This reminds me of Kim Dokja in "Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint" His whole schtick is that he knows how the whole thing is gonna go down, and that he has a power called the fourth wall. But instead of it being a physical separation, it's more for his psyche. The more he gets "immersed" in the story, the fourth wall can slowly weaken or crumble, and he starts actually feeling something for the characters of the novel he read that's now come to his life, characters started becoming his friend, mentor, he even became a sort of father figure to two of the characters in the manhwa. Fourth wall is his mental and emotional separation to save him the trouble of feeling emotions for characters, but because he's being immersed, that fourth wall can sometimes weaken. It's an amazing read honestly.
orv mention! it might be unrelated, but i also want to ad that his fourth wall "shakes" when his worlds collide. he gets so focused on the fact that he's in such a fictional world, that he can't mentally take it when any part of the world he knew before is prominent. this, i believe, can also be seen by the scene of kdj finding the truth of his childhood trauma.
There's a moment near the end of the exam arc which is done from Frieren's first-person perspective where she's gazing down upon a kneeling Fern as they calmly discuss strategy for their upcoming battle. From this perspective you can really feel the flow of affection and pride the typically phlegmatic elf has for her apprentice all just from minute gestures and framing. It somehow gave me the transitive properties of nostalgia for this fictional character whose life I've been following for the last 20-something episodes, it's not through a flashback or even the dialogue but just subtle perspective and animation choices. That moment's going to stick with me whenever I think about Frieren.
Yeah, there is something magical about sosou no frieren... I can't shake this feeling about himmel bro, it feels like he is alive all of this time and never been died even tho we saw his death at the very first episode.. every flashback with him just feels so alive and reassuring so nostalgic, I've never met or seen him before but why do I feel this way? And every time we were reminded that he is dead I always feel stuffy inside and Soo sad like I've lost something .. a very strange feeling towards a fictional character that had already been dead from the majority of the episode... I just love this anime so much.. the scene that hits me was when frieren wanted to see the sunrise with fren. She said the hero party was so sad when frieren not waking up and couldn't see it with them.. and when she finally saw it with fern it was just normal and so boring she thinks why would anyone doing it? But when she saw fern lights up she feels so happy about it.. 😢 for someone who always says no when someone is inviting me to a place that I think boring it hits me hard.. I've been reminded, that the moment where you were with someone you loved is what making it special
@@coffeelatte8616Yup, if you like/ love them just tag along and enjoy being with them enjoying whatever the uninteresting thing might be 😊😋 And yeah, being reminded every time that Himmel is actually gone always left this dull ache. Like I really want a 26 episode series of the Heroes Party 🥹 So incredibly amazing job to the mangaka for making the readers and viewers feel this way
I also want to mention in the next episode (I believe) where Fern was confident in her abilities to end clone-Frieren and then after a split second of the clone and blasting her away, we immediately switch to Fern's first person perspective as it wobbles and takes a closer towards her surroundings and finally clone Frieren, we immediately feel Fern's fear of the situation she was literally thrusted in. I was internally shivering in that scene.
Personally, I consider a break of the 4th wall to be an explicit acknowledgment by characters of the fact that they are in a fictional story, such as addressing the audience or making a joke out of the changing roles of set pieces in a stage play.
I see where you're coming from, but many fourth wall breaks of a character talking to an audience doesn't mean they believe or are admitting they are in a fictional story. For example, the Office has a character known for breaking the fourth wall by looking at the camera. Those scenes should not be considered him admitting that "what is happening is fiction." but instead as "what is happening is crazy, you seeing this?"
@@aeea3306 The Office is a mocumentary so the camera man is actually there in the room for the character to look at. The character is also aware they are being watched by an audience in the fiction. He's still breaking the fourth wall but it's contained in the fictional world.
i would argue in a play, a actor leaving the stage and walking below it /between the audience would count as "breaking the 4th wall" just physical instead with sound i would say the idea of this video goes for a similiar idea
@mindless2266 the entire point of the office is that canonically within the story they're being recorded right? They even give the one on one explanation bits to the camera for extra context don't they? When the literal plot is characters are aware of being recorded then of course looking into the camera isn't a 4th wall break for fucks sake 😂😅
I don’t know, this is just good immersive storytelling. Convey the emotion of a scene is a huge part of the story. Feeing what the characters are feeling isn’t breaching a 4th wall, it’s human empathy. The characters in the work don’t become more than what they are, they don’t become aware of anything beyond what they should. A 4th break can only happen from within. Our natural state as the audience establishes that we know beyond what the characters are aware of. The whole point of interacting with art is to experience emotions. Symphonies, operas, sculptures, paintings. When they evoke emotions it’s not a wall break. Feeling bad about tragic news stories isn’t a wall break. A 4th break exists regardless of the viewer, a sociopath or a narcissist would not be experiencing any of what you described.
what i understood from the video was that the wallbreak was actually the fact that the show managed to make us feel an uncomfortable feeling or the same tension the cgaracters are feeling using the resources it had already stablished, that would be frieren being the safe net and suddenly separate it from the other two so the viewer no longer has that feeling of "everything is gonna be fine no matter what happens cause we have frieren" the same way the character eperience it. To me it made a really good point and I understand why it called it a 4th wall break
@@ElPavoPavil so did “Serbian Film” but that’s not a 4th wall break Up, Howls moving Castle, old yeller… Emotionally evocative and immersive storytelling isnt a 4th wall break.
@@ElPavoPavil I mean no not really? Otherwise for example it would be a wallbreak when they sealed Gojo in JJK, which it straight up just isn't. What you're describing is good writing lol.
I have to agree with the two above. You feeling strong emotions because of a story is just the writer doing their job right. A 4th wall break is when a story expands beyond itself, into the realm of things it shouldn't know. It enforces our place as "the spectator" and it's place as "the spectated", which can actually detract from the viewer's imnersion and make them feel less. If anything, the examples outlined in the video are the opposite, a strengthening of the bond between reality and fiction we call "suspension of disbelief". You want a character that does both, technically? Flowey. Flowey the flower. Flowey is a living warning to the player to what happens once they stop caring. And even then, I'd hardly consider this a 4th wall break, more than a "4th wall push". It pushes, expands the realm of the story slowly, until we and the mechanics are part of it. It doesn't acknowledge that the we're "out here" and the world is "in there", it *dictates* that everything is "in there", like it or not.
I dissagree. Arguably, the complete elimination of the 4th wall could very well be the closest a story can feel to reality, it allows the two to merge into one. The lore of the video game franchise Destiny, specifically Destiny 2, is a real incredible example of this. Savathuns song and the Ahamkara seeking to ascend to a higher existence. Despite neither of them truly knowing it's existance, they can infer as such due to in-universe illogicalities. Example: the character Savathun gains power through deceit. Secretly, she would make false claims to herself no one else should know about (despite maybe a couple other characters). Millions of years later, during the events of the games, she would begin exoeriencing great influxes of power. We know this comes about due to ourselves having read what should be impossible knowledge, and as such she came to a similar hypothesis. The game uses many similar story telling methods to make the players feel as though the world of Destiny truly exists adjacent to our own, while still being a story almost entirely isolated from our universe.
The first episode when Frieren finally cries "If only I had taken time to get to know him better " 😭 That hit home. I am trying hard to learn how to be more social because 40 years of missing out on family and romantic connections is lonely. I never understood what I was missing until recently.
When he was yapping about mirrors and glass doors I was like these are just basic elements of writing that autors use to tell a story. Sometimes they were accidents
consider how rare immersion is now though? every new piece of media is entrenched in reality, every setting bogged down by real world expectations, and messages that exist apart from the characters, cheeky references to memes and real life topics. Its not often humans become immersed to that extent anymore. Even beloved creations that DID immerse and captivate, like avatar the last airbender, get homogenized and retconned like in the netflix version, and lose their immersive quality. its no wonder that this degree of immersion, this goal to make someone experience something, something primal and emotional, would become misconstrued as something unique or different, because its going extinct.
@@ayomafia1306I mean, yea. That's just good writing, it makes you immersed in the story. And breaking the 4th wall is just making the audience aware the 4th wall exists. This pey guy is basically just yapping about don't use "breaking the 4th wall trope"
Dude, love what you are doing. Feels like your breaking the fourth wall explaining what everybody was feeling when saw this anime the first time. Thanks for doing it 🎉
I definitely get what you're going for here, but breaking the wall is such a well-defined topic that making that the main comparison obfuscates your point. It's useful as a jumping off point to explain what the wall is, but a break pretty clearly requires an acknowledgement of the wall; what Frieren is doing in these episodes and what you're arguing are more an expansion of the wall to include the audience. The sliding glass door explanation almost gets there but it doesn't quite reach without some additional clarity, especially because both the original definition and what you're arguing are deeply rooted in empathy. Even though you try to focus on the experience, you keep trying to differentiate it from regular empathy without too concrete of an example of why empathy doesn't count as a worthy enough experience on its own. There are different levels to this 4th wall expansion, like you show with horror tropes, but the most straightforward comparison would be "whodunit" stories where the audience feels the same suspicions and excitement about revelations as the detective, not because they empathize with the detective but because the story is repeatedly inviting and rewarding that participation to where they're as much a part of the story as a character in it. That's why those mysteries can be so make or break for people, because as soon as they give the detective a conclusion the audience doesn't have a reasonable way of reaching, that invitation turns into a slap in the face because the 4th wall reappears suddenly and forcefully, regardless of how much the audience relates empathetically with the detective (which is why most of BBC's Sherlock episodes don't really work, it often fumbles both the empathy and the actual evidence elements). I definitely think this one could have spent a little more time in the oven but I'm glad you're able to get so much out of Frieren. I'm looking forward to seeing what other lenses you bring up as your analysis gets further and further into the show.
Yeah, telling a story in a way that the character’s emotions align with the viewer’s emotions is not breaking the fourth wall. In fact, using the term “fourth wall” at all here is misleading since it is almost exclusively used to refer to narrative self-awareness rather than the abstract concept of the separation between the story and reality. The story teller being aware that the story is a story is not the same as the story being aware that it itself is a story.
i believe it was a good analogy to make, just not explained properly in the video. Just imagine a cube, and the show ur watching is in that said cube. you feel bad or excited for the characters when certain things happen inside that cube. Suddenly, one of the characters break the 4th wall (the wall you were behind watching them) and now, there isn't a separation between you or the show, the 4th wall is broken, that character that broke that 4th wall is INVITING you to experience everything WITH them, making it now less about how you feel for the character, but how you feel WITH the character. Then you have that glass door analogy he gave with frieren, where instead of breaking that 4th wall so abruptly, the show slowly lets it dissipate until you start vividly feeling as if you're in that same situation with the characters in a subcouncious way, without any of the characters breaking that 4th wall, as if the story sucked you into the cube instead of breaking it's walls.
I normally don't watch analysis videos because they always feel repetitive - going over the same subjects and ideas but wording it in a different way. But the way that you explained this idea, the way you structured this video, brought up amazing studies and excellent points, I really appreciate it. Its amazing. Informative, and educated. I love how you brought up studies, discussed things with clarity. Thank you for this wonderful video essay. I'll be sure to check out your frieren series (:
that's honestly a really good point about these "OP protag" animes that I never really noticed, is that both the audience AND characters start to rely on the fact that the protag is so OP that they'll never die or never lose, so when you strip them of that, both of you FEEL that anxiety, even more so for the audience because of the chekov's gun philosophy, where we know they wouldn't take away the OP protag unless they really wanted to challenge the surrounding cast or if they needed an excuse to kill off a character. but I definitely felt that same anxiety you talked about when I watched those episodes. Like they build up stark and fern to be pretty freaking OP themselves, so I wasn't super worried, but now I think they more so did that just so they could throw them up against super powerful people from frieren's past, like that demon lord dude she sealed away, or the very demons in this episode. anyway, but yeah. really cool thing I never noticed. I think the only trope I don't like about this genre is just how writers use the OP protag to save characters at just the right moment. like, obviously, that's the point, and even when frieren does it, it's not super intrusive or jarring, but it still diminishes it a little bit where you're maybe thinking "ok, so the character lost and is about to die so is someone going to save them, or...?" and sure enough the OP protag comes in just in the nick of time to save them. It does detract from it, I feel, especially if they do the trope multiple times, cause then you're expecting it every time, even if they try to subvert it by throwing other characters in the mix to be the saviors. I feel like there's an engaging way you could essentially write the OP protag out of certain scenes without entirely forgetting about them, kind of like how frieren dealt with the "boss" while stark and fern had their own adversaries to take on, so even if frieren wanted to help them, she was tied up and busy, so that already throws the possibility of her saving them out the window, further raising the stakes.
I think you forgot to explain how the 4th wall disappeared in the two examples, Yeah I got that its an emotion in conjunction with the characters emotion rather than following what they feel, but you have to realize that what YOU felt watching it is not immediately obvious to anyone else. I was waiting for you to explain what you felt in conjunction with what the characters where feeling but it never happened...
what i understood from the video was that the wallbreak was actually the fact that the show managed to make us feel an uncomfortable feeling or the same tension the cgaracters are feeling using the resources it had already stablished, that would be frieren being the safe net and suddenly separate it from the other two so the viewer no longer has that feeling of "everything is gonna be fine no matter what happens cause we have frieren" the same way the character eperience it. To me it made a really good point and I understand why it called it a 4th wall break
@@ElPavoPavilI somewhat get that but it does feel a little strange because it's basically just regular story telling. it's done well for sure, but I'm not sure if I personally would consider it a fourth wall break. i think making the fourth wall disappear is distinct and an interesting topic but I do agree with other commenters that it could've used a bit more fleshing out
@@emmas1366 i think the issue of why it's not so clear is he never really explains what a "4th wall break" actually means. What i got from the video is the following: No 4th wall break = empathy for the fictional characters u see on a screen 4th wall break = characters in the show make "suddenly" make you aware (by agknowledging the audience for example) and therefore pulling you INTO the story in some way. 4th wall glass door/ dissapearing = you start to experience the same emotions WITH the fictional characters rather than just watching them experience it, as if you have also become part of the story (in other words emotionally invested) in a subconscious way, or in other words in a way where you don't notice yourself that you're already head deep into the story without necessarily BREAKING that 4th wall.
Thank you for this video, it was really eye opening on several levels. Your way of explaining tells a lot about the affection you have for this wonderful anime. I am sure that i will continue to enjoy watching each subsequent videos you make of this series.
As a classical musician, I do wanna say that the “Twelve tone technique” doesn’t refer to the western tuning system (so 12 notes). But to a compositional technique created by Arnold Schoenberg.
I was very much confused on why he was referring the Twelve tone technique as such when it was a system to actually counteract the established western notation system.
the sliding glass door is an interesting concept. I'm not sad because Shikamaru lost a loved one, and I know how that feels, but I was sad because *I* was sad that the character died
Now I think about it, I felt really anxious and worried when freiren wasn't around (when she was in jail), I instinctively thought something very bad was about to happen, I was conditioned to believe Freiren to be capable and to always be there to help out with stuff like when shit went down
This is probably not an example of what your talking about, but when Sein is being super supportive to Fern and Stark's "friendship" and then in the next shot, he's drunk and yelling "just date already!" I felt like I watched a character break the fourth wall by suddenly just getting me, I felt heard, like we were yelling together😂
Thanks so much for making this video, that's the most inspiration and braincandy I've gotten from 11 minutes for the idk past 5 or so years? There was so much not-4th-wall in there as well, rules of storytelling, learning outside the comfort zone, very clever and useful to look up further!
Understanding the idea of resolution in music, as soon as I heard the end of the piece you put in this video for microtonal music ("Paranola" by Zheanna Erose), the entire piece made sense and sounded significantly better.
This is a really interesting take! The relationship between the audience and the 4th wall is so fascinating, and the image of the 4th wall disappearing is very compelling. I especially like the “safety net” example. However, as many pointed out, the title is a bit misleading. More accurately, the terminology doesn’t seem to be used effectively. (Also sorry, this is going to be long ^^”) A lot of people mention that this is just immersion, and they are mostly correct. The very essence of immersion is becoming engrossed in the world they are engaging with, the inevitable result of making the 4th wall disappear. Never introducing the term “immersion” distracts from the point, which is frustrating because you’re right! Frieren is a masterclass on immersion and making the 4th wall disappear through empathy!! The issue stems from an expected “4th wall disappearing is better than 4th wall breaks” argument. If I’m understanding correctly, the core idea is more that making the 4th wall disappear is one of the most subtle yet impactful ways to facilitate immersion. This immersion manifests as a deep personal connection with the characters or story that the creator can then utilize to evoke emotion. And again, I agree completely! But the inclusion of 4th wall breaks feels unnecessary. It does make me wonder about the different ways the 4th wall can affect immersion. How would the tone change if there were 4th wall breaks in Frieren? If we were acknowledged by the characters, would it loose the alien feeling we have as total outsiders watching the story unfold? Does it being a sliding glass door stop us from seeing our reflection like a mirror? You’ve definitely given much to think about!
Thank you for the video I look forward to this series, learning more about a show I love from the perspective and experience of others who feel the same way about the show is nice.
i just watched all of frieren, i know i am quite late but at the time of hearing about its existence i wasnt in the mood to watch any anime because i was a little burnt out. I had kept hearing so much praise for it that i wanted to make sure when i watched it i wouldnt have a bad experience/have outlying factors affect how i felt when watching. This was probably one of the best decisions I have ever made. This show made me feel so many emotions and made me learn so much about how to view memories. I'm just glad that I wasn't disappointed. That being said I'm surprised I've heard so much about it when the show is so recently released. Kinda makes me sad that I will have to wait ages until the story continues but, as one of the few remaining sane Hollowknight fans I no longer find waiting an issue.
A lot of people in the comments don't really seem to understand what's being discussed here. It's the difference between feeling bad because someone else feels bad, aka empathy, and feeling bad because you are the one hurt. It's the difference between feeling sad because your friend's dog died versus feeling sad because your dog died. There's really only one word that needs to be said to establish the difference between "Watching something happen to someone else" and "It happening to you" is the word "Kurama."
I mean...the fourth wall is the wall consisting of audience separation. A term created with theater in mind. You're looking at a stage. The wall in the back, the two on the side and the 4th, invisible wall between audience and stage. Breaking the 4th wall is anything that consists of moving from strictly a thing the audience interacting with via viewing, to a thing where the thing the audience is viewing is interacting with them, typically via acknowledgement. Which is why a 4th wall break means what it means.
Damn, i cant remember the last time i have watched a video like this. i instinctively understand every concept you are presenting but cannot comprehend the individual steps. My perception of the world around me has grown along the very boundary i would have been lost by. Amazing video.
I love your videos on Frieren, as it allows me to take one of my favorite shows and truly experience it in a completely different light. Especially with your truly inspired takes and in depth analysis on the topic. Thank you and please keep up the quality in editing and analysis!
You outdone yourself yet again man. Frieren is definitely one of the most thought provoking series out there. But it's hard to put those feelings in a essay video Great video as always
i think a example of this is a scene in that episode of bluey where the mom is going through post-partum depression, and another mom tries talking to her, the camera is placed where blueys mom would be so the other character looks into the camera n says “ur doing great”
Ok, I fell into this video not knowing this channel and I still haven't watched Frieren. Firstly, what an absolute masterpiece of a video (btw I would love to know the name of every single music you used in this video, this soundtrack you made is simply so good). Secondly, I will imediately start watching this anime, the way you talked about it and the frames of the episodes you showed completely amazed me!
These series are like university classes. Hopefully they will continue for 3-4 years until s2 goes out. I can't imagine my days without Frieren and Pey's videos at this point.
this reminds me of demonslayers inital training and the eventual conclusion of tanjiro finally cutting the dense rock he was tasked with. the entire establishment of the spirits helping him, teaching him and the lead up into that dual. but then baiting both the audiance and tanjiro that this isnt a teaching dual, but the singular push to give it a proper all on the stone by hidding it from him till the after math of what he just did. the entire realization of what just happened is what gave me such a intrest in that show and why i knew at that moment it was going to be a intresting one.
background music is top notch and the amount of info in video is so high! Pleasure to watch these! Regarding character growth and safety net - maybe i am too blunt, but when Frieren tells Stark and Fern that they are strong enough to deal with demons, i believed her experience and had no worries. Stark even understood that his opponent was very manageable :D
great stuff! I usually watch yt vids in 2x but in yours i just had to slow it down to normal speed just to get the feels. damn this stuff is GREAT!. keep it up, also music choice is fireee
Oooh i get it I was watching Sonny Boy and was crying cuz i felt the same what Nagaro felt It also happened when i was watching Hunter with Mads Mikkelsen in it It is amazing how some stories cause such an impact on me. Gotta be one of the best feelings ever, i love it
I do think another amazing example of making the 4th wall disappear happens in the episode "Baby Race" from Bluey. When the puddle momma tells Chilli that she's doing a good job, the camera faces her, making it seem like she's talking to the audience. Although she isn't really, a lot of viewers commented on how it was so reassuring to hear that.
nice quick and clean, I like this. Not a fan of friedren ngl, too slow… for me at the moment. I started it and it’s amazing just life, nowadays and especially mine is super hecktic. Thank you for listening to my rant which was caused by this amazing video which just made me stop. In the middle of my day
For the mentioned "feelings of danger" when Frieren left, I am reminded of the "Trope Talk: Tone Armor" episode of the "Overly Sarcastic Productions" TH-cam channel.
yooo hello. I am a author in training (I am really dumb but I like writing stories). I really enjoyed this video and watching you talk about different concepts and everything inspires me to want to learn more. Something I struggle with is overall story telling rules or norms in a story. I don't exactly know what I am trying to say but I feel like watching your videos highkey increases my knowledge a bit. W video
If you want to see mastery of making the fourth wall disappear, watch Mayoi Hell Part 1 of The Monogatari Series. Our main character Araragi, gets sent to the bottom layer of hell for being a pseudo-vampire. While Mayoi, the spirit of the lost cow, is tasked with leading him back to reality. While doing so, they both reflect on Araragi's regrets and how his past actions have lead him to such a dark place: Araragi: "It's difficult to do the right thing. Most people are more willing to correct a mistake than do the right thing, right? Because correcting a mistake makes people _feel_ like they are doing the right thing. If you keep correcting mistakes, crushing them one by one, would it result in a pure white kind of right? If I had to guess, it would be a pitch-black kind of right." Mayoi: "But if you go that route, you won't obtain what you really want. Because it is based on the premise that someone else is making the evaluation. That way, you will only receive what others give you. Of course, I am not saying that's a bad thing. If, like you, someone sought something beyond their reach, or something they don't deserve, such a method would prove to be impossible. The only thing you can do is succeed, right?" Mayoi, as a fictional character, is directly talking to the audience, but she is doing it THROUGH Araragi in a completely transparent way. Mayoi is saying that you, as the audience member, have attachments to Araragi, and thus feel emotional about his situation, and have judgements about his actions. Mayoi is telling Araragi that he does not have to live up to your expectations, as there is an infinite gulf that cannot be crossed between the viewer and himself (paradoxical, I know). Consequently, Araragi should just do what he feels is the 'right thing', regardless of what you, as an audience member, may think of him. This is the only sure-fire method he has of succeeding and finding fulfillment inside of the story for himself. I think this makes the fourth wall disappear as it makes you feel as though you were harshly judging Araragi in the same way he was harshly judging himself. It points out that you should be as kind to yourself as what you are to others. It makes you reflect on your own mistakes in the same way Araragi is. You end up sharing this experience with Araragi in a very meta way.
God this was such a good series. That lesson for Fern and Stark felt so personal to me. It took me forever to learn it, and now I'm trying to teach it. By the time you feel ready for a challenge, you've already wasted too much time. Trust in your mentors when they say you are ready.
i think the most common way we find the fourth wall "disappearing" is in psychological horror games/anime. you feel the feelings alongside the characters, whether it be fear, emotional pain, happiness, etc. possibly because theyre meant to do that, but i find it as a good example
There's a good hour long essay to be made about how stellar the production of Frieren was, I hope we see that into the next season (whenever that gets confirmed) I've recently gotten back into writing and watching your videos helps me get really introspective about the process, you have once again highlighted simple moments and made them thinkers
8:25 Best example I can give you is from "Sayonara Eri" Fatsuki Fojimoto is a master of subtlety, he can break the forth wall to bring he's work to reality, but at the same time keeping it with a pinch of fantasy
A few of those science concepts you mentioned related to perception of beauty/aesthetics I believe are coming from the field of Evolutionary Psychology. Things like that facial symmetry or left-side preference. I it think it would be good to know that evo psych has a few issues: 1) It is a small field with a very prevalent problem of confirmation bias. Conclusions are often reached before studies begin toward proving a specific end. 2) The field doesn't put itself to the scrutiny of the rest of psychology, nor to the study of genes/evolution. Which is a major problem with a field supposedly combining the two. 3) Evo Psych has a major heteronormative bias / patriarchal bias, often trying to prove things about sexual attraction toward the end of invalidating lifestyles outside of the nuclear family or polygamy. | A good video to watch to take a more critical approach to the field, rather then a more charitable approach, would be Munecat's recent video essay. She also provides sources that can be your jumping off point. Secondly, with regards to this embodied emotion concept versus a rational/mind emotion, I would also caution away from holding cartesian dualism as an axiom for your analysis, especially when using psychology as a lens for analysis of story. Marvin Minksy, "The mind is what the brain does." Start by looking into Cognitive Label Theory for emotion, which describes both bottom-up emotion (starting with inherent sensation then receiving cognitive label), and top-down emotion (having a thought/realization about how you feel and from there creating the sensation of the emotion in your body). It is very similar to what you described here, but the mind is never treated as separate from the body. The brain is mind-ing. Though, if you do what to maintain the cartesian dualism, i think it would be prudent to be direct in your writing that you are engaging in a discussion of the spiritual/immaterial. That is equally as valid a line of inquiry as psychology. When dealing with the sciences, though, I stick to materialist lenses.
He did it... again. I watched all of the released episodes of Frieren: Beyond Journey's End and, like many, many others, thoroughly enjoyed it. Pey breaks down elements of the story, expounds on them, and shares a unique perspective of *why* we liked it, with a different voice, and amazing production value. It's like getting to enjoy a fantastic series again with kindred friends.
Hmm I’m not sure I’d say that emphasizing with characters to the point that you feel like you’re experiencing it yourself is what breaking the 4th wall means
i dont think thats what he's saying. he's saying breaking the fourth wall can mean when a story uses a character's reaction to have the audience feel something else alongside it.
@@timcrnkovich4326 I think he's saying something similar. Pey's video feels to me like praise for "immersion" and "limited pov's" in writing. If you have been following a character for long enough and are sufficiently familiar with their status quo, are presented mostly the same information as the character, and follow their reactions to said information, then developments in the story that shock said character (should) have the same effect on the audience. Empathy is a good way to describe it, although it's more than just "feeling what the characters feel," because the audience has actually been put in the same situation as the character.
@@timcrnkovich4326 yeah I understand the story using a characters reaction to have the audience feel something alongside it. I just think that referring to that as “breaking the fourth wall” is misconstruing the term
I feel like "when frieren is not there" unease thing is fairly common in shows and movies where we are conditioned to realy on certain chracters and percieve them as safety net. Its easy to miss untill you start pattern recognizing. Ive been watching peaky blinders recently and it comes to mind. Thomas shelby being the main character and the mind behind everything we are made to think everything will be all right however much stuff is going down when hes there. There is unease when he is not around and something happens though the other characters are shown capable like polly shelby. Even when things arent going well i found myself thinking its alright thomas shelby is there. But there are moments i feel dread where its shown even though tommy is there things arent getting fixed but getting worse. Though it gets resolved somehow, im feeling what the side characters are feeling. Same goes for jujutsu kaisen when gojo is there and isnt there and gets boxed. Happens with any character who is shown to be the safety net with good storytelling. It is particularly strong when that character is the main character.
You managed to make me feel emotional even tho it's "just an explanatory video", I know it's kinda more than that but I just wanted to let you know that your videos are also able to reach some people's feelings C: well done o7
I stopped at 4:27, looks like a lot of people did as it's the most replayed section, Listened to the first microtonal music on google which was from someone named Gregoire Blanc music was nice, though it's certainly more of a tone I would use for an explorative type of situation I'd be putting myself into, rather than a music I would regularly listen to recreationally to elicit any specific mood, though I'm certain that there are MANY manners and I would say that it's interesting to check out at some point. This is I think the third video about this topic I've seen lately (demons aren't evil and over powered done right) and I'm not much of an anime watcher, more I like reading and when people cover deep character explorations One of the videos I recently watched was about Iroh and Masculinity. anyways, I enjoy your stuff, and yeah, I'll give you a sub for the good stuff, take care yeah?
This is a fascinating concept I've never heard of or thought of, but feels so obvious now that I think of it. What happens during a 4th wall break? The character and the viewer share a moment; they're reacting to the same thing, experiencing the world in the same way. A jumpscare does the same thing, you're feeling the same fear/startle as the character, from the same source, at the same time. You're sharing a moment together.
This is an interesting concept. Instead of the characters breaking the fourth wall, you break it instead by being "there" alongside them. Though I can't say I felt the same as you in this instance. Especially in regards to experiencing the leap of faith from Fern and Stark's perspective. Instead, I guess I empathized more with Frieren, or at least I trusted her assessment of the situation and their chances so I didn't feel any apprehension over them fighting without her protection. I guess as far as "breaking the fourth wall" goes, I may have experienced it as Frieren did instead where she is confident in them and is proud of their success in the aftermath because that's how I felt watching it haha.
I've actually encountered microtonal music somewhere before, though I can't recall exactly where, but for me, it's evoking many mixed feeling all at once. Like... seeing a sunset, and feeling the beauty of that sunset, but also being aware of a running river and birds fluttering across the glade all at the same time. Funny enough, I actually tend to have a preference of asymmetry in designs, as long as they still have some form of visual balance. I love working them into my own designs, but I also understand that makes them harder for other people to draw, and animating such a thing is even more taxing when you can't just 'flip it' to get the same image from either side. I think there are some RPG games that are wonderful at doing this. One experience in particular that comes to mind was from Final Fantasy 14's Endwalker expansion. When a foe you had to deal with over several expansions, one who was well established, and you knew was just the right combination of cunning and cold-blooded enough to go to any lengths to get your attention suddenly yanks you away without warning, and no one knowing you are gone. The moment of shock started to settle in, waking to find your own body staring back at you from across the table, with an expression you would never wear, and realizing, he's in it. That this murderous mad-man in your flesh, your body honed through countless trials, again and again, has challenged you to stop him, has a head start, and just left to find your friends. And you, the savior of more than one world, are left with nothing more than the diminished body of an average soldier. I felt a very real stress response, a very real sense of fear as I raced through that ruined city as fast as I dared, frustrated every time I had to stop to avoid being spotted by enemies that would bring more to bear against me, but taking breaths and trying to remind myself I could not risk fighting them like this. I was panicked when things would not go right, when I could not find the fuel I needed for a vehicle to get through a barricade, fearing what would happen if I did not make it in time, and constantly aware the clock was ticking down. And when that explosion went off, and all I could do was crawl, stunned, injured and barely able to manage that much, that moment became my entire focus. It was right there...the end was in sight... I would make it in time to warn them...! Even years later, that whole sequence stuck with me profoundly, and it was no doubt because they had not just broken the fourth wall, but entirely removed it.
Only other show I've seen this in is Jobless Reincarnation. Unlike most shows, the writing centers instead not off your eyes and ears but your mind. The writing, tone, atmosphere, etc. are done in such a way that it was written from Rudeus's own perspective, and by extension your own. My favorite example of this is the Doldia village arc to the Orstead encounter. When Rudy gets captured, despite facing execution (not that they could if they tried but whatever), he's extremely light hearted about it. It feels like a game to him, and like a game it wrapped up neatly defeating the boss and saving the day. It made Rudy feel like he had plot armor, and HE himself felt like he had plot armor too. Then when he met Orstead, all that was ripped away in the most violent fashion. Ruijerd, who Rudy considered to be an invincible warrior screamed for them to run for their lives before getting the shit beat out of him himself. Rudy panicking as he saw his own chest cavity open up. Eris screaming and crying at the death of Rudy, the girl he promised to protect. Etc. It feels so desperately hopeless that it turns a knot in your stomach. And it's only able to do that to such an extent because throughout the show, it systematically gave you and Rudeus that security. A thing I noticed was way early on in the show, Rudeus having undergone little development treats his new life like a game. He thinks of it like a game. He makes references to his silent casting as "OP cheat skills" and shit like that. When he gets teleported, it feels to him like he's off on a side quest. Another reason it didn't even occur to him that other people got teleported. The Orstead encounter is the turning point that makes him realize "Holy fuck! This isn't a game, this is real. I have a life here that I care about, more than anything else." This is also the point at which he stops making comparisons to videogames. His new second life, the people he cares about, and situations that he can't wriggle out of. The gravity of these things becomes SO much more real. This only feels that way because they intentionally made it seem 'not real' to begin with. And thus concludes my rant
Th first time I expierenced the breaking of "the 4th Wall" was in the movie "The Neverending Story". As a kid I thougt it was very interesting and unique, without knowing it was a deliberate storytelling device.
I've always watched anime Through the Method You're Talking About I Watch by experiencing it. It's why I love anime so much because most anime is animated like tthis form my perspective and some movies are made like this
also, honestly i've been putting off subbing to this channel because i tend to forget about videos in my sub feed, but "prioritize" videos in my recommended (dumb, i know, i've been trying to fix that about me ;_; ), as much as i've loved all the previous videos in this series however, this video had me not only subbing, but turning notifs on (something i RARELY ever do), just so that i don't lose your videos in my sub feed😁
Hyperdimension Neptunia Mk II did this marvelously with one of its optional endings. It's emotionally scarred a good portion of Neptunia's fanbase, and at the same time cemented the series as an absolute classic in the minds of many who've experienced it. All you have to do is say "Gehaburn" around a fan and those wounds reopen. And that was the second game they created, back in 2011, while they've had a few chances to do similar things with their other games.
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
This reminds me of Kim Dokja in "Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint"
His whole schtick is that he knows how the whole thing is gonna go down, and that he has a power called the fourth wall. But instead of it being a physical separation, it's more for his psyche.
The more he gets "immersed" in the story, the fourth wall can slowly weaken or crumble, and he starts actually feeling something for the characters of the novel he read that's now come to his life, characters started becoming his friend, mentor, he even became a sort of father figure to two of the characters in the manhwa.
Fourth wall is his mental and emotional separation to save him the trouble of feeling emotions for characters, but because he's being immersed, that fourth wall can sometimes weaken. It's an amazing read honestly.
GOATED NOVEL/MANHWA HONESTLY
@@hitman_flam3319 truly, one of the best!
ORV mentioned, huge W
orv mention! it might be unrelated, but i also want to ad that his fourth wall "shakes" when his worlds collide. he gets so focused on the fact that he's in such a fictional world, that he can't mentally take it when any part of the world he knew before is prominent.
this, i believe, can also be seen by the scene of kdj finding the truth of his childhood trauma.
It's getting an anime adaptation th-cam.com/video/jzIGTLlqeRE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Q0C3-tmQsCAsT2U2
I'm a simple man, i see a video from pey talks frieren, i click
Same
Bro same
they are just that great
I look forward to getting a new video each week.
i am a surfer 🏄♂️
i need help medically 🏥
There's a moment near the end of the exam arc which is done from Frieren's first-person perspective where she's gazing down upon a kneeling Fern as they calmly discuss strategy for their upcoming battle. From this perspective you can really feel the flow of affection and pride the typically phlegmatic elf has for her apprentice all just from minute gestures and framing. It somehow gave me the transitive properties of nostalgia for this fictional character whose life I've been following for the last 20-something episodes, it's not through a flashback or even the dialogue but just subtle perspective and animation choices.
That moment's going to stick with me whenever I think about Frieren.
Which episode was that, cant find the specific scence T-T
@@carterReeves918 Episode 26 just before the final clash against the clone.
Yeah, there is something magical about sosou no frieren... I can't shake this feeling about himmel bro, it feels like he is alive all of this time and never been died even tho we saw his death at the very first episode.. every flashback with him just feels so alive and reassuring so nostalgic, I've never met or seen him before but why do I feel this way? And every time we were reminded that he is dead I always feel stuffy inside and Soo sad like I've lost something .. a very strange feeling towards a fictional character that had already been dead from the majority of the episode...
I just love this anime so much.. the scene that hits me was when frieren wanted to see the sunrise with fren. She said the hero party was so sad when frieren not waking up and couldn't see it with them.. and when she finally saw it with fern it was just normal and so boring she thinks why would anyone doing it? But when she saw fern lights up she feels so happy about it.. 😢 for someone who always says no when someone is inviting me to a place that I think boring it hits me hard.. I've been reminded, that the moment where you were with someone you loved is what making it special
@@coffeelatte8616Yup, if you like/ love them just tag along and enjoy being with them enjoying whatever the uninteresting thing might be 😊😋
And yeah, being reminded every time that Himmel is actually gone always left this dull ache. Like I really want a 26 episode series of the Heroes Party 🥹
So incredibly amazing job to the mangaka for making the readers and viewers feel this way
I also want to mention in the next episode (I believe) where Fern was confident in her abilities to end clone-Frieren and then after a split second of the clone and blasting her away, we immediately switch to Fern's first person perspective as it wobbles and takes a closer towards her surroundings and finally clone Frieren, we immediately feel Fern's fear of the situation she was literally thrusted in. I was internally shivering in that scene.
Personally, I consider a break of the 4th wall to be an explicit acknowledgment by characters of the fact that they are in a fictional story, such as addressing the audience or making a joke out of the changing roles of set pieces in a stage play.
I see where you're coming from, but many fourth wall breaks of a character talking to an audience doesn't mean they believe or are admitting they are in a fictional story. For example, the Office has a character known for breaking the fourth wall by looking at the camera. Those scenes should not be considered him admitting that "what is happening is fiction." but instead as "what is happening is crazy, you seeing this?"
@@mindless2266i think the guy you're replying to already said the same thing unless the cameraman themselves are a character in the story
@@aeea3306 The Office is a mocumentary so the camera man is actually there in the room for the character to look at. The character is also aware they are being watched by an audience in the fiction. He's still breaking the fourth wall but it's contained in the fictional world.
i would argue in a play, a actor leaving the stage and walking below it /between the audience would count as "breaking the 4th wall" just physical instead with sound
i would say the idea of this video goes for a similiar idea
@mindless2266 the entire point of the office is that canonically within the story they're being recorded right? They even give the one on one explanation bits to the camera for extra context don't they? When the literal plot is characters are aware of being recorded then of course looking into the camera isn't a 4th wall break for fucks sake 😂😅
I don’t know, this is just good immersive storytelling.
Convey the emotion of a scene is a huge part of the story. Feeing what the characters are feeling isn’t breaching a 4th wall, it’s human empathy. The characters in the work don’t become more than what they are, they don’t become aware of anything beyond what they should.
A 4th break can only happen from within. Our natural state as the audience establishes that we know beyond what the characters are aware of. The whole point of interacting with art is to experience emotions. Symphonies, operas, sculptures, paintings. When they evoke emotions it’s not a wall break. Feeling bad about tragic news stories isn’t a wall break.
A 4th break exists regardless of the viewer, a sociopath or a narcissist would not be experiencing any of what you described.
Came to say this, but you said it better than i probably could have!
what i understood from the video was that the wallbreak was actually the fact that the show managed to make us feel an uncomfortable feeling or the same tension the cgaracters are feeling using the resources it had already stablished, that would be frieren being the safe net and suddenly separate it from the other two so the viewer no longer has that feeling of "everything is gonna be fine no matter what happens cause we have frieren" the same way the character eperience it. To me it made a really good point and I understand why it called it a 4th wall break
@@ElPavoPavil so did “Serbian Film” but that’s not a 4th wall break
Up, Howls moving Castle, old yeller…
Emotionally evocative and immersive storytelling isnt a 4th wall break.
@@ElPavoPavil I mean no not really? Otherwise for example it would be a wallbreak when they sealed Gojo in JJK, which it straight up just isn't. What you're describing is good writing lol.
I have to agree with the two above. You feeling strong emotions because of a story is just the writer doing their job right.
A 4th wall break is when a story expands beyond itself, into the realm of things it shouldn't know. It enforces our place as "the spectator" and it's place as "the spectated", which can actually detract from the viewer's imnersion and make them feel less. If anything, the examples outlined in the video are the opposite, a strengthening of the bond between reality and fiction we call "suspension of disbelief".
You want a character that does both, technically? Flowey. Flowey the flower. Flowey is a living warning to the player to what happens once they stop caring. And even then, I'd hardly consider this a 4th wall break, more than a "4th wall push". It pushes, expands the realm of the story slowly, until we and the mechanics are part of it. It doesn't acknowledge that the we're "out here" and the world is "in there", it *dictates* that everything is "in there", like it or not.
I think this conflating immersion and 4th wall breaking. One takes you out the other brings you in.
I dissagree. Arguably, the complete elimination of the 4th wall could very well be the closest a story can feel to reality, it allows the two to merge into one. The lore of the video game franchise Destiny, specifically Destiny 2, is a real incredible example of this. Savathuns song and the Ahamkara seeking to ascend to a higher existence. Despite neither of them truly knowing it's existance, they can infer as such due to in-universe illogicalities.
Example: the character Savathun gains power through deceit. Secretly, she would make false claims to herself no one else should know about (despite maybe a couple other characters). Millions of years later, during the events of the games, she would begin exoeriencing great influxes of power. We know this comes about due to ourselves having read what should be impossible knowledge, and as such she came to a similar hypothesis.
The game uses many similar story telling methods to make the players feel as though the world of Destiny truly exists adjacent to our own, while still being a story almost entirely isolated from our universe.
Immersion is you diving into the world,
What they are talking about is making the world come to you.
The first episode when Frieren finally cries "If only I had taken time to get to know him better " 😭
That hit home. I am trying hard to learn how to be more social because 40 years of missing out on family and romantic connections is lonely. I never understood what I was missing until recently.
Good luck dude. You’re doing an important service to yourself if you learn to connect. It matters more than anything.
My guy, that's just called immersion
When he was yapping about mirrors and glass doors I was like these are just basic elements of writing that autors use to tell a story. Sometimes they were accidents
Immersion eliminates the 4th wall.
consider how rare immersion is now though? every new piece of media is entrenched in reality, every setting bogged down by real world expectations, and messages that exist apart from the characters, cheeky references to memes and real life topics. Its not often humans become immersed to that extent anymore. Even beloved creations that DID immerse and captivate, like avatar the last airbender, get homogenized and retconned like in the netflix version, and lose their immersive quality.
its no wonder that this degree of immersion, this goal to make someone experience something, something primal and emotional, would become misconstrued as something unique or different, because its going extinct.
@@ayomafia1306I mean, yea. That's just good writing, it makes you immersed in the story.
And breaking the 4th wall is just making the audience aware the 4th wall exists. This pey guy is basically just yapping about don't use "breaking the 4th wall trope"
Thank you. Can't believe he tried to pass one off as the other as if we're dumb as fuck.
Putting the selfpromotion in the middle rather than the end is a great move, it lets your last words resonate much more.
Thank you for this series!
Yeah, except for the part where humans only remember the beginning and the end of something.
Dude, love what you are doing. Feels like your breaking the fourth wall explaining what everybody was feeling when saw this anime the first time. Thanks for doing it 🎉
I definitely get what you're going for here, but breaking the wall is such a well-defined topic that making that the main comparison obfuscates your point. It's useful as a jumping off point to explain what the wall is, but a break pretty clearly requires an acknowledgement of the wall; what Frieren is doing in these episodes and what you're arguing are more an expansion of the wall to include the audience. The sliding glass door explanation almost gets there but it doesn't quite reach without some additional clarity, especially because both the original definition and what you're arguing are deeply rooted in empathy. Even though you try to focus on the experience, you keep trying to differentiate it from regular empathy without too concrete of an example of why empathy doesn't count as a worthy enough experience on its own.
There are different levels to this 4th wall expansion, like you show with horror tropes, but the most straightforward comparison would be "whodunit" stories where the audience feels the same suspicions and excitement about revelations as the detective, not because they empathize with the detective but because the story is repeatedly inviting and rewarding that participation to where they're as much a part of the story as a character in it. That's why those mysteries can be so make or break for people, because as soon as they give the detective a conclusion the audience doesn't have a reasonable way of reaching, that invitation turns into a slap in the face because the 4th wall reappears suddenly and forcefully, regardless of how much the audience relates empathetically with the detective (which is why most of BBC's Sherlock episodes don't really work, it often fumbles both the empathy and the actual evidence elements).
I definitely think this one could have spent a little more time in the oven but I'm glad you're able to get so much out of Frieren. I'm looking forward to seeing what other lenses you bring up as your analysis gets further and further into the show.
Yeah, telling a story in a way that the character’s emotions align with the viewer’s emotions is not breaking the fourth wall. In fact, using the term “fourth wall” at all here is misleading since it is almost exclusively used to refer to narrative self-awareness rather than the abstract concept of the separation between the story and reality. The story teller being aware that the story is a story is not the same as the story being aware that it itself is a story.
i believe it was a good analogy to make, just not explained properly in the video. Just imagine a cube, and the show ur watching is in that said cube. you feel bad or excited for the characters when certain things happen inside that cube. Suddenly, one of the characters break the 4th wall (the wall you were behind watching them) and now, there isn't a separation between you or the show, the 4th wall is broken, that character that broke that 4th wall is INVITING you to experience everything WITH them, making it now less about how you feel for the character, but how you feel WITH the character.
Then you have that glass door analogy he gave with frieren, where instead of breaking that 4th wall so abruptly, the show slowly lets it dissipate until you start vividly feeling as if you're in that same situation with the characters in a subcouncious way, without any of the characters breaking that 4th wall, as if the story sucked you into the cube instead of breaking it's walls.
I normally don't watch analysis videos because they always feel repetitive - going over the same subjects and ideas but wording it in a different way.
But the way that you explained this idea, the way you structured this video, brought up amazing studies and excellent points, I really appreciate it. Its amazing. Informative, and educated. I love how you brought up studies, discussed things with clarity. Thank you for this wonderful video essay. I'll be sure to check out your frieren series (:
that's honestly a really good point about these "OP protag" animes that I never really noticed, is that both the audience AND characters start to rely on the fact that the protag is so OP that they'll never die or never lose, so when you strip them of that, both of you FEEL that anxiety, even more so for the audience because of the chekov's gun philosophy, where we know they wouldn't take away the OP protag unless they really wanted to challenge the surrounding cast or if they needed an excuse to kill off a character.
but I definitely felt that same anxiety you talked about when I watched those episodes. Like they build up stark and fern to be pretty freaking OP themselves, so I wasn't super worried, but now I think they more so did that just so they could throw them up against super powerful people from frieren's past, like that demon lord dude she sealed away, or the very demons in this episode.
anyway, but yeah. really cool thing I never noticed. I think the only trope I don't like about this genre is just how writers use the OP protag to save characters at just the right moment. like, obviously, that's the point, and even when frieren does it, it's not super intrusive or jarring, but it still diminishes it a little bit where you're maybe thinking "ok, so the character lost and is about to die so is someone going to save them, or...?" and sure enough the OP protag comes in just in the nick of time to save them. It does detract from it, I feel, especially if they do the trope multiple times, cause then you're expecting it every time, even if they try to subvert it by throwing other characters in the mix to be the saviors. I feel like there's an engaging way you could essentially write the OP protag out of certain scenes without entirely forgetting about them, kind of like how frieren dealt with the "boss" while stark and fern had their own adversaries to take on, so even if frieren wanted to help them, she was tied up and busy, so that already throws the possibility of her saving them out the window, further raising the stakes.
I think you forgot to explain how the 4th wall disappeared in the two examples, Yeah I got that its an emotion in conjunction with the characters emotion rather than following what they feel, but you have to realize that what YOU felt watching it is not immediately obvious to anyone else. I was waiting for you to explain what you felt in conjunction with what the characters where feeling but it never happened...
I agree. I got so confused at the beginning.
what i understood from the video was that the wallbreak was actually the fact that the show managed to make us feel an uncomfortable feeling or the same tension the cgaracters are feeling using the resources it had already stablished, that would be frieren being the safe net and suddenly separate it from the other two so the viewer no longer has that feeling of "everything is gonna be fine no matter what happens cause we have frieren" the same way the character eperience it. To me it made a really good point and I understand why it called it a 4th wall break
@@ElPavoPavilI somewhat get that but it does feel a little strange because it's basically just regular story telling. it's done well for sure, but I'm not sure if I personally would consider it a fourth wall break. i think making the fourth wall disappear is distinct and an interesting topic but I do agree with other commenters that it could've used a bit more fleshing out
@@emmas1366 i think the issue of why it's not so clear is he never really explains what a "4th wall break" actually means. What i got from the video is the following:
No 4th wall break = empathy for the fictional characters u see on a screen
4th wall break = characters in the show make "suddenly" make you aware (by agknowledging the audience for example) and therefore pulling you INTO the story in some way.
4th wall glass door/ dissapearing = you start to experience the same emotions WITH the fictional characters rather than just watching them experience it, as if you have also become part of the story (in other words emotionally invested) in a subconscious way, or in other words in a way where you don't notice yourself that you're already head deep into the story without necessarily BREAKING that 4th wall.
Thank you for this video, it was really eye opening on several levels. Your way of explaining tells a lot about the affection you have for this wonderful anime. I am sure that i will continue to enjoy watching each subsequent videos you make of this series.
As a classical musician, I do wanna say that the “Twelve tone technique” doesn’t refer to the western tuning system (so 12 notes). But to a compositional technique created by Arnold Schoenberg.
I was very much confused on why he was referring the Twelve tone technique as such when it was a system to actually counteract the established western notation system.
the sliding glass door is an interesting concept. I'm not sad because Shikamaru lost a loved one, and I know how that feels, but I was sad because *I* was sad that the character died
Now I think about it, I felt really anxious and worried when freiren wasn't around (when she was in jail), I instinctively thought something very bad was about to happen, I was conditioned to believe Freiren to be capable and to always be there to help out with stuff like when shit went down
This is probably not an example of what your talking about, but when Sein is being super supportive to Fern and Stark's "friendship" and then in the next shot, he's drunk and yelling "just date already!" I felt like I watched a character break the fourth wall by suddenly just getting me, I felt heard, like we were yelling together😂
these explorations are beautiful, thank you for continuing to make them
Thanks so much for making this video, that's the most inspiration and braincandy I've gotten from 11 minutes for the idk past 5 or so years?
There was so much not-4th-wall in there as well, rules of storytelling, learning outside the comfort zone, very clever and useful to look up further!
I love it when people talk about art and psychology
Understanding the idea of resolution in music, as soon as I heard the end of the piece you put in this video for microtonal music ("Paranola" by Zheanna Erose), the entire piece made sense and sounded significantly better.
I don't know why, but watching this video makes me want to cry about as much as watching Frieren did.
You should do a video on OP 1 and OP2, the contrasts in color, framing, and song style because there’s SO much to talk about there!
I find your example of removing the fourth wall (aka the safety net) a very interesting analysis. This was a lovely video 👍
Really enjoying your videos. Subbed.
This is a really interesting take! The relationship between the audience and the 4th wall is so fascinating, and the image of the 4th wall disappearing is very compelling. I especially like the “safety net” example.
However, as many pointed out, the title is a bit misleading. More accurately, the terminology doesn’t seem to be used effectively. (Also sorry, this is going to be long ^^”)
A lot of people mention that this is just immersion, and they are mostly correct. The very essence of immersion is becoming engrossed in the world they are engaging with, the inevitable result of making the 4th wall disappear. Never introducing the term “immersion” distracts from the point, which is frustrating because you’re right! Frieren is a masterclass on immersion and making the 4th wall disappear through empathy!!
The issue stems from an expected “4th wall disappearing is better than 4th wall breaks” argument. If I’m understanding correctly, the core idea is more that making the 4th wall disappear is one of the most subtle yet impactful ways to facilitate immersion. This immersion manifests as a deep personal connection with the characters or story that the creator can then utilize to evoke emotion. And again, I agree completely! But the inclusion of 4th wall breaks feels unnecessary.
It does make me wonder about the different ways the 4th wall can affect immersion. How would the tone change if there were 4th wall breaks in Frieren? If we were acknowledged by the characters, would it loose the alien feeling we have as total outsiders watching the story unfold? Does it being a sliding glass door stop us from seeing our reflection like a mirror? You’ve definitely given much to think about!
This is like his 8th video i've watched, pretty sure that means I gotta sub. These are some seriously well written videos
Thank you for the video I look forward to this series, learning more about a show I love from the perspective and experience of others who feel the same way about the show is nice.
i just watched all of frieren, i know i am quite late but at the time of hearing about its existence i wasnt in the mood to watch any anime because i was a little burnt out. I had kept hearing so much praise for it that i wanted to make sure when i watched it i wouldnt have a bad experience/have outlying factors affect how i felt when watching. This was probably one of the best decisions I have ever made. This show made me feel so many emotions and made me learn so much about how to view memories. I'm just glad that I wasn't disappointed.
That being said I'm surprised I've heard so much about it when the show is so recently released. Kinda makes me sad that I will have to wait ages until the story continues but, as one of the few remaining sane Hollowknight fans I no longer find waiting an issue.
at 6:08 with just the music is already making me want to cry it's so beautiful
Love your videos man! Something about your voice, pacing, and style is just very calming. Very simple but also very inspirational.
A lot of people in the comments don't really seem to understand what's being discussed here. It's the difference between feeling bad because someone else feels bad, aka empathy, and feeling bad because you are the one hurt. It's the difference between feeling sad because your friend's dog died versus feeling sad because your dog died. There's really only one word that needs to be said to establish the difference between "Watching something happen to someone else" and "It happening to you" is the word "Kurama."
This is my first time coming across your videos, and I must say they are well put together, i will definetely be coming back for more
I mean...the fourth wall is the wall consisting of audience separation. A term created with theater in mind. You're looking at a stage. The wall in the back, the two on the side and the 4th, invisible wall between audience and stage. Breaking the 4th wall is anything that consists of moving from strictly a thing the audience interacting with via viewing, to a thing where the thing the audience is viewing is interacting with them, typically via acknowledgement. Which is why a 4th wall break means what it means.
Damn, i cant remember the last time i have watched a video like this. i instinctively understand every concept you are presenting but cannot comprehend the individual steps. My perception of the world around me has grown along the very boundary i would have been lost by. Amazing video.
I love your videos on Frieren, as it allows me to take one of my favorite shows and truly experience it in a completely different light. Especially with your truly inspired takes and in depth analysis on the topic. Thank you and please keep up the quality in editing and analysis!
You outdone yourself yet again man. Frieren is definitely one of the most thought provoking series out there. But it's hard to put those feelings in a essay video
Great video as always
not what i expected this video to be about, but amazing regardless. Maybe I need to try watching Freiren sometime...
i think a example of this is a scene in that episode of bluey where the mom is going through post-partum depression, and another mom tries talking to her, the camera is placed where blueys mom would be so the other character looks into the camera n says “ur doing great”
Ok, I fell into this video not knowing this channel and I still haven't watched Frieren. Firstly, what an absolute masterpiece of a video (btw I would love to know the name of every single music you used in this video, this soundtrack you made is simply so good). Secondly, I will imediately start watching this anime, the way you talked about it and the frames of the episodes you showed completely amazed me!
These series are like university classes. Hopefully they will continue for 3-4 years until s2 goes out. I can't imagine my days without Frieren and Pey's videos at this point.
[an unnamed constellation smiles in agreement]
Peak reference
I love how you can explain the things I felt so precisely. Love this series
this reminds me of demonslayers inital training and the eventual conclusion of tanjiro finally cutting the dense rock he was tasked with. the entire establishment of the spirits helping him, teaching him and the lead up into that dual. but then baiting both the audiance and tanjiro that this isnt a teaching dual, but the singular push to give it a proper all on the stone by hidding it from him till the after math of what he just did. the entire realization of what just happened is what gave me such a intrest in that show and why i knew at that moment it was going to be a intresting one.
background music is top notch and the amount of info in video is so high! Pleasure to watch these!
Regarding character growth and safety net - maybe i am too blunt, but when Frieren tells Stark and Fern that they are strong enough to deal with demons, i believed her experience and had no worries. Stark even understood that his opponent was very manageable :D
great stuff! I usually watch yt vids in 2x but in yours i just had to slow it down to normal speed just to get the feels. damn this stuff is GREAT!. keep it up, also music choice is fireee
Oooh i get it
I was watching Sonny Boy and was crying cuz i felt the same what Nagaro felt
It also happened when i was watching Hunter with Mads Mikkelsen in it
It is amazing how some stories cause such an impact on me. Gotta be one of the best feelings ever, i love it
THE GOOSEBUMPS I GOT WHEN THE VIDEO ENDED MY GOD!! WHAT A VIDEO!
I do think another amazing example of making the 4th wall disappear happens in the episode "Baby Race" from Bluey. When the puddle momma tells Chilli that she's doing a good job, the camera faces her, making it seem like she's talking to the audience. Although she isn't really, a lot of viewers commented on how it was so reassuring to hear that.
Never thought i see someone that loves this anime more than me.
These essays are really enjoyable and I can learn a thing or two about storytelling. Keep it up :)
You’ve cooked again brother
bro said i wouldnt like microtonal music but this shit has me enthralled
nice quick and clean, I like this. Not a fan of friedren ngl, too slow… for me at the moment. I started it and it’s amazing just life, nowadays and especially mine is super hecktic. Thank you for listening to my rant which was caused by this amazing video which just made me stop. In the middle of my day
For the mentioned "feelings of danger" when Frieren left, I am reminded of the "Trope Talk: Tone Armor" episode of the "Overly Sarcastic Productions" TH-cam channel.
Really stretching even the modern definition there…
Pey you're genuinely incredible I love what you do
yooo hello. I am a author in training (I am really dumb but I like writing stories). I really enjoyed this video and watching you talk about different concepts and everything inspires me to want to learn more. Something I struggle with is overall story telling rules or norms in a story. I don't exactly know what I am trying to say but I feel like watching your videos highkey increases my knowledge a bit. W video
Great compelling video. It was a pleasure just sitting back and lending an ear to your viewpoint
If you want to see mastery of making the fourth wall disappear, watch Mayoi Hell Part 1 of The Monogatari Series. Our main character Araragi, gets sent to the bottom layer of hell for being a pseudo-vampire. While Mayoi, the spirit of the lost cow, is tasked with leading him back to reality. While doing so, they both reflect on Araragi's regrets and how his past actions have lead him to such a dark place:
Araragi: "It's difficult to do the right thing. Most people are more willing to correct a mistake than do the right thing, right? Because correcting a mistake makes people _feel_ like they are doing the right thing. If you keep correcting mistakes, crushing them one by one, would it result in a pure white kind of right? If I had to guess, it would be a pitch-black kind of right."
Mayoi: "But if you go that route, you won't obtain what you really want. Because it is based on the premise that someone else is making the evaluation. That way, you will only receive what others give you. Of course, I am not saying that's a bad thing. If, like you, someone sought something beyond their reach, or something they don't deserve, such a method would prove to be impossible. The only thing you can do is succeed, right?"
Mayoi, as a fictional character, is directly talking to the audience, but she is doing it THROUGH Araragi in a completely transparent way. Mayoi is saying that you, as the audience member, have attachments to Araragi, and thus feel emotional about his situation, and have judgements about his actions.
Mayoi is telling Araragi that he does not have to live up to your expectations, as there is an infinite gulf that cannot be crossed between the viewer and himself (paradoxical, I know). Consequently, Araragi should just do what he feels is the 'right thing', regardless of what you, as an audience member, may think of him. This is the only sure-fire method he has of succeeding and finding fulfillment inside of the story for himself.
I think this makes the fourth wall disappear as it makes you feel as though you were harshly judging Araragi in the same way he was harshly judging himself. It points out that you should be as kind to yourself as what you are to others. It makes you reflect on your own mistakes in the same way Araragi is. You end up sharing this experience with Araragi in a very meta way.
Wow I'm super early, also you deserve more subscribers
Didn't took me 1 minute to subscribe, I see straight up quality in your videos.
Hope you make many more.
God this was such a good series. That lesson for Fern and Stark felt so personal to me. It took me forever to learn it, and now I'm trying to teach it. By the time you feel ready for a challenge, you've already wasted too much time. Trust in your mentors when they say you are ready.
Hey I'm a teacher and when you mentioned the zone of proximal development, it felt like I was having a review while enjoying at the same time. hahaha
i think the most common way we find the fourth wall "disappearing" is in psychological horror games/anime. you feel the feelings alongside the characters, whether it be fear, emotional pain, happiness, etc.
possibly because theyre meant to do that, but i find it as a good example
Alright fine, you've convinced me to watch the show. I like how you analyze the show and these topics, keep it up. :)
There's a good hour long essay to be made about how stellar the production of Frieren was, I hope we see that into the next season (whenever that gets confirmed) I've recently gotten back into writing and watching your videos helps me get really introspective about the process, you have once again highlighted simple moments and made them thinkers
Thank you for your Frieren videos. Liked and subscribed. Cheers!
Yess I'm watching this at 2am
Same!
8:25 Best example I can give you is from "Sayonara Eri" Fatsuki Fojimoto is a master of subtlety, he can break the forth wall to bring he's work to reality, but at the same time keeping it with a pinch of fantasy
A few of those science concepts you mentioned related to perception of beauty/aesthetics I believe are coming from the field of Evolutionary Psychology. Things like that facial symmetry or left-side preference. I it think it would be good to know that evo psych has a few issues: 1) It is a small field with a very prevalent problem of confirmation bias. Conclusions are often reached before studies begin toward proving a specific end. 2) The field doesn't put itself to the scrutiny of the rest of psychology, nor to the study of genes/evolution. Which is a major problem with a field supposedly combining the two. 3) Evo Psych has a major heteronormative bias / patriarchal bias, often trying to prove things about sexual attraction toward the end of invalidating lifestyles outside of the nuclear family or polygamy. | A good video to watch to take a more critical approach to the field, rather then a more charitable approach, would be Munecat's recent video essay. She also provides sources that can be your jumping off point.
Secondly, with regards to this embodied emotion concept versus a rational/mind emotion, I would also caution away from holding cartesian dualism as an axiom for your analysis, especially when using psychology as a lens for analysis of story. Marvin Minksy, "The mind is what the brain does." Start by looking into Cognitive Label Theory for emotion, which describes both bottom-up emotion (starting with inherent sensation then receiving cognitive label), and top-down emotion (having a thought/realization about how you feel and from there creating the sensation of the emotion in your body). It is very similar to what you described here, but the mind is never treated as separate from the body. The brain is mind-ing. Though, if you do what to maintain the cartesian dualism, i think it would be prudent to be direct in your writing that you are engaging in a discussion of the spiritual/immaterial. That is equally as valid a line of inquiry as psychology. When dealing with the sciences, though, I stick to materialist lenses.
Thank you for sharing. This was incredibly constructive. Thanks for sharing your understanding of evolutionary psychology
He did it... again.
I watched all of the released episodes of Frieren: Beyond Journey's End and, like many, many others, thoroughly enjoyed it.
Pey breaks down elements of the story, expounds on them, and shares a unique perspective of *why* we liked it, with a different voice, and amazing production value.
It's like getting to enjoy a fantastic series again with kindred friends.
Okay, okay, okay, I admit defeat. I thoroughly enjoy your videos. I’ll subscribe 😌
Love this series!
shikamaru and his dad talking and him crying is imo the peak of Shippuden, that shit hit soooooo different.
Hmm I’m not sure I’d say that emphasizing with characters to the point that you feel like you’re experiencing it yourself is what breaking the 4th wall means
i dont think thats what he's saying. he's saying breaking the fourth wall can mean when a story uses a character's reaction to have the audience feel something else alongside it.
@@timcrnkovich4326 I think he's saying something similar. Pey's video feels to me like praise for "immersion" and "limited pov's" in writing. If you have been following a character for long enough and are sufficiently familiar with their status quo, are presented mostly the same information as the character, and follow their reactions to said information, then developments in the story that shock said character (should) have the same effect on the audience. Empathy is a good way to describe it, although it's more than just "feeling what the characters feel," because the audience has actually been put in the same situation as the character.
@@timcrnkovich4326 yeah I understand the story using a characters reaction to have the audience feel something alongside it. I just think that referring to that as “breaking the fourth wall” is misconstruing the term
It's not, it's just immersion
I feel like "when frieren is not there" unease thing is fairly common in shows and movies where we are conditioned to realy on certain chracters and percieve them as safety net. Its easy to miss untill you start pattern recognizing. Ive been watching peaky blinders recently and it comes to mind. Thomas shelby being the main character and the mind behind everything we are made to think everything will be all right however much stuff is going down when hes there. There is unease when he is not around and something happens though the other characters are shown capable like polly shelby. Even when things arent going well i found myself thinking its alright thomas shelby is there. But there are moments i feel dread where its shown even though tommy is there things arent getting fixed but getting worse. Though it gets resolved somehow, im feeling what the side characters are feeling. Same goes for jujutsu kaisen when gojo is there and isnt there and gets boxed. Happens with any character who is shown to be the safety net with good storytelling. It is particularly strong when that character is the main character.
You managed to make me feel emotional even tho it's "just an explanatory video", I know it's kinda more than that but I just wanted to let you know that your videos are also able to reach some people's feelings C: well done o7
love this content, nice work
This is my first time seeing one of your videos, and, well, now I have to go back and watch ALL your videos..... 🔥
Incredible breakdowns as always
I stopped at 4:27, looks like a lot of people did as it's the most replayed section,
Listened to the first microtonal music on google which was from someone named Gregoire Blanc
music was nice, though it's certainly more of a tone I would use for an explorative type of situation I'd be putting myself into, rather than a music I would regularly listen to recreationally to elicit any specific mood, though I'm certain that there are MANY manners and I would say that it's interesting to check out at some point. This is I think the third video about this topic I've seen lately (demons aren't evil and over powered done right) and I'm not much of an anime watcher, more I like reading and when people cover deep character explorations One of the videos I recently watched was about Iroh and Masculinity.
anyways, I enjoy your stuff, and yeah, I'll give you a sub for the good stuff, take care yeah?
This is a fascinating concept I've never heard of or thought of, but feels so obvious now that I think of it. What happens during a 4th wall break? The character and the viewer share a moment; they're reacting to the same thing, experiencing the world in the same way. A jumpscare does the same thing, you're feeling the same fear/startle as the character, from the same source, at the same time. You're sharing a moment together.
This is an interesting concept. Instead of the characters breaking the fourth wall, you break it instead by being "there" alongside them. Though I can't say I felt the same as you in this instance. Especially in regards to experiencing the leap of faith from Fern and Stark's perspective. Instead, I guess I empathized more with Frieren, or at least I trusted her assessment of the situation and their chances so I didn't feel any apprehension over them fighting without her protection. I guess as far as "breaking the fourth wall" goes, I may have experienced it as Frieren did instead where she is confident in them and is proud of their success in the aftermath because that's how I felt watching it haha.
Great video 👍
I've actually encountered microtonal music somewhere before, though I can't recall exactly where, but for me, it's evoking many mixed feeling all at once. Like... seeing a sunset, and feeling the beauty of that sunset, but also being aware of a running river and birds fluttering across the glade all at the same time.
Funny enough, I actually tend to have a preference of asymmetry in designs, as long as they still have some form of visual balance. I love working them into my own designs, but I also understand that makes them harder for other people to draw, and animating such a thing is even more taxing when you can't just 'flip it' to get the same image from either side.
I think there are some RPG games that are wonderful at doing this. One experience in particular that comes to mind was from Final Fantasy 14's Endwalker expansion.
When a foe you had to deal with over several expansions, one who was well established, and you knew was just the right combination of cunning and cold-blooded enough to go to any lengths to get your attention suddenly yanks you away without warning, and no one knowing you are gone. The moment of shock started to settle in, waking to find your own body staring back at you from across the table, with an expression you would never wear, and realizing, he's in it. That this murderous mad-man in your flesh, your body honed through countless trials, again and again, has challenged you to stop him, has a head start, and just left to find your friends.
And you, the savior of more than one world, are left with nothing more than the diminished body of an average soldier.
I felt a very real stress response, a very real sense of fear as I raced through that ruined city as fast as I dared, frustrated every time I had to stop to avoid being spotted by enemies that would bring more to bear against me, but taking breaths and trying to remind myself I could not risk fighting them like this. I was panicked when things would not go right, when I could not find the fuel I needed for a vehicle to get through a barricade, fearing what would happen if I did not make it in time, and constantly aware the clock was ticking down.
And when that explosion went off, and all I could do was crawl, stunned, injured and barely able to manage that much, that moment became my entire focus. It was right there...the end was in sight... I would make it in time to warn them...!
Even years later, that whole sequence stuck with me profoundly, and it was no doubt because they had not just broken the fourth wall, but entirely removed it.
Agh wonderfully said. Imma go rewatch that episode now thanks
Only other show I've seen this in is Jobless Reincarnation. Unlike most shows, the writing centers instead not off your eyes and ears but your mind. The writing, tone, atmosphere, etc. are done in such a way that it was written from Rudeus's own perspective, and by extension your own. My favorite example of this is the Doldia village arc to the Orstead encounter. When Rudy gets captured, despite facing execution (not that they could if they tried but whatever), he's extremely light hearted about it. It feels like a game to him, and like a game it wrapped up neatly defeating the boss and saving the day. It made Rudy feel like he had plot armor, and HE himself felt like he had plot armor too.
Then when he met Orstead, all that was ripped away in the most violent fashion. Ruijerd, who Rudy considered to be an invincible warrior screamed for them to run for their lives before getting the shit beat out of him himself. Rudy panicking as he saw his own chest cavity open up. Eris screaming and crying at the death of Rudy, the girl he promised to protect. Etc. It feels so desperately hopeless that it turns a knot in your stomach. And it's only able to do that to such an extent because throughout the show, it systematically gave you and Rudeus that security.
A thing I noticed was way early on in the show, Rudeus having undergone little development treats his new life like a game. He thinks of it like a game. He makes references to his silent casting as "OP cheat skills" and shit like that. When he gets teleported, it feels to him like he's off on a side quest. Another reason it didn't even occur to him that other people got teleported. The Orstead encounter is the turning point that makes him realize "Holy fuck! This isn't a game, this is real. I have a life here that I care about, more than anything else." This is also the point at which he stops making comparisons to videogames. His new second life, the people he cares about, and situations that he can't wriggle out of. The gravity of these things becomes SO much more real. This only feels that way because they intentionally made it seem 'not real' to begin with.
And thus concludes my rant
Once this series is over, you should compile it into a massive video essay
that sliding door concept reminds of when subaru told ecgidna about his return by death powers. that was so gut-wrenching.
Th first time I expierenced the breaking of "the 4th Wall" was in the movie "The Neverending Story". As a kid I thougt it was very interesting and unique, without knowing it was a deliberate storytelling device.
i am really like your video man, it’s so good
I've always watched anime Through the Method You're Talking About I Watch by experiencing it. It's why I love anime so much because most anime is animated like tthis form my perspective and some movies are made like this
also, honestly i've been putting off subbing to this channel because i tend to forget about videos in my sub feed, but "prioritize" videos in my recommended (dumb, i know, i've been trying to fix that about me ;_; ), as much as i've loved all the previous videos in this series however, this video had me not only subbing, but turning notifs on (something i RARELY ever do), just so that i don't lose your videos in my sub feed😁
I was skeptical until I remember Dune 2 wormride. Thank you !
i really love that we get to learn about other things through you talking about other things while also talking about Frieren! xD
Hyperdimension Neptunia Mk II did this marvelously with one of its optional endings. It's emotionally scarred a good portion of Neptunia's fanbase, and at the same time cemented the series as an absolute classic in the minds of many who've experienced it. All you have to do is say "Gehaburn" around a fan and those wounds reopen. And that was the second game they created, back in 2011, while they've had a few chances to do similar things with their other games.
I love your videos bro