My favorite looking 4K discs are pretty much all older movies that were shot on 35mm film and then remastered from the negative... Especially ones that don't rely on any significant CGI!
I literally just got home from seeing this in IMAX at the AMC Lincoln Square theater in NYC. I was very impressed. Almost looked like film. This is the best I've seen the film since it was in theaters. Fincher said in a recent article that there is one scene where he used AI because it featured a slight camera move that he didn't like. He said no one will notice what he did. Don't know what scene it is, but I'm sure when fans compare the UHD and blu-ray they'll figure it out. That 7.1 mix I think goes back to the DVD era where they had a DTS ES and Dolby EX mix that probably wasn't approved by Fincher. New Line Cinema just like Lionsgate had a habit of remixing films for every new sound format on DVD and blu-ray. Very often without the input of the original sound designers. Fincher almost always has his sound designer Ren Kylce do a near remix optimized for home video. Criterion's The Game blu-ray features the original theatrical 5.1 and an alternate mix by Kylce for home theater. The most faithful home video mix for Seven is probably the first Kylce did for the Criterion laser disc, but unfortunately it features a very low Dolby AC-3 bit rate. The original theatrical release also featured a few 35mm prints in some cities that used a unique silver retention process. Everything was done photochemically back then and this was before digital grading. With today's technology they can probably recreate that digitally in the theater and on the UHD.
Having seen Seven so many times as a projectionist, the screens you showed of the 4K version look much more faithful in color to the 35mm print than the more blue-looking Blu-ray shots you showed. I think I still have the 5.1 DTS LaserDisc and I recall there was a DTS-ES 6.1 channel DVD as well. Then a 7.1 channel Blu-ray. They kept adding one more channel to the mix. Now they're like "Nah, less is more". When 8K Blu-ray comes around it'll only be in stereo.
I have the DTS-ES 6.1 DVD set, and it was a "near field mix" made especially for DVD. There was even a special feature on Disc 2 that allowed you to compare the different audio mixes in the opening credits sequence.
As per reviewer Randy Miller at Blu-ray “The good news is that this total remix was created by original sound designer Ren Klyce using the original audio stems and apparently is closer in tone to its theatrical counterpart... and while those previous changes are now "back to normal" or at least less noticeable, the missing "Greed" dialogue is still gone. But in all other respects this is a truly well-crafted track and one created with home theaters in mind, utilizing strong dynamic range but still mixed in a way that won't have you reaching for your remote during every other scene. From crisp dialogue to creeping discrete effects and the original score by Howard Shore”
Yeah, Se7en and the Usual Suspects were released the same year. I have the 4K of Suspects and never got round to watching it. I guess that's what happens when you're a physical media hoarder.
I’m a fan of mixing in whatever format the film was originally mixed in for the same reasons I oppose frame interpolation. That’s not going to be a popular statement among home theater enthusiasts, but I don’t care, I’m right.
I really prefer this as well. At the very least, I don't agree with down-scoring soundtrack just because there is not a remix to a higher channel format than the original mix for a release.
In the comparison images are the labels swapped? I ask because the top images look clearer with better contrast that the bottom images. The !!!K blu ray (bottom) look much more washed out.
I have the 5.1 DTS laserdisc and it has more noticeable LFE. Ld's tended to use theatrical mixes. I found the blu ray a bit lacking in comparison even though it has more channels. So looking forward to this uhd bd.
Back in 1995 theaters didn't have digital projectors so this version is the best it's ever looked. I did notice back then how dark and grungy Se7en looked. I think the 1080P is a great transfer so the 4K should look even better. Already ordered my Steele book can't wait to get it next week.
with reference to the 5.1 audio track, on Seven, it may not have been available at the time of authoring, this happened with World War Z from Kino Lorber that was 7.1 on blu ray but the 4K was 5.1, due to the studio not sending them the 7.1 mix, however it's still an excellent audio mix, ultimately doesn't disappoint 😉
Just watched the 4K discs and thought it was a really good looking transfer. In fact, this disc had some of the highest bit rates I have seen in a while. It was often hitting 98Mbps! I can’t compare the audio to previous versions since I don’t own any but thought the audio track was pretty good and immersive. I wonder if they backed off on the audio (7.1 to 5.1) in order to make for more space for the video information on the 100 GB disc. If this is the case then I think it was a good choice because the video looks really really good.
I'm a little sad they didn't open up the matting for this release. Apparently there was a release in Canada that was open matte. Was going to see the IMAX release but it seems like it'll just be this aspect ratio on an IMAX screen.
So many mixed opinions on this 4K. I’m watching it in IMAX with Laser GT on the UK’s widest screen on Friday then will check out the 4K myself. Cheers.
Yeah, I saw this in theater on opening weekend way back in 1995 and I don't remember how it looked. But I remember how great it sounded, the theater that I saw it at had just installed the then brand new Dolby Digital surround sound, so I was in audio heaven at the time. I'm very disappointed that Fincher decided to not do an Atmos remix. But I think he prefers 5.1 mix since his newest movie, The Killer, is also in 5.1 even though it's on Netflix.
calling something 4k does not mean it looks like 4k, if you ever have seen real 4k then you notice that nothing gets close, 1440p is the closest resolution i seen, and CGI is rendered at 1080p at modern movies.
World War Z springs to mind with the same audio treatment , they went from fantastic DTS-HD 7.1 on the Blu-ray to the 5.1 on the 4K. Said the same thing that it had been restored, but when you compare the two mixes the 7.1 is clearly superior.
the video transfer has some new CGI ''CGI tweaks: Se7en arrives with a few revisions overseen by director David Fincher, a noted visual perfectionist who has the curious mindset of being faithful to a film's original version in some ways but clearly not in others. He's historically been fairly subtle with his use of CGI (either the first time around or with later revisions like these) and prefers it to be undetectable... but the existence of multiple earlier home video editions and a little bit of sleuthing means that Fincher can't get away with everything. Simply put, these changes range from sensible (altering a wide shot of Kevin Spacey's stand-in near the end so it more resembles the actor, adding in a few clouds to tie together scenes shot at different times) to oddly obsessive ("fixing" a burnt-out light bulb in David and Tracy's apartment) and even downright strange (adding an open door to one scene, as well as stray power lines to an establishing shot). A few targeted AI-assisted tweaks are also present and were mostly done to aid shot tracking on a few occasions. On their own these individual elements aren't distracting or even noticeable, but seeing them side-by- side with earlier versions will lead to a full range of mixed reactions depending on the viewer's opinion of such digital alterations. they had better put more focus on other things'' ''that previous 7.1 mix was reportedly altered from earlier releases including of course the original theatrical 5.1 and featured changes such as minor panning boosts, a few scraps of missing incidental dialogue -- such as disparaging remarks against Pitt's character on his way to the "Greed" crime scene -- and, perhaps most blatantly, a ton of reverb and boosting to the opening credits' unforgettable version of Nine Inch Nails' "Closer". The good news is that this total remix was created by original sound designer Ren Klyce using the original audio stems and apparently is closer in tone to its theatrical counterpart... and while those previous changes are now "back to normal" or at least less noticeable, the missing "Greed" dialogue is still gone. But in all other respects this is a truly well-crafted track and one created with home theaters in mind, utilizing strong dynamic range but still mixed in a way that won't have you reaching for your remote during every other scene''. so they fixed the video nobody asked for or complained on and left the mistakes in the audio would been more happy with better audio and a Atmos mix, than these tweaks and if you want to show off on the video part, just had used DV this movie was worth the best possible
I liked this transfer, they kept the faint grain layer, didn’t try to push too much 4K high res smoothing in your face. But focused more on bringing out details in the darker areas. Watched the 4k disc version with DTS 7.1 that sounded very good for what it is.. but again with all those rain scenes a Atmos mix would have been welcomed.
Yeah, I was perplexed by their choice to go back to 5.1 with this one. I'm guessing that Fincher wanted to recreate the original theatrical mix, like Nolan did with his 4K discs... but, then again, they had the original elements in their disposal, so they could have EASILY done an Atmos mix, like The Matrix Trilogy did.
Got this before Xmas. Here in Europe we get the Blu-ray with the 4K. Seen in US there's only the 4K🤔. Yeah i think it's a good looking transfer but wish for Dolby Vision instead.
The 5.1 mix is the original theatrical audio mix. The 7.1 was a newer mix with so many problems, including missing sound effects, missing dialogue and other issues… thats why
The pirated version will have DTS-HD 7.1 , its stupid that the UHD blurays come out with lesser features when the pirates are adding things like dolby vison to disc movies injected from the streaming version as it fits perfectly. Hopefully one day they will learn to put maximum effort in so pirated versions wont seem as appealing.
Lol this is such an uninformed comment. The 7.1 mix has missing sound effects, missing dialogue and other issues. The 5.1 is the original theatrical mix issue free
@jeffcunningham0389 I like options, you could argue why are the better laser disc audio versions not on new uhd discs yet are put on the pirated versions I have access to but like I said, I like options so I'd like the 7.1 version as well as the better 5.1
@jeffcunningham0389 Audio English DTS-HD MA 5.1 @ 2584kbps (Original DTS Surround Mix) Audio 2 English DTS-HD MA 5.1 @ 4073kbps (5.1 Surround Remix (2024)) Audio 3 English DTS ES XLL 7.1 @ 5447kbps (7.1 Surround Remix (2010)) From the just released pirated version
Fine want to do a new 5.1 mix? But why couldnt they provide the 7.1 aswell...and if your going to upgrade the picture. Why not create a new atmos mix..stupid studios again!
The DVD was also one of the original DTS-ES mixes with a center surround channel. Can’t believe you didn’t mention that. You of all people, with a center surround!
Aaaah man! I was so looking forward to the full package - 4K + Atmos... I don't know if I should double dip... might put the Blu ray on my projector and see how it looks and take things from there 😢
@@gab7344 a “quick cash grab” this is not. Fincher has been working on this release for a long time. He doesn’t seem to support Atmos/X mixes for his films.
I love how this guy says I’m not here to talk about the movie. Have a fucking opinion you do have one well I will say it. The film is a fucking masterpiece.
I like how he cuts to the chase about the presentation aspects. A review of the movie itself has nothing to do with Blu-ray, 4K, etc etc. That's an entirely different discussion and not really why we're here.
My favorite looking 4K discs are pretty much all older movies that were shot on 35mm film and then remastered from the negative... Especially ones that don't rely on any significant CGI!
I literally just got home from seeing this in IMAX at the AMC Lincoln Square theater in NYC. I was very impressed. Almost looked like film. This is the best I've seen the film since it was in theaters. Fincher said in a recent article that there is one scene where he used AI because it featured a slight camera move that he didn't like. He said no one will notice what he did. Don't know what scene it is, but I'm sure when fans compare the UHD and blu-ray they'll figure it out.
That 7.1 mix I think goes back to the DVD era where they had a DTS ES and Dolby EX mix that probably wasn't approved by Fincher. New Line Cinema just like Lionsgate had a habit of remixing films for every new sound format on DVD and blu-ray. Very often without the input of the original sound designers. Fincher almost always has his sound designer Ren Kylce do a near remix optimized for home video. Criterion's The Game blu-ray features the original theatrical 5.1 and an alternate mix by Kylce for home theater. The most faithful home video mix for Seven is probably the first Kylce did for the Criterion laser disc, but unfortunately it features a very low Dolby AC-3 bit rate.
The original theatrical release also featured a few 35mm prints in some cities that used a unique silver retention process. Everything was done photochemically back then and this was before digital grading. With today's technology they can probably recreate that digitally in the theater and on the UHD.
I'm so thankful they changed the original line "What's in the cardboard container?" to "What's in the box?"
Did you call Kevin Spacey Keyser? 😂
I caught that too 😂😂
0:32 someones mobile phone gets a text message on vibrate. Happens later as well. Just shows what you can hear without an ATMOS mix haha.
Having seen Seven so many times as a projectionist, the screens you showed of the 4K version look much more faithful in color to the 35mm print than the more blue-looking Blu-ray shots you showed. I think I still have the 5.1 DTS LaserDisc and I recall there was a DTS-ES 6.1 channel DVD as well. Then a 7.1 channel Blu-ray. They kept adding one more channel to the mix. Now they're like "Nah, less is more". When 8K Blu-ray comes around it'll only be in stereo.
Reduce the speaker channels so Probably they thought they save 1 cent on disk space.
Good to know it's more faithful to the 35mm
I have the DTS-ES 6.1 DVD set, and it was a "near field mix" made especially for DVD. There was even a special feature on Disc 2 that allowed you to compare the different audio mixes in the opening credits sequence.
As per reviewer Randy Miller at Blu-ray “The good news is that this total remix was created by original sound designer Ren Klyce using the original audio stems and apparently is closer in tone to its theatrical counterpart... and while those previous changes are now "back to normal" or at least less noticeable, the missing "Greed" dialogue is still gone. But in all other respects this is a truly well-crafted track and one created with home theaters in mind, utilizing strong dynamic range but still mixed in a way that won't have you reaching for your remote during every other scene. From crisp dialogue to creeping discrete effects and the original score by Howard Shore”
Shane, you said "Keyser"! 😂 Love it!!!
Yeah, Se7en and the Usual Suspects were released the same year. I have the 4K of Suspects and never got round to watching it. I guess that's what happens when you're a physical media hoarder.
I ripped the 7.1 mix and muxed it to the new 4K and synced them very well. Now I have the ultimate version.
I was thinking the same thing
@@AFryingPanwhere do I find it?
@@r9800pro nice
Just came out of the IMAX theater watching it for the first time. I really enjoyed it. Great image and Punchy Bass
I’m a fan of mixing in whatever format the film was originally mixed in for the same reasons I oppose frame interpolation.
That’s not going to be a popular statement among home theater enthusiasts, but I don’t care, I’m right.
You are right.
I really prefer this as well. At the very least, I don't agree with down-scoring soundtrack just because there is not a remix to a higher channel format than the original mix for a release.
In the comparison images are the labels swapped? I ask because the top images look clearer with better contrast that the bottom images. The !!!K blu ray (bottom) look much more washed out.
I have the 5.1 DTS laserdisc and it has more noticeable LFE. Ld's tended to use theatrical mixes. I found the blu ray a bit lacking in comparison even though it has more channels. So looking forward to this uhd bd.
Back in 1995 theaters didn't have digital projectors so this version is the best it's ever looked. I did notice back then how dark and grungy Se7en looked. I think the 1080P is a great transfer so the 4K should look even better. Already ordered my Steele book can't wait to get it next week.
with reference to the 5.1 audio track, on Seven, it may not have been available at the time of authoring, this happened with World War Z from Kino Lorber that was 7.1 on blu ray but the 4K was 5.1, due to the studio not sending them the 7.1 mix, however it's still an excellent audio mix, ultimately doesn't disappoint 😉
THe repeat viewing on this film is very high. A masterpiece.
Glad to see the channel building up Shane keep dropping heat 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥😮💨
Just watched the 4K discs and thought it was a really good looking transfer. In fact, this disc had some of the highest bit rates I have seen in a while. It was often hitting 98Mbps! I can’t compare the audio to previous versions since I don’t own any but thought the audio track was pretty good and immersive. I wonder if they backed off on the audio (7.1 to 5.1) in order to make for more space for the video information on the 100 GB disc. If this is the case then I think it was a good choice because the video looks really really good.
that can also be why they did it they only got 100GB
Apparently from what I’ve read the 5.1 is better that were problem understanding certain words in the 7.1 mix in crucial scene
I'm a little sad they didn't open up the matting for this release. Apparently there was a release in Canada that was open matte. Was going to see the IMAX release but it seems like it'll just be this aspect ratio on an IMAX screen.
I got that one and i don't like it.
So many mixed opinions on this 4K. I’m watching it in IMAX with Laser GT on the UK’s widest screen on Friday then will check out the 4K myself.
Cheers.
Yeah, I saw this in theater on opening weekend way back in 1995 and I don't remember how it looked. But I remember how great it sounded, the theater that I saw it at had just installed the then brand new Dolby Digital surround sound, so I was in audio heaven at the time. I'm very disappointed that Fincher decided to not do an Atmos remix. But I think he prefers 5.1 mix since his newest movie, The Killer, is also in 5.1 even though it's on Netflix.
calling something 4k does not mean it looks like 4k, if you ever have seen real 4k then you notice that nothing gets close, 1440p is the closest resolution i seen, and CGI is rendered at 1080p at modern movies.
The greatest trick Keyser ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist
I found a 35mm film scan that looks as close as you can get to seeing it in 1995 in cinemas.
Happy New Year Shane.
World War Z springs to mind with the same audio treatment , they went from fantastic DTS-HD 7.1 on the Blu-ray to the 5.1 on the 4K. Said the same thing that it had been restored, but when you compare the two mixes the 7.1 is clearly superior.
Get the collectors edition. It got 7.1 DTS , but it is expensive . But I loved it
the video transfer has some new CGI
''CGI tweaks: Se7en arrives with a few revisions overseen by director David Fincher, a noted visual perfectionist who has the curious mindset of being faithful to a film's original version in some ways but clearly not in others. He's historically been fairly subtle with his use of CGI (either the first time around or with later revisions like these) and prefers it to be undetectable... but the existence of multiple earlier home video editions and a little bit of sleuthing means that Fincher can't get away with everything. Simply put, these changes range from sensible (altering a wide shot of Kevin Spacey's stand-in near the end so it more resembles the actor, adding in a few clouds to tie together scenes shot at different times) to oddly obsessive ("fixing" a burnt-out light bulb in David and Tracy's apartment) and even downright strange (adding an open door to one scene, as well as stray power lines to an establishing shot). A few targeted AI-assisted tweaks are also present and were mostly done to aid shot tracking on a few occasions. On their own these individual elements aren't distracting or even noticeable, but seeing them side-by- side with earlier versions will lead to a full range of mixed reactions depending on the viewer's opinion of such digital alterations.
they had better put more focus on other things''
''that previous 7.1 mix was reportedly altered from earlier releases including of course the original theatrical 5.1 and featured changes such as minor panning boosts, a few scraps of missing incidental dialogue -- such as disparaging remarks against Pitt's character on his way to the "Greed" crime scene -- and, perhaps most blatantly, a ton of reverb and boosting to the opening credits' unforgettable version of Nine Inch Nails' "Closer". The good news is that this total remix was created by original sound designer Ren Klyce using the original audio stems and apparently is closer in tone to its theatrical counterpart... and while those previous changes are now "back to normal" or at least less noticeable, the missing "Greed" dialogue is still gone. But in all other respects this is a truly well-crafted track and one created with home theaters in mind, utilizing strong dynamic range but still mixed in a way that won't have you reaching for your remote during every other scene''.
so they fixed the video nobody asked for or complained on and left the mistakes in the audio
would been more happy with better audio and a Atmos mix, than these tweaks and if you want to show off on the video part, just had used DV
this movie was worth the best possible
I liked this transfer, they kept the faint grain layer, didn’t try to push too much 4K high res smoothing in your face. But focused more on bringing out details in the darker areas.
Watched the 4k disc version with DTS 7.1 that sounded very good for what it is.. but again with all those rain scenes a Atmos mix would have been welcomed.
Keyser??
Don't you mean K-Pax.
Definitely adding this to my collection of Sev7en copies. This will make copy number 3 lol Criterion LaserDisc, DTS LaserDisc, and now this one.
0:32 someones mobile phone gets a text message on vibrate. Happens later as well. Just shows what you can hear without an ATMOS mix haha.
I've got a 16k VHS in 9.4
Neural-X or Auro3D upmixing will do this movie justice. Its not one that needs a bombastic Atmos mix.
Amazon says my 4k disc will be here Tuesday the 7th. Will be seeing the theater version tomorrow at the IMax.
Yeah, I was perplexed by their choice to go back to 5.1 with this one. I'm guessing that Fincher wanted to recreate the original theatrical mix, like Nolan did with his 4K discs... but, then again, they had the original elements in their disposal, so they could have EASILY done an Atmos mix, like The Matrix Trilogy did.
Yeah, and I have a feeling they're going to release a Dolby Vision or Atmos version later on.
Excited to experience this transfer. Great idea for the Remux too lol.
Shane, do you use a up mixer on 5.1 materials and if so what mixer do you use on the Trinnov?
Got this before Xmas. Here in Europe we get the Blu-ray with the 4K. Seen in US there's only the 4K🤔. Yeah i think it's a good looking transfer but wish for Dolby Vision instead.
Another Subject could u do a Video on The Cabasse Murano Altos They are so good?
Great review , love this movie 👌👌👌👌👌
I still have my US flipper dvd of this movie .
The 5.1 mix is the original theatrical audio mix. The 7.1 was a newer mix with so many problems, including missing sound effects, missing dialogue and other issues… thats why
Bit like Gladiator having 7:1 dots mix on dvd . Then getting 5.1 mix on blu ray and 4k 🤷♂️
Isn't the bus driver from Speed a library security guard in this one. And what kind of library needs four security guards?
i think your reasoning is spot on
Keyser? I don’t think Mr. Soze was in this movie.
The pirated version will have DTS-HD 7.1 , its stupid that the UHD blurays come out with lesser features when the pirates are adding things like dolby vison to disc movies injected from the streaming version as it fits perfectly. Hopefully one day they will learn to put maximum effort in so pirated versions wont seem as appealing.
Lol this is such an uninformed comment. The 7.1 mix has missing sound effects, missing dialogue and other issues. The 5.1 is the original theatrical mix issue free
@jeffcunningham0389 I'm not saying it is better or worse but it should be on the new uhd disc.
@@stekelly1980 why should a messed up, incorrect audio version be on the disc?
@jeffcunningham0389 I like options, you could argue why are the better laser disc audio versions not on new uhd discs yet are put on the pirated versions I have access to but like I said, I like options so I'd like the 7.1 version as well as the better 5.1
@jeffcunningham0389 Audio English DTS-HD MA 5.1 @ 2584kbps
(Original DTS Surround Mix)
Audio 2 English DTS-HD MA 5.1 @ 4073kbps
(5.1 Surround Remix (2024))
Audio 3 English DTS ES XLL 7.1 @ 5447kbps
(7.1 Surround Remix (2010))
From the just released pirated version
This movie needed an ATMOS track especially with all the rain! The audio was seriously disappointing!
Did you not see the revisionist changes I this 4K? It's not the same film from 1995 by a mile!
Fine want to do a new 5.1 mix? But why couldnt they provide the 7.1 aswell...and if your going to upgrade the picture. Why not create a new atmos mix..stupid studios again!
Too bad no Dolby Vision for this great film
It still looks great.
The DVD was also one of the original DTS-ES mixes with a center surround channel. Can’t believe you didn’t mention that. You of all people, with a center surround!
the sound thing could be becurse the 7.1 whas not good enuge to get them to 4k but the 5.1 whas ok just a reasen
Immersive
Soundstage
Bass Response
Shadow Detail
Color Palette
HDR
Black Levels
Mux (?) 🤨
Aaaah man! I was so looking forward to the full package - 4K + Atmos... I don't know if I should double dip... might put the Blu ray on my projector and see how it looks and take things from there 😢
A classic.
My main reason to upgrade is for audio, so many new 4k upgrades picture only. Seems like a quick cash grab. I will stick to the Blu ray.
@@gab7344 a “quick cash grab” this is not. Fincher has been working on this release for a long time. He doesn’t seem to support Atmos/X mixes for his films.
Is there such thing as a grain hater? Or is this a generation thing ?
I love how this guy says I’m not here to talk about the movie. Have a fucking opinion you do have one well I will say it. The film is a fucking masterpiece.
Nope! The Game is a masterpiece
@@jimcameron1234 I actully like the game even more than this movie, incredibly fun to watch.
I like how he cuts to the chase about the presentation aspects. A review of the movie itself has nothing to do with Blu-ray, 4K, etc etc. That's an entirely different discussion and not really why we're here.
There were more colors back in 95 😳 I think 🤔 this is better than kaleidoscape version 🫨