Tubalcain demonstrates knurling using a turret lathe type knurler adapted to a toolpost. I have over 1300 shop videos---watch them all. Search "tubalcain"
I opened Facebook tonight and the very first suggestion was this video. They must have known I was thinking about knurling. Well I wasn't but now I know a lot more than I did before, which is pretty easy since I knew nothing about it. Very good video Mr. Pete!
Thank you for recognizing the women who might be learning this craft. My daughter is a mechanical engineering student who loves tinkering on my lathe. Really helps to get any encouragement from the TH-cam crowd :)
I always appreciate your level of detail. It's not just being shown how to do something, but understanding why you are doing it that makes me remember the process. Thank you.
Thank you, knurling is something I struggle with, and I am going to try and find a turret knurling tool after seeing your video. I so appreciate that you make these videos and pass on your knowledge.
Hello Mr. Pete222,Excellent Video...That is one of the coolest knurling tools I have ever seen...I think I may just find one of those... I make a lot of small knobs for my motorcycle buddies for their accessory needs... One of the most popular is knobs with built in keys for the compartments on certain types of motorcycles...Thanks for the great video...Frank
Outstanding quality video and very interesting demonstration. Will have to get one of that type of "kernurler" , you proved the point very well with it. My knurled is rubbish compared to that. Thank you again for sharing you valuable kernowledge.
Shars makes a decent pinch-type knurling tool with different rollers...pretty good price too. I've used mine with good results. Wonderful video as always, thanks Mr. Pete.
That was interesting. No wonder I had a hard time when I was searching your videos to see how to do knurling. I would have bet money you had covered it at some point. That knurling tool was very interesting. I have not seen that type before. This gives me a lot of designs to consider for making a knurling tool. I have one of those Craftsman knurling tools but the swivel part is frozen up. I bought it in the 70's along with the lathe and I don't remember ever using it. Thanks for another fine video.
I like the knurling tool that you use in this video. I have one that came with my tool post its the same one shown at 6:15. The end results of the tool you used was very impressive. As always a top notch & informative video Thank you!
The knurling tool project that you talk about (wheel on top and bottom) can be found in Workshop Practice Series number 34, Lathework a complete course if you are interested. Great video Mr. Pete. Thanks again for taking the time. Joe
very cool video, we do a lot of knurling on the screw machines, it's very different and kind of easy ,it's done with a cam called in and out and is adjusted with a set screw on the tool holder, once again very interesting video.
I totally agree with you about the crude push type knurlers, they are the one tool that would put people off knurling for life, thinking for ever more that it is a black art! The knurler you show is a very good design, although for its cost has a very limited range of diameters that can be knurled, I always use my scissor type knurler which has a cam type pressure variation, this, unlike the awful push type, produces no side thrust on the workpiece, it is also self centering, (to a degree), and providing the revs are right, and copious oil flush is applied an excellent knurl every time.
I liked the video very much. I am not a machinist, but I do have a hobby shop in my basement. I have mixed success with knurling so far, and have identified the need to do some math with the knurling wheel pitch and that expected knurled part. This is indeed a mathematical function that has to be taken into account. Common sense tells you that if the part circumference is not a direct factor of the knurling tool, you will not get a proper pattern. Correct me if I am wrong...
I worked in a automotive machine shop in the 1950's and we had a piston knurling machine. The machine was made by Perfect Circle piston rings. When you knurled a piston the knurl pattern included the PC logo. Knurling was quite popular then and all sorts of benefits were claimed. One of them was a race car had knurled pistons and lost all the coolant and still finished the race.
knurling a piston,no one has done that for 50 years,i just watched your whats in your tool box,started to thin the herd,like you I have managed to outlive many of my pals and bought a lot of things so when spring comes I will have a big yard sale on sell off my extras ,just keep 2 or 3 of the same things not a dozen. I am finding things a forgot I had. maybe that happens in you get in your 70,sgood health be with you
Thank you! I "recently" (within a year) found an old ball-peen (machinist size?) hammer that turned out to be one my father made in the 50's in shop class. It was in amazing shape. I've marveled at it as I've cleaned it up and done my best to provide it with usability as well as longevity by doing some very light (carburizing flame) case hardening of the head, cleaning the threading up and trying to concoct an anti corrosion coating that doesn't ruin it's aesthetics. I'd just started wondered how he did the knurling on the handle how precise so many circumferences or their ratios must match in order to avoid missed knurls.
I was looking into this for knurling a barbell im going to make. I am in very far over my head. This is a fantastic video though! I started knotting nothing about metalwork and now I know 1. Slightly less than nothing and 2. I will not be knurling my bar
Thanks Mr. Pete, Your explanations and videos are always well produced and I've learned quite a bit from your presentations. My last shop class was as a sophomore in high school 40 some years ago. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks? Kindest Regards!
A couple years ago at work we had a couple new parts to knurl, the (CNC) programmer had never done it before, neither had any of us. The part had a jeweled looking finish to it that looked fantastic, but, wasn't correct by standards. For days we tried different feed rates and speeds until we finally saw the problem. He had programmed the spindle to reverse when after initial feed was done to back knurl tool back off parts.
"I recommend you sell them on ebay to some unsuspecting sucker" LOL I agree about the superiority of the scissor type knurling tools. I was having issues with the lateral pressure from the lousy type knurling tool making my tool post rotate regardless of how tight I made the nut on top of the tool post that holds it down (I went to the point of stripping the threads of the vertical shaft that goes through the tool post). Then I bought a scissor type knurling tool and never looked back.
I've never actually seen a scissor or otherwise opposed knurling tool actually used before, it seems the bump style is more popular on youtube because they work on any size work (including working past a larger diameter) with no adjustment and are relatively cheap and can even be easily made. This type does seem much faster and requires a lot less out of your machine, though I do still see the draw of the other type. I'm also guessing, based on how often I see it, that it's ok to use a brush for an open wheel bump style knurler since there's a lot less for the bristles to get caught in, especially if it's on the exit side.
1. Interesting type of knurler. In the device you showed, what are the minimum and maximum diameters possible? Is there any magic to setting up the knurler for a particular diameter of work?2. I had to go look up exactly what a turret lathe is. Perhaps a tour of the different types of lathes would be a topic for some day. I'd be particularly interested in the relative advantages of each type.3. Must this type of knurling always start at the end of the work piece? 4. Is the turret knurler fundamentally different than a scissors-type? Aside from the strength of the design, they seem use the same principle.Thanks!!Dave Kellogg
Another question: suppose one were to make a tool holder that can hold the knurler vertically. That is to say a tool holder that bolts down to a slotted cross slide. The holder is such that the knurler rolls point upward as opposed to the conventional toward the spindle. (assuming you could adjust/position on-center height and centered along X axis). Would the knurler still work? This would allow those like me who only have say a South Bend 9A (I only have an AXA tool post), to do longer knurling operations, or larger diameter knurls with the bigger B&S knurlers (like a 1" or so). I don't see yet any reason it wont work. unless the rollers cannot be positioned sufficiently for a vertical placement of the tool. But if it would work, I can envision it coming in pretty handy!
Could you please show us how to make the same on non round surfaces? I have seen that on gun levers and even some flat surfaces, I wonder how they done that
Seems like the variable use of this tool is small and that purchasing one for every size might be costly over time. Also, if this is variable in the diameter usable, then perhaps the knurling might not be perfect if you change size a little bit (I have no idea how much would be noticeable). Like you said, I plan to buy a scissor type (one tool fits most sized I would want to do). Perhaps in the future, you might do a video on the scissor type of tool. This video leaves me very confident that if I did have this type of knurling tool, then perhaps I could do it easily and repeatedly. Thank you yet again. OH, and yes, I will sell the one I was a sucker and bought!!. ;)
Some videos, even some metal cutters I know insist you have to reverse spndle direction in order to feed the knurl off the work. You don't need to. It's just a knirl, not a thread.
Kids might say "k-nurling" but so would your great, great, great grandpa. Words like that with mute letters are written as they were spoken at the time someone first wrote them.
Pete, I looked on Ebay and Amazon under every name of a kneeling tool that I could think of. I surely would like to have one like you shoed in the video. If you can tell me exactly what you use to identify it I would appreciate it. Thanks, I really get an education watching your videos and I love the detail you put into it.
Hi Lyle, if that knurling tool had had flats at 90 to each other, that would guarantee that the tool was parallel to the bed whichever way one chose to use it.
You're so right about the bump type knurling tool, poor suckers... :( This is why we designed one from the ground up, some are going to Keith Fenners's giveaway tool boxes... ;)
Very cool. I need one of these things. It would seem that the diameter of the stock needs to be such that when the ridge of the knurling tool comes around it ends up in the same place. If so, then the diameter of stock/diameter of knurl wheel/ridges in knurl wheel = integer. Is my understanding correct?
Hi Mr pete i bought two sizes of pinch type knurlers one large one small chinese made for under $100.00 and they work good now if you need to change the roller i think you need to knock out a straight pin at this point you might have to make a new pin and thread it upgrade . with the two tools i can knurl up to 4 -1/2 in . copy of the Eagle rock tool made in usa. bought on EBay made in India .
Mrpete I once had a 4x4 truck that had a bad front drive shaft splines stripped out in slip coupling I was told the splines were knurled on I got a man at a machine shop to make me new drive shaft with course splines.
Thanks great info and demonstration provided I’m in Melbourne Australia and have come across one however Need to replacement knurling wheels any info on where I can get Them would be of great help
Hey, Lyle. That is a cool turrett knurler.Do you know what brand that old micrometer is? I have an older one which looks similar, but didn't see a manufacturer on it.
I always wondered how the knurling lines up once the work has done a full rotation? I would think murphy's law would take effect and you would see a sort of a doubling up of the knurls. Are the rollers matched exactly to the diameter you are knurling?
If I remember correctly the diamond knurling tools will mostly self align as it is worked in. For other tools starting with a piece circumference that's a multiple of the knurl spacing works best. This is from memory from quite a while ago so someone else can give you a better answer.
+Atimatik Army the chamfer, and the precise setting of the distance between rollers in a pinch type knurler will also align the knurling. It's with the hand knurling that things get tricky.
So with a pinch type knurler tool, they must be only able to do very specific fixed diameters in order for the knurls to line up exactly on themselves as the work is rotated, correct?
Atimatik Army the knurl pitch diameters are limited, but since undersized stock will just not form complete knurls and oversized stock will have the excess cut away precision diameter stock isn't needed. Depending on the application having incomplete knurls can be an advantage (it doesn't come out looking as clean but having flat tops is much nicer on the fingers than points)
WOOPS, I errored in my previous comment. I opened "You Tube" not Facebook. Hmm, perhaps it was the 100 mile drive in freezing rain and fog that messed up my mind, or perhaps I am just old, grin.... Sorry for the confusion Mr. Pete old age has a way of fooling with me. Regardless it was a very informative video and I am happy You Tube suggested it.
Once again ...Mr. Pete for President! Seems to me this beats even the scissor type approach ...unless maybe there is a need for larger knurls then the shank on this tool?
On 11/24/15 at this URL, I learned something. Please add a cut to the next video showing return of Mrs Tubalcain's brush to the medicine cabinet. We're all wondering if you leave it in the parts washer. Manors.
Thanks Mr.Pete.All we had in high school were the tool holder type that you dislike. It would usually take me more than one try to get it right.If you straight knurl the inside of a bore,could you get it to spline to a straight knurl on a shaft like a slip yoke on a drive shaft?
+Mr Frog I have tried that, here's what I learned. 1. IF you get the same number of splines on both parts and 2. IF you get the correct pitch diameter on both parts and 4. IF you get the same side angle on both parts and 5. IF you get the same twist on both parts (straight knurling is seldom truly straight) then you will get a marginal spline that will have little strength or lifespan. Because of changes in pitch a few teeth will bear the load and wear, quickly becoming sloppy. Splines and gears are sometimes roll forged but are usually finished by milling, grinding, broaching, etc. to ensure size and straightness. My advice is if you need a sliding shaft joint then use a captive key and keyway or a square shaft and hole or an Allen wrench and hex hole. Square and hex holes can be found in sockets and socket-head screws. If you need a free sliding shaft then use a key or a square as hex can wedge under load like the setscrew that sticks to the wrench. Mike (o\!/o)
There is a lot going on here and you do such a good job that it might appear to be easy (though you clearly stated that at the start that it was not at all easy) Do you think it would be possible to do a video on what mistakes can be made doing knurls? Or, rather, how to avoid them.
I looked up how much the 1942, $23.50 knurler would cost today, according to an internet inflation checker $23.50 in 1942 is equivalent to $351.21 in 2017 (that's a rate of inflation of 1394.5%).
This is long after when this video was posted, but 2 questions, if anyone who sees this can answer them: 1) I’m confused by the fact that you don’t seem to have to calculate the spacing of the knurling dies (that is, the final part diameter between them) to match the pitch of the knurls. Isn’t this kind of like gear teeth, where the number and pitch of the teeth need to match the circumference? I’d expect to see some sort of defects, where the pitch and circumference didn’t match. 2) With harder materials, a wimpier lathe, or a thin part that can’t be supported as well as you’d like, do you ever need to take multiple lighter passes, rather than a single full-depth one? Would there be a reason why you *wouldn’t* want to do that? (I guess some metals could work-harden, so multiple passes would be self-defeating…) Thanks in advance for any insight people might have on these! (And many, many, many thanks to Mr Pete for all the knowledge, experience and information he’s shared so generously here!)
+mrpete222 Or even as planetary gears in the spindle pulley as on some small Atlas lathes. I always thought of them as backing off the speed. Mike (o\!/o)
Years ago at my job at Ryobi Machining Plant, we were playing around/experimenting with a 5" mill head. We were trying different inserts (diamond,carbide & exotics) to get different surface finishes on a transmission (AXOD) panface. We also were experimenting with the feed and speed too, many different combos. Anyway, one of our trials resulted in a perfectly knurled panface! (One of the inserts chipped on us creating the knurling) Was pretty neat at the time, thinking about it now, seems boring. lol Have a Great Thanksgiving!
mrpete222 This is an old video so you will probably not see my comment. I always told the new guys in the shop the definition of a Knurled Surface was to discourage the dummys from using Vise Grips to loosen and tighten a part.
I have one of those rockwin knurl masters.... God forbid you need new rollers for it, I haven't been able to find them other than for the exorbidant price eagle rock wants for them
7:11 You just had a user send you a left handed thread tap the proper size & "lament the loss of your knurler) Aloris AT-19 so put the two together and you can now make one. New video idea!
Interestingly after checkering gunstocks for the last 6 yrs my eye for formed diamonds has become sharp to the diamonds shape...and I can tell that the aluminum diamonds are not as sharp as the metal...
Mr Pete: try as I might, I have never been able to see HOW a knurling tool does NOT overlap unevenly; as it goes past the 360 degree point of a turn; UNLESS it would be sized PERFECTLY to EACH piece it is knurling. Where is my thinking flawed? Could you please explain that in detail if you will? As always your videos are exemplary. May Jesus continue to richly bless you and yours always dear person.
It's kinda like having three gears mesh together. no matter the size of the middle gear, if the two outer gear are spinning as the same rate and have the same size with the same teeth pattern, they would still mesh and not grind or whatever.
You are onto something.....Remember, in the video, Mr. Pete told you the tool was for 3/8 inch...so yes, those knurlers would work, AS LONG AS YOU TURNED 3/8 inch stock.....So yes, you are right....You're thinking isn't flawed...I learned this on my own... You can't just knurl random sized stock and get a perfect diamond knurl.....You have to do some calculations.....But, if you're knurling other sizes, you have to match the diameter/circumference of the part to the knurling tool.... Excellent point.
can you tell me the saying you used when you were discussing the student stealing all the scribes.. it start out "boys who leave their name on places...….) I cant remember what episode it was in....
I really enjoy the detail you provide in your videos. If you ever feel compelled to cover the subject of how ”rope" knurls are made, that would be very interesting to me. The topic has been covered by Clickspring here on TH-cam, but your take on the subject would be a valuable addition. This is something I am trying to learn to do in my own shop, but I’m not having much success with it.
@@mrpete222 Rope knurls are used on old ornamental machine screws. I repair and restore old telegraph equipment and they are used extensively in these devices. The knurl resembles the side of a rope wrapped around the screw cap. It is very pretty and I am trying to learn how to make the knurling wheels to duplicate this effect. This may not be something you wish to tackle, but I'd love to see your take on it if you do. Thanks for the reply.
This is long after when this video was posted, but 2 questions, if anyone who sees this can answer them: 1) I’m confused by the fact that you don’t seem to have to calculate the spacing of the knurling dies (that is, the final part diameter between them) to match the pitch of the knurls. Isn’t this kind of like gear teeth, where the number and pitch of the teeth need to match the circumference? I’d expect to see some sort of defects, where the pitch and circumference didn’t match. 2) With harder materials, a wimpier lathe, or a thin part that can’t be supported as well as you’d like, do you ever need to take multiple lighter passes, rather than a single full-depth one? Would there be a reason why you *wouldn’t* want to do that? (I guess some metals could work-harden, so multiple passes would be self-defeating…) Thanks in advance for any insight people might have on these! (And many, many, many thanks to Mr Pete for all the knowledge, experience and information he’s shared so generously here!)
I opened Facebook tonight and the very first suggestion was this video. They must have known I was thinking about knurling. Well I wasn't but now I know a lot more than I did before, which is pretty easy since I knew nothing about it. Very good video Mr. Pete!
Thank you, I did not know any of my videos got recommended on Facebook? I don’t even use Facebook.
Thank you for recognizing the women who might be learning this craft. My daughter is a mechanical engineering student who loves tinkering on my lathe. Really helps to get any encouragement from the TH-cam crowd :)
+John MacDougall Yes-there may not be many of them, but they are very good.
I always appreciate your level of detail. It's not just being shown how to do something, but understanding why you are doing it that makes me remember the process. Thank you.
+yourbeekeeper Thanks for watching
+mrpete222 +1 on that. Also reminds me very much of standing next to my dad at the south bend. That is VERY meaningful
+phooesnax Great memories
An old driveshaft yoke would be a perfect start for making a copy of the turret style. Thanks for the video. Very enjoyable as always.
Thank you for a very informative video. Please keep the level of detail. It helps greatly with young machinist just starting out.
You are a real Master. There are no advertisements ! Thank you !
Thanks
Thank you, knurling is something I struggle with, and I am going to try and find a turret knurling tool after seeing your video. I so appreciate that you make these videos and pass on your knowledge.
+Great North Woods Hillbilly Thanks for watching-yes, get one
I always come away a little smarter after one of your videos. Thanks again.
+RP Mechanics Thanks for watching
Good old Tubalcain. I've been away for a while but it's good to see you still making great videos and even responding to some comments.
+wyattoneable Welcome back--keep watching
Excellent info and presentation! Thanks as always Mr. Pete!
+ShysterLawyer My pleasure-Thanks for watching
.Dear Mr. Pete, I too appreciate your level of detail. For us beginners it's very informative and interesting. Please continue.
+Saar Tal Thanks for watching
Hello Mr. Pete222,Excellent Video...That is one of the coolest knurling tools I have ever seen...I think I may just find one of those... I make a lot of small knobs for my motorcycle buddies for their accessory needs... One of the most popular is knobs with built in keys for the compartments on certain types of motorcycles...Thanks for the great video...Frank
Awesome detail, Thanks for sharing. I Truly look forward to your video's. Cheers.
+Ashley Ward (Ash) Thanks for watching
Outstanding quality video and very interesting demonstration. Will have to get one of that type of "kernurler" , you proved the point very well with it.
My knurled is rubbish compared to that.
Thank you again for sharing you valuable kernowledge.
+Nodrog Awson Thanks for watching
Many Thanks for your time and GREAT information!!!
+DeArmondTool Thanks for watching
Shars makes a decent pinch-type knurling tool with different rollers...pretty good price too. I've used mine with good results. Wonderful video as always, thanks Mr. Pete.
+dale pratt I'd like one of those
That was interesting. No wonder I had a hard time when I was searching your videos to see how to do knurling. I would have bet money you had covered it at some point. That knurling tool was very interesting. I have not seen that type before. This gives me a lot of designs to consider for making a knurling tool. I have one of those Craftsman knurling tools but the swivel part is frozen up. I bought it in the 70's along with the lathe and I don't remember ever using it. Thanks for another fine video.
+cerberus Thanks for watching
I learned and enjoyed , Thanks Mr Pete !!
+ShawnMrFixit Lee Thanks for watching
really enjoyed that , guess I'll watch it again !
+mrbakerskatz Thanks for watching--again
I like the knurling tool that you use in this video. I have one that came with my tool post its the same one shown at 6:15. The end results of the tool you used was very impressive. As always a top notch & informative video Thank you!
+Rosario W Yes, its quite a knurler
As always a good video .Thank you !
+Gene Fultz Thanks for watching
Great video as always!
+Jeff Moss Thanks for watching
The knurling tool project that you talk about (wheel on top and bottom) can be found in Workshop Practice Series number 34, Lathework a complete course if you are interested. Great video Mr. Pete. Thanks again for taking the time.
Joe
+My Heap Thanks for watching
very cool video, we do a lot of knurling on the screw machines, it's very different and kind of easy ,it's done with a cam called in and out and is adjusted with a set screw on the tool holder, once again very interesting video.
+bill devlin Never saw one of those-Thanks for watching
I totally agree with you about the crude push type knurlers, they are the one tool that would put people off knurling for life, thinking for ever more that it is a black art! The knurler you show is a very good design, although for its cost has a very limited range of diameters that can be knurled, I always use my scissor type knurler which has a cam type pressure variation, this, unlike the awful push type, produces no side thrust on the workpiece, it is also self centering, (to a degree), and providing the revs are right, and copious oil flush is applied an excellent knurl every time.
+Englishman French Thanks for watching---yes on the push type, no like
thankyou sir. most interesting and informative as always..
+Kevin Willis Thanks for watching
I liked the video very much. I am not a machinist, but I do have a hobby shop in my basement. I have mixed success with knurling so far, and have identified the need to do some math with the knurling wheel pitch and that expected knurled part. This is indeed a mathematical function that has to be taken into account. Common sense tells you that if the part circumference is not a direct factor of the knurling tool, you will not get a proper pattern. Correct me if I am wrong...
Great Video!
very nice and informative ! thanks for sharing.
+sam yeates Thanks for watching
Great instructions ! I see where a steady rest will be required with the other types for long knurling of shafts on lathes.
Yes
You continue to amaze, i hate that all these schools are doing away with shop, none of these kids know how to do anything anymore..
+Jeremy Vance Thanks you very much--and that is so true
Again thanks for the video. it is appreciated
+kerrywil1Thanks for watching
Great use of the drill bit to center it.
+John Strange Thanks for watching
I worked in a automotive machine shop in the 1950's and we had a piston knurling machine. The machine was made by Perfect Circle piston rings. When you knurled a piston the knurl pattern included the PC logo. Knurling was quite popular then and all sorts of benefits were claimed. One of them was a race car had knurled pistons and lost all the coolant and still finished the race.
+marv w I remember those too
knurling a piston,no one has done that for 50 years,i just watched your whats in your tool box,started to thin the herd,like you I have managed to outlive many of my pals and bought a lot of things so when spring comes I will have a big yard sale on sell off my extras ,just keep 2 or 3 of the same things not a dozen. I am finding things a forgot I had. maybe that happens in you get in your 70,sgood health be with you
+Ron Wrob Thanks for watching---we have too much junk
Thank you!
I "recently" (within a year) found an old ball-peen (machinist size?) hammer that turned out to be one my father made in the 50's in shop class. It was in amazing shape. I've marveled at it as I've cleaned it up and done my best to provide it with usability as well as longevity by doing some very light (carburizing flame) case hardening of the head, cleaning the threading up and trying to concoct an anti corrosion coating that doesn't ruin it's aesthetics.
I'd just started wondered how he did the knurling on the handle how precise so many circumferences or their ratios must match in order to avoid missed knurls.
+MrJgstoner Thnks for watching--be sure & watch my recent on knurling.
Will do!
I was looking into this for knurling a barbell im going to make. I am in very far over my head. This is a fantastic video though! I started knotting nothing about metalwork and now I know 1. Slightly less than nothing and 2. I will not be knurling my bar
😄😄👍👍
Thankyou I learned something!!
+Tf9500 Thanks for watching
Nice explnation always wanted to learn how to do that.correctly.
+Charles Dyer Thanks for watching
Thanks Mr. Pete, Your explanations and videos are always well produced and I've learned quite a bit from your presentations.
My last shop class was as a sophomore in high school 40 some years ago. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks?
Kindest Regards!
+Robert Bergmueller Thanks for watching-I appreciate the kind words
Thanks, I needed this as I'm ready to purchase one but was unsure how it worked.
Thanks, I'm glad you like the video
very nice
A couple years ago at work we had a couple new parts to knurl, the (CNC) programmer had never done it before, neither had any of us. The part had a jeweled looking finish to it that looked fantastic, but, wasn't correct by standards. For days we tried different feed rates and speeds until we finally saw the problem. He had programmed the spindle to reverse when after initial feed was done to back knurl tool back off parts.
Glad you found the solution
"I recommend you sell them on ebay to some unsuspecting sucker" LOL
I agree about the superiority of the scissor type knurling tools. I was having issues with the lateral pressure from the lousy type knurling tool making my tool post rotate regardless of how tight I made the nut on top of the tool post that holds it down (I went to the point of stripping the threads of the vertical shaft that goes through the tool post). Then I bought a scissor type knurling tool and never looked back.
👍👍👍
exceptional.
+Lee Waterman Thanks for watching
I've never actually seen a scissor or otherwise opposed knurling tool actually used before, it seems the bump style is more popular on youtube because they work on any size work (including working past a larger diameter) with no adjustment and are relatively cheap and can even be easily made. This type does seem much faster and requires a lot less out of your machine, though I do still see the draw of the other type. I'm also guessing, based on how often I see it, that it's ok to use a brush for an open wheel bump style knurler since there's a lot less for the bristles to get caught in, especially if it's on the exit side.
1. Interesting type of knurler. In the device you showed, what are the minimum and maximum diameters possible? Is there any magic to setting up the knurler for a particular diameter of work?2. I had to go look up exactly what a turret lathe is. Perhaps a tour of the different types of lathes would be a topic for some day. I'd be particularly interested in the relative advantages of each type.3. Must this type of knurling always start at the end of the work piece? 4. Is the turret knurler fundamentally different than a scissors-type? Aside from the strength of the design, they seem use the same principle.Thanks!!Dave Kellogg
+Dave Kellogg Thanks for watching-Its really the same as the sissors, but harder to adjust. Those are good ideas
Another question: suppose one were to make a tool holder that can hold the knurler vertically. That is to say a tool holder that bolts down to a slotted cross slide. The holder is such that the knurler rolls point upward as opposed to the conventional toward the spindle. (assuming you could adjust/position on-center height and centered along X axis). Would the knurler still work? This would allow those like me who only have say a South Bend 9A (I only have an AXA tool post), to do longer knurling operations, or larger diameter knurls with the bigger B&S knurlers (like a 1" or so). I don't see yet any reason it wont work. unless the rollers cannot be positioned sufficiently for a vertical placement of the tool. But if it would work, I can envision it coming in pretty handy!
Could you please show us how to make the same on non round surfaces? I have seen that on gun levers and even some flat surfaces, I wonder how they done that
Seems like the variable use of this tool is small and that purchasing one for every size might be costly over time. Also, if this is variable in the diameter usable, then perhaps the knurling might not be perfect if you change size a little bit (I have no idea how much would be noticeable). Like you said, I plan to buy a scissor type (one tool fits most sized I would want to do). Perhaps in the future, you might do a video on the scissor type of tool. This video leaves me very confident that if I did have this type of knurling tool, then perhaps I could do it easily and repeatedly. Thank you yet again. OH, and yes, I will sell the one I was a sucker and bought!!. ;)
+Jeff Conti Thanks for watching--mine has a range 1/8 to 9/16
How could you do that on a taper work? Like a beavel gear, but instead tooth, make knurl
LOL ! Mr Pete ! Unsuspecting suckers ! That's what we used to call our buddies when they got married !
lol
Thanks for the video. I'd like to see how you adjust the knurls for different diameters.
+Jason Gabriel Thanks for watching
Does it matter or not whether the OD of the workpiece is an even multiple of the knurler roller's pitch?
Some videos, even some metal cutters I know insist you have to reverse spndle direction in order to feed the knurl off the work. You don't need to. It's just a knirl, not a thread.
Hi mrpete222, was watching the previous vid 213, Part 2 is set to private or missing. I was looking forward to part 2.
Love your videos, Thanks
+Brian Pimm tomorrow
Kids might say "k-nurling" but so would your great, great, great grandpa.
Words like that with mute letters are written as they were spoken at the time someone first wrote them.
Pete, I looked on Ebay and Amazon under every name of a kneeling tool that I could think of. I surely would like to have one like you shoed in the video. If you can tell me exactly what you use to identify it I would appreciate it. Thanks, I really get an education watching your videos and I love the detail you put into it.
I bought it used from the shop in this video.
tubalcain TAKES A FIELD TRIP #1 The Disassembling of America
Fuck that's cool I never seen the straight knurlier before. Thank for your time.
Thanks.
+Carter W Hern Thanks for watching
Hi Lyle, if that knurling tool had had flats at 90 to each other, that would guarantee that the tool was parallel to the bed whichever way one chose to use it.
+rich kellow Thanks for watching--yes, that would help.
You're so right about the bump type knurling tool, poor suckers... :(
This is why we designed one from the ground up, some are going to Keith Fenners's giveaway tool boxes... ;)
+pierre beaudry YES
+mrpete222 I'll be looking forward to seeing that
mrpete222
Thanks... ;)
Very cool. I need one of these things. It would seem that the diameter of the stock needs to be such that when the ridge of the knurling tool comes around it ends up in the same place. If so, then the diameter of stock/diameter of knurl wheel/ridges in knurl wheel = integer. Is my understanding correct?
I believe that is a misconception
Hi Mr pete i bought two sizes of pinch type knurlers one large one small chinese made for under $100.00 and they work good now if you need to change the roller i think you need to knock out a straight pin at this point you might have to make a new pin and thread it upgrade . with the two tools i can knurl up to 4 -1/2 in . copy of the Eagle rock tool made in usa. bought on EBay made in India .
👍👍
i wonder if a person could make new jaws for a three jaw chuck to hold knurls
Mrpete I once had a 4x4 truck that had a bad front drive shaft splines stripped out in slip coupling I was told the splines were knurled on I got a man at a machine shop to make me new drive shaft with course splines.
+Joe Tiller No wonder they stripped
Thanks great info and demonstration provided
I’m in Melbourne Australia and have come across one however
Need to replacement knurling wheels any info on where I can get
Them would be of great help
MSC
Hey, Lyle. That is a cool turrett knurler.Do you know what brand that old micrometer is? I have an older one which looks similar, but didn't see a manufacturer on it.
+ILGopher There are no markings on it
I always wondered how the knurling lines up once the work has done a full rotation? I would think murphy's law would take effect and you would see a sort of a doubling up of the knurls. Are the rollers matched exactly to the diameter you are knurling?
If I remember correctly the diamond knurling tools will mostly self align as it is worked in. For other tools starting with a piece circumference that's a multiple of the knurl spacing works best. This is from memory from quite a while ago so someone else can give you a better answer.
Interesting, thanks for responding, if anybody else can elaborate, by all means please do! cheers
+Atimatik Army the chamfer, and the precise setting of the distance between rollers in a pinch type knurler will also align the knurling. It's with the hand knurling that things get tricky.
So with a pinch type knurler tool, they must be only able to do very specific fixed diameters in order for the knurls to line up exactly on themselves as the work is rotated, correct?
Atimatik Army the knurl pitch diameters are limited, but since undersized stock will just not form complete knurls and oversized stock will have the excess cut away precision diameter stock isn't needed. Depending on the application having incomplete knurls can be an advantage (it doesn't come out looking as clean but having flat tops is much nicer on the fingers than points)
WOOPS, I errored in my previous comment. I opened "You Tube" not Facebook. Hmm, perhaps it was the 100 mile drive in freezing rain and fog that messed up my mind, or perhaps I am just old, grin.... Sorry for the confusion Mr. Pete old age has a way of fooling with me. Regardless it was a very informative video and I am happy You Tube suggested it.
👍👍
Once again ...Mr. Pete for President! Seems to me this beats even the scissor type approach ...unless maybe there is a need for larger knurls then the shank on this tool?
Thank you and merry Christmas
On 11/24/15 at this URL, I learned something. Please add a cut to the next video showing return of Mrs Tubalcain's brush to the medicine cabinet. We're all wondering if you leave it in the parts washer. Manors.
+Crafted That would be funny
Thanks Mr.Pete.All we had in high school were the tool holder type that you dislike. It would usually take me more than one try to get it right.If you straight knurl the inside of a bore,could you get it to spline to a straight knurl on a shaft like a slip yoke on a drive shaft?
+Mr Frog Thanks for watching-I have never done internal knurling
Okay,just wondering.Thanks again Mr.Pete!
+Mr Frog I have tried that, here's what I learned.
1. IF you get the same number of splines on both parts and
2. IF you get the correct pitch diameter on both parts and
4. IF you get the same side angle on both parts and
5. IF you get the same twist on both parts (straight knurling is seldom truly straight) then you will get a marginal spline that will have little strength or lifespan. Because of changes in pitch a few teeth will bear the load and wear, quickly becoming sloppy. Splines and gears are sometimes roll forged but are usually finished by milling, grinding, broaching, etc. to ensure size and straightness.
My advice is if you need a sliding shaft joint then use a captive key and keyway or a square shaft and hole or an Allen wrench and hex hole. Square and hex holes can be found in sockets and socket-head screws. If you need a free sliding shaft then use a key or a square as hex can wedge under load like the setscrew that sticks to the wrench.
Mike (o\!/o)
It is important to remember there is a relationship of the pitch of the knurl rollers to the circumference of the part being knurled
+Peter Taylor Thanks for watching--to some, not to me
There is a lot going on here and you do such a good job that it might appear to be easy (though you clearly stated that at the start that it was not at all easy)
Do you think it would be possible to do a video on what mistakes can be made doing knurls? Or, rather, how to avoid them.
+MrJgstoner Thnks for watching- possibly. But I made this video to show a foolproof method. All the other methods are bad
I looked up how much the 1942, $23.50 knurler would cost today, according to an internet inflation checker $23.50 in 1942 is equivalent to $351.21 in 2017 (that's a rate of inflation of 1394.5%).
This is long after when this video was posted, but 2 questions, if anyone who sees this can answer them:
1) I’m confused by the fact that you don’t seem to have to calculate the spacing of the knurling dies (that is, the final part diameter between them) to match the pitch of the knurls. Isn’t this kind of like gear teeth, where the number and pitch of the teeth need to match the circumference? I’d expect to see some sort of defects, where the pitch and circumference didn’t match.
2) With harder materials, a wimpier lathe, or a thin part that can’t be supported as well as you’d like, do you ever need to take multiple lighter passes, rather than a single full-depth one? Would there be a reason why you *wouldn’t* want to do that? (I guess some metals could work-harden, so multiple passes would be self-defeating…)
Thanks in advance for any insight people might have on these!
(And many, many, many thanks to Mr Pete for all the knowledge, experience and information he’s shared so generously here!)
sorry for my ignorance, but why are they called back gears?
+seasonedtoker Thanks for watching--they are behing the main spindle gears (sometimes below too.
+mrpete222 Or even as planetary gears in the spindle pulley as on some small Atlas lathes. I always thought of them as backing off the speed.
Mike (o\!/o)
Hello pete.
Any idea why this popped up in my feed?
Years ago at my job at Ryobi Machining Plant, we were playing around/experimenting with a 5" mill head. We were trying different inserts (diamond,carbide & exotics) to get different surface finishes on a transmission (AXOD) panface. We also were experimenting with the feed and speed too, many different combos.
Anyway, one of our trials resulted in a perfectly knurled panface! (One of the inserts chipped on us creating the knurling)
Was pretty neat at the time, thinking about it now, seems boring.
lol
Have a Great Thanksgiving!
+SSArt98 Thanks for watching---very interesting
mrpete222 This is an old video so you will probably not see my comment. I always told the new guys in the shop the definition of a Knurled Surface was to discourage the dummys from using Vise Grips to loosen and tighten a part.
lol
I have one of those rockwin knurl masters.... God forbid you need new rollers for it, I haven't been able to find them other than for the exorbidant price eagle rock wants for them
if it's that difficult to knurl a round bar. I wonder what it would be like to knurl a pistol grip.
+The Eternal Hermit Thats CHECKERING
Can conduit be knurled.
Possibly, with a pinch type in earlier, but I have my doubts
7:11 You just had a user send you a left handed thread tap the proper size & "lament the loss of your knurler) Aloris AT-19 so put the two together and you can now make one. New video idea!
Interestingly after checkering gunstocks for the last 6 yrs my eye for formed diamonds has become sharp to the diamonds shape...and I can tell that the aluminum diamonds are not as sharp as the metal...
i dont remember knurling to be remotely as difficult in shop class as you let it on to be. We had a one roller knurler, and a 3 speed lathe.
+Albion Laster Thanks for watching--I sure remember
The relative value of 23.50 in 1942 is about $353.00 in 2017
Wow!
Mr Pete: try as I might, I have never been able to see HOW a knurling tool does NOT overlap unevenly; as it goes past the 360 degree point of a turn; UNLESS it would be sized PERFECTLY to EACH piece it is knurling. Where is my thinking flawed? Could you please explain that in detail if you will? As always your videos are exemplary. May Jesus continue to richly bless you and yours always dear person.
To me, dia. has nothing to do with it. Billions of good knurls are made with pinch knurlers with no thought of dia
It's kinda like having three gears mesh together. no matter the size of the middle gear, if the two outer gear are spinning as the same rate and have the same size with the same teeth pattern, they would still mesh and not grind or whatever.
You are onto something.....Remember, in the video, Mr. Pete told you the tool was for 3/8 inch...so yes, those knurlers would work, AS LONG AS YOU TURNED 3/8 inch stock.....So yes, you are right....You're thinking isn't flawed...I learned this on my own... You can't just knurl random sized stock and get a perfect diamond knurl.....You have to do some calculations.....But, if you're knurling other sizes, you have to match the diameter/circumference of the part to the knurling tool.... Excellent point.
knurls well that ends well
+Paul Frederick Good one!
armstrongs defeated the sirola's at the battle of hastings!!!
+rob armstrong THATS GOOD-- Thanks for watching
23.50 in 1942 would today be 334.00 ..... WOW
+Robert Perrigo YES---too much for home use
here a knurl, there a knurl, every where a knurl knurl.
LOL
Like ~M~
just a sign off suggestion....instead of "ill see you in my next video" how about "you'll see me in my next video"
Good idea, since I cannot see you or anyone else for that matter.
can you tell me the saying you used when you were discussing the student stealing all the scribes.. it start out "boys who leave their name on places...….) I cant remember what episode it was in....
I really enjoy the detail you provide in your videos. If you ever feel compelled to cover the subject of how ”rope" knurls are made, that would be very interesting to me. The topic has been covered by Clickspring here on TH-cam, but your take on the subject would be a valuable addition. This is something I am trying to learn to do in my own shop, but I’m not having much success with it.
I have two videos coming up on how to knurl. Old anymore today. I am unfamiliar with a rope knurl
@@mrpete222 Rope knurls are used on old ornamental machine screws. I repair and restore old telegraph equipment and they are used extensively in these devices. The knurl resembles the side of a rope wrapped around the screw cap. It is very pretty and I am trying to learn how to make the knurling wheels to duplicate this effect. This may not be something you wish to tackle, but I'd love to see your take on it if you do. Thanks for the reply.
This is long after when this video was posted, but 2 questions, if anyone who sees this can answer them:
1) I’m confused by the fact that you don’t seem to have to calculate the spacing of the knurling dies (that is, the final part diameter between them) to match the pitch of the knurls. Isn’t this kind of like gear teeth, where the number and pitch of the teeth need to match the circumference? I’d expect to see some sort of defects, where the pitch and circumference didn’t match.
2) With harder materials, a wimpier lathe, or a thin part that can’t be supported as well as you’d like, do you ever need to take multiple lighter passes, rather than a single full-depth one? Would there be a reason why you *wouldn’t* want to do that? (I guess some metals could work-harden, so multiple passes would be self-defeating…)
Thanks in advance for any insight people might have on these!
(And many, many, many thanks to Mr Pete for all the knowledge, experience and information he’s shared so generously here!)
The second handle of the hand knurler: conspicuously not knurled.
+Hirudin Thanks for watching--maybe they were doing it by hand & got tired