Most HATED Lawman: Pat Garrett
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ส.ค. 2023
- In July of 1881, Pat Garrett, along with deputies John W. Poe and Kip McKinney, make one final push into Fort Sumner in search of Billy the Kid. But what REALLY happened? Also discussed in this whether or not Pat Garrett was a coward. Was Billy the Kid armed when he met his end? How do we know for sure that Billy was indeed killed that night at Fort Sumner? Why wasn’t a photograph taken of the Kid’s body and why was he so quickly buried? This is part 3 in the series on Pat Garrett. Link to previous installments below. #history #wildwest #outlaw
Pat Garrett | Origin Story (part 1) - • Pat Garrett: The Origi...
Pat Garrett | Relentless Hunt for Billy the Kid (Part 2) - • Pat Garrett's Relentle...
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Pat Garrett: The Story of a Western Lawman by Leon Metz - www.amazon.com/dp/0806118385?...
To Hell on a Fast Horse by Mark Lee Gardner - www.amazon.com/dp/006136827X?...
Billy the Kid: A Short and Violent Life by Robert Utley - www.amazon.com/dp/0803295588?...
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Did I adequately get my point of view across when describing the lack of a photo and the issue surrounding Billy having his pistol at the time of his demise? Please feel free to drop any questions you have right here in the comments! Chime in and let me know what you think!
I never knew about the coroner's inquest you mentioned, thanks for teaching me a new fact, Sir.
Josh I was thinking if you want a quick answer you can do a search of the New Mexico records and see if you get anything on the coroner's jury verdict if there is a legal finding it will be there. this should no replace the research you are planning to do. I did one a few days ago and it came up no record found. Having said that, I am not the best at searches and I may have done it wrong.
I learnt something new from this.
That 50 people saw the dead Billy and that he wasn't an alien. In next weeks episode we'll probably find Patrick Wayne isn't Pat Garret too...mind blown
Wait....we don't know he WASN'T an alien
@@chillin101 They'd have noticed his sandals
This is one of my favorite channels. Full of cool information.
Thanks Douglas!!!!
I seriously doubt that Garrett was a "Coward", but for me, he was a Base Opportunist, with a serious Lack of Scruples(As In; He'd shoot his Grandma and take bets on the direction she'd Fall. His "Quest" for Billy was lackluster at best, and my take is that Fortune(Blind Luck) was in Garrett's Corner that night. He was in the right place at the right time and Billy(not being a Criminal Genius) walked blindly into a Dark Room, and got his Ass Blasted into eternity. Of course Garrett Blasted Away as soon as he was "Mostly, Kinda Sorta" sure it was Billy & being a Better than average Pistol Shot, even in the dark, he hit what he aimed at(So would Billy, given the chance to fire first). Even well into the 20th Century there are verified accounts of "Bad Guys & Gals" being Blasted at the first opportunity, sometimes from Ambush. The Texas Ranger (Hero?), and Verified Bad Ass, Frank Hamer and 3 other men, some still say, "Murdered" Bonnie & Clyde while "Hiding In The Bushes" on a Roadside. There is Dillinger, Pretty Boy Floyd, Ma Barker and her Boys. None of them were given much if any chance to surrender(History Tells Us), so why should Garrett have invited Billy to a duel on Main Street at High Noon? Easy Answer....Screw That! He shot him at the first opportunity, not in a prearranged Duel, but in a Dark Room, where his "Pucker Factor" on a 1-10 Scale was about 26.
I'm by No Means a Fan of Pat Garrett. He weren't the type of guy you'd want your Baby Sister to bring home to meet the family. He was a man of his times, only of a (slightly?) Less Admirable Variety.
Keep in mind that Billy was Not the Robin Hood of his day.He'd steal(Mostly Cows & Horses), and he'd also Kill without Hesitation, and when he did or didn't often depended on his Mood at the time(Especially after The Lincoln County War).
Bottom line....2 Deadly assholes went into a Dark Room, and one of them ended up Graveyard Dead.
The fact that Garrett stopped at a random location on the way to "Buy Some Goats", got out to Take A Leak and was Blasted By Somebody(Deacon Jim Miller??) who just happened to be at the same Random Location, has always been a Specious Account, and so is there being "No Reason" for Garrett being the intended victim. There is a lot of stuff about that whole story that Smells Of Moose Poop, and it's likely we'll never know the Real Story, but I'm Unalterably Convinced that Garrett met his grisly End, NOT because he'd been out "Building Churches" in the community. He got up to something Specious and Got Dead as a result......
1. Billy was very famous in the area. 2. True, photos were not common at that point in time, however it was common to bring the body back to the location of the crime unless the outlaw was killed by a bounty hunter then it could be taken to the nearest marshal or sheriff. 3. If Garrett was really concerned about collecting the reward why not bring the body back with him? 4. (this is the number 1 reason I don't think Garrett killed Billy) Garrett was a glory hound he wanted to be rich and famous and bringing Billy's body back would have all but guaranteed that. He could have made a small fortune from the dime novel publishers in New York alone even more if he had gone to the expense to have a photo of himself with Billy's body. 5. I could go on & on, but in the end there's no real proof one way or the the other which is what makes the whole thing interesting. It all boils down to believing the official narrative or not, I don't and if Garrett did kill Billy the he handled the death badly, which could be the fact.
First let me just say that I'm not trying to be argumentative. I really appreciate the comment and your opinion. Here's my two cents.
The purpose of a body would be used as proof of identity, correct? If he proved to the authorities that Billy was dead (with a verdict from a coroner's jury, the statements of both his deputies, and numerous eye witness accounts) why would he also need to deliver the body? And we do know, for a fact, that he did receive that $500 reward. As far as the authorities were concerned, there was sufficient proof without a body.
What are you basing the statement on about Pat being a glory hound? Not disputing it but thats something I've heard it a lot but haven't seen anything pointing out why. I'd love to see some sources on that.
Also, if Pat was so motivated by money and glory then why would he let the kid escape? There's absolutely no way that Billy wouldn't pop up a month later stealing Chisum cattle.
You say there is no proof either way but I think there is. A ton of people saw Billy's body. This was not a remote killing in the wilderness with the only witnesses being Garrett and his deputies.
For Billy to have gotten away would mean that well over a hundred people kept their mouth's shut. It would have also meant that Billy was a good boy afterwards and never did anything to bring notoriety or heat down on himself. I personally don't find that to be likely.
I'm 100% open to Pat not having killed the Kid in the exact way that he claimed, or for some other funny business to have taken place, but I do think the evidence is overwhelming that Garrett did indeed kill Billy.
You're right, though...it is really interesting either way!
Josh thanks for responding to my comment. I will be 69 next month and I have never been the type to see someone making their case for a belief they hold as argumentative. Well there is an exception, if they stop debating and start insulting the other person then that calls for a good ole Texas attitude adjustment LOL 🤠. I have spent the day thinking about how to respond to your response. My opinion was formed based on a scrapbook of original newspaper reports printed after Pat supposable killed Billy, magazine articles and books my grandfather had. He made the scrapbook from the original newspapers my great grandfather saved. He died when I was in the Army and my aunt through all of the things she didn't consider of value out, so I don't have access to that treasure trove of first hand information anymore. I said all that to say all this I believe you put a lot of thought and effort into your podcast that cupelled with the fact you are one hell of a story teller is why I listen to you every week (except when you're reading from a book). I want to show you the same respect you show us, so I am going to see if I can recrate the scrapbook on line before I start going in depth. Right now I will just make a few comments and send a more detailed case by direct email.
1. I'm 100% open to Pat having killed the Kid, however I don't find the evidence he did overwhelming.
2. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. In this case the straight line would be the body. It was not only common but expected that the marshal or sheriff would bring the outlaw or his body (wanted dead or alive) back to the location of the crime. Lincoln wasn't that far away.
3. The purpose of a verdict from a coroner's jury would be used as proof of identity and death. So why go to all that trouble when it wasn't the norm or expected for an outlaw wanted dead or alive. Toss the body over a saddle and head for Lincoln, they would have arrived the next day.
Josh there is much much more but I want names and dates before I get into the weeds.
Where did you get this stat: 50 people viewed the body? I don't remember what the newspaper reported at the time but I know it wasn't 50.
@@WildWestExtravaganza Now Josh you know that Garrett made 3 attempts to do the Cornor's report and today an original can't be found anywhere
Not only can they not be found, According to Alicia Romero, New Mexico secretary
of state in 1949, there “is no record in this office of any coroner’s verdict in the purported death of William H. Bonny [sic].” Wait there is more, In August 1951, Fourth Judicial District Attorney Jose E. Armijo wrote that a coroner’s report “is not now, and never has been, among the records in this office.” Hold on pard I'm not done yet, no coroner’s report was entered into the official records of San Miguel County.
Furthermore, Fort Sumner Justice Alejandro Segura never made an entry regarding this report in his own books. The killing of the outlaw Billy the Kid was never officially recorded in the state of New Mexico, "and the fact remains that there exists no legal proof of the death of Billy the Kid." No verdict from a coroner's jury, no written statements from deputies John W. Poe and Kip McKinney no written statements from any local witnesses and no body. I did a records search last night and came up empty someone with better search skills might have better luck. Governor Lionel Allen Sheldon refused to pay the reward based on Pat's lack proof. Pat's word would not be enough for a court in 2023 and it wasn't in Lincoln in1881.
@@rongreen4536 Ron you do know that you're mistaken, right? The coroner's jury verdict is very real - it exists. There are many records and interviews given by Fort Sumner residents who saw Billy's body - both while it lay in Pete Maxwell's room and afterwards before the burial. And what you said about the Governor refusing to pay Garrett the reward money is 100% false. Pat was awarded the $500 bounty for killing the Kid. Luckily Garrett didn't have to rely just on his word - he had a coroner's jury verdict, and a TON of eyewitnesses.
Another excellent adventure into the Wild West party on Josh. I will be waiting with baited breath for the next episode, got to feed the cliché monster! Thanx Josh
Thanks man!
He shot billy twice before and made a mistake, Billy seemed to sense traps. I think he got away. The mexican people that he loved so much also loved him and would protect him.
Yes, and Bigfoot helped him escape. They rode off on the Loch Ness Monster.
keep up the great work josh, it’s appreciated
Thank you, sir
Man, what I wouldn't give to own the Colt frontier six shooter ( Colt Single Action Army in 44-40) pat shot Billy with. Also, Josh i dont remember what revolver Billy had on him that night. I know he used a colt 1877 thunderer. I read that it was Supposably his favorite. But with the 1877 thunderer or a single action army. I have never found any real evidence prior to the mid 1890s of people carrying on a empty chamber for safety. Both guns have a real safety. It's the first click on the hammer. People definitely used them. most guns i see or own. that saftey would be worn with Decades of use. In the late 1890s, the army made a rule that during parades and inspection. the hammer would be on a empty chamber. at all other times though, they would carry 6. They didn't do this because they didnt trust the safety. The reason seems to be. there were lots of negligent discharges while they were putting the guns on safe. This is why. To load these guns, you would have to pull the hammer to the half notch to free the cylinder, allowing it to rotate. So after it's loaded. to put the revolver on safe. You would have to cock the hammer back fully. Then while holding the hammer. pull the trigger lowering the hammer all the way down. Then pull the hammer back to the first click. So if your finger slipped off the hammer while lowering it. You will have a Negligent discharge.
But other then this military rule it seems the whole 5vs6 thing didn't become a normal thing until well into the 1900s.
Good info! I'm not sure if it was the thunderer that Billy had at the time of his death or not, but I'll try to find out. Fun fact: the 44.40 that Garrett used once belonged to Billy Wilson. When Pat arrested him and Billy and the others at Stinking Springs he kept Wilson's Colt and Winchester
@@WildWestExtravaganza that is one crazy fact for sure.
@WildWestExtravaganza I have a thunderer and I can definitely see why billy liked it. I am Curious though to see if that was the gun he had on him When he died
I had read once that his favorite gun was the Colt Double Action Lighting. Although that is not the pistol Billy has on him in the tintype. But not sure what kind of pistol Billy had on him when he was killed often wondered that myself.
@mikearnold7982 that's what my Studying has taught me that it looksto come from the 1930sish Era. I have never had A negligent discharge with a single action army either. But for what I've read, apparently the military was having a lot of them In the early 1890s. Most people today say they did this because the safety is easy to break. I made a model of the SAA in CAD and used the Software to see how strong that safety would be. It took around 1000 foot pounds to start having problems. it was the trigger screw/pin that starts to bend and break. Thanks for your input. It's nice to hear from real Users of these firearms.
Josh , u missed a tiny detail. Maxwell was out riding one day with his friend about 10 yrs after the shooting and was asked about what happened that night , he said that billy instead of talking which he liked to do too much off should have just shot !. And that when he was shot he FELL FORWARDS towards Maxwell on the bed almost stabbing him as he fell .He fell onto the bed but when other people came into the room his body had already been moved onto the floor on his back.
Can't answer for Josh, but I can tell you that Jesus Silva explained that discrepancy about how the body was found by Garrett and his deputies. According to Silva and Deluvina Maxwell, Garrett was unsure if the Kid was dead or still armed and dangerous. None of the lawmen were willing to go in just yet to find out. Deluvina, the Kid's close friend, announced that she would go in and was accompanied by Silva. The body was lying face down. They rolled it over only to discover that it was, indeed, Billy. This would explain why Garrett found the Kid on his back by the time he went back in the room, but Maxwell believed he was face down.
Photography on the frontier was not that common, some of the larger towns might have had a studio, but they were few and far between
Say it loud for the people in the back
Live your videos brother keep up the awesome work!!
Appreciate it!!
I don’t think people realize how hard it was to get a picture back in those days, lol it’s not like today where everyone is walking around with a professional quality camera in their pockets, pat would’ve had to have paid a camera man to come along with him in order to get a photo and I bet getting a picture was the last thing on his mind in his situation
Buddy, you're preaching to the choir
If I was ole Pete Maxwell I would have immediately went & changed my pants, thats one hell of a way to be woke out of a dead sleep( no pune intended) wow!! T.C.B. 🤟
He may have!
At this moment I am parked in a car 3.7 miles away from Pat Garrett's grave at the Masonic Cemetery.
Very cool
there is an interview with Chino Silva, the grandson of Jesus De Silva, from 1997 where he says some interesting things about the night Billy was killed. Now he obviously was not present so his knowledge is second hand told to him by his grandad and others who knew Billy, and from some who might have even been their that night. it was interesting anyhow. maybe more pieces to the puzzle.
Vicente Silva was Jesus's brother and Chino's Great uncle. Frank Chino Silva talks about him in that interview.
Another fine addition to the quality entertainment provided here. Thanks Josh.
Glad you enjoyed it
To hell on a fast horse great book josh.
It really is
But Josh!! Lmao what about an episode on will Rogers. I know it's kinda on the edge of what u cover. But I think it would be a good time for the county to remember a men like him.
I think that could be a fun topic
You have been busy good job Josh it's a trip how fay this all has come
I'm trying
There is so much murky stuff at play with this business. Thank you for taking the time to wade through it. Also I'm picking up what you're putting down about the photo thing. I still think we haven't heard the truth, though. But I don't think it has to do with conspiracy stuff. I think it has more to do with humans being humans and how things never go quite how we planned. And also thanks so much for providing us a place to discuss and wonder out loud!
Knew an old man that had an Az. Ranger an a NM ranger , he was a close friend to Pete Maxwell he told me that on Pete Maxwells death bed that he told him that the Kid was not killed there that night it was one of Maxwells hands
Stories like this are always cool but they don't prove anything.
Mr. Bundle I known for years and never had anything that he'd told not be true
@@kennethbriody8396 fair enough
Wow amazing work brother thank you.
My pleasure
Superb 👍👍
Thank you
Great episode as always Josh. I felt like Pat had to kill Billy, i dont know this for a fact but after Charlie Bowdre was killed being mistaken for the Kid at Stinking Springs and then Billy escaping jail and killing 2 guards. I can imagine he was under alot of pressure by people who wanted Billy gone. Even if Billy wasnt armed Pat would have had no way of knowing that in a dark room. He had to kill him or be killed himself. I often wondered though. Did Billy die instantly or did he live for a few minutes before passing away? Was curious also if you have Killing Pat Garret Murder or Self Defense by David G Thomas and what you thought of it if you have?
I haven't read any books by David G. Thomas yet but I hear a lot of good things and I'll definitely be picking one up soon
When Pat killed Charlie he thought it was Billy---- He also killed Tom O. Follard ----When He killed Billy Barlow he thought it was Billy! You think he should have traded in his old glasses? LOL
Sir, It was not a dark night. There wasn't a cloud in the sky so the stars shown bright plus there was a 3/4 plus full moon. That's how Poe and McKinney saw the figure off in the distance. When this oerson walked into th room the bright light was to his back and in the face of Garrett. The kid knew garrett, but yet asked who's there. Billy Barlow did not know Pat so the question makes sense. Garrett could only see the outline of Billy because of the light so he shot and killed Barlow which was typical Pat Garrett shot first and ask questions later. He had done this twice before thinking Bodwre ank O. Follard--- He was a sick lying man
@@davidhall1840 Any proof of Billy Barlow's existence outside of the word of Brushy Bill? And is it true that Brushy claimed to have once survived a running gun battle with a thousand Mexican soldiers?
@@WildWestExtravaganza You sound a lot like MAG------ He insisted there ws no such person as billy barlow because he could not find him on any census in the area. Are you of the same opinion?
Just realised, I have not been receiving notifications of your videos dropping. You are one of my favourite podcasters, but life has been pretty hectic for me, the past couple of months
Ah, not sure why but I'm glad you're back!
@@WildWestExtravaganza So am I Josh. Catching up on what I have missed as we speak, & as usual liking & commenting to feed your algorithm
I'm not the biggest Garrett fan. This has been a great look at the man's life and I have to say after listening to his story so far I'm going to do more research on him. Maybe I'll find a vampire in there somewhere
Or aliens!
@@WildWestExtravaganza yes sir that would be awesome
Oh it's coming
@@WildWestExtravaganza😅😅
not sure what you changed Josh but way too many ad breaks on this upload brother. TY for your work.
Aliens ?? This might explain that little Roswell incident 60 some years later?
Is sending a 15 man swat team with automatic weapons and body armor after one guy cowardice? I think so! Give the outlaw a sporting chance!
Haha, nah I don't think so. That's called just being smart.
I liked how you set the scene of how many people were actually in attendance of the coroner’s jury and the funeral. Even if the coroner’s jury was stacked with Garrett supporters and a couple of folks who couldn’t read that should not have been a unique situation for the time. I really doubt they could have gotten away with a cover up with that many community members surrounding the situation.
Yeah, there were just too many people involved. Also there's the fact that if it was a cover up Billy just magically stopped stealing livestock
@@WildWestExtravaganza Josh Shame Shame------- You are well aware why the rustleing stopped { and it really didn't } Brushy moved on to a new life.
Garrett was hated in Fort Sumner and Billy was loved so I doubt he had a single supporter
Everyone always talks about Pat Garrett hunting Billy the Kid. Was there anyone else out there actively hunting Billy for the reward money?
There was the stock detectives from Texas and the Secret Service agent but they pretty much joined forces with Garrett. As far as anyone else goes, like other members of law enforcement or civilians that were operating separately from Garrett in 1881 and traveling to Fort Sumner looking for him? I'm sure there was but I don't know their names?
No way Pat Garrett was a coward. Pat Garrett knew Billy enough to know it was a matter of who shot first and knew Billy wouldn’t hesitate if he was threatened. Billy was a good kid but he was also terrifying practiced killer when he needed to be. Billy said “I am fighting for my life here” Garrett knew Billy would dust him at the slightest provocation. He also knew he wasn’t going to go down in history as someone who gave up on chasing the kid. Thats not a coward. Thats someone who understood the game he had entered into with the kid. Garrett regretted killing the kid but in the end Billy would never have allowed Garrett to take him alive. The government was against Billy, and Garrett not being a coward led them to that night. I think Billy didnt want to risk killing someone he cared about that night. I was Billy kindness that killed him. Thats what allowed Garrett to shoot first. Had Garrett not done what he had done and engaged Billy with a “throw up yur hands”. Garrett would have been buried next to young Tom not Billy. We know it. Billy knows it and Garrett knew it.
What color was Pat's shirt? Sounds like you were there, you should know.
At the height of his renown - Pat investigated the despicable Fountain murders....when his usual ambush technique failed -
Pat wanted to parley....
@@Face2theScr33n Before you make snide, uneducated comments, you might try reading the source material. Garrett's book lays out exactly what his approach was, and much of what wilmoney4619 posted is inline with that. There is nothing unbelievable or absurdly fantastic about it, rather all is quite logical and sensible. Garrett actually was there, so his account of it is important. Garrett's failure to consider that fashionistas like you would want to know his shirt color may have been an oversight, but other than that omission his tale is reasonable and credible.
@wilmoney4619 A very good post and I think an accurate assessment. The reason Garrett was chosen, put forth and elected as Sheriff was specifically because he had a known skill set and a strong knowledge of the Kid's personality, habits and that his comfort zone was Fort Sumner. That's the place they got to know each other, however deep or casual the relationship was. He knew all the same people in Sumner. Garrett was man enough to admit that fear was going to be a part of the effort, and he didn't shy away from it. Rather, he was smart enough to make use of informants and disinformation. He may have met the Kid for that final time by chance, but looking for him in Sumner was no accident. Just as his informants led him to the confrontation in Sumner where Folliard was killed, and to the stone house at Stinking Spring, it led Garrett to that showdown. While he doubted the Kid was in town that night, Poe being the one more sure, neither thought they would find him near Maxwell's house. It could just as easily have gone the other way, the Kid catching Garrett off his guard and hesitating. Just as Poe and McKinney assumed that it was a Maxwell family member or employee speaking to them in perfect Spanish, the Kid couldn't know if it was a friendly in the room on Pete's bed and so he hesitated. Cost him his life, no question.
Yay, another episode on WWE.
Thank you, Josh, great way to start my 3 days off.
I'm just glad you're here
Wow pistols back then could light up a room like Hollywood arc light!/ yah black powder.
Somebody like Billy would never go unarmed anywhere
Good morning!
Buenos dias
Roll them Rrrrr’s brother! Another fine episode……
There were wanted posters released in 1883 and 1885 for billy seems not everyone back then thought billy was dead !
Woah, crazy... either that or there were a bunch of other outlaws known as the kid
George Coe said that night was the first time Billy ever spoke BEFORE shooting.....
Huh?
Sorry. Let me clarify. He asked, "Quien es"? instead of shooting, which would be the first time to George Coe's knowledge that The Kid actually spoke BEFORE shooting. He said Billy was usually the first one to start shooting, as well as expending the most ammunition, of which he was always in short supply. @@WildWestExtravaganza
Yeah, it's crazy. Hickok sat with his back to a crowd, Wes Hardin too. Even ole Jesse James slipped up. We all make mistakes.
Josh, you left out a few important facts in this presentation, and a couple errors. It was not a dark night on July 14 1881. As a matter of fact it was a clear night with a bright 3/4 plus moon. That's how Poe and McKinney saw Billy from a distance. It was also a hot night and pete left the window open. So whenthe figure entered the room the light was at his back, so Garrett would have only seen an outline of the figure, but Billy would have been able to see Garrett since the light would have been in his face. Yet, Billy still asked who's there. Typical Garrett fired and killed Billy Barlow! You also forgot That poe said Pat you've shot the wrong man. McKinney also later in life said that Pat didn;t kill the kid. Pat Garrett' daughter also said her dad didn't kill Billy. Pete maxwell's sister also said pat didn't killthe KId. She also said the whole family, including Pete claimed the same. Regarding the gun, If it had been the Kid and if he had been armed Pat would have taken his gun, but he wasen't interested in Billy Barlow's gun. Regarding pictures, if he had killed the kid he would have secured a camera and taken the picture and there were cameras around town. Seeing all the pictures surrounding Pete Maxwell, his family, friends and the Fort I would bet he had a camera. This doesn't fit your agenda, but these are facts and anyone can check the moon phases, the Poe and McKinney comments, Pat's daughter, and Pet's sister. Don't mean to steal your thunder, but just want all the facts out there
Quick question: What's your source on Poe saying that Pat killed the wrong man?
@@WildWestExtravaganza Josh, There are several, but the one that comes to mind is Angel fire entitled Questions & Inconsistencies Regarding the Killing of Billy the Kid. If you haven't read this, I think you will enjoy it. Poe not only said you killed the wrong man, He actually wrote a Deputy Sheriff statement. I think that statement is in Lincoln somewhere, but I'm not a 100% on that location
@@davidhall1840 Oh, I know where it comes from I was just wondering if you did. The source of Poe saying "Pat, the Kid would not have come to this place; you have shot the wrong man" comes from John W. Poe himself, in the book he wrote titled "The Death of Billy the Kid. If you read the book, it's very clear that this statement was made in a state of shock and disbelief in the seconds following the shooting, before he even saw the body. Right after that statement, Poe writes that his considerable apprehension was alleviated. This is constantly taken completely out of context from a book in which Poe details the killing of Billy the Kid at the hands of Pat Garrett.
Thank you for your prompt reply and please don't worry about "stealing" my "thunder". I have no thunder to steal nor do I have an agenda. I'm very open to any actual evidence or documented sources but unfortunately all you've been able to provide are words completely taken out of context or stories that are purely anecdotal. You "bet" there was a camera at Fort Sumner? lol. Come on, David...you know that's not how history works, sir. There's a time and a place for the anecdotal, but when it flies in the face of so many eyewitness accounts it just seems a little pointless, no?
@@WildWestExtravaganza As I said it was printed in several places. I attempted to offer you an easy one to find. I am aware and have an original copy of Poe's book
@@davidhall1840 if you have an original copy of Poe's book then why take his words out of context? You should know full well that in that same book he describes Garrett killing the Kid
Hi Josh,
Love the content and the way you state the facts vs myth without forcing your opinion or trying to sell us books, merch etc.
couple quick comments, if Billy was armed with knife in one hand and gun in the other wouldnt it be difficult to be buckling your trousers as was reported by Poe? Also walking around at midnight in just socks doesnt seem practical. I think Billy was already somewhere in the house. Paulita’s room? And was ambushed by Garrett. Who was not a coward but a man that doesnt take chances. Any just my thoughts, thanks again.
One more thing, any chance you can do an episode or two on Poe and McKinney?
Yeah, would definitely be hard to adjust your pants without risking a close shave, for sure!
Pat Garret was a coward indeed. Billy never had a chance. But Garret got his when he was shot taking a piss.
Expand on that. Why was he a coward? Why do you think Billy never had a chance?
Sorry, the pistol was planted on Billy’s Body.
He was unarmed!
Pat didn't kill Billy, the stories we all know to be the facts of this history from the Brushy Bill stories, the Ash Upton stories and the stories told by locals are not all facts and all convoluted. I wrote a couple papers that were published on Billy, there is so much more. Brushy Bill was full of horse shat but this story did not end in Ft Sumner.
Happy for the new content, though more than one episode has been worth an extra listen. I've gotta get into that podcast archive. Excellent as always brother!
Go for it!
Pat Garrett had ridden with Billy, the Regulators, and other groups as a horse and cattle thief
Garrett was in Fort Summer during the Lincoln County War and had friends on both sides. He did not participate. Outside of stories that Pat sold stolen cattle, there’s zero evidence he was ever an outlaw, much less that he rode with the Kid.
Make a video about Frank Eaton. aka Pistol Pete. Oklahoma A & M used Frank "Pistol Pete" Eaton as it's mascot in 1958. Oklahoma A & M became Oklahoma State in 1957. The Cowboys was chosen as the school's nickname. The orange and black are due to Oklahoma A & M was the "Princeton of the Plains".
College football season is around the corner.
I def will
@@WildWestExtravaganza He lived to 97. Must mention Oklahoma A & M becoming Oklahoma State and adopting Pistol Pete as their Cowboy mascot.
Him and pat remained freinds even through the fountain murders
Better than coffee
I don't know about that
Interesting video. Good stuff. As to the varying testimony regarding weapons near Boney's corpse, this just lends credence to the majority. It's when every witness says the same thing that modern cops start getting suspicious.
Free Billy he ain't do nothin wrong
He dindu nuffin. He a good boy. He gonna be a doctor.
He's with Jesus now
@@WildWestExtravaganza He was a little fucker. Coulda gone to hell.
Loved it Josh still here brother can't afford all that but I'm loyal keep them coming don't forget about stonewall ok dude jfwy
It's all good!
Love ya, man. Keep 'em coming. Much appreciated.
More to come!
I live for these rolled R's!
My morning just got better, appreciate it Josh
Appreciate you
But don't it suck when you realize you have been born in the wrong centurie
Great episode Sir🤠🍻🥃
Many thanks
THE PEOPLE WILL RIOT IF WE DONT GET A JOHN WESLEY HARDIN OR CAPTAIN BOB LEE VIDEO SOON!!!!!!
I will pay you $10 for JWH video and $20 for Captain Bob Lee
Billy spoke, Pat shot. Qienne es? 😮
Your old buddy Pat. ❤
☕☕❤
Famous last words
@@WildWestExtravaganza 🤨❤❤
Billy did speak, but his last name was Barlow
Hi
I think poe was in white oaks for a pay off , my opinion
Making that monthly visit to the saloon sry
¿Quen Es? When in dought, shoot!
Lol to quote a great movie…but he was unarmed…..well…he should of armed himself 😂
Great movie
No one saw the body
Whose body?
Yes but you say Billy was shot killed by pat dead as hell but wot now
Huh?
Man. Still batting 1.000! You don’t miss brother! Thanks again! Can’t wait to hear how aliens are involved in this lol. Unless I heard that from a different series idk I listened to this earlier on in the day so I could be mixing this with another of your vids. Thanks again tho! Could listen to you all day
Thank you
I have to say coward
Lol omg is was bushy the kid
Mexican lore states that Pat shot Billy's tulpa, kind of like a clone "Quien es" was spoken in reference to himself, who is it, who am I? He served his purpose. The real Billy escaped on a space ship.
Sounds legit! Haha
I have always believed Billy was killed in one of the girls room or leaving one of their rooms. Billy just out wondering around without shoes and partially dressed just has never made any sense to me. How would have pat just walked into Pete maxwells bedroom, no one else finds that strange? I think Billy died that night but I don’t believe it happened the way Pat said it did
Cowboys and aliens.
Ohhh yeah
@@WildWestExtravaganza that was a good movie.
I need to watch it again
Buen trabajo Josh. THUMBSUP
Gracias amigo
SHOT DOWN PAT GARRETT, WHO ONCE WAS HIS FRIEND, THE YOUNG OUTLAWS LIFE, HAD NO COME TO AN END
Hero and man of the times, also Billy had a lot of friends so i can understand old pat wanting the kid six under asap and get the hell out of dodge, a hero definitely as i wouldn't go after the kid and not many would, great content learn something new every time and most importantly enjoyable.
Thanks Brendan
Hi