How To Build an 85-89 250R Motor W/ Dave Moore - Part 3 - Top End

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 160

  • @Shaun_81
    @Shaun_81 3 ปีที่แล้ว +29

    Heck yeah, let’s get Arlan next! 👍 Bloopers were great, I could hang out with Dave all day. 😆🤘

  • @250rtrxjunkie
    @250rtrxjunkie 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    This is the best 250R content by far on TH-cam! If it wasn't for both of you it wouldn't have gotten done. Kudos to both of you 👏💯💨💨 Stay on your grind .

  • @cbr600rrturbo
    @cbr600rrturbo 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Every vid gets me more pumped up knowing the wizard is building my 270R ,Yo playboy Dave dont forget to sign my engine....this is gonna be siiiicckk!

  • @everythingdiy8992
    @everythingdiy8992 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Bloopers at the end were by far the best part!!! ...Besides watching it carry the front tires off the line and in second gear beautifully ! great video. great pair of guys! keep it coming!!

  • @kennethlittle5395
    @kennethlittle5395 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Like I said before I'm a 1985 honda 250r atc rider ( 3 wheeler) as you can see from my pic. I really like your videos and Mike's videos. I've been riding 250r 3 wheelers since the 82. And still always learning more from what I consider experts. I'm good but there's always something to learn.

  • @LetsFNgo
    @LetsFNgo 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    It’s a joy watching someone who is a master at their chosen craft perform that job perfectly.

  • @tsar-bomba2413
    @tsar-bomba2413 ปีที่แล้ว

    You're a lucky guy having Dave build your motor for ya, legend for sure

  • @MichaelSabo
    @MichaelSabo  3 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    Thank you for watching the 250R build series with Dave and I! Chapters and tool/products are below 🤘
    Video 1 - Center Cases and Transmission - th-cam.com/video/ASpYpSJ7X6A/w-d-xo.html
    Video 2 - Clutch and Stator Side - th-cam.com/video/Bx97SovoivY/w-d-xo.html
    Video of This Motor Running - th-cam.com/video/ctupjItBnHM/w-d-xo.html
    Chapters
    0:00 - Intro
    0:15 - Piston Install
    1:57 - Cylinder and Spacer Plate Install
    5:28 - Head Install and Squish Explanation
    8:34 - Exhaust Flange Install
    9:00 - Reeds, Spacer, and Intake Install
    14:03 - Finished Motor
    15:03 - Showcase and Engine Running
    15:55 - Bloopers
    Tools and Parts in This Video
    Crank puller/Installer - bit.ly/3kBXDCr
    Case Splitter - bit.ly/3dNh3D4
    Engine Stand - bit.ly/2Tg3J1T
    Clutch holding tool - amzn.to/2O6WSFh
    T-Handle Hex Wrenches - bit.ly/2MEEsvm
    Red Loctite - bit.ly/3szbpIF
    Rekluse Clutch - rekluse.com/product/torqdrive-clutch-pack/
    Rekluse Oil - bit.ly/2NGF5oK
    Hinson Basket - bit.ly/2NDMQM9

    • @KatanaRIDERS.
      @KatanaRIDERS. 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      My yamaha blaster is 270cc
      But the piston is not straight from the top like this

    • @paulmcconway2519
      @paulmcconway2519 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hello. What did you do with your hpi ignition.

    • @BLAZEDALLDATIME
      @BLAZEDALLDATIME ปีที่แล้ว

      Where did you get those collars from

    • @iheartwheelies
      @iheartwheelies ปีที่แล้ว

      How does one get ahold of Dave

    • @BLAZEDALLDATIME
      @BLAZEDALLDATIME ปีที่แล้ว

      @@iheartwheelies I don’t know how to get ahold of Dave but if you go the LED performance you talk to Arlen who he talks about in the video said he’s been doing it longer than him he answers all the questions you need to know and makes a lot of replacement parts in-house that are obsolete

  • @kjohns236
    @kjohns236 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I would love to see a mike and Arland collaboration!!!! Loved learning from this series!

  • @brandonbellacima66
    @brandonbellacima66 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Dave is a freaking legend 🤘🏻. So glad you got to go hangout with him. Awesome videos Mike ! Keep up the great work man 🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻

  • @867diesel
    @867diesel ปีที่แล้ว

    Mike , you taught Dave Moore how to do something ..... putting that clip in . 🤟🤟

  • @Pittsburgh-412
    @Pittsburgh-412 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Man this guy knows his shit. Don't take his advice as an option or opinion, but as legit and solid experience

  • @iheartwheelies
    @iheartwheelies ปีที่แล้ว

    I hung at Dave's MPracing garage back in like 2000 when he was still in Oregon. I've looked all over for MPracing recently and recently accidentally stumbled across a guy who had a 250r recently built by him so here I am watching

  • @Low_Quality_Entertainment
    @Low_Quality_Entertainment 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    5:15 Dave says one of the truest things ever said!!! Thanks for the education guys!

  • @wallfly0131
    @wallfly0131 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    That is probably the most informative information I have ever seen on TH-cam on the 250R. Awsome 👍

  • @jakekatalinas5448
    @jakekatalinas5448 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    That was a phenomenal series hope to see some more hands on stuff like this to learn from

  • @jessiebrewer7434
    @jessiebrewer7434 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The bloopers made it 10x better great either way

  • @dennisbrooks186
    @dennisbrooks186 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Deff would be a sweet vid series from different builders. But you would have to have him use his own motor lol 😆 Dave is the man! I'm a banshee guy now but I started as an R guy and can aprefiate the info and knowledge! I wish someone would do an in depth video on banshee clutch rod length and mods and figuring out the correct throw if you have worn down clutch rod a little etc. Exactly what he did there but for the shee. That was probably my favorite part of this series actually!!!

    • @MichaelSabo
      @MichaelSabo  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm blanking right now but I think the banshee used a similar push rod system and can be corrected the same way; I will re-visit this as I am starting the tear down on my 421 this week!

  • @TheDillio187
    @TheDillio187 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    That motor is going to be awesome. I wish I had the dough to have Dave do a 310 or 330 back in the day.

  • @chriswall3894
    @chriswall3894 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Sabo brings the best videos to help us shade trees out. I feel confident to do my first R build this year. I appreciate wha he brings to this hobby and sport

  • @Junior-fd8ux
    @Junior-fd8ux 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It wasnt a waste of my time Dave. Great guy. Thanks for bringing us this Mike!

  • @roadgliderider1
    @roadgliderider1 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    This dude is awesome.
    Best 30 minutes of my life!!!

  • @a-rod4103
    @a-rod4103 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I have a feeling Arlan would love it. I talked to him yesterday and he loves talking about 2-strokes. Might be a long drive for Mike to get out here to the west coast but at least he could make it out to the Oregon sand dunes.

    • @MichaelSabo
      @MichaelSabo  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I agree man; it's looking like it's going to happen

  • @Quadcrazy84
    @Quadcrazy84 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Need to do a bloopers with Dave throwing tools....and yes Mike Sabo should travel to Arlen shop. Keep it up.

    • @justinlawrence65
      @justinlawrence65 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I was threatened with my life for recording stuff like

    • @MichaelSabo
      @MichaelSabo  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Dude there were definitely wrench throwing moments that week... lol

  • @lawrencestoner2678
    @lawrencestoner2678 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I really enjoyed this series.

    • @MichaelSabo
      @MichaelSabo  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Glad you liked it man!

  • @tristancotton9623
    @tristancotton9623 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    bro loving the videos this has been one of the best rebuild series on a 250r in a bit

  • @mattganley6784
    @mattganley6784 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Man this guy knows his stuff!

  • @ceaserthethird
    @ceaserthethird 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I VOTE for next interview to be with- Arlan Lehman @ LED performance engines

  • @bryansharbowski3769
    @bryansharbowski3769 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Omg.. the bloopers were amazing. Great video series and I would love to see more with m Arlen and others.

  • @newellweeks2759
    @newellweeks2759 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    ❤great video ,,,,I really enjoyed hearing the TALK ABOUT HOW AND WHAT WHILE HES BUILDING THE MOTOR .LOTS OF GOOD TIPS..THANKS U TWO

  • @kylebokor7083
    @kylebokor7083 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Definitely be cool to see Arlan do a video and bubba maybe too

  • @hunterb1145
    @hunterb1145 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Always like these types of videos

  • @nevencordeau8747
    @nevencordeau8747 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice work I wish I had this guy's knowledge on the 250r..you should do a video on putting the hole bottom end together . Nice work guys

  • @stevebanda8776
    @stevebanda8776 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I wanna see Arlan too he seems like he would be a funny guy after talking to him on phone. Might have to bleep a lot tho haha

    • @MichaelSabo
      @MichaelSabo  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Lmao, I would anticipate a lot of bleeping as well

  • @loganflorida462
    @loganflorida462 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Awesome video Mike! Appreciate all your hard work! You too Dave

  • @chadcollins9139
    @chadcollins9139 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Sabo u are killing it with these type of videos thanks bro

  • @juliakaolelopono1068
    @juliakaolelopono1068 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Love your videos man first atv I ever rode was my dad's 86 250r in 1987 so your videos really give me a great feeling and remind me of a simpler time. Thank you.

  • @danielcastelow7523
    @danielcastelow7523 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Ready to hear this thing run

    • @MichaelSabo
      @MichaelSabo  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      th-cam.com/video/ctupjItBnHM/w-d-xo.html

  • @westvirginahillkillers9355
    @westvirginahillkillers9355 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I Scored on a 86 trx250r almost all original. Can not wait to start on the build..

  • @loganflorida462
    @loganflorida462 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Not a single dislike so far. Great job Mike!

  • @g.p.880
    @g.p.880 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This series was awesome, thanks fellas, much appreciated the learning session.

  • @atvtrailing9401
    @atvtrailing9401 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Let’s go, these videos are awesome, love watching your banshee and trx250r videos

  • @McNastyMotorsports
    @McNastyMotorsports 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Awesome video Mike and Dave! Super cool to see this stuff.

  • @stevenleutz6035
    @stevenleutz6035 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    A cornucopia of information! Thanks for sharing Dave's knowledge. I am building an '82 Suzuki RM 250Z engine and have a question about where to put the piston ring end gap. It is a single ring and wonder if I should line it up with a solid portion of the cylinder that misses the ports. Thanks in advance for any help. Keep up the awesome videos Sabo. Cheers!

  • @zacha1408
    @zacha1408 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It would be awesome to see arlan and Mike build an engine

  • @BrewerOffroad
    @BrewerOffroad 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The outakes cracked me up 🤣🤣

  • @justinlawrence65
    @justinlawrence65 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great series Michael, need all of the bloopers.

  • @roadgliderider1
    @roadgliderider1 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is an excellent series and service to all.

  • @TNTMOTO
    @TNTMOTO 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video. Love the content. Will be helpful in the future when i move on to non oem type builds.

  • @amonshrewsbury282
    @amonshrewsbury282 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    One badass quad

    • @MichaelSabo
      @MichaelSabo  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thank you Amon Shrewsbury!

  • @commentpulling
    @commentpulling 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Love the little blooper reel!!

  • @jonmelvin5682
    @jonmelvin5682 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Holy batman did Dave just say you don't have to torque your cylinder base and small air leaks won't explode your motor I been trying to tell people that for years great job guys

  • @danielcastelow7523
    @danielcastelow7523 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Are right Mike and dave need to do a build off that would fun to watch lol

    • @MichaelSabo
      @MichaelSabo  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Oh man, I would get spanked lol

    • @danielcastelow7523
      @danielcastelow7523 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@MichaelSabo it would fun to watch tho dave Moore knows his shit and I enjoy watching him build that motor

  • @BDauto86
    @BDauto86 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome. After the 400ex series you need to take that motor out and go through it with him. Have some fast reliable fun machines.

  • @radarhonda199
    @radarhonda199 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    3 awesome videos!! Great content!!👍

  • @chaneybruton2912
    @chaneybruton2912 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Yes! Go film with Arlen and check out the dunes out here!!

  • @josealfaro4490
    @josealfaro4490 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Sweet video man Dave seems like a kick ass guy. Great work Mike

  • @garywilliamscornwall
    @garywilliamscornwall 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Sabo world tour keeping the 250r alive!

  • @joshuaball8870
    @joshuaball8870 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hey Mike,I’m a big fan of your channel. I think it would be awesome if you could convince Arlen to do a engine build because I would take you out to ride the Oregon dunes. I have a couple 250rs You wouldn’t even have to bring yours. You fly to Portland and we can go riding

  • @leonanthony7007
    @leonanthony7007 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I got one of those too a calibrated elbow

  • @mikehaddox512
    @mikehaddox512 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Dave Moore the guys that design those bigger bore cylinders are generally after more
    cc displacement and horse power, they figure out how to get to the bolts and nuts on after finding it! Usually its not assembly friendly! 😆

  • @jasonhendrie5411
    @jasonhendrie5411 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Yea man dave knows his shit fer sure great job 🤟

  • @danielortegawilson8849
    @danielortegawilson8849 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love Dave moore show use how 2 easy build motor in went more like is the best dave Moore am work on a 1991 XR250L dirt bike

    • @MichaelSabo
      @MichaelSabo  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Dave definitely makes it looks easys!

  • @johnprice864
    @johnprice864 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great job ...love the info..

  • @jordanpanich
    @jordanpanich 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Rad build!

  • @royalracingtechroyalracing6128
    @royalracingtechroyalracing6128 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome work brother 🤟🤟🤟🤟🤟🤟

  • @rubenechezabal6397
    @rubenechezabal6397 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Right on brother... keep up the great work!!!

  • @amonshrewsbury282
    @amonshrewsbury282 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Let’s see it

  • @jaywagner13
    @jaywagner13 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome video! Had to go watch the other 2. Please do video on the before/after dyno #s. So who's porting did u end up with for your cylinder? I seen u were having issues but kinda lost track because I'm working so much.

  • @Ottos_ScLm_Race_videos_2009_on
    @Ottos_ScLm_Race_videos_2009_on 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Beings I just found the videos on 12/26/2023 a few questions. Did you replace the 2nd driven gear?
    I had an 88 TRX250R I raced motocross and was racing at Washougal and blew the 2nd driven gear out the left case half.
    I rebuilt it myself had no problems after rebuild. I was ported, piped, head mod, bigger carb, after market reeds.
    Also took it to Winchester Bay, and Florence. Had no problems climbing any of the dunes.

  • @manny.9273
    @manny.9273 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    *your yz125 watching you fix the 250r for the like the 100th time* : _this guy hasn't even tried putting me back together_

  • @offgridliving4128
    @offgridliving4128 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I still remember the day I met Dave Moor. It was late 1990 something and we raced out on the flats of Sand Lake Oregon. He was pissed because his MP Racing built TRX couldn’t out run my no name built ATC. After that I had him build me a alcohol 262. That fucker flat ripped! I could take out 420 Banshees with no problems. That guy can also build a fast ATC 350x. I may have to look him up and see if he want to work on an RZR now.

  • @noahmariana1623
    @noahmariana1623 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Do a banshee build with him

  • @-IMPALA-TRXR
    @-IMPALA-TRXR 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wish u would have talked about why and how u blocked off power valve. But another good video.

    • @skeetlybeet2584
      @skeetlybeet2584 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I agree. Was really looking forward to that and why he chose the vforce 2’s over the esr reeds or any reeds

    • @justinlawrence65
      @justinlawrence65 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      So every motor responds different. My daughters 330 hated the vf2 and loved the radvalve. It's a reaction to the pipe and porting, the draw, the carb..several things determine how it all reacts

  • @Jknox_1984
    @Jknox_1984 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Just picked up a 370R. And im in need of that billet intake. Any pointers on where to get one ?

  • @dubbedmodz7253
    @dubbedmodz7253 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Love the videos bro

  • @TheDromen69
    @TheDromen69 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've enjoyed this serie of vids. I would like to know if there's some rule behind the spacer increasing o decreasing power output. Is he speaking of cilinder admission or both cilinder and cranckcase admision?

  • @dennisbagatin4480
    @dennisbagatin4480 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    What a awesome video love it .dave is so cool oh yeah you too mike lol.👍✌

  • @jessica1000jess
    @jessica1000jess 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice video

  • @jameshearn9802
    @jameshearn9802 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey Mike, just reaching out to see if you have an answer I’m trying to get my 250r going and it’s got spark, compression, and fuel. But it’s spitting fuel out of the exhaust flange and I’m pretty sure that’s not normal haha any ideas on what I need to look at?

  • @skeetlybeet2584
    @skeetlybeet2584 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Damn good videos 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

  • @978twostrokegarage2
    @978twostrokegarage2 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Yo Mike need some help figuring out what pipe to use on my ltz rm250 swap do I get it cut and customized or should I cut the inner frame bars that hold the old oil tank. Trying to get this thing done. My 450r ready for a race with that kfx 🤟🏻😎😅

    • @MichaelSabo
      @MichaelSabo  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I would recommend finding a pipe builder that's willing to take on the project; you could call LED and see if they can help or if they can refer you to someone

    • @978twostrokegarage2
      @978twostrokegarage2 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MichaelSabo quick update lol I used a yz250 pipe right side mounted fit perfect.. but thanks bro appreciate it 💯

  • @thee_ole_24v
    @thee_ole_24v 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey MIKE got a question or 2 ive been looking into a 330 kit or 350 kit for my 86 trx. what needs to be done is there any kits pre honed or any kits that are just bolt on I do not know you have a bunch of knowledge about this stuff figured ide ask you.

  • @joshbeck289
    @joshbeck289 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    So we’re you having problems with your crank and stuff?

  • @jamiewalker1743
    @jamiewalker1743 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have a predator 500 what would you suggest doing for it big bore 540 or rebuild stock

  • @ewa2929
    @ewa2929 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hell ya arlan on deck.

  • @minibikemadman
    @minibikemadman 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    we never got those dyno sheets..I wana see the difference vs pv and npv

  • @phillipyeamons344
    @phillipyeamons344 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Is it important to check the squish if I'm building with a stock cylinder and planning to run pump gas?

    • @davemooreracing
      @davemooreracing 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      If its still 100% OEM( meaning all the parts your using are OEM and all built to work together) then the answer is no. You will be fine.

  • @brucestewart78
    @brucestewart78 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Waiting on the Arlin video like 🙇

  • @lanniewiant8269
    @lanniewiant8269 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I would love to get a block off for my pv were did u get it

  • @ciscosvidz1531
    @ciscosvidz1531 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Can you please give me the web site to purchase that new Sonny intake manifold?

    • @MichaelSabo
      @MichaelSabo  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      You need to contact him via his Facebook. Fair warning, mine did not fit when going into the frame and I ended up using a UPP boot instead.

  • @royhenson3379
    @royhenson3379 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I loved these videos....Does Dave Moore have a Channel?

    • @MichaelSabo
      @MichaelSabo  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes - th-cam.com/users/davemooreracing

  • @CodyBoyy
    @CodyBoyy 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    love that dude his full of laughs lol

  • @user-zt2cc7qq9b
    @user-zt2cc7qq9b ปีที่แล้ว

    So he didn't need to use any base gasket sealer on either of the 2 base gaskets?

  • @privateuser3326
    @privateuser3326 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Where to get the stainless head nuts?

  • @ryanquackenbush7475
    @ryanquackenbush7475 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Where can you buy these engine stands ?

  • @ixcelr8ixcelr855
    @ixcelr8ixcelr855 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Why did you delete the power valve??

    • @MichaelSabo
      @MichaelSabo  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      It made more power over the entire power curve without it; in my opinion it's a faulty design.

  • @ewa2929
    @ewa2929 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Dig the off camara Dave better then the correct Dave.

  • @cosminvlog4586
    @cosminvlog4586 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    My little 250cc engine is starving for oil, its because of the oil pump ? i just ordered a new one

    • @MichaelSabo
      @MichaelSabo  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Possibly if it's a 4 stroke

    • @cosminvlog4586
      @cosminvlog4586 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@MichaelSabo well yes it is . Thank you!

  • @pauluptmor8731
    @pauluptmor8731 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What intake boot did you use on this build?
    Sonny

    • @sonnyfricia7471
      @sonnyfricia7471 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      They are Mikuni boots. Only the best.

    • @pauluptmor8731
      @pauluptmor8731 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@sonnyfricia7471 where can I purchase two for my trx250r

    • @sonnyfricia7471
      @sonnyfricia7471 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@pauluptmor8731 you can email me if you'd like.
      SFricia@hotmail.com

    • @MichaelSabo
      @MichaelSabo  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes, the intake is made by Sonny and it's a great piece but fair warning, mine did not fit when going into the frame and I ended up using a UPP boot instead. Depends on your setup.