Site with many photos of examples: *Retr0Bright (or RetroBright) treated plastics re-yellowing even with minimal light exposure* www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2013-01-15-retr0bright-only-temporary.htm _From discussion and reflection a hypothesis has developed which seems to fit the evidence:_ _The original damage from light causes degraded or free bromides throughout the case from the fire retardants. Retr0Bright only takes these away from the surface layer. However these bromides can migrate fairly freely through the polymer. They don't need light to do this. Migration is probably accelerated in hot conditions. These pre-existing bromines from the original damage migrate to the top and within a few years the surface is yellowed again. The rate of the regression depends on the inital extent of yellowing (the more yellowed, the more bromides down deep), heat exposure and the nature/quality of the plastics._ _If this hypothesis is correct then a UV sealant will not protect the case. Or any sealant maybe. Unless pre-formed bromides from previous light damage can be stopped from migrating to the surface (and I don't know how you would do that) Retr0Bright is only ever going to be temporary._
But what about the white, non yellowed parts of the case that were obscured, e.g. the inside of the case? That would suggest a sizable influence of UV light to all of this...
The misinformation about what causes the yellowing and what retrobrite does is absolutely staggering! It's a good example of how quickly misinformation can spread, unbridled, on many topics. One of the problems in this realm is that too many people seem to rely on their own just-so explanations for observed phenomena and then spread it in excitement, and then it becomes "true"; A good example of this is the claim that the yellowing is caused by the added brominated flame retardants, which is silly. it was a "just so" explanation provided with a bunch of chemical gibberish with the "formulation" of retrobrite, which is literally just hydrogen peroxide. The yellowing is a breakdown of the polymer and it will occur regardless. The butadiene chain of the polymer will oxidize when exposed to UV light. This causes yellowing because the breakdown results in Carbonyl radicals which form compounds which give the yellow discolouration. This has been known effectively since ABS plastic were first developed which is why plastics include UV Absorber, stabiliser, or blocker to slow down the reaction for consumer use of the plastic. "retrobrite" removes the yellowing because it is simply hydrogen peroxide, which is a strong chemical oxidizer. It catalyses oxidization of the carbonyl compounds into simpler, colourless compounds. The yellowing returns more aggressively after treatment with "retrobrite" because the oxidizer will also destroy most of the remaining UV stabiliser, absorber, or blocker compounds in the plastic. It's also not unheard of for certain UV Stabilisers, blockers, and absorbers to themselves react with the UV light in a way that causes discolouration. That might seem to defeat the purpose, but they are added with the intent of preserving the strength of the polymer, rather than the cosmetic appearance. (The butadiene polymer breaking down is why older, yellowed plastics become brittle over time, since there are much shorter polymer chains)
Not necessarily my go to choice of color: But it still amazes me that something like this exists: Qlways nice to see that these old puppies still receive some love :) Thanks, Jan!
If you spray satin clear laquer with uv blocker it prevents the yellowing from coming back but both, preventing oxygen reaching the plastic and preventing UV reaching the plastic.
I backed the Amiga 500 case kick starter a year ago and I'm still waiting. I have no doubt they'll get it out eventually, but the wait is pretty rough...
Great video. Maybe I will go for the back case one day. Psst! One idea about the keys: You could paint them in black with a spray. And reproduce yourself the key labels with DECALS. It's a kind of special paper to transfer the labels to the keys. Subbuteo or Scalextric lovers do it. Maybe decals could be used successfully here too.
I think it would be possible to use decals but very non trivial to get them aligned correctly! In the meantime, I have fitted a mechanical replacement keyboard in the A1200 and it’s amazing. New keycaps are also finally available now from A1200net, thankfully. I got my black set as well (which I planned to use on this A1200 but it ended up on my newly acquired clear A500 and looks awesome). :D
Has anyone tried the UV ray protect sprays on plastics after retrobriting? I was recommended to use UV archival spray on one of the websites, there are products like 303 aerospace protectant for plastics that I'm curious to see if it is effective at all, apparently it is often used on plastics in cars etc
It seems to me the liquid retrobright method is better just because it isn't as likely to cause marbling effects. I noticed Perifractic was able to work wonders in rehabilitating broken plastic parts using careful application of his soldering iron to the plastic to weld it back together. Maybe the problem with the DVI connector could be fixed with some wire clamps affixed to the screws. Like some wire that could clamp on the monitor plug. Not an expert here, but that is my $0.02US
I'd definitely recommend the liquid method for darker parts. The bright parts I did all turned out really nicely using the cream peroxide. Yeah, wire clamps might do the trick. Will try some workarounds for the problem. Thanks for the idea!
Hi Jan, Possibility using '303 Protectant' may delay yellowing post Retr0brite as Adrian Black has been doing. [Edit: Hmm this may be a moot point based on Winston Smith post above...]
A lot of people leave the RF shield off due to modification and say it doesn't emit much RF. What about the RF these days that can now be introduced into the amiga circuitry? Does, or can this matter?
Very unlikely, the frequencies at which the old systems operate are much lower than most of the RF that is used by modern devices. Plus, the shielding was mostly introduced to comply with FCC rules in the first place (so to shield the outside world).
Hi Jan, sorry if I am a bit late on this video (awesome one by the way, and I have one of those cases too, a black one). I would like to ask you a question about the Indivision AGA (which I have as well): is there a particular reason why you did not use the yellow ground wire provided with the card? Also, have you experienced any kind of glitches, or video interference at all (stripes while moving the windows and browsing the menus)? Things that go away after few minutes I mean? Thanks a lot for any answers you can give me! :-)
No worries, I'm late to answer, too... ;P As far as I know (if I remember correctly it says in the manual, too), the ground wire is only needed in certain conditions and for certain mainboard revs. If you don't get any weird effects without it, it is fine to leave it out. Doesn't hurt to connect it either. I have pristine video when connected via DVI but I had vertical stripes when I used a VGA monitor (through an DVI-VGA adapter plug). I couldn't resolve the issue but it doesn't matter much in my setup where it is constantly connected to a DVI monitor.
I have a modern white usb-keyboard (Acer-about 10 years old) and it has gone straight up orange- every key has another shade of orange though... going for dark stuff from now on
Do you have LED lights? They don't emit UV. I would hope using them would help minimize re-yellowing. I know I have them, but currently I don't have any old electronics. I plan on getting a C64 though soon.
Yes, I mostly have LED lights. I think yellowing is way more complex though. Search for "lightbrighting" and you will see what I mean. Actually UV seems to prevent/revert yellowing in some cases...
I was going to retrobrite several of my vintage machines, but think the retrobriting, as you have shown, does not last long...in fact, it may accelerate the process, for it took decades to yellow as it was. Perhaps retrobrite again followed with a clear coat that has UV protection? This I may try, or simply keep my precious machines natural. However, I have purchased 2 brand new A500 cases via Indiegogo that I should see next year. I also ordered the Amiga 1500 case that is currently going through a Kickstarter campaign...it may be the way to go, for the Kickstarter A1500 cases will work with A600, A500, A1200, etc...cheers.
That Wing Commander intro movie on the Amiga 1200 brought back memories of my husband attempting to play that game on the PC back in the day. At the time the PC (MS-DOS?) version was released, I remember very few home computers were capable of meeting its quite demanding (for the time) hardware requirements. (I suspect quite a few PC gamers at the time decided it was time to either have upgrades installed on their existing computers or just spring for a new computer -- my spouse included!)
Yes, I think Wing Commander was pretty demanding as it used Voxel instead of Vector graphics. Better suited for the Amiga‘s graphics hardware. Although it played really sluggish on unaccelerated Amigas (I played it on an A500 originally).
We had owned an A500 ourselves for some years, but I'm not sure if we still had it by the time Wing Commander was released. The Amiga was always more my spouse's computer than mine -- something I regret now, as the SSI "Gold Box" CRPGs I played so much on the C64, I've learned since (from watching TH-cam videos in recent years) looked and sounded even better on the Amiga.
So... Retrobright eats away, a tiny bit of plastic? I am thinking that 10 times retrobright and the plastic being too brittle anyway. Makes a good talking point for doing funky spray colours? Like an bright orange a500 or an dark grey a600.
How good for the plastic Retr0bright is, is still open for debate, but it doesn't eat away plastic. The hydrogen peroxide interacts with the bromides in the plastic, not with the ABS polymers.
I've recently seen pictures of surfaces from retrobrighted cases and they were indeed a little roughed up compared to before retrobrighting. It was a very minor effect and it might as well have something to do with cleaning and scrubbing the case before treatment. Before seeing the pics I would have thought the rerobrighting didn't affect the plastics structure at all. More investigation definitely needed.
@@JanBeta If people use a nylon sponge that are usually for scrubbing pots and pans, then it might take of some material. Indeed. I can see why retrobright might be good for really light yellowing cases. Though extremely yellow, like in the colour of dark piss (pardon my language), then to me, a spraypaint is the only way. Just choose some nice colour. Like those dusty kind of green or blue. The ones used on 78/84 computer's. They look like a kind of millitaery green or blue of some sort.
Amiga Rules ! Cool case. I haven't played with the amiga since the 2000s, except when recapping last year. I loved the A1200 the most of all the Commodore computers.
Definitely an amazing system! I was using my Amiga as late as 1997, when I finally succumbed to the PC world because of Microsoft Office being standard. And also things like DOOM and Day of the Tentacle. ;)
Case looks great! It's amazing that we can now buy new 1200 cases, drive LEDS and reproduction DIY motherboards. Now we just need new complete keyboards and you can almost build an A1200 completely from parts!
I'm actually surprised nobody has made a keyboard circuitboard for commodore products. There's so many custom keyboard PCBs on the market now, you'd think replacement boards for these would be a no brainer.
This fellow in Denmark produces a kit, in small quantities: www.breadbox64.com/mods-for-sale/mechboard64/ - I believe Individual Computers also wishes to make keyboards eventually (not sure where I saw/heard this; could have been an interview with Jens Schönfeld).
Well, the original moulds of the C128 were found along side with the C64 ones. However, it was reported that they were in lesser condition and I guess it also counts that the market for C64 new cases is much bigger, warranting the costs to refurbish them. Nevertheless, many people underestimate the C128 and think of it as a failed machine. While it had its problems with lack of native software, over 6 million of them were sold, which is far from a failure. There are quite a few C128 machines out there.
There’s a couple of distributors all over the world. I assumed there would be a list somewhere. Might well be most are sold out by now as it was a very limited number I think. :/
Did you have any issues with using ceramic capacitors rather than the electrolytic capacitors? If it works fine, might be a safer bet to prevent any more issues with leaks.
No issues at all. In fact, I talked to some far more professional folks than me about it in the meantime. None of them saw any potential problems with the ceramics electronically. The only thing that could go wrong is they get damaged (by heat or mechanically) during soldering them in and burn some time later as a result. These multi layer ceramics seem to be pretty fragile.
Cool! That is very interesting to know. ceramic caps are somewhat fragile yes, but once they're soldered in I don't think there's any danger of them getting physically damaged. Just have to be careful when soldering, not apply too much heat for too long and such.
If I do recaps (and it is not standard practice for me for Commodore hardware), I replace small elcos with small ceramic capacitors, because they are much more durable. We want the machines to last as long as possible, after all.
I never use the creme method. I've tried it many times, and I never get reliably even brightening. At worse it looks marbled. I tried humidifiers, plastic wrap, spray bottles, etc. Nothing worked. The best method is to just get yourself some cheap H2O2 and fill a bucket. Use some UV lamps or leave outside. Even if it's diluted, it works better than the creme. For small pieces like key caps, fill a zip lock bag with H2O2 and put the keys in. Again, leave in the sun or under UV lamp. Always do submersion method if you want even brightening.
those cases got the potential for making an amiga from scratch, or even for reusing spare parts. sadly in this part of the world there is only PC clones. greetings from argentina. great video.
Another great video :-).. end result is nice. :-) @2:00.. marbleling effect hard for me to spot on the 1080p video.. am I the only one? (the 2 keys looks a bit brighter though - like the scrl lock, F8, and left shift do)
Hi Jan! I love your videos. I have two C64 that are not working. They look fine, but no video output. Are you up for a challenge to fix them? Thanks for your videos.
I think the new case looks cool, Jan! I’ve never had an Amiga (though I had a VIC-20 and a Commodore 64C which I used for making music), but I’ve enjoyed your videos on all things Commodore. 😉 Have you done videos on the accelerator and add-on graphics cards you have in this Amiga? I haven’t seen them listed anywhere, if you have. Keep up the good work! 😊 Steve
right on bud. thats a nicely made case. especially like the signatures like on the innards of the A1000! you need to do something about those caps man.
I'm very late commenting again. :( The new case looks great (well, even though it's transparent). The case of my original A1200 is in excellent condition, thankfully, but the keys are every shade of yellow. I would love to get my hand on the new keycaps, as well, if and when they show up.
I hope they do it the same way they did with the cases and make at least some available to the general public instead of only selling to Kickstarter (or Indiegogo) supporters...
I have retrobrighted an A1200 case and some other stuff. Even I like the result of my retrobright I can't recommend it to anyone because it's necessary with a really good ventilation else it's a big risk to get skin problem.
How is retrobrighting risky for your skin other than if you touch the peroxide? Arguably it’s bad for your lungs but I don’t think there are any gases dangerous to skin?
@@JanBeta, hydroperoxide is good and bad. It depends on concentration. Less concentration great for spa, cleaning toilets, wounds etc. Higher concentration destroys tissue, bad for skin, explosive, great for bleaching paper etc. I become very dry in my skin because of the gas. But great for my lungs and resisting colds ^^
what would be good is if the dark keys also light up slightly too and could be turned off and on, then a custom mouse that matched :D realms of I MACS lol
that's unfortunate :/ 90% of the stuff i retrobrited still look nice, maybe that's because i use UV protector on my windows and i use LED lighting.. DAMN BROMINE! Streaks on plastic is a common issue, on keys and small objects i like to use liquid clear hair developer and that has not given me any problems. replacements cases are neat! Really looking foward to get one for my Amiga 500, Traslucent tangerine whould be my choice
Ich liebe diesen klaren Fall, und ich stimme zu, dass die schwarzen Tasten eine großartige Kombination dazu sein würden. Liebe deine Videos übrigens. (Sorry about my German I wanted to try it as I'm in the process of learning it)
Sehr schönes Gehäuse , ich finde du solltest ein RGB Light mit einbauen (Schaltbar) , das wäre bei vollkommener Dunkelheit , ein Krasser hinkucker . Schönes Video wie immer . Grüsse ausm Saarland :)
Oh, entschuldige! Ich schaue gerade so gut wie nie in meine Facebook-Nachrichten. Habe die Seite größtenteils als Spiegel meines Twitteraccounts eingerichtet. Hoffe, du kannst das Teil auch selbst gehrauchen.
Ja, kein Problem. Mein alter Tischbelagt hatte etwas gelitten. Da waren schon Schnitte drin und mein Sohn hatte sich dort auch schon verewigt. Ich hatte zwei bestellt, weil ich ja einmal geschrieben habe, dass es nicht schaden könnte, wenn Du Deine Schneidunterlage gegen eine ESD-Unterlage tauschen würdest. Ich habe zwei Werktische, die Matte muss ich nicht unter das Bett legen :-))) Wenn ich einmal wieder etwas Sinnvolles übrig habe, dann melde ich mich. Ich schreibe Dir in die Kommentare, wenn ich Dir eine FB Message geschrieben habe :-)
Ich persönlich finde das durchsichtige Gehäuse nicht gut. Aber die Geschmäcker sind ja zum Glück verschiedenen. Das Geld hätte ich mir gespart und es weiss lackieren lassen dir Brüche hätte ich vorher repariert Meine Amiga Flotte wartet auch auf Reparatur derzeit läuft nur in ein 500er ein 1200er ein CDTV und ein noch komplett originaler CD32 wo die Elkos mal gemacht werden müssen.
Ein bisschen spielt bei mir auch immer die Entscheidung mit, was ich in den Videos gut zeigen kann. Diese neuen Cases sind natürlich interessant für viele Leute. Würde ich keine Videos machen, hätte ich vermutlich eher das Originalgehäuse behalten.
Jan this is why I ordered an A1500 Checkmate case for my 1200. I ordered a black one, should be nice when done. Hope the Kickstarter goes through. kck.st/2MChwM4
I think, that nobody is every going to restore them. Who would buy an Amiga with a messy rubbed off layer of extra paint? What does the machine look like inside when the outside is already a mess? That's what I think when I see them. Very sad stories. ;)
Site with many photos of examples:
*Retr0Bright (or RetroBright) treated plastics re-yellowing even with minimal light exposure*
www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2013-01-15-retr0bright-only-temporary.htm
_From discussion and reflection a hypothesis has developed which seems to fit the evidence:_
_The original damage from light causes degraded or free bromides throughout the case from the fire retardants. Retr0Bright only takes these away from the surface layer. However these bromides can migrate fairly freely through the polymer. They don't need light to do this. Migration is probably accelerated in hot conditions. These pre-existing bromines from the original damage migrate to the top and within a few years the surface is yellowed again. The rate of the regression depends on the inital extent of yellowing (the more yellowed, the more bromides down deep), heat exposure and the nature/quality of the plastics._
_If this hypothesis is correct then a UV sealant will not protect the case. Or any sealant maybe. Unless pre-formed bromides from previous light damage can be stopped from migrating to the surface (and I don't know how you would do that) Retr0Bright is only ever going to be temporary._
Thanks for the information! I pinned your comment for future reference. :)
But what about the white, non yellowed parts of the case that were obscured, e.g. the inside of the case? That would suggest a sizable influence of UV light to all of this...
I think the above applies more to the re-yellowing after retrobright than to the initial yellowing.
The misinformation about what causes the yellowing and what retrobrite does is absolutely staggering! It's a good example of how quickly misinformation can spread, unbridled, on many topics.
One of the problems in this realm is that too many people seem to rely on their own just-so explanations for observed phenomena and then spread it in excitement, and then it becomes "true"; A good example of this is the claim that the yellowing is caused by the added brominated flame retardants, which is silly. it was a "just so" explanation provided with a bunch of chemical gibberish with the "formulation" of retrobrite, which is literally just hydrogen peroxide. The yellowing is a breakdown of the polymer and it will occur regardless. The butadiene chain of the polymer will oxidize when exposed to UV light. This causes yellowing because the breakdown results in Carbonyl radicals which form compounds which give the yellow discolouration. This has been known effectively since ABS plastic were first developed which is why plastics include UV Absorber, stabiliser, or blocker to slow down the reaction for consumer use of the plastic. "retrobrite" removes the yellowing because it is simply hydrogen peroxide, which is a strong chemical oxidizer. It catalyses oxidization of the carbonyl compounds into simpler, colourless compounds. The yellowing returns more aggressively after treatment with "retrobrite" because the oxidizer will also destroy most of the remaining UV stabiliser, absorber, or blocker compounds in the plastic.
It's also not unheard of for certain UV Stabilisers, blockers, and absorbers to themselves react with the UV light in a way that causes discolouration. That might seem to defeat the purpose, but they are added with the intent of preserving the strength of the polymer, rather than the cosmetic appearance. (The butadiene polymer breaking down is why older, yellowed plastics become brittle over time, since there are much shorter polymer chains)
Was thinking about going for the black case but the translucent looks pretty sweet too.
Not necessarily my go to choice of color: But it still amazes me that something like this exists: Qlways nice to see that these old puppies still receive some love :) Thanks, Jan!
Thanks! It’s a matter of taste obviously. I love the fact they made so many colors of the cases (at least for Kickstarter supporters).
I did like that transparent case, i also like the blue one.
If you spray satin clear laquer with uv blocker it prevents the yellowing from coming back but both, preventing oxygen reaching the plastic and preventing UV reaching the plastic.
$140 for $2 worth of plastic?
Looks fantastic that new case!!!
Thanks Chris! I so hope I can get some keycaps when they become available. :)
To use the dvi output cable standoffs you could get 2 small washers...
Have the same Problem with the VDI connector and the Floppy. Any solution now?
Might be able to find some thin washers that will work, so you can use the regular DVI anchors.
I backed the Amiga 500 case kick starter a year ago and I'm still waiting. I have no doubt they'll get it out eventually, but the wait is pretty rough...
Yeah, I'm still waiting on the key caps from the second campaign, too. I trust they are going to come through eventually.
do u know about the zx spectrum? when u boot it does it show a ltd. or ltd ???? thanks....
Great video. Maybe I will go for the back case one day.
Psst! One idea about the keys: You could paint them in black with a spray. And reproduce yourself the key labels with DECALS. It's a kind of special paper to transfer the labels to the keys.
Subbuteo or Scalextric lovers do it. Maybe decals could be used successfully here too.
I think it would be possible to use decals but very non trivial to get them aligned correctly! In the meantime, I have fitted a mechanical replacement keyboard in the A1200 and it’s amazing. New keycaps are also finally available now from A1200net, thankfully. I got my black set as well (which I planned to use on this A1200 but it ended up on my newly acquired clear A500 and looks awesome). :D
Has anyone tried the UV ray protect sprays on plastics after retrobriting? I was recommended to use UV archival spray on one of the websites, there are products like 303 aerospace protectant for plastics that I'm curious to see if it is effective at all, apparently it is often used on plastics in cars etc
It seems to me the liquid retrobright method is better just because it isn't as likely to cause marbling effects. I noticed Perifractic was able to work wonders in rehabilitating broken plastic parts using careful application of his soldering iron to the plastic to weld it back together.
Maybe the problem with the DVI connector could be fixed with some wire clamps affixed to the screws. Like some wire that could clamp on the monitor plug. Not an expert here, but that is my $0.02US
I'd definitely recommend the liquid method for darker parts. The bright parts I did all turned out really nicely using the cream peroxide.
Yeah, wire clamps might do the trick. Will try some workarounds for the problem. Thanks for the idea!
try coating it with Meguiar's G17804 after retrobrite and see if it helps. the computers need a UV protective coating after retrobrite.
my c128 was never exposed to UV yet it got yellowing on it. the other donated c128 has no yellowing at all.
Just pinned a comment with some research results that came to the conclusion it’s not only UV that causes the yellowing.
You forgot the A1200 Badge :) Awesome video! I am half tempted to treat my A1200 to a new set of Key Caps and a replacement case from these guys.
I’ll choose a new badge soon. I wanted to keep the original one on the original case. ;)
Hi Jan, Possibility using '303 Protectant' may delay yellowing post Retr0brite as Adrian Black has been doing. [Edit: Hmm this may be a moot point based on Winston Smith post above...]
A lot of people leave the RF shield off due to modification and say it doesn't emit much RF. What about the RF these days that can now be introduced into the amiga circuitry? Does, or can this matter?
Very unlikely, the frequencies at which the old systems operate are much lower than most of the RF that is used by modern devices. Plus, the shielding was mostly introduced to comply with FCC rules in the first place (so to shield the outside world).
@@JanBeta Thanks for the explanation Jan. I was wondering about that for a while now.
Hi Jan, sorry if I am a bit late on this video (awesome one by the way, and I have one of those cases too, a black one).
I would like to ask you a question about the Indivision AGA (which I have as well): is there a particular reason why you did not use the yellow ground wire provided with the card?
Also, have you experienced any kind of glitches, or video interference at all (stripes while moving the windows and browsing the menus)? Things that go away after few minutes I mean?
Thanks a lot for any answers you can give me! :-)
No worries, I'm late to answer, too... ;P
As far as I know (if I remember correctly it says in the manual, too), the ground wire is only needed in certain conditions and for certain mainboard revs. If you don't get any weird effects without it, it is fine to leave it out. Doesn't hurt to connect it either.
I have pristine video when connected via DVI but I had vertical stripes when I used a VGA monitor (through an DVI-VGA adapter plug). I couldn't resolve the issue but it doesn't matter much in my setup where it is constantly connected to a DVI monitor.
Just wanted to say a translucent case with dark translucent keys sounds totally awesome.
I have a modern white usb-keyboard (Acer-about 10 years old) and it has gone straight up orange- every key has another shade of orange though... going for dark stuff from now on
OMG Translucent smokey keycaps will be amazing. I also liked the iMacs. Orange, Pink and Cyan colors were nice too.
Definitely! I hope I can get them when they become available.
Looks awesome Jan, bit worrying that you had a lot of fiddling to get the disk drive to fit but glad you sorted it :)
Great case and good job!
Jan, which ESD protection set you work?
Cheers
Do you have LED lights? They don't emit UV. I would hope using them would help minimize re-yellowing. I know I have them, but currently I don't have any old electronics. I plan on getting a C64 though soon.
Yes, I mostly have LED lights. I think yellowing is way more complex though. Search for "lightbrighting" and you will see what I mean. Actually UV seems to prevent/revert yellowing in some cases...
How about anti-UV film on windows glass? Does it save from yellowing ABS-plastic?
I just pinned a comment with some info on that. It seems not to prevent the yellowing.
only retrobright things are rather extreme in the yellowing. I don't mind an old machine looking a bit old.
Is it PC or Tritan?
Clever new case! By some miracle my A1200 case never changed colors - it looks the same as when I got it. My A500 case, though, looks terrible!
I was going to retrobrite several of my vintage machines, but think the retrobriting, as you have shown, does not last long...in fact, it may accelerate the process, for it took decades to yellow as it was. Perhaps retrobrite again followed with a clear coat that has UV protection? This I may try, or simply keep my precious machines natural. However, I have purchased 2 brand new A500 cases via Indiegogo that I should see next year. I also ordered the Amiga 1500 case that is currently going through a Kickstarter campaign...it may be the way to go, for the Kickstarter A1500 cases will work with A600, A500, A1200, etc...cheers.
That Wing Commander intro movie on the Amiga 1200 brought back memories of my husband attempting to play that game on the PC back in the day. At the time the PC (MS-DOS?) version was released, I remember very few home computers were capable of meeting its quite demanding (for the time) hardware requirements. (I suspect quite a few PC gamers at the time decided it was time to either have upgrades installed on their existing computers or just spring for a new computer -- my spouse included!)
Yes, I think Wing Commander was pretty demanding as it used Voxel instead of Vector graphics. Better suited for the Amiga‘s graphics hardware. Although it played really sluggish on unaccelerated Amigas (I played it on an A500 originally).
We had owned an A500 ourselves for some years, but I'm not sure if we still had it by the time Wing Commander was released. The Amiga was always more my spouse's computer than mine -- something I regret now, as the SSI "Gold Box" CRPGs I played so much on the C64, I've learned since (from watching TH-cam videos in recent years) looked and sounded even better on the Amiga.
So... Retrobright eats away, a tiny bit of plastic? I am thinking that 10 times retrobright and the plastic being too brittle anyway. Makes a good talking point for doing funky spray colours? Like an bright orange a500 or an dark grey a600.
How good for the plastic Retr0bright is, is still open for debate, but it doesn't eat away plastic. The hydrogen peroxide interacts with the bromides in the plastic, not with the ABS polymers.
@@danielmantione Just think I heard Jan talk about tiny bit being eaten away.
I've recently seen pictures of surfaces from retrobrighted cases and they were indeed a little roughed up compared to before retrobrighting. It was a very minor effect and it might as well have something to do with cleaning and scrubbing the case before treatment. Before seeing the pics I would have thought the rerobrighting didn't affect the plastics structure at all. More investigation definitely needed.
@@JanBeta If people use a nylon sponge that are usually for scrubbing pots and pans, then it might take of some material. Indeed. I can see why retrobright might be good for really light yellowing cases. Though extremely yellow, like in the colour of dark piss (pardon my language), then to me, a spraypaint is the only way. Just choose some nice colour. Like those dusty kind of green or blue. The ones used on 78/84 computer's. They look like a kind of millitaery green or blue of some sort.
Amiga Rules ! Cool case. I haven't played with the amiga since the 2000s, except when recapping last year. I loved the A1200 the most of all the Commodore computers.
Definitely an amazing system! I was using my Amiga as late as 1997, when I finally succumbed to the PC world because of Microsoft Office being standard. And also things like DOOM and Day of the Tentacle. ;)
Case looks great! It's amazing that we can now buy new 1200 cases, drive LEDS and reproduction DIY motherboards. Now we just need new complete keyboards and you can almost build an A1200 completely from parts!
Yeah I'm really looking forward to icomp.de's 'A1200 Reloaded'.
I'm actually surprised nobody has made a keyboard circuitboard for commodore products. There's so many custom keyboard PCBs on the market now, you'd think replacement boards for these would be a no brainer.
This fellow in Denmark produces a kit, in small quantities: www.breadbox64.com/mods-for-sale/mechboard64/ - I believe Individual Computers also wishes to make keyboards eventually (not sure where I saw/heard this; could have been an interview with Jens Schönfeld).
That's fantastic then!
Yeah, it is absolutely amazing! Who would have thought (hoped for) this to happen back in the 90s?
I'd replace the case and keys on my C128 to keep it from yellowing... But I heard the molds went missing so they can't reproduce the C128 case :(
I think the A1200 cases were recreated almost from scratch, too. There may be hope for the C128!
Well, the original moulds of the C128 were found along side with the C64 ones. However, it was reported that they were in lesser condition and I guess it also counts that the market for C64 new cases is much bigger, warranting the costs to refurbish them.
Nevertheless, many people underestimate the C128 and think of it as a failed machine. While it had its problems with lack of native software, over 6 million of them were sold, which is far from a failure. There are quite a few C128 machines out there.
Where did you buy the case? There are none on A1200.net's webshop, their distributors also don't have the new cases... Confusing.
discoHR
discoHR: Second that! I searched too. Followed the supplier links, looked around the EU ones too. No Cases, no joy.
It seems it's just impossible to buy these cases. Sell out instantly.
www.amigaonthelake.com still has plenty in stock, and they ship world wide.
£110 To buy and ship to UK!
There’s a couple of distributors all over the world. I assumed there would be a list somewhere. Might well be most are sold out by now as it was a very limited number I think. :/
Did you have any issues with using ceramic capacitors rather than the electrolytic capacitors? If it works fine, might be a safer bet to prevent any more issues with leaks.
No issues at all. In fact, I talked to some far more professional folks than me about it in the meantime. None of them saw any potential problems with the ceramics electronically. The only thing that could go wrong is they get damaged (by heat or mechanically) during soldering them in and burn some time later as a result. These multi layer ceramics seem to be pretty fragile.
Cool! That is very interesting to know. ceramic caps are somewhat fragile yes, but once they're soldered in I don't think there's any danger of them getting physically damaged. Just have to be careful when soldering, not apply too much heat for too long and such.
If I do recaps (and it is not standard practice for me for Commodore hardware), I replace small elcos with small ceramic capacitors, because they are much more durable. We want the machines to last as long as possible, after all.
I never use the creme method. I've tried it many times, and I never get reliably even brightening. At worse it looks marbled. I tried humidifiers, plastic wrap, spray bottles, etc. Nothing worked.
The best method is to just get yourself some cheap H2O2 and fill a bucket. Use some UV lamps or leave outside. Even if it's diluted, it works better than the creme. For small pieces like key caps, fill a zip lock bag with H2O2 and put the keys in. Again, leave in the sun or under UV lamp.
Always do submersion method if you want even brightening.
An Amiga day today :D have you seen the Checkmate Amiga/PC compatible case on Kickstarter? Based on the Amiga 3000
Yes, I’m watching that pretty closely. It’s a very interesting idea. And amazing that stuff like that happens in 2018!
I have this case, it come with some white paper-like stickers and no information as to what they're for.. Does anyone have any ideas? LUL
those cases got the potential for making an amiga from scratch, or even for reusing spare parts. sadly in this part of the world there is only PC clones. greetings from argentina. great video.
Great video .. I really wanted to see one of those cases in action
Thanks! That’s why I got one of those in the first place.
Another great video :-).. end result is nice. :-)
@2:00.. marbleling effect hard for me to spot on the 1080p video.. am I the only one? (the 2 keys looks a bit brighter though - like the scrl lock, F8, and left shift do)
8:49 I didn't know AmigaKit made 1200 cases! Cool!
Oh, they are produced by A1200.net but sold through various Amiga resellers.
I would have added color to the word AMIGA to make it stand out better on the clear case
Hi Jan! I love your videos. I have two C64 that are not working. They look fine, but no video output. Are you up for a challenge to fix them? Thanks for your videos.
Cases no longer available?
It was a very limited number so it might very well be they sold out already. I think they are planning on doing another run but who knows when... :/
Please see our reply to DiscoHR.
Some cases are still available from AmigaOnTheLake, AmigaKit and Alinea Computer.
Thanks.
Love the case Jan 😁 great vlog once again .....Kim.......
Thanks Kim! Hope I can get hold of some matching keycaps soon.
you can use a standard mouse on an Amiga?
I‘m using a TOM2 USB adapter. Work very well for various old systems and with many USB mouses. :)
cool choice on the case!
I think the new case looks cool, Jan! I’ve never had an Amiga (though I had a VIC-20 and a Commodore 64C which I used for making music), but I’ve enjoyed your videos on all things Commodore. 😉
Have you done videos on the accelerator and add-on graphics cards you have in this Amiga? I haven’t seen them listed anywhere, if you have.
Keep up the good work! 😊
Steve
Get black keys with it, it will look amazing.
My A500/500+ retrobrighted a year ago also yellowed by now. Keys not so much but the cases...
That’s the plan. Although I saw on the website that translucent keys will look almost black because the plastic beneath is black. :)
Hi Jan,
Thank you for this awesome review ;)
Cheers
Thank YOU for making these cases become a reality. :D
right on bud. thats a nicely made case. especially like the signatures like on the innards of the A1000! you need to do something about those caps man.
I was kind of prepared to hate on the translucent case, but turns out it looks rad!
I hope it will look even better with matching keys. :)
@@JanBeta yeah the yellowed keys and the case are a bit of a juxtaposition. Black keys would also look nice I reckon.
Awsome! I realy agree with that it had looked realy good with dark transparent buttons too.
Very Cool Jan. Can't wait to see it with the new keys. Was looking at the A500 cases but can't afford it :)
Yeah, that stuff‘s expensive unfortunately. :(
First time use of „thinker tinker „
Thats one amazing machine right there, wish i had one like it.
I'm very late commenting again. :( The new case looks great (well, even though it's transparent). The case of my original A1200 is in excellent condition, thankfully, but the keys are every shade of yellow. I would love to get my hand on the new keycaps, as well, if and when they show up.
I hope they do it the same way they did with the cases and make at least some available to the general public instead of only selling to Kickstarter (or Indiegogo) supporters...
I have retrobrighted an A1200 case and some other stuff. Even I like the result of my retrobright I can't recommend it to anyone because it's necessary with a really good ventilation else it's a big risk to get skin problem.
How is retrobrighting risky for your skin other than if you touch the peroxide? Arguably it’s bad for your lungs but I don’t think there are any gases dangerous to skin?
@@JanBeta, hydroperoxide is good and bad. It depends on concentration. Less concentration great for spa, cleaning toilets, wounds etc. Higher concentration destroys tissue, bad for skin, explosive, great for bleaching paper etc.
I become very dry in my skin because of the gas. But great for my lungs and resisting colds ^^
what would be good is if the dark keys also light up slightly too and could be turned off and on, then a custom mouse that matched :D realms of I MACS lol
Haha, that would be amazing! :)
Awesome as always, realy enjoyed this video :)
Thank you! :)
Nobody is going to disagree with your color choice because you didn't choose any color!
lol
You don't need UV light for retrobrite. You only need heat. UV is a myth! The original case looked great
that's unfortunate :/
90% of the stuff i retrobrited still look nice, maybe that's because i use UV protector on my windows and i use LED lighting..
DAMN BROMINE!
Streaks on plastic is a common issue, on keys and small objects i like to use liquid clear hair developer and that has not given me any problems.
replacements cases are neat! Really looking foward to get one for my Amiga 500, Traslucent tangerine whould be my choice
Ich liebe diesen klaren Fall, und ich stimme zu, dass die schwarzen Tasten eine großartige Kombination dazu sein würden. Liebe deine Videos übrigens. (Sorry about my German I wanted to try it as I'm in the process of learning it)
Very good German indeed! Ich hoffe, ich kann die Tasten bekommen, sobald sie frei erhältlich sind. :)
@@JanBeta Danke, ich kann nicht auf den nächsten warten.
Like ! coffee and Jan Beta ! time for lunch! enjoy!
Hope you enjoyed both. :)
Not sure if i prefer the “lips” or the “sun” 😃
Now sou just Need to ad some RGB Lighting to your transparent Case to makes the 1200 makes Shine ja night 😁
Maybe I'll add something like that in the future. Would be nice to have the keys light up at least. ;)
Twelve Hundred of Pure Awesomeness! #AMIGAAA :)
Great, as you said address the keys because they don’t look smart on this case
Absolutely! I hope I can get some when they make them available.
When I was ignorant I thought the yellowing of old computers was due to people smoking back in the day for some reason.
I actually thought the same thing back in the day (there were a lot more people smoking, too). Only learned about the real cause much later.
Wusste garnicht, dass es Luftkämpfe bei Wing Commander gab? War doch alles im Weltraum :D
That clear case looks to me like it is begging for some LED's to shine through it.
Sehr schönes Gehäuse , ich finde du solltest ein RGB Light mit einbauen (Schaltbar) , das wäre bei vollkommener Dunkelheit , ein Krasser hinkucker .
Schönes Video wie immer .
Grüsse ausm Saarland :)
Vielen Dank! Wäre eine Überlegung wert. Ich denke gerade mehr in Richtung beleuchtete Tasten... ;)
21:04 Only the man who likes to live dangerously leaves joysticks on the chair.
Haha, or the man who constantly swaps joysticks and has no room for storing them. ;) At least I didn't leave it on the floor this time...
The old case looked better, it had soul. The new one is just... a replacement.
Deinen Indivision musst du aber wohl noch mal richtig konfigurieren. Dann hast du auch Vollbild.
Ich nutze gerade parallel den CRT Monitor und den Flachbildschirm am Amiga. Die Einstellung ist im Moment eher auf die Röhre angepasst. ;)
Oh, Du hast einen neuen Tischbelag. Ich hatte Dir via FB eine als Spende angeboten... na, denn mache ich sie auf meinen Tisch :-)
Oh, entschuldige! Ich schaue gerade so gut wie nie in meine Facebook-Nachrichten. Habe die Seite größtenteils als Spiegel meines Twitteraccounts eingerichtet. Hoffe, du kannst das Teil auch selbst gehrauchen.
Ja, kein Problem. Mein alter Tischbelagt hatte etwas gelitten. Da waren schon Schnitte drin und mein Sohn hatte sich dort auch schon verewigt. Ich hatte zwei bestellt, weil ich ja einmal geschrieben habe, dass es nicht schaden könnte, wenn Du Deine Schneidunterlage gegen eine ESD-Unterlage tauschen würdest. Ich habe zwei Werktische, die Matte muss ich nicht unter das Bett legen :-))) Wenn ich einmal wieder etwas Sinnvolles übrig habe, dann melde ich mich. Ich schreibe Dir in die Kommentare, wenn ich Dir eine FB Message geschrieben habe :-)
Ich persönlich finde das durchsichtige Gehäuse nicht gut.
Aber die Geschmäcker sind ja zum Glück verschiedenen.
Das Geld hätte ich mir gespart und es weiss lackieren lassen dir Brüche hätte ich vorher repariert
Meine Amiga Flotte wartet auch auf Reparatur derzeit läuft nur in ein 500er ein 1200er ein CDTV und ein noch komplett originaler CD32 wo die Elkos mal gemacht werden müssen.
Ein bisschen spielt bei mir auch immer die Entscheidung mit, was ich in den Videos gut zeigen kann. Diese neuen Cases sind natürlich interessant für viele Leute. Würde ich keine Videos machen, hätte ich vermutlich eher das Originalgehäuse behalten.
Signed inside "just like the original... macintoshes are"
What the hell man? Just like the original Amiga is!
Jan this is why I ordered an A1500 Checkmate case for my 1200. I ordered a black one, should be nice when done. Hope the Kickstarter goes through. kck.st/2MChwM4
Very bad taste, but it's better to buy a new case, than destroying an original one. ;) Remember the black and golden sprayed ones...
Yeah, there’s a lot of bad paint jobs out there for sure. :/
I think, that nobody is every going to restore them. Who would buy an Amiga with a messy rubbed off layer of extra paint? What does the machine look like inside when the outside is already a mess? That's what I think when I see them. Very sad stories. ;)
Die "Farbe" ist fürchterlich. Warum?^^
Get the old one dip wrapped after fixing the crack it will never yellow again...
I might still do that. I got the new case mostly out of interest (also to show other interested people) in the first place.
By the way it isn't that expensive to have this made in Canada.
Amiga made for prison use?
"Made in China" - don't expect it to last too long so!
Made in China like whatever device you are typing this on.
@@JanBeta ha ha salty! Made in Germany fwiw
du brauchst noch transparente tasten 🤣🤣
waste of money.
:-(
Just original.
Jan you must be original
like commodore, on yours life .
not a replican man
It’s a matter of taste I guess. Usually I’m keeping stuff original, too.
I don't like it,looks like some strange ice keyboard. And yes i do have one A1200 myself..I like my old machines to look old.
It’s a matter of taste obviously. Usually I prefer the original look, too.