Those tutors were posturing, and that's it. English isn't my first language, I was taught received pronunciation in school, but I understand you perfectly. There's just no reason they shouldn't be able to understand what you're saying, short of entitlement and rudeness.
same here. English isn't my first language (although I have been speaking it for 15+ years and don't have an accent at all) and I understood everything perfectly. Insane to me how other british people might try and make it out like she isn't speaking clearly :/
As a northern working-class person trying to enter the theatre industry, the classism in this country is staggering. Until a few years ago, I never truly realised how much of an advantage private education gives you. I didn’t even go to a high ranking university, but I remember stressing over what my family wore to my graduation as they hadn’t been to one before and I didn’t want everyone to look out of place. I struggled with my background for a long time, but now I embrace it as part of my identity. Thank you for this video! ❤️
I was "getting a job for life" in a northern steel-town as instructed at the steal-werks. The problem started when I went to a motorcycle rally in Holland aged 19. Lou Reeds Lyrics - "when you are growing up in a small town, and you're having a nervous breakdown, because you think you'll never escape it, yourself or the place that you live" became prescient. I fucked off to New Zealand with my life partner, ended up working with people who were world class. The UK is mired by its death sentence heritage.
As a member (Class. Arch. DPhil) of your old department I think this is an extremely important testament of the student experience that I think all who teach at Oxford should watch. I've advocated this video in the Classics department Town Hall meeting this morning, so you might see a few new subscribers coming from Classics, but I'll also do it at any opportunities I get in Archaeology too. Keep up the good work, and good luck in the future - do say hi if you're ever in the department, (I sit opposite Gonzalo).
Oh Rosie: I just wish I could hug you. Most of us, my children included, attend state schools and it is imperative the Oxford and the likes appreciate this and make their initiation into the system integrated and reflective of what state school students are used to in their lives. Widening Access is wonderful, but with that widening access, awareness of the majority of the populations experiences need to come with it. You KNOW how proud of you we are and it wouldn’t have mattered to us what background you came from just like we adore Mani and the likes who come from a more privileged background. Thank you as well for being open and honest about the drugs scene as it is crucial for parents to prepare their children for how to deal with these things as they go into their independent lives.
there are a lot of good things about experiencing something very different and Rosie has said how she loves the culture eg being confident in your debating. we cant make everything adapt to every possible circumstance. its like going to France and saying you want them to not have circular rolled pillows, and insist they prepare you bacon and eggs for breakfast. Its called getting experience and yes it will be harder but if you want a very high standard of education you have to expect that Oxford is a follow on from private school and to prepare for it. You always remember how you were stretched in life and its good for your character to a large extent.
I used to believe in meritocracy but these institutions are just inherently classist… the number of smart kids feeling like they’re not enough purely because they objectively lacked opportunities their better off peers had… And it’s all so subtle! Like the expected knowledge of languages or dining rules. Your video was very eye opening and I appreciate your honesty so much!
Your honest story reminded me of my master's course days. I studied at a graduate school where students came from wealthier families compared to my undergraduate school, and some of my fellow students had high-brand bags while I used a cheap backpack. I often felt social-class gap as you did, and was surprised how they looked confident and positive all the time. But to be fair, they didn't look down on me because of my (relative) poverty. Rosie, you proved that even students from not-so-wealthy backgrounds can aspire and achieve extremely high! You are a great role model for many people all around the world.
I work in finance in London, and I'm from Yorkshire with quite a strong accent, went to state school and a non-Russel group uni. I've been at my current place a number of years now and it's crazy to see how new graduates that went to private schools, top unis and are generally from wealth families can just click with the firm Partners straight away because they're all from this background. I know my stuff and I work my arse off, but I could never have the conversations that these new grads are having with senior management and clients, getting pally and are generally on the firm radar from day 1.
I understand and relate to you. Originally from Australia, I graduated at Sydney Uni (top uni in Aus) and obtained a graduate role at KPMG. However growing up in lower demographic area in the South West Sydney - I was amazed and perplexed how others ‘schmoozed’/‘socialised’ so well about skiing in NZ/Japan, travelling Europe and talking about where they lived in the North Shore of sydney. I could never relate, and it was difficult to befriend them. Fast forward 13 years later - now working and living in London at an American IB in Finance, I can say from the beauty of hindsight is - to own your journey and be proud of it. It may seem difficult now, but stay true and consistent to your work ethic - because at the end of the day hard work will never be ignored and will be rewarded. And never give up your search for what you deserve - just like you have done to pursue your role at EY. Being from a grass roots background can be advantageous - you have the ability to see people in a different lense and understand the journey they have been. You will be able to bring this to light in hiring conversations in your team - and when the time comes, uplift others who have fought for their rightful place to deserve a role in that profession too.
I've seen this as well although from the other side - I went to private school & oxbridge and I've noticed that, even when I'm talking to people who aren't from that background, I get a lot of extra respect and credibility purely from the RP accent and articulate speech. I work in a tech company, so you'd expect it to be quite meritocratic or even cynical about traditional privilege, but even here I see it; I have a peer with a thick Northern accent, who to be perfectly frank works a lot harder than me and is just as naturally talented, but whereas he is continually having to prove himself, I seem to encounter only open doors...
Watching with interest as a fellow state school kid who went to Oxford (matriculated 2002 so a long time before you!) I relate to a lot of what you’ve said, although I think it helped that I went to one of the less traditional colleges and had a friendship group that included a couple of fellow state school kids (including one who is now my husband) and some private school people who were pretty down to earth. That said, I went to one of their houses once and was gobsmacked at the full chandelier in the dining room. She didn’t really get my shock, because, “duh! It’s a dining room!” 🤣 Also struggled with certain tutors who didn’t understand the difference between the students who had been trained their whole lives for this and the ones like me who had the potential and ability but needed a bit more help, and being made to feel useless wasn’t exactly helpful! Thankfully there were only ever a couple of tutors who were like that.
Very true, what you said about state schools unfortunately. Teachers always making it clear your raising your hand is a major inconvenience & a bother to them, lack of interest & even clear annoyance at your stepping into their monologue - and then kids leave thinking _that'_s what learning's supposed to be. Personal experience sadly. Awful, but with the way teachers at state schools are continually being underpaid you can hardly expect any better. You must've worked like mad to get yourself where you are. Very inspiring :)
This is why you should never vote Labour. The “widening participation” incentive under Blair wasn’t thought through - yes, we have more people from working class backgrounds going to university (a good thing), but instead of doing what they should have done (provide more scholarships for underprivileged schools, professionalised teaching, etc), what they did was to lower the standards for everyone. So now we have more people than ever going to university, with lower entry requirements, massive grade inflation (because students see themselves as customers who can barter for better grades), and low job prospects at the end of it. Degrees have lost their value. On top of that, Labour are also intent on doing away with grammar schools. These are the best schools around, especially for working class kids. Again, instead of getting rid of them, we need more scholarships and bursaries or fee waivers so that smart working class kids can benefit from all these schools have to offer. I’m working class and my parents didn’t have the opportunity to go to good schools, yet they pushed me to work hard and get into a grammar. I’m so grateful they did.
@@ohwellwhateverr Your comments certainly strike a note with me. I was born in 1935 into a working class family in west Cumberland. None of my family had been to University, although one of our next-door neighbour's boys had - he studied Mining Engineering at King's College Durham, as it then was, and later became the manager of a [ by then State-owned ] coal mine. Having myself passed my " 11 plus " exam in 1946 I went then to a newly formed State Grammar School based on an older private secondary school of good reputation which had been fee-paying. The year 1946 schools were implemented by the new Labour Government of Clement Attlee and were completely free; their structure had been based on a previous government study known as the Beveridge Report which recognized that after WW2 the citizens of the UK would demand some form or reward after 6 years of war. The new schools accepted only students of higher academic abilities, measured by the " 11 plus " exam. About 20% of all students passed that exam. My academic year was the first to take the new GCE exams in 1951. In 1954 having passed 7 O-levels, 3 A-levels and one S level put me in a group representing about 5% of the student population. I went on to study Engineering at a redbrick university, graduating in 1957. In those days the university student population was 3000 ; it is now ten times that. Places in the Halls of Residence were very limited, and most of the student body lived in ' digs ' provided by the good citizens of the city. After I graduated there was the problem on compulsory military service for males. Deferment was easy to obtain if one were employed in some high-tech job, or, as in my case following an engineering apprenticeship tailored to the needs of university graduates. Looking back now, I never ever considered applying to OXBRIDGE [ actually neither had a good reputation in the engineering community, and as a result in the profession there were few Oxford men [ they were ALL men ], and more Cambridge men who tended to stick together in self-promoting groups ] knowing instinctively that I would be and feel out of place, despite the fact that I [ thanks to my mother's insistence ] grew up speaking a middle-class form of English, with only a trace of a NORTHCOONTRY accent. This is important because as Henry Higgens says every time an Englishman speaks another Englishman will despise him. Accents, like table manners and good clothes were crucially important as determinants for one's economic future. Indeed in the Navy and Army [ Air Force not so much ] the wrong accent would bar you from holding an officer's commission. Hence my mother's insistence on my not speaking like the local lads. After working then through an education which had continued from age 5 to 24 I was now considered in the job market as a highly desirable quantity, and I never had any problem finding work of my choice. As you point out it was the labour government [ Anthony Crossland ? ] who eventually abolished the state-funded Grammar School system replacing it with a more ' democratic ' system. The former system which my generation had the luck to have available, based purely on competitive exams, was finally wrecked completely by the Blair policies. I my youth university education was valued, when 5% had it and 95% did not. Under Blair who reputedly wanted 50% where originally there had been 5% was calculated to be a game changer, so that frankly in many places in the western world nowadays a vocational college education is more highly valued. As a final remark, it has always been the case that going to Oxford in particular was as a method of making contacts and friendships rather than for anything the academic material might provide [ although their tutorial system used to be excellent ]. And so I assume it remains. SO good luck Rosie, I hope things work out for you.
@@ohwellwhateverr you own personal experience is not actually reflective of reality today. The Grammar schools that exist today are full of middle class children that have either been to prep school and or who have have parents who can pay for extra tuition. The very low numbers of children in Grammar schools entitled to free school meals show how few of the cleverest from the poorest backgrounds actually attend. To pretend that Labour are less likely to fund education for all compared to the Conservatives does not reflects the slashing of funding to state schools that they have continually made over the last 11 years.
@@ohwellwhateverr in my view the eleven plus gave opportunity to those mature enough and academic enough. The inspirational kids were left to mature later and consequentially disadvantaged.
Went to Warwick and felt very similar. a lot of my friends didn't understand why I couldn't go out with the for silly things like dinner everynight bc I was working 4 jobs to just stay afloat. Had a few too many comments about I didn't belong there bc of my contextual offer, 'you're bringing the standard of education down for everyone bc they have to dumb it down for you', 'my friend did better than you at Alevel and he got rejected'
@@andrewbaumann2661 I mean, that varies. Lots of private schools are great for sports facilities and such, but aren't academically strong. Not every private school is Eton or Westminster School, and besides you can attend private schools on a bursary if you win a scholarship on the basis of academia or whatever your skill is.
i’m a southerner who did my gcses and a levels at grammar schools never with any intention of oxbridge (purely because of the constant feeling of playing catch-up after being in a comprehensive school for year 7-9) but thank you endlessly for shedding light on the north/south divide in this context !! 🦋
As someone who grew up in the working class and studied at a "public ivy league" university and medical school in the states, I have experienced the same things you have listed in the video (aside from the dining experiences). Thank you for sharing your perspective. This is so valuable to students from similar backgrounds and for academics to hear.
@@altacc617 It is stupid. However, unlike America where you can't tell somebody's background by thier accent, in Britain you can, and it#'s really obvious too.
I'm from Stockport & was on Pupil Premium (free school meals eligible) at a state school. Definitely not posh. Unfortunately I absorb accents like a sponge in water so sound more Oxford than I'd like. Equally I've always had a sort of presenter voice when filming without even realising. I think the moral here is don't judge a book by its cover (or without watching the video by the sounds of it?)
@@heathermcdougall8023 you've got a point. the thing with Americans is not entirely true though, different regions also have different American accents, but to someone who isn't American it would just sound the same (same with British accents)
This is a great video. I can't say I'm working class but I went to a pretty crap state school and was the first in my family to go to uni. Definitely experienced a culture shock at Cambridge. I remember when I wrote my first assignment I didn't even know how to do a bibliography haha. For me it caused quite an identity crisis cause I was used to being "the clever one" and then at cam everyone was so much smarter than me I just sort of gave up 😂
@@RosieCrawford ah yeah that’s right, EPQ. I mean it’s just a fancy name for the reading list you used so not the most difficult concept. Anyways, I’m going to Oxford in the autumn so fingers crossed!
Hear you about everyone else going Ski-ing in the holidays. Going around Europe. Pain in the proverbial. Best you can do is recognize imho is that you will benefit more from the educational experience than they will. Don't try and compete. Just remember that wealth rarely lasts beyond three generations according to their own bankers (really, really). So don't measure yourself against them, but against your friends and your own obejctives. Fab video.
Yep same as me!! "Where were you during summer hols?" Friend 1: I was in the Alps for 3 weeks Friend 2: omg I was also in the alps for 3 weeks! Friend 3: We stayed in our summer home in Marseilles Me: worked at Tesco :) oh but I did go to Alton Towers, bit high class ik ;)
Thank you so much for making this video. You're filling in a gap in information for working class kids, which I know could potentially make their transitions to uni so much easier
I am currently holding an offer from Oxford and have watched countless videos about other students' experiences, but this video has been the most real and honest insight into student life at Oxford from a person with a similar background to me and you have made me think in completely new ways about uni life. Thank you for making me aware of these important issues, I am so grateful.
Congratulations on the offer! I'm not entirely sure i even considered them at the time. It's only looking backwards that I really see things. Oxford was incredible & I wouldn't change where I went to uni but it does have a lot to work on. All the best!
Rosie Crawford Thank you so much for your response, I hope to see some changes by the time I’m there! I received a deferred offer so I’m taking time to ‘catch myself up’ as you would put it with things like philosophy and languages and other forms of art before I start :)
As a member of your extended clan, I send you my best wishes for Oxford and the future. I never had aspirations to go there myself, for various reasons, and chose the redbrick path instead. That said I think the tutorial system, assuming it has not been perverted by now is one of the best systems yet devised. Oh, and BTW, my #3 son is called Charles, and refuses to answer to " Charlie ", finding that the latter compared with the former assumes unwanted familiarity and is less respectful. You may want to consider this when you go up.
I come from a state school background in the South West and due to my age (older than I'd like to be!), my state school saw attending university as something kids from that school just didn't do. We were essentially trained to have basic functional skills useful for basic functional jobs. When I expressed a desire to go to University at the age of 15 my careers advisor pretty much laughed at me and then directed me towards training to become a secretary or a supermarket supervisor! If I had expressed an interested in Oxbridge I would have laughed out of the school, I have no doubt of that!. I'm glad that state schools now see attending university as the norm for their students and are helping in applications. Yes, we have a long way to go when it comes to state school students and Oxbridge but at least the journey has started. As for Oxford and Cambridge themselves, they have a long way to go in their outreach to the state school sector. It's all very well them saying 'oh we accept x% of state school pupils', they need to follow it up with visits into state schools all around the country not just selling the education you will get there but also explaining the customs and the 'weirdness' which comes with Universities of that age. They also need to come clean with state school pupils and tell it straight, while they may be a big fish in a small pond at their state school they will become a small fish in a very big pond at Oxbridge. I would hope that some of the pastoral care would also include assistance for first-year state schoolers in how the tutorial system works, how to be a confident speaker, understanding the language used etc. But then perhaps this shows a failing of the state school system rather than a weakness of Oxbridge. Sorry to bang on, I can be passionate about this subject as I really believe we need more state schoolers in Oxbridge and the Russell Group as a whole, and while my university education was in the Post 95 Sector (Canterbury Christ Church and Wolverhampton) and I wouldn't change that for the world because it was right for me, I do believe there are state schoolers out there who will find Oxbridge right for them and a valuable asset to the universities themselves and they need to be given a fighting chance to firstly get in and secondly survive so they can thrive.
No it’s not good! Everyone going to university means the less aggressive and less intelligent have less job opportunities! That’s a problem for some, for me I did choose to be lazy because I just don’t want to touch the elite and struggle, for my dream is to be a farmer after all.
This was so interesting! the music in the background was so calming too! The drug culture thing was interesting - i go to uni in bath (Bath Spa) and honestly never heard of half the drugs people take until i went! a lot of them were heavily in their overdraft, I also know lots of people who have got spiked (it happened to one of my closest friends and it was so scary as none of my close friends do drugs), coming from a very quiet area in Surrey this part of uni has definitely shocked me!
Really interesting! I went via a northern comprehensive to Oxford and I have to say, the academic education I had in both was great. In the 40 years since, my experience has pretty much confirmed for me at least, that the elite isn't nearly as elite as it assumes it is. And more importantly, as elite as everyone else assumes it is too. Back then it was almost exclusively male too. And white of course.
Would you be able to make a video specifically about vacations? What kind of work is set? Are there deadlines? How many hours do you have to work? Etc etc. That would be so helpful!!
I dont know anything about the British educatuon/university system (american here lol), but it's really interesting to learn about! Thank you for sharing!
Not sure why the algorithm brought this video up but I found it so interesting. I am 54 and had a working class upbringing in the north east of England. I ended up going to Durham university in an era when a small minority of state school students went to university at all, let alone one of the 'top' ones. Although Durham university is in the north east of England, there were very few students from the north east who actually went there at that time and it used to really upset me when people made fun of and mimicked my accent - so I started to lose it on purpose and then switch back to my natural accent when I went home. You'd really think things would have changed after all these years but it just goes to show how deeply embedded the class system is in our country.....
Something you touched on really briefly but I'm continually amazed by is the difference between state and private schools' expectations of pupils. I went to private school and now have kids of my own; whenever I'm talking to teachers at their (state) school the refrain is always "they're ok" or "they'll be ok" - to them that's the ultimate goal, make sure all the kids are "ok" - and internally I'm screaming "I don't want them to just be 'ok', I want them to thrive".
@@jamesjarrett52 you're missing the point. To them the phrase "they're ok" means "my work here is done." It doesn't matter whether my specific kids are doing well or badly. At a private school, their attitude is "he's getting an A, so this is what we need to do to get him to an A*"; whereas at this state school at least the attitude is "he's getting a B, that's fine."
This was fascinating thank you I have been to both a state secondary and a private one and then onto two diff Unis. I can definitely relate to the idea that state schools do not encourage participation in class like asking questions you keep your head down and let the lesson proceed. I think its because classes are so big it can be hard to control the class. It's also seen as asking for attention. Whereas in private schools it's encouraged.
Thanks for talking about this. I come from the North-West too. I go to Bristol uni and can relate to pretty much everything you're saying! I feel my confidence is comparatively lower to most people in most situations - social and academic - and it's hard to find people that I have things in common with. It also *seems* like a lot of people aren't actually doing any work and don't care about their degree which can be frustrating to see if you've worked so hard to get there despite less attention and often lower standards in a state school. I also feel that northern students are sometimes patronised - I don't know why. I would not change my background though because I am glad to have known people from all walks of life in school. I think it makes me more humble and it's a good talking point when I meet people. It gives me hope to see people like you leading the way for us and being honest about these pretty common experiences! Would love to hear more of your thoughts on this in future x
i went to st andrews from a state school and i still remember when i asked what a word meant in a tutorial and a posh girl laughed. (but the tutor, bless her, glared at her and just told me the definition)
Wow, I have felt like this sometimes when classmates had the opportunity to learn Latin/Greek in school, or their parents where academics themselves, but this is a whole new level... good and bad
At least in Germany there are schools offering that, I did it at uni too. Also it was quite the bonding experience because you all suffer your way through Cicero 😂
I had an old school friend from the Northeast of England and was told to take speech lessons. I myself have I studied in Sweden. I am doing a PHD in history and I met a researcher from Oxford. He was very rude when I said where I was born in England, That hurt, it really hurt. I am proud of myself overcoming bad state education in England, learning new languages and putting my mark in history studies. You made some very valid points in this video.
What an excellent video! That little montage of private school dining halls is so telling. i went to SPC from a state comprehensive many years ago and was miserable. When my daughter (also a comp student) got an offer from Christ Church, I secretly hoped she'd turn it down. She ignored me, of course, and had a great time! To add to your points, some of the key differences were 1. she knew a "normal" person (me) who had gone and she realised she was as bright as anyone else there (and anyone who gets a place is good enough) 2. realising the private school gloss is just a surface thing - most of them are decent people too! 3. You can make any college "yours" by making an effort to befriend the porters, walk the college dog, get involved with things like being the cake fairy, and walking tall.
I'm a state school student from South Wales starting at Oxford in a couple weeks... came to rewatch this video because of how insightful and realistic you come across. Thank you for this honestly, the culture shock would be mad without it (and probably will be even after watching).
I understand and relate to you. Originally from Australia, I graduated at Sydney Uni (top uni in Aus) and obtained a graduate role at KPMG. However growing up in lower demographic area in the South West Sydney - I was amazed and perplexed how others ‘schmoozed’/‘socialised’ so well about skiing in NZ/Japan, travelling Europe and talking about where they lived in the North Shore of sydney. I could never relate, and it was difficult to befriend them. And in some ways was being excluded simply because where I lived, and my high school despite achieving the same top university placement or graduate position as they have. Fast forward 13 years later - now working and living in London at an American IB in Finance, I can say from the beauty of hindsight is - to own your journey and be proud of it. It may seem difficult now, but stay true and consistent to your work ethic - because at the end of the day hard work will never be ignored and will be rewarded. And never give up your search for what you deserve - just like you have done to pursue your place at a top university, and also future career pathways. Being from a grass roots background can be advantageous - you have the ability to see people in a different lense and understand the journey they have been. You will be able to bring this to light in hiring conversations in your team - and when the time comes, uplift others who have fought for their rightful place to deserve a role in that profession too.
I can't believe that some people couldn't understand what you were saying! I'm not a native speaker, only learned English at 19 and your accent sounds so clear to me, there was no one word here that I would have problems understanding, even at 1.5x speed
Hi Rosie, what a lovely video such a true reflection on going up to Oxford with a working class background. I wish videos like this had been available back in the 90s. I remember not understanding formal halls and not wanting to pay the extra costs. The outreach is much better now to state schools now compared to my day but as you highlight more support needs to be given to settle in to a new environment and the first term is not enough time to do it. I went to Oxford 25 years ago and was the first person in my family to go to university from a working class family. Getting in was seen as the achievement and I only know now the preparation readiness for the experience many others had. I had to work through out the vacations although I never sought permission to do so as money was tight. I miss the beautiful buildings and town but having been an insider it is strange to go back as a tourist now.
Jesus. How would they manage with someone who was *actually* foreign (ie didn't grow up in England or the UK). Ludicrous to think they would suggest someone adjust their accent to suit Them. Different ways of speaking and pronunciation aren't Wrong, they're just Different.
Had that experience (from Oz) - I just felt like that Martian anthropologist - so far outside the system that I felt how I was judged by them was amusing, but not really relevant. My college was brilliant, though - repeated reminders that ‘Oxford’ WAS whatever the collection of people there at the time - we WERE ‘Oxford’.
Rosie, You have done incredibly well and will continue to do so. You have what your posh friends will never have. You grew up with "real people" and had real life experiences. You did not live in a sheltered protected world. You came into the Oxbridge Game totally unprepared unlike most of your classmates and succeeded. My son did his undergraduate work at Columbia University and graduated "summa cum laude ". He did his MPhil at Oxford and ultimately received a "distinction" or whatever the terminology is at the MPhil level for the best (like a first at the undergrad level). My my American trained Phd daughter did her post doc in Edinburgh. Both, especially my son, found the Oxbridge style system dramatically different then the US system at prestigious US unis. You came into the Oxbridge system totally unprepared and conquered it. Your contemporaries for the most part had been steeped in it for years and years. When you do your MPhil all will come into focus very easily. I, who have too many academic degrees, came from a humble brackground. When I arrived at my undergraduate university I was initially overwhelmed in comparison to "prep school" trained classmates. I eventually caught up. At the time of this writing you may have completed your MPhil. God Bless and good luck as you return to the real world. Be true to yourself. Stay the person who you are in this video. The real world likes the real you.
Absolutely loved this video! Even just studying at a Russell Group uni myself, I found that being a state school pupil from the north was frowned upon - can’t imagine the extent of this at Oxford!
I do actually really agree with the idea that state school prepares you for the independent work that’s expected of you at uni though. I did often find that students who went to grammar/private schools were almost complacent and expected to receive good grades but they’d never really had to put that kind of work in before!
I went to a state school from North Yorkshire and then Cambridge. I had NO discrimination and neither did I feel in any way frowned on at University. It was the friendliest place (maybe I was lucky at my College) and nobody could have come from a more plebeian background than me..... That was my experience, and I met and was friends with students from abroad and from all sorts of schools in the U.K. from local comprehensives, to grammar schools and Direct Grant schools, and the great Public Schools. All the same....
Great video. Sad about the study drugs thing though. Have heard its becoming an issue in all unis. Don't! It's for losers who are not smart enough and if it gives them a leg up they will never gain confidence from their degree as they will always wonder if they had made it without the drugs. I also wish English working class / northeners would be able to relax a bit more and enjoy the cultural experience here, learn and don't make it unnecessarily awkward or have a chip on their shoulder. Bear in mind there are many foreign students here too who do not even speak English natively and might even have more of a gap to bridge and try to fit in as best as they can. So wear a gown with pride, take selfies of it you can giggle at later in life, go to formals and wikipedia what a fish knife is and enjoy ! Oxford is a magic place, not many of them left, if the people who are here (voluntarily no less) are happy to enjoy it and help to preserve its special traditions and lovely quirks for future generations to come :) As for financial hardships I can relate. Someone coming back at the beginning of term after a summer of getting massages and sun in Thailand might have an edge over you having worked night shifts. But you might experience more growth here and can carry your head even higher when you graduate. And you also cannot see how much parental neglect the rich kid has been suffering from, and that may haunt them in their personal lifes, after being dumped in a boarding school from a young age.. We all have prices to pay.
I am from a bluecollar family, and here in Austria univeristy is for free. Which means I didn't have to work for 1 year like you. I feel very blessed since I wouldn't have otherwise be able to afford it. Moving up the social ladder is definitely possible here, as I am now starting a PhD. I feel like 100yrs ago, I wouldn't have had those opportunities, especially as a woman.
I studied in a private uni in Mexico. Coming from a working class household, I felt a lot of the things that you said. Yet, I'm having this fantasy of doing a Master in Oxford, hehe.
I know my culture shock would be similar if I went to Oxford. I was actually thinking about applying to Oxbridge (not sure which one yet) and I'm glad you actually mentioned a lot of things that I'd never heard of before. Especially the language aspect scares me a tiny bit, since I'm not even a Native English speaker (yes, officially I've got the level C2. Still - there are "normal" British words I don't know). Thanks for making the video
I'm in my final year at UCL and come from a working-class, BAME background. I dealt with really bad imposter syndrome at UCL and only really got over it just before this year. I was considering Oxford for Masters but I think I might sit this one out ajshdsjfh
I they they were pretending not to understand you as an indirect insult. I’m Canadian I can understand everything you say, so surely they could as well.
Drugs - I agree with you. I graduated a teetotal virgin with law prizes, never mind not taking drugs or smoke cigarettes (not Oxbridge). My children don't even smoke. I don't even think it is a state v private school thing other than the rich can afford more of the best and worst of things. Avoid drugs at university. The words point is fascinating. They say in the UK by age THREE years children from some homes know many fewer words than children from better educated homes. The reason my parents (NE England but state grammar schools) knew so many words and my grandfather who left school aged 12 was reading and public libraries, reading books for hours and hours and hours, book after book, a book a day at times and same for us as children. If we could get back that culture in the NE (and NW) of England of wanting to better yourself by reading books we could solve this words issue. Many of the obscure words I know are because of reading books from the 1700s, 1800s etc so many books all the time and so many words. You don't get that just chatting to people particularly if your family do not understand complicated and nuanced language. Read to your small children every night before bed even if the other parent is out working. Buy them books, hear their school reading even if you only have time because of work at weekends. read and read and read.
I go to Southampton University and come from Birmingham and literally feel the same way. Southampton is by no means as ‘posh’ as Oxford, but there is such a different culture in the South, and my accent absolutely sticks out. Then when I go home my accent sticks out again for being too ‘Southern’. I wish more people opened up about the North/South divide at university because it is such a real thing - doubt I will ever settle in fully but it was definitely a good move for opening my eyes about the differences within the UK!
Yes accents are and will remain ' a problem ', Actually they are a standard excuse for bigotry and clannishness worldwide. I emigrated from UK to Canada in 1962, with a North-country bias in my otherwise ' standard ' English. Brit Immigrant males were advised to get rid of their old accents as quickly as possible. In females Brit English was considered more desirable in many quarters. After nearly 60 years I can now claim that: when speaking English, I sound British to a Canadian ear, Canadian to a British ear. When I speak French in Canada I sound French-french, in France I sound Belgian. In Germany my German sounds French, but they are always complimentary and appreciate that I'm at least making the effort, which in English speakers generally is not common. So, my advice to you would be, it's WHAT you say that should be important rather than how you say it ! Good luck to you.
It's so funny you say about the word essay. When I was 15 my mum went to university and started talking about essays, something I'd never heard of, despite sitting my English GCSEs at the time and writing 6 courseworks that year which in hindsight were essays. I remember asking my mum what essay stood for because I thought she was saying an abbreviation, S.A.
'Not sure about nowadays but, in the past, public school students, while undoubtedly intelligent, hard-working and (importantly) confident, also had something of an advantage re Oxford and Cambridge, in that public schoolmasters usually had themselves been to Oxbridge and often knew personally the admissions tutors at certain colleges. I'd be interested to know the current situation on this front.
Such an interesting video, I love the cultural shock part as I am studying cultural studies myself and being from Spain and going to London to study my masters was also a huge shock for me like I wasn't expecting it because it is not like I am coming from China, from the other part of the world and I am landing in a place with a culture completely different from mine. But still, it was really shocking and it took me a while to adapt to their customs. I am really interested in lexicography, I would love a video related to Oxford jargon
@@RosieCrawford I am not sure yet, I am in furlough now and well, I'm back in Spain during the current situation, I would like to work as a curator or as a research assistant maybe. I am interested in Anthropology too. I have no plans yet....
Thanks for uploading this. I'll share some of my own experiences that might be relevant to anyone reading. I'm from a thoroughly working-class family. For the bulk of my teenage years, my parents had little or no income from employment. None of my family went to university, except for one uncle and a 2nd cousin decades earlier. Thankfully, I've always been interested in science of my own volition, and was realistically looking at attending Oxbridge for Physics. In year 12, my A-level further maths class went on a trip for a 3-day 'open-day' at oxford, and actually visiting the university totally changed my choices. I've never been more alienated by an experience than that visit to Oxford. It's all very elegant, but it just screamed 'pretentious' to me, even though the people I met there were largely very nice. Wealth and status, while not totally necessary - seemed to be a large part of the culture and background at Oxford. I knew I'd be surrounded by people I just couldn't relate to, and in a high-pressure environment where I'd need good friends to get me through it. I ended up applying elsewhere, and was very happy with my decision. I visited Cambridge a little way in to my first year, to see my then-girlfriend. Again, I was highly alienated by the aura of high-status that surrounded the place and the people there. Yes, it was a hub for academic excellence. No, it was not a place I could ever imagine living and studying in, because I just couldn't relate to many of the people I met. I ended up at a fancy Peterhouse formal in a black band t-shirt, blue jeans and some trainers. Oh, and a gown, of course. Huge respect for actually attending and experiencing it your own way. "Weird" is the best way to describe my views on the two universities.
Thanks for sharing. There was a great documentary about an exchange of state school and private school pupils that highlighted perfectly the differences. In state school, it’s just about getting through with the curriculum. There is no awareness for the social side of life, the attitudes, dress codes and knowledge that come with high level environments. It’s like a world that does not even exit for most state school teachers and pupils. I have been introduced to this world through my partner really who has shown me the fancy restaurants, which wine goes with what, how to select a fitting starter, etc, with the result of me being much more confident in such situations. It’s that sort of confidence that you get from a good education and I’m not just referring to academic achievements but mostly also to behavior and language which is something you can learn.
Thanks Rosie, I have always been curious as to how people from ‘normal’ 😊 backgrounds would fair at such lofty places. Glad you have taken it all in your stride and are moving onto higher degrees. The video is excellent too. All the best for your future.
Hey I really love how you gave examples in every other vids and split into section . I'm grateful there are people like you who are willing to share their experience❤.I'm now watching all your videos from oxford to the Cambridge . And those school are really hard to enter as they are for top students , it makes me feel unmotivated ngl . Are there any credits requirements for entering ? LAST BUT NOT LEAST I LOVE LOVE YOUR VIDS 🍡😍 hehe
This is really illuminating and kind of bewildering to me. It’s really a surprise to me that even British people struggle especially with the vocabulary part.
Depends on their education and we have all kinds of subtle clues eg she says "the" before a vowel whereas I would pronounce it "thee" as in "thee end" (not thu end). Not that any of that really matters. It is just clues we use to work out things about people.
Isn't the whole point of Oxbridge to train up and make networks of a privileged class to rule over the plebs? And of course some clever hard-working non-elite people get in but v few are 'let in to the club'. Hope you shake off all that nonsense and have a great life.
I am from north west and working class. I didn’t study here but moved here for adventure. I’ve worked at the uni and dipped in to some of the ‘scenes’. I felt exactly the same about what you say, like I was joining in halfway through. I tried to change myself to fit in but in the end I’ve gone back to my normal self. Your video is very truthful and I hope you stayed true to yourself, as an outsider it’s easy to try and change your background to blend in and belong but it doesn’t always work out well.
Thank you for the comment and for sharing your experience! I think my accent definitely changed most but it's gone pretty much back to normal since leaving :)
@@RosieCrawford I did find myself rounding my vowels and other little things. I wonder if you came across the RP ‘orf’ for ‘off’. As in ‘Are you orf?’ Various people tried to get me to say ‘Barth’ instead of ‘Bath’ and someone thought I was Scottish!! Hilarious. I’m as broad as anything again now and I’m still here!!
*14:00** DRUGS & ALCOHOL* : that is pretty standard, the adderol in the stacks. but taking other drugs, and frankly not drinking alcohol too, does put you in different circles. -JC
Thanks for sharing your experience, it was really interesting to hear about your experiences. I think the divide is a little less extreme in the US, but I've had some similar experiences. I went to a pretty underfunded public high school (so I believe the equivalent of a state school), and a public university for my undergraduate. I received Pell Grants throughout undergraduate, which seems to be the US version of Pupil Premium. I had to play some catch-up in undergrad because there's such variation in the quality of public schooling here, but it wasn't too extreme since a lot of people had similar backgrounds. Now however, I am doing my science courses for medical school at an Ivy League school (equivalent to the Russell group schools) in the same city as my undergraduate university. I've been shocked by the amount of family wealth so many students come from, and by the traditions that come with attending such an old school
omg this is the most brutally honest video i have ever seen! Well done for bringing attention to such an importnat issue Have no words to describe how amazing u are
Very interesting for people. For those watching 70% of people at Oxford and Cambridge now by the way went to UK state (i.e. no fees) school so the private school (fee paying) people are the minority even if for some it may not feel that way. By siblings went to Oxbridge from the NE of England (I did not try and my Head did not encourage it - no one had ever been to Oxbridge from our fee paying school until my younger sister went by the way - so that is fee paying school with NO Oxbridge entrants ever in NE England, until my younger sister). Good luck with the masters.
Asian here and applying for UK masters (not Oxbridge though) and the first part of the video is already making me anxious lol cos if you struggled with the accent and speech, jeez, for an Asian student whose first language isn't English, how am I supposed to survive lol But thanks so much for this video!
Hey! The accent that’s standard in the South of England (unlike Rosie’s accent) is more like the English you get taught as a second language :) Hopefully it won’t be too hard to get used to hearing!
I went to the other university in Oxford not long after it gained uni status. The amount of snobbery that came from the old university was unbelievable. Brookes students were still labelled as going to the poly even though the institution was no longer called this. It was like Oxford could not accept that it was not the only university in the city.
Aah I'm sorry to hear that! Unfortunately you still hear a lot of comments like that despite Brookes being a top uni for a lot of subjects. Hope it didn't detract from your experience too much
@@RosieCrawford Brookes offers many courses that are just to young for the old university. Did not detract from my experience and those showing the snobbery were a little sad. Shows that they had not lived in the real world but in the bubble of public school.
I love in Oxford and am very proud of Oxford Brookes. It’s one of the best universities in Britain and offers really interesting and modern courses, anyone who exhibits snobbery towards it or any snobbery full stop is seriously wrong and needs their social brain required.
*32:00** STIPEND/BURS/SCHOLSHIPS* : totally. it is a tax dodge &/or (usually and) guilt money. i want to set up a bursary in my name, i think it is a cool way to give back. but youd be surprised how often scholarships are left bc no1 even applied. that is not to say applications are not always a hassle. but finding grants or funding or venture capital is always a hassle. it doesnt end. you worry about your side: theyve got their side sorted in offering the money in the first place. -JC
In my case, most of my state school friends could afford to go private but choose not too because of pier pressure. In Yr 7 we were learning about the battle of Hastings whereas they were only beginning too in Yr 8. Throughout my time in my private school we were always encouraged to do our best and too fail because then we know how to improve which is a mindset usually found in higher up unis. Whereas talking to my state school friends their school only talks about them achieving minimum grades and trying to go to a nearby uni. I don’t think it’s a class situation between rich and poor, in my opinion it’s the effort and funding of the schools that rob state schoolers from achieving their best. I know most of my state school friends could go to Oxbridge but don’t feel like they could because they haven’t been brought up in that kind of mindset which I think is really sad.
One of the most notable working class Oxford alumni was Dennis Potter. He was one of the best writers in Britain post war. He wrote a play about his Oxford years called 'Stand up Nigel Barton'. He certainly preferred the IDEA of Oxford to its reality.
Great vid BUT...........BLANK the naysayers from either side(in your home area or Oxbridge). Frightened sheep. Leap over them all. Focus on your passion. Everything(life) is ahead of you.
Rosie, you don't sound very northern to me. When I was at Oxford fifty years ago my best friend was the son of welder from Runcorn; you couldn't have found a more working class family, and his accent was much more northern than yours. As far as I am aware no one ever mentioned it at Oxford. He married a Cambridge graduate; I think there was less division then than now.
I really found your video interesting. I would never have had your courage to go to Oxford, I would never get in to start with but I come from a working class background and went to a state school so can connect with that. I tried University when I was 18 but it wasn't for me but I did have other students and teachers mention my accent alot which made me self conscious alot and knocked my self confidence and that was only a Modern University! I wouldn't survive going to formals or being around pretentious people. Also I worked as a Carer for 20 years and looked after many people with drug and alcohol problems. I'm glad you stayed away from drugs as they do kill alot of people both rich and poor. Rich people can afford a better purer quality of drugs which hasn't been mixed and contaminated with other substances so they generally live longer than drug users on the streets who take drugs that have been mixed in with washing powder or god knows what. A nurse once told me with drug users and alcoholics that once they've taken drugs too many times for a long period of time their brain cells die and they get brain damaged and lose their inhibitions completely and lose their decision making abilities so they cannot stop using, in other words they're too far gone to be saved. I've also looked after people with Korsakoffs syndrome which is alcohol induced dementia. It's awful. Money is no object to these rich students and they don't understand and neither care for those who are poorer. They grow up in that environment and are conditioned to think like that, they internalise their environment. I've worked in customer service jobs and served rich people and most are snobbish but I just used to do my job but never was friendly with them. I didn't care for them. Most people wouldn't have the courage to put themselves in difficult situations like you experienced as they would be too self conscious. The world is often unfair but it's often best to stay away from people who are pretentious as they often are very ignorant and don't know any better.
This might be the closest thing to you getting an understanding of the experience of how we ethnic minorities of the UK feel living and navigating life in England although some of us have been here for 4 to 5 generations yet treated as outsiders for not only our class, race and religion and yet we still strive to succeed coming from deprived backgrounds.
thank you so much for this video!! its absolutely scared me shitless cause i’d never really thought about how much of a disadvantage i’m gonna be at- i guess i’ve tricked myself into feeling clever and bored being at a state school in the north where im not really pushed that much. thank u for the food for thought
I just re-read your comment. You CAN DO THIS & you DESERVE TO BE THERE. Never doubt yourself. It is humbling for sure, but do not let it knock your confidence xxxxx
I know it’s a bit late to reply, but go for it. Look if you are doing well enough at somewhere your not being pushed imagine how well you can do at a uni which pushes you. Also whilst private school may teach with smaller groups and such, it doesn’t mean they are inherently smart. I went to a public school, and yes this teaching benefited the few who were natural born academics, but for most it doesn’t make a difference because they don’t care. So if you are someone who is applying oxbridge, well then don’t delude yourself that you are a big fish in a small pool, because doing well in a school which doesn’t push you is more impressive than doing well in a school which does push.
oh Rosie I like how you are so honest and that you make people realize that people that go to oxford don't just come from private schools and Grammer schools
Interesting video! I was at The Queen's College Oxford, 1994-97. Although I am British, I had never lived in Britain before I went to Oxford, so most things were very foreign to me, but I really enjoyed it. It's funny you mention the Northern accents, because Queen's has historical Northern connections, and your kind of accent was quite common in my college. One of my mates there was from Sunderland, with a really strong accent and nobody made any fuss about that. Maybe things have changed since my days, or maybe that was just my college. Who knows?
So proud of you, Rosie. ❤ In my book, you're actually way better than all those who didn't have to struggle, work for money during the vacations or multitask with studies and jobs, figure out the weird jargon, the right fork, all of it. Wishing you happiness and success, however you define that for yourself.
I studied my masters in law at Oxford after Hull University and as a Northerner. The two experiences were very different. I met some amazing people though and loved the sport opportunities. I wish that I could go back with the confidence that I have now as an older adult in terms of the tutorials though. The fact that I was good at writing essays helped me get in and win the scholarship, it was awkward being in the tutorial situation in terms of the oral discussion (for postgraduate). They didn't weigh up that ability in my admission and I was a shy young lady back then. Such a shame really as it made things really awkward with some tutors. I would say that my background is middle class, but I was stunned by the expensive holidays that some people went on over Christmas. I didn't worry about the rent then, but the world has changed and cost of living has increased.
I’m listening to Fiona Hill’s audiobook right now, and she writes about her experience-it really echoes yours! Despite hers taking place a generation before. I’m just an American gal who finds these stories really interesting and valuable to hear, so thanks for posting 😀. And congrats on all your hard work and success!
In regards to the accent and vernacular, in the states; particularly with the Black community, the nature of accent and word choice changing in the environment, gets referred to as Code Switching. As well many who receive a college education and then return to their local get the same negative energy of like why do you sound this way. Long story short you’re not alone in those feeling
Very interesting! I agree with a lot of what you say and am surprised Oxford is still like this.I went to a women's college in Oxford, from a State girls' grammar school in 1976. The practical, unassuming buildings of the colleges that used to women only in those days are a very far cry from the older richer colleges that used to be men only. I think your college is one of the most Oxfordish colleges you could have chosen! Having said that I remember being socially daunted with the first 'sherry with your tutor' . We dumbstruck state school girls were so grateful for the input of the public school girl among us who talked loudly about her skiing holiday! But In spite of being daunted in so many ways by the enormity and unreality of being At Oxford, I , like you , found the place utterly beautiful and magical, and I still do
Asking questions. The reflex, the natural inclination is so easily squashed. It is the secret sauce. I went to a mixture of private and state then public and then state school. But I was a contrary pain in the *&%^ so I learned to ask questions. It's SO IMPORTANT.
As state school educated parents of two children who we sent to private 'prep' school I can relate to the completely ,almost 'other planet' , difference in attitude and ethos of the private schools. My son, a year younger and fairly precocious anyway adapted to the whole experience pretty quickly. My daughter, by this time beginning second year junior was a complete year behind her peers at the beginning! She rose to the challenge and they both did very well. I remember picking them up from their first day at this new school and , for a moment, thinking I had kidnapped somebody else's kids as they were full of what they were going to do, where they were going go on trips to. The energy was palpable. Completely different from when they nervously arrived that morning. They went on to private school (daughter) and Grammar (son) and much of their effectiveness since has been the ability and confidence to hold their own ground in the world of work since. What sold us was the professional, confident and able way a final year student guided us around the school.
I can identify with so much of this! Yesterday I watched programmes about state and private school head teachers swapping places, which was so interesting. It's a different world at 'public schools' and no wonder they can fit in so easily at a place like Oxford. Even though it's now 29 years since I went to Oxford (hard to believe, it seems more like 15!) your experience sounds so similar to mine. I love the old buildings... accents was something people discussed (I would not have been able to guess where yours comes from it almost sounds 'normal' to me with hints of a northern accent, but then some of my friends here in Wales sound very much like you!) Formal dinners were so awkward as I was afraid of how hard it is to have good table manners. (The first time I asked what the broccoli was because I had never seen it before - it was not a common vegetable in the 1980s!) They were every Tuesday in my college but were optional and I think I tended to go about once a term. I much preferred cooking for myself. As for drugs, I never came across anyone into that, only maybe once a friend was harming herself and might have been using medication. I had something better than a better 'study drug' - baking choc-chip cookies and selling them to my friends to raise money for charity. We all thought they were great 'revision fuel'. Most played music in their rooms to help concentrate on studying. That was new to me, as I thought that would be a distraction, but I ended up doing it myself (cassette tapes!!) sometimes to drown out the sound of music from other people's rooms! We didn't have the benefit of laptops and google - the computers in college only had Windows 3.1 or the operating system before that and I didn't know I had an email address or how to access it until a few weeks after my tutor sent an email about handing in some work...! PS about essays - I am surprised they use that term in a primary school. It was something we started to learn about in first year in secondary school. The term 'essay crisis' became one of those 'Oxford words and phrases' I heard a few times, when someone has left writing an essay until the day they are supposed to hand it in! I don't remember many other Oxford words... oh maybe 'subfusc'! Social life to me meant having a few friends around to talk about interesting things, eat cake and play board/card games or go out to G&D's (sometimes at 11pm when the pub crowd were going home!)! There were plenty of special interest clubs to choose from and nice parks to visit.
I went to a secondary modern school we certainly used the word essay,Cannot understand why you have never heard of it.oh lol you made little me feel clever
My school just only ever used the word assessment 😄 even at A Level any long answer questions that were effectively essays were just called "30 mark questions". Glad I could be of service hahah
lol that may be the case as I know there’s a lot of scholarships. However, the point is that students who move on from schools like CH to Oxford will already be used to old and strange traditions, therefore making Oxford less overwhelming and alienating
Those tutors were posturing, and that's it. English isn't my first language, I was taught received pronunciation in school, but I understand you perfectly. There's just no reason they shouldn't be able to understand what you're saying, short of entitlement and rudeness.
same here. English isn't my first language (although I have been speaking it for 15+ years and don't have an accent at all) and I understood everything perfectly. Insane to me how other british people might try and make it out like she isn't speaking clearly :/
@@arijeanz everyone has an accent
As a northern working-class person trying to enter the theatre industry, the classism in this country is staggering. Until a few years ago, I never truly realised how much of an advantage private education gives you. I didn’t even go to a high ranking university, but I remember stressing over what my family wore to my graduation as they hadn’t been to one before and I didn’t want everyone to look out of place. I struggled with my background for a long time, but now I embrace it as part of my identity. Thank you for this video! ❤️
That’s a really good way to look at feeling in slightly posh places like Oxford. Just be yourself and accept it as your identity and as a strength.
I was "getting a job for life" in a northern steel-town as instructed at the steal-werks.
The problem started when I went to a motorcycle rally in Holland aged 19.
Lou Reeds Lyrics - "when you are growing up in a small town, and you're having a nervous breakdown, because you think you'll never escape it, yourself or the place that you live" became prescient.
I fucked off to New Zealand with my life partner, ended up working with people who were world class.
The UK is mired by its death sentence heritage.
As a member (Class. Arch. DPhil) of your old department I think this is an extremely important testament of the student experience that I think all who teach at Oxford should watch. I've advocated this video in the Classics department Town Hall meeting this morning, so you might see a few new subscribers coming from Classics, but I'll also do it at any opportunities I get in Archaeology too. Keep up the good work, and good luck in the future - do say hi if you're ever in the department, (I sit opposite Gonzalo).
Wow thank you so much! I'm sure I'll be in a few times next year because I'm based at Cranfield. All the best :)
Rosie this is such a great video!!
Aaaaaah thank you!!!!❤❤❤❤
Oh Rosie: I just wish I could hug you. Most of us, my children included, attend state schools and it is imperative the Oxford and the likes appreciate this and make their initiation into the system integrated and reflective of what state school students are used to in their lives. Widening Access is wonderful, but with that widening access, awareness of the majority of the populations experiences need to come with it. You KNOW how proud of you we are and it wouldn’t have mattered to us what background you came from just like we adore Mani and the likes who come from a more privileged background. Thank you as well for being open and honest about the drugs scene as it is crucial for parents to prepare their children for how to deal with these things as they go into their independent lives.
Thank you so, so much, Rose!!!!
there are a lot of good things about experiencing something very different and Rosie has said how she loves the culture eg being confident in your debating. we cant make everything adapt to every possible circumstance. its like going to France and saying you want them to not have circular rolled pillows, and insist they prepare you bacon and eggs for breakfast. Its called getting experience and yes it will be harder but if you want a very high standard of education you have to expect that Oxford is a follow on from private school and to prepare for it. You always remember how you were stretched in life and its good for your character to a large extent.
I used to believe in meritocracy but these institutions are just inherently classist… the number of smart kids feeling like they’re not enough purely because they objectively lacked opportunities their better off peers had… And it’s all so subtle! Like the expected knowledge of languages or dining rules. Your video was very eye opening and I appreciate your honesty so much!
Your honest story reminded me of my master's course days. I studied at a graduate school where students came from wealthier families compared to my undergraduate school, and some of my fellow students had high-brand bags while I used a cheap backpack. I often felt social-class gap as you did, and was surprised how they looked confident and positive all the time. But to be fair, they didn't look down on me because of my (relative) poverty.
Rosie, you proved that even students from not-so-wealthy backgrounds can aspire and achieve extremely high! You are a great role model for many people all around the world.
I work in finance in London, and I'm from Yorkshire with quite a strong accent, went to state school and a non-Russel group uni.
I've been at my current place a number of years now and it's crazy to see how new graduates that went to private schools, top unis and are generally from wealth families can just click with the firm Partners straight away because they're all from this background. I know my stuff and I work my arse off, but I could never have the conversations that these new grads are having with senior management and clients, getting pally and are generally on the firm radar from day 1.
I understand and relate to you. Originally from Australia, I graduated at Sydney Uni (top uni in Aus) and obtained a graduate role at KPMG. However growing up in lower demographic area in the South West Sydney - I was amazed and perplexed how others ‘schmoozed’/‘socialised’ so well about skiing in NZ/Japan, travelling Europe and talking about where they lived in the North Shore of sydney. I could never relate, and it was difficult to befriend them.
Fast forward 13 years later - now working and living in London at an American IB in Finance, I can say from the beauty of hindsight is - to own your journey and be proud of it.
It may seem difficult now, but stay true and consistent to your work ethic - because at the end of the day hard work will never be ignored and will be rewarded. And never give up your search for what you deserve - just like you have done to pursue your role at EY.
Being from a grass roots background can be advantageous - you have the ability to see people in a different lense and understand the journey they have been. You will be able to bring this to light in hiring conversations in your team - and when the time comes, uplift others who have fought for their rightful place to deserve a role in that profession too.
I've seen this as well although from the other side - I went to private school & oxbridge and I've noticed that, even when I'm talking to people who aren't from that background, I get a lot of extra respect and credibility purely from the RP accent and articulate speech. I work in a tech company, so you'd expect it to be quite meritocratic or even cynical about traditional privilege, but even here I see it; I have a peer with a thick Northern accent, who to be perfectly frank works a lot harder than me and is just as naturally talented, but whereas he is continually having to prove himself, I seem to encounter only open doors...
@@katrinafajardo909 Thanks for your comment - definitely a widespread issue with very deep roots.
@@phueal Thanks for your honest insight and good on you for recognising it - first step to change! Not often you hear the view from the "other side".
Birds of a feather flock together and rats run in packs 😁
Watching with interest as a fellow state school kid who went to Oxford (matriculated 2002 so a long time before you!) I relate to a lot of what you’ve said, although I think it helped that I went to one of the less traditional colleges and had a friendship group that included a couple of fellow state school kids (including one who is now my husband) and some private school people who were pretty down to earth. That said, I went to one of their houses once and was gobsmacked at the full chandelier in the dining room. She didn’t really get my shock, because, “duh! It’s a dining room!” 🤣 Also struggled with certain tutors who didn’t understand the difference between the students who had been trained their whole lives for this and the ones like me who had the potential and ability but needed a bit more help, and being made to feel useless wasn’t exactly helpful! Thankfully there were only ever a couple of tutors who were like that.
Very true, what you said about state schools unfortunately. Teachers always making it clear your raising your hand is a major inconvenience & a bother to them, lack of interest & even clear annoyance at your stepping into their monologue - and then kids leave thinking _that'_s what learning's supposed to be. Personal experience sadly. Awful, but with the way teachers at state schools are continually being underpaid you can hardly expect any better. You must've worked like mad to get yourself where you are. Very inspiring :)
I know, state school funding is a MAJOR issue. Thank you!!
This is why you should never vote Labour. The “widening participation” incentive under Blair wasn’t thought through - yes, we have more people from working class backgrounds going to university (a good thing), but instead of doing what they should have done (provide more scholarships for underprivileged schools, professionalised teaching, etc), what they did was to lower the standards for everyone. So now we have more people than ever going to university, with lower entry requirements, massive grade inflation (because students see themselves as customers who can barter for better grades), and low job prospects at the end of it. Degrees have lost their value.
On top of that, Labour are also intent on doing away with grammar schools. These are the best schools around, especially for working class kids. Again, instead of getting rid of them, we need more scholarships and bursaries or fee waivers so that smart working class kids can benefit from all these schools have to offer. I’m working class and my parents didn’t have the opportunity to go to good schools, yet they pushed me to work hard and get into a grammar. I’m so grateful they did.
@@ohwellwhateverr Your comments certainly strike a note with me. I was born in 1935 into a working class family in west Cumberland. None of my family had been to University, although one of our next-door neighbour's boys had - he studied Mining Engineering at King's College Durham, as it then was, and later became the manager of a [ by then State-owned ] coal mine.
Having myself passed my " 11 plus " exam in 1946 I went then to a newly formed State Grammar School based on an older private secondary school of good reputation which had been fee-paying.
The year 1946 schools were implemented by the new Labour Government of Clement Attlee and were completely free; their structure had been based on a previous government study known as the Beveridge Report which recognized that after WW2 the citizens of the UK would demand some form or reward after 6 years of war. The new schools accepted only students of higher academic abilities, measured by the " 11 plus " exam. About 20% of all students passed that exam.
My academic year was the first to take the new GCE exams in 1951. In 1954 having passed 7 O-levels, 3 A-levels and one S level put me in a group representing about 5% of the student population. I went on to study Engineering at a redbrick university, graduating in 1957. In those days the university student population was 3000 ; it is now ten times that. Places in the Halls of Residence were very limited, and most of the student body lived in ' digs ' provided by the good citizens of the city.
After I graduated there was the problem on compulsory military service for males. Deferment was easy to obtain if one were employed in some high-tech job, or, as in my case following an engineering apprenticeship tailored to the needs of university graduates.
Looking back now, I never ever considered applying to OXBRIDGE [ actually neither had a good reputation in the engineering community, and as a result in the profession there were few Oxford men [ they were ALL men ], and more Cambridge men who tended to stick together in self-promoting groups ] knowing instinctively that I would be and feel out of place, despite the fact that I [ thanks to my mother's insistence ] grew up speaking a middle-class form of English, with only a trace of a NORTHCOONTRY accent.
This is important because as Henry Higgens says every time an Englishman speaks another Englishman will despise him. Accents, like table manners and good clothes were crucially important as determinants for one's economic future. Indeed in the Navy and Army [ Air Force not so much ] the wrong accent would bar you from holding an officer's commission. Hence my mother's insistence on my not speaking like the local lads.
After working then through an education which had continued from age 5 to 24 I was now considered in the job market as a highly desirable quantity, and I never had any problem finding work of my choice.
As you point out it was the labour government [ Anthony Crossland ? ] who eventually abolished the state-funded Grammar School system replacing it with a more ' democratic ' system. The former system which my generation had the luck to have available, based purely on competitive exams, was finally wrecked completely by the Blair policies.
I my youth university education was valued, when 5% had it and 95% did not. Under Blair who reputedly wanted 50% where originally there had been 5% was calculated to be a game changer, so that frankly in many places in the western world nowadays a vocational college education is more highly valued.
As a final remark, it has always been the case that going to Oxford in particular was as a method of making contacts and friendships rather than for anything the academic material might provide [ although their tutorial system used to be excellent ]. And so I assume it remains.
SO good luck Rosie, I hope things work out for you.
@@ohwellwhateverr you own personal experience is not actually reflective of reality today. The Grammar schools that exist today are full of middle class children that have either been to prep school and or who have have parents who can pay for extra tuition. The very low numbers of children in Grammar schools entitled to free school meals show how few of the cleverest from the poorest backgrounds actually attend. To pretend that Labour are less likely to fund education for all compared to the Conservatives does not reflects the slashing of funding to state schools that they have continually made over the last 11 years.
@@ohwellwhateverr in my view the eleven plus gave opportunity to those mature enough and academic enough. The inspirational kids were left to mature later and consequentially disadvantaged.
Went to Warwick and felt very similar. a lot of my friends didn't understand why I couldn't go out with the for silly things like dinner everynight bc I was working 4 jobs to just stay afloat.
Had a few too many comments about I didn't belong there bc of my contextual offer, 'you're bringing the standard of education down for everyone bc they have to dumb it down for you', 'my friend did better than you at Alevel and he got rejected'
Never listen to those comments. You deserved fo be there it’s their hollow insecurities that don’t belong.
It's easy to get high grades when you are at an expensive private school. Well done on getting into Warwick; wish I had done the same.
@@andrewbaumann2661 I mean, that varies. Lots of private schools are great for sports facilities and such, but aren't academically strong. Not every private school is Eton or Westminster School, and besides you can attend private schools on a bursary if you win a scholarship on the basis of academia or whatever your skill is.
i’m a southerner who did my gcses and a levels at grammar schools never with any intention of oxbridge (purely because of the constant feeling of playing catch-up after being in a comprehensive school for year 7-9) but thank you endlessly for shedding light on the north/south divide in this context !! 🦋
As someone who grew up in the working class and studied at a "public ivy league" university and medical school in the states, I have experienced the same things you have listed in the video (aside from the dining experiences). Thank you for sharing your perspective. This is so valuable to students from similar backgrounds and for academics to hear.
She doesn['t sound "working class "at all. Take it from me, a Brit. She's posh.
@@heathermcdougall8023 I find it stupid that British people stereotype each other based on how they sound and whatnot
@@altacc617 It is stupid. However, unlike America where you can't tell somebody's background by thier accent, in Britain you can, and it#'s really obvious too.
I'm from Stockport & was on Pupil Premium (free school meals eligible) at a state school. Definitely not posh. Unfortunately I absorb accents like a sponge in water so sound more Oxford than I'd like. Equally I've always had a sort of presenter voice when filming without even realising. I think the moral here is don't judge a book by its cover (or without watching the video by the sounds of it?)
@@heathermcdougall8023 you've got a point. the thing with Americans is not entirely true though, different regions also have different American accents, but to someone who isn't American it would just sound the same (same with British accents)
This is a great video. I can't say I'm working class but I went to a pretty crap state school and was the first in my family to go to uni. Definitely experienced a culture shock at Cambridge. I remember when I wrote my first assignment I didn't even know how to do a bibliography haha. For me it caused quite an identity crisis cause I was used to being "the clever one" and then at cam everyone was so much smarter than me I just sort of gave up 😂
Did you do coursework and stuff like that for A Levels, because usually you need to write a Bibliography for it
For my A Levels I did coursework but no bibliographies. First time I across one really was for my EPQ :)
@@RosieCrawford ah yeah that’s right, EPQ. I mean it’s just a fancy name for the reading list you used so not the most difficult concept. Anyways, I’m going to Oxford in the autumn so fingers crossed!
Hear you about everyone else going Ski-ing in the holidays. Going around Europe. Pain in the proverbial. Best you can do is recognize imho is that you will benefit more from the educational experience than they will. Don't try and compete. Just remember that wealth rarely lasts beyond three generations according to their own bankers (really, really). So don't measure yourself against them, but against your friends and your own obejctives. Fab video.
Yep same as me!! "Where were you during summer hols?"
Friend 1: I was in the Alps for 3 weeks
Friend 2: omg I was also in the alps for 3 weeks!
Friend 3: We stayed in our summer home in Marseilles
Me: worked at Tesco :) oh but I did go to Alton Towers, bit high class ik ;)
Thank you so much for making this video. You're filling in a gap in information for working class kids, which I know could potentially make their transitions to uni so much easier
I am currently holding an offer from Oxford and have watched countless videos about other students' experiences, but this video has been the most real and honest insight into student life at Oxford from a person with a similar background to me and you have made me think in completely new ways about uni life. Thank you for making me aware of these important issues, I am so grateful.
Congratulations on the offer! I'm not entirely sure i even considered them at the time. It's only looking backwards that I really see things. Oxford was incredible & I wouldn't change where I went to uni but it does have a lot to work on. All the best!
Rosie Crawford Thank you so much for your response, I hope to see some changes by the time I’m there! I received a deferred offer so I’m taking time to ‘catch myself up’ as you would put it with things like philosophy and languages and other forms of art before I start :)
@@charliepotts5604 Did you start in September? If so, I hope it's going well.
As a member of your extended clan, I send you my best wishes for Oxford and the future. I never had aspirations to go there myself, for various reasons, and chose the redbrick path instead. That said I think the tutorial system, assuming it has not been perverted by now is one of the best systems yet devised.
Oh, and BTW, my #3 son is called Charles, and refuses to answer to " Charlie ", finding that the latter compared with the former assumes unwanted familiarity and is less respectful. You may want to consider this when you go up.
@@crustyoldfart ooh old person
I come from a state school background in the South West and due to my age (older than I'd like to be!), my state school saw attending university as something kids from that school just didn't do. We were essentially trained to have basic functional skills useful for basic functional jobs. When I expressed a desire to go to University at the age of 15 my careers advisor pretty much laughed at me and then directed me towards training to become a secretary or a supermarket supervisor! If I had expressed an interested in Oxbridge I would have laughed out of the school, I have no doubt of that!.
I'm glad that state schools now see attending university as the norm for their students and are helping in applications. Yes, we have a long way to go when it comes to state school students and Oxbridge but at least the journey has started.
As for Oxford and Cambridge themselves, they have a long way to go in their outreach to the state school sector. It's all very well them saying 'oh we accept x% of state school pupils', they need to follow it up with visits into state schools all around the country not just selling the education you will get there but also explaining the customs and the 'weirdness' which comes with Universities of that age. They also need to come clean with state school pupils and tell it straight, while they may be a big fish in a small pond at their state school they will become a small fish in a very big pond at Oxbridge. I would hope that some of the pastoral care would also include assistance for first-year state schoolers in how the tutorial system works, how to be a confident speaker, understanding the language used etc. But then perhaps this shows a failing of the state school system rather than a weakness of Oxbridge.
Sorry to bang on, I can be passionate about this subject as I really believe we need more state schoolers in Oxbridge and the Russell Group as a whole, and while my university education was in the Post 95 Sector (Canterbury Christ Church and Wolverhampton) and I wouldn't change that for the world because it was right for me, I do believe there are state schoolers out there who will find Oxbridge right for them and a valuable asset to the universities themselves and they need to be given a fighting chance to firstly get in and secondly survive so they can thrive.
Thank you for sharing!
No it’s not good! Everyone going to university means the less aggressive and less intelligent have less job opportunities! That’s a problem for some, for me I did choose to be lazy because I just don’t want to touch the elite and struggle, for my dream is to be a farmer after all.
Probably the most important Oxford Uni video I've watched. Interested in seeing where you want to go next with improving access.
This was so interesting! the music in the background was so calming too! The drug culture thing was interesting - i go to uni in bath (Bath Spa) and honestly never heard of half the drugs people take until i went! a lot of them were heavily in their overdraft, I also know lots of people who have got spiked (it happened to one of my closest friends and it was so scary as none of my close friends do drugs), coming from a very quiet area in Surrey this part of uni has definitely shocked me!
Yes! I think the drugs bit goes for every uni & I was just v naive
Really interesting! I went via a northern comprehensive to Oxford and I have to say, the academic education I had in both was great. In the 40 years since, my experience has pretty much confirmed for me at least, that the elite isn't nearly as elite as it assumes it is. And more importantly, as elite as everyone else assumes it is too. Back then it was almost exclusively male too. And white of course.
Would you be able to make a video specifically about vacations? What kind of work is set? Are there deadlines? How many hours do you have to work? Etc etc. That would be so helpful!!
Oooo good idea! Sure will try get something planned xxx
I dont know anything about the British educatuon/university system (american here lol), but it's really interesting to learn about! Thank you for sharing!
Not sure why the algorithm brought this video up but I found it so interesting. I am 54 and had a working class upbringing in the north east of England. I ended up going to Durham university in an era when a small minority of state school students went to university at all, let alone one of the 'top' ones. Although Durham university is in the north east of England, there were very few students from the north east who actually went there at that time and it used to really upset me when people made fun of and mimicked my accent - so I started to lose it on purpose and then switch back to my natural accent when I went home. You'd really think things would have changed after all these years but it just goes to show how deeply embedded the class system is in our country.....
Something you touched on really briefly but I'm continually amazed by is the difference between state and private schools' expectations of pupils. I went to private school and now have kids of my own; whenever I'm talking to teachers at their (state) school the refrain is always "they're ok" or "they'll be ok" - to them that's the ultimate goal, make sure all the kids are "ok" - and internally I'm screaming "I don't want them to just be 'ok', I want them to thrive".
Maybe they're sending you a message about the ability of your children?
@@jamesjarrett52 you're missing the point. To them the phrase "they're ok" means "my work here is done." It doesn't matter whether my specific kids are doing well or badly.
At a private school, their attitude is "he's getting an A, so this is what we need to do to get him to an A*"; whereas at this state school at least the attitude is "he's getting a B, that's fine."
This was fascinating thank you I have been to both a state secondary and a private one and then onto two diff Unis. I can definitely relate to the idea that state schools do not encourage participation in class like asking questions you keep your head down and let the lesson proceed. I think its because classes are so big it can be hard to control the class. It's also seen as asking for attention. Whereas in private schools it's encouraged.
Thanks for talking about this. I come from the North-West too. I go to Bristol uni and can relate to pretty much everything you're saying! I feel my confidence is comparatively lower to most people in most situations - social and academic - and it's hard to find people that I have things in common with. It also *seems* like a lot of people aren't actually doing any work and don't care about their degree which can be frustrating to see if you've worked so hard to get there despite less attention and often lower standards in a state school. I also feel that northern students are sometimes patronised - I don't know why. I would not change my background though because I am glad to have known people from all walks of life in school. I think it makes me more humble and it's a good talking point when I meet people. It gives me hope to see people like you leading the way for us and being honest about these pretty common experiences! Would love to hear more of your thoughts on this in future x
This is the loveliest comment ever thank you so much!!! 😭❤❤ and ty for sharing your experience. All the best!!!
i went to st andrews from a state school and i still remember when i asked what a word meant in a tutorial and a posh girl laughed. (but the tutor, bless her, glared at her and just told me the definition)
Wow, I have felt like this sometimes when classmates had the opportunity to learn Latin/Greek in school, or their parents where academics themselves, but this is a whole new level... good and bad
Yes, don't get me wrong i LOVED Oxford but it's taken me this long to really process some of the ridiculous stuff 😂
people do latin and greek at school??? i swear i’m living on a different planet
Yes they do hahahah i learned that at uni
At least in Germany there are schools offering that, I did it at uni too. Also it was quite the bonding experience because you all suffer your way through Cicero 😂
I’m applying for arch and anth this sept and was wondering if you could do a vid about the course itself? :)
I have done for first and second year at least! Here it is :) good luck!!! th-cam.com/video/V8p33gnyNfQ/w-d-xo.html
I had an old school friend from the Northeast of England and was told to take speech lessons.
I myself have I studied in Sweden. I am doing a PHD in history and I met a researcher from Oxford. He was very rude when I said where I was born in England, That hurt, it really hurt. I am proud of myself overcoming bad state education in England, learning new languages and putting my mark in history studies.
You made some very valid points in this video.
What an excellent video! That little montage of private school dining halls is so telling. i went to SPC from a state comprehensive many years ago and was miserable. When my daughter (also a comp student) got an offer from Christ Church, I secretly hoped she'd turn it down. She ignored me, of course, and had a great time! To add to your points, some of the key differences were 1. she knew a "normal" person (me) who had gone and she realised she was as bright as anyone else there (and anyone who gets a place is good enough) 2. realising the private school gloss is just a surface thing - most of them are decent people too! 3. You can make any college "yours" by making an effort to befriend the porters, walk the college dog, get involved with things like being the cake fairy, and walking tall.
Yess totally agree!! It's nice to hear from a fellow alum so thank you for commenting:)
@@RosieCrawford thanks. Hope your postgrad is going well despite everything
i'm starting cambridge (if grades go to plan) and this was super helpful! thank you so much for sharing!
I'm a state school student from South Wales starting at Oxford in a couple weeks... came to rewatch this video because of how insightful and realistic you come across. Thank you for this honestly, the culture shock would be mad without it (and probably will be even after watching).
Aaah good luck I hope you have the best time!!
Good luck!! I’m from South Wales too!! I’m scared to go to university in England incase they find my accent annoying now 😭
I understand and relate to you. Originally from Australia, I graduated at Sydney Uni (top uni in Aus) and obtained a graduate role at KPMG. However growing up in lower demographic area in the South West Sydney - I was amazed and perplexed how others ‘schmoozed’/‘socialised’ so well about skiing in NZ/Japan, travelling Europe and talking about where they lived in the North Shore of sydney. I could never relate, and it was difficult to befriend them. And in some ways was being excluded simply because where I lived, and my high school despite achieving the same top university placement or graduate position as they have.
Fast forward 13 years later - now working and living in London at an American IB in Finance, I can say from the beauty of hindsight is - to own your journey and be proud of it.
It may seem difficult now, but stay true and consistent to your work ethic - because at the end of the day hard work will never be ignored and will be rewarded. And never give up your search for what you deserve - just like you have done to pursue your place at a top university, and also future career pathways.
Being from a grass roots background can be advantageous - you have the ability to see people in a different lense and understand the journey they have been. You will be able to bring this to light in hiring conversations in your team - and when the time comes, uplift others who have fought for their rightful place to deserve a role in that profession too.
Thank you so much for sharing! 💕
I can't believe that some people couldn't understand what you were saying! I'm not a native speaker, only learned English at 19 and your accent sounds so clear to me, there was no one word here that I would have problems understanding, even at 1.5x speed
I know right!
Hi Rosie, what a lovely video such a true reflection on going up to Oxford with a working class background. I wish videos like this had been available back in the 90s. I remember not understanding formal halls and not wanting to pay the extra costs. The outreach is much better now to state schools now compared to my day but as you highlight more support needs to be given to settle in to a new environment and the first term is not enough time to do it.
I went to Oxford 25 years ago and was the first person in my family to go to university from a working class family. Getting in was seen as the achievement and I only know now the preparation readiness for the experience many others had. I had to work through out the vacations although I never sought permission to do so as money was tight. I miss the beautiful buildings and town but having been an insider it is strange to go back as a tourist now.
Thank you so much for such a lovely comment!!
Jesus. How would they manage with someone who was *actually* foreign (ie didn't grow up in England or the UK). Ludicrous to think they would suggest someone adjust their accent to suit Them. Different ways of speaking and pronunciation aren't Wrong, they're just Different.
Had that experience (from Oz) - I just felt like that Martian anthropologist - so far outside the system that I felt how I was judged by them was amusing, but not really relevant. My college was brilliant, though - repeated reminders that ‘Oxford’ WAS whatever the collection of people there at the time - we WERE ‘Oxford’.
Rosie, You have done incredibly well and will continue to do so. You have what your posh friends will never have. You grew up with "real people" and had real life experiences. You did not live in a sheltered protected world. You came into the Oxbridge Game totally unprepared unlike most of your classmates and succeeded. My son did his undergraduate work at Columbia University and graduated "summa cum laude ". He did his MPhil at Oxford and ultimately received a "distinction" or whatever the terminology is at the MPhil level for the best (like a first at the undergrad level). My my American trained Phd daughter did her post doc in Edinburgh. Both, especially my son, found the Oxbridge style system dramatically different then the US system at prestigious US unis. You came into the Oxbridge system totally unprepared and conquered it. Your contemporaries for the most part had been steeped in it for years and years. When you do your MPhil all will come into focus very easily. I, who have too many academic degrees, came from a humble brackground. When I arrived at my undergraduate university I was initially overwhelmed in comparison to "prep school" trained classmates. I eventually caught up. At the time of this writing you may have completed your MPhil. God Bless and good luck as you return to the real world. Be true to yourself. Stay the person who you are in this video. The real world likes the real you.
Absolutely loved this video! Even just studying at a Russell Group uni myself, I found that being a state school pupil from the north was frowned upon - can’t imagine the extent of this at Oxford!
The fact that this is so widespread just shows how much of a disadvantage w/c groups are still at!! Thank you for sharing
I do actually really agree with the idea that state school prepares you for the independent work that’s expected of you at uni though. I did often find that students who went to grammar/private schools were almost complacent and expected to receive good grades but they’d never really had to put that kind of work in before!
Yesss! 100%
I went to a state school from North Yorkshire and then Cambridge. I had NO discrimination and neither did I feel in any way frowned on at University. It was the friendliest place (maybe I was lucky at my College) and nobody could have come from a more plebeian background than me..... That was my experience, and I met and was friends with students from abroad and from all sorts of schools in the U.K. from local comprehensives, to grammar schools and Direct Grant schools, and the great Public Schools. All the same....
My college was super friendly too & I don't think i was frowned upon either. Did you agree with any of the video?
Great video. Sad about the study drugs thing though. Have heard its becoming an issue in all unis. Don't! It's for losers who are not smart enough and if it gives them a leg up they will never gain confidence from their degree as they will always wonder if they had made it without the drugs. I also wish English working class / northeners would be able to relax a bit more and enjoy the cultural experience here, learn and don't make it unnecessarily awkward or have a chip on their shoulder. Bear in mind there are many foreign students here too who do not even speak English natively and might even have more of a gap to bridge and try to fit in as best as they can. So wear a gown with pride, take selfies of it you can giggle at later in life, go to formals and wikipedia what a fish knife is and enjoy ! Oxford is a magic place, not many of them left, if the people who are here (voluntarily no less) are happy to enjoy it and help to preserve its special traditions and lovely quirks for future generations to come :) As for financial hardships I can relate. Someone coming back at the beginning of term after a summer of getting massages and sun in Thailand might have an edge over you having worked night shifts. But you might experience more growth here and can carry your head even higher when you graduate. And you also cannot see how much parental neglect the rich kid has been suffering from, and that may haunt them in their personal lifes, after being dumped in a boarding school from a young age.. We all have prices to pay.
I am from a bluecollar family, and here in Austria univeristy is for free. Which means I didn't have to work for 1 year like you. I feel very blessed since I wouldn't have otherwise be able to afford it. Moving up the social ladder is definitely possible here, as I am now starting a PhD. I feel like 100yrs ago, I wouldn't have had those opportunities, especially as a woman.
I studied in a private uni in Mexico. Coming from a working class household, I felt a lot of the things that you said. Yet, I'm having this fantasy of doing a Master in Oxford, hehe.
I know my culture shock would be similar if I went to Oxford. I was actually thinking about applying to Oxbridge (not sure which one yet) and I'm glad you actually mentioned a lot of things that I'd never heard of before. Especially the language aspect scares me a tiny bit, since I'm not even a Native English speaker (yes, officially I've got the level C2. Still - there are "normal" British words I don't know). Thanks for making the video
I'm in my final year at UCL and come from a working-class, BAME background. I dealt with really bad imposter syndrome at UCL and only really got over it just before this year. I was considering Oxford for Masters but I think I might sit this one out ajshdsjfh
If you can go to Oxford, go to Oxford. It will open secret doors that you didn't even know were there. It's worth it.
I they they were pretending not to understand you as an indirect insult. I’m Canadian I can understand everything you say, so surely they could as well.
This is definitely true
Drugs - I agree with you. I graduated a teetotal virgin with law prizes, never mind not taking drugs or smoke cigarettes (not Oxbridge). My children don't even smoke. I don't even think it is a state v private school thing other than the rich can afford more of the best and worst of things. Avoid drugs at university.
The words point is fascinating. They say in the UK by age THREE years children from some homes know many fewer words than children from better educated homes. The reason my parents (NE England but state grammar schools) knew so many words and my grandfather who left school aged 12 was reading and public libraries, reading books for hours and hours and hours, book after book, a book a day at times and same for us as children. If we could get back that culture in the NE (and NW) of England of wanting to better yourself by reading books we could solve this words issue. Many of the obscure words I know are because of reading books from the 1700s, 1800s etc so many books all the time and so many words. You don't get that just chatting to people particularly if your family do not understand complicated and nuanced language. Read to your small children every night before bed even if the other parent is out working. Buy them books, hear their school reading even if you only have time because of work at weekends. read and read and read.
I go to Southampton University and come from Birmingham and literally feel the same way. Southampton is by no means as ‘posh’ as Oxford, but there is such a different culture in the South, and my accent absolutely sticks out. Then when I go home my accent sticks out again for being too ‘Southern’.
I wish more people opened up about the North/South divide at university because it is such a real thing - doubt I will ever settle in fully but it was definitely a good move for opening my eyes about the differences within the UK!
Thank you for sharing!!!
Yes accents are and will remain ' a problem ', Actually they are a standard excuse for bigotry and clannishness worldwide. I emigrated from UK to Canada in 1962, with a North-country bias in my otherwise ' standard ' English. Brit Immigrant males were advised to get rid of their old accents as quickly as possible. In females Brit English was considered more desirable in many quarters.
After nearly 60 years I can now claim that: when speaking English, I sound British to a Canadian ear, Canadian to a British ear. When I speak French in Canada I sound French-french, in France I sound Belgian. In Germany my German sounds French, but they are always complimentary and appreciate that I'm at least making the effort, which in English speakers generally is not common.
So, my advice to you would be, it's WHAT you say that should be important rather than how you say it ! Good luck to you.
It's so funny you say about the word essay. When I was 15 my mum went to university and started talking about essays, something I'd never heard of, despite sitting my English GCSEs at the time and writing 6 courseworks that year which in hindsight were essays. I remember asking my mum what essay stood for because I thought she was saying an abbreviation, S.A.
'Not sure about nowadays but, in the past, public school students, while undoubtedly intelligent, hard-working and (importantly) confident, also had something of an advantage re Oxford and Cambridge, in that public schoolmasters usually had themselves been to Oxbridge and often knew personally the admissions tutors at certain colleges. I'd be interested to know the current situation on this front.
From personal experience attending a state comp and working in an independent school, it still stands 😂
@@RosieCrawford I'd feared as much. Well done on your achievements to date and very best wishes for your further studies and career!
Such an interesting video, I love the cultural shock part as I am studying cultural studies myself and being from Spain and going to London to study my masters was also a huge shock for me like I wasn't expecting it because it is not like I am coming from China, from the other part of the world and I am landing in a place with a culture completely different from mine. But still, it was really shocking and it took me a while to adapt to their customs. I am really interested in lexicography, I would love a video related to Oxford jargon
That's so cool thank you for sharing! Cultural studies sounds so interesting, what are you hoping to go into?
@@RosieCrawford I am not sure yet, I am in furlough now and well, I'm back in Spain during the current situation, I would like to work as a curator or as a research assistant maybe. I am interested in Anthropology too. I have no plans yet....
Thanks for uploading this.
I'll share some of my own experiences that might be relevant to anyone reading.
I'm from a thoroughly working-class family. For the bulk of my teenage years, my parents had little or no income from employment.
None of my family went to university, except for one uncle and a 2nd cousin decades earlier.
Thankfully, I've always been interested in science of my own volition, and was realistically looking at attending Oxbridge for Physics.
In year 12, my A-level further maths class went on a trip for a 3-day 'open-day' at oxford, and actually visiting the university totally changed my choices.
I've never been more alienated by an experience than that visit to Oxford.
It's all very elegant, but it just screamed 'pretentious' to me, even though the people I met there were largely very nice.
Wealth and status, while not totally necessary - seemed to be a large part of the culture and background at Oxford.
I knew I'd be surrounded by people I just couldn't relate to, and in a high-pressure environment where I'd need good friends to get me through it.
I ended up applying elsewhere, and was very happy with my decision.
I visited Cambridge a little way in to my first year, to see my then-girlfriend.
Again, I was highly alienated by the aura of high-status that surrounded the place and the people there.
Yes, it was a hub for academic excellence.
No, it was not a place I could ever imagine living and studying in, because I just couldn't relate to many of the people I met.
I ended up at a fancy Peterhouse formal in a black band t-shirt, blue jeans and some trainers. Oh, and a gown, of course.
Huge respect for actually attending and experiencing it your own way.
"Weird" is the best way to describe my views on the two universities.
Thank you so much for sharing!
Thanks for sharing. There was a great documentary about an exchange of state school and private school pupils that highlighted perfectly the differences. In state school, it’s just about getting through with the curriculum. There is no awareness for the social side of life, the attitudes, dress codes and knowledge that come with high level environments. It’s like a world that does not even exit for most state school teachers and pupils. I have been introduced to this world through my partner really who has shown me the fancy restaurants, which wine goes with what, how to select a fitting starter, etc, with the result of me being much more confident in such situations. It’s that sort of confidence that you get from a good education and I’m not just referring to academic achievements but mostly also to behavior and language which is something you can learn.
Thanks Rosie, I have always been curious as to how people from ‘normal’ 😊 backgrounds would fair at such lofty places. Glad you have taken it all in your stride and are moving onto higher degrees. The video is excellent too. All the best for your future.
Hey I really love how you gave examples in every other vids and split into section . I'm grateful there are people like you who are willing to share their experience❤.I'm now watching all your videos from oxford to the Cambridge . And those school are really hard to enter as they are for top students , it makes me feel unmotivated ngl . Are there any credits requirements for entering ?
LAST BUT NOT LEAST I LOVE LOVE YOUR VIDS 🍡😍 hehe
This is really illuminating and kind of bewildering to me. It’s really a surprise to me that even British people struggle especially with the vocabulary part.
Depends on their education and we have all kinds of subtle clues eg she says "the" before a vowel whereas I would pronounce it "thee" as in "thee end" (not thu end). Not that any of that really matters. It is just clues we use to work out things about people.
Isn't the whole point of Oxbridge to train up and make networks of a privileged class to rule over the plebs? And of course some clever hard-working non-elite people get in but v few are 'let in to the club'. Hope you shake off all that nonsense and have a great life.
Thanks for making this rosie ♥️ It’s reassuring to know that other people have been through the same experiences as you and have thrived nonetheless 🌿
Also that ‘everyone else is on holiday and you’re just existing’ - sitting at home rn watching my friend jet off to their beachside second homes :/
Yess you've got this!!!!
Lool i know. It's the dream life & believe me if I could I would 😂
I am from north west and working class. I didn’t study here but moved here for adventure. I’ve worked at the uni and dipped in to some of the ‘scenes’. I felt exactly the same about what you say, like I was joining in halfway through. I tried to change myself to fit in but in the end I’ve gone back to my normal self. Your video is very truthful and I hope you stayed true to yourself, as an outsider it’s easy to try and change your background to blend in and belong but it doesn’t always work out well.
Thank you for the comment and for sharing your experience! I think my accent definitely changed most but it's gone pretty much back to normal since leaving :)
@@RosieCrawford I did find myself rounding my vowels and other little things. I wonder if you came across the RP ‘orf’ for ‘off’. As in ‘Are you orf?’ Various people tried to get me to say ‘Barth’ instead of ‘Bath’ and someone thought I was Scottish!! Hilarious. I’m as broad as anything again now and I’m still here!!
Oh yeah I've been asked to say 'bath' correctly but it just feels so wrong hahaha
*14:00** DRUGS & ALCOHOL* : that is pretty standard, the adderol in the stacks. but taking other drugs, and frankly not drinking alcohol too, does put you in different circles. -JC
i pick up accents around me so easily it’s tragic but i’ve got a naturally very common accent so if i get in thatll be fun
Thanks for sharing your experience, it was really interesting to hear about your experiences. I think the divide is a little less extreme in the US, but I've had some similar experiences. I went to a pretty underfunded public high school (so I believe the equivalent of a state school), and a public university for my undergraduate. I received Pell Grants throughout undergraduate, which seems to be the US version of Pupil Premium. I had to play some catch-up in undergrad because there's such variation in the quality of public schooling here, but it wasn't too extreme since a lot of people had similar backgrounds. Now however, I am doing my science courses for medical school at an Ivy League school (equivalent to the Russell group schools) in the same city as my undergraduate university. I've been shocked by the amount of family wealth so many students come from, and by the traditions that come with attending such an old school
omg this is the most brutally honest video i have ever seen! Well done for bringing attention to such an importnat issue Have no words to describe how amazing u are
Very interesting for people. For those watching 70% of people at Oxford and Cambridge now by the way went to UK state (i.e. no fees) school so the private school (fee paying) people are the minority even if for some it may not feel that way. By siblings went to Oxbridge from the NE of England (I did not try and my Head did not encourage it - no one had ever been to Oxbridge from our fee paying school until my younger sister went by the way - so that is fee paying school with NO Oxbridge entrants ever in NE England, until my younger sister).
Good luck with the masters.
Asian here and applying for UK masters (not Oxbridge though) and the first part of the video is already making me anxious lol cos if you struggled with the accent and speech, jeez, for an Asian student whose first language isn't English, how am I supposed to survive lol
But thanks so much for this video!
Hey! The accent that’s standard in the South of England (unlike Rosie’s accent) is more like the English you get taught as a second language :) Hopefully it won’t be too hard to get used to hearing!
I hope Oxford watches this and learns a few hard lessons
I went to the other university in Oxford not long after it gained uni status. The amount of snobbery that came from the old university was unbelievable. Brookes students were still labelled as going to the poly even though the institution was no longer called this. It was like Oxford could not accept that it was not the only university in the city.
Aah I'm sorry to hear that! Unfortunately you still hear a lot of comments like that despite Brookes being a top uni for a lot of subjects. Hope it didn't detract from your experience too much
@@RosieCrawford Brookes offers many courses that are just to young for the old university. Did not detract from my experience and those showing the snobbery were a little sad. Shows that they had not lived in the real world but in the bubble of public school.
I love in Oxford and am very proud of Oxford Brookes. It’s one of the best universities in Britain and offers really interesting and modern courses, anyone who exhibits snobbery towards it or any snobbery full stop is seriously wrong and needs their social brain required.
*32:00** STIPEND/BURS/SCHOLSHIPS* : totally. it is a tax dodge &/or (usually and) guilt money. i want to set up a bursary in my name, i think it is a cool way to give back. but youd be surprised how often scholarships are left bc no1 even applied. that is not to say applications are not always a hassle. but finding grants or funding or venture capital is always a hassle. it doesnt end. you worry about your side: theyve got their side sorted in offering the money in the first place. -JC
*28:30** PARENTS W MONEY DONT GIVE YOU MONEY* : yep. just bc...yep. yep. -JC
In my case, most of my state school friends could afford to go private but choose not too because of pier pressure. In Yr 7 we were learning about the battle of Hastings whereas they were only beginning too in Yr 8. Throughout my time in my private school we were always encouraged to do our best and too fail because then we know how to improve which is a mindset usually found in higher up unis. Whereas talking to my state school friends their school only talks about them achieving minimum grades and trying to go to a nearby uni. I don’t think it’s a class situation between rich and poor, in my opinion it’s the effort and funding of the schools that rob state schoolers from achieving their best. I know most of my state school friends could go to Oxbridge but don’t feel like they could because they haven’t been brought up in that kind of mindset which I think is really sad.
I totally agree with the schooling differences!
This is an overlooked traumatic experience suffered by so many young men and women in the name of higher education.
One of the most notable working class Oxford alumni was Dennis Potter. He was one of the best writers in Britain post war. He wrote a play about his Oxford years called 'Stand up Nigel Barton'. He certainly preferred the IDEA of Oxford to its reality.
All my friends have a Yorkshire accent, and I am the only one with a southern one. People at my school think I’m posh
Great vid BUT...........BLANK the naysayers from either side(in your home area or Oxbridge). Frightened sheep. Leap over them all. Focus on your passion. Everything(life) is ahead of you.
Rosie, you don't sound very northern to me. When I was at Oxford fifty years ago my best friend was the son of welder from Runcorn; you couldn't have found a more working class family, and his accent was much more northern than yours. As far as I am aware no one ever mentioned it at Oxford. He married a Cambridge graduate; I think there was less division then than now.
I really found your video interesting. I would never have had your courage to go to Oxford, I would never get in to start with but I come from a working class background and went to a state school so can connect with that. I tried University when I was 18 but it wasn't for me but I did have other students and teachers mention my accent alot which made me self conscious alot and knocked my self confidence and that was only a Modern University! I wouldn't survive going to formals or being around pretentious people. Also I worked as a Carer for 20 years and looked after many people with drug and alcohol problems. I'm glad you stayed away from drugs as they do kill alot of people both rich and poor. Rich people can afford a better purer quality of drugs which hasn't been mixed and contaminated with other substances so they generally live longer than drug users on the streets who take drugs that have been mixed in with washing powder or god knows what. A nurse once told me with drug users and alcoholics that once they've taken drugs too many times for a long period of time their brain cells die and they get brain damaged and lose their inhibitions completely and lose their decision making abilities so they cannot stop using, in other words they're too far gone to be saved. I've also looked after people with Korsakoffs syndrome which is alcohol induced dementia. It's awful. Money is no object to these rich students and they don't understand and neither care for those who are poorer. They grow up in that environment and are conditioned to think like that, they internalise their environment. I've worked in customer service jobs and served rich people and most are snobbish but I just used to do my job but never was friendly with them. I didn't care for them. Most people wouldn't have the courage to put themselves in difficult situations like you experienced as they would be too self conscious. The world is often unfair but it's often best to stay away from people who are pretentious as they often are very ignorant and don't know any better.
This might be the closest thing to you getting an understanding of the experience of how we ethnic minorities of the UK feel living and navigating life in England although some of us have been here for 4 to 5 generations yet treated as outsiders for not only our class, race and religion and yet we still strive to succeed coming from deprived backgrounds.
thank you so much for this video!! its absolutely scared me shitless cause i’d never really thought about how much of a disadvantage i’m gonna be at- i guess i’ve tricked myself into feeling clever and bored being at a state school in the north where im not really pushed that much. thank u for the food for thought
That is a big mood honestly. All the best!!
Rosie Crawford thank you!!
I just re-read your comment. You CAN DO THIS & you DESERVE TO BE THERE. Never doubt yourself. It is humbling for sure, but do not let it knock your confidence xxxxx
I know it’s a bit late to reply, but go for it. Look if you are doing well enough at somewhere your not being pushed imagine how well you can do at a uni which pushes you. Also whilst private school may teach with smaller groups and such, it doesn’t mean they are inherently smart. I went to a public school, and yes this teaching benefited the few who were natural born academics, but for most it doesn’t make a difference because they don’t care. So if you are someone who is applying oxbridge, well then don’t delude yourself that you are a big fish in a small pool, because doing well in a school which doesn’t push you is more impressive than doing well in a school which does push.
oh Rosie I like how you are so honest and that you make people realize that people that go to oxford don't just come from private schools and Grammer schools
Interesting video! I was at The Queen's College Oxford, 1994-97. Although I am British, I had never lived in Britain before I went to Oxford, so most things were very foreign to me, but I really enjoyed it.
It's funny you mention the Northern accents, because Queen's has historical Northern connections, and your kind of accent was quite common in my college. One of my mates there was from Sunderland, with a really strong accent and nobody made any fuss about that. Maybe things have changed since my days, or maybe that was just my college. Who knows?
So proud of you, Rosie. ❤ In my book, you're actually way better than all those who didn't have to struggle, work for money during the vacations or multitask with studies and jobs, figure out the weird jargon, the right fork, all of it. Wishing you happiness and success, however you define that for yourself.
This experience reminds me so much of that famous film "Educating Rita".....the Class system in the UK is still very real!
I studied my masters in law at Oxford after Hull University and as a Northerner. The two experiences were very different. I met some amazing people though and loved the sport opportunities. I wish that I could go back with the confidence that I have now as an older adult in terms of the tutorials though. The fact that I was good at writing essays helped me get in and win the scholarship, it was awkward being in the tutorial situation in terms of the oral discussion (for postgraduate). They didn't weigh up that ability in my admission and I was a shy young lady back then. Such a shame really as it made things really awkward with some tutors. I would say that my background is middle class, but I was stunned by the expensive holidays that some people went on over Christmas. I didn't worry about the rent then, but the world has changed and cost of living has increased.
I’m listening to Fiona Hill’s audiobook right now, and she writes about her experience-it really echoes yours! Despite hers taking place a generation before. I’m just an American gal who finds these stories really interesting and valuable to hear, so thanks for posting 😀. And congrats on all your hard work and success!
In regards to the accent and vernacular, in the states; particularly with the Black community, the nature of accent and word choice changing in the environment, gets referred to as Code Switching.
As well many who receive a college education and then return to their local get the same negative energy of like why do you sound this way.
Long story short you’re not alone in those feeling
I know this is ancient, but do you think mansfield or wadham is better for a minority or more disadvantaged background?
Very interesting! I agree with a lot of what you say and am surprised Oxford is still like this.I went to a women's college in Oxford, from a State girls' grammar school in 1976. The practical, unassuming buildings of the colleges that used to women only in those days are a very far cry from the older richer colleges that used to be men only. I think your college is one of the most Oxfordish colleges you could have chosen! Having said that I remember being socially daunted with the first 'sherry with your tutor' . We dumbstruck state school girls were so grateful for the input of the public school girl among us who talked loudly about her skiing holiday! But In spite of being daunted in so many ways by the enormity and unreality of being At Oxford, I , like you , found the place utterly beautiful and magical, and I still do
I deliberately tried to only get 3 o levels so I would not have to do A levels in sixth form. Hated school as it only contained girls. Boring.
I understand you as an American. Your tutors like dishing out microaggressions.
It was so interesting to hear your insight on this 💖
Glad you enjoyed it!
Asking questions. The reflex, the natural inclination is so easily squashed. It is the secret sauce. I went to a mixture of private and state then public and then state school. But I was a contrary pain in the *&%^ so I learned to ask questions. It's SO IMPORTANT.
5:45 this is so true! my sister went away to uni (nowhere near as posh as Oxford) and came back with an RP accent its so funny
I am working towards going to UCL to study an MSc in Archaeology and your advice has been invaluable..
Oh.. and I am 61..!
Best of luck!
As state school educated parents of two children who we sent to private 'prep' school I can relate to the completely ,almost 'other planet' , difference in attitude and ethos of the private schools.
My son, a year younger and fairly precocious anyway adapted to the whole experience pretty quickly. My daughter, by this time beginning second year junior was a complete year behind her peers at the beginning!
She rose to the challenge and they both did very well.
I remember picking them up from their first day at this new school and , for a moment, thinking I had kidnapped somebody else's kids as they were full of what they were going to do, where they were going go on trips to. The energy was palpable. Completely different from when they nervously arrived that morning.
They went on to private school (daughter) and Grammar (son) and much of their effectiveness since has been the ability and confidence to hold their own ground in the world of work since.
What sold us was the professional, confident and able way a final year student guided us around the school.
I can identify with so much of this! Yesterday I watched programmes about state and private school head teachers swapping places, which was so interesting. It's a different world at 'public schools' and no wonder they can fit in so easily at a place like Oxford.
Even though it's now 29 years since I went to Oxford (hard to believe, it seems more like 15!) your experience sounds so similar to mine. I love the old buildings... accents was something people discussed (I would not have been able to guess where yours comes from it almost sounds 'normal' to me with hints of a northern accent, but then some of my friends here in Wales sound very much like you!)
Formal dinners were so awkward as I was afraid of how hard it is to have good table manners. (The first time I asked what the broccoli was because I had never seen it before - it was not a common vegetable in the 1980s!) They were every Tuesday in my college but were optional and I think I tended to go about once a term. I much preferred cooking for myself.
As for drugs, I never came across anyone into that, only maybe once a friend was harming herself and might have been using medication. I had something better than a better 'study drug' - baking choc-chip cookies and selling them to my friends to raise money for charity. We all thought they were great 'revision fuel'. Most played music in their rooms to help concentrate on studying. That was new to me, as I thought that would be a distraction, but I ended up doing it myself (cassette tapes!!) sometimes to drown out the sound of music from other people's rooms!
We didn't have the benefit of laptops and google - the computers in college only had Windows 3.1 or the operating system before that and I didn't know I had an email address or how to access it until a few weeks after my tutor sent an email about handing in some work...!
PS about essays - I am surprised they use that term in a primary school. It was something we started to learn about in first year in secondary school. The term 'essay crisis' became one of those 'Oxford words and phrases' I heard a few times, when someone has left writing an essay until the day they are supposed to hand it in! I don't remember many other Oxford words... oh maybe 'subfusc'!
Social life to me meant having a few friends around to talk about interesting things, eat cake and play board/card games or go out to G&D's (sometimes at 11pm when the pub crowd were going home!)! There were plenty of special interest clubs to choose from and nice parks to visit.
Just be proud of the fact that you are a working class woman and you made it to Oxford.. Never be ashamed of your accent..
The Class system stinks in 2021 in my opinion.
I went to a secondary modern school we certainly used the word essay,Cannot understand why you have never heard of it.oh lol you made little me feel clever
My school just only ever used the word assessment 😄 even at A Level any long answer questions that were effectively essays were just called "30 mark questions". Glad I could be of service hahah
I can assure you Christ’s Hospital is 1000% less posh than Oxford University 😂
lol that may be the case as I know there’s a lot of scholarships. However, the point is that students who move on from schools like CH to Oxford will already be used to old and strange traditions, therefore making Oxford less overwhelming and alienating
This video was wonderful, non biased and so informative. Thank you for making it.