I had a tour of the the Bremont Wing as an ordinary person (I just bought a ticket) just before the Longitude was launched. They were very open about the new movement, that it was a licenced design that they'd modified and were now manufacturing, that they'd got it wrong with their first "in house" movement. I'd say it's as in house as most movements in the industry outside Rolex, Seiko and Citizen. It's certainly more in house than the movement in my mum's 1970s Rolex was!
Absolutely spot on regarding brands buying movement suppliers mate, Rolex did it and no one blinks an eyelid. Regarding the integrated bracelet trend /fashion /dullness, I'm still waiting for the new Ingenieur.... If they don't then they're mental and missing a lucrative trick
Rolex had an exclusive agreement with Aegler for many decades before they bought them, so much so that they even changed their name to Manufacture des Montres Rolex SA while still being owned by the Aegler family.
Absolutely! I'm waiting for the IWC. I hope it'll be 38mm x 10mm . Ingenieur is an amazing watch. And there's so much potential here to bring it back better than before
@@paulhickmott6129 Zenith only came in in 1988, with the Cal. 4030, which was an El Primero slowed down to 28,000vph. Prior to that, the manual wind Daytonas were powered by Valjoux calibers.
Adrian, your clarity of argument about “in-house” movements is welcome. Great to see you stepping on a few toes. Long may your honesty continue. Brilliant.
GP laureato is absolutely a great watch. I like its design. It has history. And it has true in-house movement (guess what, certain Royal Oak models are not using in-house movement and instead have Frederic Piguet’s movement lol).
I’m not the biggest fan of Bremont but I respect them. It’s not easy to be the new kid on the block. Yes, their prices put them above similar watches from other big names but it’s also true that they cannot lower their prices like the Swatch Group brand can as they have higher production costs. Hopefully we can expect more from them.
I’m enjoying seeing them develop. If they buy in a movement and brand it as their own, that’s what it is. A smaller company can’t develop everything. Look at cars. There’s a lot of branded cam covers over someone else’s engine. A few tweaks and if they’ve bought the rights, good luck to them.
Bremont is a brand I ignored for sometime due to the forum bias for Swiss watches from certain brands. I have now bought my first Bremont, an Airco Mach 2 on bracelet. It is a "gentleman explorer" type watch, at 40mm, 12.5mm thick, screw down crown, tip-trick body and chronometer ETA 2982 movement with upgraded balance wheel and spring to be anti-magnetic. It is not only one of the most gorgeous watches I have bought, it is also incredibly comfortable as a daily watch. What struck me about the finishing is that it is far superior to anything I have seen under £3000, and the tip-trick body is quite something. Bremont is one of those companies that goes for more clarity on the dial, a bit like Nomos and Sinn, at the expense of some of the glamour of the more exuberant brands. Everything is personal taste. I love the GP, I actually think it is more beautiful than the AP and the Nautilus, which I frankly don't like the portal design that much. The Bremont Supernova though is a super watch in hand though, slightly more subtle top down, although I like the white more than the black. From the side and back its quite special. I think it's a great alternative if you dont want to splash to the GP. In fact my integrated bracelet watches run something like: Maurice Le Croix Aikon, Christopher Ward 12 Chronometer, Bremont Supernova, GP, Chopard Alpine eagle. That's my list of beauty. Yours will be different ....
Oh man that new GP is awesome...think I finally want one. And I so appreciate screws on the bracelet rather than some of the other high horology sport watches having pins. As for the Bremont in-house movement drama, yeah, foul on that play for sure.
Separate comment about the Bremont movement part. I completely agree with you. Loads have done it too. Rolex bought their movement supplier in the early 2000s. It’s been happening forever. I think the issue with the Bremont for me is the price. It’s nearly 1k more than the Zenith Skyline which has a lot more heritage for a watch trying to be a bit like a RO, it appears slightly better made and is cheaper. One last thing. In an old Bremont vid you did, I’m sure the answer given about why Bremont watches were more expensive than maybe they should be given the movements inside them (eta type stuff) by Bremont themselves was that they needed the current buyers to pay for the R&D being poured into the new “in house” movements. Where did all that money on R&D go? Was it wasted? Or was it never happening.
Sounds like the R&D was for manufacturing, not design. Though we obviously don’t know what changes (if any) Bremont have made to the movement other than putting their name on it
@@SifuJames77 this was years ago before they were trying to buy the horage movement. I think they must've spent a lot of money on something that never saw the light of day.
As always great content Adrian my only criticism is I wish you made more! Love you stuff dude. Agree with your point on in-house movements ,if your going to point your finger at one brand that’s bought a movement and not design it themself then it’s only fair to do the same with all brands regardless of how big a name they are in the industry.
Great video! I agree with you on more than one level: 1) We should hold all brands to the same standard. 2) I care about esthetics and performance; the labels don't mean much to me. My one caveat is that there are certain watches that I love because of movement design and finishing (in the indy space), but even there, I'm fine with the fact that, for example, Habring2 uses a 7750 as a base and then makes it their own.
You have nailed it Adrian. There is so much bullshit, underhand tactics and snobbery in the watch world. So many other TH-camrs shamelessly talk about Rolex and have so called insider sources and intel...yet it is just for clicks - bullshit! Your content continues to improve and you present it in what I call "a proper no nonsense" manner as opposed to former/current dealers who make out they do ...but then get defensive when called out. That is why you have 240k subscribers and others do not.
Chisholm is the bomb and yes, maybe it’s just that I belong to a specific generation, but the Mario Cart Tag, especially the tourbillion with the little carts ticking around it, is epic. On an unrelated note, I’m looking for a loan for about $26k, preferably without any of those pesky, “you have to pay this back” stipulations.
Another thoughtful and topical discussion. Adrian, you are carving out an interesting niche and where are you Address controversial topics that others ignore. Very refreshing it and Frank
Great video. Brands buy cases too (sometimes from lower cost places), and get movements sourced from many sources, incl their group movement company/division. Cheers.
There is a case to be argued that watch TH-camrs go for the “low hanging fruit” at times. Very often making vids about the buzz word brands that work for the algorithm like Rolex and Patek. They partly feed the attention in the sales nowadays. It’s weird to see these same creators getting frustrated with the popular brands doing something unoriginal. Sorry not meant to be a jibe but it is a little ironic in general. You do some great vids and always have. Patek have released some wonderful watches this year. The 5172g with the Salmon dial is a particular favourite of mine. They’ve done a lot of good stuff this year, not just the Nautilus they just announced. They did some other cool watches like the new World Timer with the current releases.
1, what you've described isn't a youtube thing, it's a media thing. Since day one of journalism there have been hot topics and not so hot topics. Naturally, the hot topics are important to cover for 2 reasons: one it's typically what the reader/viewers want to hear, hence them being hot. Secondly, if the publication, or creator wants to remain relevant, then it's an important thing to cover. It's like any job and basic project/task management, some projects are more impactful than others. If you want to progress, you focus on the impactful projects. 2, you've described is the youtube equivalent to the "Swimmer's Body Illusion", swimmers don't have the long slim bodies because they swim, they swim because they are long and slim. Larger watch youtube's don't make content about Rolex and Patek to feed the algorithm, they have a large audience and get picked up by the algorithm because they make videos about Rolex and Patek. Also, I spoke about the new 5172g when it was launched at W&W, it was my highlight.
@@BarkandJack I don’t agree with you on point two. YT is all about click through rate. Contentious titles with YT and the right brand names work. There is a skill to growing on YT and it’s not just about video quality. It’s not about natural swimming talent etc. TH-camrs do tweak themselves and their own content to generate clicks, we all do it. You can clearly see it all over the place. TH-camrs and the videos they make is more akin to headlines on Tabloid papers than straight journalism. There is nothing wrong with this. As for part one. I don’t agree either but that’s okay. It’s easier to make the “popular choice” contentious take on the latest releases video. Than it is to talk through the new releases in full and the merits of each. Patek didn’t just release the new 5811, you seem (almost) frustrated that this release is unoriginal etc but you don’t talk about their other releases? Is that the viewers fault, is that the fault of the people that buy the watches? Or are you playing to the audience to get views? It wasn’t just sheer journalism that was the motivation for this video. It made a good theme for an interesting video that people might like to watch and click on. Watch YTers are not journalists solely. They are people offering an opinion and sometimes a hot take to share and we enjoy seeing it. There needs to be no substantiation or impartiality. You can just say what you think into a camera and press the upload button. Plenty of the more journalistic places like Revolution lead with the thumb of the 5811 but talked about all the watches etc.
@@BarkandJack sorry I do find what you’re saying is interesting. So one more reply. It feels like point 1 and 2 of your reply seem actually the opposite of each other. Point 1 is that the media chooses what they produce for the public because what is “popular” is what the people want to see. Where as part 2 says that swimmers don’t grow their long slim body as they swim, they are naturally that way. But you’ve just said the media CHOOSE their articles based on what is popular. They tailor what they produce for what people want to consume. This is where the swimmers analogy falls down. You choose the content you make, you already have the large following. You get to set the agenda now, but your still trying to pick a “popular topic” for your audience. In other words your audience is tailoring your content to some extent. When you started on YT and began making videos you made what you kinda liked. But be honest with yourself, over the years you have learned to get a bit of a steer as to what video will do well and what won’t, how to maximise your views, and what topics to cover and will have tailored yourself a little towards that. It’s absolutely human nature. You have been tailored in the content you make by the years of experience you have gained being a YTer. Everyone that does YT does it to expand and grow. In other word what we end up with is YTers critiquing brands for giving their customers what they want when it may well be unoriginal. While the YTer does the very same thing in delivering their viewers the same kind of “popular” but maybe not so rigorous or original content because that is what their audience clicks on… M
@@TheRunningManZ Sorry I meant to add a bit to explain what the 1 and 2 meant.... your original comment highlights 2 separate things: 1, it isn't to youtube, but rather media re. low-hanging fruit. 2, swimmer body.... Ultimately I talk about what I like on my channel, if I find something interesting I talk about it. At the start i thought my channel grew quickly because people liked my content, I later learned it's because I like rolex and omega and therefore make content that the masses liked. The way I see it is, I might have a list of 10-15 topics that I want to talk about, perhaps 5 of them I'm equally keen to talk about, however, I only make 1 video a week, so naturally, I usually choose the biggest hitting topic. For me this is just logical, and anything else should be classed as self-sabotage. When I worked in HR, I knew my CEO likes to see growth in sales, so naturally, I focused my time on developing the sales teams. If I were to spend time on developing the finance teams. Just like on your channel, you see patterns and you work with them. It would be silly to see a title or format blow up and not work to those strengths. Imagine how successful if Shaq didn't want to play basketball and wanted to be a jockey instead. Play to your strengths. TH-camrs 100% tweak / optimize their content to get a better reach, and better performance. Just like swimmers shaving their bodies and wearing goggles, you take the natural talent and enhance it. To do anything else is just silly. I hate having my face in the thumbnail, but if doing so factually and drastically increases the clickthrough rate, then it's a tiny price to pay for the result. I don't feel your comment holds much of an argument beyond the frustration of people talking about the same thing. But that's how news works. All weather channels report the same thing, and when it's rainy, it's usually followed by a negative comment. There are natural trends within our community, and naturally us presenters who have common opinion tend to grow. I've done a whole video dedicated to the feedback loop between content creators and the community - th-cam.com/video/oC3F8nYQ0oA/w-d-xo.html.
@@BarkandJack I don’t see it your way and that is fine. Thanks for taking the time to write your reply. In extremely simplistic terms Patek make the 5811 to sell more watches. You make this video to get more views while talking about the 5811 being for the “unoriginal.” There is irony in that. I really like what they’ve done with the 5811. I believe that T Stern cares about the whole brand and they don’t want to be a “one watch wonder” like AP. You can see it in their catalogue of current watches. You can see it in their decision to move the most popular Nautlius into precious metal. This has been met with cynicism by some and I can see why. But if you look across the whole catalogue I see many compelling watches. I really like their none sports models, i think that is what they do best and it’s where their history is at it’s very best. I think Patek do want to make sure people value their whole catalogue, so they have moved more away from the ”steel sports” arena and left that for Rolex et al. So that they can protect their wider brand and not end up like AP. This is a very wise decision.
New Bremonts look lovely, I think what they've accomplished there is great, I'm not too worried about "how in house" the movement it seems to be a solid one and having been round the wing they're creating a new generation of watch makers in the UK, good luck to them
I am interested in what brands say and do. And as I have pointed out to Adrian in my comment above, he’s got the wrong end of the stick regarding Bremont…
Let the movement be theirs. Love the Bremont line of watches,but can’t afford one. Here in Australia,if a foreigner living here becomes successful,we adopt them & call them Aussie. Same thing. My wife’s British & now I’m calling here Aussie. We’re all in the Commonwealth so Bremont are now Australian as well. Love your work & reviews. Paul.👍
Loving the fact that if a brand doesn’t like what you say, that’s THEIR problem. You’re not sponsored and you give YOUR opinion. If they don’t like that, that’s their problem, NOT ours. If you love a watch buy it! Don’t listen to others. My Omega Seamaster is scratched to shit, each scratch has a memory, hence love for that watch. My grandfather’s seamaster, same thing, I’d never want it to be polished to perfection, he bought it circa 1950-60 ish, it’s mine now, I love it!
Agree completely - we can all give our opinions - we are the Master’s of our own experiences ! but first we have to get our facts straight. Unfortunately, I think Adrian has made an error regarding Bremont. See my detailed comment to him.
Daytona was powered by a Zenith Movement for a long time .. and yet people don't give rolex a hard time about it. This new Bremont is nice, and I do love the movement, but the price tag is OUCH! .. and the lud to lug .. yeah, I agree. Not good at all. I have a Supermarine S2000 with a 52mm lug to lug length and that fits well .. but it's also a 45mm watch. So the Supernova is a bit of a head scratcher. Interested to see the next iteration and see how that fits.
Adrian - I really enjoy your videos; like you, I just love watches. Usually, you’re bang on, however, having watched and rewatched your video, specifically about Bremont and the movement inside the Supernova, I believe you have got the wrong end of the stick… At 7:44 you say: “I would have loved Bremont to change the narrative, change the typical stance around in house and making things in house and just said: ‘guys, we found an awesome movement by this smal manufacturer in Switzerland, we love this movement so much that we’re actually buying the rights to it. We bought it, we’re going to get it manufactured in England, this is going to be the first in house Bremont movement.’ I’m pretty sure we would get behind it.” Well Bremont DID say that. Almost exactly as you have laid it out, perhaps with the exception of calling the THE+ “in-house”. They were at pains to spell things out and to be transparent. FACT: Bremont fully acquired the rights to the K1 calibre from THE+ (associated with Horage), re-engineered 80% of the movement’s weight, and now can claim that the movement will be 100% assembled at its own manufacture. Bremont has acquired the rights to manufacture and re-engineer an original ébauche (base movement) named the K1 calibre from Swiss firm The+. Bremont’s press release about this came out in October 2021 and they explained that they now owned the IP to the original K1 calibre from The+. Bremont explained that they had completed a transfer of expertise and practices from The+. And also that Bremont was now manufacturing, assembling, and certifying its new ENG300 movements in-house using the Bremont H1 Timing Standard, similar to the ISO3159:2009 Chronometer test. Importantly, Bremont is not claiming to produce 100% of the components of the ENG300 in-house. However, it’s worth noting that movement parts, main-plates, balance bridges are manufactured and finished at Bremont’s Manufacturing & Technology Centre. The movement is however fully assembled in-house, including jewel setting and regulation. Bremont has achieved something admirable here and have taken a massive gamble that the watch community at large would be interested in obtaining a UK-manufactured watch and movement. I believe you need to correct what you have said and issue Bremont with an apology. Then do as you say and get behind them !
You must have missed all the press releases via other Watch Channels and Brremont etc that made no-such point about purchasing this "in house movement". Saying something quietly 1 year ago then contradicting yourself via subsequent media releases is not being transparent.
Hi Adrian, I think the Hype is cooling down with the issues also rich people are facing with the downturn of the economy. The Laureato is nice and cool - but the GP logo looks so incredible "cheap". Like the Moritz Grossmann logo on their 20thousand Euro what-ever-watches. Tissot is really still the killer (PRX). Bremont sounds like a french cream cheese in German supermarkets. I recommend to sell it as Broment in German speaking countries, ha, ha ... Still would go for a normal Swatch until the inflated prices will cool down as well. Just wait another 6 months. Cheers from Germany - many thanks for your infotainement.
Absolutely agree with your statement regarding in-house movements, and all the hype around Omega and Richemont this days. Thats why I love Rolex, quite no politics, no statements, just a superb solid product...
Spot on Adrian. I think a lot of people out there does not know about what other 'bigger' brands been doing, hence the selective labelling. Need more content like this. Nevertheless, respect for Bremont with this move.
Thank you for the honesty and insight! Controversial opinion hacking doesn't matter as all watches will be off by atleast a second next day and as long as the power reserve will last how long I sleep I'm not fussed either. I would rather manufacturers spent the effort on material science making things thinner and lighter
Quality video, Adrian. Bravo for calling out the culture of bashing of brands like Bremont for perfectly legitimate movement acquisitions, when other more prestigious brands get carte blanche.
Absolutely spot on with the whole in house movement discussion. We should also add the “Swiss” conversation as well .. parts made elsewhere in the world and put together in Switzerland is enough to be called Swiss Made … brand loyalty turns a blind eye to that little spoiler as well.
Agree with all your comments LOVE the Laureato with copper dial I don’t knock Patek for the Nautilus. Beautiful watch in white gold. I’m just envious as I can’t afford it!
I don't have expensive luxury watches but am used to watches by Hamilton and Longines being basic ETA or Sellita and updating/finishing them to their own specs and using their own movement number (for example, the H10 and L888). As long as I can find a more detailed description at WatchBase or Caliber Corner for info to use when buying a watch, I'm ok with that. I was even able to find info on my 1960s Vulcain Meteor III that way (turned out to be at heart an ETA movement Vulcain modified).
Good video Adrian. I have to agree on this whole in-house nonsense. While I do typically prefer these movements, it's not because of who makes them. I just prefer something more advanced, rather than off the shelf. The movement sharing by Tudor / Breitling is a good example of this. I want higher power reserves without sacrificing frequency. I want anti-magnetic properties. I'd prefer some nice finishing, etc. I've also had some really great experiences with ETA and Sellita movements as well, BUT (this is a big BUT) when I buy a watch with an ETA or Sellita, I better be charged fairly for it. Breitling has had some criminal recent releases where they charge a premium but put an off the shelf movement with a low power reserve in a new watch. I'm sorry, but if you are selling a diver for 6 thousand dollars with a 38 hour power reserve off the shelf movement (when you have access to Tudor/ Kennisi movements with 70 hour power reserve and silicon hairspring) then you lose my respect. Anyway, I think another good example is the new IWC Mark XX. Would love to see you do a hands on review, with both the bracelet and some OEM straps. Sure, that movement isn't "in-house" so much as "in-group", but I don't think I'll care in the day to day when I'm enjoying that 120 hour PR.
For me in house a good as it’s made in Britain. My friend had a problem with his Bremont Martin Baker, sent it back to them and was able to talk to the watchmaker who was repairing it at the time which I thought was really cool as when my Submariner went back to Rolex for a service I had to deal with Goldsmiths Sheffield as an intermediary.
Your comment about a cluster of watch releases recently that are not adventurous about their design - I am so pleased you said that. I was thinking it myself but that it was just me who noticed.
One last thing. What's going on with Christopher Ward? They seem to be drifting into more or less all plain three handed dive watches. Yes, there a couple of specialities and a few GMT's. But is now, basically, all plain everyday dive watches - yawn.
To me the label "in-house" is purposefully misleading, which makes me feel sad. It makes me feel even more sad given that I also don't care much whether this is theirs or someone else's movement, if it's a good one and priced accordingly.
@@larsstougaard7097 Panerai is worse than anyone as they took fantastically decorated ETA movements and replaced them with fugly “in house” movements that a) aren’t in house, b) are awfully decorated, and c) cost ridiculously money given a) and b).
Man, that GP. Didn't think I'd like that color combo but it's really changing my mind. Agree that we standardize how we label these movements, not for the sake of s***ing on companies but for consumer transparency. Because in the end is an ENG300 better than a high end ETA? Who know but shouldn't be assumed that it is amazing because it's "in house"
Nicely done and well thought out as usual. And your logic is faultless. I have been a bremont basher if I’m honest because I hate dishonesty. Which is a shame because that business aside I love their English heritage and I really like their watches. But bovine faeces aside I can’t pay more money for their super marine when the BB 58 is cheaper and better in all ways except perhaps the design ethic (I prefer the look of the bremont and that’s it). Perhaps secondary market
It’s balls - I agree, call a spade a spade and have transparency on movements. I just want quality - so don’t care if you bought the rights or not. Keep up all the great content Adrian And that GP is 🔥🔥
Adrian. 100% agree with your comments. As always a BS free zone at Bark & Jack. Love the podcast cast About effing time. Can't wait for new episodes. Keep it going.
Re: 5811, it's a shrewd business move to capture the margin...and yes, PP is a business!! In terms of movement, I think Bremont could be communicate better, but wholeheartedly agree that we need consistency...for most of watchmaking history it has been pretty standard practice (hence JLCs reputation). For example, VC is holy trinity and proud of its history as an etablisseur (watchmaker who buys in ebuches and parts and then elevates them through design, regulation and finishing).
I reckon the issue for any maker like Bremont should be the quality of the movement - not whether it is "in-house". If, just hypothetically speaking, Bremont bought a good reliable chronometer grade JLC movement, then for me that would be massively preferable than if they came up with something "in-house" with a legion of reliability issues and which performed +/- 20 seconds a day! (And yeah, I know JLC are probably no longer supplying to anyone outside of the Richemont Group, but I'm just saying.) Obviously, when it comes to Patek, Lange, Journe, etc, one now kind of expects in-house calibers - because it's part of the ultra-exclusivity that we are paying for. But people should always look at the quality of the movement first and foremost, IMO.
The first automatic chronograph was a collaboration between Heuer Breitling and Hamilton it was put in the Monaco as we all know and it is still today a revered piece. That’s how it was that’s how it’s done. Now if Tag Heuer modifies a seiko movement and calls it in house even after they outright buy the licensing to the movement they are chastised. in-house is a marketing ploy for your money not their Horological respect that went away in the 60’s. You want in-house it will cost you less than $200 buy a Seiko snk809 from a company totally vertically integrated. Respect the piece you have for what went into making it.
Yes the comments are correct , but as I see it it's fine but it's a purchased patent and the Vacheron movement is based on the old JLC . All fine but those are the facts . A friend of mine bought the Tudor and I did say to him it's a Breitling movement . No worries to him , funny the AD told a slightly different story .
Great video as always Adrian, really informative and the cinematics were on point 👌 I have a question, kind of out of topic, but what are your thoughts on the Le Rhöne Hedönia? It's following the trend of integrated bracelet watches, and it shares a reassemblence to the Patek Philippe Nautilus
Problem with Bremont is when they first said in house (not this time around ) they were caught lying and that set the crowd into a frenzy . So now they say in house I guess you have to define in house buying the rights to something and adding your own decorations to it could make it in house ish but your point is valid just tell the truth and be transparent problem is the whole industry is anything but transparent …
Adrian captured my thoughts on the PP5811 exactly. Patek increased the case by 1MM but did not increase the power reserve. Very disappointing, I expected a lot more from Patek.
Love the brutally honest stance on this video! You could have easily protected Bremont and blown smoke up them similar to an unoriginal influencer desperate for a quick back hander. More of this please Adrian... unleash hell!
I think Patek will follow up the _5811/1G-001_ with a Stainless Steel version. But they want to decouple the link between the price of the old steel 5711 and the eventual new steel 5811. My theory is that Patek want to bump up the price of the steel edition heavily. So I think they are going to give it as long a break as they dare, probably two or three years and then release a steel replacement at a whole new price point. That's one of the reasons that the white gold 5811 has had it's price set so much higher; so as to leave room for the steel one. In the meantime, the new _5811_ can do the job of brining in money from those desperate enough to want a white metal _Nautilus._ In the meantime, you can expect other precious metal versions; platinum, and yellow and rose gold, to fill the gap.
I love Bremont's designs, especially the robust case structure, the dial layout etc. But I'm not a fan of this new release. I wish they could have done it in a way that continued their own design elements instead of borrowing obvious cues from other watches (AP in this case). Also, I feel that they're just trying to keep up with the big boys. The term 'In-House' sells better to someone new to the brand than saying Selita or ETA. Yes it's reliable, but not sexy enough. Personally I've gotten over the in-house hype because the watch's performance on a day to day basis is more important to me now than the knowledge of how it was made.
Looking at the Seagull ST1901. Though we broadly categorise it as a ‘Chinese movement’, it’s Seagull’s in house movement that they bought the rights to (and everything else to produce it) from a Swiss manufacturer. Do we call that Seagull’s in house movement because enough time has passed, or because they bought the rights and the whole kit and kaboodle to produce it? Is this the difference between them calling it in house and a Remo t calling theirs in house?
Good point about watch vloggers bring careful not to be too critical about certain brands/models. I've never considered that. Keep being independent, Adrian! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
It's obvious that the industry term of "in-house" watch movements is the wild wild west. It would be nice to see an accepted standard adopted by major manufactures to provide clarity and confidence for buyers.
I agree with you. The VC FiftySix uses a refinished Cartier 1904 MC movement, which I have in a 40mm Santos. It's a brilliant movement with modern features and is the most accurate of all my mechanical watches, keeping time within 1-2 seconds per week! It seems trite to say that the 1904 is a "true" inhouse movement when in a Cartier but not when in a Fiftysix, when both marks are owned by Richemont and supplied by a Richemont movement factory. What makes it in-house in a Cartier but not in a VC when the relationship to the movement factory is the same? I think movements should be judged on their features, performance, decoration and the amount of labour that went into making them. The geographical nature of their origin is irrelevant.
What a difficult aspect is the in-house movement aspect... I do not care a Sellita or ETA in a watch, I indeed love it. But the problem is if you pay for that 5000€ (Breitling, IWC, Tag Heuer...) If you want to sell watches for that price...it is a joke to have those movements, when you have them in 900€ watches. I would feel stolen. Sadly, as every brand is increasing sooo much their prices, the only possibility for them are "in house" movements. For me it is as follows: more expensive, do not like it, but at least more quality in theory (better performance and longer power reserve).
I get that in-house processes carry a lot of prestige but I'm not one to fault outsourcing. How many companies can manage designing, engineering, and manufacturing of timepieces at the highest level on their own? This practice has allowed some incredibly cool watches to exist at all.
Love your videos because you are not beholden to any company. I agree if you are going to BS to one so called in house movement you need to call out everyone. Keep up the great content.
Completely agree and support genuine, independent and authentic reviews. Adrian does this so well, although regarding Bremont I think he’s missed something…
GP Laureato copper dial. nailed it. now if they can only just remove that ugly minute track layer. print it directly onto the dial and its a whole new level.
The movement of the 5811 is ca half in hight to the BB58... of course you have some drawbacks in power reseve due to the hight and diameter of the main barrel.
I loved the idea behind the Bremont and the H1 movement and the reason for the name. But, I was unaware (until now with this video) about the fact the movement isn't technically "in-house". Now I don't really care if a movement is or isn't in-house. Like yourself as long as the movement is serviceable, reliable and performs well then that's all that matters. HOWEVER, I watched the live announcement and there was a lot of blowing their trumpet at how this movement was created in the UK in their own factories giving the impression that the movement was their own invention/creation. Well, that's the impression I got from the video, so to learn it wasn't all theirs does feel a little bit shady. Now of course other brands do the same thing, but they also don't try and do a whole online PR stunt (video and detective quiz) around a watch release and it's movement trying to say it's their own. They just simply label it "in-house" on their online spec sheet and leave it at that.
Please see my message to Adrian regarding Bremont. I agree with the genera point he’s making regarding treating all brands the same way, but I believe that he’s got it wrong regarding how Bremont revealed their acquisition of THE+…
Personally, I prefer a brand to be upfront about the movement. It is the major part of the watch and I like to know what I'm getting for my hard earned cash.
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Fantastic video Adrian!! Funnily enough I love the Bremont the most!!
The fact that the Laureato was actually released before the Nautilus makes me appreciate it even more.
I had a tour of the the Bremont Wing as an ordinary person (I just bought a ticket) just before the Longitude was launched. They were very open about the new movement, that it was a licenced design that they'd modified and were now manufacturing, that they'd got it wrong with their first "in house" movement. I'd say it's as in house as most movements in the industry outside Rolex, Seiko and Citizen. It's certainly more in house than the movement in my mum's 1970s Rolex was!
Absolutely spot on regarding brands buying movement suppliers mate, Rolex did it and no one blinks an eyelid.
Regarding the integrated bracelet trend /fashion /dullness, I'm still waiting for the new Ingenieur....
If they don't then they're mental and missing a lucrative trick
Rolex had an exclusive agreement with Aegler for many decades before they bought them, so much so that they even changed their name to Manufacture des Montres Rolex SA while still being owned by the Aegler family.
Learnt something here. Did know about Aegler. Thought the reference was Zenith, early Daytona.
Absolutely! I'm waiting for the IWC. I hope it'll be 38mm x 10mm . Ingenieur is an amazing watch. And there's so much potential here to bring it back better than before
@@paulhickmott6129 Zenith only came in in 1988, with the Cal. 4030, which was an El Primero slowed down to 28,000vph. Prior to that, the manual wind Daytonas were powered by Valjoux calibers.
Adrian, your clarity of argument about “in-house” movements is welcome.
Great to see you stepping on a few toes.
Long may your honesty continue.
Brilliant.
GP laureato is absolutely a great watch. I like its design. It has history. And it has true in-house movement (guess what, certain Royal Oak models are not using in-house movement and instead have Frederic Piguet’s movement lol).
I’m not the biggest fan of Bremont but I respect them. It’s not easy to be the new kid on the block. Yes, their prices put them above similar watches from other big names but it’s also true that they cannot lower their prices like the Swatch Group brand can as they have higher production costs. Hopefully we can expect more from them.
Bremont just are way too expensive that’s their biggest issue.
I’m enjoying seeing them develop. If they buy in a movement and brand it as their own, that’s what it is. A smaller company can’t develop everything. Look at cars. There’s a lot of branded cam covers over someone else’s engine. A few tweaks and if they’ve bought the rights, good luck to them.
Bremont is a brand I ignored for sometime due to the forum bias for Swiss watches from certain brands. I have now bought my first Bremont, an Airco Mach 2 on bracelet. It is a "gentleman explorer" type watch, at 40mm, 12.5mm thick, screw down crown, tip-trick body and chronometer ETA 2982 movement with upgraded balance wheel and spring to be anti-magnetic. It is not only one of the most gorgeous watches I have bought, it is also incredibly comfortable as a daily watch. What struck me about the finishing is that it is far superior to anything I have seen under £3000, and the tip-trick body is quite something. Bremont is one of those companies that goes for more clarity on the dial, a bit like Nomos and Sinn, at the expense of some of the glamour of the more exuberant brands. Everything is personal taste. I love the GP, I actually think it is more beautiful than the AP and the Nautilus, which I frankly don't like the portal design that much. The Bremont Supernova though is a super watch in hand though, slightly more subtle top down, although I like the white more than the black. From the side and back its quite special. I think it's a great alternative if you dont want to splash to the GP. In fact my integrated bracelet watches run something like: Maurice Le Croix Aikon, Christopher Ward 12 Chronometer, Bremont Supernova, GP, Chopard Alpine eagle. That's my list of beauty. Yours will be different ....
Oh man that new GP is awesome...think I finally want one. And I so appreciate screws on the bracelet rather than some of the other high horology sport watches having pins. As for the Bremont in-house movement drama, yeah, foul on that play for sure.
Separate comment about the Bremont movement part. I completely agree with you. Loads have done it too. Rolex bought their movement supplier in the early 2000s. It’s been happening forever.
I think the issue with the Bremont for me is the price. It’s nearly 1k more than the Zenith Skyline which has a lot more heritage for a watch trying to be a bit like a RO, it appears slightly better made and is cheaper.
One last thing. In an old Bremont vid you did, I’m sure the answer given about why Bremont watches were more expensive than maybe they should be given the movements inside them (eta type stuff) by Bremont themselves was that they needed the current buyers to pay for the R&D being poured into the new “in house” movements.
Where did all that money on R&D go? Was it wasted? Or was it never happening.
Sounds like the R&D was for manufacturing, not design. Though we obviously don’t know what changes (if any) Bremont have made to the movement other than putting their name on it
@@SifuJames77 this was years ago before they were trying to buy the horage movement. I think they must've spent a lot of money on something that never saw the light of day.
As always great content Adrian my only criticism is I wish you made more! Love you stuff dude. Agree with your point on in-house movements ,if your going to point your finger at one brand that’s bought a movement and not design it themself then it’s only fair to do the same with all brands regardless of how big a name they are in the industry.
Great video! I agree with you on more than one level: 1) We should hold all brands to the same standard. 2) I care about esthetics and performance; the labels don't mean much to me. My one caveat is that there are certain watches that I love because of movement design and finishing (in the indy space), but even there, I'm fine with the fact that, for example, Habring2 uses a 7750 as a base and then makes it their own.
Respect! Now we need more hands-on videos on GP! 😁👏👏👏
You have nailed it Adrian. There is so much bullshit, underhand tactics and snobbery in the watch world. So many other TH-camrs shamelessly talk about Rolex and have so called insider sources and intel...yet it is just for clicks - bullshit!
Your content continues to improve and you present it in what I call "a proper no nonsense" manner as opposed to former/current dealers who make out they do ...but then get defensive when called out. That is why you have 240k subscribers and others do not.
Love the video mate, You forgot about the Mario Cart Tag Heuer. That watch is damn epic!
Chisholm is the bomb and yes, maybe it’s just that I belong to a specific generation, but the Mario Cart Tag, especially the tourbillion with the little carts ticking around it, is epic. On an unrelated note, I’m looking for a loan for about $26k, preferably without any of those pesky, “you have to pay this back” stipulations.
Another thoughtful and topical discussion. Adrian, you are carving out an interesting niche and where are you Address controversial topics that others ignore. Very refreshing it and Frank
Great video. Brands buy cases too (sometimes from lower cost places), and get movements sourced from many sources, incl their group movement company/division. Cheers.
There is a case to be argued that watch TH-camrs go for the “low hanging fruit” at times. Very often making vids about the buzz word brands that work for the algorithm like Rolex and Patek. They partly feed the attention in the sales nowadays. It’s weird to see these same creators getting frustrated with the popular brands doing something unoriginal. Sorry not meant to be a jibe but it is a little ironic in general. You do some great vids and always have.
Patek have released some wonderful watches this year. The 5172g with the Salmon dial is a particular favourite of mine. They’ve done a lot of good stuff this year, not just the Nautilus they just announced. They did some other cool watches like the new World Timer with the current releases.
1, what you've described isn't a youtube thing, it's a media thing. Since day one of journalism there have been hot topics and not so hot topics. Naturally, the hot topics are important to cover for 2 reasons: one it's typically what the reader/viewers want to hear, hence them being hot. Secondly, if the publication, or creator wants to remain relevant, then it's an important thing to cover.
It's like any job and basic project/task management, some projects are more impactful than others. If you want to progress, you focus on the impactful projects.
2, you've described is the youtube equivalent to the "Swimmer's Body Illusion", swimmers don't have the long slim bodies because they swim, they swim because they are long and slim. Larger watch youtube's don't make content about Rolex and Patek to feed the algorithm, they have a large audience and get picked up by the algorithm because they make videos about Rolex and Patek.
Also, I spoke about the new 5172g when it was launched at W&W, it was my highlight.
@@BarkandJack I don’t agree with you on point two. YT is all about click through rate. Contentious titles with YT and the right brand names work. There is a skill to growing on YT and it’s not just about video quality. It’s not about natural swimming talent etc.
TH-camrs do tweak themselves and their own content to generate clicks, we all do it. You can clearly see it all over the place. TH-camrs and the videos they make is more akin to headlines on Tabloid papers than straight journalism. There is nothing wrong with this.
As for part one. I don’t agree either but that’s okay. It’s easier to make the “popular choice” contentious take on the latest releases video. Than it is to talk through the new releases in full and the merits of each. Patek didn’t just release the new 5811, you seem (almost) frustrated that this release is unoriginal etc but you don’t talk about their other releases? Is that the viewers fault, is that the fault of the people that buy the watches? Or are you playing to the audience to get views? It wasn’t just sheer journalism that was the motivation for this video. It made a good theme for an interesting video that people might like to watch and click on.
Watch YTers are not journalists solely. They are people offering an opinion and sometimes a hot take to share and we enjoy seeing it. There needs to be no substantiation or impartiality. You can just say what you think into a camera and press the upload button.
Plenty of the more journalistic places like Revolution lead with the thumb of the 5811 but talked about all the watches etc.
@@BarkandJack sorry I do find what you’re saying is interesting. So one more reply. It feels like point 1 and 2 of your reply seem actually the opposite of each other. Point 1 is that the media chooses what they produce for the public because what is “popular” is what the people want to see.
Where as part 2 says that swimmers don’t grow their long slim body as they swim, they are naturally that way. But you’ve just said the media CHOOSE their articles based on what is popular. They tailor what they produce for what people want to consume. This is where the swimmers analogy falls down. You choose the content you make, you already have the large following. You get to set the agenda now, but your still trying to pick a “popular topic” for your audience. In other words your audience is tailoring your content to some extent.
When you started on YT and began making videos you made what you kinda liked. But be honest with yourself, over the years you have learned to get a bit of a steer as to what video will do well and what won’t, how to maximise your views, and what topics to cover and will have tailored yourself a little towards that. It’s absolutely human nature. You have been tailored in the content you make by the years of experience you have gained being a YTer. Everyone that does YT does it to expand and grow.
In other word what we end up with is YTers critiquing brands for giving their customers what they want when it may well be unoriginal. While the YTer does the very same thing in delivering their viewers the same kind of “popular” but maybe not so rigorous or original content because that is what their audience clicks on…
M
@@TheRunningManZ Sorry I meant to add a bit to explain what the 1 and 2 meant.... your original comment highlights 2 separate things: 1, it isn't to youtube, but rather media re. low-hanging fruit. 2, swimmer body....
Ultimately I talk about what I like on my channel, if I find something interesting I talk about it. At the start i thought my channel grew quickly because people liked my content, I later learned it's because I like rolex and omega and therefore make content that the masses liked.
The way I see it is, I might have a list of 10-15 topics that I want to talk about, perhaps 5 of them I'm equally keen to talk about, however, I only make 1 video a week, so naturally, I usually choose the biggest hitting topic. For me this is just logical, and anything else should be classed as self-sabotage. When I worked in HR, I knew my CEO likes to see growth in sales, so naturally, I focused my time on developing the sales teams. If I were to spend time on developing the finance teams.
Just like on your channel, you see patterns and you work with them. It would be silly to see a title or format blow up and not work to those strengths. Imagine how successful if Shaq didn't want to play basketball and wanted to be a jockey instead. Play to your strengths.
TH-camrs 100% tweak / optimize their content to get a better reach, and better performance. Just like swimmers shaving their bodies and wearing goggles, you take the natural talent and enhance it. To do anything else is just silly. I hate having my face in the thumbnail, but if doing so factually and drastically increases the clickthrough rate, then it's a tiny price to pay for the result.
I don't feel your comment holds much of an argument beyond the frustration of people talking about the same thing. But that's how news works. All weather channels report the same thing, and when it's rainy, it's usually followed by a negative comment. There are natural trends within our community, and naturally us presenters who have common opinion tend to grow. I've done a whole video dedicated to the feedback loop between content creators and the community - th-cam.com/video/oC3F8nYQ0oA/w-d-xo.html.
@@BarkandJack I don’t see it your way and that is fine. Thanks for taking the time to write your reply.
In extremely simplistic terms Patek make the 5811 to sell more watches. You make this video to get more views while talking about the 5811 being for the “unoriginal.” There is irony in that.
I really like what they’ve done with the 5811. I believe that T Stern cares about the whole brand and they don’t want to be a “one watch wonder” like AP. You can see it in their catalogue of current watches. You can see it in their decision to move the most popular Nautlius into precious metal. This has been met with cynicism by some and I can see why. But if you look across the whole catalogue I see many compelling watches. I really like their none sports models, i think that is what they do best and it’s where their history is at it’s very best. I think Patek do want to make sure people value their whole catalogue, so they have moved more away from the ”steel sports” arena and left that for Rolex et al. So that they can protect their wider brand and not end up like AP. This is a very wise decision.
New Bremonts look lovely, I think what they've accomplished there is great, I'm not too worried about "how in house" the movement it seems to be a solid one and having been round the wing they're creating a new generation of watch makers in the UK, good luck to them
I am interested in what brands say and do. And as I have pointed out to Adrian in my comment above, he’s got the wrong end of the stick regarding Bremont…
Let the movement be theirs.
Love the Bremont line of watches,but can’t afford one.
Here in Australia,if a foreigner living here becomes successful,we adopt them & call them Aussie.
Same thing.
My wife’s British & now I’m calling here Aussie.
We’re all in the Commonwealth so Bremont are now Australian as well.
Love your work & reviews.
Paul.👍
Loving the fact that if a brand doesn’t like what you say, that’s THEIR problem. You’re not sponsored and you give YOUR opinion. If they don’t like that, that’s their problem, NOT ours. If you love a watch buy it! Don’t listen to others. My Omega Seamaster is scratched to shit, each scratch has a memory, hence love for that watch. My grandfather’s seamaster, same thing, I’d never want it to be polished to perfection, he bought it circa 1950-60 ish, it’s mine now, I love it!
Agree completely - we can all give our opinions - we are the Master’s of our own experiences ! but first we have to get our facts straight. Unfortunately, I think Adrian has made an error regarding Bremont. See my detailed comment to him.
Daytona was powered by a Zenith Movement for a long time .. and yet people don't give rolex a hard time about it. This new Bremont is nice, and I do love the movement, but the price tag is OUCH! .. and the lud to lug .. yeah, I agree. Not good at all. I have a Supermarine S2000 with a 52mm lug to lug length and that fits well .. but it's also a 45mm watch. So the Supernova is a bit of a head scratcher. Interested to see the next iteration and see how that fits.
Adrian - I really enjoy your videos; like you, I just love watches. Usually, you’re bang on, however, having watched and rewatched your video, specifically about Bremont and the movement inside the Supernova, I believe you have got the wrong end of the stick…
At 7:44 you say: “I would have loved Bremont to change the narrative, change the typical stance around in house and making things in house and just said: ‘guys, we found an awesome movement by this smal manufacturer in Switzerland, we love this movement so much that we’re actually buying the rights to it. We bought it, we’re going to get it manufactured in England, this is going to be the first in house Bremont movement.’ I’m pretty sure we would get behind it.”
Well Bremont DID say that. Almost exactly as you have laid it out, perhaps with the exception of calling the THE+ “in-house”. They were at pains to spell things out and to be transparent.
FACT: Bremont fully acquired the rights to the K1 calibre from THE+ (associated with Horage), re-engineered 80% of the movement’s weight, and now can claim that the movement will be 100% assembled at its own manufacture.
Bremont has acquired the rights to manufacture and re-engineer an original ébauche (base movement) named the K1 calibre from Swiss firm The+.
Bremont’s press release about this came out in October 2021 and they explained that they now owned the IP to the original K1 calibre from The+. Bremont explained that they had completed a transfer of expertise and practices from The+. And also that Bremont was now manufacturing, assembling, and certifying its new ENG300 movements in-house using the Bremont H1 Timing Standard, similar to the ISO3159:2009 Chronometer test.
Importantly, Bremont is not claiming to produce 100% of the components of the ENG300 in-house. However, it’s worth noting that movement parts, main-plates, balance bridges are manufactured and finished at Bremont’s Manufacturing & Technology Centre.
The movement is however fully assembled in-house, including jewel setting and regulation.
Bremont has achieved something admirable here and have taken a massive gamble that the watch community at large would be interested in obtaining a UK-manufactured watch and movement.
I believe you need to correct what you have said and issue Bremont with an apology.
Then do as you say and get behind them !
You must have missed all the press releases via other Watch Channels and Brremont etc that made no-such point about purchasing this "in house movement".
Saying something quietly 1 year ago then contradicting yourself via subsequent media releases is not being transparent.
Hi Adrian, I think the Hype is cooling down with the issues also rich people are facing with the downturn of the economy. The Laureato is nice and cool - but the GP logo looks so incredible "cheap". Like the Moritz Grossmann logo on their 20thousand Euro what-ever-watches. Tissot is really still the killer (PRX). Bremont sounds like a french cream cheese in German supermarkets. I recommend to sell it as Broment in German speaking countries, ha, ha ... Still would go for a normal Swatch until the inflated prices will cool down as well. Just wait another 6 months. Cheers from Germany - many thanks for your infotainement.
Absolutely agree with your statement regarding in-house movements, and all the hype around Omega and Richemont this days. Thats why I love Rolex, quite no politics, no statements, just a superb solid product...
Adrian you seem energised and fired up recently - absolutely loving it
Spot on Adrian. I think a lot of people out there does not know about what other 'bigger' brands been doing, hence the selective labelling. Need more content like this. Nevertheless, respect for Bremont with this move.
Thank you for the honesty and insight! Controversial opinion hacking doesn't matter as all watches will be off by atleast a second next day and as long as the power reserve will last how long I sleep I'm not fussed either. I would rather manufacturers spent the effort on material science making things thinner and lighter
'I was never really in the inner circle so I don’t really give a shit’. Loved it 😂
Great composition (black wall and white ceiling… the Fender, where you are in the frame etc) and lighting!
Completely agree with you. Love your style and non-bias reporting.
Forgot to say the GP is awesome. this is on my list.
Nice video! An interesting week in watch releases. The Chronomat GMT 40mm is a bit of a quiet release that will be a hit imo
Quality video, Adrian. Bravo for calling out the culture of bashing of brands like Bremont for perfectly legitimate movement acquisitions, when other more prestigious brands get carte blanche.
Absolutely spot on with the whole in house movement discussion. We should also add the “Swiss” conversation as well .. parts made elsewhere in the world and put together in Switzerland is enough to be called Swiss Made … brand loyalty turns a blind eye to that little spoiler as well.
Agree with all your comments
LOVE the Laureato with copper dial
I don’t knock Patek for the Nautilus. Beautiful watch in white gold. I’m just envious as I can’t afford it!
I don't have expensive luxury watches but am used to watches by Hamilton and Longines being basic ETA or Sellita and updating/finishing them to their own specs and using their own movement number (for example, the H10 and L888). As long as I can find a more detailed description at WatchBase or Caliber Corner for info to use when buying a watch, I'm ok with that. I was even able to find info on my 1960s Vulcain Meteor III that way (turned out to be at heart an ETA movement Vulcain modified).
This is exactly why I view your content regularly No BS Thanks
Good video Adrian. I have to agree on this whole in-house nonsense. While I do typically prefer these movements, it's not because of who makes them. I just prefer something more advanced, rather than off the shelf. The movement sharing by Tudor / Breitling is a good example of this. I want higher power reserves without sacrificing frequency. I want anti-magnetic properties. I'd prefer some nice finishing, etc. I've also had some really great experiences with ETA and Sellita movements as well, BUT (this is a big BUT) when I buy a watch with an ETA or Sellita, I better be charged fairly for it. Breitling has had some criminal recent releases where they charge a premium but put an off the shelf movement with a low power reserve in a new watch. I'm sorry, but if you are selling a diver for 6 thousand dollars with a 38 hour power reserve off the shelf movement (when you have access to Tudor/ Kennisi movements with 70 hour power reserve and silicon hairspring) then you lose my respect.
Anyway, I think another good example is the new IWC Mark XX. Would love to see you do a hands on review, with both the bracelet and some OEM straps. Sure, that movement isn't "in-house" so much as "in-group", but I don't think I'll care in the day to day when I'm enjoying that 120 hour PR.
It's not like Bremont are buying in movements, they're manufacturing these themselves in the UK
Exactly. I think that in itself deserves some level of respect. It’s a huge investment.
They’re making the bridges and main plate. Hardly manufacturing movements themselves
@@Cull_Obsidian according to Hodinkee they make the "base plate and the barrel, balance, automatic, and wheel bridges" in their factory in England
PP Price gouging? Nice watch but ...really!
Fair point about the Bremont movement tho’ - glass houses and all that!
Love the chat videos. Well spoken too. Call 'em like you see 'em.
GP Laureato is just spot on ….
Great content as always! I also bought a green nato strap from the store and am loving it! Keep the products and videos coming.
For me in house a good as it’s made in Britain. My friend had a problem with his Bremont Martin Baker, sent it back to them and was able to talk to the watchmaker who was repairing it at the time which I thought was really cool as when my Submariner went back to Rolex for a service I had to deal with Goldsmiths Sheffield as an intermediary.
I own a GP (silver dial) and I can say it's an excellent watch. Very undervalued imo.
Your comment about a cluster of watch releases recently that are not adventurous about their design - I am so pleased you said that. I was thinking it myself but that it was just me who noticed.
One last thing. What's going on with Christopher Ward? They seem to be drifting into more or less all plain three handed dive watches. Yes, there a couple of specialities and a few GMT's. But is now, basically, all plain everyday dive watches - yawn.
GP is iconic and always caught my attention. I like to see this brand finding a bigger market.
To me the label "in-house" is purposefully misleading, which makes me feel sad. It makes me feel even more sad given that I also don't care much whether this is theirs or someone else's movement, if it's a good one and priced accordingly.
I agree. It’s turned into a pointless marketing phrase, like “Swiss Made”.
Panerai cough cough 🥱
@@larsstougaard7097 So true.
@@larsstougaard7097 Panerai is worse than anyone as they took fantastically decorated ETA movements and replaced them with fugly “in house” movements that a) aren’t in house, b) are awfully decorated, and c) cost ridiculously money given a) and b).
Man, that GP. Didn't think I'd like that color combo but it's really changing my mind. Agree that we standardize how we label these movements, not for the sake of s***ing on companies but for consumer transparency. Because in the end is an ENG300 better than a high end ETA? Who know but shouldn't be assumed that it is amazing because it's "in house"
Nicely done and well thought out as usual. And your logic is faultless. I have been a bremont basher if I’m honest because I hate dishonesty. Which is a shame because that business aside I love their English heritage and I really like their watches. But bovine faeces aside I can’t pay more money for their super marine when the BB 58 is cheaper and better in all ways except perhaps the design ethic (I prefer the look of the bremont and that’s it).
Perhaps secondary market
It’s balls - I agree, call a spade a spade and have transparency on movements.
I just want quality - so don’t care if you bought the rights or not.
Keep up all the great content Adrian
And that GP is 🔥🔥
Adrian. 100% agree with your comments. As always a BS free zone at Bark & Jack. Love the podcast cast About effing time. Can't wait for new episodes. Keep it going.
Re: 5811, it's a shrewd business move to capture the margin...and yes, PP is a business!! In terms of movement, I think Bremont could be communicate better, but wholeheartedly agree that we need consistency...for most of watchmaking history it has been pretty standard practice (hence JLCs reputation). For example, VC is holy trinity and proud of its history as an etablisseur (watchmaker who buys in ebuches and parts and then elevates them through design, regulation and finishing).
Bravo Adrian , straight from the heart ! !
Agreed, judge/call them all out equally.
Keep telling it straight and bring on season 2
I reckon the issue for any maker like Bremont should be the quality of the movement - not whether it is "in-house". If, just hypothetically speaking, Bremont bought a good reliable chronometer grade JLC movement, then for me that would be massively preferable than if they came up with something "in-house" with a legion of reliability issues and which performed +/- 20 seconds a day! (And yeah, I know JLC are probably no longer supplying to anyone outside of the Richemont Group, but I'm just saying.) Obviously, when it comes to Patek, Lange, Journe, etc, one now kind of expects in-house calibers - because it's part of the ultra-exclusivity that we are paying for. But people should always look at the quality of the movement first and foremost, IMO.
Tell it straight ✅ BUT let’s get our facts right first !
See my comment to Adrian re Bremont
The first automatic chronograph was a collaboration between Heuer Breitling and Hamilton it was put in the Monaco as we all know and it is still today a revered piece. That’s how it was that’s how it’s done. Now if Tag Heuer modifies a seiko movement and calls it in house even after they outright buy the licensing to the movement they are chastised. in-house is a marketing ploy for your money not their Horological respect that went away in the 60’s. You want in-house it will cost you less than $200 buy a Seiko snk809 from a company totally vertically integrated. Respect the piece you have for what went into making it.
That GP Laureato is certainly the love child of the Nautilus and RO 😂
Fyi: Laureato is older than the Nautilus
Yes the comments are correct , but as I see it it's fine but it's a purchased patent and the Vacheron movement is based on the old JLC . All fine but those are the facts . A friend of mine bought the Tudor and I did say to him it's a Breitling movement . No worries to him , funny the AD told a slightly different story .
Having raised the issue of whether it's "in-house" or not, what is your assessment of Bremont's new movement?
Great video as always Adrian, really informative and the cinematics were on point 👌 I have a question, kind of out of topic, but what are your thoughts on the Le Rhöne Hedönia? It's following the trend of integrated bracelet watches, and it shares a reassemblence to the Patek Philippe Nautilus
Love your new style of content! Keep it up 💪🏼
Problem with Bremont is when they first said in house (not this time around ) they were caught lying and that set the crowd into a frenzy . So now they say in house I guess you have to define in house buying the rights to something and adding your own decorations to it could make it in house ish but your point is valid just tell the truth and be transparent problem is the whole industry is anything but transparent …
Huh ?
GREAT video. Loved your analysis here and keeping everything 💯
Adrian captured my thoughts on the PP5811 exactly. Patek increased the case by 1MM but did not increase the power reserve. Very disappointing, I expected a lot more from Patek.
Love the brutally honest stance on this video! You could have easily protected Bremont and blown smoke up them similar to an unoriginal influencer desperate for a quick back hander. More of this please Adrian... unleash hell!
That GP is wicked. A true Gerald Genta.
I think Patek will follow up the _5811/1G-001_ with a Stainless Steel version. But they want to decouple the link between the price of the old steel 5711 and the eventual new steel 5811. My theory is that Patek want to bump up the price of the steel edition heavily. So I think they are going to give it as long a break as they dare, probably two or three years and then release a steel replacement at a whole new price point. That's one of the reasons that the white gold 5811 has had it's price set so much higher; so as to leave room for the steel one. In the meantime, the new _5811_ can do the job of brining in money from those desperate enough to want a white metal _Nautilus._
In the meantime, you can expect other precious metal versions; platinum, and yellow and rose gold, to fill the gap.
First time watcher, very intrigued with your style, I can see why you have the following you do.
Thanks very much for giving it a go.
Great content…👌
My BB58 black is solid…no wonder they had to increase the retail
2:04 ….So it’s got an NH35A with a fancy rotor then🤣🤣
The Tissot prx is a better watch than three the of them combined... Also from a value point of view
I love Bremont's designs, especially the robust case structure, the dial layout etc. But I'm not a fan of this new release. I wish they could have done it in a way that continued their own design elements instead of borrowing obvious cues from other watches (AP in this case). Also, I feel that they're just trying to keep up with the big boys. The term 'In-House' sells better to someone new to the brand than saying Selita or ETA. Yes it's reliable, but not sexy enough. Personally I've gotten over the in-house hype because the watch's performance on a day to day basis is more important to me now than the knowledge of how it was made.
Bremont make amazing looking watch’s. At the end of the day that’s all that matters to me.
Exactly 👍🏻
Looking at the Seagull ST1901. Though we broadly categorise it as a ‘Chinese movement’, it’s Seagull’s in house movement that they bought the rights to (and everything else to produce it) from a Swiss manufacturer. Do we call that Seagull’s in house movement because enough time has passed, or because they bought the rights and the whole kit and kaboodle to produce it? Is this the difference between them calling it in house and a Remo t calling theirs in house?
To put it simply; some people hold different brands to different standards based on their own prejudices and snobbery.
Exactly.
Good point about watch vloggers bring careful not to be too critical about certain brands/models. I've never considered that. Keep being independent, Adrian! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
It's obvious that the industry term of "in-house" watch movements is the wild wild west. It would be nice to see an accepted standard adopted by major manufactures to provide clarity and confidence for buyers.
Wouldn’t the vacheron overseas be a better option vs the GP? Plus a piece that is up there with the top 3
GP is more affordable than VC overseas.
Want a genuinely in house movement? Grand Seiko..
I agree with you. The VC FiftySix uses a refinished Cartier 1904 MC movement, which I have in a 40mm Santos. It's a brilliant movement with modern features and is the most accurate of all my mechanical watches, keeping time within 1-2 seconds per week! It seems trite to say that the 1904 is a "true" inhouse movement when in a Cartier but not when in a Fiftysix, when both marks are owned by Richemont and supplied by a Richemont movement factory. What makes it in-house in a Cartier but not in a VC when the relationship to the movement factory is the same? I think movements should be judged on their features, performance, decoration and the amount of labour that went into making them. The geographical nature of their origin is irrelevant.
Another great review. How uninspiring is that new 5811 with its puny power reserve!
I don't really like the Bremont designs unfortunately but I think they're trying hard to bring watch manufacturing to the UK again and that's great.
What a difficult aspect is the in-house movement aspect...
I do not care a Sellita or ETA in a watch, I indeed love it. But the problem is if you pay for that 5000€ (Breitling, IWC, Tag Heuer...)
If you want to sell watches for that price...it is a joke to have those movements, when you have them in 900€ watches. I would feel stolen.
Sadly, as every brand is increasing sooo much their prices, the only possibility for them are "in house" movements. For me it is as follows: more expensive, do not like it, but at least more quality in theory (better performance and longer power reserve).
I really like the look of the Supernova. I need to get hands on with it. If they iterate it could be a sick watch in a couple of years
Really like what Bremont is doing !
Would love to see hands on with a Deepsea
I get that in-house processes carry a lot of prestige but I'm not one to fault outsourcing. How many companies can manage designing, engineering, and manufacturing of timepieces at the highest level on their own? This practice has allowed some incredibly cool watches to exist at all.
Do you still have your harrods black bay? Will you ever make a new SOTC video? Love your content, can't wait to see more.
Thank you for Great content on the video.
I am more interested in how the Bremont wears on the wrist with the new integrated bracelet.
Love your videos because you are not beholden to any company. I agree if you are going to BS to one so called in house movement you need to call out everyone. Keep up the great content.
Thanks a lot Joseph. 👍🏻
Completely agree and support genuine, independent and authentic reviews. Adrian does this so well, although regarding Bremont I think he’s missed something…
Well done Adrian. Very fair review.
I wonder if one day I'll see a Bremont that I like? Possibly, but probably not very soon.
GP Laureato copper dial. nailed it. now if they can only just remove that ugly minute track layer. print it directly onto the dial and its a whole new level.
Agreed! Hypocrisy by the watch community and brands that aren’t transparent turns me away.
Great video! Love that copper dial from Girard Perregaux
What do you think about zenith defy skyline?
The movement of the 5811 is ca half in hight to the BB58... of course you have some drawbacks in power reseve due to the hight and diameter of the main barrel.
New to the watch world and this is my source of information, you are unbaised and have so much knowledge, thanks for this, but I want longer videos
I loved the idea behind the Bremont and the H1 movement and the reason for the name. But, I was unaware (until now with this video) about the fact the movement isn't technically "in-house". Now I don't really care if a movement is or isn't in-house. Like yourself as long as the movement is serviceable, reliable and performs well then that's all that matters. HOWEVER, I watched the live announcement and there was a lot of blowing their trumpet at how this movement was created in the UK in their own factories giving the impression that the movement was their own invention/creation. Well, that's the impression I got from the video, so to learn it wasn't all theirs does feel a little bit shady.
Now of course other brands do the same thing, but they also don't try and do a whole online PR stunt (video and detective quiz) around a watch release and it's movement trying to say it's their own. They just simply label it "in-house" on their online spec sheet and leave it at that.
Please see my message to Adrian regarding Bremont. I agree with the genera point he’s making regarding treating all brands the same way, but I believe that he’s got it wrong regarding how Bremont revealed their acquisition of THE+…
Personally, I prefer a brand to be upfront about the movement. It is the major part of the watch and I like to know what I'm getting for my hard earned cash.