This might be a case of, “we’ve played that deck, we know what it does, it’s best to hate it out.” Which I find very unlikely due to Edgar buuuut that’s just what I think it might be.
He got mega targeted. When the morph deck guy bounced some worthless Minotaur back to his hand instead of one of the many threatening vampires.... hmmm
He was set back by two boardwipes. Had no cards in hand for a while too. At the midpoint he did not seem like the biggest treat, anf then it was to late.
@@ЄвгенІванченко-т3т The year the eminence precons went out, the Vampire deck was able to 1v3 easily out of the box unless everyone piled on it from the start and without holding anything back. That's how stronger its synergies are, and how powerful Edgar's eminence ability is.
@@armoric I've played it. I know. I had games when it seemed like Edgar is out, and then he still won atrition. The thing is, this deck builds board presense with minimal resourses.
At the end of turn 5, Armen discards to handsize in order to Madness cast Alchemists Greeting. But Armen had a reliquary tower on the field, so they wouldn't have been able to discard it, nor did he have enough mana available to cast it normally.
There was some salt behind the scenes in this game. Why everyone trying to take out Vincent? Some of the plays and attacks just didn't make sense unless you are hating on someone.
@@phyrexian_dude4645 very true. We never know the table talk that occurs but if I was Tim/Kadena I would have had Jan in my sites well before Vincent was dead.
@@gypsieking3280 At least the markov list use some non-precon cards (add more 2cmc vampires, add pw) at that point you cant claim its only a precon. And that commander is OP, some upgrades and you will notice how powerfull eminence is.
Thats what I was thinking! The Edgar deck, precon or not, is still pretty strong compared to the rest of the table. Vincent was fine, but the other two players look like they just bought their decks and sat at their first pod
What is happening this game why does everyone kill the minotaur player? Those precons are all at a higher base level than the average minotaur deck tbh.
@@benjaminking3677 Unfortunately it's almost impossible not to play edgar in a high powered way. The point is that the threat was equally as likely to stem from any other one of them (even Kadena, which IMO was one of the best out the box) as it was from the neheb player. Hating someone out because they weren't playing a precon seems more like poorly reading the table or not accommodating for one player not having a modified precon available. It would probably ruin the experience of that game for me, idk about others.
haven't watched a mtgmudstah game in many months, now i remember why. the threat assessment on these is horrible. i can live with mistakes (even though there are tons in this particular game), but how come literally every game someone gets overly focused while someone else runs away with the game. worse than game knights
Did I miss something? I feel like Jan wouldn't have been able to cast Markov the first time. There was exactly six mana on board and the only way white could be produced was by filtering through Opal Palace
I recently bought the madness deck with Anje and it's so much fun XD. Yesterday i had my engine on the field vs a Breya player. I had: Sire of Insanity, Surly Badgersaur, Bone Miser and Anje on the field lol. So much value. After Sire of Insanity hit the field (he was the last one to enter) the game was simply done. 4 whole turns where my opponent could not do a thing. He was only drawing a land each turn XD Meanwhile i drew cards, discarded em for value and attack with a zombie army in the end
@@DiabloTommaso At least the markov list use some non-precon cards (add more 2cmc vampires, add pw) at that point you cant claim its only a precon. And that commander is OP, some upgrades and you will notice how powerfull eminence is.
3:01 Any particular reason not to cast Kadena? One extra creature + 1 draw for 1 extra mana. Keeping the talisman open was not enough to flip the morph anyway...
I'm at the point where I tend to auto-target Edgar players when they sit down. If they land vamps on curve and start swinging t1-2 I go all in on stopping them.
@@SkellyBobRoss something about Edgar beckons to the saltiest players or something; I have a player in my pod that will constantly scoop if things aren’t going his way, and guess who his main boy is? 😒
I am not certain I agree with who was targeted first but I understand Muddstah's explanation at the end. But I agree with the rest of the commenters on who should have been the target.
@@salvatorestabile5547 1. Edgar isn't that broken compared to a good chunk of other commanders out there. 2. I hardly ever see anyone play Edgar which coinsides with the previous statement. In other words, if Edgar is so broken then how come not a whole lot of ppl play him?
Ok let markow untouched and take care of minotuars. Sorry but i don t agree with you Muddstah. Sure minotaurs are not a precon but they are minotuars so you know overpriced 2 3 most of the time. Meanwhile markov gives you sinergistic board precence at random
@@syndaxatrix I'm not sure unless you could ramp an extra on the next turn with a sol ring cuz I believe Willbender is 2 mana and a land would've landed you with one left after Kadena??
@@howamewsing7311 The morph I played on turn 3 was Ainok Survivalist but I drew Willbender for turn so I waited to play Kadena until turn 5 or 6 when I had 6 mama available
It seems as though Armen skipped summoning sickness twice. Once from activating the Champions tap ability the turn cycle it came back from eldest reborn, then the second time immediately activating the Magus of the Wheel the turn it came in. Didn't really seem to have much effect on the game, but missing the immediate activation of magus is rough.
@@MTGMuddstah That would make sense. I saw Vincent put one in his yard but never saw one in Armens. Maybe it was in the pile he slapped down to Ravenger?
@@MTGMuddstahsan I need to ask you a question, what do you think of the idea of an EDH format that would be known as the Puritan format that shows off the idea of Pioneer legal EDH? I came up with that name, and I thought that you might have an opinion on it?
I'd never leave a 'slightly upgraded' edgar player alive after seeing him ramp like that. I never let him live anyhow. That commander has got some well-deserved hate :D
Games like this just aren't fun to watch, awful threat assessment and then getting run over by Edgar which is obviously the highest value deck at the table.
Watching Tim's play this entire episode made me angry. I have had games like this where for no reason one player just decides your not allowed to play at the table who literally throws away resources on plays that not only just hurt you, but actively put their opponents ahead, like if your your going to act that way, WHY DID I EVEN SIT DOWN TO PLAY. He literally flips a morph creature to kill a creature that was going to be scarified anyway instead of any other target on board and earlier reality shifts a creature that was granting deathtouch to the other minotaurs, which if left would have caused both Jan and Vincent to loss creatures. Also Hazoret's Monument is no where near as powerful as skullclamp especially in a token based deck.
How the fuck do you hate on a fucking Minotaur tribal deck THIS HARD over an Edgar Markov Vampire tribal deck? Vincent must have done so fucking crazy shit to these guys before they started filming!
Not gonna lie, I hate combos in EDH. i understand its part of the game, but it is not a part of the game I like. With that said, I much would have rather watched a game with nothing but combos then have watched this travesty of a game. "Let's just let the Edgar Markov deck build a legion and peg each other, derr." Not very entertaining. But I really miss your Mistform Ultimus deck, MTGMuddstah.
I play a Neheb deck, and let me tell you all: no matter what horrors the other players do, they will hate you and your whole bloodline if you ever make them discard one card.
..what the fuck? What is going on in this game? I know it’s strewn thru the comments but I still gotta say everyone ignores the Edgar and targets the Minotaur tribal? Aight.
God, I'm normally not that much of a whiner, but I stopped watching after they killed Vincent - felt so bad. Let me guess - the Edgar won? Edit: watched it to the end. I'm, like, wow.
Honestly, this was an infuriating game to watch because of how bad some of the plays were. If I were Vincent, from that point on, I would be playing cEDH-level decks if they are going to act like that.
Vincent: exists
Everyone else: must... kill...
I feel like we're missing vital context for what the hell VIncent did before the recording started.
Jesus Christ did Vincent just insult them all before the game started? I've never seen someone targeted down like that by playing minotaurs
Kind of a joke of a game tbh
This might be a case of, “we’ve played that deck, we know what it does, it’s best to hate it out.”
Which I find very unlikely due to Edgar buuuut that’s just what I think it might be.
He was literally playing the weakest deck at the table. He much have slighted someone
Yeah the weakest deck at the table imo, but got bashed like it was cedh somehow.
He got mega targeted. When the morph deck guy bounced some worthless Minotaur back to his hand instead of one of the many threatening vampires.... hmmm
Edgar got ignored and overran everyone, imagine that
When someone taps your cards with their nails take them out!
He was set back by two boardwipes. Had no cards in hand for a while too. At the midpoint he did not seem like the biggest treat, anf then it was to late.
Edgar deck recover from two boardwipes like nothing and shocker he wins...
@@ЄвгенІванченко-т3т The year the eminence precons went out, the Vampire deck was able to 1v3 easily out of the box unless everyone piled on it from the start and without holding anything back. That's how stronger its synergies are, and how powerful Edgar's eminence ability is.
@@armoric I've played it. I know. I had games when it seemed like Edgar is out, and then he still won atrition. The thing is, this deck builds board presense with minimal resourses.
At the end of turn 5, Armen discards to handsize in order to Madness cast Alchemists Greeting. But Armen had a reliquary tower on the field, so they wouldn't have been able to discard it, nor did he have enough mana available to cast it normally.
^^^
Good catch! There was a lot going on around us, so it's easy to chalk this one up to an honest mistake.
@@MTGMuddstah We will let it slide this time...but you guys are on thin ice! ;)
Makes me think that Reliquary is not good for Madness decks in general
@@MTGMuddstah could you also tell us what happened with everyone focusing Vincent for no reason?
me: "oh boy! can't wait to see a sick minotaur deck in action!"
literally everyone else: "no"
edgar markov: "ESPECIALLY no"
I think Vincent murdered their families, judging by how he was treated in this game.
There was some salt behind the scenes in this game. Why everyone trying to take out Vincent? Some of the plays and attacks just didn't make sense unless you are hating on someone.
Muddstah said he was targeted because he was the only "nonprecon". Still seemed egregious when you had a Markov at the table.
@@gypsieking3280 The eyes should had turned on that Edgar with skullclamp on the field, you simply cannot allow that to happen.
@@phyrexian_dude4645 very true. We never know the table talk that occurs but if I was Tim/Kadena I would have had Jan in my sites well before Vincent was dead.
@@gypsieking3280 At least the markov list use some non-precon cards (add more 2cmc vampires, add pw) at that point you cant claim its only a precon. And that commander is OP, some upgrades and you will notice how powerfull eminence is.
Thats what I was thinking! The Edgar deck, precon or not, is still pretty strong compared to the rest of the table. Vincent was fine, but the other two players look like they just bought their decks and sat at their first pod
What is happening this game why does everyone kill the minotaur player? Those precons are all at a higher base level than the average minotaur deck tbh.
These guys couldn't assess their way out of a wet paper bag oh my goodness lol
Angje and Markov are both stronger but I don’t think those particular decks were playing them in such a high powered way.
@@benjaminking3677 Unfortunately it's almost impossible not to play edgar in a high powered way.
The point is that the threat was equally as likely to stem from any other one of them (even Kadena, which IMO was one of the best out the box) as it was from the neheb player.
Hating someone out because they weren't playing a precon seems more like poorly reading the table or not accommodating for one player not having a modified precon available. It would probably ruin the experience of that game for me, idk about others.
haven't watched a mtgmudstah game in many months, now i remember why. the threat assessment on these is horrible. i can live with mistakes (even though there are tons in this particular game), but how come literally every game someone gets overly focused while someone else runs away with the game. worse than game knights
Muddstah saying `the threat assessment was right and doing fun things with Edgar` got me all confused.
It feels like very poor threat assessment this whole game. That or no one has ever played against Edgar before.
I feel like poor threat assesment is a common occurence on this channel
Did Vincent really forget one full turncycle of putting counters on his Mauler? That thing should have been a 5/5 at the start of his third turn.
Is it me or there is no white mana paid when summoning markov. He has 6 mana. Can't pay for opal palace to give a white
Did I miss something? I feel like Jan wouldn't have been able to cast Markov the first time. There was exactly six mana on board and the only way white could be produced was by filtering through Opal Palace
Looks like he's missing white, so he was one mana short as you say.
Aye! My boy Muddstah recording them opening hands! Lol
So weird how the Minotaur deck got so much hate. When there’s a Edgar and morph commander with a seedborn muse on the field
My two favourite vampires (Edgar and Anje) in one game? I love it! 😁
This makes me want to see an Edgar, Anje, Anowon ruin thief, and Rayami 4 vampire showdown game.
Omg yes! 😆
I recently bought the madness deck with Anje and it's so much fun XD. Yesterday i had my engine on the field vs a Breya player.
I had: Sire of Insanity, Surly Badgersaur, Bone Miser and Anje on the field lol. So much value. After Sire of Insanity hit the field (he was the last one to enter) the game was simply done. 4 whole turns where my opponent could not do a thing. He was only drawing a land each turn XD Meanwhile i drew cards, discarded em for value and attack with a zombie army in the end
Damn what did Vincent do to earn all that hate?
Minotaurs op i Guess
Gotta kick em when they're down I guess
He was the only one not using precons... ok i get it but he s using minotaurs xD
@@DiabloTommaso
At least the markov list use some non-precon cards (add more 2cmc vampires, add pw) at that point you cant claim its only a precon. And that commander is OP, some upgrades and you will notice how powerfull eminence is.
3:01 Any particular reason not to cast Kadena? One extra creature + 1 draw for 1 extra mana. Keeping the talisman open was not enough to flip the morph anyway...
Wow either there’s like a vendetta here or the threat assessment of the players on this channel has hit rock bottom
Seems like a spite game.
Love the videos! Around 7:25, the anjes ravager preview was replaced by his commander.
You mean 7:09
5:53 Am I missing something or should he be unable to discard due to Reliquary tower?
How did Jan tap terramorphic expanse for mana.
So jan was just tapping the terramorphic expanse and not searching?
Am I the onpy one who was blown away by the Vincent hatred, when theres literally an edgar player at the same table?
am I just being stupid and not undertsna8dng why the TE and EW was getting taped as colorless mana instead of getting Sac?
There was a "Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth" on the board
I'm so over Edgar, so much free value.
I'm at the point where I tend to auto-target Edgar players when they sit down. If they land vamps on curve and start swinging t1-2 I go all in on stopping them.
@@amethystwyvern Then they get salty when they have 10 4/4s on board and get wiped. XD
@@SkellyBobRoss something about Edgar beckons to the saltiest players or something; I have a player in my pod that will constantly scoop if things aren’t going his way, and guess who his main boy is? 😒
@@CeltiesSin That's my guy too! He comes from competitive pokemon so he doesn't get the casual side of commander.
Umm
Am I missing something or did a terramorphic expanse just get tapped for black mana turn 2?
Edit: and he also tapped opal palace for black lmao.
Tim play a land that made all lands swamps
@@josullivan1033
I had to rewatch it to notice the Urborg. It has been too long since I played
Why was Jan tapping the terramorphic expanse and evolving wilds for mana?
Someone had an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in play. It makes all lands Swamps in addition to their other types
WHAT DID VINCENT DO TO YOU GUYS?!
Goblin intro is absolute gas. A+
shouldnt kindred dominance kill vincents manifest token?
Yes, they missed that at the time.
What does the TSF stand for next to Jan's name?
The Spike Feeders
9:23 Vincent's manifest creature should have died from Kindred Dominance, it has no creature type.
I am not certain I agree with who was targeted first but I understand Muddstah's explanation at the end. But I agree with the rest of the commenters on who should have been the target.
It always feels so good seeing a Edgar Markov deck win games! Definitely a good game
A broken commander wins and that makes you feel good?
@@salvatorestabile5547 1. Edgar isn't that broken compared to a good chunk of other commanders out there. 2. I hardly ever see anyone play Edgar which coinsides with the previous statement. In other words, if Edgar is so broken then how come not a whole lot of ppl play him?
@@Devilish420 edgar has 3578 on edhrec and is the most played mardu commander
@@Devilish420 what Matt said. Edgar is pure value for 0 mana in your command zone. That's broken. Did you not watch how this horrible game played out?
Another awesome video! Could you please send Kadena and Markov lists? Tks!
Jan shouldn't have been able to cast his commander and the vampire before. He used evolving wilds and terramorphic expanse to add mana.
Urborg lets them tap for mana.
@@MTGMuddstah Thank you. I missed that
@@MTGMuddstah I have been watching your channel a long time, and I haven't got many people to play with, could I participate in a duel one day?
How did Jan tap Evolving wilds for mana to cast Edgar
Eminence was a mistake of an ability
Ok let markow untouched and take care of minotuars. Sorry but i don t agree with you Muddstah. Sure minotaurs are not a precon but they are minotuars so you know overpriced 2 3 most of the time. Meanwhile markov gives you sinergistic board precence at random
did you guys discard from Neheb? when he deals damage to a player everyone discards
Seriously what's the reason for so much hate against Vincent. It not being a precon is a dumb reason to hate someone out
Edgar Markov is a BEAST... well not a beast, a vampire but he is STRONG!!
It’s more likely that Jan has telepathic powers and was ‘spite feeding’ the other two players to hate on Vincent.
I like Neheb but no idea how to build him, I did no think that there were enough Minotaurs in the game.
What an amazing opening !!!! I love the super dramatic introduction !!! Rep ya goblin bois and girls !
At 5:54, Armen shouldn't be discarding due to hand size cause he has Reliquary Tower out.
On turn 3, I question why a morph was cast instead of playing Kadena and getting it for free as well as another card
I think that was the turn I drew Willbender and wanted to be able to protect Kadena so I waited until I could protect her
@@syndaxatrix I'm not sure unless you could ramp an extra on the next turn with a sol ring cuz I believe Willbender is 2 mana and a land would've landed you with one left after Kadena??
@@howamewsing7311 The morph I played on turn 3 was Ainok Survivalist but I drew Willbender for turn so I waited to play Kadena until turn 5 or 6 when I had 6 mama available
@@syndaxatrixmakes sense
It seems as though Armen skipped summoning sickness twice. Once from activating the Champions tap ability the turn cycle it came back from eldest reborn, then the second time immediately activating the Magus of the Wheel the turn it came in. Didn't really seem to have much effect on the game, but missing the immediate activation of magus is rough.
Hi there! I believe Anger was in his graveyard by that point.
@@MTGMuddstah That would make sense. I saw Vincent put one in his yard but never saw one in Armens. Maybe it was in the pile he slapped down to Ravenger?
@@HighlanderHipster Yep, I probably could have stood to add that to the narration. My bad!
@@MTGMuddstah No worries buddy. Keep up the good work and thanks for keeping us informed in case something gets missed!
Tapping a terramorphic expanse and evolving wilds for mana? Interesting.
Edit: Urborg
For real lmao
Urborg in play
Urborg is great
@@Ukanlous true mb
I forgot the Urborg was in play and I was like "uh..."
Does anyone remember what it's like to Gather for Magic?
Why the fuck was everyone ignoring Edgar Markov
Was that the Armen san from BT Gamenight?
Yep!
@@MTGMuddstahsan I need to ask you a question, what do you think of the idea of an EDH format that would be known as the Puritan format that shows off the idea of Pioneer legal EDH? I came up with that name, and I thought that you might have an opinion on it?
2:26 Jan tapped a Terramorphic Expanse for black mana
Edit: never mind I forgot about the Urborg
I'd never leave a 'slightly upgraded' edgar player alive after seeing him ramp like that. I never let him live anyhow. That commander has got some well-deserved hate :D
What is even the point of casting a turn 2 taurean mauler if you're just gonna forget all your triggers :/
I thought i was going crazy LOL! I had to read the card again like NO im correct homie missed all his triggers!
Games like this just aren't fun to watch, awful threat assessment and then getting run over by Edgar which is obviously the highest value deck at the table.
Ah gee an Edgar Markov game, I wonder who will win.
I was at this GP! montreal is a lovely place
If I remember correctly, I had played against this Neheb list in a different game and was pretty afraid of it. Not my best threat assessment
Watching Tim's play this entire episode made me angry. I have had games like this where for no reason one player just decides your not allowed to play at the table who literally throws away resources on plays that not only just hurt you, but actively put their opponents ahead, like if your your going to act that way, WHY DID I EVEN SIT DOWN TO PLAY.
He literally flips a morph creature to kill a creature that was going to be scarified anyway instead of any other target on board and earlier reality shifts a creature that was granting deathtouch to the other minotaurs, which if left would have caused both Jan and Vincent to loss creatures.
Also Hazoret's Monument is no where near as powerful as skullclamp especially in a token based deck.
what if every commander had eminence?
Love me some crazy turn 3 big daddy Edgar plays.
How the fuck do you hate on a fucking Minotaur tribal deck THIS HARD over an Edgar Markov Vampire tribal deck? Vincent must have done so fucking crazy shit to these guys before they started filming!
Wow, this is the first time I've watched a EDH video with 4 of my top 5 Commander's in my collection (I have 7 decks)
Why do I get the feeling that Armen is spelt wrong :p
Never seen it spelt like that
I mean, that's how he spells it?
Ehh, I stopped watching this video Vincent was eliminated. What the hell happened before this game?
Not gonna lie, I hate combos in EDH. i understand its part of the game, but it is not a part of the game I like. With that said, I much would have rather watched a game with nothing but combos then have watched this travesty of a game. "Let's just let the Edgar Markov deck build a legion and peg each other, derr." Not very entertaining. But I really miss your Mistform Ultimus deck, MTGMuddstah.
Is slough really pronounced sloo? I always say it as sloff lol
I believe so. I've been corrected several times in the past for saying it in a similar fashion to how you wrote.
I feel a cringe whenever a player nail taps another player's cards.
Tapping terramorphic expanse and evolving wilds for any color of mana looks pretty legit xD
Urborg was out
@@MTGMuddstah oh my bad, didn't notice haha
You should send us the decklists. They are always interesting
A little mistake in editing: you showed Anje instead of her ravager:)
Good catch! Sorry about that.
@@MTGMuddstah no problem! Thanks for the work you do for us
I call BS. Vincent might have been strong, but not really. Meanwhile, ignoring an Edgar Markov deck is dumb and they got what they got.
wow .... so much salt on vincent .....
That's what Commander is all about.
jesus...why all the hate for sir vincent?
I play a Neheb deck, and let me tell you all: no matter what horrors the other players do, they will hate you and your whole bloodline if you ever make them discard one card.
The only good thing about this game is that it stands as an example of how to threat assess like a potato.
He discard alchemists greeting because he has too many cards in hand and has a reliquary tower?
Vincent, pronounced Veysow
Michael Jan vincent
Amren can't discard alchemist greeting for madness due to hands size reliquary tower he has
Poor vincent got bullied the whole game lol
More underrated commanders pleeease ...
On T2 Jan laid down Terramorphic Expanse tapped that and Opal palace to cast Cordial Vampire. That wouldn't have worked.
yes it does, there was a urborg tomb of yawgmoth on the field. all lands are als swamps
Cool
..what the fuck? What is going on in this game? I know it’s strewn thru the comments but I still gotta say everyone ignores the Edgar and targets the Minotaur tribal? Aight.
The kindred dominance should've destroyed the manifest. Minor play mistake
God, I'm normally not that much of a whiner, but I stopped watching after they killed Vincent - felt so bad. Let me guess - the Edgar won?
Edit: watched it to the end. I'm, like, wow.
Poor Vincent
Fanatic of Mogis is lookin kinda sus. . .
I despise edgar. It's just not a fun deck to play against and honestly should have been the target
Minataurs are the bomb
Please show us some more vampire action!
It's always willbender, lol
Markov control
This game is a classic example of terrible threat assessment.
Honestly, this was an infuriating game to watch because of how bad some of the plays were. If I were Vincent, from that point on, I would be playing cEDH-level decks if they are going to act like that.