As an aerospace composite designer I would like comment on a few things. Carbon fiber itself is not toxic, the resins used to make the composite might slightly be. Carbon fiber composite dust is not healthy but so are some wood dusts too. When making a wooden bridge the maker takes care to orient the grain just right, the same should be done with the composite one too, one cannot just cut a piece of some laminate and say "this is it". Actually because of the great stiffness of CF the orientation is more critical. The natural damping of CF composite is less than any wood (99.9% of the time) so the frequency response would be more even with high probability. The one instrument where CF has worked really well is the flute.
I ordered one. Found a great way to fit it without poison dust. Stretched a plastic wrap (what you use for food dishes). Then held bridge in place with rubber band at f holes. Finally used JB Weld epoxy (very little bit) on the feet. After curing, carefully trim edges of feet neat. Perfect fit!
Carbon fibre is directional. The pressure points are not in the same direction where the weave of carbon fibre is taking the most stress, hence showing a weak muffled sound. The thickness of the bridge makes carbon fibre a weak material choice for this application as it will take forever to laminate the cf to the height of the bridge in the correct direction.
I agree with you Edgar. The fiber carbon bridge was very smooth, but muted in the areas where we needed it to scream out harmoniously. It was too, submissive in its' execution. Where as the wooden bridge had character in its sound and range, allowing the violinist to put their own personality into the musical piece. Thanks for testing, for your audience. 😊
The carbon fiber bridge sounded like it was muted opposed to just being warmer. I prefered the wooden bridge, it sounded brighter and much more colorful. Also the wooden bridge sounded like it projected better. I was wondering if repositioning the carbon fiber bridge would change the violins sound to be more consistent with the wooden bridge. Did you try that?
Hi Edgar, I was curious also of the Stradpet carbon fiber bridge and purchased one over six months ago. The biggest downside is not being able to adjust the feet’s, as you noticed, these are already too thin. Haven’t found a violin top that would fit perfectly. Which is all in the wrong direction, we fit the bridge to the top, not the other way around. Having said that, it showed a surprisingly “good enough” sound to leave me wondering what if solutions to shortcomings could be found. A carbon fiber bridge would be indestructible; no need of replacement. Imagine the cost benefits of never having to change the bridge. Potential business downside to luthiers!!! But then there is the string height issue. And for me, tuning the bridge is essential to squeeze out the best of an instrument. It was an entertaining experience. Stradpet products are interesting. In particular the titanium fine tuners and tailguts. The last have become standard in my setups. Thanks for always coming up with interesting videos!
I got one just a few months ago, for fun off amazon I think, just to try out. And, the muted sound, unadjustability - basically didn't like the sound at all. But, at least it was fun to try! I wonder if they could mess with thicknesses a little more - maybe hollow in the center, with feet that can rotate a little to match more archings ... maybe a different version would work better. Even with wood, the harder the bridge, the more focused sound you get - those soft bridges being great for beginner violins as they are quiet and mellow. And, a nice well cut hard bridge is just awesome!
Add some thin wood under the feet to adust. If you have to cut or sand the top of bridge a little just wear a oaper mask. Its no going to poison you. I been working in the industry with carbon for many years.
I'm not sure if it had a softer sound, or if it was producing more even amplitude across a broader frequency response and that made everything being perceived softer. 🤔 That's what actually happens with the carbon fibre guitars I listened to (although they mechanically work in a different way than violins). It would be worth to carry out a proper frequency spectrum analysis, try to EQ match a recording of both bridges, take a look at transients... It's always insightful to nerd out more deeply on new things that still have potential room for evolution.
I make CF instruments. What is going on there is the temperature of the post cure. If it is only room temperature cured it will dampen the sound. The higher temp cure you go in 60°F increments the brighter it will sound. Now about the pads, warm them up a bit with your Bending Iron and then they will conform to the shape of the top better, only need to go to 140°F or so to soften them then they will cool to fit perfect.
I like the wooden bridge! That said, I think the Cf one can be useful in cheaper student entry level instruments, which often get their bridges neglected. I think it may present some unexpected problems with time as it doesn't bend or warp like wood, that tension may end expressing up somewhere else. Lastly I think a good thing to make it adjustable may be to put some real wood on the feets, that way you avoid working with the toxic material and it gives some room to adapt it to the top. If someone gets accustomed to playing with these and suddenly changes the bridge or gets a better instrument, it can be a process to adapt to its response. Like happens when you play on a plywood or poly laquered instrument and switch to a nicer one, suddenly you get much more upper armonics and it may present a challenge for some people.
Thank-you for your video (I love your videos)! I've tried the STRADPET on 4 of my fiddles, and it works well on 3 out of 4. I agree that the feet _must_ fit the instrument top for it to be usable on that instrument. I use Helicore Med tension strings on all of the instruments. I use it on an all carbon fiber fiddle that I use for playing outdoors (it sounds better than the bridge that came w/that fiddle); that fiddle also has a carbon fiber sound post. I use it on my pre-1890 HOPF which is a very FULL-sounding instrument, and the STRADPET tames it without muting its sound. It actually seems to even the tone across the instrument. Same thing on my pre-1890 Pfretzschner which is dark and loud with a wooden bridge but tame and even but not muted with the STRADPET. Just as with a wood bridge, the sound will vary depending on bow selection. The 3 instruments I described above all sound very nice with the Coda Prodigy bow with the STRADPET bridge 😊
The carbon fibre seems to dampen some overtones. I think it might be useful if you want to have a sound that blends well. It very much depends if you want a distinguished violin sound or if you want it as some background music or film music with a supportive role. It would be interesting how well it works in a string ensemble or in an orchestra. The wooden bridge probably also has some resonances that enhance certain frequencies and it probably also depends on the acoustics of the instrument itself how well it sounds as a combination of both.
The wooden bridge had a more complex sound as the carbon fiber has a different resonances than wood. If violin strings were changed to a brighter kind it might compensate much like different bows are better on a specific violin.
I thought I heard a difference between the two as he was playing scales, but couldn't tell the difference between them when he played his musical piece, but then again this is youtube, but the greatest for sound reproduction.
Hello Edgar, Just a correction for you. Carbon fiber dust is inert and no more dangerous than wood dust. You shouldn't inhale either. But to say it is poison would give people the wrong idea about it's danger. That is a myth going around the internet that people have bought in to. I work cutting and sanding carbon fiber everyday. Actually I make the "Gayford Carbon Strad" line of Violins. I found this review of the carbon fiber bridge very interesting as I have been experimenting with carbon bridges myself. I agree it doesn't sound as good as the wood bridge, but it is getting close. Carbon fiber is probably a thousand times stronger than wood so I think the carbon bridge needs to lose a lot more structure to be able to flex like the wood one does. PS I have enjoyed and learned a great deal from your videos. Keep them coming
Very interesting. I agree it sounded less bright. The interesting question is "why?". Carbon fibre acoustic guitars exist and it is said the carbon fibre is very neutral... That it doesn't absorb or deaden any frequencies in the way different species of wood will lessen the volume of different frequencies. If we assume that to be true then the logical explanation for the wooden bridge being bright would be that it is failing to transmit all low/mid frequencies into the body
Honestly, I was very surprised to find that the wooden bridge sounds harsh to me. The carbon one sounds a lot smoother and friendlier. I know it's the wrong answer, but that's what I hear.
I have changed my mind on carbon fiber violin bridges. In the event one would recieve a green or poorly grained violin bridge, I think a carbon fiber bridge might be sturdier than a cheap wood bridge. I may have turned up my nose at carbon fiber bridges in the past; but now believe there is a viable place for these new bridges should one fall victim to poorly made bridge blanks. The other pluss is that the maple supply will be eased by the introduction of the currious new bridges😅
i liked the wooden one better it projected better and it can be fitted to any violin easily enough that anyone could do it as far as the feet go any way . the carbon fiber one was sweet but it would only work if it fit your violin and who is to say it would . how ever i think if you took the time to fit it to a violin it would be a good violin bridge for a kids violin as it would never wear out or change with time and moister . you could always carve the feet to fit with a little work with sand paper or a file or even a dremel but wear a respirator or a face mask .
Stronger mechanical properties, does it really fit on this point to the mechanical properties of the violin structure? Does the bridge have to be the hardest material part on the violin structure, or could it be built to filter or absorb some undesired frequencies resonating in the instrument ??
The carbon fiber bridge sounds to me like it hasn't been pared down enough, which gives it a more muted sound lacking mid harmonics. You said it was 2mm taller. I imagine it's thicker too. If you cut it down and make it thinner, I bet it'll sound better. I would love to see you revisit this bridge after making those adjustments!
Gratitude! You for cameo of carbon fiber bridge. I felt it lacked amplitude! If you cant sand it or plane it because of toxic dust what is the point. In all fairness i think it would make a great spare bridge in case your pet bridge warps or snaps. Thank you for showing it to.me I think I like aged Maple better. Carbon fiber fine for begining student.
I agree it the carbon fibre bridge gave the sound a somewhat muted sound but potentially more even? I prefer the wooden bridge however especially as it is so easily made and adjusted by hand to any instrument.
Hi edgar I saw you did a video on spirit varnish a while ago, and have a recipe online. Do you have any guidance on changing the colour from yellow (e.g. to orange using madder root mix) and the lightfastness of the colours?
by a small, i really mean small margin the carbon is good handling high-pitched sound than wooden one. warm and bright a little bit, but for lower frequency it will suffer more than you think. just my oppinion as an ex-sound-man😊
we do notice that with the higher action tone quality changes and that could elicit the sound post to be slightly adjusted. the dimensions are a bit poorly thought leaving no wiggle room for adjust but the inlays on the front certainly compensate for the mass and density discrepancy. looks cool, details are there and for the price its kind of attractive given it will never warp. maybe varnish the feet wouldnt be so hard on your violin top? im just a player.
It looks like they took some effort to engineer it with the bottom thinning and holes. If it actually has strength, it might allow wood removal to a level that might compromise an all-wood bridge, if that helps with the sound.
Rein vom Ton im Video finde ich den Klang des traditionell hölzernen Stegs schöner. Er scheint ausgeglichen und im richtigen Maß straff, wohingegen der Carbon-Steg tendenziell matschiger und gleichzeitig spitz klingt. Aufgrund der angedeuteten Probleme mit Abschabungen im Lack wäre ich mir auch unsicher, ob der Carbon-Steg meine Geige beschädigen würde, wenn dieser z.B. beim Spielen wegspringt... er ist zudem aufgrund der zu schmalen Füße auch nicht richtig anpassbar....
Well maple which I think is the traditional bridge material vibrates alot and helps transfer. Vibration to the soundpost. Carbon fiber is used in tone arms on some expensive turntables because you want the opposite of transferring vibration. So its very inert. I would think it would dampen the sound.
I play a carbon fiber violin that comes with a carbon fiber bridge but I found it too high so I had it changed out into a wooden one. Immediately the volume of the violin became smaller and less brilliant. I do wish the original bridge had been lower.
I soak my violin bridges in wood hardener for a day, dry them and then shape and install. The job of the bridges is to transfer vibration to the top, then down the sound post to the back plate. CF may be too hard and not flexible enough. I'll test it.
The company's fine tuners and tail gutt are more interesting, but Im hoping you bought their titanium tailpiece. I've wondered about its weight vs my imagination that it would be like putting a tin can at the end of the strings.
They should make an adjustable bridge in carbon fiber where the feet can move like ive seen with maple adjustable bridges. Or make a hybrid with wood feet so you can trim.
The Carbon Fiber Bridge was less prone to producing harsh, screeching tones, but was a bit muted, and resulted in a lower volume. "Carbon nanotubes (CNTs) can look similar in shape and size to asbestos fibers, which has raised concerns about possible health effects. CNTs have a fibrous needle-like shape, a high surface-to-volume ratio, and can persist in lung tissue. Inhaling CNTs could potentially cause conditions similar to asbestosis, so people working with them should take precautions."
The density of a carbon laminate is double that of maple. So the bridge needs to me thinner. Then you end up with the reduced contact area on the surface of the instrument. I think this could be solved with redesign and a bit more complex manufacturing method. A simple sheet of carbon laminate is not going to do the trick.
@@sayithigher Carbon fibre-enforced epoxy foam may be a better variant. However, that isn't easy to source. The only carbon fibre laminate I use is for securing cracks inside the instrument with some 0.2 mm thick pellets glued with wood-compatible super-glue.
I think if a violin was made to maximise the attributes and minimise the inadequacies of a cf bridge, it may be an option. As things are, you are putting a material with an instrument that was designed for another material. Personally, I think the advantages of cf are not for purist musicality, but more for durability and it being impervious to temperature and humidity. For some, the practicality of that might be an advantage. Just a thought. As ever, an interesting video! ;))
With carbon fiber, how would you fit that to the top plate of a specific violin? I would imagine that you could not just hollow the feet with a knife blade. New materials would demand new tooling and new techniques I expect.
In the low and middle register it sounded muted, and with few overtones. In the upper register it sounded harsh with few overtones. How much did it cost?
I think I enjoyed the carbon fibre bridge more. How would I fair if I were to be blindfolded? Also I would like to hear the test over a higher range of frequencies. ( C4 t0 C5, for example)
I would not attempt to tonally compare CF with a wood bridge. They are incompatible materials. Seems CF bridges are designed for CF or solid body instruments where dimensional stability is less of a contributing factor to physical or acoustical dynamics. Possibly properly fitted it may serve as an emergency backup bridge for a traditional violin. Likewise my thoughts may be less valid if the his application is made on a cello or bass. They may respond more positively than the upper string instruments.
Hello Master Edgar. I didn't like it at all. If we pay attention, we notice that with the wooden bridge, the sound lasts longer. With the carbon bridge (in addition to the adjustment difficulties) it seems to me that some notes come out without projection. It's my opinion, of course🤔
For maximum effectiveness, a bridge needs to be hard and strong while being very lightweight. Ebony is a heavy wood that would mute/dampen the sound even more than this bridge does.
What is the point of a bridge, I cannot adjust? I am not a hardcore traditionalist, and I think it should be possible to get a nice sounding bridge made of other material. My issue with cf here: - hard to adjust to the violin. This specific design it seems even impossible to adjust, IMHO rendering it useless - for this specific use case, A LOT of very strong rosin needs to be used with the fibers, which I fear will be dampening too much. This is not what cf usually does structurally. - the rosin is super hard, which may cause the instrument to be damaged, when the bridge slightly tilts Nevertheless, while it does sound rater muted to me on the video, it is of course no fair comparison for the technology in general. A bridge that is too high and not optimized to the violin vs one that has been adjusted perfectly to the violin. If the CF had not been worse in this case, it for sure had to be the future.
Prescindendo dal fatto che non si possono sentire differenze sostanziali in registrazioni del genere(aggiungendo che il violinista sente un suono e l'ascoltatore tutt'altro....), io l'aquistai per un violino in carbonio che uso per viaggiare (karbontasarim): risultato ottimo per studio! Ovviamente non lo avvicinerei mai ad un violino vero!!!
I think the recording setup was acoustically poor. It made the violin sound very tinny and nasally. Given that, the carbon fiber bridge had a much softer and nicer sound to my ear. I imagine the results could be very different in a concert hall.
any pre-fabricated bridge cannot seriously compete with a bridge which is directly contoured to the fingerboard and to the top-plate and to the position of the sound-post.
The vibration through the carbon fiber bridge seemed to not be as conducive to the vibration as through the wood bridge. Very muddy sounding . I have used carbon fiber on electric violins in performing It worked with the help of adjusting the amplifier But was no good un-amplified with no way to adjust the tone. It did not warp and was unaffected by the weather, But was still tinish even with proper impedance.
There is no calibrated player to make such a detailed examination of the sound characteristics to this fine level of scrutiny. All subjective. Not to complain about the violinist but if the bow is not exactly perpendicular to the string when played then sound power and frequency content is lost. Also at this fine level of scrutiny, even the player or luthier cannot remember in time what they heard over such a long time span to compare properly. Again, all subjective. A better measurement would be a vibrational analysis on the two bridges (both propery fitted) with 3-axis vibration transducers under the feet, gage R&R the bow, and analyse FFT the data by overlaying runs the two to compare the difference. Take the many other variables of the violin out of the evaluation.
It is made quite well, but the tone is not at all very good and certainly not better than maple. Also not being able to adjust the feet is a good reason not to use it.
I've been a subscriber for a long time. I don't like this format you are using now with it jumping around. I prefer just a natural video errors and all. This format is hard to watch. The carbon fiber is muted. Kind of deadens the sound.
Carbon fibre bridge? Yeah sure, on a fibreglass violin. Otherwise it's like a pig in a synagogue. It's not practical if you need 20 violins to find one that can fit the bridge. THe soft sweet sound suits a beginner but not anyone who wants to express themselves on the violin and pump out some good tonal variation.
The wood bridge sounds crisp and projects... The CF bridge sound muted and buzzy? at the same time. And it sounds like you have to make a violin to match the bridge.
As an aerospace composite designer I would like comment on a few things. Carbon fiber itself is not toxic, the resins used to make the composite might slightly be. Carbon fiber composite dust is not healthy but so are some wood dusts too.
When making a wooden bridge the maker takes care to orient the grain just right, the same should be done with the composite one too, one cannot just cut a piece of some laminate and say "this is it". Actually because of the great stiffness of CF the orientation is more critical.
The natural damping of CF composite is less than any wood (99.9% of the time) so the frequency response would be more even with high probability.
The one instrument where CF has worked really well is the flute.
I ordered one. Found a great way to fit it without poison dust. Stretched a plastic wrap (what you use for food dishes). Then held bridge in place with rubber band at f holes. Finally used JB Weld epoxy (very little bit) on the feet. After curing, carefully trim edges of feet neat. Perfect fit!
Carbon fibre is directional. The pressure points are not in the same direction where the weave of carbon fibre is taking the most stress, hence showing a weak muffled sound. The thickness of the bridge makes carbon fibre a weak material choice for this application as it will take forever to laminate the cf to the height of the bridge in the correct direction.
I agree with you Edgar. The fiber carbon bridge was very smooth, but muted in the areas where we needed it to scream out harmoniously. It was too, submissive in its' execution. Where as the wooden bridge had character in its sound and range, allowing the violinist to put their own personality into the musical piece. Thanks for testing, for your audience. 😊
The carbon fiber bridge sounded like it was muted opposed to just being warmer. I prefered the wooden bridge, it sounded brighter and much more colorful. Also the wooden bridge sounded like it projected better. I was wondering if repositioning the carbon fiber bridge would change the violins sound to be more consistent with the wooden bridge. Did you try that?
Hi Edgar,
I was curious also of the Stradpet carbon fiber bridge and purchased one over six months ago. The biggest downside is not being able to adjust the feet’s, as you noticed, these are already too thin. Haven’t found a violin top that would fit perfectly. Which is all in the wrong direction, we fit the bridge to the top, not the other way around.
Having said that, it showed a surprisingly “good enough” sound to leave me wondering what if solutions to shortcomings could be found.
A carbon fiber bridge would be indestructible; no need of replacement. Imagine the cost benefits of never having to change the bridge. Potential business downside to luthiers!!!
But then there is the string height issue. And for me, tuning the bridge is essential to squeeze out the best of an instrument.
It was an entertaining experience. Stradpet products are interesting. In particular the titanium fine tuners and tailguts. The last have become standard in my setups.
Thanks for always coming up with interesting videos!
I got one just a few months ago, for fun off amazon I think, just to try out. And, the muted sound, unadjustability - basically didn't like the sound at all. But, at least it was fun to try! I wonder if they could mess with thicknesses a little more - maybe hollow in the center, with feet that can rotate a little to match more archings ... maybe a different version would work better. Even with wood, the harder the bridge, the more focused sound you get - those soft bridges being great for beginner violins as they are quiet and mellow. And, a nice well cut hard bridge is just awesome!
Add some thin wood under the feet to adust.
If you have to cut or sand the top of bridge a little just wear a oaper mask.
Its no going to poison you.
I been working in the industry with carbon for many years.
I'm not sure if it had a softer sound, or if it was producing more even amplitude across a broader frequency response and that made everything being perceived softer. 🤔 That's what actually happens with the carbon fibre guitars I listened to (although they mechanically work in a different way than violins).
It would be worth to carry out a proper frequency spectrum analysis, try to EQ match a recording of both bridges, take a look at transients... It's always insightful to nerd out more deeply on new things that still have potential room for evolution.
i had the same feeling about frequencies
I am with you, the sound of the Carbon Fiber bridge is a bit muted. Thank you for sharing
I bought it, I liked it, but it mutes the sound a little and the strings on it break very quickly at the point of contact with it.
I agree with you. Some muted sound, in other way it is soft 😊
I make CF instruments. What is going on there is the temperature of the post cure. If it is only room temperature cured it will dampen the sound. The higher temp cure you go in 60°F increments the brighter it will sound. Now about the pads, warm them up a bit with your Bending Iron and then they will conform to the shape of the top better, only need to go to 140°F or so to soften them then they will cool to fit perfect.
I like the wooden bridge! That said, I think the Cf one can be useful in cheaper student entry level instruments, which often get their bridges neglected. I think it may present some unexpected problems with time as it doesn't bend or warp like wood, that tension may end expressing up somewhere else. Lastly I think a good thing to make it adjustable may be to put some real wood on the feets, that way you avoid working with the toxic material and it gives some room to adapt it to the top. If someone gets accustomed to playing with these and suddenly changes the bridge or gets a better instrument, it can be a process to adapt to its response. Like happens when you play on a plywood or poly laquered instrument and switch to a nicer one, suddenly you get much more upper armonics and it may present a challenge for some people.
Carbon fibre neck. Let's go.
Thank-you for your video (I love your videos)! I've tried the STRADPET on 4 of my fiddles, and it works well on 3 out of 4. I agree that the feet _must_ fit the instrument top for it to be usable on that instrument. I use Helicore Med tension strings on all of the instruments. I use it on an all carbon fiber fiddle that I use for playing outdoors (it sounds better than the bridge that came w/that fiddle); that fiddle also has a carbon fiber sound post. I use it on my pre-1890 HOPF which is a very FULL-sounding instrument, and the STRADPET tames it without muting its sound. It actually seems to even the tone across the instrument. Same thing on my pre-1890 Pfretzschner which is dark and loud with a wooden bridge but tame and even but not muted with the STRADPET. Just as with a wood bridge, the sound will vary depending on bow selection. The 3 instruments I described above all sound very nice with the Coda Prodigy bow with the STRADPET bridge 😊
The carbon fibre seems to dampen some overtones. I think it might be useful if you want to have a sound that blends well. It very much depends if you want a distinguished violin sound or if you want it as some background music or film music with a supportive role. It would be interesting how well it works in a string ensemble or in an orchestra. The wooden bridge probably also has some resonances that enhance certain frequencies and it probably also depends on the acoustics of the instrument itself how well it sounds as a combination of both.
The wooden bridge had a more complex sound as the carbon fiber has a different resonances than wood. If violin strings were changed to a brighter kind it might compensate much like different bows are better on a specific violin.
I thought I heard a difference between the two as he was playing scales, but couldn't tell the difference between them when he played his musical piece, but then again this is youtube, but the greatest for sound reproduction.
Hello Edgar, Just a correction for you. Carbon fiber dust is inert and no more dangerous than wood dust. You shouldn't inhale either. But to say it is poison would give people the wrong idea about it's danger. That is a myth going around the internet that people have bought in to. I work cutting and sanding carbon fiber everyday. Actually I make the "Gayford Carbon Strad" line of Violins. I found this review of the carbon fiber bridge very interesting as I have been experimenting with carbon bridges myself. I agree it doesn't sound as good as the wood bridge, but it is getting close. Carbon fiber is probably a thousand times stronger than wood so I think the carbon bridge needs to lose a lot more structure to be able to flex like the wood one does.
PS I have enjoyed and learned a great deal from your videos. Keep them coming
Very interesting. I agree it sounded less bright. The interesting question is "why?". Carbon fibre acoustic guitars exist and it is said the carbon fibre is very neutral... That it doesn't absorb or deaden any frequencies in the way different species of wood will lessen the volume of different frequencies. If we assume that to be true then the logical explanation for the wooden bridge being bright would be that it is failing to transmit all low/mid frequencies into the body
Very interesting video Edgar, Thank you. I wonder how good/bad a carbon fiber sounds post will be?
I made carbon bridge for my cello and sounds ok.
Nice for suttlle environments, I would suppose, but I prefer the fulness of a wooden bridge. Thank you for the review.
Something new to try
Honestly, I was very surprised to find that the wooden bridge sounds harsh to me. The carbon one sounds a lot smoother and friendlier. I know it's the wrong answer, but that's what I hear.
I have changed my mind on carbon fiber violin bridges. In the event one would recieve a green or poorly grained violin bridge, I think a carbon fiber bridge might be sturdier than a cheap wood bridge. I may have turned up my nose at carbon fiber bridges in the past; but now believe there is a viable place for these new bridges should one fall victim to poorly made bridge blanks. The other pluss is that the maple supply will be eased by the introduction of the currious new bridges😅
i liked the wooden one better it projected better and it can be fitted to any violin easily enough that anyone could do it as far as the feet go any way . the carbon fiber one was sweet but it would only work if it fit your violin and who is to say it would . how ever i think if you took the time to fit it to a violin it would be a good violin bridge for a kids violin as it would never wear out or change with time and moister . you could always carve the feet to fit with a little work with sand paper or a file or even a dremel but wear a respirator or a face mask .
Stronger mechanical properties, does it really fit on this point to the mechanical properties of the violin structure? Does the bridge have to be the hardest material part on the violin structure, or could it be built to filter or absorb some undesired frequencies resonating in the instrument ??
The carbon fiber bridge sounds to me like it hasn't been pared down enough, which gives it a more muted sound lacking mid harmonics. You said it was 2mm taller. I imagine it's thicker too. If you cut it down and make it thinner, I bet it'll sound better. I would love to see you revisit this bridge after making those adjustments!
I prefer the carbon fiber!!🙏
Gratitude! You for cameo of carbon fiber bridge. I felt it lacked amplitude! If you cant sand it or plane it because of toxic dust what is the point. In all fairness i think it would make a great spare bridge in case your pet bridge warps or snaps. Thank you for showing it to.me I think I like aged Maple better. Carbon fiber fine for begining student.
I agree it the carbon fibre bridge gave the sound a somewhat muted sound but potentially more even? I prefer the wooden bridge however especially as it is so easily made and adjusted by hand to any instrument.
Correct!
Hi edgar I saw you did a video on spirit varnish a while ago, and have a recipe online. Do you have any guidance on changing the colour from yellow (e.g. to orange using madder root mix) and the lightfastness of the colours?
Totally agree. Some overtones were dropped.
This kind of like matching impedance for power transfer in electronic engineering, wood to wood is the best sound transfer for a wood violin.
by a small, i really mean small margin the carbon is good handling high-pitched sound than wooden one. warm and bright a little bit, but for lower frequency it will suffer more than you think. just my oppinion as an ex-sound-man😊
we do notice that with the higher action tone quality changes and that could elicit the sound post to be slightly adjusted. the dimensions are a bit poorly thought leaving no wiggle room for adjust but the inlays on the front certainly compensate for the mass and density discrepancy. looks cool, details are there and for the price its kind of attractive given it will never warp. maybe varnish the feet wouldnt be so hard on your violin top? im just a player.
It looks like they took some effort to engineer it with the bottom thinning and holes. If it actually has strength, it might allow wood removal to a level that might compromise an all-wood bridge, if that helps with the sound.
Rein vom Ton im Video finde ich den Klang des traditionell hölzernen Stegs schöner. Er scheint ausgeglichen und im richtigen Maß straff, wohingegen der Carbon-Steg tendenziell matschiger und gleichzeitig spitz klingt. Aufgrund der angedeuteten Probleme mit Abschabungen im Lack wäre ich mir auch unsicher, ob der Carbon-Steg meine Geige beschädigen würde, wenn dieser z.B. beim Spielen wegspringt... er ist zudem aufgrund der zu schmalen Füße auch nicht richtig anpassbar....
Well maple which I think is the traditional bridge material vibrates alot and helps transfer. Vibration to the soundpost. Carbon fiber is used in tone arms on some expensive turntables because you want the opposite of transferring vibration. So its very inert. I would think it would dampen the sound.
I play a carbon fiber violin that comes with a carbon fiber bridge but I found it too high so I had it changed out into a wooden one. Immediately the volume of the violin became smaller and less brilliant. I do wish the original bridge had been lower.
I soak my violin bridges in wood hardener for a day, dry them and then shape and install. The job of the bridges is to transfer vibration to the top, then down the sound post to the back plate. CF may be too hard and not flexible enough. I'll test it.
The wodden bridge sounds much more brilliant and also loudther. The sound is also more differentiate. The carbon bridge is muzzled and holds back.
The company's fine tuners and tail gutt are more interesting, but Im hoping you bought their titanium tailpiece. I've wondered about its weight vs my imagination that it would be like putting a tin can at the end of the strings.
They should make an adjustable bridge in carbon fiber where the feet can move like ive seen with maple adjustable bridges. Or make a hybrid with wood feet so you can trim.
I want to try one.
Perhaps try a messingcopper bridge it is a softer material to work with.
😋👌🏼
Good idea!
But I actually love to work with wood!
A skinnier carbon fiber I think would lessen the muting
It sounded cleaner than the wooden bridge but muted. And I hate the damage it’ll do to the violin wood top
The Carbon Fiber Bridge was less prone to producing harsh, screeching tones, but was a bit muted, and resulted in a lower volume.
"Carbon nanotubes (CNTs) can look similar in shape and size to asbestos fibers, which has raised concerns about possible health effects. CNTs have a fibrous needle-like shape, a high surface-to-volume ratio, and can persist in lung tissue. Inhaling CNTs could potentially cause conditions similar to asbestosis, so people working with them should take precautions."
Using a carbon fibre bridge is like shopping for a car to fit your tyre or buying a house to match your letter box
It happened as I expected. The density of the carbon compound is much higher than that of maple which results in a weaker sound - like with a sordino.
The density of a carbon laminate is double that of maple. So the bridge needs to me thinner. Then you end up with the reduced contact area on the surface of the instrument. I think this could be solved with redesign and a bit more complex manufacturing method. A simple sheet of carbon laminate is not going to do the trick.
@@sayithigher Carbon fibre-enforced epoxy foam may be a better variant. However, that isn't easy to source.
The only carbon fibre laminate I use is for securing cracks inside the instrument with some 0.2 mm thick pellets glued with wood-compatible super-glue.
I’m surprised that the carbon fiber muted a lot of high pitch resonance. The sound is rounder than the wood one…
I think if a violin was made to maximise the attributes and minimise the inadequacies of a cf bridge, it may be an option. As things are, you are putting a material with an instrument that was designed for another material.
Personally, I think the advantages of cf are not for purist musicality, but more for durability and it being impervious to temperature and humidity. For some, the practicality of that might be an advantage.
Just a thought. As ever, an interesting video! ;))
With carbon fiber, how would you fit that to the top plate of a specific violin?
I would imagine that you could not just hollow the feet with a knife blade.
New materials would demand new tooling and new techniques I expect.
Carbon fiber sands as easily as wood. Just put some 220 around a dowel and sand the feet to match your violin top.
I heard a cello like quality from the carbon bridge FWIW
In the low and middle register it sounded muted, and with few overtones. In the upper register it sounded harsh with few overtones. How much did it cost?
It's the same. Luthier just makes a big deal of everything after they touch it. Just charge u monies for their livings.
best wood
Wooden sounded better..i agree the CF was a bit muffled.
I think I enjoyed the carbon fibre bridge more. How would I fair if I were to be blindfolded? Also I would like to hear the test over a higher range of frequencies. ( C4 t0 C5, for example)
I would not attempt to tonally compare CF with a wood bridge. They are incompatible materials. Seems CF bridges are designed for CF or solid body instruments where dimensional stability is less of a contributing factor to physical or acoustical dynamics. Possibly properly fitted it may serve as an emergency backup bridge for a traditional violin. Likewise my thoughts may be less valid if the his application is made on a cello or bass. They may respond more positively than the upper string instruments.
Hello Master Edgar. I didn't like it at all. If we pay attention, we notice that with the wooden bridge, the sound lasts longer. With the carbon bridge (in addition to the adjustment difficulties) it seems to me that some notes come out without projection. It's my opinion, of course🤔
Maybe you can try ebony bridge? It is still wood and available in some online shop from china.
For maximum effectiveness, a bridge needs to be hard and strong while being very lightweight. Ebony is a heavy wood that would mute/dampen the sound even more than this bridge does.
What is the point of a bridge, I cannot adjust? I am not a hardcore traditionalist, and I think it should be possible to get a nice sounding bridge made of other material.
My issue with cf here:
- hard to adjust to the violin. This specific design it seems even impossible to adjust, IMHO rendering it useless
- for this specific use case, A LOT of very strong rosin needs to be used with the fibers, which I fear will be dampening too much. This is not what cf usually does structurally.
- the rosin is super hard, which may cause the instrument to be damaged, when the bridge slightly tilts
Nevertheless, while it does sound rater muted to me on the video, it is of course no fair comparison for the technology in general. A bridge that is too high and not optimized to the violin vs one that has been adjusted perfectly to the violin. If the CF had not been worse in this case, it for sure had to be the future.
Can you try the Anima Nova carbon fiber soundpost for cello?
Prescindendo dal fatto che non si possono sentire differenze sostanziali in registrazioni del genere(aggiungendo che il violinista sente un suono e l'ascoltatore tutt'altro....), io l'aquistai per un violino in carbonio che uso per viaggiare (karbontasarim): risultato ottimo per studio! Ovviamente non lo avvicinerei mai ad un violino vero!!!
I think the recording setup was acoustically poor. It made the violin sound very tinny and nasally. Given that, the carbon fiber bridge had a much softer and nicer sound to my ear. I imagine the results could be very different in a concert hall.
высота 2 мм очень много для маста уризаются высокие частоты так что эксперимент неудачный
Carbon fiber is dangerous to sand if particles get into your lungs. Not everyone has the proper respirator for sanding this material
any pre-fabricated bridge cannot seriously compete with a bridge which is directly contoured to the fingerboard and to the top-plate and to the position of the sound-post.
The vibration through the carbon fiber bridge seemed to not be as conducive to the vibration as through the wood bridge. Very muddy sounding . I have used carbon fiber on electric violins in performing It worked with the help of adjusting the amplifier But was no good un-amplified with no way to adjust the tone. It did not warp and was unaffected by the weather, But was still tinish even with proper impedance.
the carbon fiber bridge isn't as bad as i thought, but still, its not the best choice, comparison to the regular wood one ://
The carbon fiber bridge sounded dull. That wasn't a surprise to me because the carbon fiber bows I've tried sound dull too.
Carbon fiber layered for structural strength do yeah. When layered for vibration they sound quite good! Check out Arcus's Bows if you are interested!
carbon sounds less acoustic
There is no calibrated player to make such a detailed examination of the sound characteristics to this fine level of scrutiny. All subjective. Not to complain about the violinist but if the bow is not exactly perpendicular to the string when played then sound power and frequency content is lost. Also at this fine level of scrutiny, even the player or luthier cannot remember in time what they heard over such a long time span to compare properly. Again, all subjective. A better measurement would be a vibrational analysis on the two bridges (both propery fitted) with 3-axis vibration transducers under the feet, gage R&R the bow, and analyse FFT the data by overlaying runs the two to compare the difference. Take the many other variables of the violin out of the evaluation.
It is made quite well, but the tone is not at all very good and certainly not better than maple. Also not being able to adjust the feet is a good reason not to use it.
It muffled (not muted) the tone. Would be too aggravating, like looking thru eyeglasses needing to be cleaned.
I don't like the carbon fibre bridge sounf at all. To me, it's a harsher and less colourful tone.
I've been a subscriber for a long time. I don't like this format you are using now with it jumping around. I prefer just a natural video errors and all. This format is hard to watch. The carbon fiber is muted. Kind of deadens the sound.
I think it needs to be skinnier
if a luthier is to make the violin's sound more projecting then this carbon bridge surely destroys everything the maker's intention...
Still the wooden bridge more rich and loud than the carbon viber since the wooden material is made by God unlikely the carbon viber made by human😅
Not all Carbon Fiber is created equal.. Wood is better..
Less bass and overall brings out less of the violin sound than wood.
Carbon fibre bridge? Yeah sure, on a fibreglass violin. Otherwise it's like a pig in a synagogue. It's not practical if you need 20 violins to find one that can fit the bridge.
THe soft sweet sound suits a beginner but not anyone who wants to express themselves on the violin and pump out some good tonal variation.
carbon fiber should not be used for submarines AND violin bridges.
Not good at all. You can destroy violin top. Stradpet is so strange company - good violin with good setup don't need Stradpet "high tech".
🙁 I don't think I'm a fan...
The wood bridge sounds crisp and projects...
The CF bridge sound muted and buzzy? at the same time. And it sounds like you have to make a violin to match the bridge.
灵缇NB