Baldur's Gate 3: Five Subclasses I Avoid
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มิ.ย. 2024
- Talking about a few of the subclasses I avoid playing in Baldur's Gate 3 mostly due to their mechanical shortcomings though thankfully BG3's balancing still allows them to be viable options for a playthrough.
Timestamps
00:00 Intro
01:21 Transmutation Wizard
03:04 Trickery Domain Cleric
04:48 Eldritch Knight Fighter
07:32 Arcane Trickster Rogue
09:18 Illusion Wizard
11:12 Wrap Up
Intro Music By Juan Andrés Matos, www.juanmatosmusic.com/
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Yeah speccing shadowheart out of trickster is like the first thing to do, it's just so underwhelming.
As an RP lore purist I would never do that, but as a cleric enthusiast I need to say that light or tempest depending on your "alignment" is the way to go... My light Lathander build just makes cleansing everything too easy.. and on my evil cleric run its tempest cleric of Talos..
But as a cleric of Shar, trickster beautifully represents the opportunities lost worshipping other deities :D
@@peterhospodar7876Actually as a fellow RP purist, I suggest 3 thief/9 light/life cleric split. It is very RP (especially considering Sharts story + she is still a rogue (thief for stealing the prism) and plays like one. And it’s also hella strong too
Totally didn’t think to do this until watching this video. Man. Feel stupid hah.
Trickster tricks the player into thinking cleric is a weak class
Or tricks the player into using a subclass-less cleric
@@peterhospodar7876 Yeah tempest is contender for best cleric anyways with the implementation of create water in this game (making all enemies vulnerable to cold/lightning without saving throw? sure)
I had to go through 50 hours of gameplay until I finally decided to make Shadowheart a life cleric therefore making her useful. I had to essentially google "why does shadowheart suck" and all answers were people saying she had to get a respec into life cleric. Best decision I made.
I'd also recommend a Shadowheart respec with Lvl 1 as fighter _(allowing for heavy armor + all weapon proficiencies + CON saving throw proficiency for concentration checks)_ with her Fighting style as "Protection". The protection fighting style will allow her _(when equipped with a shield)_ to stand next to teammates and impose disadvantage on attack rolls against them. The "Light" and "War" domains are also excellent for her.
Because it's only one level... this will still allow her to cast lvl 6 cleric spells. The fighter benefits at 1st lvl greatly outweigh the loss of a feat at lvl 12. Make sure to respec her with Fighter at lvl 1 though... you miss out on heavy armor and CON saving throw proficiencies if you take fighter after lvl 1.
Sure you do mean life and not light cleric. I don't need a healer, but a supporter and nuker. Give him one lev Wizard and Headband of Intellect and you have 4 wiz casts like Haste or whatever you find on scrolls and is useful, that clerics do not have in their own repertoire.
I respected her into life cleric/oaths of ancients PLD. She is beefy with party heals and buffs now. Just felt right to me. Especially since I am running a tri class of 1 dragon sorc(picked the Agatha Shield one for the ice blast on hit ) 1 storm cleric (same thing for lightning) and 10 Abjure Wizard for a finesse style reaction tank that douses group with water then wades into battle duel challenging and taking no damage while punishing every attack I receive. Chefs kiss
Personally I prefer Shadowheart to be Light or Tempest domain so she deals very high damage while still having support spells
life cleric is broken
just cast healing word and bless everyone for 2 turns
I feel that the eldrich knight would feel way better if they implemented some of the more interesting gish cantrips like booming blade and the like.
Absolutely, or that new version of True strike they're talking about for pnp.
Eldritch knight’s real ability in this game is to make every weapon a returning weapon. That’s….sad.
In my DnD game, we have a Barbarian-coded (he roleplays like a Barbarian, is mechanically an EK) Eldritch Knight that is basically The Boulder from Avatar: The Last Airbender. He speaks in third person, puts on a strongman act for coin like a street musician, uses a few Earth-themed spells….and his Bonded Weapon is a 400-pound rock he found on the side of the road. He’s a Goliath, so he can lift it. His strategy is to run up to someone and summon the rock above their head and let it fall. Technically, RAW, this would do 1d4 damage as it’s an improvised weapon, but our DM thinks that is dumb and makes the enemy do a Dex saving throw to avoid getting smacked by the giant rock. We’re still tinkering with how to calc damage, but he’s said that if it turns out to be too busted the way he’s doing it, he’ll just make it do Greataxe damage, which is pretty fair IMO. He’s already got access to Greataxe proficiency, after all, and this is purely a flavor thing.
But you can’t do that in a video game.
Pathfinder eldrich knight: extreme fun
Dnd's eldritch fighter: extremely boring
@@jonathanrich9281have no idea why I just read all that bc I don’t play pnp but that story was pretty neat. Can’t imagine playing pnp sober tho
If larian didn't remove certain items from early access. I think eldritch knight could still work. Like the hag's ring that gives you vicious mockery combo it with the ring that allows you cast enchantment or illusion spells as bonus action.
For a more useful comment. A friend and I are doing a duo tactician run (only 2 party members and players out of camp - e.g. we keep Astarion to do the act 2 potion) we made gale a transmutation wizard and respecced him to have proficiency in med and max wisdom. He's our potion man at camp, because we churn through them.
I use a hireling, the halfling bard Brinn for that. Being Lucky is a bonus when creating potions. And I also use her to cast Longstrider on everyone in camp after every long rest. Extra movement on every one until the next long rest. 👍
Did something similar in a regular playthrough. While you might not striclty need the potions, it helps.
@@TBrincefield you know what I just pumped wisdom into gale and accepted when I didn't get double potions. It takes the same amount of effect and helps avoid some fails so I'll be doing this in the future. Thanks for the tip
@@TBrincefieldyep that’s what I do. Means churning out potions, giving my main character a transmuters stone to get constitution saving throw proficiencies, mage armour and long strider than they can chill in camp.
It’s not glamorous but you know can’t have the teeth without the tail.
I like the idea of party goons.
They just bum around and do their one thing every day.
A favorite of mine is having a couple spare characters in Druid to spam Goodberry at the start of the day, then pass all their berries to someone, to have a big pile of readily available small heals
Feels like the alt title of this video should have just been “There are so many Potions & Scrolls in BG3, they completely unbalance the game.” 😏
While you’re totally right… My Thief is the furthest thing from upset about it.
Eldritch knight with tavern brawler so your thrown weapon returns to you is very fun also
On an unrelated note, I believe that thrown daggers can trigger sneak attacks
This is very interesting! Thx for sharing
and actually one of the best fighter build too (at least better than melee battle master build)
The only annoying thing is that nothing really outclasses the returning pike except the Lightning Jabber. You could easily roll it on a throwzerker until Nyrulna
There are only three returning weapons in the game, two of which are in act 3 so if you want to throw I think there is a pretty strong argument for weapon bind(especially if you missed the returning pike lol)
I found the Eldritch knight good if you multiclass it with wizard. Take fighter to 6 so you get 2 feat. And then take wizard to 6 necromancy. This means you are basically a death knight.
eldritch*
@@Sarkhan69 thank you.
I just took Tavern Brawler at 4 and EK instantly popped off.
Hey, that's my main, but the first reason I've decided to use EK is because I want to use a fighter that could also cast fireball (I've failed to do that). But using Lvl.11 EK, Lvl 1 Wizard, made me very versatile by using cantrip, and useful movement spells for the party.
I probably don't need to be an Eldritch Knight and change to a different subclass, but somehow I manage to blitz through every battle anyway.
Ayyy same, i have a lvl 3 eldritch knight and level 6 wizard in act 2 and it slaps, i might only level fighter to 5 tho for extra attack and make wizard level 7 so i can get the highest possible level spells
Transmutation wizard is actually very useful. Have him sit camp it’s all the alchemical ingredients and make stuff, and dip into a class for Expertise. Get double some of the best potions in the game almost guaranteed.
I just use the halfling hire, spec them from bard to tans-wiz that way you get all that you've listed plus halfling lucky feat so you get a chance to re-roll any fails. And since they won't be in combat you can ignore intel to max out wis to up medicene to make potions moree likely to double.
Do you really use the potions that much? I played tactician until end of Act 1 and I never felt like I needed a potion master.
@@j_g_t6091 Can never have too many
You can also use the Transmutation stone buff!
@@j_g_t6091 I use it for elixers of cloud giant strength and the -1 crit elixer. You can also use enhance ability on the wizard to give adv to the crafting check. but having 27str every day on your monk or fighter is godly powerful
would be nice if the EK would let you cast a cantrip as a bonus action instead of having an attack as bonus action.
there is a ring that allows you to be able to cast an illusion or enchantment spell as a bonus action after making a weapon attack. very useful on EK
Mort: "This isn't to say that these subclasses are bad"
Mort: *Puts Transmutation wizard on the list*
Me: *And I took that personally.*
And when listing out the effects of the Transmuter Stone he didn't even list the most important one: Constitution save proficiency.
@@Daftdrunkk It's better to spec a hireling into Transmutation with high medicine and use him as a Alchemy crafting / bank
He made me want to roll one NGL lmao i think they sound cool
Transmutation feels great when navigating the city because you basically get infinite flight at no cost.
Baldur's Gate 3 does not favor production classes. We are missing the Artificer class from 5e. I would love to modify weapons, enchantments, debuffs, etc. But I also realize it would be complicated to get materials for such a character.
I feel like having a shield spell on a fighter can sometimes be extremely useful. Having a full plate is already making you quite tanky, but having a +AC reaction to top it off for those high rolls makes EK feel a really safe. It's also a really flavorful pick, some spice for that basic vanilla fighter. I do wish we had access to the booming blade, but at least there's a mod for blade cantrips if you don't mind going for that route.
with no MC prereq a 2 lvl dip into wizard is significantly better
I would start EK and lvl up until 7, then respec into battle master 5, abjuration wizard 2, bonus points due to the arcane ward
EK is significantly impacted by lack of the blade cantrips 😢
@@arthurmarques6191 If BG3 goes beyond level 12 it's probably better to do wizard dip but skipping the 3rd attack is really not worth it. EK is still mainly a fighter.
Multi other fighter into wizard. 1 wizard level is 3 levels of EK for spell progression, without school restrictions.
@@arthurmarques6191 a level 2 wizard dip on a fighter? Yikes, bye bye 3rd attack, bye bye feat.
Not worth it!
@@chrisgee8441 Eldritch knight has de facto no restrictions either, because every level you can exchange spells and those exchanges are unrestricted by schools.
I think the big thing Arcane Trickster got going for it in this game is that sneak attack applies to spells with attack rolls. So you could cast scorching ray for 12d6 at max lvl. On top of that since the mage hand is invisible it doesnt join combat and can be freely moved to consistently give you sneak attack opportunities. By far not nearly as op as some other classes but ive had quite a bit of fun with it
They can also learn all the movement-related buffs, which is really handy. I play as a sorcerer, so I don't really need a wizard in my team, and not having to switch in Gale after every long rest to buff everyone with longstrider is a godsend, along withcasting the occasional enhanced leap or featherfall.
I actually really like Arcane Trickster because of the amount of utility it has, you can get pretty much all the Ritual spells so you can easily sneak into pretty much anywhere you want, you can also put 2 levels into wizard to get access to level 2 spellslots early and the ability to learn from scrolls.
is it not 14d6? 1 ray is 2d6 and you get a ray for each level, base is 2 for 6d6
Contrary to this video, I feel like the availability of spell scrolls is what actually makes Arcane Trickster quite good. With Cunning Sneak, you use you bonus action to get advantage on the entire wizard spell list via scrolls. Given the availability of spell scrolls in Act 2 and 3, this is *very* good imo. Ledgermain Hand is a bit finnicky, but I've found that if you degroup it and hold it back, you can ensure it doesn't join combats with its abysmal initiative. Which means you get a free throw action for a fat 4x invis/haste pot on the party, use a throwable or whatever. Arcane Trickster is underrated!
@prjonku you are correct my bad I'll edit my comment, though I believe it only gods up to 6d6 sneak attack which would be 12d6 total
Counter-argument for the transmutation wizard!
It’s a great hireling class. Specifically: a rogue 1/wizard X that takes expertise in medicine and pumps everything into wisdom.
At lv12 w/expertise, you’d have a +13 to medicine. Meaning if you made a halfling rogue1/wizardX you would literally never fail a single DC15 medicine check and would forever have double potions!
Yup, I do exactly this!
Same. Gale as my transmutation wizard for potions, elixirs, and coatings. Hireling for Aid, warding bond, heroes feast and death ward buffs, Halsin picks up the slack when higher level spell slots are exhausted. Buffing after a long rest can take about 20 min, however there isn't anything I'm not prepared for when I leave camp and I only long rest to progress the story.
if you put a few levels into bard instead of rouge, you get access to expertise and the ability improvement spell, owls wisdom grants you advantage on wisdom skills.
@@alex-uw4mm I've tried several variations, but I keep coming back to Transmutation Wizard 2/Rogue 1/Cleric 9 due to the fact you can't get Warding Bond as a Magical Secret and that's one of the primary spells I want out of my camp buffer.
oops looks like you rolled a naaaat 1, 5 times in a row? ooh that's bad luck buddy, even though you literally cannot fail, you fail cause if the nat 1
Respeccing Shadowheart to light cleric after a certain moment in the story is also good for a roleplaying purpose :)
Literally the first thing I do at the start as soon as I get Withers is respec Shadowheart out of Trickery Domain, the other domains are SO much better. Life essentially makes your party dang near unkillable with the huge mass healing bonuses, Light is so good it's almost broken when paired with the Luminous gear and the radiance orb debuff stacks on enemies not to mention warding flare. Tempest allows you to nuke groups of foes almost as good as a Wizard or sorcerer
I think that's really interesting from a meta-narrative perspective. You can see that her religion is obviously a bad choice for her, but she sticks with it because it's all she knows. My take: keep her in Trickery until *plot happens* and respec her into Light Domain
Make her a Druid.
She can keep the trickery, and just become a bear.
People dig bears.
@@AndrewFullertonI mean, theoretically a light cleric who worships Shar could work because they’d still be studying light as well as darkness. Dominating and mediating light is almost better worship for Shar than trickery.
People dig bears? That implies someone is planting bears somewhere
Where are these bear farmers? I just wanna talk to them @@aprinnyonbreak1290
I liked my own version of the Eldritch Knight in Neverwinter Nights 2.
If memory serves, 1 level of Warlock, the rest in Barbarian. The Warlock allows you to bind Eldritch Blast to your melee attack, the Barbarian with high Str allows you to wield a two handed sword in each hand. Melee damage output was insane!
Argument for Illusion wizard - he pairs very nicely with a rogue. If everyone's in full view of the rogue after a stab attack, you can use the bonus action to put the illusion and distract everyone, allowing the rogue to re-hide again and get advantage on his next attack roll. Situational yes, but it gives me a nice buddy-cop routine feel between my Astarion and Gale.
I have a similar combo with arcane trickster SH and illusion Gale. Darkness/blessing of the trickster/minor illusion is a good mid fight reset combo. I think these classes are better in a RP play through, where you aren’t content clearing as much.
I agree, I have a thief illusionist build whose very slippery and helps my team (which consists of Shadow Monk, Hunter/Assassin, & Paladin/Assassin) get advantage/sneak attack.
The Eldritch Knight really suffers from the lack of spells from later spells like Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade. That being said, if you're doing a modded run with 5e Spells installed, it's a much more viable class.
Considering the level limitation of Eldritch Knight, the reason I pick it isn't for any sort of offensive casting but rather just for self-buffs that I can use as often as I like without needing to use consumables on. Its high AC + Blur + Shield creates a lot of defense without having to give up any Feat selections or its third Extra Attack. That said, it ends up being the *only* reason I would pick it, aside from RP concept. So I agree with you, it feels underwhelming.
It’s crazy to me that 12 levels in eldritch knight still only gives level 2 spell slots. Can’t even cast fireball on eldritch knight.
As someone who stealthed my way through the majority of the goblin camp and grymforge Trickery Domain and Arcane trickster were super useful. Jump plus featherfall is so useful for mobility and you don't always want Gale in your party.
The fact there’s so many different outcomes to situations, makes this so replayable and immersive. I absolutely love this one. 💞✌😊👍
My initial run I kept Shadowheart as her default Trickery Cleric subclass. I constantly wondered why she sucked so much. I switched out to try something like Tempest after seeing people post their stuff on the matter. When I respec'ed Shadowheart, she suddenly became amazing.
If you have 4 hirelings under transmutation wizard you can get a transmuter stone and give it each of your active party member. You can also just keep them around so they will handle your potion brewing. In fact one could argue that it's always a good idea to have a transmutation wizard since there's really no downside.
I'm currently doing a Lae'zel solo tactician Eldritch Knight Astral Plane Greatsword run and I feel like it made me appreciate the class more. It's not as flashy as as Battle Master, but I feel like I just wouldn't survive many encounters if I was Battle Master.
This is a great idea for a video! Considering how locked in your choices are and how significant they can be, I got anxious to pick subclasses so I wish I had this video at the time!
A lot of subclasses feel underwhelming to me because of scrolls. That's one thing I loved about Solasta (another crpg build with D&D 5e in mind) where only a character who can eventually learn a spell can use a scroll of that spell. With this rule, picking a 1/3 caster subclass gives you access to a lot of scrolls on top of giving you some spells.
Solasta: We Have BG3 At Home
I think illusion wizard is pretty useful early game. There’s tons of pre-combat situations where minor illusion will lump enemies close to FireWine barrels or other such explosives and maintaining stealth throughout that is great for the squishy wizard. I’d probably spec out of that around act 2 though so your point is still valid. Just my opinion
Great, informative, stuff, as always! I've been trying to figure out which playstyle fits me and would love a video of your favorite subclasses.
I love Eldritch Knight, not for all the spells or anything but for throwing weapons and one spell, Darkness. Making Lae'zel immune to blind with that one Act 3 Helmet then pairing her darkness with my shadow monk's darkness I had so much fun.
There’s also a Ring in Act 2 that does that, and bad-girl Shadoheart gets a weapon that does the helmet thing. Add in a Warlock with the invocation or the other Act 3 helmet and your whole party can see in Magical Darkness.
Transmutation is for if u don’t bring gale in the party, u can just respec him into a wisdom wizard and give him a high modifier for medicine so he can more commonly double produce potions. I combine this with a multi class into cleric of mystra so he can guidance himself so I don’t have to skewer my party every time I want to mix potions. Again, this is really only viable if he’s in stay at home dad mode
on my first playthrough I didn't change Shadowheart because of roleplay but on my second I changed her to tempest and she became so much fun to use
I did my first playthrough as eldritch knight and it pretty much became the shield spell subclass + scrolls
This comes across as "If Larian makes a harder difficulty, cutting resources like scrolls, and maybe randomized missing magic items from shops should be high priority"
I've said in a few other videos the game could use one more difficulty option yeah
@@MortismalGaming
Balanced
Tactician
Avernus⇐
People are underplaying the usefulness of the illusion wizard. Casting Minor Illusion as a bonus action during combat can be extremely useful because even if the investigation check fails it forces enemies to face the direction of the illusion. I've found this advantagous as the wizard can cast this spell as a bonus action to turn enemies to whichever direction you prefer. Following this you can use your cunning action rogue to hide right behind them allowing for an easy sneak attack without the need for a stealth check. Illusion wizard + Rogue combo has had great synergy throughout my play through as they compliment each other well.
Can rec the risky ring for basically permanent advantage
doesn't the investigation check also reveal the location of invisible enemies?
I like the Eldrich Knight on the main character because you can use almost all the useful ritual spells as well as cantrips when you need some elemental damage.
For eldritch knight it’s very important to multi class into wizard. When you look at being only a level 12 eldritch knight is the level 10 elderitch smite but compared to going into wizard for 5 or 6 levels and then getting level 3 and 4 spells instead of only 1 and 2
It's interesting to see how much scroll and potion access affects the usefulness of some subclasses - In actual D&D the DM can limit those resources so not to dilute spellcasting but in a video game you don't have that option. I know I've given my players very few scrolls in my time as a DM
It's easy to go full Schrodinger's cat for resources in tabletop, whereby parties without a healer might find far more potions than those with, but in videogame format people would quickly find out that they're being hampered for certain selections and it would cause a lot of drama. So instead you find piles and piles of resources.
I really like the thoughtfulness of your content!
Great video as always! I hope that in the future, we can know which subclasses you use more.
There is niche use for eldritch knight/thief if you focus solely on shocking grasp albeit you have to get shocking grasp from high elf or feat. You can combine spellmight with amulet of elemental augmentation. Essentially allowing for 2 bonus attacks for casting 5d8+15 (assuming 20 int) shocking grasp thing like spellweave hood help mitigate the attack penalty from gloves.
Just get spellsniper. You should anyway. Lowers Crits to 19 and gives you a cantrip. Stack it with the other lower threat items to get critical down to 15-17, and that's a rap for the difficulty.
I always love that eldritch knight sounds badass but really its just a vanilla fighter with a pet owl/crow and a bunch of shield scrolls... imagine thinking you are the pinnacle of sword and sorcery and then you meet a swords bard, blade singer or pally
There is one really good use for Transmutation Wizards. Get one as a Hireling, respec to pump Wis over Int. 2 levels Wizard, 1 Rogue to grab Expertise in Medicine. Then just use Feats to boost Wisdom.
And yeah they're just gonna be your Alchemy lackey. Almost guaranteed Double Elixirs is awesome. Plus tons of early game Potions of Speed
Solid content as always boss💪
Eighth playthrough!!! I love it! 😂 I have plans to do at least four including two co-op playthroughs.
A note on minor illusion: in combat it causes enemies to turn to look at it. Very useful to allow rogue teammates to set up bonus action stealth attacks by shifting detection cones.
Can also be used first round of combat when everyone starts in stealth.
Situational obviously.
Throwing is still so busted that having any weapon return to your hand is dope. Can always respec when you get weapons with that perk
Totally agree on the disclaimer you made at the beginning of the video! I really like trickery domain cleric in the tabletop version because of how much you can do with it outside of combact and because it's an interesting spin on clerics from a lore viewpoint. Unfortunately in the videogame they really dont shine as much as in the tabletop
Thanks for making this video and thanks for the comments reminding me that I can (and should) change Shadowheart's subclass because I never use the crap it comes with
I remember when I first realized that there were other cleric subclasses. I was so baffled by how shadowheart consistently managed to be so shit all the time, till I made my own cleric and realized that she wasn’t even specked into healing. Now that I have her as a go to life cleric, she is indispensable
I knew clicking on this you would say my fave class, arcane trickster haha. Love it so much in tabletop, about to start my first playthrough of BG3 tonight 😊
Mortis great video, but I would like a follow up video that talks about Multiclassing and how it changes the viability of some of these "inferior" sub classes (like Multiclassing Eldritch Knight with Wizard, which let's you get higher level spells and also learn from any scroll, and you can leave your INT at the lowest possible and pick the intelligence diadem very early into Act 1 to boost it back up). Multiclassing is a whole thing in itself to talk about, but a video talking specifically about how some weaker subclasses can be boosted by Multiclassing would be particularly interesting.
Warlock is still great for multiclassing, even if the harbinger of the multiclassed apocalypse, Hexblade isn't in the game.
Also I feel like it's the death blow for Eldritch Knight.
A Battlemaster + 2 or 3 levels of Primary Caster is so, so much better than Eldritch Knight in the context of this game. Especially Bard, with how handy Bards are in general for this game.
I’ve seen a lot of people say that, but personally I find battlemaster to be underwhelming. The manuevers are not as good as the mitigation and utility spells to me. Plus If you put 2-3 levels in a primary caster you don’t get triple attack anymore. I think ek 11 wizard 1 is significantly better than battlemaster with 2-3 levels in another class. Granted I don’t usually take any offensive spells cause I’m gonna be chopping or tossing anyway, which means int doesn’t matter and can be a dump stat.
I think eldritch knight is very good, but it's more a tank-spec than a magical martial damage dealer. I made lae'zel eldritch knight and she was basically untouchable, and used her 2nd level slots to misty step or buff herself, maybe use magic missile if I needed lots of hits all over the place. Otherwise... Expeditious retreat, see invisibility and shield is all she needed outside of auto-attacking.
So, I've wanted to experiment with a Gish fighter (I enjoy the challenge), so I'm currently playing an Eldrich Knight, multiclassed after 5th level to an abjurer wizard. Still not the most powerful, but with a wider access to spells than a pure EK. The character can use scrolls to add to their spells, and can use arcane magic items (like a wand of fireballs, etc) that would normally not be available for a pure melee class. Scrolls, potions and items with spell effects make up for having less spells, plus the PC can use magic weapons and armor, certain combinations of which boost magic attacks after doing melee actions--hings that generate "wrath" and "momentum" (etc) while you run and swing your sword, then translate into boosted attacks or spells the next round.
With the right feats, I've got an adaptable jack of all trades, who can use switch between spells, melee or ranged. The character has defensive spells, and area control spells which shut down melee opponents, and makes them easier to hit. They have defensive fighting style, which boosts AC with medium armor (Dex is a better stat that STR in 5e, since it grants stealth to set up ambushes, higher initiative, and ranged bonuses). I have second wind, action surge, 2xAttacks & Generally I fight as a light tank, holding the line, switching tactics depending on the situation. More versatile powers also synergize with more of my companions attacks, so I often set them up to surgically take out targets I've shut down in combat.
One more benefit - I feel freer to change up companions. If I want to play through an NPCs story arc, I can drop companions I'd normally use, because my character can be a backup fighter, wizard, auxiliary scout (stealthy), or party face (has some social skills), as needed.
So a EK is individually less powerful than a focused build, but is more versatile, and there's enough equipment in the game that you can more than make up for it.
I think the Arcane Trickster and Eldritch Knight are best described as "highly situational" as in they can be used as a part of certain multiclass builds, usually relying on certain items to make them work. This is usually to gain Fighter or Rogue features while also getting spell caster levels to hit a certain overall spell caster level at the end of the build so key spells can be learned via scrolls - a level 6/5/1 Eldritch Knight / Cleric / Wizard build taking advantage of the extra feat Fighters get at level 6 and the Headband of Intellect for instance. Outside of these kinds of very specific situations I agree these aren't very useful in BG3.
yo just say eldritch knight 6/cleric 5/wizard 1. geez.
I would like to see Larian's analytics on how quickly people respec Shadowheart out of Trickery Domain. I usually switch her to rogue right after the Nautiloid crashes..going from level 1 to level 2. Just hand her a dagger and she is good to go. I mean, she still can't hit a target but at least a couple levels of rogue is useful. Her stats are so bad she needs an eventual respec no matter.
trickery domain is just garbage and her stats arent that good. They should have made her war domain, still works with her backstory etc but is actually good not garbage.
I think Illusionist is pretty good actually, but only if you ever explore in turn-based mode. There are areas with traps and monsters that will automatically target a party member they can see, and it can be used to distract these traps or monsters, while keeping your main action free for dash, hide, or another spell
Transmutation is great... for a hireling you keep at camp. That casts your daily Wizard Ritual Buffs, and alchemy.
I've been messing with a rogue 3/cleric 9 build using arcane trickster and trickery domain on tactician and it's been interesting how much synergy the two classes can have to cover each other's weaknesses. Like right at the start too because trickery clerics can give themselves free advantage for sneak attacks with their channeled divinity if no teammates are nearby.
The build really comes online in act 2 when you pick up the helmet of arcane acuity to raise up your attack rolls and spell dc, so your control spells land with much more accuracy and sharpshooter hits nearly every time.
For anything that's not a humanoid and being held in place for free crits, spirit guardians does a lot of damage and keeps enemies from running too far. Using command to prone enemies basically makes them unable to run at all. The build will get stronger in Act 3 with the ring of the mystic soundrel that lets you cast illusion or enchantment spells with a bonus action after doing a weapon attack. A lot of spells you can pick up on both classes fall under that category and it opens up the door for more spell control. Tbh I might switch to thief for the extra bonus action so i can cast two leveled spells a turn instead but its not set in stone.
to be honest I haven't even been tempted to play the subclasses you mentioned, because they seemed pretty weak given what I know of the gameplay. I totally agree about Trickster Cleric. I have had so much fun playing either tempest or light.
Agreement! I'd like to see your 5 favorites, too!
Videos like this are so awesome because usually the counter arguments in the comments are just as informative.
I use Eldritch Knight in my Tactician Playthrough because of Long Strider, Light and Featherfall. 🤪 The Fighter at level 12 is so powerful that I don't care about losing out on Battlemaster (very good early, but losing value over time) and Champion (mediocre benefits over the base class all the time). And I have no arcane backup casting because my crew is basically a melee only clump (Oath of Ancients Paladin, Light Cleric, Wildheart Barbarian, EK Fighter) to abuse the radiance mechanic with the Luminous Armor on Shart.
But in general you are right: It's close to useless if Fighter wasn't so powerful.
Agree with everything you said except Battlemaster losing value over time. Disarm, Trip, Push, Riposte, and Precision give insane value from the first fight to the last. It's in my opinion the single best sub-class in the game because of the easy control and high added dmg. (One could argue Open Hand Monk is the best, but whatever.)
Yeah, you can't really go wrong with Fighter. lvl 11 Fighter is probably the strongest non-multiclass character in the game, and on par with other meta multiclass options.
Misty step makes you a teleporting instrument of melee death.
I once bought a relatively known TH-camr's homebrew of Eldritch Knight for tabletop. It was actually rather neat. You got extra features reminiscent of those of Blood Hunter. And that was before BH iirc.
Trickery Cleric - I love the roleplay of having Shadowheart start as Trickery, then respecc her after the end of Act 2 based on her choices.
Chooses Selune? Light or Life Cleric, or maybe Tempest if she wants to bring the wrath alongside Aylin.
Chooses Shar? War, now that she is a Dark Justiciar ready to bring death to Shar's enemies.
Eldritch Knight - I've got 2 builds with this that I'm working on (but am not very far in the playthroughs that use them) that I think could be fun:
1) A throwing build, where you take 3 points into EK for the Pact passive, and thus aren't restricted to JUST those weapons that auto-return on throw anymore.
2) A Warlock multi-class, where you go: |Warlock Lvl 2| |Eldritch Knight Lvl 7| |Thief Lvl 3|
This way you can cast Blast with your main action, then get a main weapon attack chain off with your bonus action, then poke 'em with your off hand attack as well.
Another idea for this one would be to ignore Thief and just go Warlock 4 and EK 8 to maximise Perks, plus that way you could take Pact of Blade and you'd only need to worry about Charisma, instead of both Charisma and Dex.
Transmutation Wizard -
I took this for my Githyanki Wizard RP character, as he had the background of |Guild Artisan|, so I like to think he specialised in powerful alchemical mixes for his people.
But yeah I stopped putting levels in it once it hit 6 lol (and multi'd into other stuff past that), I like the stone for the RP but I don't really know what to do with the subclass beyond that.
Arcane Trickster Rogue -
The only Rogue I have yet to try lol. Seems I'm not the only one avoiding it!
Illusion Wizard -
Haven't given this one a go yet either, sounds unfortunate.
I had a sleepless night. I read your title as Sunglasses I Avoid.
Very Interesting video!!
Well done, M8. Thank you.
As a long time tabletop player. The context of this vid is exactly what I was hoping for. Are these subclasses good in this game? Even if they are cool in tabletop more generally. Perfectly done.😊
The illusion wizard's bonus action minor illusion can actually be useful in combat. Occasionally it works as a distraction but really shines with a rogue sneak attacking since it makes all enemies direct their cones of vision at the illusion
i always play as Eldritch Knight because i think i stumbled upon a very fun build. Yes, its of course a 90% fighter, but the little spells it gets are very helping. At the first level you can choose a wizard spell: i always choose False Life, this is the core ability for eldritch knight. It buffs Hp making you tankier. It should be always active. Then Shield is an amazing spell to always have ready, avoiding a killing blow, making you even tankier. Then you later get Enlarge and Mirror Image... i mean, need i go on?
The core of the class is having a heavy armored fighter that casts out of combat buffs on himself turning virtually invulnerable, then jumping in the midst of the enemy line and wreaks havoc.
So the key abilities are having a lot of CON to not lose concentration, a 2 handed weapon, False Life, Mirror Image, Shield and Enlarge. If githyanky you can have a free Misty step too.
now I know what to make my next party comp! sub-optimal gaming! :D
I want to add that even though potions and elixirs are readily available, having a transmutation wizard and buying/stealing every reagent you come across enables specific builds. Most people do this with a hireling, but if you dont want to cheese it that way, transmutation does bring quite a bit of value with that trait alone. 21str act 1-2.5 and 27str act 2.5-3 on any character of your choice is pretty powerful for example.
One note on the Illusion Wizard criticism is that I've heard some people love doing stealth in turn-based mode so there could be a use case for a bonus action minor illusion, but your thought that a wizard wouldn't go on the sneak mission to begin with still stands.
I'll say, I've been really enjoying my honor mode Eldritch Knight build. It reliea on the eldritch knight version of pact weapons and using the Lightning Jabber spear as a throwing weapon! I've surprisingly become my group's main damage dealer with that build and my damage has been really consistent for this point in the game!
i remember in nevrwinter nights (or even earlier in 2.5) we had a cleric/thief multiclass, i guess the trickery cleric would work there. Same with gnome illusionist and rogue, some races were locked with that multiclass but it made sense they were.
Earlier! There was a cleric/thief companion in original BG1 (Tiax) and it was based on 2nd edition of AD&D.
That was Dorna from the NWN expansion Shadows of Undrentide. She was most effective if you told her to stick to one or the other class.
clerics trickery domain in nwn 1 was quite strong since it gave access to improved invisibility.
@@VulcanLogic oh yeah , and her equivalent companion was barbarian/ sorcerer mix halforc.. and the next expansion also had companions with fun multiclasses but I digress
@@MichalGlowacz86 especially that he was a gnome.. never tried him, he came too late and was too much to handle, when I already had a solid group in both bad and good runs
Before I saw your list I predicted what it would be and the only one I missed was Eldritch Knight (it was sixth, as Arcane Trickster was fifth and they go hand in hand). The one I thought would be on the list, and it wasn’t, was Champion as it is the most boring subclass in the game and Battlemaster is so good.
I am on my third playthrough on tactician this time😊 please upload all those videos of your different playthroughs if you recorded them. Would love to watch them. ❤
Man I hated to what they did with mage hand. It is next to useless.
I disagree with you
I found it great. You can pull levers. Shove enemies. Leave potions on the ground and have mage hand throw ranged heals. Do the same with alchemists fire and make a autonomous grenade launcher. I found mage hand is very good at hiding during combat so it can survive a long time if positioned well
I respectfully disagree.
Agreed the once per short rest kills it
I can’t deny it’s useful but a cantrip with a long rest is just a class skill hidden the cantrip name. Playing an Arcane Trickster, it really sucks because one of your major class skill only buffs it marginally without giving more charges. Objectively, it is the worst 3rd level skill in the game because of the long rest restriction of Mage Hand. They need to make Mage Hand a first level spell or allows Arcane Trickster able to use Mage Hand again using a first level slot (even allows them to use it X times a day would work.)
His 8th playthrough.. I just finished my first 😂
I didn’t mind transmutation. I just use gale as a haste/ potion battery and sanctuary him.
8th playthrough, and he 100% all those games while running a TH-cam channel. I think he somehow mastered human cloning and there's around 10 of him to manage to do all that.
@@rodh1404 no doubt 😂
I'm at around 150 hours and about to go into the Thorm Mausoleum on my first play. I don't get to play enough.
@@TBrincefield it’s my favourite game of all time, the number of outcomes is pretty crazy.
Enjoy the journey 👍🏻
My second run through was as a gith Eldritch Knight.
Yes I may have gotten the +3 sword in Act 1.....the only spell I used at EK was Shield while hitting hard as he'll all the way through
If you know the encounter you're getting into, either on a 2nd+ playthrough or going back to another save, 2 levels into illusion wizard can be helpful.
Since it's version of minor illusion is also silent, you can use it to group up enemies. You then quickly go into turn-based mode and chuck your AoEs.
It's also helpful to get NPCs out of strong positions before you start combat.
A useful option for transmutation wizards... is camp apothecary. Not terrible if you expect tough fights.
- get a hireling Wizard from Withers and respec him into Transmutation, with high wisdom, and one level of rogue specialisation (for Medicine expertise)..
Even though they are not as useful as other classes/subclasses are, they can still be powerful and you can finish the game on tactician difficulty with them.
Means, if you like the RPG part of it, you can go for it. I finished the game on tactician as an Eldrich Knight.
In terms of see invisibility, even outside of the permanent effect it's pretty easy to cheese, since you can just hover your movement circle around to find where they went since it will block your movement, then you can just drop a aoe on them
I add about 3 levels of rogue into shadowheart and give her assasin, that IS if I want to make a dark justicar through certain game events, as divine poison is really useful at times
Transmutation Wizard is super useful. In camp. Hire the gnome from camp, max their Wisdom, take 3 lvls in bard (1 in rogue early) to get expertise in medicine, also Enhance Ability from lvl 3 bard. Now they always succeed the Medicine check with the buffs. At higher levels they have a Transmutation Stone to give either Resistance to one elemental damage or Proficiency in Constitution saves. That lasts entire day. Just have them stay in camp, craft your potions and give you that Transmutation Stone each day before retiring back to camp. Also serves with other utility spells like Remove Curse you can place on them and not waste your spell slots.
Multiclassing transmutation wizard for the experimental alchemy is pretty fun though. Multiclass with a wisdom class like cleric, druid or even ranger for endless potions.
Sad to hear that about the Illusion wizard. One of my favorite tabletop 5e moments was when my Storm sorcerer temporarily became a Shadow sorcerer. I picked up Subtle Spell, a bunch of illusion magic, and the next combat was one of the most fun I've ever had, and I didn't do a lick of damage myself. Illusionists just thrive on creativity, imagination, and misdirection, but the BG3 version of the spells are too narrow to do that, out of necessity. That's a shame, but also a good reason for someone who wants to do that to get into the tabletop game.
For Transmutation Wizard, i spec it on a Halfling Hireling and give all my alchemy stuff to it to make full use of it's perk to double my pot crafting
My first character was an Arcane Trickster Rogue. Can confirm, I really liked the concept of mixing spells with rogue combat. In practice it's pretty underwhelming. I feel like this is a mix of what it offers being fairly limited, and also the fact that rogue is so often boiled down to making sneak attacks. To this effect, things like Invisibility and Misty Step are great and can help you set up for sneak attacks. But then, half the time I was using those spells it was via gear and consumables. Not my own spell slots. So you can get a lot of what Arcane Trickster Rogue offers... With any other rogue.
But I also played the game on Tactician/Medium difficulty. And I didn't struggle in my first playthrough because my character was bad or anything. Out of combat, my character was fantastic utility. What made me struggle in combat was learning how to play the game.
Making Shart a life domain cleric is the first thing I do every time I find Withers
A hireling transmutation wizard is quite valuable. You keep them in camp, hire someone from withers, turn them into a wizard and choose the transformation subclass. have that character at the end of the day do all your alchemy. Then after your long rest have them cast a bunch of until long rest rituals like longstrider or detect thoughts add a level of bard and you can include speak with animals. This can be casted on all members of the camp so you can cast these spells on all four members of the party then just swap this minion with the actual companion you want to party with. The main reason why you pick transmutation is for the bonuses alchemy as it is the only bonus that can be exploited in the camp to benefit the party. Also level up not to make the best wizard but to get the best medicine so you can take a level in rogue as well or 3 levels in bard to get expertise. There is very little investment in this as hirelings have gear you can sell and it frees up learned spell of you wizard or known spells for your bard/sorc.
For Eldrich Knight Fighter the best part is probably being able to cast Shield as a reaction which raises your AC by 5 making it hard to get hit, at least my Lae'zel takes less damage then my Tav. Another good part is they have access to Longstrider which can be cast as Ritual and Enhance Leap, which may or may not be useful.
As a Wizard main the thing i would change about Transmutation Wizard subclass features is make the double potion proc so long as you have cast at least two level one transmutation spells, or one level two or higher transmutation spell, and i would make their free use transformation act like Druid Wildshape where they get a bunch of different forms with different benefits such as: the blue jay for flying, an iron golem for higher hp and ac, one of the four elemental types but only the minor version so as to give a boost to spells of that damage type, a phase spider for web-walking and the phase blink, and a crystal golem for increased power to all spells cast but at the expensive of being essentially one-shot by any attack thus emphasizing the use of defensive spells like mage armor and shield and globe of invulnerability.
I'm planning on giving my Karlach 4 levels of Eldritch Knight, since i've got her set up for throwing, and being able to throw any weapon and have it return to her just opens up more options rather than just being limited to those that have it natively.
Transmutation wizard makes for a great hireling! Give em 2 levels trasmutation wiz, the rest life cleric, and just have them make potions for you in camp, while giving you longstrider, protection from poison, and warding bond
For the eldritch knight and arcane trickster, I highly recommend getting one level of wizard. With one level of wizard and the arcane headband, you get at least 4 more spells, and can learn ANY wizard spell of any level as long as you have the spell slot that can take it. The limiting issue then becomes a lack of higher level spell slots. For the Trickery cleric, using the blessing of the trickster on a stealth character while someone else casts pass without a trace and another casts greater invisibility means you can be quite strong. In my case, I have a shadow monk/rogue that casts pass with out a trace, and Gale casts greater invisibility (would be better with a sorcerer extended cast) and shadow heart blessing of the trickster. The Monk spends the entire combat invisible.
I was going to say that if there's any fighter that goes on this list, it should be Champion, but Champion has some interesting interactions that make it better than tabletop. Ironically enough, Champion with scrolls could be a better Eldritch Knight, since Remarkable Athlete adds half your proficiency bonus to your initiative and the Improved Critical works with spells (and stacks with Spell Sniper). Lots of crit centered itemization available too, as well as equipment that grants you cantrips or spells
Think a way of open hand monk fighter cross class was the most fun play through I made
Damn 8 playthroughs and I haven’t even finished 1, go you tho man