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@@autobotstarscream765 of course they're not hedgehogs, that's ridiculous. They're _obviously_ lizard-people from a subterranean city deep within the Earth's crust.
@@JosephShemelewskiNah, they're Italian plumbers that jump backwards up some stairs going "YAHOO!" over and over eventually cutting themselves off each jump until they go insanely fast into parallel universes... backwards.
Low% in Twilight Princess is like 73 hours? It's been forever since I saw the video but it was surprisingly interesting Edit: Just check, I'm way way off (it's 14 hours now lol)
@@PatrickArcato That's not how languages work. "Gaming" as an abbreviation for "playing a game" is now in widespread use, so it's just as correct as anything else.
Nice explanation, I didn't know some of this history! Minor correction: the cutscenes in Triforce% aren't prerendered, they're all in-engine, even the BotW characters at the end. Ironically, prerendered cutscenes would have been much harder to create, due to limited controller bandwidth.
@@CyranofromBergerac Saw that one. If you perform the glitch while crouching when the target is sitting down eating, you'll get credit for having a child, but they'll be stuck at the table, and the original parents will continue to care for and feed him.
@@jarrod752 It's a good exploit because you'll save money for the sports car to finish the midlife crisis dungeon early. Not necessary but people do it for the spirit of the speed run.
But it is. The intended way to beat Majora's Mask is to write code that warps you to the credits into RAM and then find some way to execute it. Everyone who has been playing the game, gathering masks, doing the dungeon and beating the final boss has been doing it wrong.
I love it because of the hidden religious Buddhist themes. It's like Link is thrown into a "Berseck" like world. Although less gritty on the surface, but everyone, even the world itself has its own hidden dark side behind the mask.
I like how that glitched debug menu feels appropriate to Majora's Mask atmosphere lol. Let's be honest though, this stuff isn't surprising given Majora's Mask rushed development cycle. But still crazy that players still had to work to purposely find these.
I dunno, I definitely don't go back to each dungeon on each Last Cycle to put all the Great Fairies back together, but they're all there at the end in the credits... IMO this implies that everything you did, on every cycle reset, will mash and layer over each other and create a very confusing but beneficial 3 days for the people involved. Like somehow the Bomb Shop's wares both got stolen (completing the Anju/Kafei sidequest) AND were not stolen (prompting the Curiosity Shop to sell you the All Night Mask instead). If Tatl is actually calling out to an actual Goddess of Time in the beginning of the game, I think she could do this. But yeah doing it all in the original three days would make her job much easier, haha.
yo thanks for bringing all the new discoveries to light! this route is much more fun than the old wii route. not only is there no rng, but you don’t even have to worry about fighting majora. easily a huge win-win for any%
If you can believe it, Majora's Mask actually has one of the faster 3D Zelda Glitchless categories (OoT is 30 min faster, although it doesn't beat all of the dungeons), as most of the others are quite a bit longer (not including botw or totk lol). And, the glitchless route is done in 1 three day cycle, not including the intro cycle obviously.
@@feli_heliHow does a glitchless OOT run not do all the dungeons? You literally have to. Cant get to adult without finishing Deku, DC, and Jabu. Cant get to Shadow without finishing Forest, Fire, and Water. Spirit and Shadow are required to get the Light Arrows and spawn the rainbow bridge. If you count the mini-dungeons, then you could say that, since Lens are pretty much useless after youve played the game enough times, but not considering mini-dungeons you still need every dungeon completed.
@@XenoWars It's possible they do things glitch free which skips chunks of the game, like standing on the very edge of a platform to skip like, 99% of a dungeon by using the hookshot. No glitches used at all, but because a post was *juuuuust* close enough to grab it becomes possible to skip things. And skipping 99% of a dungeon is basically not doing the dungeon at all, just going in and killing a boss.
@@XenoWarsthere are multiple different "glitchless" categories. The most restrictive glitchless category requires all dungeons beaten, but the less restrictive one only requires shadow and spirit temple because that's the criteria for the game to consider all the dungeons beaten and receive light arrows
@@Kosmicd12 For the unaware, the game doesn't check if you have all the medallions in order to let you enter Ganon's tower and complete the game, only the last 2 I'm pretty sure. Basically the game is like, "Well you need to have beaten the others to get here, need the long shot to get through this, etc. So if you have these two you must have done the other dungeons." Pokémon Emerald I think is sort of similar, the only badge required to pass the badge gate is the 6th, which is the only badge that can be otherwise skipped. So if you have the Fortree City badge the game will be like, "Well you have the only badge that you can miss so you must have gotten the others."
OOT and MM are unique where every time they discover a new trick, the run gets less and less interesting or fun to watch. It also disconnects from normal people because it just looks like you're cheating. It requires way too much explanation to say "no bro i'm just coding in the game". Glad other categories exist since Any% is trash.
@@pepsiboydystopia Ritz is right too. I know a tons of people who hate speedrunning cause the most popular games (Mostly OOT/MM/Mario 64) are just basicly abusing glitch to skip 98% of the gameplay in any%. Hell, just look at pokemon Red. the Any%, gameplay wise is doing exactly 1 step in your bedroom. the rest is just skipping the intro and coding into the game so you can skip to the end credits. There a reason no one run this category in the last 5 years.
Back when ace was found in oot, I hit a 4th place record. I highly appreciate this explanation, and seriously, I genuinely appreciate the passion behind the explanation because we had to struggle through trial and error to figure with out back in the day when me, lozoots and sva were competing for the wr in oot. Thank you for this video. I was waiting for see this happen in mm😊
Let me explain what is actually going on: There is a certain array of strings storing the name of each location you can soar to. There is also a certain fixed-length buffer used for storing the contents of the textbox on screen. When your soar index is out of bounds, the out of bounds string that it reads for the location name is extremely long (and slightly manipulable). This string gets copied to the textbox buffer, and because it's so long, it overflows past the end of that buffer. One of the variables that it overflows into triggers the debug menu when it has certain values.
@@ramiel555 damn, I'm still stuck at 42.01 years. Did you find any skips on the morning wood section? I tried using the wood chipper skip, but it's just not working.
Pinocchio Any% is crazy because you can go straight to Monstro from the puppet show guy and cut out Pleasure Island entirely, but Fox and Cat REFUSE to be skipped, even though we've had Jiminy skipped for YEARS.
I've been watching MM speedruns for a while, but this is the first time I've actually been able to understand what the runners were doing, lol. Great explanation, and huge props to the glitch hunters!
I highly recommend looking up Exodus's videos "Open Debug Menu with Song of Soaring" and the followup "Open Debug Menu with 63 Songs of Soaring". He and Fasch spent a long time working out the theory for this. In short, what is being done is that if your song of soaring index is sufficiently high, it will read the location name of where to soar from random other parts in memory. We are putting some particular values in particular addresses in the heap, to manipulate exactly what string gets used as the location name. If that string is very long, it will overflow into a variable that is responsible for opening the debug menu. The value that gets written to that variable has to be very specific for the debug menu to open, and that's the most important thing we are manipulating.
Great video! I really start to feel the beginning of a new SRM era. There is still so much potential, not just to make runs faster, but also to make more fun categories. People complain about skipping interesting parts of the game, and I agree. When there is a glitch that allows you to skip all the fun parts, people often want that glitch to be banned. But I think, instead of banning the glitch, why not just make a category with those fun parts being a hard requirement? E.g. All Masks SRM is honestly quite boring, you just use SRM to generate many items and to set flags for all the side quests. Almost no gameplay beside that. If we would simply ban setting those flags and generating items, it would be an amazing speedrun. SRM would still be used for wrong warping, kinda like in OoT's infamous F-Boots 100% route. I know there will always be people who hate SRM, but the amount of hate it gets right now is just not fair.
it kills me everytime fullgrowngaming is mentioned in these speedrun vids bc I'll always remember the guy as the one to get me into kingdom hearts a decade ago
Controversial opinion, but I feel like once arbitrary code execution has been discovered for a game, it should no longer be in Any% but it's own speedrun category called ACE%.
@destrierofdark_ Discoveries like SRM and ACE have ruined LOZ 'glitched' runs. It really should be lumped into it's own category when you rewrite how the game executes code vs how you manipulate glitches that already exist.
I understand almost nothing of wtf is happening in the screen and lost myself in the explanation... Its crazy how complex this shit is, that's absolutely nuts and amazing!
They're super exciting when they first happen, but the history of this one is completely insane since it was "we did the thing, but there's a new problem" and they set about solving that problem Every. Single. Time
credit warps being more or less fun to watch is kinda subjective. if you really value a big climactic fight at the end of a game, even in a speedrun, you're probably in the majority and I totally get it. OTOH I've watched people kill OOT Ganon a million times already--some variety in the diet is appreciated! AFAIK credits warps usually result in categories getting split, which is one of the great things about speedrunning--ultimately the rules are just for the sake of giving people a level playing field they can use to compare themselves to each other, so playing by some other set of rules isn't really a problem so long as everyone is honest about it (e.g. don't pass a TAS off as a normal run)
On the MM extensions leaderboard we have the category Defeat Majora. That one basically starts like the current Any% route, but then does a Moon Warp. The Majora fight is actually quite interesting because we are completely underequipped.
Credits wraps, ACE, and some other major glitches or skips are much more interesting to the runners of those particular games. It's very anticlimactic to watch someone do random actions for a bit with no perceived logic to it, then see the credits play, but if you're invested in that community and understand what's going on behind the scenes, it's more entertaining. That's a large part of why there are different categories to run, though.
Abyss, your explanations of the technical inner workings of different games and how glitches work within them is incredible. Thank you for making such videos and keeping me up to date on some of the new findings within the speedrun communities for some of my favorite retro titles.
Maybe a hot take, runs using srm/ace to skip 99% of the game are REALLY fun to watch.... once, then its kinda boring imo ( still impressive to pull off just boring to watch)
Not really a hot take, most people agree with you. A lot of speedrunners sometimes also agree with you; once something like this usually hits a game they do it once then move to another catogory, randomizers, or another game entirely.
"zed" is the most atrocious way to pronounce that letter, not only does it break the "ABC's" song as a kid since it destroys the rhyme at the end, but even the Mighty Morphing Power Rangers made sure to add and extra "d" to "Lord Zedd's" name to make him distinct from the garbage fire that is the letter "zed"
12:00 umm that was a new romhack at the time specifically debuted at that event under the guise of being an ACE showcase with "new discoveries", granted they did start the "prank" with some actual ACE exploits.
While credits warps are amusing, I do think it was a mistake that the speedrunning community as a whole decided that seeing the credits was the indicator of a completed game. Speedruns ending in final boss fights are just always more exciting, and the endgame of any run will always be boring credits warps.
I swear "Mr Cheese" is responsible for every cursed memory hack. I love it, I don't even watch tons of these videos and they're all from different games I feel like, but then I hear his name and recognize it!
I'm surprised you don't have more subs. I've recently stumbled on some of your songs through TH-cam's auto playlist and ended up liking all 3 that I listened to
when it comes to big skips I normally think it's cool, but ACE is just boring to me takes a lot of skill to do I'm sure, but just on a personal level it stops feeling like a proper speedrun as soon as ACE gets discovered for a game
I have a Smashbox which is basically a split layout and I absolutely love it. It's my favorite controller of all time and I use it for many games beyond fighting games.
Initially, I was gonna say something about my discontent with ACE and when I went to type it up, I saw plenty of other comments mention the same thing. I feel like I came to somewhat of an understanding? At least, of the source of the discontent. First of all, I want to say that I understand that speedrunners aren't running for my entertainment. It's for their own goals and self-satisfaction. To grow with and within their communities and take it one step beyond. I think this drive is what ultimately draws people to watch. On the flip side, I think what initially draws an audience is the game itself. Being an audience to an amazing speedrun, at least in my experience, is a way to re-live the games we love with fresh eyes. Seeing glitches and mechanics abused to soar(sometimes literally) over every obstacle as you walk down memory lane is nothing short of jaw-dropping spectacle. And this, i think, is where the disappointment lies. As an audience, we come for those moments of spectacle. Wrapped in nostalgia as someone incredibly knowledgeable in the game explains how each piece of the puzzle comes together, while they put it together in front of your eyes. There is something truly magical in that experience. ACE & SRM are not some great blight on speedrunning. They are incredible tools that allow speedrunners to do exactly what they've always been trying to do. Finish that damn game as fast as possible. It is not any less magnificent to behold than any other glitch or broken mechanic. Honestly, I enjoy learning about it all the same. However, I can't deny that from the outside looking in, it does feel like a major part of that spectacle is lost. I understand that there are many other categories. I think most people that strictly watch, however, are only going to see when major breakthroughs happen or some big event (GDQ) puts it on display. Yeah, that's on us as the audience. But I can't act like I don't understand when people are trying to articulate that..feeling of loss? feeling like it sucks? Kind of feels like growing up, in a sense. Which is why, I imagine, most of us escaped into these viewing pleasures. I'm rambling now. Glad to see the game get so thoroughly demolished, sad to see it go.
i like how this speedrun record of less than 17 min was gotta about a year after i replayed Majora's Mask (and OoT) using some glitches in my otherwise normal 100% playthrough then again the record will only go down from there so to be safe i complement the sub 16 min run.
I wasn't anticipating how visually jarring this video gets almost immediately having original 240p speed run footage interlaced with modern HD emulation/PC clips at random but I like the comparison
Use Project64 to do the Debug Menu Glitch. Don't use Ares64 as is or within BizHawk. It'll also crash on NSO. This may not be in the 3DS remake... or is it? We're love finding new discoveries. The Keaton Mask is a game changer.
This is literally what I imagined speedrunners would do first time I got introduced to good speedruns. I just imagined "Programing the game through the game to skip to the ending".
If anyone is considering buying from this sponsor, take it from me (someone who was gifted a trial period): the meals cost about $10/plate, the packaging and shipping makes a lot of waste, and you're almost certainly better off supporting your local restaurants and ordering out. That said, I can see why MM speedrunners developed a No Major Glitches category after these discoveries lmao. Yes, we found Moon Warp, but at what cost...
@Abyssoft i felt like the music was a bit louder than it usually is. it felt hard to focus on the content whilst listening to the music at the same time.
This is feedback I'm grateful for getting; I re-exported this video 6 times after trying to find the correct levels, I'll go another 3db lower next time
Is ACE its own category in speedrunning this game and Ocarina of Time yet? Last time I heard about speedrunning categories where ACE wasn't allowed, it was 'No Major Glitches'. Is ACE the only glitch considered a major glitch? Or is there a 'No ACE' category that still allows other glitches considered major glitches?
"Stale Reference Manipulation or SRM" somewhere out there is someone who is gonna be so confused that we're not talking about Supplier Relationship Management aka SNES save files.
Majoras mask is one of my favourite games of all time, I'm glad it's still interesting enough that people are finding tricks even now. The downside is that theres such little game left it's going to get super optimised and kill the speedrun.
These games are a relic of their time. 100% functional for a casual player, 100% broken beyond belief for those that dig deep. How anyone ever discovers these kinds of things baffles me, so thank you to everyone for making such an enjoyable game to watch and run that much more exciting. Can't wait to see what the next big thing is in a few years! MM and OoT never disappoint in that regard, there's always something new that can be discovered.
This is one of those developments that are impressive but sadly make the speed run way more boring by cutting out more and more gameplay. I'll still prefer all the temples
That's why theres other categories of the game. I too also find when ACE and such get introduced the run tends to be boring to me and i tend to focus on either randomizers (which still require knowing the game and various glitches) or other categories that don't require the glitch.
I'm curious where to draw the line between speed running a game and altering the game being played. More importantly, do we need to make such a distinction at all? Great video!
I'm just waiting on the day where we can remove the Deku mask on day 1. Once that happens MM speedruns will actually be fun to play and watch. It's such a shame because I think a lot of people agree that MM is a much more interesting game that OoT.
It's like those cartoons with doors hiding right behind other doors, except this time each one requires a different key hidden in a tiny space between each door. 😂
About index warp: "this was the best way to get around in early mm speed runs." I guess I'm old, but early mm speed runs would be 2010ish for me, not 2014.
Thanks to Factor75 for sponsoring today's video. Use my link to get 50% off your first Factor box and 20% off your next month of orders! strms.net/factor75_se7973799
Ok
theres a reason why factor sponsors random youtubers.
we get it we get it we get it we get it
hi
Well there Mr.Abyssoft Z you've done it again you've taken 19:42 of my life and I just wanted to say THANK YOU BEST TIME SPENT!!!! 👍😁👍
"one glitch has always evaded speedrunners, and that's becoming a human"
yes, they're quite inhuman
Speedrunners are hedgehogs #confirmed
@@autobotstarscream765 of course they're not hedgehogs, that's ridiculous. They're _obviously_ lizard-people from a subterranean city deep within the Earth's crust.
@@RabblesTheBinx But hedgehogs gotta go fast
@@JosephShemelewskiNah, they're Italian plumbers that jump backwards up some stairs going "YAHOO!" over and over eventually cutting themselves off each jump until they go insanely fast into parallel universes... backwards.
@@collinpersinger4809 Good point together they are the ultimate fast
Fact: The shorter a speedrun gets, the longer the explanation video becomes.
Wow you're totally right 😂
Unless it's Clue for the PC.
Low% in Twilight Princess is like 73 hours? It's been forever since I saw the video but it was surprisingly interesting
Edit: Just check, I'm way way off (it's 14 hours now lol)
Read that like samuel hayden talking about the icon of sin, it still works
Yin and Yang
"What are you trying to tell me? That I can fight Majora?" "No, Link. I'm telling you that when you're ready, you won't have to."
Fricken love the Matrix
For some reason my first thought was that this was a Kung Fu Panda quote
Awesome use of that quote
Thunderbolt recently smashed the alttp any% major glitches run with no new developments, just gaming
The verb is "to play", just like you don't "car a car". You people need to finish kindergarten before coming on TH-cam 😂
@@PatrickArcatointeresting take
@@PatrickArcato That's not how languages work. "Gaming" as an abbreviation for "playing a game" is now in widespread use, so it's just as correct as anything else.
@@NZsaltz In your gen z/alpha mind, but you're just embarrassing 🤷🏻♂️
@@PatrickArcatolanguage does evolve over time so I don’t know why your getting so defensive, seems you just don’t like the idea of being wrong
Nice explanation, I didn't know some of this history!
Minor correction: the cutscenes in Triforce% aren't prerendered, they're all in-engine, even the BotW characters at the end. Ironically, prerendered cutscenes would have been much harder to create, due to limited controller bandwidth.
Thanks for the correction, it's even more nuts that you and the others were able to do that in-engine
This is wild that it's an in-game custscene. Can't overstate how awesome of a feat this was to see
Speedruners when they have to wait 40 weeks for the birth of their child: "I'm sure there's a way to skip this."
Have you tried the adoption glitch?
Ah yes, Click
@@jarrod752 That's old now, they recently made a kidnapping loophole. Using this you can skip the puberty stage which is so annoying.
@@CyranofromBergerac Saw that one. If you perform the glitch while crouching when the target is sitting down eating, you'll get credit for having a child, but they'll be stuck at the table, and the original parents will continue to care for and feed him.
@@jarrod752 It's a good exploit because you'll save money for the sports car to finish the midlife crisis dungeon early. Not necessary but people do it for the spirit of the speed run.
Something tells me that this was never intended by the developers.
But it is. The intended way to beat Majora's Mask is to write code that warps you to the credits into RAM and then find some way to execute it. Everyone who has been playing the game, gathering masks, doing the dungeon and beating the final boss has been doing it wrong.
This is obviously a feature, not a bug or glitch
These speed runners need to come be mechanics
So they can speed run to fix real problems
I suppose you could say this speedrun uses un-nintended mechanics.
I’ll see myself out.
@@fastinradfordable But what will the glitch finders do? Find ACE in real life physics?
Majora's Mask is still incredibly polished for how much development time it had.
I love it because of the hidden religious Buddhist themes. It's like Link is thrown into a "Berseck" like world. Although less gritty on the surface, but everyone, even the world itself has its own hidden dark side behind the mask.
Meanwhile game devs today
I like how that glitched debug menu feels appropriate to Majora's Mask atmosphere lol.
Let's be honest though, this stuff isn't surprising given Majora's Mask rushed development cycle. But still crazy that players still had to work to purposely find these.
More importantly, because this run is only 1-cycle, it doesn't create split off, doomed timelines when you travel back to the past.
I dunno, I definitely don't go back to each dungeon on each Last Cycle to put all the Great Fairies back together, but they're all there at the end in the credits...
IMO this implies that everything you did, on every cycle reset, will mash and layer over each other and create a very confusing but beneficial 3 days for the people involved. Like somehow the Bomb Shop's wares both got stolen (completing the Anju/Kafei sidequest) AND were not stolen (prompting the Curiosity Shop to sell you the All Night Mask instead). If Tatl is actually calling out to an actual Goddess of Time in the beginning of the game, I think she could do this.
But yeah doing it all in the original three days would make her job much easier, haha.
yo thanks for bringing all the new discoveries to light! this route is much more fun than the old wii route. not only is there no rng, but you don’t even have to worry about fighting majora. easily a huge win-win for any%
No RNG? 😠 I lost a whole second the other run because a rupee from the keaton grass spawned jumping in a bad direction! /s
skill issue smh my head
For a game that operates on a time limit, the speedrun is surprisingly long. You'd think MM would be a more friendly game to glitchless speedrunning.
If you can believe it, Majora's Mask actually has one of the faster 3D Zelda Glitchless categories (OoT is 30 min faster, although it doesn't beat all of the dungeons), as most of the others are quite a bit longer (not including botw or totk lol). And, the glitchless route is done in 1 three day cycle, not including the intro cycle obviously.
@@feli_heliHow does a glitchless OOT run not do all the dungeons? You literally have to. Cant get to adult without finishing Deku, DC, and Jabu. Cant get to Shadow without finishing Forest, Fire, and Water. Spirit and Shadow are required to get the Light Arrows and spawn the rainbow bridge. If you count the mini-dungeons, then you could say that, since Lens are pretty much useless after youve played the game enough times, but not considering mini-dungeons you still need every dungeon completed.
@@XenoWars It's possible they do things glitch free which skips chunks of the game, like standing on the very edge of a platform to skip like, 99% of a dungeon by using the hookshot. No glitches used at all, but because a post was *juuuuust* close enough to grab it becomes possible to skip things. And skipping 99% of a dungeon is basically not doing the dungeon at all, just going in and killing a boss.
@@XenoWarsthere are multiple different "glitchless" categories. The most restrictive glitchless category requires all dungeons beaten, but the less restrictive one only requires shadow and spirit temple because that's the criteria for the game to consider all the dungeons beaten and receive light arrows
@@Kosmicd12 For the unaware, the game doesn't check if you have all the medallions in order to let you enter Ganon's tower and complete the game, only the last 2 I'm pretty sure. Basically the game is like, "Well you need to have beaten the others to get here, need the long shot to get through this, etc. So if you have these two you must have done the other dungeons."
Pokémon Emerald I think is sort of similar, the only badge required to pass the badge gate is the 6th, which is the only badge that can be otherwise skipped. So if you have the Fortree City badge the game will be like, "Well you have the only badge that you can miss so you must have gotten the others."
The more tricks are discovered, the less speedruns resemble playing the actual game.
OOT and MM are unique where every time they discover a new trick, the run gets less and less interesting or fun to watch. It also disconnects from normal people because it just looks like you're cheating. It requires way too much explanation to say "no bro i'm just coding in the game". Glad other categories exist since Any% is trash.
@@RitzStarr That's a lot of words to say speedrunning is above your paygrade.
@@pepsiboydystopia i think a lot of people agree with Ritz
Yeah it's not much fun to watch
@@pepsiboydystopia Ritz is right too. I know a tons of people who hate speedrunning cause the most popular games (Mostly OOT/MM/Mario 64) are just basicly abusing glitch to skip 98% of the gameplay in any%. Hell, just look at pokemon Red. the Any%, gameplay wise is doing exactly 1 step in your bedroom. the rest is just skipping the intro and coding into the game so you can skip to the end credits. There a reason no one run this category in the last 5 years.
Back when ace was found in oot, I hit a 4th place record. I highly appreciate this explanation, and seriously, I genuinely appreciate the passion behind the explanation because we had to struggle through trial and error to figure with out back in the day when me, lozoots and sva were competing for the wr in oot. Thank you for this video. I was waiting for see this happen in mm😊
17:00 I love how the music starts getting intense when he finally starts talking about human on the first day skip lol
Fun when descriptions are just advertising and links and nothing related to the video subject
Nobody reads them
4:53 if i'm not wrong, what's happening here is not an overflow, rather an out of bounds index
Isn't that basically the same thing?
They overflow the value so it reads an out of bounds index?
Wouldn't it be both? You get an out of bounds index, which gets garbage data, which is larger than 200b, causing an overflow
@@descuddlebat More or less, yeah.
Let me explain what is actually going on:
There is a certain array of strings storing the name of each location you can soar to.
There is also a certain fixed-length buffer used for storing the contents of the textbox on screen.
When your soar index is out of bounds, the out of bounds string that it reads for the location name is extremely long (and slightly manipulable). This string gets copied to the textbox buffer, and because it's so long, it overflows past the end of that buffer. One of the variables that it overflows into triggers the debug menu when it has certain values.
@@MrCheeze the code-goat!
I always respect any creator that turns that goes into their sponsor with a natural flow or a good joke, that was quality.
"But one glitch has always evaded speedrunners, becoming a human" ok im going for the Pinocchio Any% WR, what's everyones current PB?
not great, currently sitting at about 37.5 years
@@ramiel555 damn, I'm still stuck at 42.01 years. Did you find any skips on the morning wood section? I tried using the wood chipper skip, but it's just not working.
Pinocchio Any% is crazy because you can go straight to Monstro from the puppet show guy and cut out Pleasure Island entirely, but Fox and Cat REFUSE to be skipped, even though we've had Jiminy skipped for YEARS.
Oh my god the pointers give me Vietnam flashbacks of my C++ class in college.
No segfault in speedrunning
I've been watching MM speedruns for a while, but this is the first time I've actually been able to understand what the runners were doing, lol. Great explanation, and huge props to the glitch hunters!
4:12 for ad skip
W comment
The world ends in 3 days, what do you do?
Deku Link: I'll listen to an old lady tell me a couple of stories, and then dance with a scarecrow.
14:17 for the start of the video assuming you know what SRM and ACE are (which of course you do if you're enough of a nerd to follow Z64 speedrunning)
Sponsor block really keeps the flow going. I wish sponsor segments were at the end of the videos.
They usually pay more to not do that
5:25 i wish you could have gone into more detail here I was hyped to learn what they were messin with
I highly recommend looking up Exodus's videos "Open Debug Menu with Song of Soaring" and the followup "Open Debug Menu with 63 Songs of Soaring". He and Fasch spent a long time working out the theory for this.
In short, what is being done is that if your song of soaring index is sufficiently high, it will read the location name of where to soar from random other parts in memory.
We are putting some particular values in particular addresses in the heap, to manipulate exactly what string gets used as the location name.
If that string is very long, it will overflow into a variable that is responsible for opening the debug menu. The value that gets written to that variable has to be very specific for the debug menu to open, and that's the most important thing we are manipulating.
Great video! I really start to feel the beginning of a new SRM era. There is still so much potential, not just to make runs faster, but also to make more fun categories. People complain about skipping interesting parts of the game, and I agree. When there is a glitch that allows you to skip all the fun parts, people often want that glitch to be banned.
But I think, instead of banning the glitch, why not just make a category with those fun parts being a hard requirement? E.g. All Masks SRM is honestly quite boring, you just use SRM to generate many items and to set flags for all the side quests. Almost no gameplay beside that. If we would simply ban setting those flags and generating items, it would be an amazing speedrun. SRM would still be used for wrong warping, kinda like in OoT's infamous F-Boots 100% route. I know there will always be people who hate SRM, but the amount of hate it gets right now is just not fair.
it kills me everytime fullgrowngaming is mentioned in these speedrun vids bc I'll always remember the guy as the one to get me into kingdom hearts a decade ago
i was looking away when you said smashed to pieces and i KNEW u showed footage of the rock being blow up i rewinded and was right lmao
Controversial opinion, but I feel like once arbitrary code execution has been discovered for a game, it should no longer be in Any% but it's own speedrun category called ACE%.
glitchless is already a category for this exact reason.
@destrierofdark_ Discoveries like SRM and ACE have ruined LOZ 'glitched' runs. It really should be lumped into it's own category when you rewrite how the game executes code vs how you manipulate glitches that already exist.
@@1flashfire and ace/srm are just glitches. why not just propose a category yourself? or see if there is a "no major glitches" one.
@@1flashfire ACE and SRM are already in their own categories. This is a non-issue.
If it makes you feel better, No Major Glitches (NMG) categories now exist that can still do glitches, just not stuff like ACE
I understand almost nothing of wtf is happening in the screen and lost myself in the explanation...
Its crazy how complex this shit is, that's absolutely nuts and amazing!
Your segway into the advert totally tricked me lol.
I'm interested but I've never been a fan of credits warps in speed run sounds a lot less fun to watch
They're super exciting when they first happen, but the history of this one is completely insane since it was "we did the thing, but there's a new problem" and they set about solving that problem Every. Single. Time
credit warps being more or less fun to watch is kinda subjective. if you really value a big climactic fight at the end of a game, even in a speedrun, you're probably in the majority and I totally get it. OTOH I've watched people kill OOT Ganon a million times already--some variety in the diet is appreciated! AFAIK credits warps usually result in categories getting split, which is one of the great things about speedrunning--ultimately the rules are just for the sake of giving people a level playing field they can use to compare themselves to each other, so playing by some other set of rules isn't really a problem so long as everyone is honest about it (e.g. don't pass a TAS off as a normal run)
On the MM extensions leaderboard we have the category Defeat Majora. That one basically starts like the current Any% route, but then does a Moon Warp. The Majora fight is actually quite interesting because we are completely underequipped.
Credits wraps, ACE, and some other major glitches or skips are much more interesting to the runners of those particular games. It's very anticlimactic to watch someone do random actions for a bit with no perceived logic to it, then see the credits play, but if you're invested in that community and understand what's going on behind the scenes, it's more entertaining. That's a large part of why there are different categories to run, though.
What is a speedrun if not a "less fun to watch" playthrough of a game?
Abyss, your explanations of the technical inner workings of different games and how glitches work within them is incredible. Thank you for making such videos and keeping me up to date on some of the new findings within the speedrun communities for some of my favorite retro titles.
Hell yea, the next episode of Abyssoft Z!
Majora's Mask D-pad worked on gamecube though. I thoroughly remember using it regularly because my analog stick was fucked up.
Maybe a hot take, runs using srm/ace to skip 99% of the game are REALLY fun to watch.... once, then its kinda boring imo ( still impressive to pull off just boring to watch)
Yeah, that's why there are other categories to enjoy. And that's definitely not a hot take, most people feel the same (I'm in a similar boat)
Not really a hot take, most people agree with you. A lot of speedrunners sometimes also agree with you; once something like this usually hits a game they do it once then move to another catogory, randomizers, or another game entirely.
10:23 Deku guards are so tired of Link's crap that they launch him into the moon.
My boy here pronounces R like a Canadian but Z like an American. I hope wherever you are has some lovely weather.
"zed" is the most atrocious way to pronounce that letter, not only does it break the "ABC's" song as a kid since it destroys the rhyme at the end, but even the Mighty Morphing Power Rangers made sure to add and extra "d" to "Lord Zedd's" name to make him distinct from the garbage fire that is the letter "zed"
@@Abyssofti appreciate anyone who seeks to preserve the holy rhyme of the ABCs
12:00 umm that was a new romhack at the time specifically debuted at that event
under the guise of being an ACE showcase with "new discoveries", granted they did start
the "prank" with some actual ACE exploits.
While credits warps are amusing, I do think it was a mistake that the speedrunning community as a whole decided that seeing the credits was the indicator of a completed game. Speedruns ending in final boss fights are just always more exciting, and the endgame of any run will always be boring credits warps.
OH NO! What a terrible nightmare! I wonder what else could possibly go wrong.
Man I love stuff like this.
16:48 iscwhere the new stuff gets explained. Skip the history-filler-cycle and warp straight to the ending
I swear "Mr Cheese" is responsible for every cursed memory hack. I love it, I don't even watch tons of these videos and they're all from different games I feel like, but then I hear his name and recognize it!
I'm surprised you don't have more subs. I've recently stumbled on some of your songs through TH-cam's auto playlist and ended up liking all 3 that I listened to
PINOCCHIO: I wish I could become human
SPEEDRUNERS: get ready for this shit
when it comes to big skips I normally think it's cool, but ACE is just boring to me
takes a lot of skill to do I'm sure, but just on a personal level it stops feeling like a proper speedrun as soon as ACE gets discovered for a game
There are still categories that ban it
Next thing you know they'll find a way to credits warp from the first room after the starting cutscene lol
19:42 ABBAsoftZ
Nappa: "I get it!"
I have a Smashbox which is basically a split layout and I absolutely love it. It's my favorite controller of all time and I use it for many games beyond fighting games.
6:53 but thankfully, the owl statue wasn't just a little broken, it turns out, it was completely BUSTED.
*suspenseful music commences*
This video was crazy informative. Bless speedrunners and glitch hunters for breaking my favorite game so beautifully
Initially, I was gonna say something about my discontent with ACE and when I went to type it up, I saw plenty of other comments mention the same thing. I feel like I came to somewhat of an understanding? At least, of the source of the discontent.
First of all, I want to say that I understand that speedrunners aren't running for my entertainment. It's for their own goals and self-satisfaction. To grow with and within their communities and take it one step beyond. I think this drive is what ultimately draws people to watch. On the flip side, I think what initially draws an audience is the game itself. Being an audience to an amazing speedrun, at least in my experience, is a way to re-live the games we love with fresh eyes. Seeing glitches and mechanics abused to soar(sometimes literally) over every obstacle as you walk down memory lane is nothing short of jaw-dropping spectacle. And this, i think, is where the disappointment lies. As an audience, we come for those moments of spectacle. Wrapped in nostalgia as someone incredibly knowledgeable in the game explains how each piece of the puzzle comes together, while they put it together in front of your eyes. There is something truly magical in that experience.
ACE & SRM are not some great blight on speedrunning. They are incredible tools that allow speedrunners to do exactly what they've always been trying to do. Finish that damn game as fast as possible. It is not any less magnificent to behold than any other glitch or broken mechanic. Honestly, I enjoy learning about it all the same. However, I can't deny that from the outside looking in, it does feel like a major part of that spectacle is lost.
I understand that there are many other categories. I think most people that strictly watch, however, are only going to see when major breakthroughs happen or some big event (GDQ) puts it on display. Yeah, that's on us as the audience. But I can't act like I don't understand when people are trying to articulate that..feeling of loss? feeling like it sucks? Kind of feels like growing up, in a sense. Which is why, I imagine, most of us escaped into these viewing pleasures. I'm rambling now.
Glad to see the game get so thoroughly demolished, sad to see it go.
Its not going anywhere? There's always going to be people pushing the gsme in other ways. Randomizers, challenges, etc.
i like how this speedrun record of less than 17 min was gotta about a year after i replayed Majora's Mask (and OoT) using some glitches in my otherwise normal 100% playthrough
then again the record will only go down from there so to be safe i complement the sub 16 min run.
Interesting run & analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
I wasn't anticipating how visually jarring this video gets almost immediately having original 240p speed run footage interlaced with modern HD emulation/PC clips at random but I like the comparison
The ad segue's are getting better and better. Great vid overall too. A+
Use Project64 to do the Debug Menu Glitch. Don't use Ares64 as is or within BizHawk. It'll also crash on NSO. This may not be in the 3DS remake... or is it?
We're love finding new discoveries. The Keaton Mask is a game changer.
I saw exodus post the OoB deku spin, cool to see they got the roadblocks figured out.
I love when speedrunning glitches break my brain and remind us of the end of the matrix reloaded.
alright, that ad transition was fucking funny. i did not see that coming.
I'm still not sure why dangling pointer is called stale reference, but I guess I'm just too old
Maybe speedrunners have a weakness distinguishing & from *
This is literally what I imagined speedrunners would do first time I got introduced to good speedruns. I just imagined "Programing the game through the game to skip to the ending".
@Abyssoft we need more videos brotha!!!! such quality
Tomorrow.
@@Abyssoft 🙏🙏🙏🙏🍻
If anyone is considering buying from this sponsor, take it from me (someone who was gifted a trial period): the meals cost about $10/plate, the packaging and shipping makes a lot of waste, and you're almost certainly better off supporting your local restaurants and ordering out.
That said, I can see why MM speedrunners developed a No Major Glitches category after these discoveries lmao. Yes, we found Moon Warp, but at what cost...
its crazy speedrunners having to learn computer science to break records and finding glitches lol
Most games you would Skip the cutscenes to get through the game quicker
@Abyssoft i felt like the music was a bit louder than it usually is. it felt hard to focus on the content whilst listening to the music at the same time.
This is feedback I'm grateful for getting; I re-exported this video 6 times after trying to find the correct levels, I'll go another 3db lower next time
@@Abyssoft appreciate it🙏
Is ACE its own category in speedrunning this game and Ocarina of Time yet? Last time I heard about speedrunning categories where ACE wasn't allowed, it was 'No Major Glitches'. Is ACE the only glitch considered a major glitch? Or is there a 'No ACE' category that still allows other glitches considered major glitches?
5:03 that is NOT an overflow glitch, it’s a buffer overrun, sorry to disappoint
amazing video as always! Please do a OOT 100% history next
"Stale Reference Manipulation or SRM" somewhere out there is someone who is gonna be so confused that we're not talking about Supplier Relationship Management aka SNES save files.
Amazing video. 10/10 ad transition lol
6:15 and the 3rd issue was it was so boring that it nearly killed the category
Majoras mask is one of my favourite games of all time, I'm glad it's still interesting enough that people are finding tricks even now. The downside is that theres such little game left it's going to get super optimised and kill the speedrun.
I remember when index warp was found and now we're here, wow.
It's incredible these guys can break the game like this. I find this stuff fascinating to watch!
You used the best word so much, thanks for the great video!
Ooh, a new speedrun strat has been discovered!
**Stale reference manipulation!**
Oh. Nevermind.
I could barely follow that, but Sweet Christ am I impressed by it!
Why's that moon lookin' at me like that...?
Maybe the real cycle 1 were the lives we lived along the way 😊
These games are a relic of their time. 100% functional for a casual player, 100% broken beyond belief for those that dig deep. How anyone ever discovers these kinds of things baffles me, so thank you to everyone for making such an enjoyable game to watch and run that much more exciting. Can't wait to see what the next big thing is in a few years! MM and OoT never disappoint in that regard, there's always something new that can be discovered.
What's more baffling to me is that these games take 20+ years to find this stuff, meanwhile modern games get broken almost immediately.
Mr cheese found a new set up that all you need to know 😅 in Hyrule field.
I love these videos, thank you kind sir.
This is one of those developments that are impressive but sadly make the speed run way more boring by cutting out more and more gameplay. I'll still prefer all the temples
That's why theres other categories of the game. I too also find when ACE and such get introduced the run tends to be boring to me and i tend to focus on either randomizers (which still require knowing the game and various glitches) or other categories that don't require the glitch.
I'm curious where to draw the line between speed running a game and altering the game being played. More importantly, do we need to make such a distinction at all? Great video!
These runs where you start altering the games code are usually put under a different category than the historical any%
3:04 nice one!
I'm just waiting on the day where we can remove the Deku mask on day 1. Once that happens MM speedruns will actually be fun to play and watch. It's such a shame because I think a lot of people agree that MM is a much more interesting game that OoT.
Pretty dry climate too, right? So it was also a humidifier.
24 year old game gets new skip discovered
Anything’s possible, yall
4am kinda drunk an def high, was lost 5 minutes in yet watched it through . Magine i try an pull this off
ngl W advertisement... very smooth
Pinocchio can finally play Majora's Mask and become a real boy.
It's like those cartoons with doors hiding right behind other doors, except this time each one requires a different key hidden in a tiny space between each door. 😂
i remember everyone hating on the song of soaring glitch cause u had to use the wiiu and its kinda lame to play song of soaring 1000000000 times
There is one factual error. Factor was discovered by speedrunners much later.
About index warp: "this was the best way to get around in early mm speed runs."
I guess I'm old, but early mm speed runs would be 2010ish for me, not 2014.