Thermoelectric cooling: it's not great.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- Not such a cool idea after all.
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You forgot one thing: the blue blob is used at the office, so the boss is paying the electricity bill
Not after he sees this...
and the environment
Exactly, so el cheapo is better because fuck the boss.
Thats not how a company works
@@DrLoverLover It actually is!
15:04 I have never seen Alec so unhinged. And I love it. We need to make this into a sound bite.
I could feel the Tim Robinson creep through there for a bit.
I liked learning that cool volumes are measured in liters and very cold volumes are measured in litres.
The delivery reminded me of Daniel Thrasher 😂
Hahah 😂😂😂 100%
Unhinged or not, I don't think there's any guy on this earth who's more adorable than Alec is... ❤🔥
Peltiers make for an awesome demo in digital electronics classes as a thermo quantum effect device, but unfortunately have incredibly specific use cases in real life.
I was about to ask. What are the real use cases?
Research is required.
Instead of projecting our failure of execution onto inanimate objects, let's consider the fact that nuclear isn't bad, it's how we use it.
Oh, this is about Peltier chips. Well, same thing.
@@IntegerOfDoom well somewhat cooling in places where 12 volt is available and price is an issue for the device itself.
cheap coolers, effectively, but the another problem comes that a power source will become too expensive for home use, but in car it's not a problem to have somewhat high current 12 volt. anyway you can use that kind of coolboxes inside too if you get a decent power supply for them, but it's not efficient.
another is dehumidifiers. but if you have an aircon you don't need device for that anyway.
then there's more specific use cases to keep sensors in specific temperature etc.
... i recently came across a crackpot channel trying to make an airconditioner with solar form a peltier unit, they thought it was viable because the cold side got cold..
back in the day there was a window when 226w peltiers were usable for overclocking with watercooling. but yes you'd need a kilowatt of peltier power to cool a modern processor.
I once had a very senior engineer at a military equipment manufacturer ask me to design a Peltier based air conditioner for use in extreme climates. It was an awkward conversation.
@@IntegerOfDoom I've seen them in extremely sensitive voltage meters to keep the sensitive components at very specific temperatures since you can change between cooling and heating quickly.
I have one of those peltier "fridges" that i hooked directly to a 100W solar panel. It does work but like you say not well. In the summer the nightime temperature is lower than the device can achieve during the day.
So its better to cool drinks by setting them outside at night and then bringing them inside an insulated space during the day.
But, at least the electricity is (effectively) free that you're using to run the thing?! (Well, I guess that assumes you have surplus solar output ...)
Reminds me of a story from a streamer where he was cooling juice on his window sill overnight and was startled awake when it frozen and exploded. I believe he thought it was a gunshot at first.
Hmmm idk... your way sounds like a heat pump with more work.
Codyyyyy
Got this experience too. I used to have a peltier fridge in my flightcase as I worked as an audio-video technician. I usually left it run overnight (if there was power available all night) to get my drinks chilled well - it was able to get the tem down to almost 0C as the ambient temp was pretty low. All my colleagues in FOH appreciated it.
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
You didn't test its performance while it's inside the mini fridge. It was crying out for it!
Connextras!
In the right configuration, multi-stage thermoelectric coolers can achieve liquid nitrogen temperatures. I am curious how cold the cooler in a fridge would get.
@@Peter_S_ I like the way you think.
Reviewbrah!
You're right about the need to let a refrigerator with a compressor stand for a few hours after being moved. When I worked for a UK white goods dealer in the 1970s, the majority of our replacement fridge sales were to people who had just moved house and switched the unit on as soon as it was in its new position. Often this was because the electrical socket was positioned behind the unit and they didn't want it standing in the middle of their kitchen.
They weren't smart enough to turn the thermostat to off ?
@@Kris_M Not all Fridges have that setting. I have a cheap one that doesn't and worked at place that sold fridge.
So, it worked. They didn't had them standing in the middle of the kitchen, after all 🤣
You can move them, but they should stay upright as much as possible. Briefly tipping it over should be fine. Transporting sideways in a vehicle for 30 mins should get some time to let the oil settle back.
If you start it up though, a lot of the oil will get pushed back to the compressor, but it will coat the lines on the way there and take a bit to get returned. This would be worse on the passive ones with the large backside coil compared to the fan cooled ones most are today.
Anything using a compressor with oil should stand for a coupleo fhours after being moved/bounced.
A bit tangential to the topic at hand, but I *hate* those temperature control dials in refrigerators. 0-6 is completely meaningless, so it requires trial and error (and a thermometer) to even know what they mean! Like...if they're gonna do that at *least* make it go to 11 so I can make Spinal Tap jokes.
Agreed! In Europe, I'm never sure if 0-6 refers to degrees Celsius, which means closer to 0 is colder, or cooling strength, which means further away from 0 is colder.
@@FlintlockYTThey usually aren't in degrees, it's mostly a measure of cooling power. Otoh, mine have a temperature setting since the early 2000s, and they aren't expensive ones.
This is gold🥇,well done sir
@@FlintlockYT just as a spoiler alert, the numbers on toasters mean nothing either.
If they had degrees, then the dial would have to be calibrated.
We used a dew-point indicator using a Peltier cooler 35 years ago. The peltier cooled a mirror until it fogged up. It would cycle temperature up and down giving a very accurate reading of dewpoint. Much more accurate than a humidity sensor -- and having a price to match.
If there's an universal rule I've ever learned:
A tool or product is only cost effective when you use them for something they're not meant for
That's actually how dew point is measured in most official weather observations as well, especially for aviation weather because of its high accuracy compared to other humidity measurements. One very useful (but again, very niche) use for the Peltier cooler.
There is a significant difference between thermoelectric cooling being good and a thermoelectrically cooled toy "refrigerator" being good. Thermoelectric cooling works to cool energy dispersive x-ray spectrometers (EDS) without transmitting vibrations (say, to the electron microscope to which the EDS is attached - electron microscopes do not like vibrations).
I wish spectrometers were consumer electronics
@@adaroben1104 if you have enough money it can be. It's not that you are not allowed to own one. Only you will need to be some very well of nerd to be willing to spent money on one.
Yeah - it's all in the application! I work for a company that makes electrical/optical measuring instruments and almost every one of them has TECs in them for keeping optical components, or the sample being measured at a stable cool temperature without introducing vibration.
@@adaroben1104 they are becoming more accessible! It might not be the exact type you want but I’ve seen more and more civilian gas chromatography spectrometers being made for the cannabis testing market (testing cannabis for active ingredient %s)
I even saw someone is selling a mobile setup made to fit inside a pelican case and it has computing built into it, although the software is made specifically for cannabis testing market
@@adaroben1104 lol why would you want one?
I feel this is an appropriate time to tell you, your videos have an impact beyond what you may realize. I'm a disabled veteran and, incidentally, in the HVAC industry now. I occasionally need a "cave" to crawl into where my anxiety and depression can't find me. For me, that's your channel. NileRed as well. Whenever I see a notification of a new video by either of you, it's like Christmas morning. Thank you for what you do.
Hang in there, and I hope that we are taking proper care of you, as I know we tend not to do for veterans.
If that is like Christmas morning, then seeing heartfelt comments like yours are like exchanging and opening gifts with your loved ones 🥹
@rynovoski very true, and there are many who have it far, far worse than I. If a fascinating video here and there are that much help to me, I'd say I've got it pretty easy.
I am no vet but I'll second the motion. I still wrestle with depression and content like this is endless soothing when stress mounts.
@@Clybiusto be honest, I'm one to throw tons of shade on electronic media. But I've found a rare few that give me some real peace and are very educational to boot.
Boy am I a fan of the latent heat of vaporization!!!
Or as we're also known: "Dietz Nuts"...no wait, wrong video...
I bought one of those because I didn't want to have to use the shared fridge in the office in a place where I worked, it was not intended to do anything more than just keep the lunch that I'd already packed cool for a while.
I think I would have done just as well by getting a portable cooler and chucking a couple ice bricks in each morning. That's what I've been doing now that I have delivery work and honestly it is the same if not cooler by lunch time.
Coolers have stood the test of time for a good reason. Ice takes a good bit of energy to change phases. 1 pound of ice will absorb ~150,000 joules from its surroundings by the time it's completely melted to water. Ice is cheap, and with good enough insulation, it can last for shockingly long amounts of time.
Another thing that Peltier Modules are used for is easy electrical generation, get one side cold and one side hot and it induces a voltage. This is actually used in space probes which have RTGs.
Hurrah for the Seebeck effect!
US: "7ºC isn't food safe!"
Germany: ehhh 7ºC is just fine. On average.
Yeah, 7C is very usual for fridges in Europe.
7°C probably isn't safe for the washed eggs that are normal in the US...
Many European countries don't allow egg washing, not sure how wide that rule is.
@@Steamrick No, the standard is that eggs must be below 45 F (7.2 C) at all times, rather than 40 F (4.4 C), which is the standard for everything else.
@@galaxyanimal Huh. Thanks for that.
In Europe, the standard for unwashed eggs that still have the protective film is room temperature. Cheers.
The best use case scenario for peltiers is in scientific or electronic equipment for cooling laser diodes, thermally stabilizing laser crystals, and reaching ultra low temps by stacking progressively smaller chips in a cascade arrangement.
...like the way the pyramids are stacked?
Other mini fridges: Peltier Cooling!
Makita: FUCK IT FULL ON COMPRESSOR.
Dude. Makita. Battery powered coffee maker.
Well yeah, why would they sell something useless. They are a big name brand, selling a dumb peltier 'fridge' would not end well
@@nielsvanderwaa9539Makita sells a lot of trash. They sell some amazing tools. But a lot of trash as well. This goes for all of the tool brands.
First I had Mr. Wizard, and then the Engineer Guy, and now, TC! Bravo.
We used this to keep milk cold for tea when we were renovating houses. It also didn't need to do much work with UK weather. Plus the milk was already cold.
Not to mention efficiency matters less when plugged into someone else's walls. Lol
Probably not an issue for short periods/keeping the milk chilled across an already cool working day, but do note they cool _relative_ to the ambient temperature and milk goes really dodgy if it goes above 5°C for more than a few minutes... 😇
So.... an ice chest?
I know this is a "bash Peltier cooling" moment, but I just want to say how absolutely crazy it is that those little things cool at all! In the lab I work at, we have a couple very-sensitive spectrometers, and the way they are so sensitive is by cooling the CCD cameras (less heat = less noise). For one system, there is a dewar that needs to be filled with liquid nitrogen in order to get it cold. The other, just a little Peltier cooler. And it is JUST AS EFFECTIVE! That little shit can get down to LN2 temps, it only takes a few minutes, AND there's no need for external coolant. It amazed me the first time I saw it work lol
This is the main use for peltier cooling I'm familiar with. Dedicated astrophotography cameras have them to combat read noise.
I love how you consider valid criticism "bashing" because you have absolutely *ZERO* context whatsoever for what word means.
I wonder what the power draw on that stack would be (edit: also that's really cool, I just think it'd a whole lotta watts)
@@tim3172 it's only valid for the marketed mainstream use case, not the actual technology
We use them in an asphalt lab to cool air and thus draw moisture from a vacuum (pump saver) and I agree it works very very well.
Seems to be a common problem with a lot of modern things, there is a small upfront fee to entice you but you'll be paying more in the long run. Especially with the proliferation of subscription, pay monthly and finance, even things like fast fashion.
I remember when Peltier coolers were a big deal back in the early oughts for ekeing out an extra 1-2C of cooling a CPU. You'd have to carve quite the divot into your heatsink to fit the thing between the CPU and the heatsink, the power draw was ridiculous, and again, it'd only drop your temps an extra celsius or two, but these were the days when if you wanted water cooling you had to kitbash together your own system using aquarium hardware so it was regarded as a "safer" mod to perform.
They do exist now too but with how high modern CPU power draw is, they are essentially useless except for when you only care about single core performance. Which is almost never.
How does this channel consistently manage to put out videos on concepts that are completely unrelated but also, coincidentally, EXACTLY what I became curious about, like, last week? STOP READING MY MIND!!! FRICKIN' SMART ALEC!!
He's reading my mind too. In these days i've been in an hotel and i was just mad at that dumb "refrigerator" that is only able to cool down a little bit a simple 500ml bottle of water
I was literally looking at Peltier cooling modules yesterday, was freaky seeing this upload haha
The fridges you compared with all included a freezer section btw, which is another strike against the blue box thing. You can also buy those cube fridges without that here, and they tend to be more efficient, and have more space inside. EDIT: nvm, should have watched to the end.
If you really want a mini proper cooler, use a portable/camping chest style thing. If you buy a good one they also have proper heat pumps. Plus you an then use it for camping/picnics/... etc.
They have actually solved the oil thing too, so they are not sensitive to being moved, but they are more expensive.
They’re also surprisingly brittle when they’re cycled frequently even those that are designed for it. Used them professionally and it was a consistent issue. Eventually moved to a refrigeration setup which worked well but was like 100x as expensive.
My mom gave me one for Christmas. I actually really like it for one specific use case: keeping Mtn Dews cold at work. My work (giant corp) has a "No personal refrigerator" rule. Now I'm clearly breaking that rule, but I can hide this little guy behind my trashcan. The real mini refrigerator is just way too big to hide.
This is the only thing where they shine: size. I wish a bold company will try to make a small one based on compressors.
If they find it, point out how it isn't an actual refrigerator. It only has a peltier cooling device, no refrigerants involved
@@MrDjoppiothe mini-fridge already uses a small compressor. You could try making it smaller, but then you have the same problems as the peltier. It wouldn't move enough heat and the box would not have enough insulation.
@@hive_indicator318 comparatively, even when faced with corporate explanations, you do have a case to claim, "See, this isn't a personal refrigerator! It's a small computer storage room!"
To add to the "hilariously niche uses for a Peltier fridge" pile, I am considering using one to store feeder insect larva for my pet lizard.
Lower temperatures cause most bugs to 'hibernate' which keeps them from metamorphosing too soon, but typical fridge temperatures can sometimes kill them.
this may be the only valid use for such lukewarm fridges
This reminds me, I need to restock the tiny fridge in the bedroom for my wife's emergency diabetes juice. We got it for a wedding gift.
Aaaaahhh! I snorted spicy ramen broth out my nose laughing so hard at your comparison to your home fridge to the blue box! It burns!
If you've gotta keep something at a quite specific temperature, the solid state reversible peltier is perfection.
It's uniquely suited to keeping things precisely tepid, not getting too big for its britches and trying to be a fridge.
I'm sure some scientist out there is using these things in their proper application. (Bulky compressors with brute force bang-bang relay operation will swing temps, but you can PID tune these piddly little TECs)
Thermo-electric Dehumidifiers!
They are, in fact, being used to cool some spectrometer detectors, since they aren't generating a lot of watts of heat that need to be transported away, but do need to be kept very cold - and the cold side of a Peltier element can get very cold because you aren't limited by the refrigerant's boiling temperature.
Bang-bang relay make arcy-sparky fun times. Magic square not fun times. Don't want.
Yup, peltiers are the way to go to stabilise temperature of lab laser diodes. Small size, bidirectionality and ease of control circuit are unbeatable, especially in cases of low power dissipated in the diode itself and wanting to keep the temperature just a bit higher than ambient. Peltiers scale very well into region of low power temperature control.
The big problem is that the Peltier device is a good thermal conductor, so all the heat energy you're 'pumping' from one side to the other is just trying to leak back. They can be reasonably efficient if you keep the Delta-T low and stack devices, but then you loose the advantage of cheap. I built a microscope cold stage (to chill insects into dormancy for examination) and used a liquid cooling plate on the hot side. If the cooling tank was filled with ambient temperature water, the system would gradually loose efficiency and eventually start heating the cold stage. Drop a couple of freezer packs into the tank first and it would happily run all day. A fun trick was to put some drops of water onto the stage and slowly take the temperature down below 0C. I had liquid water down to at least -5C.
one good use for a Peltier is actually the opposite of whats its being used for here
they work in reverse aka a temp diffrence will generate a voltage (called the Seebeck effect) so can be used as a power source when reliability is key such as spacecraft or radio transmitters, heat up one side with Plutonium and a massive heatsink of the other side and boom you have a Radioisotope thermoelectric generator (RTG)
Not only are Peltier elements reversible in that if you reverse the voltage you can heat opposite sides, it's fully reversible in that if you have a temperature differential you can get voltage out of it! I've seen it be used for a cast-iron fireplace fan made to blow the hot air out into the room once it's hot
THAT'S how those fans I see sitting on the homesteaders stoves on youtube work. I knew it was the heat somehow, didn't know they had a peltier in them.
@piquat1 Those little homestead stove fans are probably Stirling engines, actually. They have more moving parts, but use zero electronics.
nah my boss has one, they're Peltier devices for sure. It's a two piece heatsink with one sandwiched between. The upper section dissipates sufficient heat for it to run a small DC motor
That shirt hits me in the feels for Norway at the World Showcase at EPCOT.
Great video. It might be interesting to look at Peltier devices being used in reverse (using a temperature differential to generate electrical energy) which can be used to make things like fans for wood-burning stoves
The efficieny in that direction is really bad
In the case of fans for wood stoves, sterling engines seem to be the way to go. It might be fun to compare the energy efficiency of the two systems
@@metrikmechanik Sure, but it's practically free energy (not the same thing as free energy generator, which is a fictional device)
I expect that is already his next video. He loves to find parallels in videos.
They definitely already exist, but the power produced is only really useful for small wireless sensors and things like that. Running a fan... maybe? But you'd need the same setup with a big heat sink to dissipate heat on the cool side and then possibly a fan to keep that side cool too. It's equally messy and might as well just use a small battery at that point. But you're eight about it being free energy, but only a tiny bit is available. You also have to be careful because its not scalable since if you pulled too much heat from the system then it wouldn't vent properly.
You saved me from creating $30 of e-waste. I’d always been tempted to pick one of those up. I had no idea how bad they were.
It made me want one honestly, it sounds great for drinks on road trips in my car without having to deal with ice.
@@jimmjamme3067Problem is your car isn't running for 24 hours
it's good for keeping beverages cool in your car.
not for food.
I heard about pletier coolers about 10-15 years back and thought it was just the coolest shit.
Then I asked "wait a sec if this is so good why isn't everyone using it?"
It's insane how right on the money he was with the "what you probably thought when you first found out about the peltier effect" part
I have a peltier air drier. My favourite moment with it was when I saw it accumulate a good amount of water in the morning, only to find it has all evaporated by lunch.
I had a small one and it worked very well. I gave it to a friend who needed it more and they love it.
I had one but it didn't do much even in a very humid climate. Then I bought a real dehumidifier with a compressor, and oh boy how fast it can make a room dry 😊
The speed and reversibility advantages of peltier are pretty helpful in lab settings. When you need small amounts heated and cooled quickly and precisely, Peltier is your friend.
"Quicklier"...I love it.
"more quicklier", even!
I don't pay the electric bill at the office so I'll just keep my "Blue lump of sadness" at my desk.😂
The problem with thermoelectric devices is that it is hard to have a material that has a high Peltier coefficient (mainly influenced by the electrical conductivity) and a low heat conduction capacity. But it is a field of active research. Not only for cooling applications, but also for energy generations. A nice feature of Peltier devices is that they are reversible, they can generate electricity if one side is hot and the other is cold. So they are a promising way to get energy back from waste heat, for example.
So much respect for acknowledging that the makeup and skincare folks had found a legitimate use for these even if it's not something you would necessarily use it for yourself.
Yeesss, my first TC video way way back when was the "portable air conditioners suck" one and I'll always love the snarkiest episodes the most
Not to mention the energy needed to remove the heat created/moved by the chiller that is dumped into your house. That Emerson is dumping WAY more heat energy and all that heat has to be removed... so we can add that as yet another cost of operation.
14:30 European here. Alec this time you've outdone yourself😂😂.
The "you commie" part made me laugh like a mad and the "this stupid thing" voice you made made me laugh even more and fall off the chair. Boy do I like the humor in this video
Alec's home fridge isn't a real American fridge. If it will fit in the back of a Ford F150 it is just a toy 🙂
@@MrDuncl What if it fits in the back of an F-350 long bed.
@@galaxyanimal Yes. That is certified American size 🙂
"Spoiler alert! No" LOL I nearly spit out my drink. Love the video's... and snarky style.
Something else you should know is that Peltier coolers are less efficient the more power you put through them. Tech ingredients did several videos on them.
Hehe a video on Peltier modules just a couple weeks after I rigged a quick test cloud chamber running on 3 stacked peltiers! It's been years I wanted to play with Peltiers, and I wanted something useful, here it is! Now, I was fully expecting to struggle to reach low temps on this, and I was shocked to fire up the system for the first time and find out the cold plate reaches -40°C/F! I used modules from known brands though, from Mouser, and sized somewhat correctly I guess. Hot side (CPU waterblock) -> 110W TEC -> 60W TEC -> 24W TEC -> Cold side, all same voltage modules, wired in parallel, rated at 16.6V but I got the lowest temperature powering them with 10V instead. I seem to remember it eats around 100-130W or so running. Still pumps a lot of power for not much, but it was very very simple to build and does the job perfectly for that application. So indeed for the correct application, these are wonderful things! Now I have the motivation to keep working on this little project and build a proper small cloud chamber! I'm gonna place Type K temperature sensors at every point to see how each stage performs.
That sounds awesome, I hope you can video that chamber and how you're building it!?
@@Quickened1 I'm probably gonna make an assembly and test video when I'm done. It will be a bit later though, limited time to work on that now.
I was looking for this comment. Add a thermostat and better insulation, and maybe the energy consumption no longer outweighs the benefits?
@@Slay3rOne I've been intrigued by the cloud chamber since Tech Ingredients built one on their channel. A 3 stage Peltier driven one tho, that's on another level. Average Joe might even be able to put one together if it's simple enough... Hope to see it some day!
@@NepTunez-ff9bp It's already very well insulated, and this thing requires around -30°C, so I could use a small circuit to regulate them to that temperature, it will consume less power. Also the cold side is a 10mm (0.4in) thick and 10cm (4in) diameter aluminium disc. So it definitely stays cold for a bit when I shut the TEC modules down, that would help with the regulation. Overall it's still gonna consume a lot, but built right with correct insulation and throttling when reaching the target temperature, it should be acceptable for this application.
Friend had one of those.
Kept complaining about it, so I went over to improve it.
Changed the Peltier from a 5A to a 10A Model (120W), changed the thermal paste to actual good one, added a bigger hot side heat sink and ofc upgraded the power supply.
It worked much better afterwards!
For the low price of doubling the electrical consuption, and almost trippling the original purchasing price 😂😂😂😂
"to keep it from destroying itself"
yeah, my attempt at running them backwards to generate power died pretty quickly
A 12V portable dual zone car camping unit is going to be a much better option. Maybe do a video on one of those? They've come down in price significantly over the last few years.
I’m going to second that! I have a 12 V/120 V cooler type camping refrigerator looks like a large cooler, but has an actual vapor cycle refrigeration system in it, and I think I am getting about 1 A continuous drain at 12 V. I know a 50 amp hour lithium iron phosphate battery will run it for about three days. Plus it plugs in. When I’m not traveling or camping or going to picnics with it, I leave it plugged in. It makes a great drink cooler! And, since I have Batteries due to being an amateur radio operator, if I have a power failure I can put my medication and some perishable foods into it.
I have one that has been running 24/7 for almost 4 years, from solar/battery power.
I too have one of those compressor Chinese car refrigerator freezer units that has been running 24\7 for 3 or 4 years with no problems. Runs on my 12 volt solar power system and draws 2 amps when the compressor is running. Cools down to -4 F when you want hard ice cream.
No McD.L.T. comparison with the Peltier device's "hot side hot/cool side cool" property? I guess "pillow" would be a less fun alt. At least you saved big money at Menarrrrds.
I just *wish* I had something desk-top to keep my my tea cool/warm every day, silently. But I also saw someone actually make something like that, and it involved quite a lot of things I'd not consider safe on my desk.
refrigeration cycle for the win!
I want to build my own... is it difficult? I mean woröd market leader is close to where I live
I keep a mini fridge on my porch full of soda and beer. On the lowest setting, everything is just right.
I've been refreshing TH-cam repeatedly hoping one of your videos would drop today 👐🏻
For a lot of people the little fridges are handy because they’ve got limited space and even a small mini fridge would be too big. I’ve seen some compressor based powered coolers that are almost that small, but because they’re special they’re also expensive.
I got one of the crappy little ones for free since it quit working. Was able to use a power supply to run it since the circuit board that made 12v had failed. Works well enough to keep a couple of water bottles cool. 50° water seems pretty cold coming in from 90° heat.
I bought a little 6-can fridge like that for my college dorm, so I could hide beer in a place the RAs would never look. That was 10 years ago -the damn thing still somehow works to this day. I keep it next to my work desk to hold seltzer.
Outside of niche little scenarios like this, I wouldn't recommend one. Especially not at the stupid prices they ask for them nowadays.
Me One Second After Reading the Title of a new Technology Connections Video: "I just learned this thing existed, but I now have strong opinions on it."
PATREON GANG LETS GOOOOOOO!!!
Here here! 🎉
I’ve got a peltier effect cooler that holds a 24 pack or 2 or 3 2 liters. It’s been frigging amazing. Able to bring the temp of a bottle of pop down to cold in a few hours. I paid 80 bucks for it and it has fans **INSIDE** and outside It works really well. And it’s able to switch between cooling and warming. It does make a good bit of noise but having a fridge in my bedroom is incredible the only annoyance i have with it is that the internal element does like to freeze up. But switching it to heat mode for 10 minutes will defrost the internal heatsink. I bought it because i needed **SOMETHING** to cool some stuff when i was homeless.
At first I wondered where you got electricity, but then remembered: the same place I did.
SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL LIBRARIES, PEOPLE! They literally kept me from dying this summer.
I did an engineering internship at a company that manufactures both the thermoelectric cooling components and the finished products that they go into. What I was working on were the control electronics for one of their refrigerators. The idea behind it was to have a (somewhat) more quiet fridge for storing breast milk in NICU units at hospitals. I was told by multiple people who worked there that energy efficiency wise, these can’t compete with traditional refrigerators. To be fair to that fridge, it actually could get cold enough to store the milk (it could go below freezing point of water IIRC).
As for where the company is today, they’ve been going through some layoffs lately. Unconfirmed AFAIK, but I’ve heard they were also doing business with the Russians after the sanctions hit, believe it was some Bismuth related manufacturing process they were getting from them.
Small correction : While its true that isobutane is commonly used as a refrigerant gaz for fridges, your mini-frige uses cyclopentane as indicated by the big c-pentane label on the back of it. Nonetheless, all the things you mentionned about isobutane should apply to cyclopentane as well, so it's not a big deal.
I'm more impressed by the temperature logging thingy than that Fridge. Good thing I didn't shell out $200 for the Desktop Beverage Fridge shaped like a TARDIS from the old THINK GEEK site.
Truckers use these because they’re cheap and easier to install than an actual 12v fridge. They work very well for when you’re on the road and don’t want to spend $800 on a Kenworth fridge and have it professionally installed and all that. A lot of them have a DC plug and you just toss it on your bed and plug it right into a cigarette lighter. Boom, ya got a fridge in your truck.
I had one similar to that. It quit working after a while so took the guts out, replaced the peltier module and thermal paste, installed a cheap temp controler and a higher speed fan, modified the case for it all to fit, and ran it on a bigger power supply. A lot of work but now has no problem getting down to 35f in a hot shop
We used Peltier cooling for x-ray detectors for vibration free concentrated cooling.
For our neutron detectors it was not enough so we cooled them with liquid nitrogen instead.
I'm a truck driver and I use a Coleman Peltier cooler in addition to the fridge in the truck. I keep things like fresh produce, butter, cheese, and non dairy milk replacement in it. I also move things to the actual fridge through the week as I use up the meats and prepared food. I would rather buy a proper compressor style cooler but I'll be moving to a local job in the next few months and can't justify the expense. It does the job well enough for me, but I don't love it and steer other drivers to spend the money on a proper solution.
Edit: the thing I'll add though is the Coleman cooler has a fan inside to move the air around. I find that if I keep the outside of the Peltier near an AC vent then the cooler does get cold enough to feel sufficiently chilled. I've never bothered putting a thermometer in there though because tbh I don't actually want to know
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Small Peltier coolers are well used in amateur and sometimes professional astrophotography (trying to pick up a few photons on a CCD or CMOS chip camera), cooling the relatively small chip down to about -20C. Makes a big difference in reducing image background "noise", at least in this one usage. Never actually tested power usage, but you can plug system into 120 volt outlets or battery operated units without popping a 20 amp circuit breaker. Little 'fins' along the side of the unit release heat into the outdoor air.
Sounds like the major problem is the lack of thermostat and insulation. Not sure 7C vrs 3C makes that much difference for the kind of stuff you would have in it.
all I took away from the entire video was, the Toy needs Vapor pipes to improve efficency.
If there was a way to make a good miniature heat pump powered by DC, I'd be all over it.
Coming soon: Thermonuclear Handwarmers
Fun fact: if you apply heat to one side of a Peltier module and use a heatsink on the other side to create a temperature differential, it will (like an electric motor if you spin it) generate electricity.
The house I grew up in had wood burning stoves in it, and we had a couple of peltier-powered fans to distribute the heat around the room better. The fans doubled up as air distribution devices and as coolers for one side of the peltier modules, the other was heated by standing the (metal bodied) fan on top of the stove.
Peltiers are used in dedicated astrophotography cameras in order to cool the imaging sensors which reduces read noise in our images. Perfect use for them, in my opinion! Great video as always.
My neck chiller is great and you'll never convince me otherwise. 🤣
I haven't gotten to the practical uses section yet, but that's #1 on mine.
I'm a building engineer at a hospital and they're starting to sell these as full-size refrigerators and their marketing them as no refrigerant non-toxic which the hospital saw as a benefit because a lot of small refrigerators nowadays use propane luckily I was able to point out the flaws before we bought almost 50 of these units and I can't even imagine the nightmare of these units with them constantly being opened and closed
Appreciate the video, i wasnt aware those little coolers were so popular when ac power was available.
I will say, as an american truck driver, peltier coolers are a very convenient device in my day to day work. It runs off dc, and the trick to use them is to fill them up and replace as you use.
The coleman 42qt thermoelectric cooler holds about 10*34oz beverages. It takes approximately 18 hours to cool those beverages to a pleasant drinking temperature. But once the entire thermal mass is cooled, replacing a beverage doesnt drastically increase the overall temp.
Did the math when i first got my cdl on the cost of ice in truck stops and after approximately 3 months the thermoelectrics pay for themselves. Meanwhile, if i want actual food safe compressor refrigeration in the truck, i have to replace the mini fridge right around every 12-18 months because the jostling of the truck on u.s. roads loves to kill them
I feel like these would make a nice sterling engine desk toy. That's about it.
It's a bit odd that the mini fridge has a big cyclopentane sticker yet it uses isobutane.
Ever since i learned of peltier devices and thermoelectric cooling, ive had the idea of making a jacket that has a tube full of water running through the inside, which is then cooled/heated using peltiers to keep the temperature in a more comfortable range so you can wear your favourite jacket even when its quite nippy outside. Someone who has more experience working with these devices can tell me how bad / good of an idea that might be
I quickly learned the effectiveness of these little coolers after attempting to use the one my roommate had in college to chill a pint of ice cream, and coming back not all that much later to find that it had melted.
About a decade ago, I found out about Peltier modules and thought they were so awesome, I'd make a "plate cooler" to cool the bottom of pots super quick.
It ended up being super power inefficient, needed huge finned coolers. I ended up taking out the PTE modules, butting the fins up to the cooling plate, then using a peristaltic pump to move water across the fins. It used significantly less power and was far better, all for an tiny increase in the height of the device.
The Galanz fridge beating anything is pretty crazy.
THE GREATEST CHANNEL THAT HAS EVER EXISTED
It’s a niche market, but lots of scientific devices use peltiers for precision cooling. Not sure if they use PWM or what, but a tenth of a degree precision is achievable.
My dad's old camper van has a different kind of fridge that I'd never heard of before: an absorption refrigerator! It has the benefit of having no moving parts, but (as my dad found out) they kick out a lot more heat than a vapor-compression refrigerator. He dramatically improved the performance of his one by mounting a PC fan so that it forces some airflow over the radiator at the back.
"...even more quicklier..."😆
I happened to get really cool device on my hands. It's a fan with electric motor powered from this element. Bottom is a solid metal plate and top is a heat sink. You place it on top of the furnace and because of temperature difference element starts generating electricity. Fan spins and cools heatsink preventing heat equilibrium while fulfilling its purpose, mixing hot air from the furnace inside the room.
From what I understand 1 spot where peltiers can be useful is in lab environments where you need to get stuff extremely cold.
But wait. Didn't he say they only they only cooled about 30 degrees below ambient? Well fun fact. You can stack peltier stages. Google showing somewhere in the 135C below ambient range for a 3-4 stage peltier. This would be use when you need say a specific sensor to be nice and frosty.
If your trying to do a lab freezer at those temps though you use a 2 stage refrigerant based system but those are bulky.
Jesus, I was in the market for a midget fridge in my room and the one in the thumbnail looked EXACTLY the same as the one I was perusing.
The algorithm did its job for once, thank you for making the video!
In an occasional class I taught on the refrigeration cycle I used 'canned air' as a refrigerant substitute. Invert the can and spray it through a tube and the tube gets cold. Spray the same way into a styrofoam cup and you can collect liquid 'refrigerant' that will stay liquid until heat is added. (safety, yadda, yadda, PPE, etc.). This demonstration gave many people that "AH-HA!" moment that is tough to convey with diagrams and formulas.
This video has come about at just the right time, because I recently have been thinking about getting one of these. I knew i had to do research because i did figure there were probably quite a few options that were blatant cash grabs, but I was sure there was a good one.
I did then notice, “wow all of these use more power per year than my *actual* fridge, I wonder why that is…”
Thank you Technology Connections for once again saving me from buying something worse than a thing I already have
I have a peltier mini fridge. I use it as a 'keep drinks cold' fridge because it CANNOT keep food to a safe temperature. Update: it's one of those 'cube fridge' sized fridges that you can also get as actual vapor phase fridges. The inside cooling portion has a heatsink and a fan, and then a huge heatsink on the back with two "PC fans" blowing across that. It still only gets drinks cold enough to be pleasantly cool.
I use one to store my grape jelly for late night sammies and half can of cat food (for my cat of course, for beeakfast the next morning)
Tell me you are an alien without telling me you are an alien:
"Look, i'm a people"
Can you see how the saying "It's much bigger than a typical mini-fridge..." can be read as "This mini-fridge is bigger than most"? I understand that there are other ways to interpret it but I am not surprised many people heard this meaning.
Yes, that's also how I would have interpreted it despite it's technical ambiguity.
Thanks for the Celsius conversion, really appreciate it. It really helps understanding what you are talking about and the scale of things.
I really really appreciate the unit conversions despite your earlier statements on the topic. Thank you so much.