Climbing Quad Anchor break test with 240cm Black diamond dyneema sling
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- We built a full anchor and broke it, over and over again on our Bolt Buster concrete slab and then again on our slack snap machine. I think I like quad anchors now! Special surprise 103KN test at the end!
Chart at 16min46sec if you want to skip to that.
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I just realized you guys are pretty much the exact opposite of the Hydraulic Press Channel.
friday night before a scarey first solo calming lol for me just here.. cheers you twiddle twat hahahaha ;)
wow mind blown lol thanks
Underrated comment
Hydraulic Pull Channel
Well, I'm a noob about to go and try leading for the first time this weekend and I bought this exact black diamond sling to make quad anchors with. Seeing this just makes me super confident in its ability. Thanks guys.
How it was?
@@_pv350 he died
It’s so weird to find this knowing he died climbing only weeks after posting 🙁
@reecedi4296 did he really die?
@@rbritton87yes he’s really gone. Rip Kesh, we’ll miss you bro
Great job as always. You and Bobby rock. I just sent you $300 to keep your testing going. Awesome work men.
Thanks Duane! Hope you are recovering well. Hope to see you out at the crags soon.
Thats a good point about dual strand quad anchors. Im new to climbing and Bobbie's video on three top rope anchors convinced me to get the nessisary items for a quad anchor. Cool video.
I'd like to see you guys do a collaboration with the slo-mo guys... and I wonder if it's possible to see the fractures happening on a carabiner or something like that
i keep asking them!
@@HowNOT2 Oh really?? and what do they say?? I'm guessing No? if you keep asking them :(
Or Destin from smarter every day.
@@HowNOT2 hope they catch up, would be really cool
Though I guess there are prob. other channels doing slowmo stuff that may be keener on climbing, in case the slomo are not...
Ha, and also the hydraulic press channel, time to crush some carabiners and dyneema!
Friction welded dyneema was awesome to see!
Would love to see you guys test webbing directly through bolt hangers since this is still commonly encountered for rappels, especially in canyons. Webbing loop through hanger, webbing knott tail padding between hanger and webbing loop, girth hitch to hanger, stopper knott through hanger, and everyone's favorite: the American (Death) Triangle.
Bonus points for age or repeated use.
It's prob fine... right?
I think a quad anchor out of 6mm aramid cord like the one from edelrid rated 22kn would be the bombest of all bomber anchors
Haha yes! I saw the other Quad anchor video with the cords and just started searching for 6mm cord and came across these monster 22 kN ones from Edelrid! I think a quad out of that would be the definition of overkill! lol
I searched for cords after that video too lol. I just wanted to find some cool blue cord like they used for the quads
Nice example of gate flutter there with the piece of sling popping out of that aluminum biner! Not nearly as likely during a real life whipper on a rope... but still a possibility.
You can actually see the gates open and the sling pop out. Pause the video at 2:51 and use the < > keys to step through the individual video frames. In this case the flutter is caused by the sudden acceleration of the carabiner body while the gate remains stationary, which is the exact opposite of gate flutter during a fall where the carabiner is moving and the body smacks a rock and stops but the gate keeps moving. Fascinating! I prefer wire gates for this reason on everything except bolt-side carabiners on my beater sport quickdraws.
The bolt carabiner here actually had its gate open from the sling snagging it and popping out as it flew by. Crazy stuff.
I second others who say get some collab with a high-speed camera channel so we can see all the hardware interaction in slow-mo!
The way i like to make sure the sliding x is correct is simply use one loop and make the sliding x and clip it together, then add the 2nd loop and make its sliding x and clip it with the 1st. That way you aren't fuddling around and trying to make sure your grabbing the right strands.
Nice to see dyneema get some love. or hate. depends on how you view it.
I'm not quite sure but is 103 kn "super good enough"?
for me it is, but some people....
These guys are legendary. I’d like to see the same test on the exact same dyneema set up after it’s taken 20 or 30 normal falls and maybe a handful of factor 2. Maybe over time as well, stored in a backpack full of gear and exposed to sunlight, etc. Kind of a real world test.
The real world Mammut test broke a similar sling with 160 lbs on a factor 1 fall. Dyneema can't handle dynamic loading, that's why it's only used in more or less static situations. One isn't supposed to fall on it, just support ones weight.
@@BRENDANTHEREDso no dyneema extensions?
@@4316rodney If you like the idea of falling to your death, feel free. They are approved for use as a static extension, as in a personal anchor, but not for dynamic loading. Have you ever read the manual that came with a dyneema sling? The info is in the paperwork. They have tested plenty of well used dyneema slings, but the tests are loaded statically, as dynamic loading is not what they are intended for.
You should mark the strands with different color markers so when they snap you know which went to which.
thanks for doing this (and other) testing :-)
My pleasure!
That's an effective ad for locking carabiners on anchors.
You brought up an interesting point in this video - Could you guys test Dressed Knots Vs NotDressed Knots?
Interesting, but it would not make a difference. Dressing a knot just makes it easier for the user to undo after a whipper. A dressed knot quickly becomes gnarled up when this monster pulling machine tugs on it. If you are generating 30+kn, youve got bigger problems, like a broken spine.
What do you mean by dressed / undressed knot?
@@bullfrogboss8008 Dressing is organizing the strands in the knot so that they run neatly (usually parallel) and dont twist/overlap within the knot. My understanding/logic is that a dressed knot does a better job of equalizing the load on the various strands in the knot, and it most definitely makes it easier to inspect.
"Redundant" means no significant decrease in strength/security, when some parts fail. The slippery Dyneema slides to failure at a fraction of the initial loading peak, so neither girth nor clove hitch provides redundancy in this configuration. I suggest using two separate shorter slings, and double or triple them to arrange the master point if needed, entirely without knots; similar total material involved, but actually multiplying the final strength versus reducing it with knots.
On your quad tests you ether use a 2-2 or just 3. I have seen on line and in person. 2 strands for up belay anchor and 2 for clipping personal tether to. What does 2 strand brake at?
Thank you! I appreciate and love your videos!
This video answered a part of an earlier question I presented on another video. Thanks
I don't understand how that happened 14:20 I tried it several times and it never happened.
Some tests later...
I think the problem is not in the magic X, the problem is in the way of using the double sling.
Seeing this test (as well as a nylon equivalent) repeated on the drop tower to simulate a factor 2 fall would be superrrrr interesting
Wild Country has an oldish video that tests diffrent anchor material on a drop tower.
This would be great to see redone with shock loads with the drop tower....
I use my mammut 8.0 quad clipped into 2 strands with another 2 for my partner/ belay device. Would be cool to see you just pull two of the strands instead of all four in two different biners.
Great video, thank you for your time and investment
we can chase the rabbit holes eventually
Agreed. I think this one is common enough for multi-pitch.
Agreed would love to see. I often do this on multipitch.
I likewise do this as well!
I think will be really cool to see how the different angles works in a belay angles. Maybe as well could be old ropes left in the walls, maybe I can get some of thoose. Thank you guys, always a plasure watch your videos
The same test, except one side of the quad unclipped. Would the knot slip through? If so that kinda defeats the redundancy of a dyneema quad.
Also, similar but different, both sides clipped, but pulling in such a way that one "bolt" is not loaded (the quad is loaded outside of it's "range of equalization" pulling on the knot)
those sound like good tests
I only wish I had the coin to donate the slings! I love your content man, y'all answer all the questions I ask myself when setting anchors. another note on the first test, if the bar tack is in the unclipped side it would be harder for the knot to slip.
It probably doesn't really defeat redundancy because you won't have an ongoing 10kn force pulling on your role while climbing. Even getting 10k at all is highly unlikely. A big lead fall normally generates about 7kN (if I'm correct).
I think that slipping might actually make the ultrastatic dyneema a little more safe for big shot loads. might be a long shot tho
@@sechsfufzig8738 even if the knot did slip you're still clipped into the sling (unless the sling broke/got cut), so yeah I guess you'd still be "good".
The grass is still so nice in this video!!!😲
Does a dynamic rope break more easily under a slowly-increased than a fast dynamic load since thats what it's intended use is?
So I’m watching this wondering if the dyneema sling gets cut on one side and now you are relaying on that knot to not slip you’re pretty much gonna fall.
would be sweet to see 2 120cm slings tied in a single quad too!!
40 kN? I weigh 170 lbs, so 10 kN is roughly my weight (77 kg) hitting something at 280 mph (129 m/s). This equip test looks good to me.
So is that a yes or a no for dyneema sling quad anchors with limiter knots?
They failed at ~40 kn.
How did you setup the sling for the sliding X to fail? I tried that on 2 points and it worked just fine with the "standard" crossing of strands. I doubled the sling as if I would want to carry the sling over my shoulder and then clipped to the carabiners, made sliding X, unclipped and it was OK.
Looks like he clipped one end, put both stands thru the other, and clipped it back on the first again.
Instead of what you did (like i would. I'm guessing he would also normally) sling between hands, one twist, and gather hands)
Great Video! Could you repeat this to show what happens if you make a quad using a 240 cm nylon sling with just overhand knots at either end? I only see quads made with cordelette or dynema, wondering if the slippery nature of nylon makes this use unacceptable!
Might be helpful to color with markers various points to know where they where before they broke.
My suggestion too. Use colored marker pens or electrician's tape.
the fire department I work for uses long tail interlocking bowlines on 1/2 inch super static lines. i would love to see you pull on those and see what they break at.
I want to see the quad with one side disconnected from the start. That would be the use case of one of the carabiners comes unclipped or a bolt pulls out. You kept pulling after the rope failed but didnt cover a different failure
Hey random question. I’m assuming those carabiners aren’t good to use any more after being stretched to the limit but I don’t know. If anyone know please let me know I am very curious
What about sliding x w/ limiter knots?
What about the fact that BD mention that knots shouldn’t be tied in anything made of dynex ?
You could color code the slings to help recreate the original configuration/position
So how much load would you allow in a test and still use the carabiner for climbing?
Very interesting video(s).
Have you tested equalette 3?
It is very popular in Spain, but I am not sure if the knots can hold the load without slippering, in case of a bolt failure.
Hey man - Im not good at youtube, but when you say "when we tested x or y" or whatever, you should throw a link on the screen like the super pro dudes dude. Like "boom" and then a link.
Dunno abt slack line... But as a climber these quad anchors are just overkill... The harness will break before the slings, binders, bolts, etc
Should test if putting carabiners inside the knot to help undo after loading decreases the strength
Do you have a video on the breaking force of 7mm cordalette quads? I wanted to see which was stronger between dyneema and cordalette quads!
Ohh wow! It's so impressive seeing the Biners unclip themselves, that's some force yo xD
Is the delivery of force different/greater when falling(it being loaded within a second), vs a machine imitating the force over a longer period of time?
lol "I don't know how important dressed knots are"
could you do shock loading tests like a cheap carabiner and a real carabiner and see if the redundancy of systems actually works.
Thanks!
Thank you for this! Love your channel!
Is there a device where a belayer can lock down a roper he is connected to so he can do something else with his hands w/o killing the person he is belaying?
Since so many of these tests fail at the knots at a significant lower force than without knots, it leads me to wonder (half jokingly) whether we should forgo knots all together : O I realize knots create redundancy, but how often are sling/cord legs in a 2 or 3 piece anchor being cut or compromised?
You should do a sewn versus knitted sling video
Test to see at what point a Beal escaper fails...curious if it slips or snaps.
I’d like to see a drop test with a dyneema sling anchor attached to at least 10ft of static rope. Will the static rope absorb enough of the initial impact allowing the dyneema to withstand a factor 1+ fall?
Hey, could you please do a "quad" anchor with a regular masterpoint knot. That same BD 240 cm sling would be ideal. That way one coud compare the "quad" with something that does not equalize. Same amount material in both test. The sling x was very good but it extends so much that the belayer is going to fall from the stance. So please do just a normal overhand knot. I bet it's actually stronger even when pulled in angle like 45 degrees or so.
You're saying the dyneema is slipping at 9kn which to me sounds like plenty of strength I mean there are cams and nuts that I use that supposedly break it 5 kilonewtons and 6 kilonewtons and I trust those all the time and if I'm taking a whip that generates 9 kilonewtons of force I probably have other issues to worry about
My climbing partner sets our walk up TR anchor with webbing. He uses a water knot to make the loops and easily equalize it using 3 webbing loops to build it. Can you test a webbing TR anchor with water knots? Fyi we're not anchoring on bolts but using pro so however you're able to test this, maybe outdoors?
I grind my teeth when he says "newton" with a "hard T" lol damn
why do you leave this one "keeper" strand unclipped?
Can you break a quad anchor made with a Nylon sling? Please?
Fun stuff. Super strong stuff! Dynamometer? Do you mean a load cell?
Guys try that again because you already put force on that sling tape 👍
Would the 4 strand sliding x with limiting knots be stronger than a standard sliding x without limiting knots?
The look of fear in Ryan's eyes when he has to figure out what category of break testing this video goes into is priceless 😂
Could you take a double length sling and monkey chain it with a carabiner on both ends?
Remember everyone: before you can setup any anchor for use, you must first perform the test in this video on the gear your going to use to measure it’s breaking point.
How would two figure8 knots do on this quad?
Would be very interested to see if clipping a hanger above or below the rap rings affects their strength. Seems to be quite a debate among climbers (see mountain post thread: www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/114260050/anchor-bolts-clip-above-or-below-chainquicklink#:~:text=He%20said%20you%20should%20always,to%20set%20up%20the%20rappel.), so would be very cool to get some actual testing numbers!
I am new to your channel maybe you’re all really tested different brand ropes but how about Beal - blue water - tendon and most common brands 👍
What Marmot jacket is that?
TEST SUGGESTION
A double overhand knot in dyneema sling to reduce slipping.
Note 1: a double overhand knot is asymmetric, so needs two tests done in two possible load directions.
Note 2: double overhand knot not to be confused with two stacked overhand knots. Here is a video to clarify which knot I am talking about, though video does not show in a sling, but gives you the idea.
th-cam.com/video/D1an3hZ9zgU/w-d-xo.html
240cm continuouse loop of amsteele rigged same way as last test would be cool
like splice 5mm amsteel?
@@HowNOT2 yes and maybe 6mm as well
103 kN WOW Sliding X is Bomber ! The Quad is dumber !
Guys, you need to understand that testing break strengths on huge crane shackles with large diameters the same as a climbing carribiner/screwgate with a small diameter. This is because the strain on the slings/rope etc is maximised on the outside radius of the curve it is going round. This is why knots are very bad, because they have very small/tight radius's for example. A bit more thinking and a bit less larking about would mean you test things more consistently and logically.
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OK OK OK, so I'm only half way through but stupid or not surely you test them without a knot?! WTF. then we know what they actually break at and if putting a knot in them makes em weaker, I suspect it does as they always snap at the knot. Yorn.
I know this makes em 'super good enough' anyway but just maybe this would lead to breakthrough with technique and safest way to use? A possible forward step, such as the way they are sewn or the Edelrid aramid cord being more widely used?
Just sayin, cool test though and surprised they outdid a rope in the first part even with knots in, scary stuff even if it was over 4 tonne!
Edit: So just watched the interesting bit at the end and NOT tying knots in dyneema for the win? makes em super strength all of a sudden? some way of creating redundancy and the massively bomber? Yep. And it only cut because it slipped across the shackle so would probably be more? Mint!
This comment is almost impossible to read fyi lol.
Why don’t you make money on you tube?
You mean just because you don’t have enough views for it to add up to much?
I don´t get it. What do you proof or test, when going way over every real life loads ? Destroying new and good stuff just for fun then ? I don´t care about asetup being 5KN stronger or not, when its more than twice over every real life load anyway.
For me, these tests confirm the margin of safety in each setup......peace of mind....and fun to watch.....nice to see this stuff play out
dude become an arborist...climbing trees on srt/drt is so much more fun than this shit
I can't, they don't grow past my desired height to climb :)
Sorry, Ryan, of all the testing I've seen so far this one is useless. A quad is a noob invention for those that don't know basic rope handling. No need for it whatsoever with good bolts. They are impossible to break under climbing loads and should be tied into with the rope.
So what do you use for an anchor when there's no bolts to tie into?
@@doogsm6013 THE ROPE.
So, this is not specifically a break request, but I think it would be useful for you to put together a sort of "executive summary" for your findings about which anchors are best used for which application and which materials optimize for which use case - supported with your data. Might be good fodder for a series that shouldn't cost you more money ;)
I would be curious to see this test repeated with a nylon sling to compare strength and knot slippage.
we could, but we also did it in 6mm accessory cord released a few weeks ago
Would the sewn nylon sling not be super gooder enough? No knots to slip or reduce strength. (double sliding x) But, you have beat the quad anchor to submission. I am confident enough in these systems, no more break tests are really needed, but they are sure fun to watch!
I want to see you do testing on poor cam placements.
coming soooooon
@@HowNOT2 Quad anchors and sketchy trad placements coming up?!?! Best channel ever.
Just be my second lol 😂
I fold my long sling in two a bit differently so it's always redundant no matter which side gets unclipped. Of course there's a potential for human error though.
I think this is an excellent point that need to be clarified. There are two ways of folding a sling in two. And the way you choose makes a difference. This comment should be highlighted.
You know what I want next! 2 separate side by side sliding x slings. Let's get 103 with redundancy !
i'm definitely going to play with the 2 separate sliding x slings!
@@HowNOT2 its so easy to setup and it should be super good enough! as long as the slings are exactly the same size it should come close to the same numbers too.
Well that makes me feel safer
This was an awesome video. I am extremely surprised by the results of the quad anchor. I wanted to ask why we shouldn't use these slings to make a 100kn Highline anchor? (Other than abbrassion)..Cheers Bobby and Ryan!! :D
The videos are great. I bought a bag of your coffee!
Thanks for this awesome video! :))
You used 10mm 22kn
Would it be just as good with 8mm 22kn ?
I have a bunch of gear I'd love to see you destroy. How can I send that to you
send pics! facebook.com/ryan.jenks.35
I remember learning that an undressed figure 8 is actually marginally stronger than a dressed one? Would be cool to see some tests.
What do you mean by "undressed"?
Guys please please please get affiliate links going for people to buy slings and carabiners and stuff you test on Amazon or elsewhere so you can earn money that way, unless you are trying to avoid giving big websites more money. Just a thought for supporting your channel!
Outstanding as usual!