I love this content man, keep it up. Some suggestions for future video's if you want them: - ZvZ cheese defence guide, e.g. 13/12 speedling or banes, 12 pool expand, other forms hidden speedling floods - ZvZ how to play a muta ling bane style - ZvZ how to defend against muta ling bane while working to lurker hydra viper (or infestor) - Some style guides, as in, what are your goals with muta ling bane/hydra ling bane/ling bane ultra ZvT, or roach hydra drops ZvP, ling bane hydra ZvP, that kind of stuff. I know there are a few guides on some topics as well already, like pandabears guide on 12 pool drone pull, Lambo's standard ZvZ guide, so I could ask also to do your versions of those guides, but I'll leave that to you if you want to cover that.
I would love to see more videos of you playing vs mech. Ive felt that a maxed thor tank army was unkillable ever since the thor range buff. Anyways great video I appreciate it.
Love the video :) I love the insight into the decision making. Points I didn't know before like - Must have 90+ drones - the army composition ratio - Must be able to remax immediately with enough larva to max out on lings - the "fight then remax, fight then remax, fight then remax" approach. - only keep fighting while we have ling bane (bane if cyclone hellbat), then run away - (mentioning the points where you made mistakes) (if a player like me were to see your replay, I would think it's what I'm 'supposed' to do without your explanations - force a fight right away with broodlords because they lose value as the T is aware of them and makes Thors _ "you're allowed to fight wherever your creep reaches" A couple questions 1) When you said you only had 86 drones this game but "preferably you have more", did you have a particular reason in this video that you didn't get more - or was it just a mistake? I think you said preferably 100. 86 vs 100 seems like a quite reasonable difference 2) Is armor upgrade just not worth it vs mech?
The dronecount is a mistake in this game, I was at 90+ drones at some point, but simply didn't remake any after making a few spines/extractors. However, the 90+ dronecount benchmark is there to make sure we always have a bank to remax, so as long as we have the bank the exact number of drones doesn't really matter. As for the armor upgrade, its still useful but not as important as vs bio because of the high damage-low attackspeed of mech units, so we prioritize attack upgrades.
I definitely have to try this. Usually I go fast into hydra lurker viper, but I run out of money after like 30 minutes and lose lots of drones against run by of any kind. I don't feel able to handle that type of army.
Thanks a lot for the guide and for adding the replay ! I'm very curious to see how you use swarm hosts (you said to go SH/roach if the terran does not open BC) because whenever I try them, I either have too few of them so they are not really a threat or too many so if the T pushes I die. I feel it's very hard to find the balance. Also I might not be good enough (Diamond 1) to use them frequently enough
Yes! I agree with elazer but unironically. Haha most streamers still do hydra viper and its not worked for me. Or I max on roach ravager currupters early and all in around the time of the 2nd BC
very good guide, now I know why I keep losing against mech. It's because i make all my lings into banelings. Ending up having an army compo ravager banes.lol. I should add couple infestors too.thanks a lot! u deserved a subscribe comment and like for this one. I will be watching more of your videos and streams. thanks again!
Thank you very much for your videos, hope you'll make more and your audience will grow! I wanna ask: is there any sense in making smth like 70-80 workes and a few swarmhosts(about 7) to constantly harassing terran with locusts?
ty for the video man these guides are great. Finaly a pro zerg started make content again. I just have a question. What if he plays tank, thor and 4-5 lib. How do i deal with liberators ?
Great video. Thank you very much. Though, what about roach/hydra/viper, would it be just another style/approach or you strictly recommend to play ravager/ling/bane/infestor?
Vipers arent that great in general vs mech, because thors outrange them, so you'll end up losing alot of them through out the game. That being said you can probably still use the composition in lower leagues, but if the terran plays correctly it should be hard to win.
This is awesome, do you think that this is easier than going hydra lurker viper? Going like 10 vipes is so good because youre able to abduct a lot into the luker like and insta kill
How does this change if you are going 2 base muta? (and same if they aren't going bc into mech) since you are a bit more economically behind, is the transition significantly different? would love some example games on the subject if you have the time, thanks~
Well basically youre gonna try to get to the same spot as in this video, 90+ drones and ravager ling bane, you can just use your mutas to harass while droning up and getting all your tech. There really isnt much a meching terran can do to you in the midgame, you should be able to defend all timings reactively. If they keep making BCs you can either keep making mutas, or add on some corruptors. If they dont make BCs, you can still go into roachswarmhosts after making your initial mutas.
Hey thanks for the vid, really nice content but I have some concerns playing against mech players that try to max out on pure thors/tanks and I was wondering if I should add infestors faster or if rava/ling/bane is enough ?
I mentioned it briefly at around 10:40 - 10:45 in the video. But in general, if they have a thor heavy composition its fine to add in more infestors with nerual + burrow, just make sure you have a decent bank before you do this. Earlier on, before the thors are heavily upgraded, roach ravager ling bane can fight just fine vs them.
So your first engagement happens at almost 12 minutes. In my league they just build up Thor, Tank, and Lib with a smattering of mine or hellbat as needed. I feel like engaging that with ravager ling bane is a recipe for disaster. At 12 minutes there gonna have a pretty high Thor tank count. Would this still work? It feels like no since I’ve tried LBH or LBL…
Responded on this subject on another comment already, but basically vipers arent that good vs mech bacause abduct gets out ranged by Thors, so youll loose a viper or two in almost every small engage, and if youre playing viper styles you can ONLY fight when you have viper energy. But like I said in the other comment, below high level, you could probably use vipers and do well vs mech.
Great video, getting back to the game after leaving just before lotv came out and your videos help a LOT. But i do have a question, at 15:44 you said your trade would have been worth it if you had Taken his b4 and 5. As you have the bank and the larvas, is sending about 20 banes on each to take them down worth?
Depends abit on how the game is going, if you are sure that hes low on money, then it can be a good move. If he has a big bank though, its gonna end up being an inefficient trade for you, and hes just gonna fly a new CC there right away so keep that in mind!
Good content. But can you beat this T composition? (Lib, viking, tank, ghost, a few rings) us.forums.blizzard.com/en/sc2/t/watch-this-video-see-if-you-can-find-a-way-to-counter-this-composition-in-zvt-unit-data-is-listed-for-comparison/20216/3 I don't see an effective way to counter it. It will be amazon if you can demo a counter in dark's place to this compo.
@@SortOfSC Thanks. When it reaches to that point, you also agreed "it will be a slow death", right? If we compare the data listed in that post, zerg is weaker in all perspectives, no matter it is air, magic or ground units... out ranged, hard countered ... I can hardly believe this is still a balanced game after comparing those numbers.
![[Watch Party] RoV Pro League 2024 Winter | with Moowan ( Bacon Time Vs Talon )](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CCEDhu6dPN8/mqdefault.jpg)
what a great guide, finally i can win against mech
I literally watched it before playing mech and it helped me beat it solidly and give me a direction of how to play it, great one mate !
I love this content man, keep it up.
Some suggestions for future video's if you want them:
- ZvZ cheese defence guide, e.g. 13/12 speedling or banes, 12 pool expand, other forms hidden speedling floods
- ZvZ how to play a muta ling bane style
- ZvZ how to defend against muta ling bane while working to lurker hydra viper (or infestor)
- Some style guides, as in, what are your goals with muta ling bane/hydra ling bane/ling bane ultra ZvT, or roach hydra drops ZvP, ling bane hydra ZvP, that kind of stuff.
I know there are a few guides on some topics as well already, like pandabears guide on 12 pool drone pull, Lambo's standard ZvZ guide, so I could ask also to do your versions of those guides, but I'll leave that to you if you want to cover that.
Might add in some general cheese defense like proxy 4-gate, cannon rush, proxy racks etc. I can never have enough help on those
I would love to see more videos of you playing vs mech. Ive felt that a maxed thor tank army was unkillable ever since the thor range buff. Anyways great video I appreciate it.
Got another video coming out tomorrow, should be useful for you!
I just crushed a mech boy on ladder using this style. Your now officially my favorite zerg player lol
I always struggle against mech. This is super helpful!
Thanks SortOf this is exactly what i needed :) Great work
so much great content, keep it up !
Thats the guide i needed! Thx SortOf!
This was very helpful, thank you!
Good video!
Love the video :) I love the insight into the decision making. Points I didn't know before like
- Must have 90+ drones
- the army composition ratio
- Must be able to remax immediately with enough larva to max out on lings
- the "fight then remax, fight then remax, fight then remax" approach.
- only keep fighting while we have ling bane (bane if cyclone hellbat), then run away
- (mentioning the points where you made mistakes) (if a player like me were to see your replay, I would think it's what I'm 'supposed' to do without your explanations
- force a fight right away with broodlords because they lose value as the T is aware of them and makes Thors
_ "you're allowed to fight wherever your creep reaches"
A couple questions
1) When you said you only had 86 drones this game but "preferably you have more", did you have a particular reason in this video that you didn't get more - or was it just a mistake? I think you said preferably 100. 86 vs 100 seems like a quite reasonable difference
2) Is armor upgrade just not worth it vs mech?
The dronecount is a mistake in this game, I was at 90+ drones at some point, but simply didn't remake any after making a few spines/extractors. However, the 90+ dronecount benchmark is there to make sure we always have a bank to remax, so as long as we have the bank the exact number of drones doesn't really matter.
As for the armor upgrade, its still useful but not as important as vs bio because of the high damage-low attackspeed of mech units, so we prioritize attack upgrades.
I definitely have to try this. Usually I go fast into hydra lurker viper, but I run out of money after like 30 minutes and lose lots of drones against run by of any kind. I don't feel able to handle that type of army.
Thanks a lot for the guide and for adding the replay !
I'm very curious to see how you use swarm hosts (you said to go SH/roach if the terran does not open BC) because whenever I try them, I either have too few of them so they are not really a threat or too many so if the T pushes I die. I feel it's very hard to find the balance. Also I might not be good enough (Diamond 1) to use them frequently enough
Great content! Between you and Vibe I'm on the cusp of Masters! I really appreciate the work you put in to teach us all!
Yes! I agree with elazer but unironically. Haha most streamers still do hydra viper and its not worked for me. Or I max on roach ravager currupters early and all in around the time of the 2nd BC
very good guide, now I know why I keep losing against mech. It's because i make all my lings into banelings. Ending up having an army compo ravager banes.lol. I should add couple infestors too.thanks a lot! u deserved a subscribe comment and like for this one. I will be watching more of your videos and streams. thanks again!
Thank you very much for your videos, hope you'll make more and your audience will grow! I wanna ask: is there any sense in making smth like 70-80 workes and a few swarmhosts(about 7) to constantly harassing terran with locusts?
damn this is really useful to me on ladder thanks man
Comment for the algorithm
ty for the video man these guides are great. Finaly a pro zerg started make content again. I just have a question. What if he plays tank, thor and 4-5 lib. How do i deal with liberators ?
Usually corrosive bile is enough to deal with liberators.
Great guide! I see why I always lose vs mech. I'm very impatient 😅. I'm 5250mmr and 40% vs terran. Do you ever come across larger BC numbers or nukes?
this video explains so much...
thank you.
Great video. Thank you very much. Though, what about roach/hydra/viper, would it be just another style/approach or you strictly recommend to play ravager/ling/bane/infestor?
Vipers arent that great in general vs mech, because thors outrange them, so you'll end up losing alot of them through out the game. That being said you can probably still use the composition in lower leagues, but if the terran plays correctly it should be hard to win.
This is awesome, do you think that this is easier than going hydra lurker viper? Going like 10 vipes is so good because youre able to abduct a lot into the luker like and insta kill
How does this change if you are going 2 base muta? (and same if they aren't going bc into mech) since you are a bit more economically behind, is the transition significantly different?
would love some example games on the subject if you have the time, thanks~
Well basically youre gonna try to get to the same spot as in this video, 90+ drones and ravager ling bane, you can just use your mutas to harass while droning up and getting all your tech. There really isnt much a meching terran can do to you in the midgame, you should be able to defend all timings reactively. If they keep making BCs you can either keep making mutas, or add on some corruptors. If they dont make BCs, you can still go into roachswarmhosts after making your initial mutas.
Hey thanks for the vid, really nice content but I have some concerns playing against mech players that try to max out on pure thors/tanks and I was wondering if I should add infestors faster or if rava/ling/bane is enough ?
I mentioned it briefly at around 10:40 - 10:45 in the video. But in general, if they have a thor heavy composition its fine to add in more infestors with nerual + burrow, just make sure you have a decent bank before you do this. Earlier on, before the thors are heavily upgraded, roach ravager ling bane can fight just fine vs them.
So your first engagement happens at almost 12 minutes. In my league they just build up Thor, Tank, and Lib with a smattering of mine or hellbat as needed. I feel like engaging that with ravager ling bane is a recipe for disaster. At 12 minutes there gonna have a pretty high Thor tank count.
Would this still work? It feels like no since I’ve tried LBH or LBL…
Beautiful game
Why dont you use a viper based army, e.g. roach hydra viper and trade until your vipers run out of energy?
Responded on this subject on another comment already, but basically vipers arent that good vs mech bacause abduct gets out ranged by Thors, so youll loose a viper or two in almost every small engage, and if youre playing viper styles you can ONLY fight when you have viper energy. But like I said in the other comment, below high level, you could probably use vipers and do well vs mech.
Is it worh to do 3rd evo for armor upgrade, or melee and range attack is enough, and star 2nd armor after 3/3 attacks?
You could add a 3rd one if you want, but I wouldnt make too early, its important that youre able to max out and start building a bank.
@@SortOfSC ok, thx
Great video, getting back to the game after leaving just before lotv came out and your videos help a LOT. But i do have a question, at 15:44 you said your trade would have been worth it if you had Taken his b4 and 5. As you have the bank and the larvas, is sending about 20 banes on each to take them down worth?
Depends abit on how the game is going, if you are sure that hes low on money, then it can be a good move. If he has a big bank though, its gonna end up being an inefficient trade for you, and hes just gonna fly a new CC there right away so keep that in mind!
@@SortOfSC okay thank you ! I'll keep that in mind
Good content.
But can you beat this T composition? (Lib, viking, tank, ghost, a few rings)
us.forums.blizzard.com/en/sc2/t/watch-this-video-see-if-you-can-find-a-way-to-counter-this-composition-in-zvt-unit-data-is-listed-for-comparison/20216/3
I don't see an effective way to counter it.
It will be amazon if you can demo a counter in dark's place to this compo.
I actually did some analysis on this game together with Elazer! th-cam.com/video/tR5cpz7hdgQ/w-d-xo.html
@@SortOfSC Thanks. When it reaches to that point, you also agreed "it will be a slow death", right? If we compare the data listed in that post, zerg is weaker in all perspectives, no matter it is air, magic or ground units... out ranged, hard countered ... I can hardly believe this is still a balanced game after comparing those numbers.