it'll all change the minute they step into that entourage. because if you won't go along with what the masses agree on within that entourage, the individual will eventually get pushed aside... in short, they usually don't last long unless they'll taint some of their morals etc
@@cupiderstunt the last people who should be politicians are the ones in it for fame and salary, but it seems that's who we end up with, and I think that puts the ideal people (perhaps like this lady) off going into it
At first she said, when discussing PPE's reputation, she definitely did not want to go into politics then on the next segment she becomes more honest and said she 'probably' won't go into it. She wants a political career. You don't study PPE at Oxford without wanting a political career. Doesn't mean she'll manage it but the civil service or the Beeb will suffice
The girl talking about needing more plumbers is absolutely right... but we also need more doctors! It's insane that junior doctors are still having to fight for wages that are even vaguely approaching a fair level!
@@chimelanwamba8510 good luck arguing with people who have zero idea what they're talking about, I hope you get the pay you deserve, which is far more than 60k anyway
This is because the UK has the same problem as the US: viewing university as a training school for corporate jobs. It is not. It never was. University is where intellectually-inclined people go to study, to become scholars. It is not meant to train them in business or politics or even engineering. It is meant to teach them how to survey the scholarship of others and create their own scholarship in their chosen field. Of course this can be useful to corporations, but so can the work of people with a practical education. We are ruining the finances of students because they are paying universities to guarantee them better salaries in the workforce, and that's not what universities are set up to do. Stop insisting everyone needs a university education! Stop admitting people because of who their parents are! Stop perpetuating the lie that the university-educated are better at everything. They are only better at scholarship (and only that if they did well at uni).
Not really. You need architects, lawyers, dentists, electrical engineers, chemical engineers, petroleum engineers etc. Many people who take academic an degree then do a vocational masters degree like MBA or Masters in Finance, Masters in Real estate investment etc.
@@davidc4408 no kass is STILL right. at the end it's expertise as scholarship that uni trains you for. taking history classes in uni and they teach you to do further research in niche later on, hope that helps
I agree mostly with what you said. However, for engineering, I would argue that you need a university degree (except maybe software engineering)... Here is why most engineering fields would require you to know some sciences which would require to know some maths and by that I mean you would usually need to know linear algebra, real (and possibly complex) analysis, numerical analysis (optimisation), probability and statistics, and so on. Already one course like "real analysis" would cover multiple concepts like calculus, vector calculus, ordinary and partial differential equations, series (e.g. Taylor, Fourier, etc), etc. You would then need to learn the sciences for your specific field, basically how to apply the maths you learned and the various laws of that field. Engineering is not the same as being a technician (like a plumber or electrician); they solve different set of problems.
That's the myopic view of an academic. Many people go to university or other forms of higher education to develop skills and knowledge in a particular field. Their time as a student affords them the opportunity to do so for 3-4 years, with said knowledge and skill acquisition being their primary focus (one would hope) during that time. If they've chosen their field of study wisely, they are then able to apply that knowledge and skills vocationally once qualified. This is how the majority of people view higher education. Being a good scholar as you put it, is only an incidental means to an end. Unless your end is a career in academia
I'm doing a master's degree at the moment, and to be honest, I'm pretty miffed that after two years of studying (part-time) and 11 grand, I'm still having to create a portfolio of work in my free time, using software that I've paid for myself, to show off the practical skills to employers.
Its kind of the nature of the beast. It was moronic of Blair to suggest 20 years ago that everyone goes to Uni. Thats a nice sentiment but in reality it just makes a degree worthless and sadles people with debt searching for other ways to stand out. We either have a society where only a fewer ‘deserving’ number go to Uni and get a benefit or one where everyone can go so who gives a shit on your degree. Problem is people expect both.
Here’s the thing about manual (skilled) work. Yes you can earn a ton of money and be able to get relatively well paid work anywhere/time, and no, the AI’s not going to take your job, but it’s really hard on the body. I was an electrician for 25 years and I’ve got neck, shoulder, back, hip and knee problems and so have all older tradesman. I literally know 5 guys in their fifties who have to walk downstairs backwards coz their knees are shot
Absolutely! The financial strategy needs to be different so there’s something before the physical is too much and an exit strategy of moving into management or career change later. Plus decent occupational therapy and H&S to minimise physical strain. Unfortunately there’s not career and financial coaching tailored to the trades.
This is why I'm sceptical of the people who say: "we need more plumbers"... ok, I get it, but who's going to volunteer? They say it, but then why don't they pursue such jobs? The simple answer is: because they're physically straining jobs. I mean, it's easy to talk about the money, but few people ever talk about the comfort and let's be honest, most of us seek comfort. I don't know if it's good or bad, but it is what it is. In theory, we all want more plumbers, but in practice, few of us want to actually do the job. I work in an office, sitting at a computer. I might earn less than a plumber, but then again I'm not getting dirty or breaking my back working... so, I'd say it's a fair deal, as far as I'm concerned. If AI takes my job... it is what it is. I'll just do something else. It's a risk I'm willing to take.
True. Im a stone mason and have been in the trades since i left college. Im only 30 but my back and knees are pretty bad. And trying to sleep or long car journeys are painful. Im trying to work out how to make money doing something else cos i cant imagine what i will be like in another 20 years.
As someone who has worked in an office and now works in a trade I'd have to respectfully disagree, my health was shocking when I was office based I was stressed I ate badly and had a really shitty back from sitting at a desk all day and was tired all the time. I'm a multi trader now and I'm physically active, I actually enjoy my work (most of the time) and I'm doing something that people value (most of the time) it does take its toll on your body of course, but you just have to adapt as you get older I'm 54 and also have ankylosing spondylitis but I'm much healthier than when I worked in an office mentally and physically, but maybe I'm just lucky.
@@bamberlamb6512 i have never worked in a office i have allways had hands on jobs. But i will agree on the general the health thing, everything but my back and knees is in tip top condition 😂. Also stone works pretty rewarding mentaly to make something pretty that will be there for the next 50 or more years.
I'd love to hear what students at Cambridge and a Russel Group university would say. You found some really thoughtful students, but it would be great to hear from some of those who went a few years ago too.
Former Cantab here. I have a decent job as a software engineer, but lots of these jobs are hard to find outside London. I'm also making half as much as a colleague who did an apprenticeship and now has 10 years' industry experience in his mid 20s. At the same time, I know people from uni who work for finance companies in London, who make four times what I earn despite being much the same age as me.
@dotsgrey That's probably because you had Cambridge on resume, but the same wouldn't apply with other RG unis. A first from Newcastle/Liverpool/Cardiff does not mean it takes more effort than a 1st in Bath/Lancaster/Loughborough (it's a different story with Oxbridge, Imperial, Warwick). I've compared the workload and course material (I've had friends find RG and non RG unis I mentioned, we all shared resources and exam past papers) others in RG for my subject (Maths) and found there not being a difference at all in terms of difficulty, depth and workload. These unis also requested identical grades in their entry requirement.
@@alphamikeomega5728 to get the very highest paying software engineering jobs early on you do need to have gone to oxford/cambridge/~imperial and most if not all FAANG-tier companies certainly prioritise on but not require oxbridge/imperial in early career
In America, they discovered that the people who benefited the most from going to Ivy League universities are the people who were poorer to start with, and the main benefit wasn't the education, but the contacts they make. Which suggests the whole thing is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oxford and Cambridge take a significant number of well-connected, rich people, so the chances of a good number of them going on to do something notable are extremely high. But that would have been the case regardless of whether they'd gone there.
I discovered the same thing in politics... in Eastern Europe. A lot of people assume that you have to be rich and have connections before entering politics, but I noticed that I, a random guy, got to meet MPs, local councillors, and even 2 Prime Ministers and a President, just attending regular party meetings and participating in campaigning. And my parents aren't exactly trillionaires. I even got to run for office once and again, it's not like I'm anyone special. Now, I'm not sure if this is good that even someone like me had a chance (0 connections) OR bad bad that someone like me had a chance (I'm not a genius, so should I have had a chance?)... but it is what it is.
@@octavianpopescu4776 Discovered the same thing here in South America, nepotism and contacts are more important than anything else everywhere where Capitalism is the established economic model, a system that rewards corruption.
I think classism here is so strong the benefit of sending a working class kid to a posh school would be diluted. As George Carlin put it, "It's a big club and YOU'RE not in it."
Interesting he mentioned the arms industry, because my cousin got straight As and A-level and instead of going to university, went to BAE Systems. Over the next 6 or 7 years, they paid for her entire education up to masters level.
Some of the few degree apprenticeships are in defence, I agree, and the folks that come out are some of the best at their job at their age imo. And no debt of course. Grads come out and take a year to learn, and they lack practical skills and experience (at least, I did) From, a rando on the internet
Imagine your education was funded by the weapons industries, one of the most corrupt industries in the world today and is to blame for a lot of conflict happening in the world, not exactly something to be proud of is it?
all that,just for her to end up sweeping up and peeling potatoes in Macdonald's for four quid an hour!she may as well have gone to mums and tots and drank coffee with the other mums!
Children of wealthy families do the Oxford courses with limited vocational prospects (Classics, Art History etc) that "working-class" people would never pay for, and then with their rubber stamp and connections go to work for a high-paying consultancy firm.
I doubt this a lot as such firm presumably want competent people unless you are writing everyone up there is sycophantically incompetent. Classics for example is pretty awesome. Also, who cares? The working-classes have a better chance than ever before to reach high-society.
Even when poor people do those elite degrees they will find work. One of the main reasons for this is that the history degrees those that participate in will cover real history, philosophy and study the true aspects of human society. Their coverage of philosophical logic will trounce most other degrees main modules. You may find a topic like Latin to be boring or not applicable to the real world but it will allow anybody who reads it to have an understanding of the bedrock of western law and civilisation. It is much more than social connections.
@@Art-is-craft The point is that less wealthy people are less likely to apply for those courses, which makes it easier for others to get in and get that Oxford place. To be fair, Oxford is actively trying to broaden its intake.
University is absolutely worth it if you study something that equips you with in demand skills. Or, you have FU money and you can indulge in a passion degree because you're not depending on it for employment opportunities. Unfortunately, people have bought into the myth that simply having a degree = satisfying, well paying job. A degree isn't just what you do after 'A' levels. It's an investment, so invest wisely.
Kids are sold places like Oxford as somewhere that will set them up for life. For many, it does, or provides a pathway to high earning. But equally, for many it doesn't. Kids are fed an idealised view of these institutions from teachers and the universities' own prospectus material (material that should be declared as little more than advertising, but isn't.) Kids are then expected to make an "informed choice" about what and where to study? Kids make the best choice they think is right for them under the circumstances, but in my opinion it's a crapshoot. Telling kids to 'invest widely' is a pretty myopic comment.
It’s such a shame that the arts are once again the preserve of the rich. It was nice to hear what intelligent people from working class backgrounds had to say, esp since they were the ones affected by societal decision. Oh well
It is worth it if you make it worth it, going to university doesnt miraculously mean youll have an awesome job, all the money in the world etc. University is probably 5% of the knowledge youll get in actual work that you need. Almost everything comes after you start working.
apprenticeship still allows you to head back to school if you want. Its not like it prevents you from doing it. counts towards ucas points as well depending what level you got.
@@h3nry_t122 Quite. One of my school mates ended up with a Master's in Electrical & Electronic Engineering after an apprenticeship as an instrument technician through the BTEC route. Went to college at 16, avoided 'A' levels, Bachelor's and Master's paid for by his employer. He's done extremely well for himself nd he followed the apprentice route.
Something not really touched on here is also that once you've got the degree, a lot of the more exclusive career paths expect you to do an unpaid internship which essentially filters out anyone who isn't already able to live comfortably on existing wealth and support.
@@DannyHodge95I think it may still happen at law practices, where interns are “employed” for maybe two years during which time they complete their Articles. This on the job training period is unpaid but is a prerequisite to applying for a paid position as a junior lawyer in a chambers.
Not really as much any more The majority of major finance institutions offer paid internships etc. paid internships are extremely common and are more so used to be able to see if someone could work in the industry without the full time contract
That practice is very common in the US, recently they had to require congressional interns to be paid, since only wealthy, well connected young people were getting those opportunities.
I went to university at the age of 26. I didn't finish my degree. It was worth it. I have had a very different upbringing to every person I met in university. What I learnt from my course, the important stuff, had nothing to do with the course itself. I learnt how to autonomously learn. Nothing in my entire life has been more valuable than the ability to learn effectively. I was in my second year by the time I realized, I no longer got anything from the course or the material. So I left. I think university can only supply what you as an individual demands from it. For me, it was independence. It was all I needed. I'd recommend it, but only as an experience that can be achieved elsewhere.
University is worth it, if you have an interest in a subject area it allows you an environment to study that topic, learn from experts in their field and study with others that have that shared interest. Students also meet and collaborate with people on a wide range of programmes and diverse interests. If the programme is taught well, no matter the subject, students should leave university not only as experts in their field but as strong communicators, problem solvers, people who are capable of applying logical critique to the information that they are dealing with etc etc. All of these are extremely valuable skills that can be taken into a variety of different work place settings. Universities also tend to be hubs of diversity in cultural and (depending on the institution) socioeconomic backgrounds, more people need experience of this to breed tolerance in our society, particularly the upper classes. The one area where it falls down is the belief that a degree should automatically equal an expert job in a specific discipline. It won't for everyone, students shouldn't pigeon hole themselves like that, but instead be confident that whatever career they end up choosing after university they will have a really valuable skill set and experience to draw on. A friend of mine went all the way through the education system, completed a PhD and worked at a university, before quitting to pursue her hobby (baking) as a career and now runs a successful cafe and bakery chain locally. She still draws on all of the skills that she built through those experiences, even though she is no longer doing science in a lab.
In my view you should do what you're good at and/or like doing. Not everyone is cut out to be a plumber, not everyone is cut out to do a job requiring strong intellectual skills. There's more to life than money.
I was asked by my 8yr old nephew if I was rich, I answered what kind of rich does he mean, health rich, cash rich or rich in life, he looked confused, I told him a little secret, cash rich is the most boring, there are plently of billionaires who have no life at all and that's not what life is meant to be about
this, basically. A lot of the talk about 'waste of time degrees' misses the point. I went back to uni for a term as part of teacher training and it was a joy to be able to spend a day or an afternoon in a library, reading, if I wanted to.
The guy with the wooly hat and denim jacket knows the score, nice to know that Oxford isn't 100% full of spoilt rich kids and those who actually have a brain and a conscience
@@Icanbacktrailers A young student in University is too young to comment on the topic of "university is worth it"? What are you going on about? Everything that young man said was spot on ya' ageist plum.
@@TiffanyTwisted92 he’s still at university. He hasn’t begun his career yet. He has no personal experience to know if it’s worth it. He hasn’t witnessed his peers careers yet. His parents are from a different generation who began their careers in a different job market and are now in the late stages of their careers. People aged between 25 and 40 would know a lot more about the usefulness of university that this guy
Nice to see that the trend of attendees at Oxford has been changing and it's no longer some big rich boys clubs with serious neoptism, all of these people seem pretty grounded and reflective in reality not some little acdemia bubble world and there was a serious low arsehole vibe with all of them.
Maaaaaate, dont be naive. All the posh old twats are there, they dont talk to Joe on the street. An old friend of mine went to Oxford. The stories he told me of the elitism was insane, they are bastards.
Yes but the privately educated make up around 35%-40% of those who achieve 3As at A Level and 17% of those who attend sixth forms. So Oxford here is mostly just reflecting inequalities in the education system before adulthood rather than discriminating ontop of that. The selection process is very meritocractic. @@fhmcateer
@@Pilgrim1st I'm very familiar with the selection process and I agree with the argument concerning underlying educational inequalities being expressed at university level. Although these institutions could quite easily alter their required grades for students from disadvantaged backgrounds or non-private schools as well...
As a society we have been taken in by the false narrative that a degree should lead to a well paid job and is worthless if it doesn't. This is nonsense. Mass university education benefits everyone by creating a well informed population who are better able to discern good quality information and therefore make better decisions (this does not necessarily work for each individual but the population as a whole). We only question the value of degrees because we have to pay for thousands for them and usually incur heavy debt. When degrees were free students did not have to burden themselves about whether their degree was worthwhile, and that's as it should be. I have just graduated in my 40s having already had a trade based career so I have seen both sides of this.
Very well said! The only people who benefit from a less well educated populace are populist leaders who don't want a critical electorate that can think for themselves. As you say there's so much more to university than just getting a degree and getting a job. The connections, societies , opportunities to be exposed to ideas, chances to do things that you don't really get after graduating are well worth it. Even if we ignore those intangible benefits and take into account the expansion of university graduates, there's still a massive earnings benefit when comparing graduates with non-graduates so it's pretty much guaranteed to be worth it. So the argument that it's a waste of money just doesn't hold water.
You are right, but unfortunately university is expensive. If all it offered was being well informed but not necessarily lead to higher earnings then no one would go.
Degrees were never 'free'. Do the lecturers or cleaning staff work for free? Who builds, maintains and heats the buildings? Nothing of value produced by others is free. Someone somewhere has to perform productive work to either directly provide the service or pay taxes to indirectly provide it if subsidised by government
@@buzz1ebee All the data backs this up. I would be wary of the populist point, everyone is allowed to vote today, if you want an intellectual barrier (I would support this.) then ummm be wary.
Well at the end of the day people have to earn a living, don't they? I mean I feel you, in an ideal world the actual learning experience should and would be much more worth than the kind of job you get after, if the latter didn't directly or indirectly influence your lifestyle and livelihood in general.
Degree apprenticeships are great, but they're also really hard if the uni is running the course properly. You get min 20% of your time off the job (or 80% on) and a three year degree streched over four years means that you're working 75% on your degree. So a workload of 155% makes for a tough 4 years.
The one at my workplace is somehow squeezing it to 3 years. Basically, they will work a third term at uni over summer, instead of the usual two terms, aligned with the full time students. Even more tough, but an even better career move, because you're into the workplace at higher pay by 21 years old, for some.
@@pandanation6202 yeah good on them. If they can manage the workload then it definitely has it's perks. Going for jobs with 3 years industry experience and a degree at 21 is a great start.
@@ATH-camAccountName The reason for all of this the lack of disconnect between the real world and academia. I would say on most degrees that only 20% of the modules/classes are relevant to the degrees title. It is not uncommon to find degrees in economics and finance full of useless modules on sociology, psychology and media. Which when questioned will get a response like it brings a rich and diverse academic experience.
Whatever Degree you have, having one from Golden triangle Universties will open doors. My undergrad from a former poly and postgrad show very different levels of respect.
Such degrees from less prestigious colleges tend to require lots of work experience so as to be considered. Which then begs the question why bother with the degree of experience is the qualifier?
It's only the fourth-year maths student who really seemed to belong in university, and he got in on a scholarship. He was also by far the most likable of the interviewees.
I didn't attend university ( just A levels ) but have interviewed university students for part time positions within a retail environment. Those who just saw it as beneath them we didn't recruit but a select few saw it as an opportunity to apply skills they would learn which could be transferred into their chosen field. Some even stayed with the company and became senior leaders.
Interesting that those who took the benefits of being paid whilst learning transferable skills even in a part time role became successful in their chosen field .They would need the qualities you list also but maybe not the approach ( dead end job ) to secure the opportunity in the first place.@@pjl8119
University is still a valuable option if you have a good reason for going. Most students go because the schooling system is geared for it and doesn't really provide any other options. The issue is however that when everyone has a degree it's not really that important anymore. I'm currently doing an MSc because my job requires it - but I wish my school had taught me that I could have gone straight into work witho just A levels and had the employer send me for an undergrad and masters through a DA. I feel if more young people chose a course (not necessarily a university course) based around what they will find valuable doing in a career they'd opt more for apprenticeships etc. Most of the people I went to university with either ended up insomething they hate, working in retail/bars, or gave up and became a teacher. If schools opened the door for more people to go into a career field they enjoy I think the current university business model would reduce and become more valuable again.
I absolutely loved uni. I worked in my field for a decade (healthcare), but left because shift work made me ill. I now work in admin and have better work life balance. Uni is a business, and you are paying for an experience. There are no guarantees.
"You are paying for an experience", 100% correct. It's basically an expensive amusement park for kids who want to delay adulthood, where the focus is to keep the "customer" entertained and sell a dream. The usefulness of what you learn or how employable you will be are irrelevant and often times omitted on purpose to sell you the course.
You rich people are paying for the experience. Those who comes from a struggling family like me are paying for the paper that let whoever wants to hire me, know that I learn this thing they want to hire me for, for 4 years. Yeah there are no guaranteed but you can increase your chance by doing internships make connection (this means making friends with the right people, not just exchanging numbers and business cards), pick up as much professional work as you can for your portfolio, and doing research with your professors in those 4 years.
@@Dave_of_Mordor You missed the point completely. People do join with the hope of having a job at the end of it, but the opportunities after uni are grossly exaggerated and the ROI is often negative. By the time you finish your 4 years and cover yourself in debt, the chances that what you learned is not obsolete and that the employers you want to simp for will not outsource/automate or pay slave wages for that position are pretty low. This not counting the fact that they might just ignore you altogether for lack of experience, or your education might not suffice to meet the requirements of the job market. Except for a few professions, unis are debt traps and a glorified lottery ticket. Degrees are a dime a dozen nowadays, if everyone has one, that's nothing special in the eyes of the employers and the bar gets raised, and the rat race continues.
@@clipkut4979 i didn't miss anything. you're just so engrossed into your belief about college that you're unwilling to take another perspective. also nothing you wrote has anything to do with what i wrote.
I don't know what I would have done without my degree, did it later in life (late 20's) went from living in one of the worst towns in the whole country to a situation where I'm now an educator teaching the subject I love to 16-18 year olds. The only shame is it's FE Public sector work and we've not had a pay increase for 12 years or more and we've seen the sector depleted of staff and resources.
Dude in the hat is right, for most jobs a degree tells an employer that you can show up when required to and do the work. For many corporations what the particular degree is in isn't that important.
@@acidrain55 I think it depends on the role. If the skillset required is fixed you would be correct, but what if the role will grow to encompass other areas where neither candidate has any relevant experience? Then it may not be so clear cut. For example, you are creating automation software and candidate A has done this, and only this, for 6 years since leaving college. Candidate B is straight out of university but did their thesis on automation and has a clear understanding of the concepts behind the things you want to automate in the near future. You are balancing what B loses in productivity now vs the chances A may not be able to do all you need at the required level going forward. These are the kind of decisions managers have to make all the time.
I'm pretty sure sylvester stallone was quoted saying basically the same thing. I can't say I've had good experiences with uni students who have an attitude of looking down on people
@@csbdcsbd8728 I can't say I've had a good experience with university students who have an attitude of looking down on people either, but I can say that I've had a good experience with university students who don't have that attitude.
i dunno 20 an hour beats 18 an hour after 10 years of crap jobs and 5 years of uni, most people go to uni because theyre sheep. you only need a degree once you know you need one to progress further in your chosen profession. 99% of these kids have no idea what job theyre wanting to d, so uni is obviously a waste to most of these people lol.
@@calistayasmin3833 she’s a snob who seems aggrieved those she deems beneath her are earning what good office jobs earn. I’m interested how you can argue otherwise. Why should it only be lawyers and drs who earn top money. We do need drs as much as we need plumbers. So why the agitation at the latter group earning so much?
My school's metric for success was the percentage of students gaining university admission. They also "invited" you to apply for Oxbridge - that is to say you could only get a reference if they deemed you were made of the right stuff. The career counsellor at the school did nothing but ask us what course we would be interested applying for. I was so pressured into going to uni I ended up choosing the wrong course for me. I hope it's different these days. A lot of the most successful and happy people I know never went to university. I wish I knew what I know now!
There's a lot of negativity in the comments here about Uni, but rest assured, there's a ton of people getting value out of it, both from the learning and the job prospects. Also the idea of the debt is blown way out of proportion, the increase in your potential earning far outweighs how much you'll actually repay. And this is coming from someone who loses a decent amount to student debt.
*I LITERALLY HAD THIS CONVERSATION YESTERDAY* I used to earn £20 an hour as an "odd job man"* in 2002, just painting fences, cleaning gutters, weeding gardens. NO AI is going to come and paint your fence or plumb your new sink in. * it was a surprisingly rewarding job, I met lots of people from all walks of life, different job every day, never got boring.
My son quitted school at 16, moved to service and maintenance apprenticeship. Pretty good pay package + benefits for his age. After two years, he finished his course at 19 and decided to leave. The company offered him further into degree apprenticeship, he declined. He found a new job within a week with better pay. Although he is knackered everyday coming home, he is very happy & upbeat with his life.
They won't do these jobs themselves.... the plumber stereotype is bit outdated all the fines stress unpaid invoices etcetera with companies like pimlico and access on top of it....
I work in the construction industry, and not one of the team members has a degree. My electrician earns £50 a hour. Double on a Saturday and treble that on a bank holiday. My boss the MD, went to university he said it was a complete waste of time. Now his set to retire at 42. Roofers, plumbers and electricians are paid very well, labourer are roughly £20 per hour. Most of team buy properties at auctions do them up and sell them on. You are better of doing that as the property markets is so buoyant at the moment. Whether you Alan Sugar no degree to Pimilco plumbers no degree it's not always necessary to go to uni especially the so called Russell group universities.
I generally agree with you, but it was actually my dad, a decorator, who told me to stay in school. He's absolutely clapped out, didn't want me to do the same and told me to get an easy job.
Charming engaging young students. All. Where'ja find 'em. Fresh and open. No edge, snide side nor 'message', guarded response nor fear of a stranger mic. Maybe it was you. Good one.
Actually, Oxford is full of people like them, and it's not the only place. Most Russell Groups are similar in most ways. I'd say these kids are completely representative (as someone who graduated from Oxford in 2022)
Writing on my experience of a Russel-Group university, some of them still mates of mine, they are not rich or toffs or looking down at all. I even went to school with a couple, the people in this comment's section live in some sort of bubble where universities only allow rich kids (Leave aside the fact many Indians studied there in the past.) in but they do not and in fact increasingly do allow poorer kids in. That being noted, they are studious and bloody intelligent guys and gals (I hardly agree with any of their opinions mind.).
@@ohnoitisnthow is AI going to do plumbing or electrical work or construction? A lot of things, I get, but handwork is unlikely to be massively affected by AI.
It wont, but where will everyone whos put out of a job by it go? The only remaining way to earn money before the robots take over is the (currently massively understaffed) on-the-tools jobs@@atthelord
I remember having a good chat with my house mates in 2000, my final year. We'd just been through the transitional period of university funding of the late 90s, we still got tuition paid for but it was just before it all became 100% student loans. What we realized was: GCSEs and A levels got easier (more A grades, year on year), more colleges or other institutions becoming universities, more people getting into those, less people going straight from school to the job centre, grants got removed, loans increased putting the financial burden on the individual, not the state. And a lot of that was paid back into the government via cigs and booze. And maybe some of those people might learn something and get a good job. Everyone else is stuck with life long debt.
GCSEs and A Levels definitely didn't get easier. And don't forget that Gove made them even harder recently. My final year of A Levels, in 2017-2018, was harder than any year of my degree, and I graduated with a hard-earned first from a top uni. Students got better grades in GCSE and A levels than before because school got a lot more intense, and everyone got a lot more stressed. Don't forget that schools started to be ranked according to exam results and put into special measures if not enough kids were getting good grades. The government demanded that grades improve, and when they did they turned around and blamed schools for 'grade inflation'. Actually, kids just study more than they used to and have far less free time or extra-curricular study in school than before. Everything revolves around the exams.
Funny you believe A Levels and GCSE's are getting easier. You could think about maybe teaching resources are betting with platforms like TH-cam available 24/7. I'm actually learning Calculus with Teeside as part of my HNC which is mostly backed up with TH-cam. However I'm open to learn from you. How do you know subjects have become easier?
@@user-ed7et3pb4oThere are indications that with the funding from the tuitions, universities are lowering grade requirements. The way grades are determined is based on a cohort anyway.
I believe that University was a good investment. I recently studied to be a Chartered Accountant through University of South Africa. My salary improved significantly after finishing university along with significantly improved job security. Now 2 months salary amounts to all my 4 years university fees combined. So it really had a good return on investment.
Playing devil’s advocate, I know so many people who have reached a ceiling or are stagnating in their various sectors (which require a degree for promotion) and are now doing OU, in their mid 30s, with 3 kids, a mortgage etc. Sounds horrendous. I’m glad I did Uni young.
I’m a HNC qualified electrical engineer. I was offered the chance to do a degree in Quantity Surveying degree part time and employer would pay. Both very scarce industries. Not media studies or law which are saturated.
The kind of students that get into Oxford(most of them, not the prep school oxbridge factory types) should go to university. It’s the hundred of thousands of people with business studies/management/psychology degrees from post 1992 universities that should have learned a trade to actually benefit the economy and society as a whole.
Why should they put the economy's interest over their own? And why do those jobs when you can do an office job where you sometimes work from home & probably earn more than plumbers? I think today there's minimal incentive to go for those traditional vocational roles
As someone that is gunning for a career in psychology (if all things go well of course, it's not really something you can predict) the field specifically requires you to do Psychology at university, where you can only get a career doing either in psych with either a masters or PhD. I can completely understand your criticism of psychology in university what with how many students are in the field, how many find the degree was a waste of time due to the lack of careers they can enter with only a Bachelors, but I'd criticise the systems first. That make university mandatory for the field or the lack of information before university for some of those students unaware of psychology specific job prospects after a Bach and cannot afford to do a masters/PhD Please let me know if U agree or disagree lol
People mention the debt aspect a lot but it is worth mentioning you only start paying your debt off in the UK if you make over a certain amount. It depends on your student loan you have but if you have a Plan 1 you only need to start repaying when you make over £22k a year. If you’re on Plan 1 and have an income of £33,000 a year, you'd only repay £82 a month which is not that bad at all.
The debt aspect is way overblown. You never notice it. It can never bankrupt you. It gets written off after a certain amount of time. It is meaningless.
@@melanieah5501 You obviously do not understand credit ratings 😂. They aren’t refusing to give you a credit card because you have Uni debt, they are refusing to give you a credit card because as a student your income levels are laughable 😂
My school told me I wouldn't be successful or get a good job without a degree... After 4 years, 60k in debt and a diagnosis of depression, I have a music degree! I am now a bricklayer...
Looks as though you hit the JACKPOT NOW ! If you’re a good fast bricklayer you should be able to pay that off in 2 years, however if you’re slow and work for someone else on a day rate of around £200 per day , It’s going to take a lot longer , as when you take off no holiday pay average about 6 weeks per year including all the bank holidays, That’s £6,000 gone . Wet / Frosty weather probably at least 3 to 4 weeks ( when adding up all the days unable to work ) Say another £3,500 average, that’s £9,500 gone from the annual amount, then times you get between contracts another 2 weeks per year and that’s a total of £11,500 gone from your earnings, So around £40,500 if your very lucky, less of course Tax , National insurance, Accountancy costs , travel costs etc , And of course if your ill , off work you won’t get a penny. And of course you can’t work from home like most Layabouts now .
Sadly, we're not all academically minded, I'm a practical person, hands on. More suited to a trade skill set, which I do, as a full time job. Many trades and artisan crafts are becoming lost because there are very few apprenticeships being offered or even taken. Not everyone can be a doctor, politician, financial director etc.
You should consider why highly skilled men are leaving the building trades in droves. Do you think that would be happening if we were all rolling in money and life was easy? Most folk don’t understand the difference between turnover and profit, gross and net so see only charges and think that’s the end of it. The trades are hard graft, long and unsociable hours, working only at customer whims, dangerous in many ways including tools, poisonous dust including asbestos, risk of falling from heights, biological hazards from human waste and soil, high UV exposure, and so on. The running costs including accounting, insurance, vehicle, training, certification and much more are simply unsustainable. Van and tool thefts are at epidemic levels and are increasingly perpetrated by organised and violent gangs. All office bods have pensions, paid holidays, illness or injury cover, death in service and the like. Guys in the trade mostly don’t have any of that. If anyone is looking at the building trades as a decent way to make a living then I advise to keep looking.
You are absolutely right Sir, I speak as an ex fully qualified plumber. People think it is a licence to easy riches and or treat tradesmen as the useful but prosaic person defined socially by their employment, but also the physical toll is considerable. I left the building trade in my late twenties for a less tortuous life. I pursued interests with the OU whilst employed under less stress and achieved a MA in Classics, I add this not to boast but to make the point that I met many others such as me who actually study for the love of it. However, I know this is neither a cheap or even a commonly feasible option and my new employment did not depend on it.
I concur. I worked in landscaping for ten years and then had a complete physical breakdown, couldn’t keep up, was fired and lived off my savings until I could regroup and create a different path (which doesn’t happen overnight)
There is an enormous difference between non-Russell group universities and top universities such as the collages at Oxford, Cambridge, London. Elite universities have milk rounds, where prospective employers compete for new hires.
they do, but less than you expect. I graduated with a first from Oxford two years ago and it took a whole year of applications before I got a proper job.
I got rejected from Cambridge a few days ago and it hurt a lot. It’s very hard for me to get over the fact that I will not being going to the best university for my subject since I love it so much and I’m terrified of not getting as much out of it. I know it shouldn’t, but it frankly saddens me to know that people going to Oxbridge can be so nonchalant about their subjects and their futures. I plan to be exceptional in life and not going to Oxbridge won’t stop that, but I wish there was not such an emphasis on them as the people that go there are obviously smart (in some ways), but not necessarily special. A degree is more likely to be worth it if you are getting one for more reason that simple prestige.
don't know what subject you are doing, I am from camb and I can almost ensure camb degree is useless for finding a decent job. getting a good life and job all depends on the individual himself. the degree is basically useless 90% of the time
I was rejected from Oxford for History and English over 12 years ago and it still hurts a little when I think about it so you have my sympathies. I’d sometimes think similarly as I’m trying to get into jobs in investment management in finance and it’s very much screened by what university you went to for many roles at the biggest firms. Hope it works out for you!
Hey, I got a first from Oxford and it took a year of applying to things after graduating to find a job. People expect it to come easily and it doesn't, which can be demoralising and embarrassing in itself. I definitely spent a lot of time wondering what was wrong with me before I realised that many of my friends were going through similar struggles after graduation. So don't be too hard on yourself, it's tough for all of us. Also, if you're really interested in your subject and in academia more generally, you could do a master's at Oxbridge and get the same 'brand' on your CV in the end as anyone else. I know a lot of people who didn't get in first time who went on to be top of their year during their masters. Not getting in is not at all a reflection of how good you are. It's just bad luck. Unfortunately it's just so competitive that they could triple their cohorts without diluting the quality of their student body, it really is just a matter of luck. I'm sorry you're feeling disappointed, it's really hard to come to terms with, but don't be scared. As you pointed out, ultimately we're all in the same boat.
Sorry to hear that. I hope you can find a worthwhile course at another university, even if it means making some changes to your preferred field of study or to the approach taken to studying it. I graduated from Cambridge with a general engineering degree in 1980. My degree was probably an important factor in getting my first job, but far less important for all subsequent ones. I now work in the field of nuclear engineering, which is one example of where Cambridge isn't really the best UK university you could choose, but it would not be a totally rubbish choice either. Many of the best graduate recruits to nuclear engineering join after completing a more specialised masters degree course. My experience is that such courses really help folk get off to a flying start in their first career jobs. Many courses also include course work or projects hosted by industrial partners. Those can be very useful as three month long "job interviews".
Oxford rubber stamp will help you find a good job on very big ladder.Any student with a 2.1 will also stand a chance also depends on location varying other factors.Also going to university also opens up another degree later on in some subjects if change career.Looks better on a CV than nothing perhaps as shows commitment in area of interest for employers hard to get oppotunitys in sector closed to public so has its advantages.Most billionaires are degree educated.
I've gone down the academic route, got a bachelors, masters and several publications under my belt. It's all a con. Employers don't give a damn anymore. If anything, they're more likely to be impressed if you didn't follow the herd and riddle yourself in debt, as that demonstrates good decision making. For the vast majority, learning a trade is the way to go.
Oxford rubber stamp doesn't get you anywhere these days except in very, very specific career paths which are all corrupt nepotistic places anyway. As soon as Oxford starts being less posh than they're used to expecting, they'll shift the goalposts to find some other marker of suitability to use instead, so they can continue to weed out the working class folks. Don't forget that most billionaires also grew up rich.
You are one of the people who get the pint of university. Congratulations. Here is the secret, and wait for it… “If you are going to invest in your future… make sure you know what you are doing & don’t moan if you think to a guaranteed a job straight out of Uni”
Same here pal. I went to uni at 24 and don't regret it. Had very specific goals and knew exactly what I wanted to pursue. 3 years into my chosen field (cyber security) and had a promotion in those years.
@@gordanjenson5148 "don’t moan if you think to a guaranteed a job straight out of Uni" no...if the parents and teachers told us that it's a guaranteed, then it is. if not, those people need to be in prison. you can't lie and think you'll get away with it. that's not right
Amen. I got a lot more out of it at 25 than I would have done at 18. Plus you get more respect from the teaching staff because you want to be there, not because mummy and daddy packed you off there.
@@Dave_of_MordorThere is an assumption, no-one tells you that you are guaranteed for a job but certainly the chance of a better-paying job in a sector people want to work in as opposed to menial jobs is true. People in this country do not understand that education is the greatest at levelling the playing-field and of course boosting the economy.
I was one of the best students in 2012 in Germany when I finished High School and was ready to go to university... I will say that it was some of the most disappointing years in my life (academically speaking). I always had this idea in my head that going to university would brighten my horizon, challenge me on an intellectual level, make me question myself and the world around me and that I would come out as a better person who is able to devote themselves to a specific topic and excel in it for the benefit of society and myself. The harsh reality I found though was that modern university is nothing but an extension of school... you have set schedules with a bunch of different classes, you have "professors" who stand in front of you and talk at you all day just like in school... Your head is stuffed with an abundance of useless information that you will forget as soon as you pass your very unintuitive exams and you feel ike you are learning absolutely nothing useful. What I personally found most disappointing were two things: 1. The relationship with teaching and learning itself: Fundamentally, universities used to be a place where people would come to dedicate their time to studying a specific topic in detail, learning everything and from everyone there is to know and become an expert to then either go on and teach others or start contributing their own research and findings to their field in a meaningful way. Modern university doesn't have any of that. Free and critical thinking are not encouraged... what you are encouraged to do is devour a bunch of useless books and scripts, swallow down as much information to get a good grade on your exam and then forget it all. 2. The professor-student relationship: I was hoping to encounter intellectuals who emanate wisdom and expertise and challenge me and want to mentor me... but in reality, those professors should just be called teachers or information providers because that is mostly all they are there for. Yes, I had one professor who was actually really interested in his students and challenging them at every corner, but he was the absolute exception and wasn't well-regarded by most of his colleagues. Now obviously I am aware that this was my own personal experience (even though I have studied at 4 different universities and found the same everywhere), and I am sure it often depends on what area you study, the people you are with, your professors etc. Anyway, if I could go back in time, I think I would go and do an apprenticeship and learn a useful skill that I can apply in the real world and sort out real problems and with my intellect hopefully make some decent money in the process. I was very underwhelmed by what modern university had to offer.
Schools are job getters, in general. Posted a job in Canada with a steep learning curve - loads of interest, yet hired a less experienced young woman fresh from LSE. Good decision.
I've always thought we ask the wrong questions about if uni is still worth it. For me it's simple...We should be asking: "what do you want to do for a job/career?" And if that career needs a degree, then yes University is worth it
@happyjonn9242 Well in certain circumstances that happens. But that's unrealistic for the most part. You'd have to ask an employer to spend £30000 for 3 years on an 18 y/o (not including maintenance costs). It's a lot of money and the kid might not even pass their degree. The employer might not even want to hire that student at the end of it for other reasons like time-keeping, unprofessionalism etc, but they've already spent the money on them. It's just not feasible
@@happyjonn9242There would be conditions on the other side for this sort of patronage. Like passing the degree, the 18 year old has no credit so banks would not invest in them, hence why the government does, so why exactly would businesses do so?
It used to be that an Oxbridge degree was a passport to a well paid job. Not so much today. Globalisation and advances in tech have decimated graduate salaries. Many large corporations are not bothering with milk round unless it is written into the job description of executives to do so or clients of the corporations push to have their son or daughter taken on as an intern or new recruit. I’d advise undergraduates to pick their careers carefully, preferably ones that will not be eroded by tech. In particular, this is true for those on the downside of advantage who don’t have the luxury of contacts to help them.
I left school against the advice of the headmaster who suggested I stayed on and did my GCSE's and go into banking, I started work on my 15th birthday. I had no qualifications, I am now retired after 50 years working on a very good pension. My job allowed me to travel the world, meeting many of the rich and famous often sharing a meal with them, I gained 38 qualifications plus numerous certificates along the way. I have a couple of cars and a boat, I own properties. Guess what I did ? I was a plumber/gas heating engineer. 😊
Was thinking of applying to Oxford university this year, but a friend or two told me that the people there are quite snobbish, so I'm opting more Cambridge?
There are snobs in both places and nice people in both places, go for whichever place you prefer and what fits your vibe best. Oxford is a bit more lively and fast-paced, Cambridge is much more quiet and peaceful. I often describe it as Oxford being quite ADHD (very chaotic vibes tbh, people are funny and artistic and interesting but often unreliable while Cambridge is quite autistic (a bit more 'ivory tower', good place for people with deep and niche research interests, much less chaotic). Oxford is a brilliant place to go if you're interested in current affairs, political and social sciences, international relations, history, etc. It's also great for biochemistry and for people who want to do a specific science (you can't do that at Cambridge). Cambridge is great for STEM types, with the caveat that you can't do straight Physics or Bio or Chem as an undergrad. Basically, take a look around the cities and see which you prefer, then also have a look at the actual subject you want to study and research into which place would be better. As someone who did History and Politics at Oxford and graduated recently, I honestly loved it there. I loved my degree, found the academic side of things very satisfying, the teaching was amazing (mostly) and I did feel very well looked after by my college and professors. For extra context, I'm non-white, Muslim, ADHD, and not from a stereotypically 'posh' background, and while I did feel out of place at times a lot of that was due to my own anxiety, because people were always lovely to me. Oxford is also a VERY international place (Cambridge too), so even if there are a handful of posh London kids being cliquey and awkward (genuinely, the rudest ones are just the ones who never learned how to socially interact with people), they are massively outnumbered by everyone else including the international kids - who might be rich, but tend to be very open and generous and fun to be around. So basically, never let that put you off. Just because a space is posh doesn't mean you don't deserve to be in it. If you want it, go for it.
@@user-ed7et3pb4o You'll find snobs everywhere. I lectured part-time at Oxford and certainly found no more of it there than anywhere else - perhaps even less.
Good video with a good range of perpectives. I am studying marine engineering at a non Russell’s group university and for sure I will be employed once I have my degree. I started at uni at 26, instead of 18 Which I believe it was a better decision as I was not in the best frame of mind when I was younger.
i applaud you waiting until 26. living adult life before uni is essential because it doesn’t become a shock to go back to work after you finish your degree unlike students who started at 18 and never left the education system
@musicbyanou thank you for your comment. 🙏🙏🙏🙏 it should be normalised to do degrees from mid twenties. Your brain is fully developed by then and also you're still young and you won't want to have the uni experience of getting absolutely wasted etc...
11:05 this guy is pretty spot on. Being able to network with the right people, especially on the work floor. Combine that with good work ethics and making the right decisions at the rights time will get you far.
I am ask sick to the back teeth of hearing that apprenticeship is just as good as going to university. When did an apprenticeship in what was supposed to be in civil engineering, (well it was mostly an apprenticeship in working the photocopier) learnt nothing a tall useful, earnt less than minium wage, and left after about three years with severe depression. I learnt more about engineering in the first three weeks at university than I did in the dump of an office I was stuck working in.
correct, I did two apprenticeships and they weren't the best. Just get funding off the gov to basically have a few more bodies do some of the lesser tasks to free up the big earners to do the more serious stuff.
@@Felix-qm6fo Yea for sure, Apprentice degrees are good idea, however, most of them now seem just as competitive as the normal degree, and are mostly the same as typically doing the normal degree, instead of really providing the alternative to a levels or a degree that the idea of the apprenticeship is supposed to be. I agree they can be very good but with a degree you will always know where you get and were you will stand after three or four years, rather as an apprenticeship will typically not have nearly as much oversight that universities will be under and its a very big gamble if it dosen't work out your really buggered.
I went to university in Hull to do computers, there where only 2 courses to choose from at the time and schools started to push pupils into computing and the wages plummeted, now I am an electrician, much better money and your not stuck in an office.
University IS worth it for 3 reasons...1 in general graduates earn far more than non graduates, 2 there are some occupations which require a degree and 3 learning something new or in more depth is a good thing
They do from Russell group universities in STEM and as long as you pick up internships and relevant experience. I went to University Of York and Masters from US, worked in high finance, making over $500k
It depends on the degree. When I went to Uni I took Engineering, got a good well paid job straight away. I know people that took arts or social degrees did not get good jobs (well paid jobs). I do agree that the grade also counts for a lot.
I'm a pleb who did a PhD at a non-elite school but I got to go to a conference in Oxford and I stayed in Somerville college. It was an amazing place, I can understand why people pursue education there. Also, I think a big reason why a lot of kids go to university these days is because it allows them to avoid the reality of a job for a few more years and no one wants to go into the trades because it's actual hard work.
2:58 that is one issue that doesn't get discussed enough. Almost all MPs know nothing about how things work, how can you have a minister for the environment or science who hasn't thought about science since they were 16.
I can summarise university for all of you: If you are lazy and uninterested in you topic - Don’t go to university. Reassess your life, no one like lazy people. It is possible to change your habits and stop being so lazy all the time. If you are willing to put in the hard work at university and do a lot of relevant extracurricular activities and fully utilise your universities facilities - Go to university.
the apprenticeships just pay so dog shit money and there's no guarentee you'll learn the skills to do the job or get the pay you signed up for. Would absolutely do it though if I can do it as a weekend job alongside with my fulltime job. I'd happily do it then. My main job pays me too much for me to walk away from and have very little income for a few years. Building wealth is a marathon, not a sprint. But to earn nothing for a few years is worse than a sprint.
I think people overestimate the burden of student loan debt. Loans that are provided to pay for university & living costs - the amount of debt sounds high. However, you pay such an insignificant amount back. You aren't even expected to pay all of it back at all. For most students right now - the debt will be automatically wiped out after 30 years. It's a system where most will pay some amount back in, because currently the Govt doesn't want it to look free - but it's essentially still free education. I'm reaching my late 30's now and about half way through my first degree. I'm studying to enter an industry that you could realistically achieve through self study at home - however I am just terrible at it. I even hate academics. It got to a point where it felt like university was the only option that would enable me to get a job I want and can enjoy.
This said it can start to become a burden when you earn a lot of money. I have a friend who has two kids and is paying almost £1000 back a month. He obviously earns a lot but its still £1000 a month he cannot use to pay bills etc
@@KevinHorrox yeah my first paychecks I was paying £1 off a month. Now it's double digits but it's really not much. Never gonna pay off my loans though, that boat sailed when the debt hit six figures...
i used to work for a billionaire's son, the only thing that a degree meant to him was the commitment that is shown by staying in education on a single subject
It’s also worth noting that you can study and do a degree just because you like the subject and because you value the learning rather than just for a job. I did my BA years ago and that was because there were no viable options at the time, there was no working apprenticeship scheme, very few jobs in my area etc etc but I did my MBA because I wanted to be better at my job and that really helped. Do I earn a ton? No. Do I earn more than the average? Yes. Do I regret it and wish I’d have accepted building site misogyny and become an electrician instead because I fucking love doing electrical installations both in homes and cars in my spare time? Yes. I’d be way better off than I am now 😂
As a woman who worked in the trades (landscaping) for ten years, they don’t talk about the misogyny and harassment we face working in a male-dominated field.
The value of a degree depends what you studied, your networking skills, and how good you are at selling yourself at the end of the course. Having a degree even if its a masters degree at 2:1 or above doenst make you special if you dont have any relevant industry expirience to back it up.
It really depends on what you do at university. Someone who is trained in engineering or natural sciences or math or informatics is very different from someone trained in french literature of the 18th century. The latter will probably not be as well paid as the aforementioned and may even have difficulties to find a job where his skills can be used.
University is not just about training. That's a weird notion that seems to be coming up a lot these days. University should be about an actual desire to learn in depth about a subject that you're passionate about.
We were taught that we need d to go to college to get a job, it’s literally what high school guidance counselors have been saying (and corporations) for decades.
While I don't think teaching at Oxbridge is necessarily better than Russell group unis, it is hard to ignore that Oxbridge gets so much more external funding and therefore has a bigger research base. This means more cutting edge knowledge and access to great facilities. It was one of the reasons I moved from a Russell group uni where I did my undergraduate, to Oxford to do my PhD. However, this is of course a situation mostly relevant to the sciences. After leaving Oxford, I moved abroad. I felt that the name of the university has actually helped me because a brand recognised worldwide. Maybe within the UK we recognise that you might get an equally great education elsewhere, but abroad the Oxbridge name does open more doors.
This is true, but as you said, it's mostly applicable to sciences - and even then, research money will make very little difference to undergraduates. (Although some very academic STEM students will have more opportunities to start working on projects here from 2nd year up, which is an advantage over other institutions who can't offer as many places.) I'm an undergrad at Oxford, humanities / social sciences, and can confirm what you suspect about the teaching! It is absolutely the same as other universities. Small group tutorials (2 students and a tutor) are definitely useful, and I know that this isn't offered everywhere, but the tutor you get could be a hit or a miss for your learning style! Lectures are often unrelated to your essay work too, or totally out of sync with your modules, so it isn't uncommon for students to end up with 2 contact hours a week in some terms. Usually you write an essay *before* having any sort of teaching about that topic (not even a single class/lecture/tutorial). This "backwards" style doesn't work well for everyone, as it effectively means that you're self-studying from scratch to an advanced level with no opportunities for clarification or correction until your week's work has already been submitted. At least the libraries are very well-resourced? All of that primarily applies to the essay subjects - most STEM subjects have a lot more contact hours at undergrad. Hope you don't mind me expanding on what you said!
@@huwzebediahthomas9193 I wouldn't necessarily say Russell group are better. My experiences taught me there were pros and cons at both Oxbridge and the Russell group uni I attended for my undergrad (Leeds). Of course there's also a lot of variation between the Russell group unis, and variation on the quality of teaching of different subjects. Beyond that, I know of some universities that are not Russell group because of some excellent research, like Dundee, Keele, UEA.
@@Conniestitution it's a great contribution. It's good to hear a completely different perspective. I thought the tutorials that Oxford offered sounded great on paper, but like you said you can end up with an awful professor, or maybe the college you were accepted in doesn't have a lot of experience or academics working in that subject. It's not unexpected that the experience will vary student to student, course to course, but 2 hours contact time per week is ridiculous! How much does it cost now? 9k or 12k per year?
@@Conniestitution I sort of disagree, I did hispol and I think I got a lot more out of my degree in terms of teaching and individual academic/professional/pastoral attention than my friends at Russell Groups. You're right that there's a lot of self-teaching and the system is kind of backwards (I enjoyed that though, it's my preferred learning style). You're also right that technically we didn't get many contact hours. However, the tutorials were genuinely excellent in my experience and none of my friends at other unis had anything similar. There was also the advantage that you got to develop personal friendly relationships with some of the biggest scholars in the field. My tutors all put in tons of extra time and attention if I asked for it, they would hold extra hour long revision sessions, they would reply to all my most anxious emails with genuine compassion, and they worked hard to make sure the tutorials were thorough and stimulating. They helped me through some really rough times when I was getting diagnosed with ADHD and adapting to medication. Often, my postgrad friends would get jealous of how much one-on-one time we'd get with the big professors as undergrads (postgraduate arts/social science students definitely get less for their money, on the whole). At postgrad, they didn't really get the same tutorials that we did. Also, I don't know if I would have even managed to graduate at another university. My undiagnosed ADHD got really dire during the pandemic. It was my college who paid for a private diagnosis, paid for medication, and paid for therapy during the whole of final year. They made sure I ate properly, and gave me extra money when I was struggling to afford food. When I was struggling with organising doctors' appointments and keeping on top of paperwork, they literally helped me through it and made appointments with the GP for me. I really can't overstate how lucky I was and how much I owe to my college for getting me through it all. I would have really struggled anywhere else - even other Oxford colleges might not have been able to do so much as mine did.
People who don’t want to be politicians are exactly the kind of politicians we need!
Depends... As if they're still not interested but only in it for a good pay cheque thats not helpful. I understand the point though!
@hawky2k215 Thats the same thing no?
Yes I don't want to be a politician and I'm just the kind of person we need as a politician. 😀
it'll all change the minute they step into that entourage. because if you won't go along with what the masses agree on within that entourage, the individual will eventually get pushed aside... in short, they usually don't last long unless they'll taint some of their morals etc
Reminds me of Jon snow
The girl whos saying she doesnt want to be a politician, cant wait to see her as a politician in the next 5+ years.
But that's the kind of person we probably need as a politician... one who doesn't necessarily want to be one.
@@cupiderstunt the last people who should be politicians are the ones in it for fame and salary, but it seems that's who we end up with, and I think that puts the ideal people (perhaps like this lady) off going into it
And in 30 years for her to be the next Lizz Truss 😂
At first she said, when discussing PPE's reputation, she definitely did not want to go into politics then on the next segment she becomes more honest and said she 'probably' won't go into it. She wants a political career. You don't study PPE at Oxford without wanting a political career. Doesn't mean she'll manage it but the civil service or the Beeb will suffice
@@HitchcockTheSnailpersonal exp; iknow many ppe & hsps grads that have NOT gone into politics, it’s in-fact been the minority outcome.
Props to the dude who likes maths, someone has to :)
He likes maths because he's smart enough to understand it's beauty
x + y is the ultimate answer, not 42, but why???
Biology is applied chemistry, chemistry is applied physics, physics is applied maths. Maths 4 life 🤘
I love maths, then again I am a plumber, so why wouldn’t I?
@@pjl8119 So Einstein was dead inside?
The girl talking about needing more plumbers is absolutely right... but we also need more doctors! It's insane that junior doctors are still having to fight for wages that are even vaguely approaching a fair level!
£60k is fair
@@mrr7486we don’t get 60k - far from that actually
@@chimelanwamba8510 It may be true but then the average of doctors with doing locum makes significantly more than other professions!
@@chimelanwamba8510 good luck arguing with people who have zero idea what they're talking about, I hope you get the pay you deserve, which is far more than 60k anyway
14 pound an hour isn't it?
This is because the UK has the same problem as the US: viewing university as a training school for corporate jobs. It is not. It never was. University is where intellectually-inclined people go to study, to become scholars. It is not meant to train them in business or politics or even engineering. It is meant to teach them how to survey the scholarship of others and create their own scholarship in their chosen field. Of course this can be useful to corporations, but so can the work of people with a practical education. We are ruining the finances of students because they are paying universities to guarantee them better salaries in the workforce, and that's not what universities are set up to do. Stop insisting everyone needs a university education! Stop admitting people because of who their parents are! Stop perpetuating the lie that the university-educated are better at everything. They are only better at scholarship (and only that if they did well at uni).
Not really. You need architects, lawyers, dentists, electrical engineers, chemical engineers, petroleum engineers etc. Many people who take academic an degree then do a vocational masters degree like MBA or Masters in Finance, Masters in Real estate investment etc.
@@davidc4408 no kass is STILL right. at the end it's expertise as scholarship that uni trains you for. taking history classes in uni and they teach you to do further research in niche later on, hope that helps
I agree mostly with what you said. However, for engineering, I would argue that you need a university degree (except maybe software engineering)...
Here is why most engineering fields would require you to know some sciences which would require to know some maths and by that I mean you would usually need to know linear algebra, real (and possibly complex) analysis, numerical analysis (optimisation), probability and statistics, and so on. Already one course like "real analysis" would cover multiple concepts like calculus, vector calculus, ordinary and partial differential equations, series (e.g. Taylor, Fourier, etc), etc.
You would then need to learn the sciences for your specific field, basically how to apply the maths you learned and the various laws of that field.
Engineering is not the same as being a technician (like a plumber or electrician); they solve different set of problems.
That's the myopic view of an academic. Many people go to university or other forms of higher education to develop skills and knowledge in a particular field. Their time as a student affords them the opportunity to do so for 3-4 years, with said knowledge and skill acquisition being their primary focus (one would hope) during that time. If they've chosen their field of study wisely, they are then able to apply that knowledge and skills vocationally once qualified. This is how the majority of people view higher education. Being a good scholar as you put it, is only an incidental means to an end. Unless your end is a career in academia
There are people who cannot afford to go to university. It doesn't mean they are less smart, it means they are less privileged.
I'm doing a master's degree at the moment, and to be honest, I'm pretty miffed that after two years of studying (part-time) and 11 grand, I'm still having to create a portfolio of work in my free time, using software that I've paid for myself, to show off the practical skills to employers.
Education today is just indoctrination and financial scam. It's sad but that's the reality.
Graphic Design is it? Tell me about it..!
@@paulklee5790It really sounds like architecture
Its kind of the nature of the beast. It was moronic of Blair to suggest 20 years ago that everyone goes to Uni. Thats a nice sentiment but in reality it just makes a degree worthless and sadles people with debt searching for other ways to stand out.
We either have a society where only a fewer ‘deserving’ number go to Uni and get a benefit or one where everyone can go so who gives a shit on your degree.
Problem is people expect both.
I'm a plumber 🫡
Here’s the thing about manual (skilled) work. Yes you can earn a ton of money and be able to get relatively well paid work anywhere/time, and no, the AI’s not going to take your job, but it’s really hard on the body. I was an electrician for 25 years and I’ve got neck, shoulder, back, hip and knee problems and so have all older tradesman. I literally know 5 guys in their fifties who have to walk downstairs backwards coz their knees are shot
Absolutely! The financial strategy needs to be different so there’s something before the physical is too much and an exit strategy of moving into management or career change later.
Plus decent occupational therapy and H&S to minimise physical strain.
Unfortunately there’s not career and financial coaching tailored to the trades.
This is why I'm sceptical of the people who say: "we need more plumbers"... ok, I get it, but who's going to volunteer? They say it, but then why don't they pursue such jobs? The simple answer is: because they're physically straining jobs. I mean, it's easy to talk about the money, but few people ever talk about the comfort and let's be honest, most of us seek comfort. I don't know if it's good or bad, but it is what it is. In theory, we all want more plumbers, but in practice, few of us want to actually do the job. I work in an office, sitting at a computer. I might earn less than a plumber, but then again I'm not getting dirty or breaking my back working... so, I'd say it's a fair deal, as far as I'm concerned. If AI takes my job... it is what it is. I'll just do something else. It's a risk I'm willing to take.
True. Im a stone mason and have been in the trades since i left college. Im only 30 but my back and knees are pretty bad. And trying to sleep or long car journeys are painful. Im trying to work out how to make money doing something else cos i cant imagine what i will be like in another 20 years.
As someone who has worked in an office and now works in a trade I'd have to respectfully disagree, my health was shocking when I was office based I was stressed I ate badly and had a really shitty back from sitting at a desk all day and was tired all the time. I'm a multi trader now and I'm physically active, I actually enjoy my work (most of the time) and I'm doing something that people value (most of the time) it does take its toll on your body of course, but you just have to adapt as you get older I'm 54 and also have ankylosing spondylitis but I'm much healthier than when I worked in an office mentally and physically, but maybe I'm just lucky.
@@bamberlamb6512 i have never worked in a office i have allways had hands on jobs. But i will agree on the general the health thing, everything but my back and knees is in tip top condition 😂. Also stone works pretty rewarding mentaly to make something pretty that will be there for the next 50 or more years.
I'd love to hear what students at Cambridge and a Russel Group university would say. You found some really thoughtful students, but it would be great to hear from some of those who went a few years ago too.
Former Cantab here. I have a decent job as a software engineer, but lots of these jobs are hard to find outside London. I'm also making half as much as a colleague who did an apprenticeship and now has 10 years' industry experience in his mid 20s.
At the same time, I know people from uni who work for finance companies in London, who make four times what I earn despite being much the same age as me.
Intellectual curiosity doesn't end on graduation day.
KCL/UCL/Cambridge
@dotsgrey That's probably because you had Cambridge on resume, but the same wouldn't apply with other RG unis. A first from Newcastle/Liverpool/Cardiff does not mean it takes more effort than a 1st in Bath/Lancaster/Loughborough (it's a different story with Oxbridge, Imperial, Warwick). I've compared the workload and course material (I've had friends find RG and non RG unis I mentioned, we all shared resources and exam past papers) others in RG for my subject (Maths) and found there not being a difference at all in terms of difficulty, depth and workload. These unis also requested identical grades in their entry requirement.
@@threethrushes KCL fell off
@@alphamikeomega5728 to get the very highest paying software engineering jobs early on you do need to have gone to oxford/cambridge/~imperial
and most if not all FAANG-tier companies certainly prioritise on but not require oxbridge/imperial in early career
In America, they discovered that the people who benefited the most from going to Ivy League universities are the people who were poorer to start with, and the main benefit wasn't the education, but the contacts they make. Which suggests the whole thing is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oxford and Cambridge take a significant number of well-connected, rich people, so the chances of a good number of them going on to do something notable are extremely high. But that would have been the case regardless of whether they'd gone there.
I discovered the same thing in politics... in Eastern Europe. A lot of people assume that you have to be rich and have connections before entering politics, but I noticed that I, a random guy, got to meet MPs, local councillors, and even 2 Prime Ministers and a President, just attending regular party meetings and participating in campaigning. And my parents aren't exactly trillionaires. I even got to run for office once and again, it's not like I'm anyone special. Now, I'm not sure if this is good that even someone like me had a chance (0 connections) OR bad bad that someone like me had a chance (I'm not a genius, so should I have had a chance?)... but it is what it is.
@@octavianpopescu4776 Discovered the same thing here in South America, nepotism and contacts are more important than anything else everywhere where Capitalism is the established economic model, a system that rewards corruption.
The old sayings are often true. It's not what you know, it's who you know. Or in some cases blow.
I think classism here is so strong the benefit of sending a working class kid to a posh school would be diluted. As George Carlin put it, "It's a big club and YOU'RE not in it."
@@dxrobins Even if you have the wrong regional accent for their liking you can pretty much write off your chances to begin with with.
Interesting he mentioned the arms industry, because my cousin got straight As and A-level and instead of going to university, went to BAE Systems. Over the next 6 or 7 years, they paid for her entire education up to masters level.
Some of the few degree apprenticeships are in defence, I agree, and the folks that come out are some of the best at their job at their age imo.
And no debt of course. Grads come out and take a year to learn, and they lack practical skills and experience (at least, I did)
From, a rando on the internet
I eventually did a degree apprenticeship as well. but in the automotive sector.
genuinely a good option. but its very difficult.
Imagine your education was funded by the weapons industries, one of the most corrupt industries in the world today and is to blame for a lot of conflict happening in the world, not exactly something to be proud of is it?
But she missed out on the experience?
all that,just for her to end up sweeping up and peeling potatoes in Macdonald's for four quid an hour!she may as well have gone to mums and tots and drank coffee with the other mums!
11:23 "It's more just about talking in the right way and using the right social codes"
Spot on. Every office job is this. Every single one.
This is why extroverts do better in corporate life, than introverts. They just 'get it'.
I agree, he explained the consulting business brilliantly!
Sounds like snobbery in general
@@jakenicol4012
It's culture. As the OP stated, 'every office job has this'.
I would go as far to say that 'every workplace, anywhere'.
@@RhetoricalMuse What The English call culture the wider world, in fact the wider UK, calls snobbery.
The Oxford Unión has its own TH-cam channel.
They post debates and talks from guests, well worth a look.
Children of wealthy families do the Oxford courses with limited vocational prospects (Classics, Art History etc) that "working-class" people would never pay for, and then with their rubber stamp and connections go to work for a high-paying consultancy firm.
I doubt this a lot as such firm presumably want competent people unless you are writing everyone up there is sycophantically incompetent. Classics for example is pretty awesome. Also, who cares? The working-classes have a better chance than ever before to reach high-society.
Even when poor people do those elite degrees they will find work. One of the main reasons for this is that the history degrees those that participate in will cover real history, philosophy and study the true aspects of human society. Their coverage of philosophical logic will trounce most other degrees main modules. You may find a topic like Latin to be boring or not applicable to the real world but it will allow anybody who reads it to have an understanding of the bedrock of western law and civilisation. It is much more than social connections.
Classics and art history are vocational degrees, who do you think is running all the museums and art galleries?
@@ffotograffydd The market is very small (even in the UK) and connections will help.
@@Art-is-craft The point is that less wealthy people are less likely to apply for those courses, which makes it easier for others to get in and get that Oxford place. To be fair, Oxford is actively trying to broaden its intake.
University is absolutely worth it if you study something that equips you with in demand skills. Or, you have FU money and you can indulge in a passion degree because you're not depending on it for employment opportunities. Unfortunately, people have bought into the myth that simply having a degree = satisfying, well paying job. A degree isn't just what you do after 'A' levels. It's an investment, so invest wisely.
Kids are sold places like Oxford as somewhere that will set them up for life. For many, it does, or provides a pathway to high earning. But equally, for many it doesn't. Kids are fed an idealised view of these institutions from teachers and the universities' own prospectus material (material that should be declared as little more than advertising, but isn't.) Kids are then expected to make an "informed choice" about what and where to study?
Kids make the best choice they think is right for them under the circumstances, but in my opinion it's a crapshoot. Telling kids to 'invest widely' is a pretty myopic comment.
It’s such a shame that the arts are once again the preserve of the rich. It was nice to hear what intelligent people from working class backgrounds had to say, esp since they were the ones affected by societal decision. Oh well
It is worth it if you make it worth it, going to university doesnt miraculously mean youll have an awesome job, all the money in the world etc. University is probably 5% of the knowledge youll get in actual work that you need. Almost everything comes after you start working.
apprenticeship still allows you to head back to school if you want. Its not like it prevents you from doing it. counts towards ucas points as well depending what level you got.
@@h3nry_t122 Quite. One of my school mates ended up with a Master's in Electrical & Electronic Engineering after an apprenticeship as an instrument technician through the BTEC route. Went to college at 16, avoided 'A' levels, Bachelor's and Master's paid for by his employer. He's done extremely well for himself nd he followed the apprentice route.
Something not really touched on here is also that once you've got the degree, a lot of the more exclusive career paths expect you to do an unpaid internship which essentially filters out anyone who isn't already able to live comfortably on existing wealth and support.
In what fields? I haven't heard of that, and nobody I know had to do this
@@DannyHodge95Do go on, I have heard the claim before but it colours me odd.
@@DannyHodge95I think it may still happen at law practices, where interns are “employed” for maybe two years during which time they complete their Articles. This on the job training period is unpaid but is a prerequisite to applying for a paid position as a junior lawyer in a chambers.
Not really as much any more The majority of major finance institutions offer paid internships etc. paid internships are extremely common and are more so used to be able to see if someone could work in the industry without the full time contract
That practice is very common in the US, recently they had to require congressional interns to be paid, since only wealthy, well connected young people were getting those opportunities.
I went to university at the age of 26. I didn't finish my degree. It was worth it.
I have had a very different upbringing to every person I met in university. What I learnt from my course, the important stuff, had nothing to do with the course itself. I learnt how to autonomously learn. Nothing in my entire life has been more valuable than the ability to learn effectively. I was in my second year by the time I realized, I no longer got anything from the course or the material. So I left. I think university can only supply what you as an individual demands from it. For me, it was independence. It was all I needed. I'd recommend it, but only as an experience that can be achieved elsewhere.
Props to the guy in the denim jacket and the girl studying PPE. They are 100% in tune with the working classes.
They study History they said.
University is worth it, if you have an interest in a subject area it allows you an environment to study that topic, learn from experts in their field and study with others that have that shared interest. Students also meet and collaborate with people on a wide range of programmes and diverse interests. If the programme is taught well, no matter the subject, students should leave university not only as experts in their field but as strong communicators, problem solvers, people who are capable of applying logical critique to the information that they are dealing with etc etc. All of these are extremely valuable skills that can be taken into a variety of different work place settings. Universities also tend to be hubs of diversity in cultural and (depending on the institution) socioeconomic backgrounds, more people need experience of this to breed tolerance in our society, particularly the upper classes. The one area where it falls down is the belief that a degree should automatically equal an expert job in a specific discipline. It won't for everyone, students shouldn't pigeon hole themselves like that, but instead be confident that whatever career they end up choosing after university they will have a really valuable skill set and experience to draw on. A friend of mine went all the way through the education system, completed a PhD and worked at a university, before quitting to pursue her hobby (baking) as a career and now runs a successful cafe and bakery chain locally. She still draws on all of the skills that she built through those experiences, even though she is no longer doing science in a lab.
Right, baking is chemistry!
Most of them are studying so they can leave this crap is-lame country asap, no Indian is forcing me to die in Ukraine thats for sure.
Cooking is chemistry, you just eat the result.
Well said!
They brainwash kids into wokeness and are for the most part useless
In my view you should do what you're good at and/or like doing. Not everyone is cut out to be a plumber, not everyone is cut out to do a job requiring strong intellectual skills. There's more to life than money.
I was asked by my 8yr old nephew if I was rich, I answered what kind of rich does he mean, health rich, cash rich or rich in life, he looked confused, I told him a little secret, cash rich is the most boring, there are plently of billionaires who have no life at all and that's not what life is meant to be about
Such an ignorant comment.@@sygad1
this, basically. A lot of the talk about 'waste of time degrees' misses the point. I went back to uni for a term as part of teacher training and it was a joy to be able to spend a day or an afternoon in a library, reading, if I wanted to.
literally this
Time is literally more valuable than money. It’s finite.
As a factory worker it is very comforting knowing there are a new generation of kids studying how to keep me safe in my job.
The guy with the wooly hat and denim jacket knows the score, nice to know that Oxford isn't 100% full of spoilt rich kids and those who actually have a brain and a conscience
Nah. He’s too young to know what he’s taking about
@@Icanbacktrailers A young student in University is too young to comment on the topic of "university is worth it"? What are you going on about?
Everything that young man said was spot on ya' ageist plum.
@@Icanbacktrailers he is more articulate and more on the ball than 90% of my family who are over the age of 50
Tbh he seemed pretty posh as well
@@TiffanyTwisted92 he’s still at university. He hasn’t begun his career yet. He has no personal experience to know if it’s worth it. He hasn’t witnessed his peers careers yet. His parents are from a different generation who began their careers in a different job market and are now in the late stages of their careers. People aged between 25 and 40 would know a lot more about the usefulness of university that this guy
Nice to see that the trend of attendees at Oxford has been changing and it's no longer some big rich boys clubs with serious neoptism, all of these people seem pretty grounded and reflective in reality not some little acdemia bubble world and there was a serious low arsehole vibe with all of them.
People like you describe don't out themselves talking to reporters at Oxford. The intake is still around 40% kids from private schools last I checked.
Yeah, as the other comment said, this is a very biased sample of a handful of people. Don't read into it as being representative of Oxford students.
Maaaaaate, dont be naive.
All the posh old twats are there, they dont talk to Joe on the street.
An old friend of mine went to Oxford. The stories he told me of the elitism was insane, they are bastards.
Yes but the privately educated make up around 35%-40% of those who achieve 3As at A Level and 17% of those who attend sixth forms. So Oxford here is mostly just reflecting inequalities in the education system before adulthood rather than discriminating ontop of that. The selection process is very meritocractic. @@fhmcateer
@@Pilgrim1st I'm very familiar with the selection process and I agree with the argument concerning underlying educational inequalities being expressed at university level. Although these institutions could quite easily alter their required grades for students from disadvantaged backgrounds or non-private schools as well...
As a society we have been taken in by the false narrative that a degree should lead to a well paid job and is worthless if it doesn't. This is nonsense. Mass university education benefits everyone by creating a well informed population who are better able to discern good quality information and therefore make better decisions (this does not necessarily work for each individual but the population as a whole).
We only question the value of degrees because we have to pay for thousands for them and usually incur heavy debt. When degrees were free students did not have to burden themselves about whether their degree was worthwhile, and that's as it should be.
I have just graduated in my 40s having already had a trade based career so I have seen both sides of this.
Very well said! The only people who benefit from a less well educated populace are populist leaders who don't want a critical electorate that can think for themselves.
As you say there's so much more to university than just getting a degree and getting a job. The connections, societies , opportunities to be exposed to ideas, chances to do things that you don't really get after graduating are well worth it.
Even if we ignore those intangible benefits and take into account the expansion of university graduates, there's still a massive earnings benefit when comparing graduates with non-graduates so it's pretty much guaranteed to be worth it. So the argument that it's a waste of money just doesn't hold water.
You are right, but unfortunately university is expensive. If all it offered was being well informed but not necessarily lead to higher earnings then no one would go.
In theory you should be correct but my experience with university educated people has been the opposite, generally speaking.
Degrees were never 'free'. Do the lecturers or cleaning staff work for free? Who builds, maintains and heats the buildings? Nothing of value produced by others is free. Someone somewhere has to perform productive work to either directly provide the service or pay taxes to indirectly provide it if subsidised by government
@@buzz1ebee All the data backs this up. I would be wary of the populist point, everyone is allowed to vote today, if you want an intellectual barrier (I would support this.) then ummm be wary.
As a plumber, you only make a lot of money if you have your own firm.
I feel so sad that people put so much worth into the job you get after university and not the experience of actually learning
University as a learning experience is the preserve of the wealthy, normal people need a job at the end of it to pay the rent and buy food.
Well at the end of the day people have to earn a living, don't they? I mean I feel you, in an ideal world the actual learning experience should and would be much more worth than the kind of job you get after, if the latter didn't directly or indirectly influence your lifestyle and livelihood in general.
@@fur10us1 that's what postgraduate courses and graduate schemes are for
Can definitely thank recent Tory and (to an extent) New Labour governments for that
@@fur10us1 Yeah, learning doesn't power the world, deployment of what's been learned does.
Degree apprenticeships are great, but they're also really hard if the uni is running the course properly. You get min 20% of your time off the job (or 80% on) and a three year degree streched over four years means that you're working 75% on your degree. So a workload of 155% makes for a tough 4 years.
The one at my workplace is somehow squeezing it to 3 years. Basically, they will work a third term at uni over summer, instead of the usual two terms, aligned with the full time students.
Even more tough, but an even better career move, because you're into the workplace at higher pay by 21 years old, for some.
@@pandanation6202 yeah good on them. If they can manage the workload then it definitely has it's perks. Going for jobs with 3 years industry experience and a degree at 21 is a great start.
@@ATH-camAccountName
The reason for all of this the lack of disconnect between the real world and academia. I would say on most degrees that only 20% of the modules/classes are relevant to the degrees title. It is not uncommon to find degrees in economics and finance full of useless modules on sociology, psychology and media. Which when questioned will get a response like it brings a rich and diverse academic experience.
Hey man u should really change your opinion man u learn more from doing the job than studying about the job
Whatever Degree you have, having one from Golden triangle Universties will open doors. My undergrad from a former poly and postgrad show very different levels of respect.
Such degrees from less prestigious colleges tend to require lots of work experience so as to be considered. Which then begs the question why bother with the degree of experience is the qualifier?
Fair play , a patagonia hoodie and good at maths , heading straight for a hedge fund /quant or tech company.
It's only the fourth-year maths student who really seemed to belong in university, and he got in on a scholarship. He was also by far the most likable of the interviewees.
i liked the boy who talked with the police siren in the background and the last girl too
I didn't attend university ( just A levels ) but have interviewed university students for part time positions within a retail environment. Those who just saw it as beneath them we didn't recruit but a select few saw it as an opportunity to apply skills they would learn which could be transferred into their chosen field. Some even stayed with the company and became senior leaders.
Interesting that those who took the benefits of being paid whilst learning transferable skills even in a part time role became successful in their chosen field .They would need the qualities you list also but maybe not the approach ( dead end job ) to secure the opportunity in the first place.@@pjl8119
Bleak as fcvk life
University is still a valuable option if you have a good reason for going. Most students go because the schooling system is geared for it and doesn't really provide any other options. The issue is however that when everyone has a degree it's not really that important anymore. I'm currently doing an MSc because my job requires it - but I wish my school had taught me that I could have gone straight into work witho just A levels and had the employer send me for an undergrad and masters through a DA. I feel if more young people chose a course (not necessarily a university course) based around what they will find valuable doing in a career they'd opt more for apprenticeships etc. Most of the people I went to university with either ended up insomething they hate, working in retail/bars, or gave up and became a teacher. If schools opened the door for more people to go into a career field they enjoy I think the current university business model would reduce and become more valuable again.
I learnt a trade and went to uni. I'm now an electrician with a bachelors and to top it off HGV drivers license. I will never be out of work.
what trade ?
@@ironman8257electrician maybe 🤔
@@zam1007 lol, braindead moment
which did you do first? degree or trade?
@@zam1007 lol, thats some awareness from me
I absolutely loved uni. I worked in my field for a decade (healthcare), but left because shift work made me ill. I now work in admin and have better work life balance. Uni is a business, and you are paying for an experience. There are no guarantees.
"You are paying for an experience", 100% correct. It's basically an expensive amusement park for kids who want to delay adulthood, where the focus is to keep the "customer" entertained and sell a dream. The usefulness of what you learn or how employable you will be are irrelevant and often times omitted on purpose to sell you the course.
You rich people are paying for the experience. Those who comes from a struggling family like me are paying for the paper that let whoever wants to hire me, know that I learn this thing they want to hire me for, for 4 years. Yeah there are no guaranteed but you can increase your chance by doing internships make connection (this means making friends with the right people, not just exchanging numbers and business cards), pick up as much professional work as you can for your portfolio, and doing research with your professors in those 4 years.
@@clipkut4979 I guess you're one of those rich kids
@@Dave_of_Mordor You missed the point completely. People do join with the hope of having a job at the end of it, but the opportunities after uni are grossly exaggerated and the ROI is often negative. By the time you finish your 4 years and cover yourself in debt, the chances that what you learned is not obsolete and that the employers you want to simp for will not outsource/automate or pay slave wages for that position are pretty low. This not counting the fact that they might just ignore you altogether for lack of experience, or your education might not suffice to meet the requirements of the job market. Except for a few professions, unis are debt traps and a glorified lottery ticket. Degrees are a dime a dozen nowadays, if everyone has one, that's nothing special in the eyes of the employers and the bar gets raised, and the rat race continues.
@@clipkut4979 i didn't miss anything. you're just so engrossed into your belief about college that you're unwilling to take another perspective. also nothing you wrote has anything to do with what i wrote.
I don't know what I would have done without my degree, did it later in life (late 20's) went from living in one of the worst towns in the whole country to a situation where I'm now an educator teaching the subject I love to 16-18 year olds. The only shame is it's FE Public sector work and we've not had a pay increase for 12 years or more and we've seen the sector depleted of staff and resources.
Dude in the hat is right, for most jobs a degree tells an employer that you can show up when required to and do the work. For many corporations what the particular degree is in isn't that important.
The most skilled should win jobs not the most educated.
@@acidrain55 I think it depends on the role. If the skillset required is fixed you would be correct, but what if the role will grow to encompass other areas where neither candidate has any relevant experience? Then it may not be so clear cut. For example, you are creating automation software and candidate A has done this, and only this, for 6 years since leaving college. Candidate B is straight out of university but did their thesis on automation and has a clear understanding of the concepts behind the things you want to automate in the near future. You are balancing what B loses in productivity now vs the chances A may not be able to do all you need at the required level going forward. These are the kind of decisions managers have to make all the time.
I'm pretty sure sylvester stallone was quoted saying basically the same thing. I can't say I've had good experiences with uni students who have an attitude of looking down on people
@@csbdcsbd8728 I can't say I've had a good experience with university students who have an attitude of looking down on people either, but I can say that I've had a good experience with university students who don't have that attitude.
@sebfox2194 a lot of very pompous bubble living self important people who have never got their hands dirty in their life
Im a self employed plumber and its not all roses! 😂 it depends on where you live because in a poorer area customers cant afford to pay big money.
i dunno 20 an hour beats 18 an hour after 10 years of crap jobs and 5 years of uni, most people go to uni because theyre sheep. you only need a degree once you know you need one to progress further in your chosen profession. 99% of these kids have no idea what job theyre wanting to d, so uni is obviously a waste to most of these people lol.
Yeah that lady is a snob. She’s angry plumbers earn a lot.
@@krob2327 no she’s not
@@calistayasmin3833 she’s a snob who seems aggrieved those she deems beneath her are earning what good office jobs earn. I’m interested how you can argue otherwise. Why should it only be lawyers and drs who earn top money. We do need drs as much as we need plumbers. So why the agitation at the latter group earning so much?
Uni has become a business, and the schools feed into it.
It was always a business, where do you think they got the money. The fact is that England has slimmed the gap for the classes.
My school's metric for success was the percentage of students gaining university admission. They also "invited" you to apply for Oxbridge - that is to say you could only get a reference if they deemed you were made of the right stuff. The career counsellor at the school did nothing but ask us what course we would be interested applying for. I was so pressured into going to uni I ended up choosing the wrong course for me. I hope it's different these days. A lot of the most successful and happy people I know never went to university. I wish I knew what I know now!
There's a lot of negativity in the comments here about Uni, but rest assured, there's a ton of people getting value out of it, both from the learning and the job prospects. Also the idea of the debt is blown way out of proportion, the increase in your potential earning far outweighs how much you'll actually repay. And this is coming from someone who loses a decent amount to student debt.
It's barely a debt. More like a tax. Definitely blown out of proportion
*I LITERALLY HAD THIS CONVERSATION YESTERDAY* I used to earn £20 an hour as an "odd job man"* in 2002, just painting fences, cleaning gutters, weeding gardens.
NO AI is going to come and paint your fence or plumb your new sink in.
* it was a surprisingly rewarding job, I met lots of people from all walks of life, different job every day, never got boring.
AI isn't going to take anyone's job, it is literally going to be another tool to improve your workflow.
Give it 5-10 years and the Tesla Optimus or Figure humanoid robot will becoming for your job
@@ThatAnnoyingStepdad people are literally already losing their jobs and being replaced by AI churning out slop.
@@EtruscoUnico It doesn’t. That was a typo. In any case, painting a fence doesn’t involve a great deal of typing
Eventually they will, but you can be a odd job man and learn a field of study. In fact, being in touch with so many ppl lends itself to the humanities
My son quitted school at 16, moved to service and maintenance apprenticeship. Pretty good pay package + benefits for his age. After two years, he finished his course at 19 and decided to leave. The company offered him further into degree apprenticeship, he declined. He found a new job within a week with better pay. Although he is knackered everyday coming home, he is very happy & upbeat with his life.
They won't do these jobs themselves.... the plumber stereotype is bit outdated all the fines stress unpaid invoices etcetera with companies like pimlico and access on top of it....
Yeah she’s a snob
I work in the construction industry, and not one of the team members has a degree.
My electrician earns £50 a hour. Double on a Saturday and treble that on a bank holiday. My boss the MD, went to university he said it was a complete waste of time. Now his set to retire at 42. Roofers, plumbers and electricians are paid very well, labourer are roughly £20 per hour. Most of team buy properties at auctions do them up and sell them on. You are better of doing that as the property markets is so buoyant at the moment. Whether you Alan Sugar no degree to Pimilco plumbers no degree it's not always necessary to go to uni especially the so called Russell group universities.
I generally agree with you, but it was actually my dad, a decorator, who told me to stay in school. He's absolutely clapped out, didn't want me to do the same and told me to get an easy job.
@@chetmanley1885decorating is donkey work and one of the lower paid trades.
@@chetmanley1885 Literally the entirety of Portugal.
Charming engaging young students. All. Where'ja find 'em.
Fresh and open. No edge, snide side nor 'message', guarded response nor fear of a stranger mic. Maybe it was you. Good one.
Actually, Oxford is full of people like them, and it's not the only place. Most Russell Groups are similar in most ways. I'd say these kids are completely representative (as someone who graduated from Oxford in 2022)
@@user-ed7et3pb4o Phew. Previously thought we were doomed. Thanks.
@@elihouse1994 I hear you. That's why this lot's civility was so remarkable.
Writing on my experience of a Russel-Group university, some of them still mates of mine, they are not rich or toffs or looking down at all. I even went to school with a couple, the people in this comment's section live in some sort of bubble where universities only allow rich kids (Leave aside the fact many Indians studied there in the past.) in but they do not and in fact increasingly do allow poorer kids in. That being noted, they are studious and bloody intelligent guys and gals (I hardly agree with any of their opinions mind.).
If everyone did vocational skills the average amount of money they make would drastically drop.
We have until AI takes over before this happens, the tradies can enjoy the money while its there
@@ohnoitisnthow is AI going to do plumbing or electrical work or construction? A lot of things, I get, but handwork is unlikely to be massively affected by AI.
@@ohnoitisntsome tiles came off my roof in the recent storm, I asked ChatGPT to fix it but it just told me to call a roofer.
Well yes, supply/demand right.
It wont, but where will everyone whos put out of a job by it go? The only remaining way to earn money before the robots take over is the (currently massively understaffed) on-the-tools jobs@@atthelord
I remember having a good chat with my house mates in 2000, my final year. We'd just been through the transitional period of university funding of the late 90s, we still got tuition paid for but it was just before it all became 100% student loans.
What we realized was: GCSEs and A levels got easier (more A grades, year on year), more colleges or other institutions becoming universities, more people getting into those, less people going straight from school to the job centre, grants got removed, loans increased putting the financial burden on the individual, not the state. And a lot of that was paid back into the government via cigs and booze.
And maybe some of those people might learn something and get a good job. Everyone else is stuck with life long debt.
GCSEs and A Levels definitely didn't get easier. And don't forget that Gove made them even harder recently. My final year of A Levels, in 2017-2018, was harder than any year of my degree, and I graduated with a hard-earned first from a top uni. Students got better grades in GCSE and A levels than before because school got a lot more intense, and everyone got a lot more stressed. Don't forget that schools started to be ranked according to exam results and put into special measures if not enough kids were getting good grades. The government demanded that grades improve, and when they did they turned around and blamed schools for 'grade inflation'. Actually, kids just study more than they used to and have far less free time or extra-curricular study in school than before. Everything revolves around the exams.
Funny you believe A Levels and GCSE's are getting easier. You could think about maybe teaching resources are betting with platforms like TH-cam available 24/7. I'm actually learning Calculus with Teeside as part of my HNC which is mostly backed up with TH-cam.
However I'm open to learn from you. How do you know subjects have become easier?
@@user-ed7et3pb4oThere are indications that with the funding from the tuitions, universities are lowering grade requirements. The way grades are determined is based on a cohort anyway.
Tuition-fees have been rather positive actually. There are plenty of government supports.
I believe that University was a good investment.
I recently studied to be a Chartered Accountant through University of South Africa.
My salary improved significantly after finishing university along with significantly improved job security.
Now 2 months salary amounts to all my 4 years university fees combined.
So it really had a good return on investment.
Playing devil’s advocate, I know so many people who have reached a ceiling or are stagnating in their various sectors (which require a degree for promotion) and are now doing OU, in their mid 30s, with 3 kids, a mortgage etc.
Sounds horrendous. I’m glad I did Uni young.
OU changes lives. It's a hassle to do, yeah. Well worth it if you're in a rut though.
I’m a HNC qualified electrical engineer. I was offered the chance to do a degree in Quantity Surveying degree part time and employer would pay. Both very scarce industries. Not media studies or law which are saturated.
Another electrical engineering graduate. Same here, I did a masters in Electrical & Electronics Engineering. Not enough of us.
@@ryan-tabar I transferred to the dark side and became a QS in the end. The money was too good
The kind of students that get into Oxford(most of them, not the prep school oxbridge factory types) should go to university. It’s the hundred of thousands of people with business studies/management/psychology degrees from post 1992 universities that should have learned a trade to actually benefit the economy and society as a whole.
Why should they put the economy's interest over their own? And why do those jobs when you can do an office job where you sometimes work from home & probably earn more than plumbers?
I think today there's minimal incentive to go for those traditional vocational roles
@@michael43567 They are unlikely to have that job for longer. There is self-interest here too.
As someone that is gunning for a career in psychology (if all things go well of course, it's not really something you can predict) the field specifically requires you to do Psychology at university, where you can only get a career doing either in psych with either a masters or PhD.
I can completely understand your criticism of psychology in university what with how many students are in the field, how many find the degree was a waste of time due to the lack of careers they can enter with only a Bachelors, but I'd criticise the systems first. That make university mandatory for the field or the lack of information before university for some of those students unaware of psychology specific job prospects after a Bach and cannot afford to do a masters/PhD
Please let me know if U agree or disagree lol
It would be fantastic to do a catch up with each of these individuals in say 5 or 10 years to see where they end up
People mention the debt aspect a lot but it is worth mentioning you only start paying your debt off in the UK if you make over a certain amount. It depends on your student loan you have but if you have a Plan 1 you only need to start repaying when you make over £22k a year. If you’re on Plan 1 and have an income of £33,000 a year, you'd only repay £82 a month which is not that bad at all.
The debt aspect is way overblown. You never notice it. It can never bankrupt you. It gets written off after a certain amount of time. It is meaningless.
I think you're right. a loan of £9000 will be worth much less due to inflation chipping away at the pound.
Say it louder for the people at the back ❤
But it effects ur credit rating, an undergrad I know cannot even get a credit card.
@@melanieah5501 You obviously do not understand credit ratings 😂. They aren’t refusing to give you a credit card because you have Uni debt, they are refusing to give you a credit card because as a student your income levels are laughable 😂
As an uneducated oik I'm assuming PPE is Philosophy, Politics, & Economics? Help anyone?
Yes!
@@emmabrooker166 Thankyou
Yes. The bland, group-thinking politician sausage factory.
Thanks, I was wondering too.
Ah Philosophy that's the other one! I was like "Errr Personal Protection Equipment? :S"
My school told me I wouldn't be successful or get a good job without a degree... After 4 years, 60k in debt and a diagnosis of depression, I have a music degree! I am now a bricklayer...
Looks as though you hit the JACKPOT NOW ! If you’re a good fast bricklayer you should be able to pay that off in 2 years, however if you’re slow and work for someone else on a day rate of around £200 per day , It’s going to take a lot longer , as when you take off no holiday pay average about 6 weeks per year including all the bank holidays, That’s £6,000 gone . Wet / Frosty weather probably at least 3 to 4 weeks ( when adding up all the days unable to work )
Say another £3,500 average, that’s £9,500 gone from the annual amount, then times you get between contracts another 2 weeks per year and that’s a total of
£11,500 gone from your earnings, So around £40,500 if your very lucky, less of course Tax , National insurance, Accountancy costs , travel costs etc , And of course if your ill , off work you won’t get a penny. And of course you can’t work from home like most Layabouts now .
Sadly, we're not all academically minded, I'm a practical person, hands on.
More suited to a trade skill set, which I do, as a full time job.
Many trades and artisan crafts are becoming lost because there are very few apprenticeships being offered or even taken.
Not everyone can be a doctor, politician, financial director etc.
You should consider why highly skilled men are leaving the building trades in droves. Do you think that would be happening if we were all rolling in money and life was easy? Most folk don’t understand the difference between turnover and profit, gross and net so see only charges and think that’s the end of it. The trades are hard graft, long and unsociable hours, working only at customer whims, dangerous in many ways including tools, poisonous dust including asbestos, risk of falling from heights, biological hazards from human waste and soil, high UV exposure, and so on. The running costs including accounting, insurance, vehicle, training, certification and much more are simply unsustainable. Van and tool thefts are at epidemic levels and are increasingly perpetrated by organised and violent gangs. All office bods have pensions, paid holidays, illness or injury cover, death in service and the like. Guys in the trade mostly don’t have any of that. If anyone is looking at the building trades as a decent way to make a living then I advise to keep looking.
You are absolutely right Sir, I speak as an ex fully qualified plumber. People think it is a licence to easy riches and or treat tradesmen as the useful but prosaic person defined socially by their employment, but also the physical toll is considerable. I left the building trade in my late twenties for a less tortuous life. I pursued interests with the OU whilst employed under less stress and achieved a MA in Classics, I add this not to boast but to make the point that I met many others such as me who actually study for the love of it. However, I know this is neither a cheap or even a commonly feasible option and my new employment did not depend on it.
@@Fatwasp You’re one of the lucky few. I salute you sir. I wish I’d got my act together younger and went in to another line of work 20 years ago.
I concur. I worked in landscaping for ten years and then had a complete physical breakdown, couldn’t keep up, was fired and lived off my savings until I could regroup and create a different path (which doesn’t happen overnight)
There is an enormous difference between non-Russell group universities and top universities such as the collages at Oxford, Cambridge, London. Elite universities have milk rounds, where prospective employers compete for new hires.
they do, but less than you expect. I graduated with a first from Oxford two years ago and it took a whole year of applications before I got a proper job.
Only for certain professions: law, accounting, consulting (McKinsey, Accenture), banking. The majority must tout their CVs around like the rest of us.
I got rejected from Cambridge a few days ago and it hurt a lot. It’s very hard for me to get over the fact that I will not being going to the best university for my subject since I love it so much and I’m terrified of not getting as much out of it. I know it shouldn’t, but it frankly saddens me to know that people going to Oxbridge can be so nonchalant about their subjects and their futures. I plan to be exceptional in life and not going to Oxbridge won’t stop that, but I wish there was not such an emphasis on them as the people that go there are obviously smart (in some ways), but not necessarily special. A degree is more likely to be worth it if you are getting one for more reason that simple prestige.
don't know what subject you are doing, I am from camb and I can almost ensure camb degree is useless for finding a decent job. getting a good life and job all depends on the individual himself. the degree is basically useless 90% of the time
I was rejected from Oxford for History and English over 12 years ago and it still hurts a little when I think about it so you have my sympathies.
I’d sometimes think similarly as I’m trying to get into jobs in investment management in finance and it’s very much screened by what university you went to for many roles at the biggest firms.
Hope it works out for you!
Re-apply for post-grad. I did, and probably appreciated Cambridge more at 29 y.o. than at 18.
Hey, I got a first from Oxford and it took a year of applying to things after graduating to find a job. People expect it to come easily and it doesn't, which can be demoralising and embarrassing in itself. I definitely spent a lot of time wondering what was wrong with me before I realised that many of my friends were going through similar struggles after graduation. So don't be too hard on yourself, it's tough for all of us. Also, if you're really interested in your subject and in academia more generally, you could do a master's at Oxbridge and get the same 'brand' on your CV in the end as anyone else. I know a lot of people who didn't get in first time who went on to be top of their year during their masters. Not getting in is not at all a reflection of how good you are. It's just bad luck. Unfortunately it's just so competitive that they could triple their cohorts without diluting the quality of their student body, it really is just a matter of luck. I'm sorry you're feeling disappointed, it's really hard to come to terms with, but don't be scared. As you pointed out, ultimately we're all in the same boat.
Sorry to hear that. I hope you can find a worthwhile course at another university, even if it means making some changes to your preferred field of study or to the approach taken to studying it.
I graduated from Cambridge with a general engineering degree in 1980. My degree was probably an important factor in getting my first job, but far less important for all subsequent ones.
I now work in the field of nuclear engineering, which is one example of where Cambridge isn't really the best UK university you could choose, but it would not be a totally rubbish choice either.
Many of the best graduate recruits to nuclear engineering join after completing a more specialised masters degree course.
My experience is that such courses really help folk get off to a flying start in their first career jobs.
Many courses also include course work or projects hosted by industrial partners. Those can be very useful as three month long "job interviews".
They all seem like really great people. Really honest, which I wasn’t expecting to be honest
Oxford rubber stamp will help you find a good job on very big ladder.Any student with a 2.1 will also stand a chance also depends on location varying other factors.Also going to university also opens up another degree later on in some subjects if change career.Looks better on a CV than nothing perhaps as shows commitment in area of interest for employers hard to get oppotunitys in sector closed to public so has its advantages.Most billionaires are degree educated.
Unfortunately a piece of paper is apparently more valuable than experience and Real word grafting.
I've gone down the academic route, got a bachelors, masters and several publications under my belt. It's all a con. Employers don't give a damn anymore. If anything, they're more likely to be impressed if you didn't follow the herd and riddle yourself in debt, as that demonstrates good decision making. For the vast majority, learning a trade is the way to go.
Oxford rubber stamp doesn't get you anywhere these days except in very, very specific career paths which are all corrupt nepotistic places anyway. As soon as Oxford starts being less posh than they're used to expecting, they'll shift the goalposts to find some other marker of suitability to use instead, so they can continue to weed out the working class folks.
Don't forget that most billionaires also grew up rich.
Just found out your channel, and loving the content mate!! Lovey to see someone like you doing this. Thank you very much for the work you put out!!
It’s a publication. Not one guy called Joe
Going to university was so so worth it to me - but I went as a mature student with very specific goals.
You are one of the people who get the pint of university. Congratulations. Here is the secret, and wait for it… “If you are going to invest in your future… make sure you know what you are doing & don’t moan if you think to a guaranteed a job straight out of Uni”
Same here pal. I went to uni at 24 and don't regret it. Had very specific goals and knew exactly what I wanted to pursue. 3 years into my chosen field (cyber security) and had a promotion in those years.
@@gordanjenson5148 "don’t moan if you think to a guaranteed a job straight out of Uni"
no...if the parents and teachers told us that it's a guaranteed, then it is. if not, those people need to be in prison. you can't lie and think you'll get away with it. that's not right
Amen. I got a lot more out of it at 25 than I would have done at 18. Plus you get more respect from the teaching staff because you want to be there, not because mummy and daddy packed you off there.
@@Dave_of_MordorThere is an assumption, no-one tells you that you are guaranteed for a job but certainly the chance of a better-paying job in a sector people want to work in as opposed to menial jobs is true. People in this country do not understand that education is the greatest at levelling the playing-field and of course boosting the economy.
Getting a degree has opened doors for me that didn't exist before
I was one of the best students in 2012 in Germany when I finished High School and was ready to go to university... I will say that it was some of the most disappointing years in my life (academically speaking). I always had this idea in my head that going to university would brighten my horizon, challenge me on an intellectual level, make me question myself and the world around me and that I would come out as a better person who is able to devote themselves to a specific topic and excel in it for the benefit of society and myself.
The harsh reality I found though was that modern university is nothing but an extension of school... you have set schedules with a bunch of different classes, you have "professors" who stand in front of you and talk at you all day just like in school... Your head is stuffed with an abundance of useless information that you will forget as soon as you pass your very unintuitive exams and you feel ike you are learning absolutely nothing useful.
What I personally found most disappointing were two things:
1. The relationship with teaching and learning itself: Fundamentally, universities used to be a place where people would come to dedicate their time to studying a specific topic in detail, learning everything and from everyone there is to know and become an expert to then either go on and teach others or start contributing their own research and findings to their field in a meaningful way. Modern university doesn't have any of that. Free and critical thinking are not encouraged... what you are encouraged to do is devour a bunch of useless books and scripts, swallow down as much information to get a good grade on your exam and then forget it all.
2. The professor-student relationship: I was hoping to encounter intellectuals who emanate wisdom and expertise and challenge me and want to mentor me... but in reality, those professors should just be called teachers or information providers because that is mostly all they are there for. Yes, I had one professor who was actually really interested in his students and challenging them at every corner, but he was the absolute exception and wasn't well-regarded by most of his colleagues.
Now obviously I am aware that this was my own personal experience (even though I have studied at 4 different universities and found the same everywhere), and I am sure it often depends on what area you study, the people you are with, your professors etc.
Anyway, if I could go back in time, I think I would go and do an apprenticeship and learn a useful skill that I can apply in the real world and sort out real problems and with my intellect hopefully make some decent money in the process.
I was very underwhelmed by what modern university had to offer.
Schools are job getters, in general. Posted a job in Canada with a steep learning curve - loads of interest, yet hired a less experienced young woman fresh from LSE. Good decision.
I've always thought we ask the wrong questions about if uni is still worth it.
For me it's simple...We should be asking: "what do you want to do for a job/career?" And if that career needs a degree, then yes University is worth it
If that career needs a degree, the employer should be paying you to study it.
@happyjonn9242 Well in certain circumstances that happens. But that's unrealistic for the most part. You'd have to ask an employer to spend £30000 for 3 years on an 18 y/o (not including maintenance costs). It's a lot of money and the kid might not even pass their degree. The employer might not even want to hire that student at the end of it for other reasons like time-keeping, unprofessionalism etc, but they've already spent the money on them. It's just not feasible
@@happyjonn9242There would be conditions on the other side for this sort of patronage. Like passing the degree, the 18 year old has no credit so banks would not invest in them, hence why the government does, so why exactly would businesses do so?
A lot of 18 year olds don’t know what career path they want though!
@@eb_326 only fans 'performer'. don't even need qualifications to do it.
It used to be that an Oxbridge degree was a passport to a well paid job. Not so much today. Globalisation and advances in tech have decimated graduate salaries. Many large corporations are not bothering with milk round unless it is written into the job description of executives to do so or clients of the corporations push to have their son or daughter taken on as an intern or new recruit. I’d advise undergraduates to pick their careers carefully, preferably ones that will not be eroded by tech. In particular, this is true for those on the downside of advantage who don’t have the luxury of contacts to help them.
Left school at 15 , have my own plastering company and earn £100k + a year. Don’t think I’ve done too bad.
Give me a job
Ye but you do manual labour lad
@@rustytoe178 the people I employ do that
@@rustytoe178 Nothing wrong with manual labour. Sitting at a desk is terrible for your health.
Good for you? Any reason why you feel the need to announce that?
Guy in the beanie hat - Love it! love the raw authentic truth he gave us!
Thank you!
Students are just another financial pawn that adds to GDP. Student debt since 2010 has just hidden the loss of GDP since 2008.
I left school against the advice of the headmaster who suggested I stayed on and did my GCSE's and go into banking, I started work on my 15th birthday. I had no qualifications, I am now retired after 50 years working on a very good pension. My job allowed me to travel the world, meeting many of the rich and famous often sharing a meal with them, I gained 38 qualifications plus numerous certificates along the way. I have a couple of cars and a boat, I own properties. Guess what I did ? I was a plumber/gas heating engineer. 😊
If we've more plumbers, electricians, locksmiths and whatnot, the call out and repair charges should come down to earth. Simple. Supply and demand.
Was thinking of applying to Oxford university this year, but a friend or two told me that the people there are quite snobbish, so I'm opting more Cambridge?
There are snobs in both places and nice people in both places, go for whichever place you prefer and what fits your vibe best. Oxford is a bit more lively and fast-paced, Cambridge is much more quiet and peaceful. I often describe it as Oxford being quite ADHD (very chaotic vibes tbh, people are funny and artistic and interesting but often unreliable while Cambridge is quite autistic (a bit more 'ivory tower', good place for people with deep and niche research interests, much less chaotic). Oxford is a brilliant place to go if you're interested in current affairs, political and social sciences, international relations, history, etc. It's also great for biochemistry and for people who want to do a specific science (you can't do that at Cambridge). Cambridge is great for STEM types, with the caveat that you can't do straight Physics or Bio or Chem as an undergrad.
Basically, take a look around the cities and see which you prefer, then also have a look at the actual subject you want to study and research into which place would be better.
As someone who did History and Politics at Oxford and graduated recently, I honestly loved it there. I loved my degree, found the academic side of things very satisfying, the teaching was amazing (mostly) and I did feel very well looked after by my college and professors. For extra context, I'm non-white, Muslim, ADHD, and not from a stereotypically 'posh' background, and while I did feel out of place at times a lot of that was due to my own anxiety, because people were always lovely to me. Oxford is also a VERY international place (Cambridge too), so even if there are a handful of posh London kids being cliquey and awkward (genuinely, the rudest ones are just the ones who never learned how to socially interact with people), they are massively outnumbered by everyone else including the international kids - who might be rich, but tend to be very open and generous and fun to be around.
So basically, never let that put you off. Just because a space is posh doesn't mean you don't deserve to be in it. If you want it, go for it.
@@user-ed7et3pb4o You'll find snobs everywhere. I lectured part-time at Oxford and certainly found no more of it there than anywhere else - perhaps even less.
100% they are not, if you deserve to go there then go there...also I like Cambridge from an aesthetic level.
Good video with a good range of perpectives.
I am studying marine engineering at a non Russell’s group university and for sure I will be employed once I have my degree.
I started at uni at 26, instead of 18
Which I believe it was a better decision as I was not in the best frame of mind when I was younger.
any STEM subject, you can do what you want afterwards. employers want problem solvers.
i applaud you waiting until 26. living adult life before uni is essential because it doesn’t become a shock to go back to work after you finish your degree unlike students who started at 18 and never left the education system
@musicbyanou thank you for your comment. 🙏🙏🙏🙏
it should be normalised to do degrees from mid twenties. Your brain is fully developed by then and also you're still young and you won't want to have the uni experience of getting absolutely wasted etc...
11:05 this guy is pretty spot on. Being able to network with the right people, especially on the work floor. Combine that with good work ethics and making the right decisions at the rights time will get you far.
I am ask sick to the back teeth of hearing that apprenticeship is just as good as going to university. When did an apprenticeship in what was supposed to be in civil engineering, (well it was mostly an apprenticeship in working the photocopier) learnt nothing a tall useful, earnt less than minium wage, and left after about three years with severe depression. I learnt more about engineering in the first three weeks at university than I did in the dump of an office I was stuck working in.
Keep living in your victim deluded depression bubble
correct, I did two apprenticeships and they weren't the best. Just get funding off the gov to basically have a few more bodies do some of the lesser tasks to free up the big earners to do the more serious stuff.
*a good apprenticeship that allows you to study and work
@@Felix-qm6fo Yea for sure, Apprentice degrees are good idea, however, most of them now seem just as competitive as the normal degree, and are mostly the same as typically doing the normal degree, instead of really providing the alternative to a levels or a degree that the idea of the apprenticeship is supposed to be. I agree they can be very good but with a degree you will always know where you get and were you will stand after three or four years, rather as an apprenticeship will typically not have nearly as much oversight that universities will be under and its a very big gamble if it dosen't work out your really buggered.
Unfortunately a lot of apprenticeships are just a scam to underpay people.
I went to university in Hull to do computers, there where only 2 courses to choose from at the time and schools started to push pupils into computing and the wages plummeted, now I am an electrician, much better money and your not stuck in an office.
University IS worth it for 3 reasons...1 in general graduates earn far more than non graduates, 2 there are some occupations which require a degree and 3 learning something new or in more depth is a good thing
They do from Russell group universities in STEM and as long as you pick up internships and relevant experience. I went to University Of York and Masters from US, worked in high finance, making over $500k
Pleased to say that not all of us engineering grads end up selling weapons of mass destruction ❤
What? I thought you all had twirling mustachos and German accents.
Having also done an engineering degree, I know no one who has gone to make or sell weapons of mass destruction either.
It depends on the degree. When I went to Uni I took Engineering, got a good well paid job straight away. I know people that took arts or social degrees did not get good jobs (well paid jobs). I do agree that the grade also counts for a lot.
I'm a pleb who did a PhD at a non-elite school but I got to go to a conference in Oxford and I stayed in Somerville college. It was an amazing place, I can understand why people pursue education there.
Also, I think a big reason why a lot of kids go to university these days is because it allows them to avoid the reality of a job for a few more years and no one wants to go into the trades because it's actual hard work.
2:58 that is one issue that doesn't get discussed enough. Almost all MPs know nothing about how things work, how can you have a minister for the environment or science who hasn't thought about science since they were 16.
I can summarise university for all of you:
If you are lazy and uninterested in you topic - Don’t go to university. Reassess your life, no one like lazy people. It is possible to change your habits and stop being so lazy all the time.
If you are willing to put in the hard work at university and do a lot of relevant extracurricular activities and fully utilise your universities facilities - Go to university.
"Don't go to university" and do what?? I don't think it's wise to make statements like that & not provide a solid alternative
@@michael43567 learn to stop being lazy
@@gordanjenson5148 a 6 year old could come up with that advice mate. You were better off saying nothing
@@michael43567 Then why did you ask if you knew the answer already.
If even students at Oxford don't think uni is worth it, you know you've got a broken system.
I wish I never went to university way back when. Learned more in my high street job and became an engineer because of it.
It's kind of ironic people think plumbing is easy. Why you need a plumber in the first place if that's SO easy?
No one implied it was easy, which is exactly why she says there’s a demand for them
the apprenticeships just pay so dog shit money and there's no guarentee you'll learn the skills to do the job or get the pay you signed up for. Would absolutely do it though if I can do it as a weekend job alongside with my fulltime job. I'd happily do it then. My main job pays me too much for me to walk away from and have very little income for a few years. Building wealth is a marathon, not a sprint. But to earn nothing for a few years is worse than a sprint.
I think people overestimate the burden of student loan debt.
Loans that are provided to pay for university & living costs - the amount of debt sounds high. However, you pay such an insignificant amount back. You aren't even expected to pay all of it back at all. For most students right now - the debt will be automatically wiped out after 30 years. It's a system where most will pay some amount back in, because currently the Govt doesn't want it to look free - but it's essentially still free education.
I'm reaching my late 30's now and about half way through my first degree. I'm studying to enter an industry that you could realistically achieve through self study at home - however I am just terrible at it. I even hate academics. It got to a point where it felt like university was the only option that would enable me to get a job I want and can enjoy.
This said it can start to become a burden when you earn a lot of money. I have a friend who has two kids and is paying almost £1000 back a month. He obviously earns a lot but its still £1000 a month he cannot use to pay bills etc
It's 9% of earnings over £28K, so it's not too bad.
@@OptimusToaster not even 9% of total earnings either. Just 9% of earnings over the threshold.
If you earn 30k, you pay back £18 a month.
not even 9% of total earnings either. Just 9% of earnings over the threshold.
If you earn 30k, you pay back £18 a month.
@@KevinHorrox yeah my first paychecks I was paying £1 off a month. Now it's double digits but it's really not much. Never gonna pay off my loans though, that boat sailed when the debt hit six figures...
i used to work for a billionaire's son, the only thing that a degree meant to him was the commitment that is shown by staying in education on a single subject
It’s also worth noting that you can study and do a degree just because you like the subject and because you value the learning rather than just for a job. I did my BA years ago and that was because there were no viable options at the time, there was no working apprenticeship scheme, very few jobs in my area etc etc but I did my MBA because I wanted to be better at my job and that really helped. Do I earn a ton? No. Do I earn more than the average? Yes. Do I regret it and wish I’d have accepted building site misogyny and become an electrician instead because I fucking love doing electrical installations both in homes and cars in my spare time? Yes. I’d be way better off than I am now 😂
As a woman who worked in the trades (landscaping) for ten years, they don’t talk about the misogyny and harassment we face working in a male-dominated field.
the math guy is doing the game right, he is on scholarship and loves math, he will get somewhere for sure
When the PPE student realises the salary and potential earnings from being a politician, she'll be all over it like a seagull on chips.
We have plenty of plumbers. The wages are so low after expenditures. Try working 1 month as a tradesman and say that.
If I could go back in time and have a word with myself I'd tell myself not to go to university.
Why is that?
The value of a degree depends what you studied, your networking skills, and how good you are at selling yourself at the end of the course. Having a degree even if its a masters degree at 2:1 or above doenst make you special if you dont have any relevant industry expirience to back it up.
I would have studied something different and studied😂
@@AlphaDogLXIIIhave you met people that have been to Public Schools?
I know so many people that would say the same thing. It's a national disgrace that it's becoming just not worth it.
It really depends on what you do at university. Someone who is trained in engineering or natural sciences or math or informatics is very different from someone trained in french literature of the 18th century. The latter will probably not be as well paid as the aforementioned and may even have difficulties to find a job where his skills can be used.
This is a question that each individual can only answer for themselves.
Wow these guys are notably more sensible than the folks I ended up chatting to while they were at Oxford.
University is not just about training. That's a weird notion that seems to be coming up a lot these days. University should be about an actual desire to learn in depth about a subject that you're passionate about.
We were taught that we need d to go to college to get a job, it’s literally what high school guidance counselors have been saying (and corporations) for decades.
A number of years ago, people who had degrees could not get a job decided to get a job driving large buses and made regular money. And enjoyed it.
While I don't think teaching at Oxbridge is necessarily better than Russell group unis, it is hard to ignore that Oxbridge gets so much more external funding and therefore has a bigger research base. This means more cutting edge knowledge and access to great facilities. It was one of the reasons I moved from a Russell group uni where I did my undergraduate, to Oxford to do my PhD. However, this is of course a situation mostly relevant to the sciences.
After leaving Oxford, I moved abroad. I felt that the name of the university has actually helped me because a brand recognised worldwide. Maybe within the UK we recognise that you might get an equally great education elsewhere, but abroad the Oxbridge name does open more doors.
Russel group unis are better, but without the future Oxbridge benefits.
This is true, but as you said, it's mostly applicable to sciences - and even then, research money will make very little difference to undergraduates. (Although some very academic STEM students will have more opportunities to start working on projects here from 2nd year up, which is an advantage over other institutions who can't offer as many places.)
I'm an undergrad at Oxford, humanities / social sciences, and can confirm what you suspect about the teaching! It is absolutely the same as other universities. Small group tutorials (2 students and a tutor) are definitely useful, and I know that this isn't offered everywhere, but the tutor you get could be a hit or a miss for your learning style! Lectures are often unrelated to your essay work too, or totally out of sync with your modules, so it isn't uncommon for students to end up with 2 contact hours a week in some terms. Usually you write an essay *before* having any sort of teaching about that topic (not even a single class/lecture/tutorial). This "backwards" style doesn't work well for everyone, as it effectively means that you're self-studying from scratch to an advanced level with no opportunities for clarification or correction until your week's work has already been submitted. At least the libraries are very well-resourced?
All of that primarily applies to the essay subjects - most STEM subjects have a lot more contact hours at undergrad. Hope you don't mind me expanding on what you said!
@@huwzebediahthomas9193 I wouldn't necessarily say Russell group are better. My experiences taught me there were pros and cons at both Oxbridge and the Russell group uni I attended for my undergrad (Leeds). Of course there's also a lot of variation between the Russell group unis, and variation on the quality of teaching of different subjects. Beyond that, I know of some universities that are not Russell group because of some excellent research, like Dundee, Keele, UEA.
@@Conniestitution it's a great contribution. It's good to hear a completely different perspective. I thought the tutorials that Oxford offered sounded great on paper, but like you said you can end up with an awful professor, or maybe the college you were accepted in doesn't have a lot of experience or academics working in that subject. It's not unexpected that the experience will vary student to student, course to course, but 2 hours contact time per week is ridiculous! How much does it cost now? 9k or 12k per year?
@@Conniestitution I sort of disagree, I did hispol and I think I got a lot more out of my degree in terms of teaching and individual academic/professional/pastoral attention than my friends at Russell Groups. You're right that there's a lot of self-teaching and the system is kind of backwards (I enjoyed that though, it's my preferred learning style). You're also right that technically we didn't get many contact hours. However, the tutorials were genuinely excellent in my experience and none of my friends at other unis had anything similar. There was also the advantage that you got to develop personal friendly relationships with some of the biggest scholars in the field. My tutors all put in tons of extra time and attention if I asked for it, they would hold extra hour long revision sessions, they would reply to all my most anxious emails with genuine compassion, and they worked hard to make sure the tutorials were thorough and stimulating. They helped me through some really rough times when I was getting diagnosed with ADHD and adapting to medication. Often, my postgrad friends would get jealous of how much one-on-one time we'd get with the big professors as undergrads (postgraduate arts/social science students definitely get less for their money, on the whole). At postgrad, they didn't really get the same tutorials that we did.
Also, I don't know if I would have even managed to graduate at another university. My undiagnosed ADHD got really dire during the pandemic. It was my college who paid for a private diagnosis, paid for medication, and paid for therapy during the whole of final year. They made sure I ate properly, and gave me extra money when I was struggling to afford food. When I was struggling with organising doctors' appointments and keeping on top of paperwork, they literally helped me through it and made appointments with the GP for me. I really can't overstate how lucky I was and how much I owe to my college for getting me through it all. I would have really struggled anywhere else - even other Oxford colleges might not have been able to do so much as mine did.