Here is our full, extended discussion with Andrew Probert about the redesigned refit Enterprise NCC-1701 done for Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Please look us up on Patreon and donate: www.patreon.co...
I think the way the nacelle pylons sweep back is inspired particularly in that shot in TMP when she leaves space dock and moves forward and nacelles just glide behind seamlessly like they are actually slicing through space, it just looks right. I really like the colour palette, the clean aesthetic and light greys contrasted with the blue deflector is futuristic. It hasn't dated either! the TOS constitution kinda has. For the uninitiated I don't think you could guess the refit was designed in the 70s. It's timeless i think that's a key point. it would have been so easy to put that horrid digital numerical font used in the 80s for everything 'futuristic' on the enterprise but thank goodness that wasn't entertained. they stayed with original thinking and created a registry font that is dynamic and really is an essential part of the overall design. She is a beautiful tall ship of the future and always will be.
While I do like the TOS design (as I grew up on it as a kid), I do prefer the TMP version. I see the TOS as more efficient (maybe Vulcans designed the original?)
My favorite ship of all. I just love everything about the Constitution refit, but if anything caught my eye more as a kid that cemented how great I think this ship is, is that big, bright deflector dish and the swept back, "flared" look that it had thanks to the pylons and the design of the nacelles. The only thing I could say that I was not fond of for the longest time, is that only the insides of the nacelles light up and the outsides remained blacked out, drove me insane when I was younger, but I've gotten used to it since. But none-the-less, amazing ship.
I think we love it so much is that we went from a Enterprise that had very little detail to a brand new design that concentrated on detail. The new sleek design is all uniform from bow to stern. Then you take that kind of care and put it on a big screen for at least 3 movies with the same ship... no one got bored with it. And I agree I would love to see how he would do a modern take of the refit design... I have money it would blow JJ's Enterprise design out of the water...
I think what made this incarnation of the USS Enterprise so perfect was, it was the first design to realistically or at least compellingly demonstrate the scale and dimension of the vessel and of fleet vessels in general. The positioning of windows and docking ports give the sense of dimension that is consistent across the whole design of the ship and equally importantly so the design aesthetic for the fleet and even the space stations and dry docks. Look at the dry dock for the NCC-1701-D and it looks like a monstrous crab claw clutching the saucer of the "D" without the sense of scale of windows in it or the consistency of ship surface detail. The TMP universe is just so perfect. The dry dock looks like scaffolding for lighting and utilitarian equipment necessary to do the job of refitting or building a starship. And it's scale is appropriate. The gorgeous reveal of the establishing shot of the Enterprise in TMP was probably integral to boosting that realism. Space suited workers floating around or standing amongst the scaffolding, the worker bee's scurrying about in precise paths, the travel pod that Scotty teases and tantalizes Kirk and us, the audience with, all these things compel us into a plausible... no, a totally believable sense of scale and believable utility and day to day commonplace activities of the time. What we see in that establishing scene of the Enterprise reveal is simply reality of what happens in Earth orbit in the 23 century. Then there is the gorgeous sports car like streamline of the Saucer section, neck, the bulbousness of the secondary hull with the sublime streamlined sweep of the nacelle pylons. The tantalizing interior view of the cargo bay. Plausible venting where you have unearthly powerful reactions happening in those nacelles and pylons, but durable docking port doors and frames where those complex maneuvers would take place. The Aztecing of the ship plating that gives depth and realism of a hull that has to withstand rigors of space and high speed maneuvers and stresses of battle or spacial anomalies. Realistic running lighting and the gorgeous specialty highlighting that is almost boastful or at least showoff the pride in the design aesthetic. The addition of phaser turrets and photon torpedo bays. The appropriate scale of those with the inclusion of additional docking ports on that level. Just everything WORKS with that NCC 1701 Refit design. Nothing detracts. I never even questioned the implausible dimension of the crew lounge and placement in the saucer until Andrew Probert pointed it out. Like I said, everything was believable about that ship in a way that was never quite replicated in any other era's ship design. And the ship schematics on displays within the ship are plausible. And the schematics of cannon publications like "Mr.Scott's Guide to the Enterprise", everything just took Sci-Fi fantasy and made it a reality in that movie, or design. In closing, one thing I may have changed because it looks kinda out of scale to my mind is the interior layout of the torpedo bay. It didn't look like it could fit two of those in the space where the two torpedo tubes line up on the exterior of the ship. And the whole loading process seems overly complicated for a futuristic vessel. Kinda like a torpedo loading on a WWII submarine. Not enough automation. Too open and exposed to such dangerous armament. Too many people involved with superfluous activities surrounding a torpedo firing. Could you imagine going through that process in every emergency situation where firing a photon torpedo would be necessary. The warp wormhole crash with the asteroid in TMP would never have been avoided with such a complicated firing process. Also where the torpedo had to be dropped to the loading train... where would this happen in the design of the Reliant's torpedo bay ? That was inconsistent. Otherwise, everything, EVERYTHING about the design of the TMP Enterprise and other Starfleet vessels like Reliant and a lot of the designs in the FASA "Starfleet Ship Recognition Manual" are consistent and plausible IMO.
I love it because it doesn't look futuristic because of bunch of glowing parts but because of it's detail in the it's physical design. Excelsior borrowed everything it knew from Probert's design intent. In fact nearly every Federation ship did. Probert set an indelible standard on Trek Design and he should ABSOLUTELY be apart of it's future.
By far and away the best design of the Enterprise. The scale of the ship is not too big and "feels" like the size of a space/naval vessel and not a "city" in space. The sleek lines which combine very shallow graceful curves with linear lines in a nice balance puts this above any of the other incarnations. The painting of the vessel/model (particularly in the ST:TMP instance) which allows the prismatic specularity really make it feel metallic without being a grey/silver metal color. And most importantly for me, the rational of it being self-lighting. While I know some liberties were taken to get the self-lighting to look pretty (i.e. using external mirrors to make nice hot-spots) the rational always made much more sense than any other screen presentation that this ship was in deep space.
I am so impressed that Andrew asked for feedback. And I am being completely honest when I say that I agree with the bulk of what's said and will try to be specific as he asked. I think it is the most realistic in large part due to the exquisite paneling work that holds up under close detailed observation and that actually looks like it is a constructed ship rather than one seamless piece that would tend to look more like "plastic". Other then being in space there are no visual cues that this is not real. The Aztec patterns obviously highlights those details and gives no indication at all that this is not a real full sized object in space. Add to that the paint job which shimmered like real metal catching light and reflecting in different ways as real metal does, and those combined aspects create the essential and perfect recipe for scale, realism, and believability as far as I'm concerned! Simply perfection that should be far more widely adopted and copied often, even within the Star Trek universe; they seem to have gotten away from this and more to "things of a piece" style which then hurts scale and realism in my view. While they still have included a form of boilerplate it just does not hold up to this much more subtle and fine layers of paint of slightly different colours of the pearlescent finish and other fine detailing, especially in these lighter colors which catch reflect and affect light in ways that a matte grey finished just doesn't. Also the scale provided by the windows and the floodlights adds such an extra dimension of realism I don't think it can be overstated. Then there are the very fine details like the hatches, docking ports, main shuttle bay doors, torpedo bay, and connecting points between different parts that are so detailed and fine that taken together as a collective it just seems absolutely real for lack of a better word. In a more general sense the proportions and relationships between the different shapes is just perfect. No one shape seems to outweigh (either literally or figuratively) the others and the sizes all seem perfectly proportionate. Also I think later designs relied a lot on animated glowing parts for visual interest and this movie model, while it did have lighted parts, seemed much more like mechanical, projected or atmospheric interior light rather than just an amorphous glowing blob without an obvious purpose. Anything that lights up or glows on this ship is a window, a spotlight, an engine or the dish; all of which whose function are clear even to a casual observer. And maybe that's the most important thing is that anyone that has never even seen Star Trek (if there is such a person) can see this ship and understand that this is where the people are, here's the windows they see out of, here is the part of the ship where they land the shuttles, these are obviously the engines etc and it just is easily understandable on a basic human level, where a lot of other ships rely on people understanding what a boussard collector is or warp drive geometry works in order to appreciate it. This is a design anyone can appreciate even if it's just on Aesthetics alone. So this ship serves both masters; both the intensely fanatic and the casual viewer and that in itself is truly a monumental achievement. I would be remiss if I didn't include the things that I am curious about. I never understood the dark notch on the base of the back of the neck. It doesn't bother me it just seems like an incongruous detail when everything around it is so clearly thought-out, so it's probably something I merely don't understand but it is something about witch I've wondered. I think as someone else mentioned is that if the inside grills glowed while using the warp engines a very soft glow on the outside grills would have been interesting but that never bothered me, again just a very minor curiosity. Frankly if none of them glowed that would have been fine as compared to the previous version I found this much more believable without the Unexplained swirling lights at the front of the engines; these looks so much more like functional propulsion units with the grillwork that suggests an actual real world purpose, so I hesitate to ask for more glowing parts! But only because the insides did, it also was just something I wondered about. Finally I often wondered why much more of the saucer edge didn't have windows, spaced evenly around it. It seems like a natural place for windows to be and while it didn't hurt the scale as it is, it would have hurt it to have more windows in those very natural forward and outward facing places. Again this is such a tiny nitpick I wouldn't even consider it something I dislike just more of a question. When a designed it so perfect that you really have to wrack your brain to find anything about it you dislike I think it's just more testimony to the perfection of the final result. Once again, thank you Mr Probert for your very charitable gift of your time, experience, and expertise. I always learn a lot from you and I hope to hear a lot more in the future. In the meantime I will continue to listen to these videos as each time I listen I pick up another detail that allows me to enjoy these designs even more than I already have all these years! Sincere thanks for all of your work and absolutely crucial and invaluable contribution not just to Star Trek that to my and so many others' personal lives through entertainment and inspiration! Incalculable hours studying and drawing and viewing and appreciating your designs have inspired me and I'm sure many other artists as well. Cheers!
I love this ship! I don't what it is about it specifically that made it my favorite. I just know that as a kid, seeing this ship on the big screen for the first time, I was simply blown away by overall beauty of the thing. To me, this is the Enterprise.
To Address Andrew's Questions... Yes I do like the refit very much, it is the most "elegant" era of ship design in some ways. she really is a proud swan gliding through space. The slight touches or art deco shapes seem to add something too - they do give her a sculptural feel - and the aztec deco on a white base is visually appealing too - much more so that the later mid Dove grey/blue tones of the TNG era I like the lack of the Bussard Collectors for this era - it's another reason why I like that about some Klingon and Romulan ships too - they also have that detail and concentration of shape and form over glowing bits for the sake of it. As to the point of realism The Enterprise seems to have a look that infers no wsted space - and form following function. where as if you look at the D it's less obvious where everything is in relation to anything else except in the most general terms. That is why I also like the USS Prometheus and the Nova Class - you can see what everything does and where it is and the form and function is unified. They look purposeful - some ships look a bit thrown together like the Nebula Class. And some look like design over function like the Akira class perhaps. Though in simple terms I like the refit as she's pretty and they showed her off well - it's sort of like Thunderbirds - people like Thunderbird 2 as it's always shown off well in what it does and how it's presented. Same with the Movie Enterprise. That said I do still enjoy the look of the TOS & FASA spin offs and the later 24th Century look is a firm favourite too.. Perhaps because they can get a bit crazy sometimes and it's interesting to see that. But the Movie era is stately looking.
It is a beautiful design. The infamous scene where Kirk and Scotty and flying around the ship in spacedock really gave it a sense of scale. I don't think that was ever really replicated with any other ship in any other scene. And because it was a physical model with so much detail, it looked like a real ship that you could touch. The aztecing, or whatever you want to call it, gave the sense that all of the different color metal pieces of the ship were (for lack of a better term) welded together. Plus it was in six Star Trek films. No other Enterprise can make that claim.
I for one loved this ship mostly because I was raises watching both these movies as they came out (born in 81) and the original series. The ship "feels real." The panels, the windows, the scale of the shuttles and shuttle bay, those docking shuttles that connect in those side ports. The torpedo bay and the fact we get to see the crew interact closely with the torpedoes. The movie flicking to that tiny dome in Star Trek III when they stole the ship from space dock. The ship is rather large, like a US Navy Aircraft carrier, but its crew is rather small, like that of a US Navy cruiser. There seems to be a difference in square footage of space taken up by a carrier (on which I've been on several), and that of a space ship that must be entirely enclosed due to the vacuum; carriers don't have to worry much about that. You get a sense of relatable scale with this ship. PERHAPS that is the reason people like this so much more than the rest, yes the others are larger, faster, maneuverable like a starfighter, the Enterprise E can take out a Borg Cube or whatever, but both the refit and 1701-A feel more attainable, more realistic. Lumbering, powerful, physical. I look at the saucer section of Enterprise D, and I see a mass of lights that *may* represent windows, but at the scale that ship is supposed to be, those windows seem far too large. There is a video out there on youtube that shows just how much space on Ent. D. you really need to fit the entire crew of 1,000, and the space is REALLY TINY compared to the rest of the ship. While it seems this scales rather well as the D ship is quite bigger than the refit, size goes up, crew goes up, it seems LESS relatable. Other ships, like those small vessels the crew used on DS9, forgot the names, but those warp equipped shuttles, these seem to give you a sense of scale and I think you even get to see them planetside, so those work also, but they don't have Refit Enterprise's sheer PRESENCE.
I like this over the original BECAUSE it has a sense of depth and motion. The aztec marks, rcs, hull plating all gives the ship a much needed boost in detailing and the sleek shape makes it seem the ship very fast.
I honestly think this ship is not only the most beautiful ship in Star Trek but in SciFi !!! I'm a Star Trek, Star Wars, Space 1999, Battlestar Galactica ( 1978 and 2005), Alien Series, Etc. fan and I've followed ST since 1974 and the rest as they came out. I loved the Matt Jeffries designs of the original show but loved how they moved it along into this !!! Great episode, good job guys !!!
For the longest time, this ship has been my favorite; though in recent years the TOS "The Cage" version has come up to TIE with the TMP version; or as I call them, the Original Constitution and the Enterprise-class Heavy Cruisers. As for WHY it's my favorite, everything he did to make it what it is. Azteccing, Nacelles & Pylons, Phasers & Torpedoes, reaction control thrusters all these elements combined to make one sleek, badass ship! If the TOS was a classic muscle car, the TMP was a high-performance beast for the 80s! My Akagi, which is my kitbashed 1701-A was based on an idea for a weapons testbed, has been a part of my Trek character's story for two decades now and I am reexamining all the details of this class as I plan the evolution to a true Trek Battleship class, developed from this design almost exclusively.
I just wish they show the separation in real time like the enterprise-d. this is the technology before the advancement of the ship putting itself back together without the assistance of space. This is pretty darn cool. to mr. Probert thank you for having created the classic cylons on Battlestar Galactica. They are pretty darn cool too.
It was my first Enterprise in 1979. IT was the first thing I recorded from the TV, before I started recording TOS in reruns at 1030 cst every night on channel 11. So for me, the Refit is the first and best, and TOS is the original and is lovely for 1966. Love your work sir, you have created masterpieces, imo.
Mr. Probert, you've created a timeless design. You took the TOS version and made a quantum leap design that looked fantastic for the Movies. Amazing for since this is 2019, making the refit of StarShip Enterprise 40 years old. The Refit will go on another 40 years and still be admired.
Ok since you at Trekyards and Mr Probert asked us to give "unbiased feedback" on your designs in the comments, well here I go and you know how bluntly honest I am from our discussion on Facebook about the "lack of Deflector Dish on the USS Constellation " but anyway lol... I LOVE THE REFIT ENTERPRISE because it looks more plausible and realistic compared to the TOS original. You did a great job on the Deflector Dish and the aztec painting on the hull was so beautiful that I wore out my original VHS tape of The Motion Picture to stare at the slow shots of the Enterprise in Dry Dock then rewind, pause, slow motioned it that the tape got stuck in the VCR and broke it lol so it's a work of art. The Phaser Cannons look proper, the Photon Torpedo dual launchers were perfect BUT when I watched ST2:TWOK I thought wouldn't the Enterprise have blown up since the Reliant shot directly on the Torpedo Bay's side and shouldn't the PhoTorps in storage have exploded too? Last thing, you made inprovements upon the Phase II improvements looking 300% better. You deserved Oscars for f/x unless you already got one. :) KUDOS!!!!
He’s right about changing the deflector dish because it’s obviously originally supposed to be some sort of transceiver. So given that it’s now a nav deflector it should take a different look
The most important thing I take away from the refit, and why it's my favorite Enterprise design, is that it is the best example of a ship that makes sense within the world it inhabits. It adheres to the logic of the universe - every component of it reads, "Well, if they're going to be in deep space, and these are the parameters of space that have been established in this universe (real or fantastical), this ship needs part x to accomplish task y."
For me, the initial reveal of the Enterprise in TMP was just so magnificent and grandiose. The ship's immediately recognizable as the Enterprise due to the overall shape- but as the ship powers up and we see those little details like the individual spotlights and the pearlescent reflections off the hull... No one had ever seen anything like that before. it really makes you think that it's a real ship you're looking at that physically exists. I think when people say it's the most realistic, that's what they mean. It's also something that will probably never be matched- because no matter how good you are with texturing and lighting you just can't do that kind of work with CGI. You usually can't even do that with physical models- I can't think of any other show or movie that had ships that were designed from the beginning to be filmed so close. A lot credit to the Jim Dow and all the Magicam guys for creating (and lighting!) something truly remarkable then FGC for filming it... but if you don't have a solid design to start from it all falls apart. I think the strength in the Enterprise Refit is that it builds on what had been done before and doesn't destroy it. I chuckle every time that I see the part of this show where Probert talks about how he wanted to jack the size of the ship up. I think one of the reasons it's so easy to accept the design is it's completely believable that the original ship was literally refit into this. Imagine if it was 2000 feet? How would we justify that in-universe? lol.. Mind... blown. As far as reproducing the success of the design. I almost think it's a one off. By taking an already beloved design and adjusting the proportions in such subtle but rational and reasonable ways, creating a paint scheme that's never been matched, and having some of the best physical modelers and painters bring it to life for you.... But then there's the Enterprise D. In a way the design of that ship is even more of a design triumph for Mr. Probert than the Refit. I mean he deserves a lot of the credit for the Refit, don't get me wrong... But with the D was truly his design and no one else's. And that's special.
Its over all appearance just pops and it seems the most plausible out of all the early federation designs. The one thing that always bothered me was the neck but in the end it doesn't bother me enough to hate it. It just seems so vulnerable and thin.
The Phase II Enterprise deserves a lot of the credit as it was already much of the way towards the Movie design - it had already moved the Torpedo launchers, changed the engines to "art deco" rectangles, added more Windows, and some extra details,overall - and perhaps most importantly for the look added the angled swept struts on the nacelles - which is one of the main things that improves the look. I do wonder sometimes if the RTS system is a backwards step as the Original TOS Enterprise seemed to manage fine without them - suggesting she was able to move a slow speeds in some other way perhaps using internal gravity generators or some sort of mild sub-space distortion. Though Matt Jefferies may have simply only thought of the ship as having main engines like a Jet fighter and not considered that space ships need to have something to push outwards as they have no air-resistance to use to steer. Though it's quite possible the nacelle tips can do a lot of that - or even the lower saucer and upper secondary hull sensor domes or the main deflector can do something like that for all I know. Or the reaction thrusters are there but just not obvious. (sort of like how the docking ports are likely there but hidden). The docking ports are not super obvious on the D either for that matter. as we get more into the 24th Century more details are seemingly added. Does the refit or the A even have Transporter grid emitters, a Warp core ejection port or a tractor beam emitter for example ?
Funny enough, I thought the rec room was in the secondary hull, towards the back like near the shuttle bay. Maybe right behind the back wall of the shuttle bay due to the size of it. lol Maybe that would have made a little more sense in some ways. You board the ship, and introduced to nothing critical, or off limits right away, but instead a room for relaxing, having fun, etc. Makes sense to me. Also I would have to say, The original, Re-fit/ A, E, D, NX-01 are my favorite Enterprise designs, in that order.
I think fans like this Enterprise because the vessel is artistically beautiful. The upper saucer does a gradual convex slope from the outside edge of the saucer to where it rises up to a concave dome from the bridge dome rests. The warp pylons do not punch into the secondary hull like in TOS, but flows out smoothly from a small location, then flares out to 2 to 3 times the width the connect to the Warp nacelles at the nacelles center of gravity. The profile of the ship looks like a bird in flight, as if she is moving forward while being perfectly still. Never mind the technical functionality of the ship, she's just plain beautiful.
I like her because I was raised around her, watching the Kirk era DVD movies was my early childhood. Even inspired me to start being the artist in my family.
The Enterprise refit/A is my favorite spaceship of all time followed by the Millennium Falcon and the Eagle one. This is an awesome video! Thanks for this. Love your channel. The Enterprise E is my second favorite Star Trek starship your videos on that are just as cool.
As far as what makes it so beloved and beautiful - I'd say a few things. The original proportions have been maintained and there's a video explaining the way in which that basic set of shapes are so compelling at every angle. Add to that, all the detail discussed here - the deco style, the white color and new-but-familiar livery, those interacting shapes, the introduction of qualities that expanded on original intentions (like the plans available that had "skin transparent to energy" notations which the new glowy deflector fits with). It is the best of practical, believable engineering made beautiful. And I think there's something to say about how well it honored the years of experience fans had "living in/with" the original from the show. That's a thing the JJ movies don't understand - we don't merely want sci fi action set in a Trek universe. We love *the ship*, so since this design update honored it and made everything beautiful and elegant (feeling like Goldsmith's music flowed over every new sweeping form), it was a "welcome home" to fans. And a final note: I always assumed that rec room was somewhere in the 2ndary because of its height. Hmm.
I do love the Refit and the -A wish we had seen them more before they had to die. :-( ..... Andrew is so to the point with his answers.... why did you do xyz.... answer "yessss" lol Never understood the logic for Canceling Phase 2 because of the release of Star Wars at the theater. Phase 2 was set for television and would not have have been competing with Star Wars or Battle Star Galatica or Buck Rogers. The later 2 which also came out within a couple years of Star Wars and did quit well at the Theater and on TV. Just about anything sci-fi was getting attention during the late 70's early 80's. Think they dropped the ball not going forward with phase 2 but we will never know. The reason I loved it and the TOS version is because both remind me of the Tall Sailing Frigates of the 17-1800's...... Great Job Andrew
I never realised that the recreation room was supposed to be in the saucer section. I always thought it was part of the engineering hull. It clearly would not fit into the saucer.
30:40 I don’t know if I answered it on the original video, but I actually prefer the Enterprise-D because that ship had “eyes” in the same way KITT (Knight Rider) or the Cylons had “eyes”. Maybe if this design had a dorsal phaser strip it would be my favourite as well.
by paint applications - two different methods - Aztecing is done by paint masks and pearls and iridescents - Paneling is done by masking tape and tinting the BASE hull color darker or lighter.
Being an 80s kid, I grew up with TNG, but I remember the first star trek I had ever seen (Errand of Mercy). The refit is a very nice upgrade to the TOS Enterprise, but the E-D was grand. Big sweeping curves, lots of windows, bright engines suggesting vast power. Being an aviation enthusiast, I would find a good analogue in parking a P-51 next to a F-22. The F-22 just has a more unified look, blended into one rather than parts stuck together.
This is my favorite Star Trek ship, by far, but I'd probably still struggle to explain why in a satisfactory way! I think part of it is that the shape is classic. It _is_ the Enterprise, plain and simple. Almost all other Federation ships are based on this basic shape, and this particular version of the Constitution class just happens to look great from any angle, and no matter which direction it's moving in. The word that always comes to mind when I think about this design is 'elegant'. To expand on that a bit...I think certain parts of it (the nacelle pylons, for instance) look just a little bit delicate from certain angles--and when I say 'delicate', I mean that in a positive way! Maybe it reminds me of the masts on a sailing vessel, or something like that. It's something that feels less and less present in Federation ship designs as time goes on, eventually leading to things like the Intrepid class which, despite being another design I adore, doesn't feel very delicate at all.
Totally agree. That 'elegance' is what makes it feel like a ship, and a space ship at that, not just a modified version of a rocket or earthbound battlewagon; calling back to the age of sail. It helps you imagine that in building a Starship, humanity is using technology and structures in ways both new, and elegantly simple; structures in space don't need to look conventionally sturdy without the need to hold up in gravity. Seems to me the more they try to sleek up the basic design, in all the stuff post-Next Generation and in the J.J. Abrams redux movies, blending the hull components together and subjecting the design to some idea of conventional streamlining, the farther they get from that straightforward functional aesthetic. Why build the ship as a separate disc and hull, for example, if they just get smoothed back together again?
Ok...I will preface by saying that the Enterprise D IS my favorite design. I think though I can understand why some people don't like it as much, and from what I gathered it was because the proportion of the saucer section of the D is quite large in comparison to the engineering hull. But, this isn't a discussion on the D. So I will elaborate on the things I love and don't love about the refit/A design. First, there's a great aesthetic to the swept back pylons coming from the strongback of the engineering hull. This evokes a feeling as if it's a flying animal, wings outstretched, about to push down for acceleration, as birds and other flying animals do. Second, the redesign of the overall shape of the engineering hull gives the ship more of an organic feel to it. It gives it a sense of strength (which is probably why the top of engineering was called the strongback) and power. Also, when looking at animals that glide, fly, or swim, they generally have that type of shape to them. Even though aerodynamics don't apply in a vacuum, the mind associates these things with flight. Next, the neck proportions and shape fit perfectly with the overall design of the ship, contributing to the flying animal theme that I see. The nacelles are where the Art Deco/50's automobile styling comes out strong. The design of the flux chiller grills, bussard collectors, etc, all evoke the straight line and 90 degree angles of art deco design, while the shape of the nacelles give off that "tailfins" look of cars like the '57 Chevy and such. Another thing that I think may subconsciously make people like this design, is that there is a lot of callbacks to either straight lines or circles. For example, most of the windows are circular, along with the impulse crystal, the deflector dish, docking ports, and of course, the saucer itself. When looking straight on at either port or starboard, the saucer becomes a rectangle that almost runs in line with the lines of the flux chiller grills and the bussard collectors. Overall, the shape of the refit is very flowing, considering you're basically dealing with a lot of attached parts sticking out from each other. Having the nacelles above the plane of the saucer gives it the feel of having bigger "wings" about to flap, and most animals with larger wings tend to give the impression of a more powerful hunting bird. It also calls to mind how when building a hot rod, it made sense to jack the back of the car up and put a higher suspension to add larger tires. It made the car look fast, and I think that's what is going on here as well. Comparative to the D though, the D looks more like an aquatic creature...like a manta, with being wider, and having smaller "wings", when looking at the nacelles and pylons. The oval shapes that dominate the design also add to the aquatic creature feel, and I think most people don't realize that. I could go on and on about both of these ships, so, if you'd want more insight on my opinions on the design as a fan (with no design experience whatsoever), I'll be happy to provide.
Interesting allegories with animal shapes. I always look at the NCC 1701 Refit as a powerful Mustang coupe with the grille in the nacelles, the rear fin in the rar of the nacelles, the aggressive forward slant of the grille to the dominating saucer section and photon torpedo bay, yet the curvaceous body and rear fin evoking the curves of the saucer, secondary hull and swept back nacelle pylons. The 1701 Refit looked like a muscle sports car. A Mustang. Whereas a Voyager or even some angles on the "D" are reminiscent of a Corvette Stingray, based off a fast aquatic predator.
The 1701 refit is my second favorite Enterprise design, right behind the 1701-D. I think the refit is a sleeker, more refined version of the already iconic Matt Jefferies original design -- with a significant amount of attention to detail. IMHO, I think the design is extremely well balanced, with the proportions between the warp nacelles and pylons, secondary hull, neck, and saucer section, creating a very aesthetically pleasing starship. My only gripe is there are no red bussard collectors and the front of the warp nacelles (a hallmark of Starfleet ship designs).
Watching this Video made me notice the black cut-out in the back of the neck a bit more - that is a curious bit - it looks rather like a tiny shuttle bay door or possibly armour. Oh and with apologies to Andrew - I like the "United Federation of Planets" built into the pennant very much. You could see that fine if in formation flight or in space dock - something much more likely than landing the saucer would be. Also as has been mentioned before it does help the work crews to have the ship detail written on her so they don't accidentally start working on the wrong ship when in a busy space dock. I do like the red pin striping in general - but I'm a little unsure if it's like it on the top or lower surface of the saucer so much - but around the thrusters and phasers and engine vents where it has some in some places I'd be fine with a little more of that. I notice there is quite a lot of that of the Battle Star Galactica Vipers too - though they likely got it off the stripes on the X-Wings they were so clearly inspired by. As for the rec - room I'm embarrassed to admit that I never even noticed it was in the saucer - I always thought it was in the lower side of the engineering hull (mirroring the Garden area you can see through the side hull windows). But as I've said in the comments on these vids before I tend to pay more attention to the outside than the insides of the ships. If it makes any difference I'd say to Andrew he is 3rd or 4th on the list of people who do this sort of thing who's names I heard in order.
"Watching this Video made me notice the black cut-out in the back of the neck a bit more - that is a curious bit - it looks rather like a tiny shuttle bay door or possibly armour." In the original David Kimble inked blueprints (and poster) that came out when TMP did, those are torpedo launcher exhaust vents.
For me, this is THE Enterprise. The original, Matt Jefferies design from TOS is terrific, but due to the fact that, at its inception, they simply didn't know what all the ship could/would do, it's a little soft on some of the "real-world" details that the Refit realized, specifically, the phaser turrets and photon torpedo launchers, the RCS thrusters, and docking ports. Stylistically, I love the swept back nacelle pylons, the recessed deflector dish, and the details of the nacelles, themselves. I really can't think of any part of the ship that I don't like. The only nit I could pick would be the lack of an aft torpedo launcher, but that's really it. Well, that and the impossible Rec Room...but that ship has sailed, as it were. ;-)
I agree with almost everything you have said except about the 1701-A. Except for the reveal and closing of ST:IV the Voyage home, Shatner and the studio went full cliche and kinda took a dump on the "A". I mean, the turbo lift tube showing over 60 decks... why insult your audience for a cheap rocket boot gag that ends up not being well realized anyway ?
The refit is such an improvement over the original because of the fact it was movie quality. I must admit that I really like the remastered TOS Enterprise because of the improvements in the look. That said the refit appears to be part of a design philosophy (See Reliant in Wrath of Khan) throughout Star Fleet. Also, love it or hate it Star Trek the Movie showcased the design like no other movie has before or since.
The TMP version seemed like, " we gotta get this ship running for this crisis... no time for the standard paint scheme" Whereas TWOK and TSFS was more " now we can have her in her standard Starfleet pale blue paint"
In my mind, this particular ship was what the TOS could have been.. and ultimately did become. There is not an inch of wasted space, superfluous shinies, or arbitrary gizmos here or there. Every part of this ship has function and purpose.. you just know it does something. I only watched the movies after I had been watching TNG for a bit.. seeing this ship made me appreciate what Star Trek was and caused me to go back further and watch the original series. In any case, this is an absolutely beautiful vessel and, to me, will always be the pinnacle of Starfleet design from which all future designs drew inspiration.
Re watching years later. Great interview! Question that's bugging me...the studio model was made vaccumformed plastic how did they get the guidelines in the saucer and secondary hull? Masking?
Focusing on the look of the ship. In essence the refit hit that sweet spot where it managed to keep all of the aesthetics that worked from the ToS version while also improving the components that were overlooked (phaser coverage) or clearly dated (deflector dish). It's instantly recognizable and combines beauty with function. Most importantly the redesign did enough without going overboard. A good few comparisons would be the Excelsior, Galaxy class, and the DS9 Defiant. While I love the Excelsior, it's the prime example of inconsistent aesthetic. Smoothe and curvy in parts and jagged 90 degree angles in others, then there's that paper thin part of the drive section holding the nacelles. The galaxy class, is a beautiful consistent looking ship and my intro to the series. That said, with all of the curves and ovoid shapes particularly around the main deflector, the ship isn't instantly recognizable to a newcomer to the series as something built by humans. The Defiant is a tough little ship and I love everything about it but at the end of the day it's purely utilitarian and not the kind of ship that screams work of art like the other hero ships. The Prometheus and Akira classes also hit the sweet spot in aesthetic which I imagine is one of the reasons both of those classes are so popular.
"The most popular Enterprise, loved by the fans." Andrew Probert. I agree but it's the least seen in other areas (like in TNG when they bring out older style ships or in video games). Why is that? As far as why I like the refit over all other iterations of the N.C.C. 1701 Enterprise is because it looks the most realistic...HA! Anyways, I think it looks the best because it's fantastically detailed, the swept back and taper look of the pylons from smaller at the secondary hull to larger at the warp nacelles, a forward facing dual torpedo launcher with the rectangular ports, the shuttle bay, just every aspect, in my opinion, looks better. My favorite federation ship from all the movies would be the 1864, favorite klingon ship is the bird of prey, favorite from television series is the klingon vor'cha...yeah, that about covers it. I'm not a big fan of federation or any other ships portrayed in the television series with exceptions being the Akira class and maybe one or two others.
It's a perfect design, feminine vibe, elegant seafaring ocean liner in space displaying grace and power effortlessly without ego or attitude. She just is.....😃
My favorite is the D. But this is such an amazing enterprise. It still feel as the Matt Jeffrey design, it feel the same ship (different then JJ ship). How ever it feel modern, slick, an art piece.
I really wish this version of the enterprise actually had more adventures they destroyed it every time it was on screen. It never past beyond the bounds of the federation its beautiful
What I like about The Motion Picture's version of the Enterprise is that is has a clean look to it. The exterior change wasn't too noticeable in 1979 because it had been a while since we have seen the model on tv.
I love the original colors. The pearlescent paint makes it look 3 dimensional, yet smooth and incredibly advanced. The paint scheme from the later films feels very flat in comparison. When I think of beauty shots, it's the drydock scenes, or warping from Earth in 1 & 2. Not warping from Spacedock in Star Trek 6. Design-wise it is unique, no colored bussed collectors (the B had the blue slits) rectangular warp nacelles, very cool, soft coloring with intermittent red highlights. those are all components that contribute to its beauty. Unique, but not a crazy departure like the McQuarrie concept which doesn't feel very "Star Trek."
The Refit Constitution is my 2nd favorite design. The Enterprise A in my opinion looks better than just the refit. However my #1 is another Andrew Probert ship. The Galaxy Class is by far the best Starship of all time in my opinion.
Amazing design and I really enjoyed it for the TOS generation but I like the Enterprise D the best even over the E-E. The photon launchers made it look more like a combat capable ship over the Constitution class.
I personally think the reason that it is the most loved is that it was a modernisation without taken away from the origonal structure that was so loved. If you were to take the refit vs JJ's as they are both different interpations of the origonal. JJ's looks like the enterpise has been eating some heavy calroires as its ridiculous big but the refit was an elegant redesign in comparsion.
For the NCC-1701-A, the end result is greater than the sum of its parts. Getting rid of the goofy looking 1960s elements from TOS, like the campy satellite communications dish where the deflector is now, the spinny-Boussard collectors on the front of the warp nacelles, and just getting rid of all the strange tube-geometry (Nacelles, torpedo bay) and replacing them with a cooler, Art Deco design improved its aspect-silhouette dramatically. The additions of angular (but still beveled) architecture gives a look that is both futuristic and rugged. The Aztec patterning reminds me a lot of the metallic hulls of real world ships and looks so much better than the bright white or matte-grey texturing on Trek ships from other eras. This works wonders even in close-up shots on the big screen for conveying both lighting and motion (and battle damage, like in Wrath of Khan and Search for Spock). By comparison, I never liked the texturing on the TNG era ships and especially not the Galaxy class style, because it looks like a very bumpy toy/model and lacks that the "field of depth" effect the refit's texture offers. (it could be worse as the plastic-fake look of Abrams' 'USS iPod' and subsequent STD designs proved) Finally, the lights on the Enterprise Refit model avoids committing one of my pet peeve cardinal sins of Sci-Fi: Extraneous internal lighting. (aka "just slap some blinky lights and call it sci-fi") All of the Enterprise Refit's lights and trimming seem to serve a sensible purpose beyond just looking nice or "because sci-fi". The blinking lights on the saucer are clearly akin to navigation lights on real world ships and the placard lighting obviously serves the purpose for clear identification of which ship it is and who owns it. (there are multiple other small identification lights, showing other parts of the ship as a United Federation of Planets vessel, which is both honest and in line with Star Fleet's ideals) If pressed, I'd say the most gratuitous of these is the deflector dish's color, but the deep blue light completes the look so well amidst everything else by conveying a sense that when you see it lit up, you know the ship is operational and ready for action. (something that later era Trek models get right, and it all started here with the Enterprise Refit) Because of all this, the Enterprise Refit doesn't look like a toy; it looks like something you could actually live and work in because in both its aspect and detail, It has the characteristic personality of a ship first and foremost. The only model of comparable quality from Trek, IMO, is its contemporary Miranda class model, the USS Reliant, and for the same reasons. Despite its unconventional design, it too screams "I AM A SHIP" rather than "I am a blinky model/action figure". These two ships constitute some of my favorite looking fictional vessels of any kind for that reason, and I'm damned glad that I was around to see them and not just the fake-looking blinger-crap Trek has been putting out for the past 13 years or so.
It's interesting about the "most realistic" comment. Of course it's purely subjective, but perhaps this is because the overall aesthetic of the TMP Enterprise evokes the kind of engineering one sees in real-life production-built machines. Compare this to the sweeping, flowing nacelle booms of the TNG Enterprise, which evokes - to me at least - more the kind of machines one sees in concept art or one-off proof-of-concept machines or cars.
The Refit is more sensible as far as structure goes, it is stronger than before. It is yacht like, it has smooth long curves showing it isn't just a straight metal tube, this implies a more luxurious feature. Even the cut-away at the back is reminiscent of a luxury yacht. My only concern over the design is that the neck is too thin and vulnerable. I would atleast double it's thickness. Vulnerable places need more plating. I think the blue on forward leading edges implies more protection but there is another reason to have two color layers in paint: it shows damage better. Ballistic targets do the same thing only with bright green over fluorescent orange, every ping shows a large orange spot where the damage is. This will work to help repair and maintenance droids could easily spot small damage from sand and gravel sized damage.
It looks like Scotty got carried away with the refit to only keep the basic superstructure of the hull and add to it. Designing the best ship you can while doing a refit makes sense with all the new equipment you could find available. The phase 2 looks more realistic with more of the original ship remaining intact. I'm sure in the storyline explaining that most ships were moth balled and replaced with the newer design of ship because they almost were a new ship after the refit. I've thought up one that's the Phase 2 with the blue navigational deflector and warp nacelles of the Enterprise subclass and made out of 5 different class of Constitution variants which became an alternate class of ship constructed at a remote shipyard in the outer portion of Star fleet territory. I'd like to see the 1986 Dreadnought class from the novel used in a good fan film with swept back warp nacelle pylons and a blue navigational deflector like the Enterprise subclass as well a secondary hull that looks similar. Section 31 should be the only one using it with the cloaking device design taken from the Romulun D-7 by Kirk and crew. 👋
Does a ship refit mean you change the registry? I understand if a new ship is made from the ground up and continuing the line then changing the registery to the A. Or was because it had such a large refit, for all intensive purposes is a new ship?
The registry wasn't changed. The NCC-1701-A was completely different ship with the same name and "refit" design. The successor to the 1701 after it was destroyed.
Realistic it looks the most realistic I've heard that in my entire life about the motion picture era Enterprise and the elaborate for you Mr Probert and this is for you as well Sam and Captain foli you guys ever read this I think I can summarize it for you what makes this design the most realistic is it's Art Deco expression and Naval structural depth it just works within styling language The lines were all fully realized just like on a car just like on a skyscraper the original series Enterprise is a Timeless classic design as this is a classic design but the original ship left a lot to be desired it was maybe too simple to plane not enough visual tension maybe just a little too much visual release With it swept back pylons with its Aztec with the connective points from where the saucer the neck the Engineering Hall All Connect have a concentric relationship with each other it creates a realistic design realistic in the fact that well a real space ship a Starship could look like this because every angle seems to have been given care and even if we don't know what it is it looks advanced it looks profound An Elegant lady an elegant woman it may not have the organic flares of the original it may not have the elliptical sculpted organic lines of the Galaxy Glass Enterprise D from TNG B compressed elliptical and angular shapes of the e or even 30 second century Salvador Dali style Starships LOL. But that's where I think the rubric Falls that's where I think the rationale comes from fan saying it's the most realistic I think you could have gone a little bit further or dialed it back a little bit more and it would have worked given the original series ships some of this vessels design cues which the Disco price some people have said that's what it really reflects but it's a nice balance for a cinematic audiences imaginations even if the fashion and Technology evolves differently for the visual Touchstone on the Cinematic screen we gazed into the future and saw the wonder that would be NOTE!!!!!!!! Real quick for all my fellow trekkies and Mr Probert and Sam and folly if I can't remember to comment on it anywhere else I'm just going to go ahead and say it here I do not believe this vessel does not have a torpedo launchers that is such a technical oversight I would never as a Starfleet Admiral ever let this damn thing out without an apt Photon torpedo launcher even if it's one I would have multiple it's such a design oversight I don't accept it no standing warship or vessel with any armaments have ever had no weapon systems of any Merit at the ass end there's just no way you want this thing to be considered the flagship and it can't fire a photon torpedo afterwards that's insanity I would never let it leave space dock without at least two Photon torpedo launchers if someone said oh it doesn't have a rear firing torpedo launcher I would say oh I want 2 installed by Tuesday morning end of story LOL
TMP Enterprise is the epitome of Star Trek ship design. Even TNG Enterprise doesn't capture peoples' imaginations to the degree that TMP Enterprise captures it.
I didn't like the nacelles because they have a look that always makes me think of the 80s. Not sure why but this always bugged me. Other than that it's a great ship
Prettiest Enterprise ever! Why? It seems sturdy, realistic e streamlined. What I don't like... Rec Room. In TAS we saw that the Enterprise had already a sort of "holodeck", it had to be included in this version
I love the Enterprise Refit model. It's just perfect the way it is. Incredible work! And I believe that the 2009 model used in the new Star Trek movies does not deliver the same presence and attitude. The curved pylons of the 2009 model, in my opinion, are a design crime... I would definitely prefer having the Refit in the 2009 movie instead the one they used.
I miss the days when Star Trek creators cared about starship designs. We've lost that with new Trek. Compare this ship to the new Janeway class and you see how bad it is. Star Trek inspired so many people through these ships. There's nothing inspiring about modern Trek ships. I wish we could convince them you can have respect for what's come while creating brand new stories.
If more people would follow the line of site rule and the rule of pairs we would have so much better consistency in Star Trek. All Form follows function so if you see these rules as facilitating the function of the warp drive system, then one cannot help but come to this sort of configuration. Here are the rules 1. the living section must be able to separate from the engineering section for safety. 2.The warp nacelles need to work in random and be in line of site of one another to create a warp bubble. 3. Warp nacelles work in pairs to create a war- bubble. Given this you would invariable com to a configuration like the enterprise comprised of a dis or other shape with two tubular projections 2 above and one below. So, given that warp speeds need this sort of configuration to work it makes sense that other alien FTL capable races would also have pairs of warp nacelles. Of course there are other solutions like the Vulcan ring system and the romulan Hull cavity design still utilizing a pair of nacelles. There may also be a sphere system. But all of the above have some sort of space in the middle where the warp bubble is formed. So really it’s a form follows function design scheme. When one sees ships breaking these rules it ruins the continuity. I could see having 3 nacelles but only as a redundant nacell should one be destroyed. So odd number nacelles just don’t work. These rules give reason to the brand look of Star Trek ships and that’s just the truth no matter what has been erroneously canonized by lazy designers and designers wishing to make ships look more like Star Wars.
I think the way the nacelle pylons sweep back is inspired particularly in that shot in TMP when she leaves space dock and moves forward and nacelles just glide behind seamlessly like they are actually slicing through space, it just looks right. I really like the colour palette, the clean aesthetic and light greys contrasted with the blue deflector is futuristic. It hasn't dated either! the TOS constitution kinda has. For the uninitiated I don't think you could guess the refit was designed in the 70s. It's timeless i think that's a key point. it would have been so easy to put that horrid digital numerical font used in the 80s for everything 'futuristic' on the enterprise but thank goodness that wasn't entertained. they stayed with original thinking and created a registry font that is dynamic and really is an essential part of the overall design. She is a beautiful tall ship of the future and always will be.
While I do like the TOS design (as I grew up on it as a kid), I do prefer the TMP version.
I see the TOS as more efficient (maybe Vulcans designed the original?)
My favorite ship of all. I just love everything about the Constitution refit, but if anything caught my eye more as a kid that cemented how great I think this ship is, is that big, bright deflector dish and the swept back, "flared" look that it had thanks to the pylons and the design of the nacelles. The only thing I could say that I was not fond of for the longest time, is that only the insides of the nacelles light up and the outsides remained blacked out, drove me insane when I was younger, but I've gotten used to it since. But none-the-less, amazing ship.
Not just the Enterprise, but the entire visual look of the movie era is great. It all looks... elegant.
I think we love it so much is that we went from a Enterprise that had very little detail to a brand new design that concentrated on detail. The new sleek design is all uniform from bow to stern. Then you take that kind of care and put it on a big screen for at least 3 movies with the same ship... no one got bored with it. And I agree I would love to see how he would do a modern take of the refit design... I have money it would blow JJ's Enterprise design out of the water...
I think what made this incarnation of the USS Enterprise so perfect was, it was the first design to realistically or at least compellingly demonstrate the scale and dimension of the vessel and of fleet vessels in general. The positioning of windows and docking ports give the sense of dimension that is consistent across the whole design of the ship and equally importantly so the design aesthetic for the fleet and even the space stations and dry docks. Look at the dry dock for the NCC-1701-D and it looks like a monstrous crab claw clutching the saucer of the "D" without the sense of scale of windows in it or the consistency of ship surface detail. The TMP universe is just so perfect. The dry dock looks like scaffolding for lighting and utilitarian equipment necessary to do the job of refitting or building a starship. And it's scale is appropriate. The gorgeous reveal of the establishing shot of the Enterprise in TMP was probably integral to boosting that realism. Space suited workers floating around or standing amongst the scaffolding, the worker bee's scurrying about in precise paths, the travel pod that Scotty teases and tantalizes Kirk and us, the audience with, all these things compel us into a plausible... no, a totally believable sense of scale and believable utility and day to day commonplace activities of the time. What we see in that establishing scene of the Enterprise reveal is simply reality of what happens in Earth orbit in the 23 century.
Then there is the gorgeous sports car like streamline of the Saucer section, neck, the bulbousness of the secondary hull with the sublime streamlined sweep of the nacelle pylons. The tantalizing interior view of the cargo bay. Plausible venting where you have unearthly powerful reactions happening in those nacelles and pylons, but durable docking port doors and frames where those complex maneuvers would take place. The Aztecing of the ship plating that gives depth and realism of a hull that has to withstand rigors of space and high speed maneuvers and stresses of battle or spacial anomalies. Realistic running lighting and the gorgeous specialty highlighting that is almost boastful or at least showoff the pride in the design aesthetic. The addition of phaser turrets and photon torpedo bays. The appropriate scale of those with the inclusion of additional docking ports on that level.
Just everything WORKS with that NCC 1701 Refit design. Nothing detracts. I never even questioned the implausible dimension of the crew lounge and placement in the saucer until Andrew Probert pointed it out. Like I said, everything was believable about that ship in a way that was never quite replicated in any other era's ship design. And the ship schematics on displays within the ship are plausible. And the schematics of cannon publications like "Mr.Scott's Guide to the Enterprise", everything just took Sci-Fi fantasy and made it a reality in that movie, or design.
In closing, one thing I may have changed because it looks kinda out of scale to my mind is the interior layout of the torpedo bay. It didn't look like it could fit two of those in the space where the two torpedo tubes line up on the exterior of the ship. And the whole loading process seems overly complicated for a futuristic vessel. Kinda like a torpedo loading on a WWII submarine. Not enough automation. Too open and exposed to such dangerous armament. Too many people involved with superfluous activities surrounding a torpedo firing. Could you imagine going through that process in every emergency situation where firing a photon torpedo would be necessary. The warp wormhole crash with the asteroid in TMP would never have been avoided with such a complicated firing process. Also where the torpedo had to be dropped to the loading train... where would this happen in the design of the Reliant's torpedo bay ? That was inconsistent. Otherwise, everything, EVERYTHING about the design of the TMP Enterprise and other Starfleet vessels like Reliant and a lot of the designs in the FASA "Starfleet Ship Recognition Manual" are consistent and plausible IMO.
Love your explanation. You have mirrored many of my sentiments. Subscribed.
I love it because it doesn't look futuristic because of bunch of glowing parts but because of it's detail in the it's physical design.
Excelsior borrowed everything it knew from Probert's design intent. In fact nearly every Federation ship did. Probert set an indelible standard on Trek Design and he should ABSOLUTELY be apart of it's future.
Most beautiful ship ever designed in Star Trek! Great breakdown Mr Probert! Great episode Trekyards!
By far and away the best design of the Enterprise. The scale of the ship is not too big and "feels" like the size of a space/naval vessel and not a "city" in space. The sleek lines which combine very shallow graceful curves with linear lines in a nice balance puts this above any of the other incarnations. The painting of the vessel/model (particularly in the ST:TMP instance) which allows the prismatic specularity really make it feel metallic without being a grey/silver metal color. And most importantly for me, the rational of it being self-lighting. While I know some liberties were taken to get the self-lighting to look pretty (i.e. using external mirrors to make nice hot-spots) the rational always made much more sense than any other screen presentation that this ship was in deep space.
I am so impressed that Andrew asked for feedback. And I am being completely honest when I say that I agree with the bulk of what's said and will try to be specific as he asked.
I think it is the most realistic in large part due to the exquisite paneling work that holds up under close detailed observation and that actually looks like it is a constructed ship rather than one seamless piece that would tend to look more like "plastic". Other then being in space there are no visual cues that this is not real.
The Aztec patterns obviously highlights those details and gives no indication at all that this is not a real full sized object in space. Add to that the paint job which shimmered like real metal catching light and reflecting in different ways as real metal does, and those combined aspects create the essential and perfect recipe for scale, realism, and believability as far as I'm concerned!
Simply perfection that should be far more widely adopted and copied often, even within the Star Trek universe; they seem to have gotten away from this and more to "things of a piece" style which then hurts scale and realism in my view.
While they still have included a form of boilerplate it just does not hold up to this much more subtle and fine layers of paint of slightly different colours of the pearlescent finish and other fine detailing, especially in these lighter colors which catch reflect and affect light in ways that a matte grey finished just doesn't.
Also the scale provided by the windows and the floodlights adds such an extra dimension of realism I don't think it can be overstated.
Then there are the very fine details like the hatches, docking ports, main shuttle bay doors, torpedo bay, and connecting points between different parts that are so detailed and fine that taken together as a collective it just seems absolutely real for lack of a better word.
In a more general sense the proportions and relationships between the different shapes is just perfect. No one shape seems to outweigh (either literally or figuratively) the others and the sizes all seem perfectly proportionate.
Also I think later designs relied a lot on animated glowing parts for visual interest and this movie model, while it did have lighted parts, seemed much more like mechanical, projected or atmospheric interior light rather than just an amorphous glowing blob without an obvious purpose. Anything that lights up or glows on this ship is a window, a spotlight, an engine or the dish; all of which whose function are clear even to a casual observer.
And maybe that's the most important thing is that anyone that has never even seen Star Trek (if there is such a person) can see this ship and understand that this is where the people are, here's the windows they see out of, here is the part of the ship where they land the shuttles, these are obviously the engines etc and it just is easily understandable on a basic human level, where a lot of other ships rely on people understanding what a boussard collector is or warp drive geometry works in order to appreciate it.
This is a design anyone can appreciate even if it's just on Aesthetics alone.
So this ship serves both masters; both the intensely fanatic and the casual viewer and that in itself is truly a monumental achievement.
I would be remiss if I didn't include the things that I am curious about. I never understood the dark notch on the base of the back of the neck. It doesn't bother me it just seems like an incongruous detail when everything around it is so clearly thought-out, so it's probably something I merely don't understand but it is something about witch I've wondered.
I think as someone else mentioned is that if the inside grills glowed while using the warp engines a very soft glow on the outside grills would have been interesting but that never bothered me, again just a very minor curiosity. Frankly if none of them glowed that would have been fine as compared to the previous version I found this much more believable without the Unexplained swirling lights at the front of the engines; these looks so much more like functional propulsion units with the grillwork that suggests an actual real world purpose, so I hesitate to ask for more glowing parts! But only because the insides did, it also was just something I wondered about.
Finally I often wondered why much more of the saucer edge didn't have windows, spaced evenly around it. It seems like a natural place for windows to be and while it didn't hurt the scale as it is, it would have hurt it to have more windows in those very natural forward and outward facing places. Again this is such a tiny nitpick I wouldn't even consider it something I dislike just more of a question.
When a designed it so perfect that you really have to wrack your brain to find anything about it you dislike I think it's just more testimony to the perfection of the final result.
Once again, thank you Mr Probert for your very charitable gift of your time, experience, and expertise. I always learn a lot from you and I hope to hear a lot more in the future.
In the meantime I will continue to listen to these videos as each time I listen I pick up another detail that allows me to enjoy these designs even more than I already have all these years!
Sincere thanks for all of your work and absolutely crucial and invaluable contribution not just to Star Trek that to my and so many others' personal lives through entertainment and inspiration!
Incalculable hours studying and drawing and viewing and appreciating your designs have inspired me and I'm sure many other artists as well.
Cheers!
I love this ship! I don't what it is about it specifically that made it my favorite. I just know that as a kid, seeing this ship on the big screen for the first time, I was simply blown away by overall beauty of the thing. To me, this is the Enterprise.
To Address Andrew's Questions...
Yes I do like the refit very much, it is the most "elegant" era of ship design in some ways. she really is a proud swan gliding through space.
The slight touches or art deco shapes seem to add something too - they do give her a sculptural feel - and the aztec deco on a white base is visually appealing too - much more so that the later mid Dove grey/blue tones of the TNG era
I like the lack of the Bussard Collectors for this era - it's another reason why I like that about some Klingon and Romulan ships too - they also have that detail and concentration of shape and form over glowing bits for the sake of it.
As to the point of realism The Enterprise seems to have a look that infers no wsted space - and form following function. where as if you look at the D it's less obvious where everything is in relation to anything else except in the most general terms.
That is why I also like the USS Prometheus and the Nova Class - you can see what everything does and where it is and the form and function is unified.
They look purposeful - some ships look a bit thrown together like the Nebula Class.
And some look like design over function like the Akira class perhaps.
Though in simple terms I like the refit as she's pretty and they showed her off well - it's sort of like Thunderbirds - people like Thunderbird 2 as it's always shown off well in what it does and how it's presented. Same with the Movie Enterprise.
That said I do still enjoy the look of the TOS & FASA spin offs and the later 24th Century look is a firm favourite too.. Perhaps because they can get a bit crazy sometimes and it's interesting to see that.
But the Movie era is stately looking.
It is a beautiful design. The infamous scene where Kirk and Scotty and flying around the ship in spacedock really gave it a sense of scale. I don't think that was ever really replicated with any other ship in any other scene. And because it was a physical model with so much detail, it looked like a real ship that you could touch. The aztecing, or whatever you want to call it, gave the sense that all of the different color metal pieces of the ship were (for lack of a better term) welded together. Plus it was in six Star Trek films. No other Enterprise can make that claim.
Jeez Jason I ended up echoing a lot of what you said, lol.
I for one loved this ship mostly because I was raises watching both these movies as they came out (born in 81) and the original series.
The ship "feels real." The panels, the windows, the scale of the shuttles and shuttle bay, those docking shuttles that connect in those side ports. The torpedo bay and the fact we get to see the crew interact closely with the torpedoes. The movie flicking to that tiny dome in Star Trek III when they stole the ship from space dock. The ship is rather large, like a US Navy Aircraft carrier, but its crew is rather small, like that of a US Navy cruiser. There seems to be a difference in square footage of space taken up by a carrier (on which I've been on several), and that of a space ship that must be entirely enclosed due to the vacuum; carriers don't have to worry much about that.
You get a sense of relatable scale with this ship. PERHAPS that is the reason people like this so much more than the rest, yes the others are larger, faster, maneuverable like a starfighter, the Enterprise E can take out a Borg Cube or whatever, but both the refit and 1701-A feel more attainable, more realistic.
Lumbering, powerful, physical.
I look at the saucer section of Enterprise D, and I see a mass of lights that *may* represent windows, but at the scale that ship is supposed to be, those windows seem far too large.
There is a video out there on youtube that shows just how much space on Ent. D. you really need to fit the entire crew of 1,000, and the space is REALLY TINY compared to the rest of the ship.
While it seems this scales rather well as the D ship is quite bigger than the refit, size goes up, crew goes up, it seems LESS relatable.
Other ships, like those small vessels the crew used on DS9, forgot the names, but those warp equipped shuttles, these seem to give you a sense of scale and I think you even get to see them planetside, so those work also, but they don't have Refit Enterprise's sheer PRESENCE.
I like this over the original BECAUSE it has a sense of depth and motion. The aztec marks, rcs, hull plating all gives the ship a much needed boost in detailing and the sleek shape makes it seem the ship very fast.
I honestly think this ship is not only the most beautiful ship in Star Trek but in SciFi !!! I'm a Star Trek, Star Wars, Space 1999, Battlestar Galactica ( 1978 and 2005), Alien Series, Etc. fan and I've followed ST since 1974 and the rest as they came out. I loved the Matt Jeffries designs of the original show but loved how they moved it along into this !!! Great episode, good job guys !!!
For the longest time, this ship has been my favorite; though in recent years the TOS "The Cage" version has come up to TIE with the TMP version; or as I call them, the Original Constitution and the Enterprise-class Heavy Cruisers. As for WHY it's my favorite, everything he did to make it what it is. Azteccing, Nacelles & Pylons, Phasers & Torpedoes, reaction control thrusters all these elements combined to make one sleek, badass ship! If the TOS was a classic muscle car, the TMP was a high-performance beast for the 80s! My Akagi, which is my kitbashed 1701-A was based on an idea for a weapons testbed, has been a part of my Trek character's story for two decades now and I am reexamining all the details of this class as I plan the evolution to a true Trek Battleship class, developed from this design almost exclusively.
I really love hearing Andrew Probert talk about redesigned refit Enterprise NCC-1701 done for Star Trek : The Motion Picture.
I just wish they show the separation in real time like the enterprise-d. this is the technology before the advancement of the ship putting itself back together without the assistance of space. This is pretty darn cool. to mr. Probert thank you for having created the classic cylons on Battlestar Galactica. They are pretty darn cool too.
Great interview about the best-looking Enterprise! Beauty follows the form which follows the function.
Very cool video. I really love hearing Andrew Probert talking about the redesigned refit of Enterprise NN-1701 .One of the best all Trekyards videos.
It was my first Enterprise in 1979. IT was the first thing I recorded from the TV, before I started recording TOS in reruns at 1030 cst every night on channel 11.
So for me, the Refit is the first and best, and TOS is the original and is lovely for 1966.
Love your work sir, you have created masterpieces, imo.
Mr. Probert, you've created a timeless design. You took the TOS version and made a quantum leap design that looked fantastic for the Movies. Amazing for since this is 2019, making the refit of StarShip Enterprise 40 years old. The Refit will go on another 40 years and still be admired.
Ok since you at Trekyards and Mr Probert asked us to give "unbiased feedback" on your designs in the comments, well here I go and you know how bluntly honest I am from our discussion on Facebook about the "lack of Deflector Dish on the USS Constellation " but anyway lol... I LOVE THE REFIT ENTERPRISE because it looks more plausible and realistic compared to the TOS original. You did a great job on the Deflector Dish and the aztec painting on the hull was so beautiful that I wore out my original VHS tape of The Motion Picture to stare at the slow shots of the Enterprise in Dry Dock then rewind, pause, slow motioned it that the tape got stuck in the VCR and broke it lol so it's a work of art. The Phaser Cannons look proper, the Photon Torpedo dual launchers were perfect BUT when I watched ST2:TWOK I thought wouldn't the Enterprise have blown up since the Reliant shot directly on the Torpedo Bay's side and shouldn't the PhoTorps in storage have exploded too? Last thing, you made inprovements upon the Phase II improvements looking 300% better. You deserved Oscars for f/x unless you already got one. :) KUDOS!!!!
He’s right about changing the deflector dish because it’s obviously originally supposed to be some sort of transceiver. So given that it’s now a nav deflector it should take a different look
The most important thing I take away from the refit, and why it's my favorite Enterprise design, is that it is the best example of a ship that makes sense within the world it inhabits. It adheres to the logic of the universe - every component of it reads, "Well, if they're going to be in deep space, and these are the parameters of space that have been established in this universe (real or fantastical), this ship needs part x to accomplish task y."
Only thing I would add to the design would be an Aft Torpedo Launcher. The ship is perfect imo.
For me, the initial reveal of the Enterprise in TMP was just so magnificent and grandiose. The ship's immediately recognizable as the Enterprise due to the overall shape- but as the ship powers up and we see those little details like the individual spotlights and the pearlescent reflections off the hull... No one had ever seen anything like that before. it really makes you think that it's a real ship you're looking at that physically exists. I think when people say it's the most realistic, that's what they mean. It's also something that will probably never be matched- because no matter how good you are with texturing and lighting you just can't do that kind of work with CGI. You usually can't even do that with physical models- I can't think of any other show or movie that had ships that were designed from the beginning to be filmed so close.
A lot credit to the Jim Dow and all the Magicam guys for creating (and lighting!) something truly remarkable then FGC for filming it... but if you don't have a solid design to start from it all falls apart. I think the strength in the Enterprise Refit is that it builds on what had been done before and doesn't destroy it. I chuckle every time that I see the part of this show where Probert talks about how he wanted to jack the size of the ship up. I think one of the reasons it's so easy to accept the design is it's completely believable that the original ship was literally refit into this. Imagine if it was 2000 feet? How would we justify that in-universe? lol.. Mind... blown.
As far as reproducing the success of the design. I almost think it's a one off. By taking an already beloved design and adjusting the proportions in such subtle but rational and reasonable ways, creating a paint scheme that's never been matched, and having some of the best physical modelers and painters bring it to life for you....
But then there's the Enterprise D. In a way the design of that ship is even more of a design triumph for Mr. Probert than the Refit. I mean he deserves a lot of the credit for the Refit, don't get me wrong... But with the D was truly his design and no one else's. And that's special.
Yes exactly. The 1701 Refit looked like it could actually exist in detail and dimension.
Its over all appearance just pops and it seems the most plausible out of all the early federation designs. The one thing that always bothered me was the neck but in the end it doesn't bother me enough to hate it. It just seems so vulnerable and thin.
The Phase II Enterprise deserves a lot of the credit as it was already much of the way towards the Movie design - it had already moved the Torpedo launchers, changed the engines to "art deco" rectangles, added more Windows, and some extra details,overall - and perhaps most importantly for the look added the angled swept struts on the nacelles - which is one of the main things that improves the look.
I do wonder sometimes if the RTS system is a backwards step as the Original TOS Enterprise seemed to manage fine without them - suggesting she was able to move a slow speeds in some other way perhaps using internal gravity generators or some sort of mild sub-space distortion.
Though Matt Jefferies may have simply only thought of the ship as having main engines like a Jet fighter and not considered that space ships need to have something to push outwards as they have no air-resistance to use to steer.
Though it's quite possible the nacelle tips can do a lot of that - or even the lower saucer and upper secondary hull sensor domes or the main deflector can do something like that for all I know.
Or the reaction thrusters are there but just not obvious. (sort of like how the docking ports are likely there but hidden).
The docking ports are not super obvious on the D either for that matter.
as we get more into the 24th Century more details are seemingly added.
Does the refit or the A even have Transporter grid emitters, a Warp core ejection port or a tractor beam emitter for example ?
Funny enough, I thought the rec room was in the secondary hull, towards the back like near the shuttle bay. Maybe right behind the back wall of the shuttle bay due to the size of it. lol Maybe that would have made a little more sense in some ways. You board the ship, and introduced to nothing critical, or off limits right away, but instead a room for relaxing, having fun, etc. Makes sense to me.
Also I would have to say, The original, Re-fit/ A, E, D, NX-01 are my favorite Enterprise designs, in that order.
I think fans like this Enterprise because the vessel is artistically beautiful. The upper saucer does a gradual convex slope from the outside edge of the saucer to where it rises up to a concave dome from the bridge dome rests. The warp pylons do not punch into the secondary hull like in TOS, but flows out smoothly from a small location, then flares out to 2 to 3 times the width the connect to the Warp nacelles at the nacelles center of gravity. The profile of the ship looks like a bird in flight, as if she is moving forward while being perfectly still. Never mind the technical functionality of the ship, she's just plain beautiful.
21:30 that’s pretty awesome! Never knew the saucer was supposed to separate in TMP
THIS was my FAVORITE interview (followed by the discussion of Jeffries tubes)
I like her because I was raised around her, watching the Kirk era DVD movies was my early childhood. Even inspired me to start being the artist in my family.
The Enterprise refit/A is my favorite spaceship of all time followed by the Millennium Falcon and the Eagle one. This is an awesome video! Thanks for this. Love your channel. The Enterprise E is my second favorite Star Trek starship your videos on that are just as cool.
I really love this video. One of your best videos.
As far as what makes it so beloved and beautiful - I'd say a few things. The original proportions have been maintained and there's a video explaining the way in which that basic set of shapes are so compelling at every angle. Add to that, all the detail discussed here - the deco style, the white color and new-but-familiar livery, those interacting shapes, the introduction of qualities that expanded on original intentions (like the plans available that had "skin transparent to energy" notations which the new glowy deflector fits with). It is the best of practical, believable engineering made beautiful. And I think there's something to say about how well it honored the years of experience fans had "living in/with" the original from the show. That's a thing the JJ movies don't understand - we don't merely want sci fi action set in a Trek universe. We love *the ship*, so since this design update honored it and made everything beautiful and elegant (feeling like Goldsmith's music flowed over every new sweeping form), it was a "welcome home" to fans. And a final note: I always assumed that rec room was somewhere in the 2ndary because of its height. Hmm.
I do love the Refit and the -A wish we had seen them more before they had to die. :-( ..... Andrew is so to the point with his answers.... why did you do xyz.... answer "yessss" lol Never understood the logic for Canceling Phase 2 because of the release of Star Wars at the theater. Phase 2 was set for television and would not have have been competing with Star Wars or Battle Star Galatica or Buck Rogers. The later 2 which also came out within a couple years of Star Wars and did quit well at the Theater and on TV. Just about anything sci-fi was getting attention during the late 70's early 80's. Think they dropped the ball not going forward with phase 2 but we will never know. The reason I loved it and the TOS version is because both remind me of the Tall Sailing Frigates of the 17-1800's...... Great Job Andrew
I never realised that the recreation room was supposed to be in the saucer section. I always thought it was part of the engineering hull. It clearly would not fit into the saucer.
This is one of my favorites of all time
30:40 I don’t know if I answered it on the original video, but I actually prefer the Enterprise-D because that ship had “eyes” in the same way KITT (Knight Rider) or the Cylons had “eyes”. Maybe if this design had a dorsal phaser strip it would be my favourite as well.
by paint applications - two different methods - Aztecing is done by paint masks and pearls and iridescents - Paneling is done by masking tape and tinting the BASE hull color darker or lighter.
I LOVE the Enterprise refit for the movie she surpirve A Big hand to Andrew Probert
Its the best design of the Enterprise to me beacuase of how futuristic and interesting the design is
Being an 80s kid, I grew up with TNG, but I remember the first star trek I had ever seen (Errand of Mercy). The refit is a very nice upgrade to the TOS Enterprise, but the E-D was grand. Big sweeping curves, lots of windows, bright engines suggesting vast power. Being an aviation enthusiast, I would find a good analogue in parking a P-51 next to a F-22. The F-22 just has a more unified look, blended into one rather than parts stuck together.
The re-design brought the ship upto date. that what impressed me about the new enterprise design .
Class act! The man & the design
This is my favorite Star Trek ship, by far, but I'd probably still struggle to explain why in a satisfactory way!
I think part of it is that the shape is classic. It _is_ the Enterprise, plain and simple. Almost all other Federation ships are based on this basic shape, and this particular version of the Constitution class just happens to look great from any angle, and no matter which direction it's moving in.
The word that always comes to mind when I think about this design is 'elegant'. To expand on that a bit...I think certain parts of it (the nacelle pylons, for instance) look just a little bit delicate from certain angles--and when I say 'delicate', I mean that in a positive way! Maybe it reminds me of the masts on a sailing vessel, or something like that. It's something that feels less and less present in Federation ship designs as time goes on, eventually leading to things like the Intrepid class which, despite being another design I adore, doesn't feel very delicate at all.
Totally agree. That 'elegance' is what makes it feel like a ship, and a space ship at that, not just a modified version of a rocket or earthbound battlewagon; calling back to the age of sail. It helps you imagine that in building a Starship, humanity is using technology and structures in ways both new, and elegantly simple; structures in space don't need to look conventionally sturdy without the need to hold up in gravity.
Seems to me the more they try to sleek up the basic design, in all the stuff post-Next Generation and in the J.J. Abrams redux movies, blending the hull components together and subjecting the design to some idea of conventional streamlining, the farther they get from that straightforward functional aesthetic. Why build the ship as a separate disc and hull, for example, if they just get smoothed back together again?
another great episode. was great seeing AP.
Ok...I will preface by saying that the Enterprise D IS my favorite design. I think though I can understand why some people don't like it as much, and from what I gathered it was because the proportion of the saucer section of the D is quite large in comparison to the engineering hull. But, this isn't a discussion on the D.
So I will elaborate on the things I love and don't love about the refit/A design.
First, there's a great aesthetic to the swept back pylons coming from the strongback of the engineering hull. This evokes a feeling as if it's a flying animal, wings outstretched, about to push down for acceleration, as birds and other flying animals do.
Second, the redesign of the overall shape of the engineering hull gives the ship more of an organic feel to it. It gives it a sense of strength (which is probably why the top of engineering was called the strongback) and power. Also, when looking at animals that glide, fly, or swim, they generally have that type of shape to them. Even though aerodynamics don't apply in a vacuum, the mind associates these things with flight.
Next, the neck proportions and shape fit perfectly with the overall design of the ship, contributing to the flying animal theme that I see.
The nacelles are where the Art Deco/50's automobile styling comes out strong. The design of the flux chiller grills, bussard collectors, etc, all evoke the straight line and 90 degree angles of art deco design, while the shape of the nacelles give off that "tailfins" look of cars like the '57 Chevy and such.
Another thing that I think may subconsciously make people like this design, is that there is a lot of callbacks to either straight lines or circles. For example, most of the windows are circular, along with the impulse crystal, the deflector dish, docking ports, and of course, the saucer itself. When looking straight on at either port or starboard, the saucer becomes a rectangle that almost runs in line with the lines of the flux chiller grills and the bussard collectors.
Overall, the shape of the refit is very flowing, considering you're basically dealing with a lot of attached parts sticking out from each other. Having the nacelles above the plane of the saucer gives it the feel of having bigger "wings" about to flap, and most animals with larger wings tend to give the impression of a more powerful hunting bird. It also calls to mind how when building a hot rod, it made sense to jack the back of the car up and put a higher suspension to add larger tires. It made the car look fast, and I think that's what is going on here as well.
Comparative to the D though, the D looks more like an aquatic creature...like a manta, with being wider, and having smaller "wings", when looking at the nacelles and pylons. The oval shapes that dominate the design also add to the aquatic creature feel, and I think most people don't realize that.
I could go on and on about both of these ships, so, if you'd want more insight on my opinions on the design as a fan (with no design experience whatsoever), I'll be happy to provide.
kronos6948 wonderfully worded and thought-out statement! I agree and basically every respect!
Interesting allegories with animal shapes. I always look at the NCC 1701 Refit as a powerful Mustang coupe with the grille in the nacelles, the rear fin in the rar of the nacelles, the aggressive forward slant of the grille to the dominating saucer section and photon torpedo bay, yet the curvaceous body and rear fin evoking the curves of the saucer, secondary hull and swept back nacelle pylons. The 1701 Refit looked like a muscle sports car. A Mustang. Whereas a Voyager or even some angles on the "D" are reminiscent of a Corvette Stingray, based off a fast aquatic predator.
It’s simply just gorgeous, that’s why it is for so many of us, our favorite design.
The 1701 refit is my second favorite Enterprise design, right behind the 1701-D. I think the refit is a sleeker, more refined version of the already iconic Matt Jefferies original design -- with a significant amount of attention to detail. IMHO, I think the design is extremely well balanced, with the proportions between the warp nacelles and pylons, secondary hull, neck, and saucer section, creating a very aesthetically pleasing starship. My only gripe is there are no red bussard collectors and the front of the warp nacelles (a hallmark of Starfleet ship designs).
Watching this Video made me notice the black cut-out in the back of the neck a bit more - that is a curious bit - it looks rather like a tiny shuttle bay door or possibly armour.
Oh and with apologies to Andrew - I like the "United Federation of Planets" built into the pennant very much. You could see that fine if in formation flight or in space dock - something much more likely than landing the saucer would be.
Also as has been mentioned before it does help the work crews to have the ship detail written on her so they don't accidentally start working on the wrong ship when in a busy space dock.
I do like the red pin striping in general - but I'm a little unsure if it's like it on the top or lower surface of the saucer so much - but around the thrusters and phasers and engine vents where it has some in some places I'd be fine with a little more of that.
I notice there is quite a lot of that of the Battle Star Galactica Vipers too - though they likely got it off the stripes on the X-Wings they were so clearly inspired by.
As for the rec - room I'm embarrassed to admit that I never even noticed it was in the saucer - I always thought it was in the lower side of the engineering hull (mirroring the Garden area you can see through the side hull windows).
But as I've said in the comments on these vids before I tend to pay more attention to the outside than the insides of the ships.
If it makes any difference I'd say to Andrew he is 3rd or 4th on the list of people who do this sort of thing who's names I heard in order.
"Watching this Video made me notice the black cut-out in the back of the neck a bit more - that is a curious bit - it looks rather like a tiny shuttle bay door or possibly armour."
In the original David Kimble inked blueprints (and poster) that came out when TMP did, those are torpedo launcher exhaust vents.
For me, this is THE Enterprise. The original, Matt Jefferies design from TOS is terrific, but due to the fact that, at its inception, they simply didn't know what all the ship could/would do, it's a little soft on some of the "real-world" details that the Refit realized, specifically, the phaser turrets and photon torpedo launchers, the RCS thrusters, and docking ports. Stylistically, I love the swept back nacelle pylons, the recessed deflector dish, and the details of the nacelles, themselves. I really can't think of any part of the ship that I don't like. The only nit I could pick would be the lack of an aft torpedo launcher, but that's really it. Well, that and the impossible Rec Room...but that ship has sailed, as it were. ;-)
I agree with almost everything you have said except about the 1701-A. Except for the reveal and closing of ST:IV the Voyage home, Shatner and the studio went full cliche and kinda took a dump on the "A". I mean, the turbo lift tube showing over 60 decks... why insult your audience for a cheap rocket boot gag that ends up not being well realized anyway ?
The refit is such an improvement over the original because of the fact it was movie quality. I must admit that I really like the remastered TOS Enterprise because of the improvements in the look. That said the refit appears to be part of a design philosophy (See Reliant in Wrath of Khan) throughout Star Fleet.
Also, love it or hate it Star Trek the Movie showcased the design like no other movie has before or since.
The color scheme is fantastic
The TMP version seemed like, " we gotta get this ship running for this crisis... no time for the standard paint scheme" Whereas TWOK and TSFS was more " now we can have her in her standard Starfleet pale blue paint"
In my mind, this particular ship was what the TOS could have been.. and ultimately did become. There is not an inch of wasted space, superfluous shinies, or arbitrary gizmos here or there. Every part of this ship has function and purpose.. you just know it does something.
I only watched the movies after I had been watching TNG for a bit.. seeing this ship made me appreciate what Star Trek was and caused me to go back further and watch the original series.
In any case, this is an absolutely beautiful vessel and, to me, will always be the pinnacle of Starfleet design from which all future designs drew inspiration.
Is always great to hear from Mr. Probert...!! ❤
Such a cool intro rendering!
Re watching years later. Great interview! Question that's bugging me...the studio model was made vaccumformed plastic how did they get the guidelines in the saucer and secondary hull? Masking?
The most beautiful ship of all time.
Focusing on the look of the ship. In essence the refit hit that sweet spot where it managed to keep all of the aesthetics that worked from the ToS version while also improving the components that were overlooked (phaser coverage) or clearly dated (deflector dish). It's instantly recognizable and combines beauty with function. Most importantly the redesign did enough without going overboard.
A good few comparisons would be the Excelsior, Galaxy class, and the DS9 Defiant.
While I love the Excelsior, it's the prime example of inconsistent aesthetic. Smoothe and curvy in parts and jagged 90 degree angles in others, then there's that paper thin part of the drive section holding the nacelles.
The galaxy class, is a beautiful consistent looking ship and my intro to the series. That said, with all of the curves and ovoid shapes particularly around the main deflector, the ship isn't instantly recognizable to a newcomer to the series as something built by humans.
The Defiant is a tough little ship and I love everything about it but at the end of the day it's purely utilitarian and not the kind of ship that screams work of art like the other hero ships.
The Prometheus and Akira classes also hit the sweet spot in aesthetic which I imagine is one of the reasons both of those classes are so popular.
i am doing the orbital office complex in sketchup... and the drydock is done... very channel has been an immense help
watching this, i'm as happy as you wre filming
"The most popular Enterprise, loved by the fans." Andrew Probert.
I agree but it's the least seen in other areas (like in TNG when they bring out older style ships or in video games). Why is that?
As far as why I like the refit over all other iterations of the N.C.C. 1701 Enterprise is because it looks the most realistic...HA! Anyways, I think it looks the best because it's fantastically detailed, the swept back and taper look of the pylons from smaller at the secondary hull to larger at the warp nacelles, a forward facing dual torpedo launcher with the rectangular ports, the shuttle bay, just every aspect, in my opinion, looks better. My favorite federation ship from all the movies would be the 1864, favorite klingon ship is the bird of prey, favorite from television series is the klingon vor'cha...yeah, that about covers it. I'm not a big fan of federation or any other ships portrayed in the television series with exceptions being the Akira class and maybe one or two others.
Thanks for the great episode!
Andrew's design brought a sense of perfect proportion to all the key elements of the ship, something sorely lacking in the original design.
It's a perfect design, feminine vibe, elegant seafaring ocean liner in space displaying grace and power effortlessly without ego or attitude. She just is.....😃
Can't fault it Probert.. Shes an absolute beauty..
I’d like to see this type of refit for newer ships
My favorite is the D.
But this is such an amazing enterprise. It still feel as the Matt Jeffrey design, it feel the same ship (different then JJ ship). How ever it feel modern, slick, an art piece.
🖖😉👍Very well and very nicely done indeed and very well informatively explained and executed as well 👌.
I really wish this version of the enterprise actually had more adventures they destroyed it every time it was on screen. It never past beyond the bounds of the federation its beautiful
What I like about The Motion Picture's version of the Enterprise is that is has a clean look to it. The exterior change wasn't too noticeable in 1979 because it had been a while since we have seen the model on tv.
Ye Gods this ship is beautiful...
I love the original colors. The pearlescent paint makes it look 3 dimensional, yet smooth and incredibly advanced. The paint scheme from the later films feels very flat in comparison. When I think of beauty shots, it's the drydock scenes, or warping from Earth in 1 & 2. Not warping from Spacedock in Star Trek 6. Design-wise it is unique, no colored bussed collectors (the B had the blue slits) rectangular warp nacelles, very cool, soft coloring with intermittent red highlights. those are all components that contribute to its beauty. Unique, but not a crazy departure like the McQuarrie concept which doesn't feel very "Star Trek."
The Refit Constitution is my 2nd favorite design. The Enterprise A in my opinion looks better than just the refit. However my #1 is another Andrew Probert ship. The Galaxy Class is by far the best Starship of all time in my opinion.
Amazing design and I really enjoyed it for the TOS generation but I like the Enterprise D the best even over the E-E. The photon launchers made it look more like a combat capable ship over the Constitution class.
Far superior design to all others. Subtle. Detailed. Elegant. Simple.
THE DEFINITIVE version.
I personally think the reason that it is the most loved is that it was a modernisation without taken away from the origonal structure that was so loved.
If you were to take the refit vs JJ's as they are both different interpations of the origonal. JJ's looks like the enterpise has been eating some heavy calroires as its ridiculous big but the refit was an elegant redesign in comparsion.
For the NCC-1701-A, the end result is greater than the sum of its parts.
Getting rid of the goofy looking 1960s elements from TOS, like the campy satellite communications dish where the deflector is now, the spinny-Boussard collectors on the front of the warp nacelles, and just getting rid of all the strange tube-geometry (Nacelles, torpedo bay) and replacing them with a cooler, Art Deco design improved its aspect-silhouette dramatically.
The additions of angular (but still beveled) architecture gives a look that is both futuristic and rugged.
The Aztec patterning reminds me a lot of the metallic hulls of real world ships and looks so much better than the bright white or matte-grey texturing on Trek ships from other eras. This works wonders even in close-up shots on the big screen for conveying both lighting and motion (and battle damage, like in Wrath of Khan and Search for Spock). By comparison, I never liked the texturing on the TNG era ships and especially not the Galaxy class style, because it looks like a very bumpy toy/model and lacks that the "field of depth" effect the refit's texture offers. (it could be worse as the plastic-fake look of Abrams' 'USS iPod' and subsequent STD designs proved)
Finally, the lights on the Enterprise Refit model avoids committing one of my pet peeve cardinal sins of Sci-Fi: Extraneous internal lighting. (aka "just slap some blinky lights and call it sci-fi")
All of the Enterprise Refit's lights and trimming seem to serve a sensible purpose beyond just looking nice or "because sci-fi".
The blinking lights on the saucer are clearly akin to navigation lights on real world ships and the placard lighting obviously serves the purpose for clear identification of which ship it is and who owns it. (there are multiple other small identification lights, showing other parts of the ship as a United Federation of Planets vessel, which is both honest and in line with Star Fleet's ideals)
If pressed, I'd say the most gratuitous of these is the deflector dish's color, but the deep blue light completes the look so well amidst everything else by conveying a sense that when you see it lit up, you know the ship is operational and ready for action. (something that later era Trek models get right, and it all started here with the Enterprise Refit)
Because of all this, the Enterprise Refit doesn't look like a toy; it looks like something you could actually live and work in because in both its aspect and detail, It has the characteristic personality of a ship first and foremost. The only model of comparable quality from Trek, IMO, is its contemporary Miranda class model, the USS Reliant, and for the same reasons. Despite its unconventional design, it too screams "I AM A SHIP" rather than "I am a blinky model/action figure".
These two ships constitute some of my favorite looking fictional vessels of any kind for that reason, and I'm damned glad that I was around to see them and not just the fake-looking blinger-crap Trek has been putting out for the past 13 years or so.
It's interesting about the "most realistic" comment. Of course it's purely subjective, but perhaps this is because the overall aesthetic of the TMP Enterprise evokes the kind of engineering one sees in real-life production-built machines. Compare this to the sweeping, flowing nacelle booms of the TNG Enterprise, which evokes - to me at least - more the kind of machines one sees in concept art or one-off proof-of-concept machines or cars.
The Refit is more sensible as far as structure goes, it is stronger than before. It is yacht like, it has smooth long curves showing it isn't just a straight metal tube, this implies a more luxurious feature. Even the cut-away at the back is reminiscent of a luxury yacht. My only concern over the design is that the neck is too thin and vulnerable. I would atleast double it's thickness. Vulnerable places need more plating. I think the blue on forward leading edges implies more protection but there is another reason to have two color layers in paint: it shows damage better. Ballistic targets do the same thing only with bright green over fluorescent orange, every ping shows a large orange spot where the damage is. This will work to help repair and maintenance droids could easily spot small damage from sand and gravel sized damage.
A fantastic video.
Very awesome video.
Chrome/Bronze details? Replacements for SOME decals/pinstripes?
Refit is the best! it seems realistically could be built smooth but sharp edges it just make sense in the way it should function.
It looks like Scotty got carried away with the refit to only keep the basic superstructure of the hull and add to it. Designing the best ship you can while doing a refit makes sense with all the new equipment you could find available. The phase 2 looks more realistic with more of the original ship remaining intact. I'm sure in the storyline explaining that most ships were moth balled and replaced with the newer design of ship because they almost were a new ship after the refit. I've thought up one that's the Phase 2 with the blue navigational deflector and warp nacelles of the Enterprise subclass and made out of 5 different class of Constitution variants which became an alternate class of ship constructed at a remote shipyard in the outer portion of Star fleet territory. I'd like to see the 1986 Dreadnought class from the novel used in a good fan film with swept back warp nacelle pylons and a blue navigational deflector like the Enterprise subclass as well a secondary hull that looks similar. Section 31 should be the only one using it with the cloaking device design taken from the Romulun D-7 by Kirk and crew. 👋
Does a ship refit mean you change the registry? I understand if a new ship is made from the ground up and continuing the line then changing the registery to the A. Or was because it had such a large refit, for all intensive purposes is a new ship?
The registry wasn't changed. The NCC-1701-A was completely different ship with the same name and "refit" design. The successor to the 1701 after it was destroyed.
Andrew Also Gave Us The Wonderful Airwolf
"Most realistic" is a million little things. It would be impossible to list them all.
Enterprise - A is the King
loved the ship before,but the refit killed it
27:58 "Have they met Star Trek fans?" 🤣🤣🤣
Realistic it looks the most realistic I've heard that in my entire life about the motion picture era Enterprise and the elaborate for you Mr Probert and this is for you as well Sam and Captain foli you guys ever read this I think I can summarize it for you what makes this design the most realistic is it's Art Deco expression and Naval structural depth it just works within styling language
The lines were all fully realized just like on a car just like on a skyscraper the original series Enterprise is a Timeless classic design as this is a classic design but the original ship left a lot to be desired it was maybe too simple to plane not enough visual tension maybe just a little too much visual release
With it swept back pylons with its Aztec with the connective points from where the saucer the neck the Engineering Hall All Connect have a concentric relationship with each other it creates a realistic design realistic in the fact that well a real space ship a Starship could look like this because every angle seems to have been given care and even if we don't know what it is it looks advanced it looks profound An Elegant lady an elegant woman it may not have the organic flares of the original it may not have the elliptical sculpted organic lines of the Galaxy Glass Enterprise D from TNG B compressed elliptical and angular shapes of the e or even 30 second century Salvador Dali style Starships LOL.
But that's where I think the rubric Falls that's where I think the rationale comes from fan saying it's the most realistic I think you could have gone a little bit further or dialed it back a little bit more and it would have worked given the original series ships some of this vessels design cues which the Disco price some people have said that's what it really reflects but it's a nice balance for a cinematic audiences imaginations even if the fashion and Technology evolves differently for the visual Touchstone on the Cinematic screen we gazed into the future and saw the wonder that would be
NOTE!!!!!!!! Real quick for all my fellow trekkies and Mr Probert and Sam and folly if I can't remember to comment on it anywhere else I'm just going to go ahead and say it here I do not believe this vessel does not have a torpedo launchers that is such a technical oversight I would never as a Starfleet Admiral ever let this damn thing out without an apt Photon torpedo launcher even if it's one I would have multiple it's such a design oversight I don't accept it no standing warship or vessel with any armaments have ever had no weapon systems of any Merit at the ass end there's just no way you want this thing to be considered the flagship and it can't fire a photon torpedo afterwards that's insanity I would never let it leave space dock without at least two Photon torpedo launchers if someone said oh it doesn't have a rear firing torpedo launcher I would say oh I want 2 installed by Tuesday morning end of story LOL
TMP Enterprise is the epitome of Star Trek ship design. Even TNG Enterprise doesn't capture peoples' imaginations to the degree that TMP Enterprise captures it.
I didn't like the nacelles because they have a look that always makes me think of the 80s. Not sure why but this always bugged me. Other than that it's a great ship
Prettiest Enterprise ever!
Why? It seems sturdy, realistic e streamlined.
What I don't like... Rec Room. In TAS we saw that the Enterprise had already a sort of "holodeck", it had to be included in this version
I'm a Naval Architect.
Ships are a member of the crew.
TMP shows it in a brilliant way.
Other Enterprises seems exagerations of the concept
I love the Enterprise Refit model. It's just perfect the way it is. Incredible work! And I believe that the 2009 model used in the new Star Trek movies does not deliver the same presence and attitude. The curved pylons of the 2009 model, in my opinion, are a design crime... I would definitely prefer having the Refit in the 2009 movie instead the one they used.
I miss the days when Star Trek creators cared about starship designs. We've lost that with new Trek. Compare this ship to the new Janeway class and you see how bad it is. Star Trek inspired so many people through these ships. There's nothing inspiring about modern Trek ships. I wish we could convince them you can have respect for what's come while creating brand new stories.
If more people would follow the line of site rule and the rule of pairs we would have so much better consistency in Star Trek. All Form follows function so if you see these rules as facilitating the function of the warp drive system, then one cannot help but come to this sort of configuration. Here are the rules
1. the living section must be able to separate from the engineering section for safety.
2.The warp nacelles need to work in random and be in line of site of one another to create a warp bubble.
3. Warp nacelles work in pairs to create a war- bubble.
Given this you would invariable com to a configuration like the enterprise comprised of a dis or other shape with two tubular projections 2 above and one below.
So, given that warp speeds need this sort of configuration to work it makes sense that other alien FTL capable races would also have pairs of warp nacelles. Of course there are other solutions like the Vulcan ring system and the romulan Hull cavity design still utilizing a pair of nacelles. There may also be a sphere system. But all of the above have some sort of space in the middle where the warp bubble is formed.
So really it’s a form follows function design scheme. When one sees ships breaking these rules it ruins the continuity. I could see having 3 nacelles but only as a redundant nacell should one be destroyed. So odd number nacelles just don’t work.
These rules give reason to the brand look of Star Trek ships and that’s just the truth no matter what has been erroneously canonized by lazy designers and designers wishing to make ships look more like Star Wars.