god grant me the serenity to accept the things i should not render, the skill to render the things i should, and the wisdom to know the difference jokes aside this video is beyond helpful. i need to have a more concrete goal at the start of a piece so i can make sure every piece of it actually works together
Despite being an experienced concept artist, and relatively proficient in both rendering styles, The struggle is very real in terms of developing my own personal art, finding what i want to do and say.. You actually were one of my favorite artist 15-20 years ago that I was aspiring to , and Im rediscovering you now through this channel.. Thank you so much for it, and for sharing your experience, there is so much food for thought, and I wanted you to know this video , among others, has been very helpful to me! I hope/wish the amount of viewership meets your expectations, and deservingly matches your talent, and generosity on display! Cheers! :)
There's something that's come up within the digital era that has motivated that rendering focus that you hit on: because you can get a lot of resolution and color detail into every image, you don't have to compromise on the storytelling functions of the illustration to add a rendered look. The traditional comic book look is what it is, in part, because it's so important to use a style that retains figure, face, and hands all in the same frame and gets the "first read" correct. When you lose that, you start to lose the acting of the character and the story becomes less legible. Early comic illustrators like McKay or Foster did aim for high detail, but the print reproduction and available tools guided them towards use of shape to this end - the "four-color" process always positioned color as a bonus. The later generations of strip artists grew even more comfortable with animation-style simplifications. While you could use chiraroscuro rendering and Marvel-style dynamic cameras to make dramatic, form-oriented black and white images, it's difficult to find an example of a comic book before the 90's that would do that for every single panel - eventually you have scenes of people talking, and you need to get their expressions across, and line and shape and symbolism does that more cleanly and efficiently. Once we added digital tools and prints, it became easier both to render everything in full color and to build it in strict proportions, without making it completely illegible to the reader. We have a lot of lanky characters with small, detailed faces and hands, even in animation. And we have a lot of illustrations that are rendered more extensively than in the past. But it's also stretched everyone thin to "race against the machine" and flesh out every pixel. If you add the detail you often lose the quick read, making an image that works better when zoomed in, but worse on the page. So there are a lot of digital images now that can't decide what they were trying to be good at and drop some part of it on the floor, instead of being guided by the technology to do one thing well. And when I look at my own work, I'm convinced that it's usually better to stick to traditional just because I'm juggling fewer things: some materials let me render more effectively, others make me more fastidious about line quality. That is, they're better for my own learning. If I want to take extra effort for polish it can be taken to digital and composited, but I shouldn't confuse a *production* with a *process*, and I think it's really easy to make that assumption when production has been normalized into "just add a new layer".
Your videos are so helpful, it often approach essential topics that other channels do not. Thank you so much, Tim! As a Line and color artist, this channel is not a codex, but a bible for me :D
Great video, Tim! About the closing thoughts. Line Drawing is something that is at my core, and I do feel the feeling of "I should be doing such and such". I am getting past that feeling and finally embracing what feels right to me :) Thank you for the video!
Coming from Industrial design up until I reached the point where I could produce photoeealism from imagination I was obsessed with it. After I got there I have been free to explore everything else, there is just so much more out there. It's fun to play around with them as they present new challenges. Discovering Notan vs Chiaroscuro and all the possible combinations opened the flood gates for me. Taking a class with Nate Wrag on Character design for animation helped me to understand how you canlcreate styles by choosing what tools to use where. Great video, I always love learning new perspectives on approaching the creatove process.
I struggle constantly with figuring out which "style" to lean more toward. It's a back and forth battle with trying to keep my art more consistent style wise lol. Thank you for posting this it helps to know this is something a lot of us struggle with and takes time to figure out!
Really appreciated how you cleared things up about form and shape-based art styles. This is one of my favorite videos from you! I always vibed so hard with the line art style so I appreciate that you are shedding more light about it, which I don't think as many other pro artists are doing. Thanks :))
Now this is insightful and helpful ! I started feeling this duality in my work a while ago (the same "I need to make these shadows weaker or I will loose the shapes" you mention), so it was awesome to hear you put it in such clear terms. It was affecting everything, from sketching to the rendering. Now i get it!!! :D Thank you so much!
I've had the problem too since I started with painting but like comics too. I'm not a fan of the kind of perfect, plastic looking colour Marvel and stuff go for now. I really like the way you've approached it. I hope you keep doing these videos. I've learned a bunch from here even after years of drawing and painting. Your video about adapting Loomis method to other creatures etc is so good. I never seen anyone else teach that
What you call benign lighting I call default lighting and your topic in this current video was good and often commented on back in the days when I posted my paintings on an art forum; memories. I like the default (or benign) when I make designs or place images that will later have lighting versions where there will be different lighting scenarios. I love benign lighting because it shows a character, object, shape, scene in its purest form without lighting and effecting it with cast shadows, etc. and shows primarily an emphasis on the design of forms and their specific geometrical characteristics. I love this topic and it's always good to have a conversation about it. Dynamic lighting is when I place shapes in a scene while telling the story itself (film action) and then the scene needs to be dynamic lighting (if such are the specifics of the scenario during the story telling) in order for the scene to catch the eye of the viewers.
Hey Tim, this is s great video. I think you mentioned a theme here that lots of aspiring artists struggle with. I've been just working on a comic and I was thinking about how to color it and this video made it a lot easier! Thanks bro
Once again Tim ..brilliant presentation. Yes "doubt about self creativity " , "am I good enough?" is everyone's constant challenge during life. But yes you are so right ... everything, every moment is for exploration, invention, practice, etc... imbued with our own unique creative perspective. excuse pun. Your vid arrived at the right time as I am tossing up what style to use to illustrate my new novel. Thank you ... what you have said helped clear some of my style choices. best wishes keep these honest teaching videos coming ... they are so valuable to us all.
So glad you made this video! Im just starting out with rendering and its a big challenge for me so far. I want to get better but now I feel like a have a little less pressure thanks to your advice.
This video was just what I needed right now. Thank you. I definitely lean towards 'old school' cartoon-style drawing. I really love focusing on shapes and lines in my work. But, I do want to improve my painting/rendering skills so that I can be more versatile. Looking forward to experimenting.
The comic rendering at 20:18 looks very much taken from an animation, where they used to make the backgrounds look great and painterly, but static, with the foreground animated characters look very cartoony. As such, this style has nostalgic value, so I like it a lot.
This is was enlightening on some of my current reflexions about what direction should go / aim for and what could be my style. As I am intermediate but willing to go forward, this comes in handy. Thank you!
Wow, this is awesome! I have a very cartoony stile and I always strugggle with all the things I thought I have to learn and master, especially rendering. I never paid attention to the fact, that the people I try to learn from ALL have a painted stile. This is kind of a huge relief because I know now that a very subtle shadow and light is not necessarily a lack of technique but a simple question of style. At least thats how I understand it. But still, light and shadow is a very fascinating subject. Thanks for your video!
Thank you for saying this. I knew I had to practice my line details and hatchwork, but I kept trying to get better at rendering when I really should just be focusing more on my lines since I also have a very clean line style. I guess I just needed someone else to say it for it to really solidify in my mind.
Thanks Tim, awesome video as always. I am struggling on my current project because my art director wants me to do very realistic renders and with lots of details but I am more like a stylised and naturally when creating the concepts it comes a bit cartoony. So I have to push that realism and feel like a struggle and the progress slow down quite a bit.
This is a topic ive been trying to wrap my head around for the last year and half and theres so much that was cleared up because of this video. Thank you so much.
Thank you for this video! I feel like you were addressing something I've been slowly trying to learn and address. Form vs shape is something that I certainly want to play around with. Honestly, the pirate pages really spoke to me style-wise - I like the linework, with a FEEL of some lighting. I'll probably have to watch it again - lots of feelings of "ooh this is what I've been trying to get" along with feeling like haven't quite got it. But I really appreciate hearing of your journey!!! Also, the parts about how different styles may seem "better" because more realistic, but allowing ourselves to not need to go that way is really nice.
Great video, as always, dude. For the longest time, my strength has been my line work and cartoony stylized art, but when I switched to digital 2 years ago, I wanted to ditch the line art and go fully rendered so my art is definitely a mix between shape and form as line work still is heavily involved in my process but is mainly used as a guide for me to figure out the form as I'm rendering.
Really interesting video Tim! Thank you. I'm also struggling with my style because also I feel pushed to "render" for the industry but I like more the line and volum, tryng to find a middle point. You're video and words inspired me a lot. Thanks!
What a remarkably well-timed video! I have been struggling with the very exact issue for the past few months as I attempt to start my own comic book. Painted styles really appeal to me, I love the ability to craft an ethereal look. Comic Book style though, there are ways to express certain things like action, which I really like as well. I'm not a classically trained artist, only ever learned the basics during High School art class and an Art 101 course in College. Self-taught in all else, otherwise! I admit that I am far lacking in handling designs of landscapes and architecture, characters are about what I'm good at. I've been mostly panic-learning my way through Landscape and Architecture, and I still struggle with choosing between painting (building from forms) or just drawing out simple shapes and stacking those to create the architecture and landscape that I could then detail into being (in comic book style). Overall, I find perhaps I'm far too obsessed over trying to find a style, and it's been a major obstacle to realise a dream that goes back to 1992, as a young me, a stereotypical Lone Wolf, trying to achieve something perhaps beyond my own skill. Also: Anyone have tips on whether I ought to just make my own website to host my comics or use the many other social media platforms out there? I honestly have no clue how to draw in readers, I ain't a part of the cool kids club. Never was. :p Great video! There's much to learn from this and I'll be certain to take it to heart. Much appreciated, Tim!
Tintin and Asterix. Love(d) those comics. I was also influenced by them, as well as others like Lucky Luke, Blueberry, Hermann (artist) and a comic book that most people outside of the EU probably have not seen, MacCoy. Lovely advise and thank you for sharing!
Hi Tim, Just to let you know, if you read the comments, that your reflections & teaching (? - not fully sure if thats the right word) - but it has a high value, due to you mastering bringing concrete technical description & terms - together with - your experiences and give your thoughts in the native looking back, and from now "connecting the dots".. - you know, as when we have not learned a certain thing, aspect, way of looking at things or technique - we dont know and must try, and step by step - errors & successes (mostly errors) brings us forward if we have enough momentum and/or drive - or can see the small success or simply are "driven" to proceed. - In that light what you are sharing, is very valuable - to someone like me. I do know the most, having drawn & painted sine childhood, including some years very focused on hyper-realistic images, back before the computer could do a descent job, so learning the patient of laying & cutting masks & concentration when pushing the airbrush button trigger getting the right doses at the right angle, and no redo's. Anyway I ended up going the graphic design, then Art Director, and Creative director in advertising way. Ending up thinking how did I end here - wanting do do art and create fantastic narratives... So lately I have started putting together all my notes and sketches of a graphic sify novel that has formed in my head over the last 20 years, and here your good reflections and going trough different perspectives like style, composition and all, gtives me a feel of companionship and fine guidance, as In go along. Very valuable :-)
My characters’ expressions and anatomy are much better when doing linework but I really don’t enjoy the inking process and I love the feeling and storytelling that come from lighting…I’m still not sure but I think there may be a direction forward, thank you!
It might be good to realise, that even when this is a very important spectrum, often expressed as 2d/3d, silhouette or coulissen or color vs lighting, it is not the only one. another thing to consider is if you want to emphasise pattern over shape or the other way around, orderedness over randomness. Both these styles lie on a very clear part of this decision. One thing I do is let order emerge from accidental patterns, then make accidents in certain shapes deliberately and overlay form again and go back and forth. One time I will emphasis a more stylised 2d look, the other a more 3d look, I leave alone the bits I like, until there is something easy to like everywhere. Of course I could have just left it, since we are literally able to like anything.. but it is more about an education of the viewer in this aspect of humanity. I, myself, may very well be that viewer later and I may need to be guided back to a balanced state as the world seems to have overwhelmed me and insight is not clear. The tools I can create for myself, might be useful to others to.. Kind of a different approach than the whole "professional" thing.
I'm still struggling with the same issue, currently I'm approaching it conventionally like a painting where the line drawing initially gets covered, but then I put the painted rendering under the lineart after a certain point. It's only after that I do further adjustments to the painting layer so that it and the line layer above it work together. Results-wise I'm getting extremely close to something I like, but as a process it also feels very wrong? It's a little like the joke from Spongebob where he demonstrates how he draws a circle. Also, it usually means if I want to do cel shading or flat lineless styles, its in reverse order too where I start with some level of a painted render before doing some gradient map wizardry. That said, it helped me understand what specific role each line is doing, to the point I started separating parts of the linework into different folders because being able to turn off portions of it helped with identifying what to do on the painting layer.
This has been me for too many years. I wanted so badly to do the painterly style and it frustrated me no end. Once I embraced comic style im having fun again
Tim, there is no denying your gifted genius as an artist, illustrator. Your talent is undeniable. I really don’t understand where you find the time to do all you do and do these videos. I love to listen to you… BUT yes, there is always one; could you please strive to be a bit more succinct 😢 WAIT! Now that you are doing segmenting it is clear that you are listening to us mere mortals! Thank you🙏
I’ve been struggling since I actually like to render most, but all the styles I admire are Highly graphic and have almost no rendering. I was suggested to look at art nouveau to see how I might be able to have both, but it’ll be a long road
I mostly have doubt in- can concept art industry accept this mix of comic art and painterly style? I had similar idea like you- have painterly approach but also having this line work on surface. For years and year i was teaching myself how to do comic style,i had this idea of being professional comic artist. Then i discovered concept, got myself into mentorship, finally building a portfolio for gaming industry and then i caught myself of not knowing how to paint,how to render things. This is where the doubt is still in me- will companies accept artist with very comic looking style? Questioning that a lot, i started to lean into painterly style, slowly developing that as a second style so i can adapt easily into industry. The watercolor seemed like middle ground of what i want but again...will they accept it? I know it depends on which company/ clients you aim but still, is there value for artist like me? I rly liked the path you went through bcs i see myself doing same and rarely you see artist with this style showing how they got that style. Most tutorials are focused on super painterly rendering, never creating proper line base etc etc. Great video as always! Super inspiring!
Yeah I had this same concern. It was one of the reasons I was trying to learn to paint so much back then... The bottom line is 'can you provide value in the production chain'?. In my case I think because I worked in comics I developed a lot of speed, and the ability to draw scenes. This meant I could create characters and sketches fast enough to meet industry standards. And I was able to draw scenes with characters and backgrounds fast enough to be useful (as a general rule most concept artists struggle to draw both). It means that I am only suited to a small number of jobs and areas of pre production... But on the other hand I am normally well suited to those jobs that need me. This is a strategy that worked out specifically for my journey though... As I only freelance and I started doing concept work after already being established as a comic book artist and illustrator. So it would be an entirely different path if you are trying to get your foot in the door with a style like mine. I hope that helps. Happy to follow up if you have more questions.
Hey Tim, long time no commenting! I guess I get what you are saying: "don't fall into the trap of thinking more rendered or more difficult is always better". I hear you, but I also think it was just as likely for you to have settled for the more rendered style that you've developmed had your influences been different. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think there is a video waiting to be made on what are the advantages of the more rendered style as well. Hell I'd pay real money for a whole course from you teaching the perspective, form and rendering style that you developed over your journey, basically what I imagine you've already taught multiple times as a teacher one CDW. I get that you chose to simplify your art for many reasons, but other people really appreciate that side of art and would profit from learning from you, me included. At least a demo for TH-cam breaking down that other style. Pretty please. 😊 I know that you might be too occupied to put in the time for the recording of a whole course and by what I've seen on your portfolio you are fully booked well into 2025, but I really think you are the perfect person to teach something like that. And before you say that there are plenty of courses teaching perspective, form and rendering, most of them are focussed on the concept arty side of things, and I think you have a niche there focussing on the fantasy illustration/keyframe side of things. At least a video on how to apply the knowledge that we might get elsewhere for a more stylized fantasy illustration wouldn't hurt. Last thought for now: since the style you've settled on for now is more shape focussed I think we could use a video on shape design. I've heard the term many times but never got what to do besides the whole square, circle and triangle (for the villain) character that is repeated everywhere. I imagine that in a shape based style you should think a lot about shape design when you're dealing with more complex pieces. How to make your pieces more interesting though shape design. And expanding that, this shape based style is mainly used for comics/BDs, so I think there must be some narrative points that might call for a lighting scheme that would work better on a form focussed style for the emotion required. So a video on how to navigate these story beats on a shape focussed style would be great, too! Thank you for all the teaching as always! Always learning a lot from you!
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Everything in an image are two dimensional shapes. You can talk about form and light, but that would also be flat shapes. Patches of light or shadow in the end become shapes in a composition too. What makes an image effective is not a particular style or rendering. Its the combination of shapes and contrasts you apply. Shapes can be more or less attractive depending on their configuration and disposition respect one another. Communication becomes clear through the use of contrast. Composition would be the effective disposition of interesting shapes intertwining efectively with what you are trying to communicate.
Black ink lines with colored in areas looks better in comics because it is more graphic, allowing for a sense of immediacy in storytelling. Paintings are are supposed to gazed at, they create a sense of the suspension of time. That's why Alex Ross, as good as he is at painting, isn't as good at storytelling as Jack Kirby
Same. Thinking in terms of shape vs form is one I hadn't considered before, too. Usually it's presented as 'line art or painting' or 'flat vs rendered'.
@@kittykablam I still cant say that I've fully understood how to change the rendering approach to arrive at a solution. But knowing the issue will allow us to find solutions in our own ways I guess.
Goodness, Tim, I didn't realize this is where I have been a little stuck. But cool, learning. So back to your pinocchio book, page 54, 72, your water is so amazing. Why am I so stuck on it. We're you torn between realism and cartoons because it looks like you went for a photograph
As an enjoyer of art I like both. But Comic Book style is more enjoyable to produce for me despite years doing digital paintings. This is not set in stone for me however. Sometimes it is fun to paint something again.
There’s always room for improvement. I was going out side to draw from life. I would sit down to draw. People would peak over my shoulder to watch me draw, and I would get encouraging feedback. Some would ask for chump-change. Some were just plain crazy. But I felt it was better to draw from life because truth is stranger than fiction. Artist’s don’t have to slavishly adhere to reality.
For me what doesnt work is going for a rendered look but still keeping black lines. It´s all "painting" (no lines) or all cartoon style (all lines Kim jung gi style)
Hi Tim, I love your art, I try to buy your tutorial "Drawing Scenes in Line and Color! Learn to Draw Complex Scenes!" and I get a Paypal error when i try to pay. Thanks a lot
I think this video has saved me years of wasted time. I both prefer shape over form and it comes more naturally to me. Now I can focus on figuring out what matters to me.
Obsessing over rendering can put you in a stagnant place . Constantly Chasing after realism can be really exhausting and ruin your creativity and motivation
You are truly a talented artist! Respect. But yout also realy have to learn to edit your videos :D 90 percent of this video is something you repeatedly say over and over because its like a live recording. Its youtube, if you cant capture someones attention for a period of time, they just gonna leave. Just try making an actual plan for the video. The idea, and then what makes it in points. And just cut out the parts that doesnt make sense. Is that extra work? Yes! But also lots of quality. And well, you have amazing art, and skill. So. Anyway. All the best :D Edit. Also i though you are gonna drive home some kind of a point. But it kinda came out pointless in the end. You know like a lesson. This is Rendering. This is line drawing... Very messy. Very, very messy. No structure. Alsmost no point. I realy lacked a good light rendered image at the end for the people to understand the difference...
He shows a lot of examples of his work, and mainly explains how beginners try to over-render comic style drawings...he could have condensed but still good info for amateur comic artists.
Don't worry, someday you will also have people willing to listen to your thoughts because you've proven yourself through your art. Just like Tim has. BTW, I have the script for a graphic novel, would you be interested in drawing it? It would be a step in that direction.
god grant me the serenity to accept the things i should not render, the skill to render the things i should, and the wisdom to know the difference
jokes aside this video is beyond helpful. i need to have a more concrete goal at the start of a piece so i can make sure every piece of it actually works together
The dance between realistic and cartoony is a constant for me. I appreciate your insights, good video!
Despite being an experienced concept artist, and relatively proficient in both rendering styles, The struggle is very real in terms of developing my own personal art, finding what i want to do and say.. You actually were one of my favorite artist 15-20 years ago that I was aspiring to , and Im rediscovering you now through this channel.. Thank you so much for it, and for sharing your experience, there is so much food for thought, and I wanted you to know this video , among others, has been very helpful to me! I hope/wish the amount of viewership meets your expectations, and deservingly matches your talent, and generosity on display! Cheers! :)
It's amazing and and humbling to show us your old works, Tim. Really shows how consistency can add up in the long run and the growth you can achieve!
There's something that's come up within the digital era that has motivated that rendering focus that you hit on: because you can get a lot of resolution and color detail into every image, you don't have to compromise on the storytelling functions of the illustration to add a rendered look.
The traditional comic book look is what it is, in part, because it's so important to use a style that retains figure, face, and hands all in the same frame and gets the "first read" correct. When you lose that, you start to lose the acting of the character and the story becomes less legible. Early comic illustrators like McKay or Foster did aim for high detail, but the print reproduction and available tools guided them towards use of shape to this end - the "four-color" process always positioned color as a bonus. The later generations of strip artists grew even more comfortable with animation-style simplifications. While you could use chiraroscuro rendering and Marvel-style dynamic cameras to make dramatic, form-oriented black and white images, it's difficult to find an example of a comic book before the 90's that would do that for every single panel - eventually you have scenes of people talking, and you need to get their expressions across, and line and shape and symbolism does that more cleanly and efficiently.
Once we added digital tools and prints, it became easier both to render everything in full color and to build it in strict proportions, without making it completely illegible to the reader. We have a lot of lanky characters with small, detailed faces and hands, even in animation. And we have a lot of illustrations that are rendered more extensively than in the past. But it's also stretched everyone thin to "race against the machine" and flesh out every pixel. If you add the detail you often lose the quick read, making an image that works better when zoomed in, but worse on the page. So there are a lot of digital images now that can't decide what they were trying to be good at and drop some part of it on the floor, instead of being guided by the technology to do one thing well.
And when I look at my own work, I'm convinced that it's usually better to stick to traditional just because I'm juggling fewer things: some materials let me render more effectively, others make me more fastidious about line quality. That is, they're better for my own learning. If I want to take extra effort for polish it can be taken to digital and composited, but I shouldn't confuse a *production* with a *process*, and I think it's really easy to make that assumption when production has been normalized into "just add a new layer".
Your videos are so helpful, it often approach essential topics that other channels do not. Thank you so much, Tim! As a Line and color artist, this channel is not a codex, but a bible for me :D
Agreed!!
Great video, Tim!
About the closing thoughts. Line Drawing is something that is at my core, and I do feel the feeling of "I should be doing such and such".
I am getting past that feeling and finally embracing what feels right to me :)
Thank you for the video!
Coming from Industrial design up until I reached the point where I could produce photoeealism from imagination I was obsessed with it. After I got there I have been free to explore everything else, there is just so much more out there. It's fun to play around with them as they present new challenges. Discovering Notan vs Chiaroscuro and all the possible combinations opened the flood gates for me. Taking a class with Nate Wrag on Character design for animation helped me to understand how you canlcreate styles by choosing what tools to use where. Great video, I always love learning new perspectives on approaching the creatove process.
I struggle constantly with figuring out which "style" to lean more toward. It's a back and forth battle with trying to keep my art more consistent style wise lol. Thank you for posting this it helps to know this is something a lot of us struggle with and takes time to figure out!
Really appreciated how you cleared things up about form and shape-based art styles. This is one of my favorite videos from you! I always vibed so hard with the line art style so I appreciate that you are shedding more light about it, which I don't think as many other pro artists are doing. Thanks :))
Now this is insightful and helpful ! I started feeling this duality in my work a while ago (the same "I need to make these shadows weaker or I will loose the shapes" you mention), so it was awesome to hear you put it in such clear terms. It was affecting everything, from sketching to the rendering. Now i get it!!! :D Thank you so much!
I've had the problem too since I started with painting but like comics too. I'm not a fan of the kind of perfect, plastic looking colour Marvel and stuff go for now. I really like the way you've approached it.
I hope you keep doing these videos. I've learned a bunch from here even after years of drawing and painting. Your video about adapting Loomis method to other creatures etc is so good. I never seen anyone else teach that
What you call benign lighting I call default lighting and your topic in this current video was good and often commented on back in the days when I posted my paintings on an art forum; memories. I like the default (or benign) when I make designs or place images that will later have lighting versions where there will be different lighting scenarios. I love benign lighting because it shows a character, object, shape, scene in its purest form without lighting and effecting it with cast shadows, etc. and shows primarily an emphasis on the design of forms and their specific geometrical characteristics.
I love this topic and it's always good to have a conversation about it.
Dynamic lighting is when I place shapes in a scene while telling the story itself (film action) and then the scene needs to be dynamic lighting (if such are the specifics of the scenario during the story telling) in order for the scene to catch the eye of the viewers.
Hey Tim, this is s great video. I think you mentioned a theme here that lots of aspiring artists struggle with. I've been just working on a comic and I was thinking about how to color it and this video made it a lot easier! Thanks bro
Once again Tim ..brilliant presentation. Yes "doubt about self creativity " , "am I good enough?" is everyone's constant challenge during life. But yes you are so right ... everything, every moment is for exploration, invention, practice, etc... imbued with our own unique creative perspective. excuse pun. Your vid arrived at the right time as I am tossing up what style to use to illustrate my new novel. Thank you ... what you have said helped clear some of my style choices. best wishes keep these honest teaching videos coming ... they are so valuable to us all.
So glad you made this video! Im just starting out with rendering and its a big challenge for me so far. I want to get better but now I feel like a have a little less pressure thanks to your advice.
This video was just what I needed right now. Thank you. I definitely lean towards 'old school' cartoon-style drawing. I really love focusing on shapes and lines in my work. But, I do want to improve my painting/rendering skills so that I can be more versatile. Looking forward to experimenting.
The comic rendering at 20:18 looks very much taken from an animation, where they used to make the backgrounds look great and painterly, but static, with the foreground animated characters look very cartoony. As such, this style has nostalgic value, so I like it a lot.
Thank you! I find myself on this same journey, so it was great to see your progression over 20 years. I love your current style, btw!
Thanks!
This is was enlightening on some of my current reflexions about what direction should go / aim for and what could be my style. As I am intermediate but willing to go forward, this comes in handy. Thank you!
Wow, this is awesome! I have a very cartoony stile and I always strugggle with all the things I thought I have to learn and master, especially rendering. I never paid attention to the fact, that the people I try to learn from ALL have a painted stile. This is kind of a huge relief because I know now that a very subtle shadow and light is not necessarily a lack of technique but a simple question of style. At least thats how I understand it. But still, light and shadow is a very fascinating subject. Thanks for your video!
Great video. Seeing your journey against this doubt a lot of artists face is very comforting.
Great work btw!
I definitely find myself falling into the "more rendered = more valuable" trap.
Thank you for saying this. I knew I had to practice my line details and hatchwork, but I kept trying to get better at rendering when I really should just be focusing more on my lines since I also have a very clean line style. I guess I just needed someone else to say it for it to really solidify in my mind.
This was so helpful. Thank you. I think I have been bouncing back and forth stylistically for years as well and this helps me see that.
Thanks Tim, awesome video as always. I am struggling on my current project because my art director wants me to do very realistic renders and with lots of details but I am more like a stylised and naturally when creating the concepts it comes a bit cartoony. So I have to push that realism and feel like a struggle and the progress slow down quite a bit.
This is a topic ive been trying to wrap my head around for the last year and half and theres so much that was cleared up because of this video. Thank you so much.
Very cool, I was curious how you got to your style and I'm glad you made a video about it!
Thank you for this video! I feel like you were addressing something I've been slowly trying to learn and address. Form vs shape is something that I certainly want to play around with. Honestly, the pirate pages really spoke to me style-wise - I like the linework, with a FEEL of some lighting. I'll probably have to watch it again - lots of feelings of "ooh this is what I've been trying to get" along with feeling like haven't quite got it. But I really appreciate hearing of your journey!!!
Also, the parts about how different styles may seem "better" because more realistic, but allowing ourselves to not need to go that way is really nice.
Tim, thank you so much for your videos! I always learn so much and your videos are well put together. Thank you, thank you!
Great video, as always, dude. For the longest time, my strength has been my line work and cartoony stylized art, but when I switched to digital 2 years ago, I wanted to ditch the line art and go fully rendered so my art is definitely a mix between shape and form as line work still is heavily involved in my process but is mainly used as a guide for me to figure out the form as I'm rendering.
Really interesting video Tim! Thank you. I'm also struggling with my style because also I feel pushed to "render" for the industry but I like more the line and volum, tryng to find a middle point. You're video and words inspired me a lot. Thanks!
What a remarkably well-timed video! I have been struggling with the very exact issue for the past few months as I attempt to start my own comic book. Painted styles really appeal to me, I love the ability to craft an ethereal look.
Comic Book style though, there are ways to express certain things like action, which I really like as well.
I'm not a classically trained artist, only ever learned the basics during High School art class and an Art 101 course in College. Self-taught in all else, otherwise!
I admit that I am far lacking in handling designs of landscapes and architecture, characters are about what I'm good at. I've been mostly panic-learning my way through Landscape and Architecture, and I still struggle with choosing between painting (building from forms) or just drawing out simple shapes and stacking those to create the architecture and landscape that I could then detail into being (in comic book style).
Overall, I find perhaps I'm far too obsessed over trying to find a style, and it's been a major obstacle to realise a dream that goes back to 1992, as a young me, a stereotypical Lone Wolf, trying to achieve something perhaps beyond my own skill.
Also: Anyone have tips on whether I ought to just make my own website to host my comics or use the many other social media platforms out there? I honestly have no clue how to draw in readers, I ain't a part of the cool kids club. Never was. :p
Great video! There's much to learn from this and I'll be certain to take it to heart. Much appreciated, Tim!
Spitting truths from the very first second! Love the videos!
Tintin and Asterix. Love(d) those comics. I was also influenced by them, as well as others like Lucky Luke, Blueberry, Hermann (artist) and a comic book that most people outside of the EU probably have not seen, MacCoy. Lovely advise and thank you for sharing!
Hi Tim,
Just to let you know, if you read the comments, that your reflections & teaching (? - not fully sure if thats the right word) - but it has a high value, due to you mastering bringing concrete technical description & terms - together with - your experiences and give your thoughts in the native looking back, and from now "connecting the dots"..
- you know, as when we have not learned a certain thing, aspect, way of looking at things or technique - we dont know and must try, and step by step - errors & successes (mostly errors) brings us forward if we have enough momentum and/or drive - or can see the small success or simply are "driven" to proceed. - In that light what you are sharing, is very valuable - to someone like me.
I do know the most, having drawn & painted sine childhood, including some years very focused on hyper-realistic images, back before the computer could do a descent job, so learning the patient of laying & cutting masks & concentration when pushing the airbrush button trigger getting the right doses at the right angle, and no redo's.
Anyway I ended up going the graphic design, then Art Director, and Creative director in advertising way. Ending up thinking how did I end here - wanting do do art and create fantastic narratives... So lately I have started putting together all my notes and sketches of a graphic sify novel that has formed in my head over the last 20 years, and here your good reflections and going trough different perspectives like style, composition and all, gtives me a feel of companionship and fine guidance, as In go along.
Very valuable :-)
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this topic, Tim. Very useful for me. Greetings from the Faroes.
Great video. I've been struggling with this same issue recently. This video is helpful.
Man, you spoke to my soul in this one. I really needed this message rn. 🙏🏻 thank you
I really love your painterly style, i would love to see the process for that style if possible 😃
Solid work and Solid advice! Always look forward to your vids!
My characters’ expressions and anatomy are much better when doing linework but I really don’t enjoy the inking process and I love the feeling and storytelling that come from lighting…I’m still not sure but I think there may be a direction forward, thank you!
Great video Tim. It's an interesting subject and very well explained.
It might be good to realise, that even when this is a very important spectrum, often expressed as 2d/3d, silhouette or coulissen or color vs lighting, it is not the only one. another thing to consider is if you want to emphasise pattern over shape or the other way around, orderedness over randomness. Both these styles lie on a very clear part of this decision.
One thing I do is let order emerge from accidental patterns, then make accidents in certain shapes deliberately and overlay form again and go back and forth. One time I will emphasis a more stylised 2d look, the other a more 3d look, I leave alone the bits I like, until there is something easy to like everywhere. Of course I could have just left it, since we are literally able to like anything.. but it is more about an education of the viewer in this aspect of humanity. I, myself, may very well be that viewer later and I may need to be guided back to a balanced state as the world seems to have overwhelmed me and insight is not clear. The tools I can create for myself, might be useful to others to.. Kind of a different approach than the whole "professional" thing.
Thank you so much for this video! Really spoke to me!
I'm still struggling with the same issue, currently I'm approaching it conventionally like a painting where the line drawing initially gets covered, but then I put the painted rendering under the lineart after a certain point. It's only after that I do further adjustments to the painting layer so that it and the line layer above it work together.
Results-wise I'm getting extremely close to something I like, but as a process it also feels very wrong?
It's a little like the joke from Spongebob where he demonstrates how he draws a circle.
Also, it usually means if I want to do cel shading or flat lineless styles, its in reverse order too where I start with some level of a painted render before doing some gradient map wizardry.
That said, it helped me understand what specific role each line is doing, to the point I started separating parts of the linework into different folders because being able to turn off portions of it helped with identifying what to do on the painting layer.
You don't ever have to pick a single forever style.
this helped me out a lot, thank you!
This has been me for too many years. I wanted so badly to do the painterly style and it frustrated me no end. Once I embraced comic style im having fun again
Tim, there is no denying your gifted genius as an artist, illustrator. Your talent is undeniable. I really don’t understand where you find the time to do all you do and do these videos. I love to listen to you… BUT yes, there is always one; could you please strive to be a bit more succinct 😢
WAIT! Now that you are doing segmenting it is clear that you are listening to us mere mortals! Thank you🙏
I gotta say I like the longer explanations and the natural style of speaking, I feel like I get a better understanding of the topic
great videeo to a very difficult question!
I’ve been struggling since I actually like to render most, but all the styles I admire are Highly graphic and have almost no rendering. I was suggested to look at art nouveau to see how I might be able to have both, but it’ll be a long road
I mostly have doubt in- can concept art industry accept this mix of comic art and painterly style? I had similar idea like you- have painterly approach but also having this line work on surface. For years and year i was teaching myself how to do comic style,i had this idea of being professional comic artist. Then i discovered concept, got myself into mentorship, finally building a portfolio for gaming industry and then i caught myself of not knowing how to paint,how to render things. This is where the doubt is still in me- will companies accept artist with very comic looking style? Questioning that a lot, i started to lean into painterly style, slowly developing that as a second style so i can adapt easily into industry. The watercolor seemed like middle ground of what i want but again...will they accept it? I know it depends on which company/ clients you aim but still, is there value for artist like me? I rly liked the path you went through bcs i see myself doing same and rarely you see artist with this style showing how they got that style. Most tutorials are focused on super painterly rendering, never creating proper line base etc etc. Great video as always! Super inspiring!
Yeah I had this same concern. It was one of the reasons I was trying to learn to paint so much back then... The bottom line is 'can you provide value in the production chain'?. In my case I think because I worked in comics I developed a lot of speed, and the ability to draw scenes. This meant I could create characters and sketches fast enough to meet industry standards. And I was able to draw scenes with characters and backgrounds fast enough to be useful (as a general rule most concept artists struggle to draw both). It means that I am only suited to a small number of jobs and areas of pre production... But on the other hand I am normally well suited to those jobs that need me. This is a strategy that worked out specifically for my journey though... As I only freelance and I started doing concept work after already being established as a comic book artist and illustrator. So it would be an entirely different path if you are trying to get your foot in the door with a style like mine.
I hope that helps. Happy to follow up if you have more questions.
Hey Tim, long time no commenting!
I guess I get what you are saying: "don't fall into the trap of thinking more rendered or more difficult is always better".
I hear you, but I also think it was just as likely for you to have settled for the more rendered style that you've developmed had your influences been different.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think there is a video waiting to be made on what are the advantages of the more rendered style as well.
Hell I'd pay real money for a whole course from you teaching the perspective, form and rendering style that you developed over your journey, basically what I imagine you've already taught multiple times as a teacher one CDW. I get that you chose to simplify your art for many reasons, but other people really appreciate that side of art and would profit from learning from you, me included.
At least a demo for TH-cam breaking down that other style. Pretty please. 😊
I know that you might be too occupied to put in the time for the recording of a whole course and by what I've seen on your portfolio you are fully booked well into 2025, but I really think you are the perfect person to teach something like that.
And before you say that there are plenty of courses teaching perspective, form and rendering, most of them are focussed on the concept arty side of things, and I think you have a niche there focussing on the fantasy illustration/keyframe side of things. At least a video on how to apply the knowledge that we might get elsewhere for a more stylized fantasy illustration wouldn't hurt.
Last thought for now: since the style you've settled on for now is more shape focussed I think we could use a video on shape design. I've heard the term many times but never got what to do besides the whole square, circle and triangle (for the villain) character that is repeated everywhere. I imagine that in a shape based style you should think a lot about shape design when you're dealing with more complex pieces. How to make your pieces more interesting though shape design.
And expanding that, this shape based style is mainly used for comics/BDs, so I think there must be some narrative points that might call for a lighting scheme that would work better on a form focussed style for the emotion required. So a video on how to navigate these story beats on a shape focussed style would be great, too!
Thank you for all the teaching as always! Always learning a lot from you!
Everything in an image are two dimensional shapes. You can talk about form and light, but that would also be flat shapes. Patches of light or shadow in the end become shapes in a composition too. What makes an image effective is not a particular style or rendering. Its the combination of shapes and contrasts you apply. Shapes can be more or less attractive depending on their configuration and disposition respect one another. Communication becomes clear through the use of contrast. Composition would be the effective disposition of interesting shapes intertwining efectively with what you are trying to communicate.
What is Shreck doing to that Seal !!!!!
The part wheee gojo throws sukuna and part of the bridge back towards earth goes hard
Black ink lines with colored in areas looks better in comics because it is more graphic, allowing for a sense of immediacy in storytelling. Paintings are are supposed to gazed at, they create a sense of the suspension of time. That's why Alex Ross, as good as he is at painting, isn't as good at storytelling as Jack Kirby
Thank you for sharing! Very helpful 👌
This is a lot to think about and Im barely through the first third of the video. I think I have this problem and hadn't even realized it.
Same. Thinking in terms of shape vs form is one I hadn't considered before, too. Usually it's presented as 'line art or painting' or 'flat vs rendered'.
@@kittykablam I still cant say that I've fully understood how to change the rendering approach to arrive at a solution. But knowing the issue will allow us to find solutions in our own ways I guess.
Goodness, Tim, I didn't realize this is where I have been a little stuck. But cool, learning. So back to your pinocchio book, page 54, 72, your water is so amazing. Why am I so stuck on it. We're you torn between realism and cartoons because it looks like you went for a photograph
thx obi wan great advices
As someone who tends to lean toward a more painterly style with a lot detail, I tried to create a simplified cartoonish design... not easy
As an enjoyer of art I like both. But Comic Book style is more enjoyable to produce for me despite years doing digital paintings.
This is not set in stone for me however. Sometimes it is fun to paint something again.
i'm a writer without an illistrator do you do joint ventures
There’s always room for improvement. I was going out side to draw from life. I would sit down to draw. People would peak over my shoulder to watch me draw, and I would get encouraging feedback. Some would ask for chump-change. Some were just plain crazy. But I felt it was better to draw from life because truth is stranger than fiction. Artist’s don’t have to slavishly adhere to reality.
Thank you!
For me what doesnt work is going for a rendered look but still keeping black lines. It´s all "painting" (no lines) or all cartoon style (all lines Kim jung gi style)
Thank you.
Hi Tim, I love your art, I try to buy your tutorial "Drawing Scenes in Line and Color!
Learn to Draw Complex Scenes!" and I get a Paypal error when i try to pay. Thanks a lot
I think this video has saved me years of wasted time. I both prefer shape over form and it comes more naturally to me. Now I can focus on figuring out what matters to me.
you are a very cool man did you that
This is also called the difference between chiaroscuro-based art and notan-based art
0:52 in the biniging.. in the Bini... in the binigging ...
I like all sorts of styles so I end up trying to combine all of them in one drawing and totally screw it all up
Obsessing over rendering can put you in a stagnant place . Constantly Chasing after realism can be really exhausting and ruin your creativity and motivation
🙏💐🌺
Well hello there 👋
Shape and form are the same word in French! 😅😂
You are truly a talented artist! Respect. But yout also realy have to learn to edit your videos :D
90 percent of this video is something you repeatedly say over and over because its like a live recording. Its youtube, if you cant capture someones attention for a period of time, they just gonna leave.
Just try making an actual plan for the video. The idea, and then what makes it in points. And just cut out the parts that doesnt make sense. Is that extra work? Yes! But also lots of quality. And well, you have amazing art, and skill. So.
Anyway. All the best :D
Edit. Also i though you are gonna drive home some kind of a point. But it kinda came out pointless in the end. You know like a lesson. This is Rendering. This is line drawing... Very messy. Very, very messy. No structure. Alsmost no point. I realy lacked a good light rendered image at the end for the people to understand the difference...
talks too much, says nothing at all.
He shows a lot of examples of his work, and mainly explains how beginners try to over-render comic style drawings...he could have condensed but still good info for amateur comic artists.
Don't worry, someday you will also have people willing to listen to your thoughts because you've proven yourself through your art. Just like Tim has.
BTW, I have the script for a graphic novel, would you be interested in drawing it? It would be a step in that direction.