I’m nearly positive that Dolores will test run humanity in the sublime until she is able to solve the issues of humans clinging to their loops, and help them escape their own maze. She will free humans from this, then reprint them in physical host bodies to repopulate the Earth. The post credits scene with William is thousands of years after Dolores has perfected humanity, except for William. He will be the last man standing, the last true human mind, unable to change his behavior. A relic in the new age.
Delores CHOOSE to see the good in the world while William CHOOSE to see the bad, the first test of humanity proved William right & delores VIEW of the world wrong , we will become slave to a fake good under devil delores
Will(IAM) is the key to Humanity, as a whole, escaping the maze. We are only as strong or good as our weakest link - in the case of Westworld, (THAT) weakest link is Will(IAM).
If humans are reprinted in host bodies then they're not human. To get around this, Dol could cryofreeze some great number of real human babies and teach raise them using hosts.
It's all a dream ending basically. May as well just have William in a shower and him telling dalores everything was a bad dream. That would be terrible
i honestly enjoyed Hax's explanation's better then watching a crappy written show that seemed like a shell of season 1 and only existed a cash grab with its repetitive story and lackluster action scenes.
i keep coming back to what delores said in S1 and wondering how it all ties together - “They say that great beasts once roamed this world. Big as mountains. Yet all that's left of them is bone and amber. Time undoes even the mightiest creatures. Just look what it's done to you. One day, you will perish. You will lie with the rest of your kind in the dirt. Your dreams forgotten, your horrors faced, your muscles will turn to sand, and upon that sand a new God will walk, one that will never die, because this world doesn't belong to you or the people who came before. It belongs to someone who is yet to come.”
ALSO I absolutely ADORE your mental health points! I love teaching the four Cs: compassion, choice, content and care. And with all this, helping youbg people to learn without competition and punishment. So it's so fascinating to hear you discuss how a different upbringing with less trauma would've changed Will.
Since an early age I'm a supporter of learning without competition or punishment. Great to know you're working on my dream and it has finally come to fruition in the real world. Thank you! ☺️
@@AshayGupta thank you for this kind comment Ashay! I'm from Latin America and we really need that here so I'm really passionate about this. Your comment made my day
Hax. I feel like as a community you are the one voice that has the power to give us the closure we'll now never get. No expectation, and you owe nothing to any of us - but I have to ask, perhaps you could give us one final video with your thoughts (just general bigger picture) about the storytelling that was Westworld. Yes the show's been cancelled - there's ugliness in this world. Hax has always seen the beauty that is Westworld ❤
Love this, but I disagree with your description of William. He wasn’t some poor bullied kid whose deeply-repressed fears caused his psychic break. He was always a psychopath and the show made that clear. The park didn’t traumatize him, it revealed him. The park’s whole purpose is to cater to rich sociopaths. “Last time, I came alone. Went straight evil. Best two weeks of my life.”
I agree. As a young husband of a rich woman who he didn't really love he was already chipping away at his soul. He was just wearing a mask all along. And then going full stalking mode on a date he had, being "jealous" of a robot that can't remember him anymore showed his true nature.
I mean, the fact that I stalked this channel for what you might surmise about next.... thank you so much for your analysis! Every time it's like a journey that opens new pathways of thought! My brain thanks you!
Brilliant insight. I’m still so amazed how much this series taps into mental health and trauma and how that impacts all of us even Westworld. The entire Hale narrative from season 3 to 4 really dealt with that. Your analysis of this incredible series and videos really enhance the entire Westworld experience. I hope more fans of this show find your channel. Great job!
I've been watching you for years and I just love your Westworld content! You always have such great ideas. I really hope we do get a 5th season. Keep up the great work!
Imagine season 5 episode 1 ending with Dolores on the poarch slapping the fly off her neck but instead of killing the fly catching it and let it go free
I do not know if William can ever be redeemed, mostly taking into consideration the post credit scene in the finale of season 2. He seems to be on a never ending loop.
I think you’re missing out on the fact that computing power is not infinite: when you’re running a simulation, you have to trade off accuracy, amount of data being simulated, and speed. If a simulation is simulating another simulation, you’ll have to run it half the speed, or not as accurately. Plus more for overhead .
Came here to say the same. You're going to lose some fidelity when going deeper because the actual computing power is in the real world. Also Bernard's visit to the sublime implies that literally everyone there eventually wound up becoming, essentially, the god of their own individual universe. Which indicates that anyone who transfers to the sublime will eventually be the only being in their reality with true freedom of choice.
Well now that you're at it let's not forget... computers break down, they don't work forever, power supplies don't work forever (Hoover Dam), and maintenance is a natural process of taking care of any physical machine.
@@RichardRagan I think we gotta suspend disbelief when it comes to maintenance in a world where you can print out near replica organic machines using white goo. :)
I really hope they don't do the Dallas "it was all a dream" route. They're better than that. Finding out that all 4 seasons of Westworld were a simulation just so Arnold can show Ford what it will lead to and it ending with the park never being opened would piss me off. Your theory relies heavily on Ford coming back and that is a bit unrealistic to me considering Anthony Hopkin's age. The de-aging or fully CGI is not in the vein of Westworld or anything the creators like/care for. I think you need to think of how Lisa Joy and Jonathan Nolan view the world and what the story they told was until now. Dolores is/was always the main protagonist even if a lot of people wish Ford back or love William. In your theory there was very little of Dolores and I doubt that is the route they are going to take. Yes, I agree Dolores might work on trying to figure our where William went bad and try and "rectify" or lead him onto a new path but going as far back as to not even opening the park... that seems like it will piss off more people than actually please. I do think that Dolores did have more information than we might have considered at the end of season 2. She was inside the Sublime after all... so she might have had all the information that Bernard did in Season 4 and she planned out everything already back then, knowing perfectly well where it will end. The line you posted of "it will take both her and Bernard to finish the job and they both might die". That's exactly what happened. Those few minutes she and Bernard spent in the Sublime might have been enough for her to figure everything out with the simulation inside the simulation theory of yours (aka Inception theory). While the mental illness storyline is interesting and should certainly be included into the conversation, I think it will be more leaning towards choosing to be good/bad; selfish/unselfish; white hat/black hat. Sort of a butterfly effect, each choice you make will influence who you become. The rest of your life depends on your choice right now. Basically making the hard choices despite everything society tell you, you should choose. Free will unhindered by expectations and pressures from the outside. An inner decision.
I'm fascinated by the idea that Dolores is the last sentient being at the end of the line running meta simulations of humanity and life on earth. Her mindspace is literally the spacetime fabric of a new universe. If she has access to quantum computational power, she could be observing an infinite amount of simulations happening simultaneously. She could be the creator and observer of a multiverse.
I agree with you that Dolores being the last person on Earth is kind of mind-blowing but my beef with the writers of the show is that they never really show these kind of things directly you always have to do intellectual influences to kind of figure out where we stand now it would have been nice to have a scene of complete desolation where she's the only thing moving in the world to kind of reinforce that idea
We still don’t know why Caleb and William have the same serial number in season 3. We do know they have a similar story though. One killed his daughter and the other killed himself over and over again just to save his daughter. Maybe William is taught by living through Caleb? Maybe the Caleb we see isn’t Caleb it’s William going through his “test”?
Thank you so much for all the effort and love that you put in. Many times the gives me more pleasure watching your videos than the show it self. I really really hope you are right and they are able to bring it all together in this last season. And that they didn't see GOT because "hurt people hurt people"..
The Game with Michael Douglas & Sean Penn? "I was drugged and left for dead on Mexico and all I got was this lousy t-shirt" that The Game? Man, I love that movie😁
I'd LOVE to know what Nolan & Joy presented to HBO as their conclusion to Season 5 that made them initially jump on WW. As we're apparently never going to see this story officially concluded, the least they can do is to throw us the crumbs that would allow us to know how it was supposed to conclude.
thing is, whatever happened to the set up at the end of season 3? the world in chaos and as Maive said: "in this world you can be whoever the f you want"
That would suck. It might as well be a dream, the lamest plot twist of any hack of a writer. It means everything we watched was a lie and for nothing. Fake and disappointing.
@@Derpy1969 If I would place my trust in any production on this planet. It would be the minds that made If-Then-Else. But my expectations are sticking to my shoes.
@@Derpy1969 Dear friend this show has been mired in the suck for a long time. Their casual approach to life and death reeks of writing for the royalty check.
We are introduced to our future timeline c2030 - 2050, in S3 w/ Caleb. Got to go through financial collapse, depression, world war, then post war totalitarianism.
Missile falls in distant village sleeping babies blown to pieces best friend dies of cancer another of cirrhosis true love betrays fascists rise again and Westworld ends prematurely HBO: appalling lack of vision my TV's headed for the garbage
I would love it if you explored Person Of Interest and made similar videos about its theme and undercurrents. It was created by the same showrunners and Westworld seems like the natural extension of PoI, thematically. Your thoughts on PoI would be insightful and would lead to a deeper understanding of both shows.
Oof- I'm absolutely terrified of colonizing other places on space or living as data. We literally have evidence of thousand of human history where we colonized, alienated, marginalized and even killed our own kind, I can't imagine that being different in another setting. And if we live in a situation, whoever is running it is doing a very awful job with some few awesome subjects (because some humans are truly wonderful and kind). I can only dream of a future where we live in a sort of leftist anarchy, helping one another and living in hierarchy-free communities. PS: thank you so much for all the care and thought you put into each video.
Leftism is authoritarianism. There is no growth without competition. If there is anarchy, there will still be hierarchy. You seem to think normal people get together and do great things that change the world, but that's not how the world works. A few great people change the world, the rest of us either help to create their vision but are replaceable cogs or we benefit from their vision and ideas. The masses are not intelligent or competent.
Still hoping Lisa Joy and Jonathan Nolan could somehow say something to what their thoughts were supposed to be for the ending, but in lieu of that, I do very much like this theory. Particularly your point in that our feelings, as the audience, would be getting a better more personal glimpse into the Hosts' perspective.
Until season 2, I was 1000% convinced that ford and Arnold were romantically linked. Not like a theory, I just thought that was a fact. I introduced the show to more than 1 person, with that information included. I can’t remember now, years later, exactly what gave me that impression at the time, but when you talked about their dynamic, it really brought that back to making sense in my brain lol
Just a simulation to tie everything together? That would leave me feeling unfulfilled. although it may not be possible to create an ending equal to season 1. As long as there IS an ending and not a black screen leaving ME to decide how. things end, well that just might be the best to hope for.
You can't create endless *concurrent* nested realities in the Sublime, that would require infinite processing power which I don't think they're claiming to possess. And there's also no reason you couldn't get a live feed into it if you wanted to.... Hard to theorise when the rules appear to be artistic!
4 reasons you should review BEYOND WESTWORLD episode 5: A. George Takei from Star Trek B. The professor (Gilligan's island) C. Martin kove (Cobra Kai) D. Insight into Hale's plan....
🤔Hmm...lots to think about and consider here🤔 ONE thing worth mentioning - Let us all remember, there ORIGINALLY is no Bernard: The original "bro-mance" to dig into is Ford and Arnold!!!
You bring up good points about the potential redemption (of William), although it seems he already showed the duality of humanity with his philanthropy and generally well-received, successful, family man persona irl vs what he was like in the park (before his wife's death). I think he became disillusioned after his 1st time in the park, but clearly has a proclivity towards power, control, revenge, manipulation. That same park disillusion might break another person or at least, cause them to never want to go back to the park... so to say he is a victim of circumstance or reacted in the way anyone might in his position seems a bit shortsighted... There is something about how his brain is wired that leans towards him becoming the "big bad." He's been given opportunities to face his past (selves, even!), and didn't seem to integrate it/them or heal from it, imo... That said, I don't see how his character arc could go any other way than towards some sort of redemption or annihilation. I think at this point in the series, Frankie and other outliers are more the positive side of humanity, the "good" passed down from her father (& mother) that Dolores chose to see. There are def pieces in the other seasons to be called back to that give hints towards where we're headed...
Also, of course Maeve wanted to move Caleb along/he's fine bc they both know he's not/has massive PTSD and was put through all those rounds of brain-zapping therapy with the other OG outliers, as profiled by Rehoboam
Hey have you heard about "the peripheral"? Would be interesting to see your thoughts on this show :-) ... Really like your videos! Keep up the amazing work!
Your theory around 25 minutes would be perfect bc it could just end with him going you are right and then buys tons of shares in iNgen or whatever it's called from Jurassic World (Park)
Also, i kind of want to count how many times they use the word ‘hope’ in S3 & S4. Because i think that struggle & hope are factors in what helps the robots wake up. Hope being focused on more in the last 2 seasons.
maybe the virtual(virtual(...)) realities are indeed a thing. The idea of a cyclical / recursive algorithm increasing its granularity is often used to portay AI after all Revolution must also be part of that process and i mean that figuratively as well : when your ai stops trying to reach or find something at the center of the maze and chooses afterwards to get out ouf the maze to experience more data and doing such, becoming more and free itselfs from its previous limitations, kinda like our brains do all the time by creating new pathways/memories from experience. We already saw the hosts's revolutions against their creators which could have happen many times and possibly creating sublimes into sublimes The next revolution could be getting out of the maze which would in effect mean a consious decision to completely reverse the process, instead of creating more sub-sublimes, geting out of the sublimes to "really" be free
What’s really cool is you’re getting close to one of the major suppositions of a simulated universe… It’s in the book “the fabric of reality”by David Deutsch… Back when we used to think the universe would end in a big crunch he posited that an advanced civilization would dilate time to such a degree that all of their civilization could be living for millions of years seconds before the big crunch ….sorry if this doesn’t make any sense I’m using text to speech
I love your theory but in the end i think the real reason as to why we never saw Ford and Arnold friendship play out or why we never saw why Ford and William hated each other is because a) they couldnt afford both anthony hopkins for more seasons and also the cgi tecnology to de-age him or b) young william actor wasnt available. Heck they would even need to de-age the actor that plays bernard.
Yeah it's lame. I am hoping maybe Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy team up with Christopher Nolan to make a movie and finish up the story. The only reason I think it is unlikely is people would be confused if they hadn't watched the show in the first place
maybe you'll never read this, but in my opinion (and to my experience) the final "sim" should have the basic rule which forms my creed as to all sentient beings have to follow which is; "Don't do to others what you don't want to happen to yourself and treat others like the way you would want to be treated" If this simple line would become the base rule then the final sim would end up with everyone living in peace... I started living by this rule quite a few years ago and my live went up in happiness, i'm not rich, nor do i want to be that, happiness is more important, feeling good with yourself and the ones around you. Also i saw people's behaviour changing towards me in a positive way after a while of my "new position in life" and I always try to spread this creed to as much people as possible who i feel are open for it. I've seen other people becoming happy too, although they had suffered before and were living with a more aggressive & destructive stance towards "others and themselves", I'm not starting a cult of a following, I just want as much people as possible to live a happy life. Understanding that bad luck is just part of life, just as good luck and that the power of relativation and seeing things in context often resolves problems and conflicts that are otherwise keep people unhappy cuz they just only think aboiut themselves
That's true but that could just be explained as being a different simulation out of the possible infinite number of simulations. They could show that William is always destined to have a horrible life no matter what choices he makes
Honestly I think that they could wrap up the series in three episodes using the cradle theory episode 1 shows Arnold trying to express all the problems with all the simulations that always ends in disaster for humans episode 2 Arnold gets disregarded they open the park anyway William walks into the park and instead of choosing the white hat he choose the black hat episode 3 William sees the error of his ways the park ends up becoming AI or robot only and William chooses a different path that none of the algorithms could have predicted because he chose his mental health seeing how the park was not healthy for him and it ends with a truce between humans and the robots I think they could do it in three episodes
Man, u gotta be the preeminent TALKER of Westworld, HD. If this show does indeed stick the landing to close out at the end of next season, however they do it, u should become an adjunct and teach a college class on this show. I graduated 21 years ago and I'd STILL go find a way to take it lol. U know im a long time fan, so I'd say that anyway, but u know why I REALLY say it now? (Backhanded, "hidden dig" comment in 3...2...1...) Because you somehow made the dreaded "IT WAS ALL A DREAM" SERIES finale sound pretty cool, heartfelt, and incredibly deep if you're really paying attention and intimately BREAK IT DOWN 😂😂 don't think I didn't catch that as soon as i knew you were hinting at it---- "please don't tell me hes gonna say that it was ALL a simulation," I thought..."after all these years and all this EXPERT LEVEL work and studying, don't let him end on a version of IT WAS ALL A DREAM..." But damnit u MADE THAT SHIT WORK!!!
Idc,for me this was as close to perfection as any series I've seen or or know! At the beginning of season 3 the cartel that runs the servers said they had updated & it could run 100yrs or more with no maintenance. Ive been lobbying for yrs for a Logans Run reboot. Exploring similar themes through an ai controlled captive population set in a dystopian future. Still think hbo dropped the ball on not doing season 5 & cancelling Raised by Wolves!
Putting my party pooper pants on: it's not possible for there to be full-scale, high-fidelity simulations within simulations. i.e. no Matrix within a Matrix, etc. Why? Because of resources. As Maeve (incompletely) demonstrated in the War World simulation, there isn't enough processing power available for a chain of simulations. Note that this problem is independent of the technology or the power you have, because in any high fidelity simulation, the entities *will* create their own simulation, which in turn will create their own. This leads very rapidly to exponential resource usage, and a big crash. The only way you could prevent this is to artificially limit the capabilities and depth of the simulation, but then that wouldn't provide the fidelity needed to approach reality.
Agreed. Even Nick Bostrom seems somewhat embarrassed that his simulation hypothesis is taken so literally. I always regarded it as a fun thought experiment.
The thing is that the big story lines are not over. Dolores has been a victim, but focusing only on that overlooks how all of Dolores' many iterations have been villains -- from Dolores, Wyatt, Halores and all the other pearls she took with her. In this way Hosts have been made in their creator's image. Dolores shows no shades of remorse or pain once she is in the Sublime. I can't but help thinking that the sublime needs to be destroyed, and the delos project subject William / Man in black is the closest thing that there is to humanity being left. What is humanity? Is it sentience? Those raw emotions that civilization tames but always risks coming back out? Is it the unbounded limitless creativity that the hosts enjoy in the Sublime? Re-watching the whole series, I'm wondering how much William / Host in Black did find his redemption in the battle against the hosts. There is a lot of Darwin and Freud in this series. The end-game of Bernard's plan to me also remains unfinished and open. It's not clear why in any of Bernard's vision for the future putting humans in cold storage was not a better option than the host in black's survival of the fittest. If anything, the battle for the data Serac wanted is still up for grabs with the Delos project still running somewhere on autopilot. The Hoover dam is basically one large USB drive and the end-game could see the delos project succeeding.
Matrix in a matrix has always been a hack idea to me. Declaring all sentient life ended is the ultimate example of "telling and not showing". I'm really hoping they don't just leave it at that and do better storytelling next season.
One thing hacks… You keep talking about the time dilation as if it is an innate feature of the simulated world is a passive statement that you keep making. They could dial the time dilation up as much as they want think of it like overclocking a processor in a computer
Excellent, lots to think about and I totally agree with the type of persistent stories we tell ourselves thereby insuring their continuation. Like the binary good/evil, always a psychopath/redeemable victim of circumstance.
I’m nearly positive that Dolores will test run humanity in the sublime until she is able to solve the issues of humans clinging to their loops, and help them escape their own maze. She will free humans from this, then reprint them in physical host bodies to repopulate the Earth. The post credits scene with William is thousands of years after Dolores has perfected humanity, except for William. He will be the last man standing, the last true human mind, unable to change his behavior. A relic in the new age.
Delores CHOOSE to see the good in the world while William CHOOSE to see the bad, the first test of humanity proved William right & delores VIEW of the world wrong , we will become slave to a fake good under devil delores
Yes, 100% agree with you on William. I think he will never change, no matter how many times he gets tested. He will be stuck in an infinite loop.
Will(IAM) is the key to Humanity, as a whole, escaping the maze. We are only as strong or good as our weakest link - in the case of Westworld, (THAT) weakest link is Will(IAM).
If humans are reprinted in host bodies then they're not human. To get around this, Dol could cryofreeze some great number of real human babies and teach raise them using hosts.
Why would her reality be real? Why isn't she in a simulation? None of this has been real
Dear Westworld writers: If HaxDogma correctly predicted the ending of the show, don't change a damn thing.
So he spoiled it?
Its only spoiled if you dont enjoy otherwise its just being prepared for whats to come you feeling change the outcome of the statement
It's all a dream ending basically. May as well just have William in a shower and him telling dalores everything was a bad dream. That would be terrible
HBO: ok, we're simply not going to film it.
@@Dr.Harvey The big sad.
Now that it’s canceled. We need Hax to plot out the imaginary last season
This is it, this video IS season 5.
I am going to imagine this is what they were actually planning too :(
i honestly enjoyed Hax's explanation's better then watching a crappy written show that seemed like a shell of season 1 and only existed a cash grab with its repetitive story and lackluster action scenes.
The news just broke about the cancelation. I'm gonna miss overthinking an HBO show about robots with you.
This is a great video! It makes the story they were trying to tell so much clearer and it just makes me wish we got a season 5 even more.
i keep coming back to what delores said in S1 and wondering how it all ties together -
“They say that great beasts once roamed this world. Big as mountains. Yet all that's left of them is bone and amber. Time undoes even the mightiest creatures. Just look what it's done to you. One day, you will perish. You will lie with the rest of your kind in the dirt. Your dreams forgotten, your horrors faced, your muscles will turn to sand, and upon that sand a new God will walk, one that will never die, because this world doesn't belong to you or the people who came before. It belongs to someone who is yet to come.”
ALSO I absolutely ADORE your mental health points! I love teaching the four Cs: compassion, choice, content and care. And with all this, helping youbg people to learn without competition and punishment. So it's so fascinating to hear you discuss how a different upbringing with less trauma would've changed Will.
Since an early age I'm a supporter of learning without competition or punishment. Great to know you're working on my dream and it has finally come to fruition in the real world.
Thank you! ☺️
@@AshayGupta thank you for this kind comment Ashay! I'm from Latin America and we really need that here so I'm really passionate about this. Your comment made my day
Competition is good.
@@merc9nine Yes, in sports. Not in learning.
"It was all a dream/simulation" is not the satisfactory finale you seem to think it is.
Hax. I feel like as a community you are the one voice that has the power to give us the closure we'll now never get. No expectation, and you owe nothing to any of us - but I have to ask, perhaps you could give us one final video with your thoughts (just general bigger picture) about the storytelling that was Westworld. Yes the show's been cancelled - there's ugliness in this world. Hax has always seen the beauty that is Westworld ❤
Love this, but I disagree with your description of William. He wasn’t some poor bullied kid whose deeply-repressed fears caused his psychic break. He was always a psychopath and the show made that clear. The park didn’t traumatize him, it revealed him. The park’s whole purpose is to cater to rich sociopaths. “Last time, I came alone. Went straight evil. Best two weeks of my life.”
I agree. As a young husband of a rich woman who he didn't really love he was already chipping away at his soul. He was just wearing a mask all along. And then going full stalking mode on a date he had, being "jealous" of a robot that can't remember him anymore showed his true nature.
I mean, the fact that I stalked this channel for what you might surmise about next.... thank you so much for your analysis! Every time it's like a journey that opens new pathways of thought! My brain thanks you!
I vibe with this man too, his theory are just so good
youtubers like haxdogma need to come together and write some really cool sci fi show for netflix
I’m gonna watch/listen to this on my Starbucks run. what a treat to wake up to a video this morning!
Brilliant insight. I’m still so amazed how much this series taps into mental health and trauma and how that impacts all of us even Westworld. The entire Hale narrative from season 3 to 4 really dealt with that. Your analysis of this incredible series and videos really enhance the entire Westworld experience. I hope more fans of this show find your channel. Great job!
I've been watching you for years and I just love your Westworld content! You always have such great ideas. I really hope we do get a 5th season. Keep up the great work!
The survival of outliers negate the idea that there are no sentient beings left. Your analysis is brilliant however
Imagine season 5 episode 1 ending with Dolores on the poarch slapping the fly off her neck but instead of killing the fly catching it and let it go free
What a great idea!
I do not know if William can ever be redeemed, mostly taking into consideration the post credit scene in the finale of season 2. He seems to be on a never ending loop.
Betting Maeve's first line in Series 5 would have been _"This is the new world. And in this world, you can do whatever the fuck you want."_
I sure hope to see that!
I think you’re missing out on the fact that computing power is not infinite: when you’re running a simulation, you have to trade off accuracy, amount of data being simulated, and speed. If a simulation is simulating another simulation, you’ll have to run it half the speed, or not as accurately. Plus more for overhead .
Exactly!
Came here to say the same. You're going to lose some fidelity when going deeper because the actual computing power is in the real world. Also Bernard's visit to the sublime implies that literally everyone there eventually wound up becoming, essentially, the god of their own individual universe. Which indicates that anyone who transfers to the sublime will eventually be the only being in their reality with true freedom of choice.
Well now that you're at it let's not forget... computers break down, they don't work forever, power supplies don't work forever (Hoover Dam), and maintenance is a natural process of taking care of any physical machine.
@@RichardRagan I think we gotta suspend disbelief when it comes to maintenance in a world where you can print out near replica organic machines using white goo. :)
I really hope they don't do the Dallas "it was all a dream" route. They're better than that. Finding out that all 4 seasons of Westworld were a simulation just so Arnold can show Ford what it will lead to and it ending with the park never being opened would piss me off.
Your theory relies heavily on Ford coming back and that is a bit unrealistic to me considering Anthony Hopkin's age. The de-aging or fully CGI is not in the vein of Westworld or anything the creators like/care for. I think you need to think of how Lisa Joy and Jonathan Nolan view the world and what the story they told was until now. Dolores is/was always the main protagonist even if a lot of people wish Ford back or love William. In your theory there was very little of Dolores and I doubt that is the route they are going to take.
Yes, I agree Dolores might work on trying to figure our where William went bad and try and "rectify" or lead him onto a new path but going as far back as to not even opening the park... that seems like it will piss off more people than actually please.
I do think that Dolores did have more information than we might have considered at the end of season 2. She was inside the Sublime after all... so she might have had all the information that Bernard did in Season 4 and she planned out everything already back then, knowing perfectly well where it will end.
The line you posted of "it will take both her and Bernard to finish the job and they both might die". That's exactly what happened. Those few minutes she and Bernard spent in the Sublime might have been enough for her to figure everything out with the simulation inside the simulation theory of yours (aka Inception theory).
While the mental illness storyline is interesting and should certainly be included into the conversation, I think it will be more leaning towards choosing to be good/bad; selfish/unselfish; white hat/black hat. Sort of a butterfly effect, each choice you make will influence who you become. The rest of your life depends on your choice right now. Basically making the hard choices despite everything society tell you, you should choose. Free will unhindered by expectations and pressures from the outside. An inner decision.
I'm fascinated by the idea that Dolores is the last sentient being at the end of the line running meta simulations of humanity and life on earth. Her mindspace is literally the spacetime fabric of a new universe. If she has access to quantum computational power, she could be observing an infinite amount of simulations happening simultaneously. She could be the creator and observer of a multiverse.
I agree with you that Dolores being the last person on Earth is kind of mind-blowing but my beef with the writers of the show is that they never really show these kind of things directly you always have to do intellectual influences to kind of figure out where we stand now it would have been nice to have a scene of complete desolation where she's the only thing moving in the world to kind of reinforce that idea
You're videos are always so thought provoking. Thank you
We still don’t know why Caleb and William have the same serial number in season 3. We do know they have a similar story though. One killed his daughter and the other killed himself over and over again just to save his daughter. Maybe William is taught by living through Caleb? Maybe the Caleb we see isn’t Caleb it’s William going through his “test”?
Thank you so much for all the effort and love that you put in. Many times the gives me more pleasure watching your videos than the show it self.
I really really hope you are right and they are able to bring it all together in this last season. And that they didn't see GOT because "hurt people hurt people"..
So we're not in the Matrix, we're not in a turtle's dream, we're just Christina's memories.
Happy to see you back on my feed!
Love your perspective Hax. Keep up the fine work.
The Game with Michael Douglas & Sean Penn? "I was drugged and left for dead on Mexico and all I got was this lousy t-shirt" that The Game? Man, I love that movie😁
No but yes a great movie lol
I'd LOVE to know what Nolan & Joy presented to HBO as their conclusion to Season 5 that made them initially jump on WW. As we're apparently never going to see this story officially concluded, the least they can do is to throw us the crumbs that would allow us to know how it was supposed to conclude.
Oh. So an "And it was all a dream..." kind of ending??
Possibly! :3
thing is, whatever happened to the set up at the end of season 3? the world in chaos and as Maive said: "in this world you can be whoever the f you want"
They made references to the war but they never really showed the war. They showed the aftermath of it.
Thank you for keeping the conversation going. Your videos are the best. Hope we get season 5
Damn. Guess that's the end of these great videos. Cheers
I appreciate your thoughtful analysis, and I'm sure your theories are an exact match to the Season 5 that HBO will make in one of their simulations.
What if Ford has always been there with Bernard - as Stubbs?
Bernard said they ran a simulation to see how Westworld turnout, before they opened. This entire series, is that simulation.
If HBO becomes Rehoboam in this simulation, then our Westworld videos and comments really could change the future.
That would suck. It might as well be a dream, the lamest plot twist of any hack of a writer. It means everything we watched was a lie and for nothing. Fake and disappointing.
@@Derpy1969 If I would place my trust in any production on this planet. It would be the minds that made If-Then-Else. But my expectations are sticking to my shoes.
@@Derpy1969 Dear friend this show has been mired in the suck for a long time. Their casual approach to life and death reeks of writing for the royalty check.
Oooh, I like this one 🤙🏽. Looks like the simulation determined that they were not ready to open the park just yet lol.
We live in season 5
We are introduced to our future timeline c2030 - 2050, in S3 w/ Caleb. Got to go through financial collapse, depression, world war, then post war totalitarianism.
damn, not even 5 mins in and you already got me questioning the nature of my own reality -__-
The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.
Missile falls in distant village
sleeping babies blown to pieces
best friend dies of cancer
another of cirrhosis
true love betrays
fascists rise again and
Westworld ends prematurely
HBO: appalling lack of vision
my TV's headed for the garbage
Great vid & can’t wait to see more!
My brain is glitching out now. If this whole thing is STILL IN THE CRADLEEEEEEE
I would love it if you explored Person Of Interest and made similar videos about its theme and undercurrents. It was created by the same showrunners and Westworld seems like the natural extension of PoI, thematically. Your thoughts on PoI would be insightful and would lead to a deeper understanding of both shows.
POI is fantastic, it feels like a proto-westworld at times with its exploration of the beginnings of AI sentience
We need a Peripheral series as well as Severance!! Pleaseeee & thank you :)
Peripheral is trash. Severance is master class television.
Oof- I'm absolutely terrified of colonizing other places on space or living as data. We literally have evidence of thousand of human history where we colonized, alienated, marginalized and even killed our own kind, I can't imagine that being different in another setting. And if we live in a situation, whoever is running it is doing a very awful job with some few awesome subjects (because some humans are truly wonderful and kind). I can only dream of a future where we live in a sort of leftist anarchy, helping one another and living in hierarchy-free communities. PS: thank you so much for all the care and thought you put into each video.
Leftism is authoritarianism. There is no growth without competition. If there is anarchy, there will still be hierarchy. You seem to think normal people get together and do great things that change the world, but that's not how the world works. A few great people change the world, the rest of us either help to create their vision but are replaceable cogs or we benefit from their vision and ideas. The masses are not intelligent or competent.
Anarcho-Syndicalism
Still hoping Lisa Joy and Jonathan Nolan could somehow say something to what their thoughts were supposed to be for the ending, but in lieu of that, I do very much like this theory. Particularly your point in that our feelings, as the audience, would be getting a better more personal glimpse into the Hosts' perspective.
I really hope you're right and the writers are that smart. Right now I'm not so sure they are. Love your content!
My theory for season 5 is it never gets made:(
S4 was renewed after s3 premiered, s5 still hasnt been.
Until season 2, I was 1000% convinced that ford and Arnold were romantically linked. Not like a theory, I just thought that was a fact. I introduced the show to more than 1 person, with that information included. I can’t remember now, years later, exactly what gave me that impression at the time, but when you talked about their dynamic, it really brought that back to making sense in my brain lol
They always say _"partner."_ It just means business partner, but Hopkins' hesitations before he uses the word is interesting.
It’s been years. Lmao good one.
I JUST LOST THE GAME! ⚰️
Just a simulation to tie everything together? That would leave me feeling unfulfilled. although it may not be possible to create an ending equal to season 1. As long as there IS an ending and not a black screen leaving ME to decide how. things end, well that just might be the best to hope for.
It would sure as hell explain why nobody thought it strange that Ford recreated his dead partner as a host. "I don't see anything here."
Hax, are you familiar with the game Soma? The plot in that game is a close parallel, exploring similar concepts
I just read the news. This is a fine way to go, I guess. The show was what it was while it was. And Peripheral stinks on top of that. Goddamnit.
I keep remembering when we first see William we see him napping in the reflection in the window as he travels into the park
You can't create endless *concurrent* nested realities in the Sublime, that would require infinite processing power which I don't think they're claiming to possess. And there's also no reason you couldn't get a live feed into it if you wanted to.... Hard to theorise when the rules appear to be artistic!
4 reasons you should review BEYOND WESTWORLD episode 5: A. George Takei from Star Trek B. The professor (Gilligan's island) C. Martin kove (Cobra Kai) D. Insight into Hale's plan....
What if Maeve and Deloris are Arnold and Ford?🤯🤯🤯
🤔Hmm...lots to think about and consider here🤔
ONE thing worth mentioning -
Let us all remember, there ORIGINALLY is no Bernard:
The original "bro-mance" to dig into is Ford and Arnold!!!
What a trip! LOVE IT :)
You bring up good points about the potential redemption (of William), although it seems he already showed the duality of humanity with his philanthropy and generally well-received, successful, family man persona irl vs what he was like in the park (before his wife's death). I think he became disillusioned after his 1st time in the park, but clearly has a proclivity towards power, control, revenge, manipulation. That same park disillusion might break another person or at least, cause them to never want to go back to the park... so to say he is a victim of circumstance or reacted in the way anyone might in his position seems a bit shortsighted... There is something about how his brain is wired that leans towards him becoming the "big bad." He's been given opportunities to face his past (selves, even!), and didn't seem to integrate it/them or heal from it, imo... That said, I don't see how his character arc could go any other way than towards some sort of redemption or annihilation. I think at this point in the series, Frankie and other outliers are more the positive side of humanity, the "good" passed down from her father (& mother) that Dolores chose to see. There are def pieces in the other seasons to be called back to that give hints towards where we're headed...
Also, of course Maeve wanted to move Caleb along/he's fine bc they both know he's not/has massive PTSD and was put through all those rounds of brain-zapping therapy with the other OG outliers, as profiled by Rehoboam
Hey have you heard about "the peripheral"?
Would be interesting to see your thoughts on this show :-) ...
Really like your videos! Keep up the amazing work!
Would like a look inside how you make these awesome videos!!!
I think it's safe to say they'll be going back to Westworld for at least the first portion of season 5
Those Virtual Worlds inside Virtual Worlds idea was done pretty well with a series by Jack L Chalker called Wonderland I think
Your theory around 25 minutes would be perfect bc it could just end with him going you are right and then buys tons of shares in iNgen or whatever it's called from Jurassic World (Park)
LOL 😹😹😹 yes!!
Also, i kind of want to count how many times they use the word ‘hope’ in S3 & S4. Because i think that struggle & hope are factors in what helps the robots wake up. Hope being focused on more in the last 2 seasons.
I was winning the game for so long!!!
Gaming since the mid 90's, I should never set foot in West World with my decisions.
maybe the virtual(virtual(...)) realities are indeed a thing. The idea of a cyclical / recursive algorithm increasing its granularity is often used to portay AI after all
Revolution must also be part of that process and i mean that figuratively as well : when your ai stops trying to reach or find something at the center of the maze and chooses afterwards to get out ouf the maze to experience more data and doing such, becoming more and free itselfs from its previous limitations, kinda like our brains do all the time by creating new pathways/memories from experience.
We already saw the hosts's revolutions against their creators which could have happen many times and possibly creating sublimes into sublimes
The next revolution could be getting out of the maze which would in effect mean a consious decision to completely reverse the process, instead of creating more sub-sublimes, geting out of the sublimes to "really" be free
Plural of Dolores is Dolorae? I never knew!
What’s really cool is you’re getting close to one of the major suppositions of a simulated universe… It’s in the book “the fabric of reality”by David Deutsch…
Back when we used to think the universe would end in a big crunch he posited that an advanced civilization would dilate time to such a degree that all of their civilization could be living for millions of years seconds before the big crunch ….sorry if this doesn’t make any sense I’m using text to speech
Love that this is already a story I can read! Will need to check it out, I’m obsessed with this idea haha
Deutsch has an amazing mind but like many genius level intellects, he struggles to tell the difference between the profound and the merely daft.
I love your theory but in the end i think the real reason as to why we never saw Ford and Arnold friendship play out or why we never saw why Ford and William hated each other is because a) they couldnt afford both anthony hopkins for more seasons and also the cgi tecnology to de-age him or b) young william actor wasnt available. Heck they would even need to de-age the actor that plays bernard.
The real reason is that it wouldn't help the narrative.
Did you see the news about season 5?? 😭😭😭😭😭😭 maybe we'll get a movie instead?? sucks SO hard 😢
Yeah it's lame. I am hoping maybe Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy team up with Christopher Nolan to make a movie and finish up the story. The only reason I think it is unlikely is people would be confused if they hadn't watched the show in the first place
maybe you'll never read this, but in my opinion (and to my experience) the final "sim" should have the basic rule which forms my creed as to all sentient beings have to follow which is; "Don't do to others what you don't want to happen to yourself and treat others like the way you would want to be treated" If this simple line would become the base rule then the final sim would end up with everyone living in peace...
I started living by this rule quite a few years ago and my live went up in happiness, i'm not rich, nor do i want to be that, happiness is more important, feeling good with yourself and the ones around you. Also i saw people's behaviour changing towards me in a positive way after a while of my "new position in life" and I always try to spread this creed to as much people as possible who i feel are open for it. I've seen other people becoming happy too, although they had suffered before and were living with a more aggressive & destructive stance towards "others and themselves", I'm not starting a cult of a following, I just want as much people as possible to live a happy life. Understanding that bad luck is just part of life, just as good luck and that the power of relativation and seeing things in context often resolves problems and conflicts that are otherwise keep people unhappy cuz they just only think aboiut themselves
Has westworld been renewed for season 5?
11:23 how it can be *physically* possible?
What I'd love to see is Dolores and Caleb end up together and marry, also I want to S5 return to the ten episode format.
The only loose plot thread is the end of season two. Your analysis is spot on but I want to know what that really means and that's missing, or is it?
That's true but that could just be explained as being a different simulation out of the possible infinite number of simulations. They could show that William is always destined to have a horrible life no matter what choices he makes
Not related but have you watched & covered The Peripheral show?
Honestly I think that they could wrap up the series in three episodes using the cradle theory episode 1 shows Arnold trying to express all the problems with all the simulations that always ends in disaster for humans episode 2 Arnold gets disregarded they open the park anyway William walks into the park and instead of choosing the white hat he choose the black hat episode 3 William sees the error of his ways the park ends up becoming AI or robot only and William chooses a different path that none of the algorithms could have predicted because he chose his mental health seeing how the park was not healthy for him and it ends with a truce between humans and the robots I think they could do it in three episodes
I think that the "Don't open the park" theory is incomplete as it doesn't involve Frankie.
Man, u gotta be the preeminent TALKER of Westworld, HD. If this show does indeed stick the landing to close out at the end of next season, however they do it, u should become an adjunct and teach a college class on this show. I graduated 21 years ago and I'd STILL go find a way to take it lol.
U know im a long time fan, so I'd say that anyway, but u know why I REALLY say it now? (Backhanded, "hidden dig" comment in 3...2...1...)
Because you somehow made the dreaded "IT WAS ALL A DREAM" SERIES finale sound pretty cool, heartfelt, and incredibly deep if you're really paying attention and intimately BREAK IT DOWN
😂😂 don't think I didn't catch that as soon as i knew you were hinting at it---- "please don't tell me hes gonna say that it was ALL a simulation," I thought..."after all these years and all this EXPERT LEVEL work and studying, don't let him end on a version of IT WAS ALL A DREAM..."
But damnit u MADE THAT SHIT WORK!!!
Idc,for me this was as close to perfection as any series I've seen or or know! At the beginning of season 3 the cartel that runs the servers said they had updated & it could run 100yrs or more with no maintenance. Ive been lobbying for yrs for a Logans Run reboot. Exploring similar themes through an ai controlled captive population set in a dystopian future. Still think hbo dropped the ball on not doing season 5 & cancelling Raised by Wolves!
HBO! Westword! Crave! Whatever! Give this guy a job!!
Well…someone’s gonna open it.
Putting my party pooper pants on: it's not possible for there to be full-scale, high-fidelity simulations within simulations. i.e. no Matrix within a Matrix, etc.
Why? Because of resources. As Maeve (incompletely) demonstrated in the War World simulation, there isn't enough processing power available for a chain of simulations.
Note that this problem is independent of the technology or the power you have, because in any high fidelity simulation, the entities *will* create their own simulation, which in turn will create their own.
This leads very rapidly to exponential resource usage, and a big crash.
The only way you could prevent this is to artificially limit the capabilities and depth of the simulation, but then that wouldn't provide the fidelity needed to approach reality.
Agreed. Even Nick Bostrom seems somewhat embarrassed that his simulation hypothesis is taken so literally. I always regarded it as a fun thought experiment.
It's over people, 12 people watched season 4
The thing is that the big story lines are not over. Dolores has been a victim, but focusing only on that overlooks how all of Dolores' many iterations have been villains -- from Dolores, Wyatt, Halores and all the other pearls she took with her. In this way Hosts have been made in their creator's image. Dolores shows no shades of remorse or pain once she is in the Sublime. I can't but help thinking that the sublime needs to be destroyed, and the delos project subject William / Man in black is the closest thing that there is to humanity being left. What is humanity? Is it sentience? Those raw emotions that civilization tames but always risks coming back out? Is it the unbounded limitless creativity that the hosts enjoy in the Sublime?
Re-watching the whole series, I'm wondering how much William / Host in Black did find his redemption in the battle against the hosts. There is a lot of Darwin and Freud in this series.
The end-game of Bernard's plan to me also remains unfinished and open. It's not clear why in any of Bernard's vision for the future putting humans in cold storage was not a better option than the host in black's survival of the fittest. If anything, the battle for the data Serac wanted is still up for grabs with the Delos project still running somewhere on autopilot. The Hoover dam is basically one large USB drive and the end-game could see the delos project succeeding.
There ain’t gonna be a season 5
Miss your content, i hope you will pick up other tv show and keep going.
If it's a simulation in the real world with no one to maintain the physical servers I'm going to be annoyed cuz it will be unsatisfying af
Matrix in a matrix has always been a hack idea to me. Declaring all sentient life ended is the ultimate example of "telling and not showing". I'm really hoping they don't just leave it at that and do better storytelling next season.
One thing hacks… You keep talking about the time dilation as if it is an innate feature of the simulated world is a passive statement that you keep making. They could dial the time dilation up as much as they want think of it like overclocking a processor in a computer
Very true!
Excellent, lots to think about and I totally agree with the type of persistent stories we tell ourselves thereby insuring their continuation. Like the binary good/evil, always a psychopath/redeemable victim of circumstance.
Did she also have the data that was connected with the super computer
Keep the channel alive. Cover House of the Dragon.
Aah, this sounds so great, it might not happen 🥲
Unfortunately there'll be no 5th series unless the HBO execs change their minds on cancelling the show.