Great video, it's no wonder why many IEIs can mistype as EIIs because their Ni leading and Fi demo make them understand people so well... I've noticed the same phenomenon with EIIs mistyped as IEIs because people may correlate their high emotionality and expressivity as high Fe.
Interesting, I am savior Ni/Fi. When I was younger trying to control how others perceived me was very much in top of mind and was crippling. Now more mature 30+ I could not care less how I am perceived. And the idea of "how I am perceived" does not even crosses my mind. It now repulses me when people worry about that. 180.
Interesting that you said you're 30+ rather than your actual age while stating that you don't care what others think of you 😁 (this is a joke that was too well set up for me not to take a stab at it :p) In all seriousness, glad you've matured past that obsession. I hear it only gets easier as you get older 😂
is not about getting easy with age, I think that is a cope. Is finding no mind. Happen at 24 and was a binary switch, not a gradual process. @@wearejungians
Is it only in Socionics that ISFJ has an Fi lead and ISFP has an Fi demonstrative? As far as I know ISFP's lead function is Fi and secondary function is Se. While ISFJ's lead function is Si and secondary function is Fe. INFJ and ISFJ actually has the same secondary functions which makes Fi their demonstrative function. But it was shown that ISFJ's and INFP's both have the same lead functions, and INFJ's and ISFJ's have demonstrative functions. Just for clarifications....
In Socionics there is no ISFJ or ISFP. They go by different labels altogether. The MBTI ISFJ goes by SEI (Sensing Ethical Introvert - SiFe) while the MBTI ISFP goes by ESI (Ethical Sensing Introvert - FiSe). The reason I (purposely) mislabeled the IxxJ and IxxP types is to encourage this sort of dialogue. The MBTI has largely been developed by the likes of Keirsey and his work with Plato's temperaments. The descriptions that the MBTI uses closely resemble the Socionics descriptions of the types and their functions. I felt that they work together as John Beebe's descriptions weren't as hashed out as Socionics to bring together a fuller picture of Type. If you ask me today what should be studied I'd lean towards recommending Socionics over the MBTI (though in my head they're the same thing). The MBTI has a long past behind it but at some point the direction was misguided which has caused a lot of confusion and mistyping. Here's the TL;DR, the label ISFJ or ISFP doesn't matter. As long as you're looking for the functions (SiFe, FiSe, etc...) you're heading in the right direction. People get too caught up on semantics which leads to a clashing of egos rather than a development of understanding. With that said, there is a right and wrong perspective of the functions themselves which the MBTI would be wise to assimilate into their framework but some in that camp are perhaps too stubborn to do so. Not my problem nor do I have a horse in the race. Just a messenger... Hope that clarifies :)
@@wearejungians I see. I was already leading to Jungian. And is already trying to understand people in this realm. I knew an ISFP and I see the functions of Fi and Se rather an Si and Fe. I watched for a short while your Se video and yeah - she is like that. She likes to collect things, however, she does it with Fi value. She only collects whatever it is would give her value or she can use to develop herself in the physical realm. If you observe her she may act like having an Fe parent, especially in telling people what they are doing right or wrong. I know though that it was an Fi hero based on her age and my own understading of Fi hero. I have also observed ISFJ's around me. Though I haven't still studied them that much, because I knew we will have some clashes. And yeah I have observed those clashes is only a result of my shadow not fully matured. To an Si Hero I am giving them a bad experience already by just being an INFP myself.
In a perfect world the INFP would be the IEI and the INFJ would be the EII. I decided to leave in the J/P error made by Myers towards the J/P error in the introverts to stimulate conversation around the error. The MBTI has the wrong view of Si, incorrectly associating it with time. The LII should also technically be an INTJ and the ILI an INTP if the logic is kept consistent. I, and some others, suspect it was because of Myers concerns about being seen as a judgemental type since INFPs are extremely judgemental with Fi but rather sensitive about the opinions others have towards them (as we all are). Just speculation but regardless of the labeling, the functions are what matters so as long as you understand someone is talking about an Fi dom, Si dom or Ni dom you should be fine to comprehend them. ------------- Comment from a subscriber (@Giraffe from Jungiantypes.com) that sums it up well: Basically, the definitions of the types (and respectively the cognitive functions) within the mbti community aren't all that rigid in their definitions making for some views of the types more difficult to parce out in reality. Gabriel (and some others in the community like Gulenko, Jack from World Socionics Society, and others) noticed that what leads an Artisan (xSxP types within Keirseys temperaments) to have an immense gift within the arts/mechanical aptitude (aka sensory adjustment) that they have is actually this lead sensation which is serviced by their creative/parent function. Ultimately making Socionics and Keirsey blend better together than the poorly defined limited Ti that Myers had for parcing that out. So the ISFJ ESI leading with Fi makes sense because A) they're a judging type so that fixes that issue and B) ISFJs are super defensive about the people they care about hence the term Guardian that both Keirsey AND Socionics gives them. They make assessments with Fi in the leading position and that is serviced by their Se which in Socionics is force sensation. Their Se serves their Fi making this the perfect descriptor for the type. The ISTJ is traditionally seen as a law/rule following fanatic who puts the rules above all else and enforces those rules. That's the TiSe in a similar vein. Ti is refinement of laws. That law is enforced with Se. It just works better and corrects some of the mistakes Myers made. Si is a function that focuses on bringing out the beauty of the objects potential which is sometimes referred to as world accepting (also called Ne-Si axis) in Socionics. Guess who does that better than anyone else? You guessed it, the ISFP. I've seen this phenomenon play out in real life with my own sister who I mildly believed to be an ISFJ (until I started questioning the Fi leading position function), only to realize that she didn't actually value Fi or have it predominantly in a stubborn position but rather used it to circumvent her own Fe preferences of bringing about an emotional experience for those around her from the artwork she was making. BAM shes an ISFP and the correction helped me truly have a better relationship with her. For that alone, I'm immensely grateful for the work these guys are doing because 12 of the 16 types don't have any issue with relating to the types in Typology. -------------
@@wearejungians Call me Panjungian, but I tend to give up altogether and simply correlate socionics stacks directly with Grant Stacks when it comes to MBTI, so LII would be INTP, which would be TiNe, and ILI would be INTJ, which would be NiTe, etc, because at least then things would still makes some sense for people who had just learnt about typing systems through MBTI...
@@wearejungians With regards to MBTI's view on Si, I think it's mostly due to misinterpretations of the function from people such as Kiersey that causes such confusion, but if we directly take MBTI's cognitive functions from Jungian archetypes, things should work just fine after a few "TOP 5 MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT XXXX" videos. Speaking of, maybe I should start making typology-related content...
Check out the full playlist where I explain the cognitive functions! th-cam.com/video/sjuc0kz_Ep0/w-d-xo.html
That helped clear up some confusion I had about Fi. Feeling is strange.
It do be weird :P
Great video, it's no wonder why many IEIs can mistype as EIIs because their Ni leading and Fi demo make them understand people so well...
I've noticed the same phenomenon with EIIs mistyped as IEIs because people may correlate their high emotionality and expressivity as high Fe.
Enjoyed the edits 🤣🤣 Thanks for the video
Glad you enjoyed em. Thanks for watching 👍
Interesting, I am savior Ni/Fi. When I was younger trying to control how others perceived me was very much in top of mind and was crippling. Now more mature 30+ I could not care less how I am perceived. And the idea of "how I am perceived" does not even crosses my mind. It now repulses me when people worry about that. 180.
Interesting that you said you're 30+ rather than your actual age while stating that you don't care what others think of you 😁 (this is a joke that was too well set up for me not to take a stab at it :p)
In all seriousness, glad you've matured past that obsession. I hear it only gets easier as you get older 😂
32 , I am a man. Age is not a shaming issue lol@@wearejungians
is not about getting easy with age, I think that is a cope. Is finding no mind. Happen at 24 and was a binary switch, not a gradual process. @@wearejungians
Is it only in Socionics that ISFJ has an Fi lead and ISFP has an Fi demonstrative? As far as I know ISFP's lead function is Fi and secondary function is Se. While ISFJ's lead function is Si and secondary function is Fe. INFJ and ISFJ actually has the same secondary functions which makes Fi their demonstrative function. But it was shown that ISFJ's and INFP's both have the same lead functions, and INFJ's and ISFJ's have demonstrative functions. Just for clarifications....
In Socionics there is no ISFJ or ISFP. They go by different labels altogether. The MBTI ISFJ goes by SEI (Sensing Ethical Introvert - SiFe) while the MBTI ISFP goes by ESI (Ethical Sensing Introvert - FiSe). The reason I (purposely) mislabeled the IxxJ and IxxP types is to encourage this sort of dialogue.
The MBTI has largely been developed by the likes of Keirsey and his work with Plato's temperaments. The descriptions that the MBTI uses closely resemble the Socionics descriptions of the types and their functions. I felt that they work together as John Beebe's descriptions weren't as hashed out as Socionics to bring together a fuller picture of Type. If you ask me today what should be studied I'd lean towards recommending Socionics over the MBTI (though in my head they're the same thing). The MBTI has a long past behind it but at some point the direction was misguided which has caused a lot of confusion and mistyping.
Here's the TL;DR, the label ISFJ or ISFP doesn't matter. As long as you're looking for the functions (SiFe, FiSe, etc...) you're heading in the right direction. People get too caught up on semantics which leads to a clashing of egos rather than a development of understanding. With that said, there is a right and wrong perspective of the functions themselves which the MBTI would be wise to assimilate into their framework but some in that camp are perhaps too stubborn to do so. Not my problem nor do I have a horse in the race. Just a messenger... Hope that clarifies :)
@@wearejungians I see. I was already leading to Jungian. And is already trying to understand people in this realm. I knew an ISFP and I see the functions of Fi and Se rather an Si and Fe. I watched for a short while your Se video and yeah - she is like that. She likes to collect things, however, she does it with Fi value. She only collects whatever it is would give her value or she can use to develop herself in the physical realm. If you observe her she may act like having an Fe parent, especially in telling people what they are doing right or wrong. I know though that it was an Fi hero based on her age and my own understading of Fi hero. I have also observed ISFJ's around me. Though I haven't still studied them that much, because I knew we will have some clashes. And yeah I have observed those clashes is only a result of my shadow not fully matured. To an Si Hero I am giving them a bad experience already by just being an INFP myself.
Wait, if EII is INFP and IEI is INFJ then shouldn't ESI be ISFP and SEI be ISFJ?
In a perfect world the INFP would be the IEI and the INFJ would be the EII. I decided to leave in the J/P error made by Myers towards the J/P error in the introverts to stimulate conversation around the error. The MBTI has the wrong view of Si, incorrectly associating it with time. The LII should also technically be an INTJ and the ILI an INTP if the logic is kept consistent. I, and some others, suspect it was because of Myers concerns about being seen as a judgemental type since INFPs are extremely judgemental with Fi but rather sensitive about the opinions others have towards them (as we all are). Just speculation but regardless of the labeling, the functions are what matters so as long as you understand someone is talking about an Fi dom, Si dom or Ni dom you should be fine to comprehend them.
-------------
Comment from a subscriber (@Giraffe from Jungiantypes.com) that sums it up well:
Basically, the definitions of the types (and respectively the cognitive functions) within the mbti community aren't all that rigid in their definitions making for some views of the types more difficult to parce out in reality. Gabriel (and some others in the community like Gulenko, Jack from World Socionics Society, and others) noticed that what leads an Artisan (xSxP types within Keirseys temperaments) to have an immense gift within the arts/mechanical aptitude (aka sensory adjustment) that they have is actually this lead sensation which is serviced by their creative/parent function. Ultimately making Socionics and Keirsey blend better together than the poorly defined limited Ti that Myers had for parcing that out.
So the ISFJ ESI leading with Fi makes sense because A) they're a judging type so that fixes that issue and B) ISFJs are super defensive about the people they care about hence the term Guardian that both Keirsey AND Socionics gives them. They make assessments with Fi in the leading position and that is serviced by their Se which in Socionics is force sensation. Their Se serves their Fi making this the perfect descriptor for the type.
The ISTJ is traditionally seen as a law/rule following fanatic who puts the rules above all else and enforces those rules. That's the TiSe in a similar vein. Ti is refinement of laws. That law is enforced with Se. It just works better and corrects some of the mistakes Myers made. Si is a function that focuses on bringing out the beauty of the objects potential which is sometimes referred to as world accepting (also called Ne-Si axis) in Socionics. Guess who does that better than anyone else? You guessed it, the ISFP. I've seen this phenomenon play out in real life with my own sister who I mildly believed to be an ISFJ (until I started questioning the Fi leading position function), only to realize that she didn't actually value Fi or have it predominantly in a stubborn position but rather used it to circumvent her own Fe preferences of bringing about an emotional experience for those around her from the artwork she was making. BAM shes an ISFP and the correction helped me truly have a better relationship with her. For that alone, I'm immensely grateful for the work these guys are doing because 12 of the 16 types don't have any issue with relating to the types in Typology.
-------------
@@wearejungians Call me Panjungian, but I tend to give up altogether and simply correlate socionics stacks directly with Grant Stacks when it comes to MBTI, so LII would be INTP, which would be TiNe, and ILI would be INTJ, which would be NiTe, etc, because at least then things would still makes some sense for people who had just learnt about typing systems through MBTI...
@@wearejungians With regards to MBTI's view on Si, I think it's mostly due to misinterpretations of the function from people such as Kiersey that causes such confusion, but if we directly take MBTI's cognitive functions from Jungian archetypes, things should work just fine after a few "TOP 5 MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT XXXX" videos.
Speaking of, maybe I should start making typology-related content...
I loled
Thanks I'm hilarious 😁
wait which system is this?
The one system to rule them all.
It's Socionics.