This Is NOT Karate
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ธ.ค. 2020
- Karate kicks are effective. But high kicks are not found in Okinawa - the birthplace of Karate. For example, there's not a single traditional kata that contains mawashi geri (roundhouse kick). Yet it's used constantly in modern Karate - especially kumite. High kicks are actually the top scoring sparring techniques. But the old Karate pioneers, i.e. Gichin Funakoshi, Motobu Choki, Chojun Miyagi and Mabuni Kenwa never taught such techniques. So where did these flashy kicks come from? And why did they become so popular in modern Karate? The answer might shock you...
☯️ BIO: Jesse Enkamp a.k.a The Karate Nerd™ is a #1 Amazon Best-Selling Author, National Team Athlete, Keynote Speaker, Entrepreneur, Carrot Cake Lover & Founder of Seishin International - The World’s Leading Karate Lifestyle Brand.
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WARNING: The advice and movements shown in this video are for informational and educational purposes only. Consult a health professional before engaging in any exercise or martial arts program.
Music credit: Scott Buckley - released under CC-BY 4.0 - www.scottbucjkley.com.au
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Bonjour Monsieur Jesse, congratulations! You’ve just opened a very important chapter in the martial arts world....the influence of savate boxe française. It is truly a pearl of the martial arts ocean.
After reading all, yes all of the comments, I must say that the most repeated question/comment was about how/if savate boxe française’s kicks were influenced by asian martial arts...by sailors coming back from Asia etc.. This video is a huge step forward to destroy this unfortunate myth. Merci!
Yes a myth and untrue.
Unfortunately this is a myth started January 8, 1965 in “Le Bulletin de liaison de la boxe française” (A monthly news letter from the National Comity of boxe française) written by le Compte Pierre Baruzy (A very important figure in savate boxe française’s history)
To be clear to all readers, there is no evidence whatsoever of asian martial arts influencing savate. Savate and it’s kicks are home grown and developed around the French Revolution in 1789. English boxing was added to savate kicks in 1830-32 by Professeur Charles Lecour after studying English boxing.
Sources :
HISTOIRE DE LA SAVATE, DU CHAUSSON ET DE LA BOXE FRANÇAISE (1797-1978)
By JEAN-FRANÇOIS LOUDCHER.
And,
SAVATE-CANNE-BÂTON au fil des siècles. La véritable histoire de la boxe française.
By Pierre Tarravello and Luc Cerutti.
Two of the most respected books and authorities on savate boxe française’s history.
Mr. Baruzy was trying to in a “marketing way” (not realizing the damage being done) connect savate boxe française to asian martial arts, to help revive and popularize it after it almost disappeared due to the two world wars, killing and injuring most of the professors and practitioners of that time. Because he was seeing how popular asian martial were becoming, he created this hypothesis based on one single painting from 1857 of a French sailor on a boat kicking a opponent. From this point on the myth spread and did more damage than anything to it’s authentic history.
This history and important information can be known through French books from France. I own most of them, and I have been teaching savate boxe française for 23 years.
I really enjoyed your video and greatly appreciate your dedication, honesty and courage! Keep spreading the facts mon ami and keep those savate kicks sharp! 🥊😉👞
Excellent! I truly appreciate your insightful comment. Much appreciated. Thanks for supporting my work! 🙏
I was born in France and as a young child was taught basic kicks by a Grandparent who lived in the Landes. Immigrating to Australia at age 7 before Bruce Lee was known I was told that only girls and the French kick in fights! Kicking has always been a part of fighting in France. Knights in armor used kicks to unbalance their opponents and the sword pommel was used beat them senseless.
@@KARATEbyJesse and Marcel - you should do a study of the subject together. Oh and Jesse, I believe your entrance to Japan, specially to Okinawa is banned for good now, what a spoiler you are. Looking for a more interesting videos !
Thank you for the interesting answer. I have red that some law prohibiting to hit someone to head was influencing savate ? So you were not punished so hard when you said "I just kicked the man not hit.." or is this one of the myths ? But sometimes the Law effects like some law in UK ( or US ) hardened the punishments for pub fights. Then the solution was "come out and let´s see"....so the fights shifted to streets...
@@rikunevalainen8154 Mariners were prohibited from fighting using knives and fists and as sailors / marines are always improvising they started using their feet and would say to an Officer "mais mon Capitaine, I knocked him out with my foot!". In Paris in the late 18th and early 19th century Savate was akin to dirty street fighting. Gouging, biting, head butts, grappling, dirty tricks were all included. Francois Vidocq, France's first undercover cop, a former criminal, bought savate to the police force which used it against the gangs of Paris.
I always wondered how and when high flashy Kicks were introduced to Karate, because they are not to be found in Kata.. Finally, I found the answers.. Nice one.
Does the Mae Tobi Geri in the kata Kosokun Shiho (Sho Kosokun, Koskun Shiho) count as high flashy kick?
@@Ashtarot77 no
@@Ashtarot77 it is not that flashy
@@ydgames4291 It is if you add a bit of flair and dramatics to it 😂 If you trained with me you'd be laughing your socks off. Ah, I do miss those days 🙂
@@Ashtarot77 fair
Just goes to show that "traditional karate" is a misnomer and it has been constantly evolving over the years.
Tradition is not about preserving ashes, but about keeping the flame lit! 🔥
Exactly. Karate alone is almost as varied as MMA when you follow all of the different branches, yet everyone seems to have their own stereotypical ideas about the art. I go to a sparring heavy Superfoot school and people who don't know what any of that means give me odd looks when I tell them I do Karate, because they seem to think it is for children or something.
@@teemun3979 Are you related to Tom Muncy co-founder of the Dragon Society?
@@mikeaddison-saipe5820 Possibly, but unlikely. It is much more likely if he has family from southern West Virginia. Of course, most of my family was poor as coaldirt too, so many couldn't afford to get into any martial arts besides boxing and wrestling.
@@teemun3979
So much crossover, too. When you condense everything, you find that the overwhelmingly most effective techniques, consist of about half a dozen moves that look almost identical in just about every martial art, throughout history.
I love that you don't seem to hold martial arts as something sacred or try to pretend that any one martial art or period in martial arts is somehow perfect. Instead you let your passion and enthusiasm be balanced by the humility of a true student. The result are some truly excellent and educational videos. Thank you!
I was at the bar in the International Airport when a small Chinese guy comes in, stands next to me, and starts drinking a beer. I asked him, "Do you know any of those martial arts, like Kung-Fu, or Karate?" He says "No, why in the hell would you ask? Is it because I am Chinese?"
"No", I said, "It's because you're drinking my beer, you little fucker."
This small Chinese guy never learnt any martial art and he doesn't need to. He has a shot gun in his pocket.
@@kwokholuk8723 That has to be one big pocket
Dang he's sneaky
He knows GUN FU
Haha, you earned another like with this amazing joke.
Your video was shared on a Taiwanese martial arts Facebook group!
Cool
FIGHT COMMENTARY BREAKDOWNSSS
-10,000 social credit
-9999999999999 social credits 😂
Another factor to consider is that when Savate was codified there were significant legal penalties in France for hitting someone with a closed fist; these did not apply if you kicked someone or hit them with an open hand. Thus apparently Savate originally trained kicks and open hand strikes.
So it was similar to olympic Taekwondo?
@@christophegarcia-salvador8683 think pancrease, but TKD is an outgrowth of Shotokan, so they're related.
I've never in my life met a non-martial artist who hasn't at least heard of Karate. I wish I could say the same for Savate. It's unfortunate. ☹
As a huge comic book fan I know about savate because of one of captain America’s foes “Batroc the Leaper”
A few years ago I had to argue with a guy who was convince that "Savate was from Ukraine", apparently because some Ukrainian instructor told him so...
@@gematriot And you didn't smack him?!
I've known of Savate since I was a kid from a Tintin book.
Yes I was shocked by this history 😳
There was actually two original forms of Savate. The first was Savate Parisien which started in the slums and was described by Dumas. The wooden clogs (sabot) used gave it its name. It was a form of street fighting which used low kicks, had a low guard, incorporated grappling (lutte Parisien). The second was Chausson de Marseilles which was used by sailors and had higher and more elegant kicks. The French gentry took up both with the sword ban and gentrified it. Masters later codified it. With the rising popularity of English Boxing, Boxe Francaise-Savate was born. Canne, Baton and Street Defense are all aspects of Savate. Its a complete system.
Very good! You done your homework! :)
What do you think - is it a myth thet the Marseille style had influx from Muay Thai because the sailors saw that during their trips to Asia?
@@elliotvernon7971 I never heard that version, but it doesn't seem particularly credible either.
@@elliotvernon7971 OK, I could believe THAT. It is a bit like you see something and try to reverse engineer back to where it came from. That has happened in other fields.
This is also not far from a sailor having seen it, not having had the opportunity to learn it, but tries on his own to figure out if that is a good way of fighting.
Such an important video. Thank you for sharing, Jesse Sensei! 👍🏼
My pleasure!
American Savat! :)
It was a great history lesson in martial arts. As a four-year practitioner of martial arts I can say truly enjoyed your history lesson
I had heard that Gichin Funakoshi's son introducted a lot of kicking techniques to karate but I never heard about him being inspired by savate. Mind blown!
Would have made it difficult to "sell" them at the time.
That's because he was not being inspired by savate.
@@user-wi2kp6xo5l he was.
He inspered by TAEKION to
What about Northern Styles Kung fu?
I had been practicing a traditional martial art for 2 decades that had been heavily influenced by Karate. I switched to savate boxe française a few years ago and I felt at home. The kicking techniques were so similar that I first thought the practitioners came from TKD or Karate. I really enjoyed it and it enhanced my distance management. Thanks to you it all makes sense now!!! It was the missing link to my understanding of striking martial arts. Much appreciation from a MA nerd 🤓
You just keep providing so much solid history to Karate that I'd never known throughout my years in training. I'm a bit humbled and a lot thankful for your vids, Jesse.
I often had thoughts, that Karate stances appeared similar to old sword fighting stances. Kind of like two aristocrats meeting for a dual at dawn.
That's it!
Like in iai-jutsu.
And Nakayama (influential in early JKA) was a fencer.
Thats explains ikken hisatsu
@@gbormann71 Yes! Absolutely yes!
correct but the reason for that is not necessary duel or aristocracy, the reason is that karate was NOT FOR one to one bare hand combat, it was for tools used as weapons or weapons derived from tools and bare hand surely is the basic of karate but AS A REACTION to tools. This is why it looks like fencing: it is to counter attack a fence in a form of a tool used as weapon. Karate is plenty of light weapon itself.
What a video Jesse! You're really taking your videos to the next level. Inspiring :)
Glad you think so Rokas! Hope all is well. :)
@@KARATEbyJesse I as a krav maga practioner belive that traditional okinawan karate has more in common with krava maga than with sports karate or modern shotokan karate.
@@berserk9085 just a little bit, real karate is revolves more around fancing with/against tools used as weapons; krav maga is more close quarter.
im subscribed to your channel
Very fun video. I do enjoy your content ! A few interesting/ important considerations.
1) France had a fair amount of contact with Thailand
2) France also had considerable connection with other Asian countries (China, Korea etc.).
The above mentioned regions also having ample high kicks. Keeping in mind that Korea had martial arts before Tae Keon Do. Also, the group practice (line drills, military group style training) are huge in Chinese martial arts as well.
So it is also possible/likely that French/savate as well as Japan had additional influences on their kicking and training methods as well.
As a note. Fujian martial arts (the close relative of Okinawa martial arts) did focus more on low kicks. (I believe that old style savate focused in on low kicks as well)
Just another prove that all cultures have always been intertwined. There is no such thing as ethnic borders.
No, all Savate movements are designed around shoes, Thailand goes barefoot and other Asian countries do not have hard shoes in martial arts. Savate developed in the French streets and in the army, in the material conditions of the French of the time. Perhaps Asian cultures influenced the Chausson Marseillais (combat sport of French sailors, now extinct), but the Savate already knew kicks before being influenced by that. It is indeed the meeting between the combative mentality of the people of the French streets and the mentality of the French army which created the savate
@BunnyMasterYT For 2 things to be intertwined they must be distinct.
"Without tradition, art is like a flock without a shepherd; without innovation it is a corpse."
Winston Churchill
Boxe Française Savate is one of my favorite styles, and reading books and studying Panther Production videos from the late Professor Salem Assli influenced my kicking as a karateka. This part of karate history I did not know about! Thank you Jesse Sensei!
Thank you Jesse, for re-establishing the Savate in the right chronologic timeline.
The French military advisors were actually in Japan even before the end of the Franco-Prussian war, the actual « real » Last Samurai, wasn’t an American officer (and certainly not Tom Cruise) but the French officer Jules Brunet in 1867/68, and it is often overlooked that Savate, also had a major influence on the southeast Asian types of boxing and martial arts such as Muai Thai (among others).
Since the victory of France over China in the 4 years war of 1881/1885, France took « possession » of the Chinese Tonkin in the north of Vietnam as a new « protectorat » (a polite way to say colony), the rest of the regions, including Cambodia, Laos, and Annam (Vietnam), were already under the French influence, and stayed part of the French colonial Empire until early 1950’s.
At that time, the Savate was an academic sport, meaning it was taught in school, and attending school being mandatory on the French territories since 1883, several generations of kids learned the basics of the French kickboxing, this is how, plenty of obscure traditional martial arts that were sometimes, only knew by a couple of elders and families in some away villages or provinces, went into contact with the sportive concept of the Western European boxing styles (as Savate is also using most of the English boxing fists moves), and did the transition from isolated schools to actual popular sports.
However, colonization being for us and the former colonized population, a very sensitive and touchy topic (equivalent to the topic of slavery in the US for example), and each culture considering is art of fighting with a lot of national pride, the western influence on those art, is most of the time overlooked or voluntary forgotten.
Thanks for your thoughtful comment! Much appreciated.
On point and in agreement! "Voluntarily forgotten" or even outright denied is definitely in existence.
By the way, love the history. Jules Brunet was an important figure, fighting for The Ezo Republic and it's interesting how the Meiji government wanted him extradited back to Japan for punishment for aiding the rebel samurai (who for anyone else reading this and might not be aware, did not wear full Sengoku period armor like in that fun, but anachronistic movie from director Ed Zwick and starring Tom Cruise. Those samurai often wore European military uniforms and had no qualms about using guns!)
It perhaps influenced modern muay Thai too
@@Janovial it definitely did, yet, Full Contact (or as we called it in the 80/90’s the « American Boxing ») was actually much more influential over modern Muay Thai as they were more interactions and fights between those two styles… Alas, French Savate isn’t that popular anymore, especially if you compare to how successful and popular it was a century ago, and nowadays, even in France it’s easier to find a class of taekwondo or Kick-boxing (for exemple) than a class of Savate.
"The former colonized populations". Awkward. Very awkward. You're going to need to find a better way of expressing that.
Old savate have also a lot of dangerous street moove like attack on the eyes, palm strike on the ear etc... Now this part is teach in savate defense. It have also a system of grappling with throw and submission named lutte Parisienne.
There Is Also a style of Marsiglia's savate, right?
Your willingness to provide historical insight is what makes your channel unique.
What a fun and respectful video. You have a knack for somehow combining the two and bringing both humility and a sense of humor to the subject on which you're an obvious authority.
Jesse Sensi on his way to construct karate timeline, Inch by inch,in a great detail 🔥epic🔥happy Christmas in advance Jesse san 🎉
Same to you!
This is a great lesson in history. What you present makes perfectly good sense. I really appreciate your educational videos like this. Thank you so much for sharing.
Much appreciated!
Your show is awesome. I was on Okinawa Japan for three years while stationed there as a UNITED STATES MARINE. I studied Okinawan KENPO KOBUDO. My life and the lives of several people were saved because of the skills I learned. Keep up the fantastic works you are putting out. It’s interesting and insightful. THANKYOU.
My capoeira teacher once vaguely talked about the influence of savat in Capoeira. I am going to look more into it. I personally believe something similar happened to Capoeira where the more wrestling based art-form slowly morphed into a more spectacular and "dancing" form.
It makes sense now why karate has a lot of high kicks, even high kicks are not optimal for self defence. Karate is really a generalisation of a lot of very different styles.
mma
True - and if one takes a look at old Savate manuals, kicks to the head are only recommended if you are taller than the opponent. Otherwise legs, lower and upper torso are recommended as targets.
Another great video! I think we must understand the bunkai of the kata to recognize the subtle stomping and blocking techniques with the leg.
Most definitely! It's hidden in plain sight.
I can see everything more clearly, lesson after lesson. I have said this also earlier, but 20 years ago, when I was active training shotokan, there was wondering, that why is there so big gap between the Kata-training and Kumite... Now its clear, that they are literally from different worlds. Thank you for this history lesson.
The fencing origins make so much sense! I can't unsee the shapes now. Thanks!
Fencing evolved from Medieval and Classical Graeco Roman Sword fighting techniques. It's all related
Karate didnt had any high kicks because was based in a south chinese kung fu.
That’s it 👍 Close quarter combat 😎
Northern kung fu uses a lot of kicks. I also rad that the fist Savate men were French sailors. One they came home from their sailing expedition and brought some fancy kicking skills for self defense. May be they had learned them abroad .
Kicks are very rare in asian martial arts (except thay) until the advent of cinema, hell, even the europeans prefer boxe and wrestling, in a real fight is more safe stay with the 2 foots on the ground
Yes, with some add-on from SE gear (possibly the philippines or Java)
@@suyasaherbal6042 , indeed often the geography would determine the type of techniques used. Southern china being closer to water would often have fights take place on boats or places that compromised or challenged one's balance; thus in southern styles there was either a lack of emphasis on kicks or an emphasis on low level kicks. Whereas northern china had a bit more mountainous regions thus the inhabitants developed stronger legs and thus there became an emphasis on kicks of a higher level (height-wise, similar to how korean arts like taekkyon developed).
Another thing to take into consideration, about kicks used on the battlefield, is that often the type of armor worn determined how much movement a warrior had, thus often an armored warrior couldn't kick much higher than the waist. This as much as terrain determined what footwork and kicks were used.
Jesse I have been practicing Chinese hungar and other martial arts for 25 years and I'm such a fan of your investigative journalism it makes me very happy to see a man who is so engaged and involved and peeling away the layers of deception and ignorance and I just wanted to say thank you very much for one martial artist to another keep doing the good work ...
Thanks a lot!
I've loved Savate for years and never knew about this. This is a major revelation to me. Thank you for bringing this to light Jesse!
The history of different martial arts is so fascinating. Until actually doing some research myself, i never would have assumed that so many martial arts were already sort of a melting pot of different styles. Great video Jesse
So, you’re telling me that those types of kicks descended from rapier and smallsword fencing? Interesting. The foot itself might be considered as the tip of the sword rather than the entire edge, since rapiers and smallswords were more geared towards the thrust than the cut.
That's an excellent way to view it.
In savate, most kicks are done with the tip of the shoe. That's the reason why there is that semblance to fencing.
Kicking and punching were never a part of any sort of fencing, although the mindset is similar. Savate seems to have evolved from the street fighting of commoners, and was embraced by the upper classes around the 19th. century. Fencing was traditionally an upper class thing, and commoners were often forbidden from owning or carrying swords. In the continual evolution of self defense, and as society became more democratic, there was more access to all kinds of martial arts training.
@@Braindazzled That is not true, kicks show up starting from some of the earliest fencing manuals for example Fiore and Talhoffer.
Look into the old fencing books. A lot of interesting wrestling, boxing and kicking in them. A book on Ringen has them. I’ve lost my copy unfortunately
I'm so glad and happy that savate is being appreciated, it was a beautiful art.
Much respect to you Jesse 💪
IS a beautiful art. It is a French tradition that’s alive and kickin’ !
Bruce Lee's kicks came from Savate. One thing I like about Savate is that the execution of the kicks are faster without the over chambering used in TKD and some Karate schools
Thanks for the video. My Great grandfather and my Grandfather were savate. I saw my grandfather doing a backflip off the wall and kicked the ceiling and landed on his feet. 3 times in a row and landed on the same spot every time. My father is 83 years old 8th Dan in traditional Shotokan started back in 1963 still teaching coaching. Before that he was a brown belt in Judo back in the late 1950s. Where did Taekwondo begin. It started from Shotokan Karate under The founder of Shotokan Sensei Funakoshi. He Graded two black belts from Korean. And the rest is history.
man your content is so good, thank you and congrats.
Excellent video.
I would also say some of the early students of Funakoshi were Koreans who lived in Manchuria. They have exposed to various Northern Chinese styles that have high kicks. When we look at the map, regions that have high kicks are SE Asia countries with strong Khmer cultural heritage, and NE Asia with strong Northern Chinese cultural heritage, i.e. Northern Chinese provinces including Manchuria, and Korea. Mas Oyama lived in Manchuria and claimed learned 18 Hands until he was recruited into military flight school. I believe 18 Hands refers to 十八翻, the fundamental 18 Taolu or Kata of Chuo Jiao 戳腳。
Would Chinese martial arts have these kicks independent of influence from Savate? If you reply please leave a like, I have notifications turned off for replies.
@@peterwang5660 None of the Chinese martial art styles that I have researched have any influence from savate.
@@user-lt8vw4fe4w Please excuse my changing the subject but what about Muay Thai in Thailand? Pro fighters do use high kicks. Was Savate the influence?
@@RhodesRhodes Thailand is in SE Asia. The Thai people came from Southern Chinese Yunnan, Guangxi and western Guangdong. When they moved to northern Thailand and Laos under the pressure of the Mongols, they intermaried with local Khmer people including Mon. So the language is Thai but culture is Khmer.
Savate is French in origin, some friends told me it is from Marseille but some friends told me it is from Northern France. It has many high kicks
@@user-lt8vw4fe4w It sounds like there is no Savate influence on Muay Thai from what you are saying. Is that correct?
WOW!!! You're busting many old myths. Another amazing video my brother. Thank you.
More to come!
My goodness this was SO interesting! Thank you for making videos sharing the history of Karate.
Always love learning about karate history! Thank you! Mr Enkamp
Thank you for your tireless research Enkamp Sensei. This path of learning that you have embraced is what makes one a true master.
Wow, still can't believe that Franco-Prussian War (Battle of Sedan) and Rapier (Fencing) had something to do with Karate in Japan.
Karate is very much a ”invented tradition” 🥋
@@KARATEbyJesse This former Japanology student supports this notion! Japan's invented traditions are one of the best thing about this beautiful country. And I don't mean this sarcastically.
@@aweigh1010 Encore un américain fier de son ignorance. Vous arrive-t-il de savoir avant de parler ?
Fascinating!
I thought I knew a lot about martial arts, but I'm always learning new and surprising things from your channel. Thank you!
As a Savatuer, I really like this video 🍻👍😎🥊
Damn! Love the history lesson. Always wondered about savate. Interesting to find how far martial arts are connected in different ways. Always a pleasure watching your videos
Love your stuff sir, of all the knowledgeable and honorable traditional martial arts instructors on youtube, I honestly think you have the widest knowledge base. Or are the best at conveying that knowledge.
Whatever the case, thank you for the enlightening content, as per usual.
I appreciate that
With all your videos you may encourage an all inspiring, up dated version of KARATE yet again.
Great job. Always look forward to your videos.
Again another OUTSTANDING video my brother , you are a true practitioner of your craft ,from a technical standpoint to a historical perspective. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge.
🤠👍🏾
Wow, thanks!
Jesse, can you make a video talking about the punch witouth the hikite in the old Okinawan karate and why in the modern combat there is hikite?
I would be SUPER interested to see that one!
karate was influenced by so many different cultures, very interesting
Absolutely great highlight. Many thanks.
Impressive work!!! Thanks for share your knowledge!!!
Incredible...and very interesting like always!!👍🏼👍🏼😊
Wy don't you make a video on Kyokushinkai Karate and Oyama?
Great suggestion!
@@KARATEbyJesse And how about the link between karate and taekwondo, especially the more traditional taekwondo (like ITF) or its precursors like Taekkyeon?
Jon Bluming had interesting view on Kyokusins origin. And I heard also that Oyama had an friendly encounter with two Musy Thai practitioners. So maybe you can research it. Love your videos
@@KARATEbyJesse for your episode on Oyama and Kyokushin, could you identify where its kicks came from? I’ve read the low kicks come from 60s Japanese kickboxing (early Muay-thai inspired K1), and the flashy kicks from Taekwondo (after all, Oyama was Korean, and even met with General Choi). And the “no head punches” competition format - did that also come from Taekwondo? (albeit with no chest protector and added low kicks). Thanks!
When I saw the thumnail I was praying to God "Pls god I don't want sensei to say that karate got inspired by taekwondo" 😂😂
Me too
It Can't Be Taekwondo Hehe Maybe Tekkyeon haha. But Don't Laugh At Taekwondo. if you practice,Any Martial art is useful
Come now it’s well known Tae Kwon do absolutely did not influence karate in fact it came from karate not some ancient Korean system .
@@ketsugo3 But You Know that Original Karate Didn't have any head height kicks.But,Taekkyeon had it.But, yeah Taekwondo kicks now are enriched with Kyokushin especially.Not as Graceful as Taekkyeon.Umm in my Country the art Is Called Angampora Which Is Like More Than 33,000 years Old from spoken History and older than 5000 years from Written History. You should see it if you like brutal martial arts 😃
@@1tan_freed0m the Korea people add kicks to every thing hapkido etc . I did TKD as a kid through age 20 , it was fun but not really my cup of tea
Wow, great video Sensei, thanks for sharing all this history and the time you spend researching. Great work
That is one of the coolest videos you have ever posted. I would have never in a thousand years made that connection. That is positively amazing. I honestly will never look at karate or Savate the same way again....mind blown 🤯. Keep up the amazing work brother 🙂
And I've been thinking about that TaeKwonDo is looking more and more like fencing. But with kicks. Little did I know about savate... Thanks for the info. Really interesting 😊❤️from Thailand 🇹🇭
And Taekwondo is highly influenced by Karate as well. But now Taekwondo is closer to these old Savate videos than ever before. I start to think we are not evolving but running in circles..
Funakoshi:Think of hands and feet as swords.
Congrats, Monsieur Jesse ! One of the your best videos about history of martial arts. Tks !
Amazing Video! An authentic history of Modern Karaté! Keep Going... please...
Mind blowing...Jesse bringing unique top quality contant as always!
Thanks a ton
Yes, I learned about ‘Savate’, back in the late 60’s.
Ever miss the 60's?
@@joelmatus9442 - Except for Vietnam, every day.
Jesse this video is magnificent. I have been reading articles and books about martial arts for many years (more than 20 years) and this video is unexpected, logical, interesting and well documented. It is rare for me to find new information about martial arts and you have been surprising me from the first time that I watched your videos. Please, continue doing new videos about the martial arts, karate, the history of karate, the history of karate techniques and more and more. I hope to have the honor of meeting you some day and share information about martial arts and karate. Regards !
Thanks for your kind words! 🙏
This is an awesome channel- I've been interested in martial arts the majority of my life and never heard even a whisper about this. Very interesting. Thanks.
Kicks are my favourite things to train in any martial arts.High,fast and varied kicks like my idol and hero Jean-Claude Camille François van Varenberg - The God of High Kick.
The ballerina of martial arts
@@alfredodelacruz1864 NOT really but this is your opinion. Its doesnt matter to me I can be his only fan and still love him.
I LOVE these Karate history classes 😍
Love your work Jesse, great informative video! It demonstrates the evolution of Karate and how the ability to adapt is vital to survival, not only of the style but for practitioners
Great video! Very interesting and educational. Thank you!
Honestly I don’t think many realise how important you are to the karate community without you a lot of this knowledge I feel would have been lost!
👍🏻 Jesse you legend 😉 great video
I appreciate that!
So no one should say anything about me creating my own style.
Exactly. Everything has to start somewhere.
Every great fighter has their own style tbh.
Man, I really love your videos. The respect and dedication to them, are awesome.
I'll be damned, Jesse. I wouldn't have known any of this. Great educational video once again.
My favourite kick is that which
re -stomps the groin 😂😂
Very interesting, thanks for sharing Jesse.
When I started training in Shotokan in 1974 under Shigeru Takashina we practiced front snap kick, roundhouse kick, side thrust and side snap kick and spinning back kick, and sometimes double jump front kick and that was it. I picked up crescent kicks, hook kick, thai kick, etc. from other styles, and practiced flying side kicks because they were fun. It was my understanding that Funokoshi practiced and taught front snap, roundhouse, side thrust and back kick.
As always, informative, interesting, and entertaining. You've given me a new-found respect for Budo and Okinawan/Japanese martial traditions.
The Budo it Japaneses, Don't Okinawa.
As a French citizen, I am happy that French military expeditions are mentioned here as influential in Japanese Karate. But I also wonder how Korean martial arts (KMA) like Taekkyon, may also have its part in it. As a matter of fact, everyone knows how Shotokan Karate had a major influence on the creation of Taekwondo. But, on the way around, those Korean nationals who learned Karate during their forced time in Japan had some prior experience in the KMA. Expecially regarding Jump kicks, Savate doesn't have so much but they are more common in North-East Asia. But as for French influence, Japanese would not admit any Korean root in their catalog, the context being so heavily nationalist in the beginning of the 20th century .
David, thanks. I studied TKD several decades ago and I (as opposed to everyone) have wondered many times why the kata I learned were Shotokan. I spent 2 years learning Japanese kata in a school that was "TKD" and essentially what I learned was Shotokan. Evidently I learned some Savate there as well. Speaking of nationalism the Korean TKD dropped the Japanese catalog in "1970" approximately and came out with their own. At least that's what I remember.
Everyone was stealing from one another 🤭 but that's how modern martial arts were made
Now this is *really* interesting. My main sport is HEMA (historical european martial arts, which mostly boils down to historical fencing with various types of swords), and I started doing a bit of shotokan Karate on the side a year ago... Because I had noticed how damn-near identical the footwork was, and since footwork is not talked about much in the historical sources on which HEMA is based, I thought it might be a good idea to look into a martial art with an unbroken tradition to see if I could take some pointers from that. Now you're basically telling me I'm going in circles :D
What an informational video! Thank you very much!
Love this! I heard about Savate in the late 1960s as a little kid, from a family friend in the navy, who had spent time in France. He used to mess around with me, teaching me in my parent's back garden. It stuck with me, even though no-one else ever seemed to have heard of Savate. I'm now shotokan!
So, all that time I spent, stretching, and flexibility training, to do those high kicks, was done to actually perfect my French Savate!?! Man my whole life has been a lie!
Something I find interesting about Savate is that (from what I've been given to understand as I'm not a Savateur myself) is that certain kicking techniques apparently involve the point of one's toes given that the art is practiced wearing shoes, a further connection to its origin and namesake. Those kinds of toe kicks can really do damage, especially when targeting the ribs or various organs. A lot of the punching techniques also remind me of Classical Pugilism (also referred to as Bare Knuckle Boxing by many) in some aspects.
I can't say whether or not Savate was influenced by Classical Pugilism as well, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it was, assuming it came before Savate, which I would assume it did given the different eras of Classical Pugilism date back quite a ways in places like England, which is considered to be its land of origin. From what I've found, it seems that Classical Pugilism in its earliest stages was about as no-holds-barred as you would likely find, save for the short-lived brutality of an American martial art referred to as Rough and Tumble, which was so uninhibited by regulations that it was never officially codified and thus is a dead art, perhaps for the best all around. In that era of Classical Pugilism, punches were far from the only focus.
While there were a number of simplistic kicking techniques, there were also various grappling techniques, which I assume may have been taken from or evolved from some forms of wrestling, possibly Greco-Roman or similar method/style as one was not allowed to grab below the waist or use the legs for sweeping or tripping, which I think is the case in Greco-Roman for their throws, but I'm not familiar with the specifics of most western grappling sadly.
Although I don't imagine that Classical Pugilism is at all connected with Karate, at least not to my limited knowledge, but I figured I would provide a few details about it even though I'm by no means any kind of expert on this art either, but I'm sure someone in the comments section might find this information interesting or otherwise may have far more knowledge of it than I ever could and wouldn't mind pointing out any and all inaccuracies, which I'm of course gladly open to. :)
Toe kicks are taught, but are generally illegal in competition due to the considerable damage that can be done. Older-school savateurs like Vigneron were, indeed, well-known as grapplers as well.
@@russmitchellmovement That's really interesting :D Thanks so much for sharing this with me. I hope that you're doing well and having a great day.
Thank you Jesse for this very informative and interesting vid. Very eye opening. I had that book Mas Oyama’s Karate as Practiced in Japan. Thanks again Jesse Peace
very very interesting video! thank you Jesse!
My thoughts as a TKD practitioner, watching this: So people criticizing TKD as "foot fencing" aren't actually so far off from the truth.
Also, to people who want to read further, Jesse quoted "Donn F Draeger" in case you wanted to look him up.
Old school TKD was savage, man. I still remember a combat from my master in which he took his opponent helment off by hitting him with a spinning back kick. Upon the installment of electronics, it became a game of tag. but most dangerously, taekwondo experts are trained to defeat other taekwondo experts thus loosing the overall sense of self defense. Monkey kick for example.
My father learned Moo Duk Kwon Tae Kwon Do in the 70s and it was full contact. Now people laugh at tkd, but the old school guys were hardcore
I like kicks and all but motobi choki didn't use them right? So I'll pass :)
Amazing research and information! Absolutely awesome Sensei!!!
I love how educational your videos are!
Wow! Honestly I really thought that the kicks in karate were influenced from chines kung fu such as white crane and Korean taekyeon because I what watch from other videos, they say that the ryukyu traveller, scholars and trader, trade and learn south-east culture and many more.
As I watch movement in white crane kung-fu I witnessed a hard linear stike and a soft circular defence. As I observed in taekayeon (old style tkd) I've seen offensive kicks both high and low and defensive hand movement.
But any ways its just my own opinion and thoughts thanks for this video I learned more lessons
You have a point. This is only an Jessie construction.
As the French would say, Bravo! on a fantastic historical exposition.
Wow, this is what has perplexed me so long. Thank you for sharing a fine research with all of us.
Love watching these; I don’t train in karate but still a fan of the sport and I love learning about its history
I guess for all Karatekas, we all should say merci to the French for being a contributor to Karate today.
Ok so as a french person and former karate practician, I have been lied to and pretty much been practicing Savate all these years ?? 😂 Thanks alot for your researches and informations! Keep up the great work !
Comme on le dit, tu en as deux pour le prix d'un.
Excellent video Jesse!
THANK YOU JESSE!! Amazing video, you do so much for Karate
Interesting stuff. Just imagine if karate didn't adapt. Different world.
Change is the only thing constant in life ☺️
I really like the way Jesse tries to imply that there’s nothing wrong with Japanese karate. He doesn’t say ‘Japanese karate is inferior’ or ‘Japanese karate is just a sport’, he credits it for what it is - ‘a method of self perfection’. Rather than pointing out the negatives he emphasises the positives. Very nice.
Thanks for pointing that out. It's important.
So it's base to hide the negatives
Excellent video from a true sensei. Thank you.
Great Jesse Sensei! Learn with you is so easy! Thanks to share with us!