This Cooler DRAWS 545W!!? Bad Cooling Ideas #2
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We got a 545W Peltier cooler... sketchiness ensues.
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+2 points for the solidworks flow demo and real engineering talk. More of that please tyvm.
if only they tried with a more serious cooling solution on the TEC
-10 for the TEC on CPU, and crippling the heat transfer with an Insulator.
i'm taking classes on Solid works and simulation rn
@@yoyodavid ok, but who cares?
@@hansdietrich83 nice way to be a dick
You'd be better off putting the TEC cooling on the radiator to get lower than ambient, then you'd need another water cooler just to cool the TEC plate. You could get the water as cold as you want and not even worry about condensation.
We're getting into Nuclear Reactor type cooling setups now. This is the LTT experiment that needs to happen.
That’d be cool
Same idea man xD
This is EXACTLY what I was going to say, this is how the Coolit tec coolers work. I still use a Coolit Freezone Elite and it works amazing after 12 years. I did have to replace the pump once but the peltiers are still working great. And that cooler can easily take up to 350w of cooling and it's in a small form factor. If they adapted that method with those radiators, it would be able to easily cool 1800w. Hell those radiators ALONE should be able to take 1200-1500w with just fans.
If implemented properly that setup should be able to keep that whole system including sli gpus in the water loop around ambient temps on load.
Yeah, but... What if you get condensation in your water?
Alex: pays thousands of dollars towards an engineering degree
Also Alex: Chop chop the bottom bit
Gotta use laymans terms for non-tech
To be honest - everything he does (at least what we can see in the videos) is very sketchy engineering-wise :D Degree wont help at all if somebody cant think like an engineer...
@@Trancelebration dude built buggies and stuff, the point of this videos is to do something sketchy, not a new super product
@@yuriibondar3757 Using AC SSR for DC and pretending its funny isnt sketchy, its straight stupid :)
@@emmaisalone yet they have time to play with cfd module inside solidworks premium package which takes a lot of time. I know I know... it has to be just "good enough".
I love Alex's face when Linus is speaking to the camera. The face of a kid who's waiting for their parent to finish talking with their friend.
The face of someone who has witnessed many many horrors.
I did my HS physics project on TECs and I found that one of the biggest problems with them is that their faces are not flat at all and since they are ceramic they are difficult to flatten so I had to compensate with globs of thermal paste and even then it was bad plus hot side temps matter almost as much as cold side since a high delta caused by insufficient cooling leads to heat leaking to the cold side lowering efficiency. Future improvement could be done by flattening the TEC with an end-mill or facing on a lathe, stacking TECs, and direct contact vs an additional copper plate(that slot for the thermal-couple wasn't helping anything.
It'd probably be better to lap the surfaces with a diamond cutting compound.
So.. liquid metal^^
About the piece of copper in between: I thought that too but then there would be no way to regulate the temperature.
:)
I was going to say, what if they removed the bottom plate and liquid metaled it the bottom of the ceramic direct to the cpu ? They never checked if the bottom plate was getting cold only the hot side
Linus: "It was a learning experience"
Alex: "Yeah"
Linus: "About listening to your boss next time"
.
.
.
.
.
.
Alex: "WHAT?"
"does not compute"
@@Desser57sléttu sléttu
I'm with Alex in that one
@@karikrummi4222 why is it flat
@@ImMonoToast song
Forget the thermoelectric effect. Hook that sucker up to the compressor on an actual AC unit.
Linus has an AC unit based system (that does work).
It's been done and it's very effective. Only problem is size of the machine.. it's about as big as the system it's cooling.
didn't asetek do double phase pc coolers at one point?
I have a single phase built in a case, that runs on 12v - very effective on the Athlon 64 x2 it cooled at the time!
See, the thing is, they’re not doing this because its a good idea. They do it because they can.
@@harambeexpress (barely)
16:10 their funnel has a label saying "FUNNEL"
They also have a hammer labeled "HAMMER"
Well what would _you_ do to remember what it is?
its for people who dont know this stuff better to just label everything.
@@itsomegali5342 who tf doesnt know what a funnel or a hammer looks like
When you have a label maker, everything gets labeled. Everything.
Why not cool the water instead of the processor with a bunch of peltiers?
though the same thing, if this isnt the next thing they try it will probably be forgotten. cooling water would definitely work tho.
Build a buffer of cold water and in normal use it would work great, gaming for 24 hours or even 8 hours would probably overwhelm it
I second this!
@@H3nryum not if you cool it with normal radiators before going extra with peltiers after those.
I was just about to say this, you can run it at full power even.
Just do a thermal coil of some sort into the radiator
Everything goes right - Linus: "See I told you!"
Everything goes wrong - Linus: "See I told you!"
Everything goes left - Linus: "See I told you!"
WHAT!? 24:00
aka "how to act like a boss"
Everything goes up - Linus “See I told you!”
Everything goes down - Linus “See I told you!”
Linus would make a really shitty Mythbuster
I dunno but linus is addicted to pc cooling
💯%
@@TugAndThugComputing Johnny Johnny did you forget to change your account ?
You mean he's addicited to making PC.. cooler? :DDDDDD
@@the_guy_with_yeeyee_a_haircut uh
@@Agant. mostly yess :D
Who buys an expensive tap then doesn't use a vice?
alisdair butler it wouldn’t be LTT without some jenk
The funny thing is they have a vice
Linus - because what you fail to understand is, it only has to be "straight enough" - stop fussing over doing it right when you can do it janky.
My guess is people who are better at using software than tools? I am hoping to meet me someone who is good at everything, let me know if you find them.
@@AugmentedKing They're called engineers
"There is no way we can just finish like this"
DO YOU NEED A BEAUTIFUL WEBSITE WITHOUT ALL THAT HASSLE?
The relay itself is the problem:
First, it's for AC power and expects the voltage to turn zero at some point. It turns off in the zero crossing.
DC voltage never turns to zero, so the relay will never turn off.
Also, it has a 1.6 volt voltage drop, so the peltier gets only 10.4 volts.
Please use a MOSFET next time. It will work way better, and we get to see even more sketchy LTT electronics. I love these videos!
do you expect LTT to actually know how to wire a mosfet? inb4 they use it in the linear zone and blow it up..
@@emperorSbraz Alex looks like a pretty capable guy, in the case he didn't know, he'd be capable of wiring a MOSFET correctly with a Google search.
It's just they don't care of doing this kind of projects more correctly, the concept is pointless to begin with
I assume the relay is a dumb component controlled by the thermo controller, which outputs the PID pulse to switch the relay (that switch the power). Therefore I'm not sure if it really matters if it is for controlling AC or DC.
I assume he used the PID as a modulating ( on/off) controller to drive the relay. Rather than a PI control loop. Doesn't look like it would of mattered tho.
@@FlameRat_YehLon Solid state relays are usually just a box with a thyristor inside. Thyristors can turn a current on, but they cannot turn it off. Only useful for AC since the current goes to zero 100 (120) times per second. With DC, the current doesn't go through zery by itself, thus the thyristor doesn't turn off.
18:42 My favorite part of the video, it was totally necessary!
It’s rated at 32 amps, and we’re expecting 32 amps...
Yeah, I’m just going to stand back here, behind the plexiglass, with the fire extinguishers.
Always use things that are rated for a higher load than what you are expecting. Helps keep things from burning and exploding.
yeah, don't you generally only run about 80% of a wire's maximum rating for safety?
@@MmMerrifield There are rating for continuous use. Using exactly the gauge rating is not it ;)
Yeah... a fire extinguisher with the safety pin still in it. Very useful in case of electrical fires, I tell you.
Thought for sure they would cause a brownout on the west coast.
From only 900w? A microwave at full power is often over 1200w.
@@Combatpzman Not sure if you are being ironic, but the microwave only runs for few minutes (usually), that thing is supposed to be on for hours. ;)
@@Combatpzman Anything is possible when Linus is involved.
@@ZpeedTube Nothing ironic about it. The point is that in the grand scheme of things 900w is nothing. Is it a lot for a desktop computer meant for home use? Of course. For example A small window AC unit, which people run for hours, typically operates between 900-1200W depending on how hard it needs to work. A large outdoor unit would far exceed that. As would say your household oven, a washing machine, and more.
@Combatpzman
Amplifiers used for concerts are usually 1500 to 3000W, and they are often running ten or more of them at the same time.
Overpowering peltier module raises its temperature instead of dropping it if heat removal isn't ideal.
There is a fine line of goodness.
Exactly this - at high power a TEC just becomes a resistive heater on both sides.
The water block is so thin
You're correct, I'm pretty sure the seebeck effect exists even if overpowered passed it's specifications, but it becomes that much harder to cool (resistive heating increases at a faster rate than the cooling effect) and the delta between the two sides decrease as the hot isn't cooled at a fast enough rate. The resistive heating effects always exist in it, that is why the final cooling solution needs to be able to cool a thermal load that is the peltier + the object being cooled.
@@guydevries8197, the massive of the water block isn't necessarily that important. The mass just effects the blocks heat capacity, but the main importance is the interface between the fluid and block, which is actually what moves the thermal energy out of the system.
Linus 2019: 'A PID controller is like an On/Off switch'
Linus 2020: 'A computer is like a spinich'
Linus 2021: A spinach is like a rock
Linus 2022: A rock is like a stone
Linus 2023: Weekends are like applesauce
@@AaronzDad "Weekends are like Applesauce" sounds like a Dave Barry book title.
For those who have not heard of PID controllers, it's more like a smart, variable power supply that goes positive and negative.
GEOTHERMAL cooled pc. It might be just crazy enough.
While we're doing that lets put a PC in outer space
Do you know that that would pretty much mean heating the pc rather than cooling it
not really if the water or whatever is like 25* it might actually work
Microsoft did it off Ireland. Works great.
Already been done actually..
A few years ago some startup company created a bitcoin mining facility inside a mountain.
The mountain already had a building tunneled out inside as it used to be an old Russian military base.
The temperature is so low inside that they have no cooling.
20:52 this whole part seems very similar to the chernobyl accident...
“We’re at 900 watts on this thing!”
@@AndreiTache now add Mega before watts
"award winning templates" I 100% want to go to the awards ceremony for best web developing templates.
Next video:
Can you cool a PC with radiators from the ISS?
„After telling you about our sponsor: NASA!“
Overclocking from the dark side of the moon.
Well with this we were able to reach temperatures around 10K...
I know it's a joke, but normal radiators won't work in space
What about Water cooled Mobo ..... Mobo literally in water... 100% heat transfer, nothing wasted.
Alex: There’s no way we can just finish like this.
Linus: *smiles*
*AD STARTS PLAYING*
"we have a tap wrench."
*Proceeds to use it without a vise.*
Also doesn't lubricate it...
Interesting. I'd often wondered about using a Peltier for PC cooling, but not directly on the CPU. My thought was to use it more passively, in conjunction with a fan at the front or rear of the case to cool the air flowing into the case by 5 or 10 degrees while drawing only minimal power. The idea being that if the air being supplied to your standard air- or water-based CPU cooling rig is slightly cooler than ambient, you would see some increase in the performance of your cooling rig overall. Kind of like keeping servers in an air conditioned room, but in this case using a little modular box on the back of the case to create the AC effect. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on this, Linus.
There's no way that little water flow can stop it from overhearting
Yeah exactly. That needed serious water flow, the water block heating up that quickly says it and/or the water flow were undersized.
The sad thing is, that they don't understand peltiers apperently. The water was not able to get the heat away. Meaning the peltier cannot cool and will just act as a heater. Linus brilliant idea: Cranck up the heater you put on your cpu even higher.
Thanks!! Yah i would not rull out this before they can keep the hot side alot cooler.. as i recall the delta t will drop when getting hotter.. so a theoretical hot/cold temp of 70c is not at a burning hot side.
It is not a good solution power wise!
I did an 85w with water on a celeron 300@504 -17c idle 0c load..
Back in the day.
Peltiers never gonna work on something that is actively producing heat like a CPU ... The actual cooler is the radiator here ... If they directly use it with the CPU and water block it would do better job ...
@@anikdey2100 explain to me why my old cpu was -19c at idle and 0c under load with peltier and water.. with a room temp of 22c
Alex&Linus videos always feel like a what-if articles in a video format. And I absolutely love every second of it.
You know it's going to be a good video when Alex puts on is engineer uniform...
+10 to intelligence.
not a very good engineer obviously.
i think an air cooling will suit for this because TEC is "collect" heat extreme fast, air cooler just fit very well for this. Water cooling transfer heat isn't that fast compare to a huge metal fin heat sink.
*Linus* - "tech cooling is and was a bad idea"
*Intel / cooler master* - "Hold our beers"
Linus - "were gonna use tec, in the worst possible way you can"
@@phillstevenson4931 they really did the worst possible design they could. The copper part on top of the tec for water cooling
it -that was actually obvious its not gonna dump the heat- was a beautiful, neat, amazing mess 😂
Alex is a genius! This is exactly what LTT should be all about! MAKE IT WORK!
im getting whole room flashbacks with those fans and radiator, the cable mess and evrything..
Tecs get less efficient as the power consumption goes up so cranking it up to 900w might not be as effective as keeping it at 200w. Also expect a 10c delta across the tec so for sub ambient multiple tecs should be used with a larger cooling system
"So we got this high power module."
Module. As in modular.
I'm betting on a sweet spot on 2-300w into the TEC. Any more would demand way to much from the heat sink. I think the copper water block got overwhelmed, not enough water flow and speed.
I do the opposite of this. I use multiple TECs in a small cooling system but the system is half-assed and intended for chilling multiple things in a water loop, not forcing heat away from a TEC in the loop.
@@hank7281 im not sure what point you're trying to say. No shit the tec is a module. What does that have to do with anything
@@DaemonForce they overloaded the one radiator. He calculated 500w without including the cpu heat. And even then it was at 50c meaning the cold side would be at 40.
You're right about thermodynamics is in play here, specifically the latent heat of vaporization of H2O. There's an inherent heat storage capacity to water that isn't there for the Peltier device. There's also the phenomenon of the difference between laminar flow vs. turbulent flow of water in a heat exchanger. If you have laminar flow through your water block, you can generate micro bubbles of steam in the water; that steam infused water can then be pulled away from the water block's heat exchange surfaces. In turn, the micro bubbles of steam infused in the water collapse and spread and disperse the thermal energy in the water downstream from the water block. That's the "inherent" heat storage capacity of water I was referring to earlier. That's what makes water coolers superior to Peltier devices or tech cooler devices, imo.
Thought I'd see my *grandkids* before this video.
nah you'll be dead before they're born
@@Noksus oof
I thought I'd get a girlfriend before this video came out
A Linus 😁
thought I'd see my dad...
if you do water cooling aswell, then I would rather use the Peltier to cool the water and not the chip directly
That makes slot more sense
I'll be honest, I think Whole Room Water Cooling was one of the best things ever, and I want a new version of it. I don't know what they could do at this point, but I think it was an awesome idea, and could absolutely work. I've seen similar setups work extremely well with only a couple computers, and LTT has the capacity and means to do a "whole room" unlike so many others.
Some day I hope they do a 2.0, or have a reason to. Maybe just not the editors den..
Man, they should do some of this awesome invention videos with ElectroBOOM, it would be awesome.
Javier Macias good idea! The whole studio would be on FIRE!
Shortage on 10K $$ so AWESOME!!!
They could continue this project with the awesome TechIngredients
best idea ever
Linus: But hey it was a learning experience.
Alex: Yeah.
Linus: About listening to your boss next time.
Alex: *WHAT?*
Luke was the king of janky projects
Was?
have you seen floatplane?
@@BlazeABD no? What happend?
Now Alex is the king
What about the privacy monitor, Luke knifed a display
I think people are using peltiers the wrong way. We are already good at getting water back to room temperature, we should keep our existing loops and focus on making the water that's going *into* the block cooler.
if you make a reservoir that runs water over the cold side of a peltier there are a couple things that you gain:
1. The ability to only turn on the peltier when it's really necessary (Example, when reservoir temp is 5 degrees above ambient turn on turbo charge mode)
2. The ability to pick and choose a module that isn't quite as overpowered. You don't *need* the module to move the entire 300w of heat (or whatever). You could pick a 200 watt peltier that moves 50w of watts of heat and still get a massive performance increase.
3. failsafe. If the peltier dies or whatever, you have still have the vanilla loop.
Man, alex's stuff is getting super impressive. Kudos to you guys
10:56
"It only needs to be straight enough"
- Linus, 2019
I'm fairly sure Yvonne will say that Linus *is* straight enough.
But probably only just.
congrats Alex, you really stepped up your game in the last year. The flow simulation really blew my mind! Keep up this quality of content!
I think the solution is a hybrid system. You have a basic 240 mm rad with fans and a pump (open loop), then you have a secondary loop (open) that is dissipating heat from a peltier with whatever size rad it needs. You take the cold output from the basic loop and run it through a cpu block on the cold side of the peltier and THEN you run it to the cpu. That way, you can use basic, more efficient liquid cooling to siphon off most of the higher temperatures, then you slap a lower power TEC on the end of the loop to drop the temperature a bit more.
The greater the temperature differential between a radiator and the air, the bigger of a drop you get. If your liquid is only 5 degrees above ambient, it's not going to lose much heat, but if your liquid is 50 degrees above ambient, it drops off faster.
The amount of shortcuts taken in this video is unreal
Der Bauer build a very capable TEC-cooler years ago. Maybe ask him for advice
Is that guy even human???
I love the Alex experimental videos!! Keep it up guys
The "Oh my god!" moment of the overflow was the first genuine laugh I have had in days.. wasn't watching LTT for that experience, but thank you, I needed it!
It's fantastic to finally see Alex firing on all cylinders and be able to use his engineering skills. Even if the TEC didn't work, that waterblock is gorgeous.
1. If you don't use the right ssr, it won't turn off when using dc
2. You want a T type tc to measure sub freezing temps
3. look at the ssr derating curve. they only can handle their max amps when they are cool
But it's not even a SOLID state relay, since your hear the click, which makes it a regular magnetic relay.
@@the_unkilled2238 the clicking was probably coming from the temperature controller. the ink bird block is an ssr
@@the_unkilled2238 The "SSR-40 DA" is a real Solid State Relay, i think this click comes from the PID regulator. It may has a small signal output relay for isolation purposes.
And yes the "A" in the name stands for AC so it realy can't switch off again when DC current goes through it.
Still a good idea from LTT to use a SSR nevertheless.
@cedric1997 A solid state relay is not a relay? Okay.
@@VEKTOR4477 I think they are using the SSR to switch the entire second power supply off
Using 12V on-off is a realy bad way of controling a tec
Yeah, thermoelectric coolers aren't really meant to cool a continuous heat load like that very well. I knew an engineer who specializes in thermoelectric coolers and the main scenario he used them for was when a piece of equipment needed to be kept at a very precise temperature, such as optics in a spy plane camera.
linus: its so dangerous might catch on fire
also linus: puts it with RTX TITAN and Crystalic rams
Did Peltier cooling back when it was needed, more than 10 years ago. Had one of the massive aluminum Lian Li cases with room for 12 hard drives on the bottom. After the cpu or gpu you send the water to a radiator. Which then feeds the reservoir. This brings the water to roughly room temp. Then you cool the water, with a different pump system cooling the peltiers. All in all, 3 x 3 fan radiators and 1 x 2 fan. With a 1 gallon res. 1250 watt EVO galaxy PSU and 450 watt Thermaltake side by side psu. Peltiers took about 600 W in total.
Anyways, give the system the same cooling as a radiator first then cool it with peltiers. Don't remember the Intel CPU. but it was stock clocked at 3.2 with 4 cores(best cpu at the time was 3.6x4). With radiator alone water cooling could hit 4.2 stable. With peltiers the way I stated, it would go up to 4.8 stable and all the way to 5.4 (unstable).
The only reason I would pull my old case out of storage and do this again, is I had money to throw away. Air cooled with a decent set up works today. These are no longer the days where Crysis made your system have a mental breakdown.
Make sure that Solid state relay you use is for direct current! One for AC will stay on if DC is used!
also there is a difference between AC or DC PWM signal.
So you're telling me you've got a T-series temperature controller ( 5:05 )
How did you notice that? The text is so small!
I'd be more surprised by a PewDiePie controller
@@twistiv don't know if this is a whoosh moment but like I noticed it without seeing this comment right away
Waiting for this comment to blow up...
Linus would be the only person holding live wires carrying 900 WATTS and getting exited
Plenty of people have held live wires and got excited...
Better to be excited rather than shocked
its just 24v, not going to harm him!
@@user-hm9fj9nc1o Fr
@@zanw.awesome3102 but stil if things go wrong 900 watts is 900 watts
A PID controller is basically just a few multiply-and-accumulate operations, and since the system it is controlling has a really slow response time, it could be implemented in very weak hardware (think Arduino Nano). Also, since you're controlling DC voltage, you don't need a solid state relay, all you need is one MOSFET and some way to cool the MOSFET (it could be cooled by the Peltier element itself). Theoretically, you could jerry-rig a tiny microcontroller that fits next to the cooler itself, powered by a 5V pin on the motherboard, and with a thermistor and a resistor, make a relatively precise voltage divider that feeds into an analog pin of the Arduino, so the same chip both measures the temperature and controls the MOSFET. Also, instead of just turning it off when it gets too cold, you can adjust the cooling effort linearly using PWM. That way, the temperature can reach a steady state of your choice instead of oscillating around the setpoint like a refrigerator thermostat.
Linus took thermal paste lessons from the verge 😂😂
"It worked really well for quite a while." - Alex on the Hindenburg
RIP 36 Hindenburg Victims
@Rob Rutgers Fotografie 😂 Yeah, technically 🤷🏼♂️
I noticed that since Linus first started this project the stock in UPS power supply company's rose dramatically.
The PS part in UPS already means power supply. "UPS power supply" is redundant.
@@megapro125 No, he's trying to supply power to power supplies with power supplies
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.
.
Actually I think they're called load banks.
Hi linus, very interesting video, Just an idea why not remove the Peltier totally away from the CPU side and place it near towards the cooling radiator "with a large fan heatsink block Like the Notchua NH-D15" that way you won't subject the Peltier to direct heat >90C, you will still be able to use the copper water block and that way might work? as your cooling the water flow, would be interesting to try out as a experiment ??? might have to use antifreeze if it works well :)
Wasn't that what they did with that cooling thing from the previous video? There the peltier modules were attached to those heatsinks, which weren't connected to the CPU (they were given heat via water tubing).
Couldn't you use the tech to cool the water instead?
The moment, when you're employee command you "Don't touch that" 17:47 😆👍🏼
Watching Linus tap that plexi is _physically painful_
Why did you buy that workshop of you're gonna ignore it!
8@
The workshop section was them standing at a computer explaining their plan/designs. The lack of machining/fabrication footage was really disappointing.
@@superliljohn91 its pretty neat seeing lazer cutting machines and cnc machines working. Getting a false back on my desk using lazer cutting
Dunno why they aren't putting the tap in a drill press to keep it square...
@@robywankenobi32 Doubt he has one, he could have put it flat on the table though. Every time he does DIY it's painful.
I cant help but feel like there is less steps in my car's cooling than what you guys are trying to acomplish here with a pc
@omgwtf696969 also goes through a spring loaded thermostat which switches between not cooling (whilst warming up) or cooling the water via the radiator when up to temp. also the radiator has a relay or dual relay which controls a fan which turns on when the water going through the radiator is not being cooled sufficiently. ie sitting in traffic with no airflow through the radiator or driving too fast and making more heat than the radiator can cool. every step in a car's cooling system is basically the same is their cooling idea except the tec is the engine. If any component, fan, thermostat or water pump fail then your engine can overheat and become damaged.
I'm somewhat familiar with cooling as me and my dad replaced almost every part of the cooling in my first car cause it kept overheating, in the end we even replaced the whole engine but the overheating never stopped and the car eventually killed itself. Maybe that's why this video reminded me of it. 😅
But how efficient is your water block for directly cooling a CPU..?? How did you forget that.
@@guptadagger896 the whole point of tec is sub ambient cooling potential
@@mikecrapse5285 Then why not use the TEC to cool the incoming water to sub ambient instead?
@@mikecrapse5285
Cooling a 200W system with extra 420W load of cooler ! WTF is math ?
Even AIO vendors sell Asetek equipments under their name, they do test it gradually for every +1°C temp to find efficiency, economy & failure points. No one goes rushing for peak values.
@@frederf3227 Doesn't worth it, overclockers tried it 15+ years ago & yield is so short as compared to LN2.
Also you have keep eye on pump & flow rate, cause as you go up for more cooling there are chances of freezing & choking the path, eventually *zappp...!*
the design didn't make sense why make a custom block instead of just using the TEC to cool the res water or the rad instead
make a custom rad instead of a custom block
Linus: "TEC cooling is and was a bad idea."
Intel: "Hold my Beer..."
Linus Tech Tips -Canada's high-tech version of the Red-Green show
Haha awesome I miss that show. Linus should do a comedy tech themed show like The Red Green Show it would be hilarious.
I just like that they connected PID to a relay.
now what about cooling the water with peltier instead of fans and a radiator?
This. I have cooled a couple of older builds with a TEC cooled water loop. Involves 2 waterblocks, but much more uniform results. It's all about getting the heat away from the TEC. That's where alot of people don't go far enough with.
I’ve considered using one of those pettier beer fridges for a chiller in that manner.
@@vwsavage120 you really are a Savage ^^
They tried this first and it also didn't work
@@stereotypicalLame it must work if only this guys can do that properly.
Ok so they get close but when it comes to TEC cooling nobody seems to have tried doing it an indirect way. Now that everyone and their cousin has proven that TEC units don't operate in the way they want as a main cooler maybe stand back and think outside the box.
Build a standard loop for the CPU (capable of handling the CPU alone for the most part) and then insert a block into post-radiator pipe going to the CPU. Then add a TEC onto that block and create a sandwich with a big air cooler/AIO/second independent loop onto the TEC. Now, any the waste heat from the TEC will not be added into the main loop and the TEC is not the main cooling conduit but instead a sort of booster to bring the water temps down further than a radiator could. This way the TEC can power down completely and you are still left with a standard loop and when it is powered on your water temps could potentially be brought down to sub ambient. This also means that the TEC can be pulsed or run at partial power as needed to maintain a target temp and to avoid condensation.
TLDR: Basically build a loop where the TEC is NOT the main cooling solution but instead as a booster for an already capable loop and use it to bring water temps to below normal idle.
Loved this episode, I tried this back in 2006, pretty much did exactly what was done here minus the temp regulator and my water loop started boiling, The pipe burst off the radiator and that was the end of that idea. I also first tried with a tiny peltier cooler which was useless but then ordered an industrial grade peltier and the outcome was the boiling water loop as I mentioned. It would be awesome if this kind of technology actually worked.
it does work just not in that application. car coolers use them
cool the water not the cpu directly i use 2 12706 and keep 26c temps in texas
Your solid state relay is an AC one not a DC one....
bingo! AC ssr's will latch on due to the wave never reaching a zero point.
@@thewelderdude He said they had AC in that box so I assume they had AC hooked to the relay and the DC to the input side which was rated to 32VDC. Later with the variable supply they took the pid and all that out.
But TEC is DC
@@excitedbox5705 the AC was for the PID controller itself. if the SSR was switching the power supply that fed the TEC, then it would of been ok.
@@thewelderdude Yea, I went back to try and see how they wired it but there wasn´t a good view of it. Obviously that is not gonna work.
"There's no way we can just finish like this" - Alex
Agreed, I think Alex in 2022 is more capable and can figure something dope out as a part 2.
"We need to hit this thing with a Load." -Linus
The PID controllers are pretty good things.
Often used in labs and metalworking industry to control the temperature in muffle furnaces.
Heat treatment for steel or otherwise simply maintaining a stable unchanging temperature within the chamber.
BTW, that's why it doesn't read negative temperatures, it's intended for high temperatures, such as from the 600's to over 1k Celsius.
Can you guys PLEASE partner with Cody's Lab and create a MERCURY COOLED CPU PUMP!! I say do it with Cody'sLab mostly because he's always down to do something stupid and dangerous with Mercury like flush a toilet with it, but also because he just has the Mercury to spare to help out with a Mercury cooled PC. MAKE IT HAPPEN!
the one thing people don't think about, using it as a supplement for a liquid cooler. use it to cool the liquid in the reservoir. I don't know how one would do that, but it seems like if you use radiators to transfer the bulk of the heat out of the liquid, then use the tec to cool the liquid in the reservoir or have it run through an in-line cold plate attached to the tec to cool that way.
Dear Linus,
Please do a sub-zero cooling solution with your airconditioner but put the motherboard in a vacuümchamber so there won't be condensation.
It would be interested in putting the whole system in a vacuum chamber. The pumps aren't that expensive via ebay. A vessel large enough and clear (for Video purposes) might be cost prohibitive.
@@gerthddyn I didn't think of that, the other ic's on the mobo can't discipate their heat in the vacuüm.
Not a good idea, just use a dehumidifier.
You can just fill the chamber witg like co2 or nitrogen or any gas that doesn't have any moisture in it
@@omarcarrero3623 Definitely nitrogen or helium even. co2 bonds with water and forms carbonic acid, would cause severe corrosion.
@linustechtips this setup is not a good setup -- it's inefficient.
Placing the TEC between the processor and the water cooling loop makes no sense -- if the water cooling loop is good enough to cool the TEC, then it is also good enough to cool down the CPU which will be cooler than the TEC which is cooling it.
What you should have done is plugged the CPU directly into the loop, and also plugged a TEC into the loop independently, which is cooling the WATER in the loop. This would be a way to ensure that the TEC is only a benefit in the loop.
With that said, even if you do add an independent TEC to the loop, it would be more efficient to plug whatever is cooling that TEC module into the loop instead of the TEC, because whatever is cooling the TEC needs to have greater cooling capacity than the TEC itself. You'd have a benefit to plugging a TEC this way if you wanted to cool something below room temperature, but otherwise, a TEC will always create more heat than it disperses.
This. I've been curious about cooling water with TEC idea a long time and might do it on my own if LTT stop here with this video series.
@@didyliduu if you do end up making that video, try also testing the full loop, just without the TEC -- that is, the cooling for the TEC still connected directly to the loop, only without of the TEC. I'm sure this kind of comparison will show why a TEC is not a good idea for this kind of application more clearly :)
@@petabrain Not gonna film anything, its jusy for my own fun :)
Yes it's inefficient (TECs are inherently inefficient) but if the water cooling system is up to the job and the TEC is appropriately sized then it will provide superior cooling compared to just water cooling. Without a TEC the cpu will always be hotter than the water, with a TEC the CPU could be below the temperature of the water. The main problem here was simply down to a bunch of parts thrown together without any actual engineering thought going into it.
@@ferrumignis There is quite a distinction between the goals of cooling and the goals of heat dissipation.
Yes, you can achieve lower temperatures more rapidly by using a TEC. However, while you use the TEC, you will have a component which is dissipating heat from the other side of the TEC. That component, which is dissipating heat off of the TEC while it is working, will always have greater heat dissipation capacity than the TEC.
This is because the TEC will always produce more heat than the heat that it removes. If heat dissipation is your goal (which, it is with CPUs -- lower than ambient temperature will get your rig wet with condensation), then you will be able to achieve greater heat dissipation by plugging whatever it is you have been using to dissipate heat off of the TEC, directly to your loop, without the TEC.
@Linus Tech Tips - protip, if you mount peltier element backwards, just switch wires and it will switch around its hot and cold side ;)
edit: also maybe you could use PS_ON instead of SSR
edit2: Peltiers take up to 15V
@Jan Nowak You should only run a Peltier element at 60% to get max efficiency. 12x30 is 360 so it puts them pretty close to the 60%. Still over by a bit actually. I agree though that they don´t know anything. AC relay when using DC current :D Although I think they took it out when they used the variable DC supply.
did either of you even watch the video or what
Linus in 2019: This is sketchy, overkill and barely works.
Linus in 2020: Reviewing exactly this but made commerically
Even though it didn't work very well i think this is my favorite episode
Alex = Linus's 3rd child who gets to spend all the money on cool tech.
"They're rated at 32 amps...and we're expecting 32 amps, so..."
An amazing safety factor of 1
@@Kyros9119 I think that's a safety factor of 0 ;)
a safety factor of maybe...
@@wobblysauce a safety factor of probably
@@Kyros9119 The safety factor should already be in the rating, so it could actually handle more than 32A, but it is only rated at 32A.
Actually, I think you should try using a Stirling ENGINE and run it in reverse, by feeding it rotation (i.e. using an electric engine) to get cooling (or, rather, temperature transfer). The good part is that, if you can put the PC onto the stirling engine, then you can get sub-zero temps quite easily, but it depends what size of engine you have, and you first have to find where to buy one from. It's actually one of the most sustainable engines out there, for low tech places where steel or copper and machining aren't too expensive, because you can use a stirling engine to generate power from heat transfer (i.e. burning trash then water-filtering the smoke and then using the resulting liquid with sand (quartz sand, aka. beach sand) and local dirt and/or rocks (but not quartz rocks or more quartz sand)to make geopolymer cement, but you need to have more of the liquid than it takes to dissolve the sand, and I don't know the exact percentage for that, but you could try with 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%, and 150% more liquid than it takes to dissolve all the sand, and see which of those works better, then try values close to the values which worked the best, and you will find the sweet spot, while also keeping in mind that, depending on the fuel source, it might take more or less time for the cement to harden, but a month should be a good random starting point, while keeping in mind that it might take less than 5 minutes from mixing to when it hardens at least partially.
I think it would be really fun to see you all struggle with the stirling engine on this channel, and separately struggle with the geopolymer cement mixture over on Channel Superfun or some other channel, or even this channel.
16:07 I never laughed harder at an LTT vid 😂🤣
Linus: "I've never been this excited to have leverage!" LMAO
You have to thermally isolate the hot and cold side of the TE cooler for it to have a chance of working. Typically the cold side will have a pillar of copper the footprint of the TE element around .5 to 1 inch long with a foam insulation around it. Where the hot side is attached to the cold side the bolts/screws will be out of fiberglass or stainless with nylon bushing for thermal isolation. With proper engineering design this will work.
12:34 you could just reverse a polarity of Peltier element
It's less efficient
@@valyushalee2320 peltier element is just to tipes of metals velded together, over and over. Cold and hot side are defined only by direction of current
@@TomazSeserko I feel like the reversed polarity npnpnpn screws up some stuff.
Smart to incorperate your other show into a normal video!
Hope the WAN show get's more views, because of this! 👌🏼
Nice moves, keep it up!
MusicForHours *one of their other shows
Alex seems to really know his engineering and physics stuff. I love it! More technical talk from this guy!
they must have missed the thermodynamics class....
15:03 the graphics card looks like a wii from that angle lol
Yeah, I like my NH-D9L. All of these TEC plate experiments and my experience using water cooling, it's hard to beat an efficient air cooler. I wasn't even a believer in the Noctua hype until I tried this one either.
Alex really seems like he's the one being more realistic and he's a cutie but at the same time Linus is the source of chaos for the sake of experimentation and I love it!
U dont need to check witch side is cold u can just reverse polarity if u put it "wrong way" .
Actually, no. One side is waay les efficient then the other
Sorry, the first comment was right, there is no front/back side om peltiers.
@@lars-akeclasson875 hmm. Yeah I read up on it. Apparently it doesn't matter, because of it's alternating pattern. I guess I just had as stupid tec
EKWB finally released a good version. comes out next month. It was the "mystery box" linus used to get the 10900k to 5.7 ghz. EK quantumX Delta TEC cooler.
Did they seriously put the TEC's hot side in contact with the same copper as the cold side?
no, there was a small gap. And a small gap is plenty.
Are the fins not way too thick without skiving?