Forty has now beat happy 3-0 in the last 3 major tournament finals (Huashan Sword Cup, Ancient of Wonders cup, and I believe either Don't force me cup or B2W weekly cup, one of those two). We haven't seen anything like this in 5+ years, no one has consistently beat Happy in this style before. Forty is a clear example of how powerful Hamans can be verse Undead when played near perfect. Sok, who is the #2 rank human in the world according to ELO stats feels like he's a lot behind Forty. For instance, Sok has lost his last 7 encounters verse happy and he has less then a 15% winrate against him. Fortitude mastered the race. He showed and proved to us that you don't have to instantly push for an expo, you can harass a bit, creep to lvl 2 and then push for one. Offense is the best defense, Forti will keep pressure on Happy's expos and wont let him breath. And will control the map / early game by doing so since his expo comes up much faster.. he uses the advantage to apply pressure to happy's expo. He will then continue applying PRESSURE with AM and Foots + DK to buy time till t3 and keep the UD out of his face. It's soo clever and his Macro / game sense is unbelievable. He will do this and stall the game, get t3, and push with 3 heros, knights and gyros. As Neo says he has the best GYRO micro ever. The way he controls and groups his air units, splits them, and pressures is like something we've never seen before. I thought Hawk was good at Gyro micro but you can clearly see Forti is levels ahead. I do think Happy still has the best micro in the world, but Forti's Macro is a bit better - espeically when playing such a difficult race like human with so much going on. Now I will say, I do believe happy will figure out a counter (As he always does) but regardless what Forti's doing is soo great. HUMAN vs UNDEAD is the best matchup we've seen to date on this current patch in the history of wc3. I think we can all agree to this. And to have the top 2 players in the world go at it is just such a treat for us. I hope Forti continues to hold his ground verse happy and move on to win in RA RA LAND, that would be such a great accomplishment for him!
i remember a couple years or so back, when grand finals was always eer0 vs happy, eer0 managed to win like 3 in a row. he has not played that good for a while though.
Great comment, I do think Happy still have great macro, I think Hum is a bit overtuned atm and Forti can already beat happy pre UD nerfs, the nerfs was just hook line and sinker. Forti found the answer to Happy's answer vs Humans. When Forti no longe loses to other race he might just stomp every competition unless Happy comes up with the answer, true. Too bad no Raraland Happy, I hope that raraland would go well.
Feels like the way happy fast expanding like how humans expand 2 years ago. Just put down expo whenever you have gold for it. The way forti build expo now is he wait until its secured. So he dont cancel the expo 5 times a game.
Destroyers are always Happys bread and butter, but they are no longer working against this human army composition. Impale doesnt work against air either and undead has no clear solution against the gyro and gryphon army. Maybe happy should try a DK first approach here or could experiment with gargoyles.
it's just a fact that human t3 is much way better than not only undead t3 but any other also. There is no way to play something changed compared to fiends and destros. Gargs will be also destroyed by any human, who knows how to use gyros.
Happy won 2 out of 3 t1 tournaments in 2024 and lost 1 in grand finals. I don’t think ud is in bad place. 1:04:12 forty is attacking with 7 footies + am + mk+2 water elemental happy tps in with solo cl. Tell me which mega nerf was in play here? Or when he forgot to cancel expansion against just footies and so on and on… Relax mate happy sometimes does this gets stubborn but he will change a strat and continue dominating:)
Ah yes. 5 years of just a click ground on lumber workers and end any other pro in 5 sec without any need to micro? Just because you hit the right "timing" which every other race pros do by default? The past 5 years have been a mega joke with out of the world broken ghouls. Every stats on every MMR showed UD domination. It wasn't even just Happy. It was EVERY undead player in warcraft 3.
The game was a 2-2 and a close third game, yet a lot of people are crying about balance issues. Happy is trying out a CL strategy, which is not perfected, and Forty is the best HU atm. Maybe Happy will perfect his strategy, which strategy is btw dominating the new meta. Just because Forty can win againts Happy, it doesnt mean HU can beat UD easily.
They don't give that much XP. Also they don't expire, and that's the downside. You can end up with a lot of low HP beetles, if you don't re-summon them. I think, it's fine. The important lvl for AM is lvl 3, and he gets that without beetles. They also don't really feed him lvl 4. Most of them get killed by towers. So imo they don't have such a huge impact, unless you have a lot of mana items on CL and always run them into the expo, while AM is there.
Spoiler: Game 1, I like the 2 early workshops, but I wold have liked to see 2 knights after losing the footmen. He had the money, was far enough below 50 and Happy had 2 fiends and made 2 more. Imo it's worth it. Happy won't go banshees for 2 knights, and they are really strong against fiends, and in any way better than the footmen he still had around 15 minutes into the game, when he broke 50 supply.
They nerfed healing scroll affecting ghouls and gargoyle. They also nerfed fiends, abom's rot recently. - staff of negation was nerfed before any pros used it Crypt lord is recently buffed, not much options UD have vs knights... Hopefully changes will be made so staff of negation actually appear in the pro games...
It’s not that lich is bad but cl got buffed and gameplay changed. Carapace went from 15/25/35 to 15/30/45 dmg return. 3/5/7 armor to 4/8/12. Impale mana cost reduced by 10%. They also buffed abos and necros and ud expansion all works better with cl. Labby won few games vs forty with dk into lich start. But he also won with cl so there is that.
Undead either goes CL first and gets owned by the gryphon and gyros with the constant AM harrass making them bleed out resources, or it doesn't and gets owned even harder by the ground army from Human. Right now the matchup is definitely Human favoured.
@@yigitkabaday3179 And you say that based on happy losing to forty in 1 out of 3 t1 tournaments? ( 2 was won by happy). Happy has 92% win rate against hu in this patch 120 62% Labby 60% ( including vs forty :)) ) Forty has 52% winrate vs ud Sok 54% Where have you seen happy going without cl and losing can you name 1 t1 tournament in which that happened? For last 4 years including this patch. I don’t recall seeing any. Very interested in your statistic data.
Spoiler: 1st game, Forti didn't leave the water elemental behind, and got punished. After staffing in, he just had 1, and it was very close. Usually he doesn't make mistakes like that. This was THE change against Happy: leaving a WE behind to defend.
What i'm going to say right now is specifically against forti. If happy is going to start with the crypt lord then he should not go impale and beetles. Impale and armor for the footies and militia. They have low health and he needs all the mana for the impale. At least for the early game.He can always switch it up later.Also he shouldn't go for an expansion so early. He knows that the arc mage has the advantage when it comes to expansions in the beginning. He should sell his TP, only get a circlet and Shelly's to take the place of the beetles, 8 ghouls and go straight to fiends while not allowing fori to expand. That was the key to his victories in the past before the patch. one base mass push. I think if he took this advice he would start winning games again vs forti.
I learned 2 things from Forti beating Happy: 1. HU is weakest at T2 in this matchup. Forti skips T2 by massing much more footmen than is usual to dominate T1, and then teching to T3 without stopping at T2 for breakers. Back in the day Infi and th000 would stop at T2 and mass breakers, but that’s a trap. 2. HU are better at macro in general. Happy has the best micro, but gets out-classes by many NE and HU in terms of expansion timing and macro. It usually doesn’t matter because he can win with micro in small fights. But against Forti, it doesn’t matter how many footmen/water ele he kills with good micro. Forti can just harass and wait behind towers until his macro advantage becomes manifest in the form of 80 food griffins + copters + water ele. That’s a combo against which micro doesn’t help.
Nromally I like seeing HU win aganst UD but holy crap that HU air army feels dangerous. They one shot everything. It would probably feel unfair if i was to play aganst that.
That is late game army and can easily countered by t1 ud units and good hero choice. Happy went cl which is useless in air fights and almost never upgrades fiends while hu always upgrades. If anything that melee hero choice combined with t1 non upgraded units having such a close fight vs tier 3 fully upgraded army…
Elves cried for UD nerfs yet they're still in a dumpster. Ironically UD nerfs killed UD vs Hum matchup. You literally can't win against Hum as UD unless hum missplays now.
I think it's more that current meta strategy with CL isn't working; just a little bit of experimentation and creativity and I think UD can find an effective strat against. Maybe we will see more interesting strategy emerge in higher stakes tournies if they're still on this patch - have to imagine players that's when players are keen to bring something out that will catch opponent off guard and steal a game.
I feel Happy should switch back to the Lich. The cryptlord has been figured out, and the biggest problems are: -He can't pressure the AM because he has no long range nukes and is slow. -Beetles are ok, but they are also slow and don't attack very fast. They're more a meat shield than dps like ghouls. -Late game cryptlord is utterly useless. Impale only hits heroes (but does little damage), and his other skills do absolutely nothing vs gryphons. And as we saw, despite his tankiness, gryphons absolutely nuke this beetle. -Cryptlord has to win big early to mid game, otherwise him being the first hero means you have a weaker coil and nova, and a rather useless ability lv 3 impale.
this matchup is weird (fun to watch though), either HU is obliterated in mid game if UD gets expo on first/scond try or UD gets obliterated by gryphons in late game.
Spoiler Literally any Wc3 top player: Beats Happy in a tournament match once in a year at best Fortitude : Beats Happy 3 times in a row on tournament matches
All the UD players in the comments complaining that HU is too strong now 😂 HU is not too strong the balance has shifted from UD OP to equal and they don't like it. UD has been OP for years it's great to see the playing field leveled!
not at all games look awful and boring warcraft most games didn't even reach tier 3 Where is the frost wyrms, the necros, banshees, meat wagons and all the cool hero units and spells like inferno, possession, this fucking beetle shit is lame
![WC3 - [UD] Happy vs Fortitude [HU] - LB Final - Warcraft 3 All-Star League - S1 - M3](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xOCXl9apn-U/mqdefault.jpg)
![WC3 - [UD] Happy vs Fortitude [HU] - LB Final - Warcraft 3 All-Star League - S1 - M3](/img/tr.png)
![WC3 | $700 Play all 5 | [UD] Happy vs Fortitude [HU] | Don't Force Me Cup #169](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/q9M2ZpSwnY0/mqdefault.jpg)
![WC3 - [UD] XlorD vs Jens [NE] - WB Quarterfinal - Being Esports World Series 2024 - West](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zK0Cu5-v10w/mqdefault.jpg)
This bo5 deserves the [EPIC] tag.
Thank you Back2Warcraft for the content! love these showmatches
Will always watch Happy vs Forti!
Yeah,me too
Last match was sick!
Sure was!
Storm bolt + holy light ...now UD knows how it feels to get heroes instantly deleted 😅
Yeah but ud can get it with just first two hero, while hu needs 3 hero otherwise no mana .
Ud is only race that can use only 2 heroes to "come back" from horrible situations to win games by hero killing at anytime when dk/lich is high lvl.
It always have been a nightmare this human combo.
Well level 5 mk + level 5 pala + 3/3 gryphons is almost insta kill anything
Happy not so happy that day
Forty has now beat happy 3-0 in the last 3 major tournament finals (Huashan Sword Cup, Ancient of Wonders cup, and I believe either Don't force me cup or B2W weekly cup, one of those two). We haven't seen anything like this in 5+ years, no one has consistently beat Happy in this style before. Forty is a clear example of how powerful Hamans can be verse Undead when played near perfect. Sok, who is the #2 rank human in the world according to ELO stats feels like he's a lot behind Forty. For instance, Sok has lost his last 7 encounters verse happy and he has less then a 15% winrate against him. Fortitude mastered the race. He showed and proved to us that you don't have to instantly push for an expo, you can harass a bit, creep to lvl 2 and then push for one. Offense is the best defense, Forti will keep pressure on Happy's expos and wont let him breath. And will control the map / early game by doing so since his expo comes up much faster.. he uses the advantage to apply pressure to happy's expo. He will then continue applying PRESSURE with AM and Foots + DK to buy time till t3 and keep the UD out of his face. It's soo clever and his Macro / game sense is unbelievable. He will do this and stall the game, get t3, and push with 3 heros, knights and gyros. As Neo says he has the best GYRO micro ever. The way he controls and groups his air units, splits them, and pressures is like something we've never seen before. I thought Hawk was good at Gyro micro but you can clearly see Forti is levels ahead. I do think Happy still has the best micro in the world, but Forti's Macro is a bit better - espeically when playing such a difficult race like human with so much going on. Now I will say, I do believe happy will figure out a counter (As he always does) but regardless what Forti's doing is soo great. HUMAN vs UNDEAD is the best matchup we've seen to date on this current patch in the history of wc3. I think we can all agree to this. And to have the top 2 players in the world go at it is just such a treat for us. I hope Forti continues to hold his ground verse happy and move on to win in RA RA LAND, that would be such a great accomplishment for him!
What a great comment!!!
i remember a couple years or so back, when grand finals was always eer0 vs happy, eer0 managed to win like 3 in a row. he has not played that good for a while though.
@@Sabesarooyes, eero once was great vs happy. Happy totally turned it around
That's right. But it’s a bit of a pity that to defeat Happy you had to wait for a couple of patches that weakened Happy’s tactics.
Great comment, I do think Happy still have great macro, I think Hum is a bit overtuned atm and Forti can already beat happy pre UD nerfs, the nerfs was just hook line and sinker. Forti found the answer to Happy's answer vs Humans. When Forti no longe loses to other race he might just stomp every competition unless Happy comes up with the answer, true. Too bad no Raraland Happy, I hope that raraland would go well.
i love seeing people other than happy win, dont get me wrong happy is very very good, but its nice to see others on top for once
Yep many people feel that way. Nice to see the monopoly is cracking ..
@@SmoothJK It's only cracking because they changed the meta. As soon as Happy finds a new way to beat the game they will change it again.
You have to admit the AM control of Forti is just a perfection.
What a series! Each Forty/Happy matchup is must watch
Happy and Fortitude make this so entertaining. Fort did the impossible winning Happy over and over
58:12 that was a nasty juke by the footman that went unnoticed
UndeadCraft 3, that's why Happy is 5 years champ.
Honestly it's just enjoyable to watch because of this channel big effort and comments tho.
Feels like the way happy fast expanding like how humans expand 2 years ago. Just put down expo whenever you have gold for it. The way forti build expo now is he wait until its secured. So he dont cancel the expo 5 times a game.
Destroyers are always Happys bread and butter, but they are no longer working against this human army composition. Impale doesnt work against air either and undead has no clear solution against the gyro and gryphon army. Maybe happy should try a DK first approach here or could experiment with gargoyles.
it's just a fact that human t3 is much way better than not only undead t3 but any other also. There is no way to play something changed compared to fiends and destros. Gargs will be also destroyed by any human, who knows how to use gyros.
Great informative casting.
Upvote for spoiler shield!
Be honest everyone knows, the reason of happy losting is the récent MEGA nerfundead.
Happy won 2 out of 3 t1 tournaments in 2024 and lost 1 in grand finals. I don’t think ud is in bad place.
1:04:12 forty is attacking with 7 footies + am + mk+2 water elemental happy tps in with solo cl. Tell me which mega nerf was in play here? Or when he forgot to cancel expansion against just footies and so on and on…
Relax mate happy sometimes does this gets stubborn but he will change a strat and continue dominating:)
I do not know it, but it feel like that is the only thing that changed indeed, maybe only blizzard was able to beat Happy so they did.
UD's staff is a bad place, havent seen any pro use it...
Because he can't just A move with his wood harvesters now? Lmao
Ah yes. 5 years of just a click ground on lumber workers and end any other pro in 5 sec without any need to micro? Just because you hit the right "timing" which every other race pros do by default? The past 5 years have been a mega joke with out of the world broken ghouls. Every stats on every MMR showed UD domination. It wasn't even just Happy. It was EVERY undead player in warcraft 3.
i love the Meta btw.
Crypt lord is funny to watch
Where are all those experts from nerf/buff section?
Here mate. What are you interested in? :)
Well, until Happy losses everything is quite balanced
The game was a 2-2 and a close third game, yet a lot of people are crying about balance issues. Happy is trying out a CL strategy, which is not perfected, and Forty is the best HU atm. Maybe Happy will perfect his strategy, which strategy is btw dominating the new meta. Just because Forty can win againts Happy, it doesnt mean HU can beat UD easily.
Game 5 was sick -- Happy's boss DK heal coils were too strong on fiends without bringing a FireOrb for the human gyphon side
Crypt lord beetles feeds Archimage with XP too much. That is a problem.
They don't give that much XP. Also they don't expire, and that's the downside. You can end up with a lot of low HP beetles, if you don't re-summon them.
I think, it's fine. The important lvl for AM is lvl 3, and he gets that without beetles. They also don't really feed him lvl 4. Most of them get killed by towers. So imo they don't have such a huge impact, unless you have a lot of mana items on CL and always run them into the expo, while AM is there.
With Lich or DK or Dread lord first Archimage was not level 5 that fast. Beetles should be the reason I guess
Fantastic matches!
Spoiler:
Game 1, I like the 2 early workshops, but I wold have liked to see 2 knights after losing the footmen. He had the money, was far enough below 50 and Happy had 2 fiends and made 2 more. Imo it's worth it. Happy won't go banshees for 2 knights, and they are really strong against fiends, and in any way better than the footmen he still had around 15 minutes into the game, when he broke 50 supply.
i can watch forti vs happy everyday 😍
Can someone explain why Happy is now always going for CL vs Human? Were the lich nerfs that bad?
They nerfed healing scroll affecting ghouls and gargoyle. They also nerfed fiends, abom's rot recently.
- staff of negation was nerfed before any pros used it
Crypt lord is recently buffed, not much options UD have vs knights...
Hopefully changes will be made so staff of negation actually appear in the pro games...
It’s not that lich is bad but cl got buffed and gameplay changed.
Carapace went from 15/25/35 to 15/30/45 dmg return. 3/5/7 armor to 4/8/12. Impale mana cost reduced by 10%.
They also buffed abos and necros and ud expansion all works better with cl.
Labby won few games vs forty with dk into lich start. But he also won with cl so there is that.
Undead either goes CL first and gets owned by the gryphon and gyros with the constant AM harrass making them bleed out resources, or it doesn't and gets owned even harder by the ground army from Human. Right now the matchup is definitely Human favoured.
UD players have to choose between a dreadlord to fight air or Nerub to counter knights.
@@yigitkabaday3179
And you say that based on happy losing to forty in 1 out of 3 t1 tournaments? ( 2 was won by happy).
Happy has 92% win rate against hu in this patch
120 62%
Labby 60% ( including vs forty :)) )
Forty has 52% winrate vs ud
Sok 54%
Where have you seen happy going without cl and losing can you name 1 t1 tournament in which that happened? For last 4 years including this patch. I don’t recall seeing any. Very interested in your statistic data.
Happy versus Forti, what a show ! lol :)
Spoiler:
1st game, Forti didn't leave the water elemental behind, and got punished. After staffing in, he just had 1, and it was very close. Usually he doesn't make mistakes like that. This was THE change against Happy: leaving a WE behind to defend.
I also wondered about that...
What i'm going to say right now is specifically against forti. If happy is going to start with the crypt lord then he should not go impale and beetles. Impale and armor for the footies and militia. They have low health and he needs all the mana for the impale. At least for the early game.He can always switch it up later.Also he shouldn't go for an expansion so early. He knows that the arc mage has the advantage when it comes to expansions in the beginning. He should sell his TP, only get a circlet and Shelly's to take the place of the beetles, 8 ghouls and go straight to fiends while not allowing fori to expand. That was the key to his victories in the past before the patch. one base mass push. I think if he took this advice he would start winning games again vs forti.
HAPPY BOOTS MAN BOOOOOTS
I learned 2 things from Forti beating Happy:
1. HU is weakest at T2 in this matchup. Forti skips T2 by massing much more footmen than is usual to dominate T1, and then teching to T3 without stopping at T2 for breakers. Back in the day Infi and th000 would stop at T2 and mass breakers, but that’s a trap.
2. HU are better at macro in general. Happy has the best micro, but gets out-classes by many NE and HU in terms of expansion timing and macro. It usually doesn’t matter because he can win with micro in small fights. But against Forti, it doesn’t matter how many footmen/water ele he kills with good micro. Forti can just harass and wait behind towers until his macro advantage becomes manifest in the form of 80 food griffins + copters + water ele. That’s a combo against which micro doesn’t help.
Nromally I like seeing HU win aganst UD but holy crap that HU air army feels dangerous. They one shot everything. It would probably feel unfair if i was to play aganst that.
Fiends+banshees = hard counter to them
seems like if you don't crush the early game with crypt lord its over. i think he has to return to lich.
@@tcrivyeah, I agree
That is late game army and can easily countered by t1 ud units and good hero choice.
Happy went cl which is useless in air fights and almost never upgrades fiends while hu always upgrades. If anything that melee hero choice combined with t1 non upgraded units having such a close fight vs tier 3 fully upgraded army…
@@tcriv yes, I also think, against Forti, he has to go Lich. Forti is too good vs CL
Elves cried for UD nerfs yet they're still in a dumpster. Ironically UD nerfs killed UD vs Hum matchup. You literally can't win against Hum as UD unless hum missplays now.
I think it's more that current meta strategy with CL isn't working; just a little bit of experimentation and creativity and I think UD can find an effective strat against. Maybe we will see more interesting strategy emerge in higher stakes tournies if they're still on this patch - have to imagine players that's when players are keen to bring something out that will catch opponent off guard and steal a game.
Giga buffed HU vs giganerfed UD
Despite Forti performing better than Happy the match was very close, UD needs more nerfs!
I feel Happy should switch back to the Lich. The cryptlord has been figured out, and the biggest problems are:
-He can't pressure the AM because he has no long range nukes and is slow.
-Beetles are ok, but they are also slow and don't attack very fast. They're more a meat shield than dps like ghouls.
-Late game cryptlord is utterly useless. Impale only hits heroes (but does little damage), and his other skills do absolutely nothing vs gryphons. And as we saw, despite his tankiness, gryphons absolutely nuke this beetle.
-Cryptlord has to win big early to mid game, otherwise him being the first hero means you have a weaker coil and nova, and a rather useless ability lv 3 impale.
this matchup is weird (fun to watch though), either HU is obliterated in mid game if UD gets expo on first/scond try or UD gets obliterated by gryphons in late game.
why not give up destroyers and invest into banshes instead? they really counter those griffins and destroyers are doing next to nothing here
Oh Fortitude my man
Water elementals are op af...
Happy getting outplayed in the long game, satisfying af.
Matches where it comes down to the
last match are the best
Wow nice play
Wow, Forty is a power👍
I see back2warcraft I click like
I think happy should try pitlord against hum
nice overlay!!!!
great game
The best part of watching Warcraft is seeing Happy lose. He just wins so much, that cheering against him is now part of the fun. GO FORTI!!!
yeap . He is also unpleasant arrogant piece of sh/t
lame m8
Finally!)
Happy try to improve his micro skill by using forti
Spoiler
Literally any Wc3 top player: Beats Happy in a tournament match once in a year at best
Fortitude : Beats Happy 3 times in a row on tournament matches
Happy should try DL at least at TM.
i feel like if happys main was HU he´d win tbh
Is he too lazy to just play cool nova and fiends against air 😤
goooooooo
lesgoooo
Shai-hulud!
fiends cant win vs gryphons without temple of the damned units support
All the UD players in the comments complaining that HU is too strong now 😂 HU is not too strong the balance has shifted from UD OP to equal and they don't like it. UD has been OP for years it's great to see the playing field leveled!
We need more undead nerfs. More and more, let all the race be unplayable
Олег молодец, ничего не скажешь! 🦾
The no happy
เล่นอะไรกัน😅
Need spoiler shields
I knew the outcome before watching because I'm that good at guessing.
Lol happy cant just A move his wood harvesters. Hes so bad
Seeing the happy lose is extremely pleasurable.
you're so pathetic and silly...
agree ! I hate that russian arrogant orc
Reading this comment accidentally before seeing the video, is not 😅
not at all games look awful and boring warcraft most games didn't even reach tier 3
Where is the frost wyrms, the necros, banshees, meat wagons and all the cool hero units and spells like inferno, possession, this fucking beetle shit is lame
Happy + star = happy lose
Happy 3-0 again? This is too predictable. If happy loses, it’s balance issue
Happy lost= I press LIKE