaps a composite (Carbon Fibre Reinforced Plastics comes to mind)?
Damn we are lucky to have all these awesome bikes. I'm all about tailoring your bike for your own riding and it's great that they are making everything avalivle right out of the gate
Didn't see this coming ... Wow, good job gg!
Awesome bikes super cool to see there made in America🇺🇸 and I can’t wait to see where this company goes in the future
Look's Interesting.....Are they available to ship to the UK....!! I'm after a new bike at a decent price....!!
Can’t wait to see other companies do the same to make it more affordable!
Bold and excellent move from these guys. All the big boys are capable of designing front triangles with different travel rear ends that would work but they would sell less full models so I guess the incentive isn’t there possibly until now. I hope these guys succeed and apply pressure onto the big boys to look to design move adjustable / interchangeable bikes like these. Looking forward to seeing more on the trail reviews because I am very, VERY INTERESTED 🤘🏻
looks like a nice bike
Love guerilla gravity. But you said they're going full carbon. Are they ditching their steel hardtail? That thing is an absolute monster of a bike so I really hope they don't!
So 2019 smash has almost identical geo numbers to 2023 Santa Cruz hightower 3. Way to go GG. 4 years ahead.
Love that routing great idea the bike looks outstanding 🤟🏻🥇
Very cool. The AL rear is a little disappointing but they'll probably come along with a full carbon bike soon enough. Love that it's USA manufactured at a competitive price. And love the idea of making a bike hacker's dream. Flip chips and anglesets have been around a while, but having all of that on one bike that can also run different rear triangle is pretty damn cool.
Holy fuck this bike is changing the game....
Do they have the lift running yet
Anyone have feedback on the water bottle mount up high and forward like that? A full bottle is nearly a kilo, so in that position I would imagine you can feel it vs. down near bottom bracket.
Sick sick sick. I hope I can get my hands on one of these bad boys. USA!
That bike looks sick
Is it 300% heavier than a typical carbon frame? Whats the weight?
THIS. IS. CRAZY.
I’m assuming “Crush” mode would be ideal for flow trails and maybe give a hardtail like feel...Not sure why these bikes are not more popular
I have to say from the beginning I wasn't very interested but by the end I am as curious about this bike as I am about the Commencal clash.
Super exciting. See, we don't need new bb-standards or axel widths, THIS is true innovation, I'll be eyeing this as my possible future bike/frame. The carbon technology sounds a bit like what Aston Martin is doing with their CNC'ed layered carbon for their Valkyrie project hypercar?
- Anyways, excited to see Guerilla Gravity coming into the mix with bigger manufactures now, they seem like good people.
Got a link for where to buy the bike?
who doesn't like a versatile rear end.
I bought a 2018 Yeti SB5 that I love, but damn... I am intrigued!
I'll take it off your hands and free you up to need a bike. I'm a giver lol
Awesome job GG!
cant find it for that price on the site
Nicely done GG! :)
What's the fork offset? How does it handle?
Tech nerd's dream bike to tinker with. Cool.
I want to have one where can I buy it?
I would have loved a less expensive aluminum version, although the carbon version is probably less expensive to make for them if they can have a machine do it with much less labor hrs in each frame
@3:13 how is that bike standing on its own. what am i missing?
Magic
Interesting frame. Looking forward for the review. Hopefully not sponsored and non bias review.
Pretty nice looking bike, good price, full carbon. I need to try one.
Not full just front triangle
Nice to see another U.S company besides fezzari that looks to shake the industry up a little bit
Frame only prices, please be aware. Adding components takes it right up there in price. That is a lot of cash total for a bike of any kind.
Prices start at 3795 now, for quite a decent build. I've been doing a lot of comparisons lately with stuff in the mid-3 to mid-4 range, and with GG giving you the ability to swap pretty much any part in the build, I haven't found a better build for that price anywhere else.
finally a brand wich is doing it right!
Is it wrong to say I like a versatile rear end ? I’m mean this strictly regarding the bike 😊
WOW I like everything I heard about this bike
looks really nice!!!!!
Depche mode??? Just kidding. This is fantastic!
Awesome!
Efin A and revolutionary!
'Merica baby!!!
This bike looks awesome, wonder if they’ll come to Australia?
James Downey if you ordered it directly from them would there be some crazy import fee besides the shipping cost?
If you do it personally you get screwed. I ordered a 3k nukeproof mega and paid 550 bucks in duties
James Downey that’s rough . So if you buy a bike there most bikes I’m guessing would be shipped from Taiwan or China . Or am I wrong about that. Like if you get a Specialized Stumpjumper. Would that get shipped to your LBS in Australia from the States or Taiwan . Tariffs suck . I’ve been to Australia twelve times. Nice country and great people.
this is my new dream bike 👌👌👌♥♥♥
This is awesome. I’m beyond excited. This is like the bike riders version of the SR-71. They made a machine to make the product.
Damn, I'd buy one
300% stronger!! That's no marginal gain.
And it sounds like massive bullshit.
@@obi-wankenobi9871 Reading is your best friend. I'm not saying GG's claim is 100% accurate, but this is the claim direct from GG: "Compared to the leading types of traditional carbon fiber material, Revved’s material is over 300% more impact resistant, yet matches the strength and stiffness of the traditional material by sharing its continuous-fiber composition. It is part of a new family of materials at the leading edge of aerospace manufacturing. These materials are quickly gaining adoption for use in high-profile projects, most notably within a significant portion of the structural components of Boeing’s new 787."
@@RedRocket204 And it still sounds like massive bullshit. "Industrial" and "Aerospace" -grade are words that are thrown around so much, they dont mean anything anymore, especially if you have no data to back it up, but just make a claim and benchmark it against "a typical comparable product". What does 300% higher impact ressistance even mean? Impact ressistance is not a metric, its like saying 300% more delicious food. I would like to see the products they use as a comparison and the process that shows the 300% higher impact ressistance.
@@obi-wankenobi9871 Agree that terms are just thrown around these days, many time without supporting data to back up claims. Yes, GG is making the claim so i'd be nice to see data to support the claim. Your comment is also just a claim without supporting data however, the onus is on GG to support their claim of 300% more impact resistant. The item to remember though is that carbon fiber technology is advancing, so there is a possibility GG's claim could be accurate and not just snubbed-off as massive bullshit. No proof either way as it stands.
@@RedRocket204 In this case thats not how it works. If you make a claim you have to back it up. If someone like me says its probably untrue, because it sounds too good to be true, i am not the one that needs to prove something, GG are the ones to prove that their claims are true, simply because their claims are so bold.
Guerilla Warfare is on
Not a fan of the logo with the stacked wording...would love to design new typeface for logo....love the head tube logo though...
So no more alloy frames?
Kind of bummed alloy frame from them was my next frame for sure