The Problem With Taekwondo - ITF TKD Black Belt Reflects
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2020
- We have Zhang Long (张龙), a Chinese ITF (Interational Taekwondo Federation) black belt talking about what he thinks is the problem with Taekwondo. He talks about issues with TKD both in the world and in China, specifically. This is one of the most enlightening interviews, and we'll have a lot to reflect on and think about. Hope you like this in-depth Fight Commentary Breakdowns! Leave your comments below!
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Jerry, I think this type of video can become a very awesome series on your channel. Just my unprofessional opinion ;) Cheers~
The practice for ITF and WTF has a different focus. The forms are different and in sparring WTF focuses on full contact kicks for sport. ITF focuses on hands and feet practiced both semi contact and full contact depending on the sparring rule set at the time which ends up more like old Western kickboxing kicking above the waist. I enjoy both and they both have their strengths and weaknesses but because of their chosen paths they are different. See the youtube links below for examples:
th-cam.com/video/oJHTW6RcDtE/w-d-xo.html - WTF
th-cam.com/video/Wie6CIwF1oE/w-d-xo.html - WTF
th-cam.com/video/RlaNFYbB1PU/w-d-xo.html - ITF
th-cam.com/video/-j65ixl4fyM/w-d-xo.html - ITF
I lived in south korea for 8 years and the south koreans consider ITF the "north Korean TKD".
it is in fact the original TKD, which was supposed to be for all koreans, but due to political and financial reasons the WTF/Olympic style was created in South Korea to be the main TKD and national sport.
North Koreans in fact use ITF YTaekwon-Do for their military training to this day.
the topic of ITF and WTF, is like a can of worms and causes a lot of arguments among certain types though.
Outside of South Korea ITF is widespread, and depending on the instructor you will find schools that are mostly focused on fighting.
WTF has neglected punches due to their competition ruleset.
ITF uses punches in competition and some coaches incorporate proper boxing, although punching is generally a weakness in both TKD styles.
Thanks for the information!
@@FightCommentary The "ITF is North Korean" is also seems to be said a lot now because one of the many ITF organisations essentially is run from NK, though ostensibly the HQ is still in Vienna, and saying that it started in NK is part of their claim toward being the legitimate/first ITF. ITF TKD didn't actually exist in NK until about the 80s as far as I can tell. The politics is definitely a can of worms but doesn't seem any different from any other human endeavor...
@@cwhitetkd gen choice brought tkd to North Korea in 1980,it caused many masters to leave the ITF in protest due to anti communist sentiment..The ITF style didn't even exist in South Korea from 1966 until very recently.
Gen. Choi formalized Tae Kwon Do during and shortly after WWII. He was born in what is North Korea today, but growing up there was no North or South Korea. It was just Korea. Gen Choi lost a lot of his top people because of the way he treated them-always the General. They did not see Gen. Choi as have the monopoly on Tae Kwon Do, only that he modernized it and gave it a new name. This was to distinguish it from Japanese Karate because it had been known as Korean Karate. The war and Japanese occupation left a bad taste in Gen. Choi's mouth, so he wanted to establish Korea's identity separate from Japan through establishing a Korean martial art, dubbing it Tae Kwon Do.
As some of the top Masters and Grand Masters began leaving Gen. Choi, they continued to develop Tae Kwon Do has a uniquely Korean martial art. Gen Choi's TKD became known as ITF and the other became known as WTF. The communism aspect was an out growth of the divide between North and South Korea. Essentially, Gen. Choi was so blood lustful to promote TKD, particularly ITF over WTF (he felt betrayed by his Masters and made it a vendetta against them) that he was willing to go anywhere to promote it.
He gathered a new set of Masters and started touring the world. This is why ITF is popular throughout the world and South Korea is so staunchly WTF. It has more to do with the personal animosities between Gen. Choi and his original Masters than communism and South Korea.
Source: A Killing Art: The Story of Tae Kwon Do, Alex Gillis
You combat sports people really need to remember that "coach" is someone who teaches sports. When you're talking about Karate or Taekwondo, we don't have coaches. In Karate they have senseis. In Taekwondo we have saboms. In Chinese Martial Arts you have a sifu.
The word "coach" has different canotations than "sensei" or "sabom". A sensei is not only a martial arts instructor but a spiritual advisor and general counselor. You guys are implying that people who study real martial arts are just doing it as a sport, the same as you guys are doing, but that's not actually what (most of us) are doing. I haven't been to a studio in 20+ years, due to time and money, but when I was going, the instructor was sabom not coach.
I don't know why the subtitles are translating what the Korean guy is saying as "coach". It sounded like he was saying sabom which is not a coach.
Let me put it this way, if you go to the Shaolin Temple and study Kung Fu, NO ONE there will refer to the Shaolin Fighting Monks as "coaches" if they are speaking English. Because the Shaolin Temple is, in fact, a Temple. Buddhist monks practice Buddhism there. They don't do sports, they do martial arts.
cheongnyongyu.com/taekwondo-faqs/what-is-a-taekwondo-instructor-called-in-korean/
So true about the money making black belt factories. WAY too many here in the US. Unfortunately, TKD has a bad rep for that here (other styles as well, but that seems to be the main culprit here in California). Too much focus on the Olympic style as well.
I have some friends who trained TKD back in the 70s. Those guys can SCRAP. Total old school fighters.
It seen that some American TKD instructors has shite on their teaching of TKD, at my school we are all Dominican republic and we do hardcore training, American kids are too soft be cause of the mangina mental in society today, but with Latinos kid you can train them tough. The parents will be expecting that.
@@orencio1969 Sounds like the Russian kids here in California. LOTS of Russians, Ukrainians, etc here. The parents like their kids taught old school.
Hw bout kickboxing. A kickboxer will smash u all
South Korean General Choi Hung Hi is widely regarded as the founder of Tae Kwon Do.
Against the wishes of the South Korean Government, he introduced TKD into North Korea. He also moved to Canada and set up the ITF International Tae Kwon Do Federation and helped spread TKD around the world.
The South Korean Government set up the WTF World Tae Kwon Do Federation.
He moved to Canada in 1972 because of the political situation in SK. He went to NK in 1979. It was controversial even within the ITF as many Korean masters had been in the SK army during the Korean war. It lost ITF many followers (but also gained them a lot).
If you want to destroy your martial art, send it to the Olympics :(
I think Judo had to have a lot of moves taken out too as it got more mainstream, so you might be right about that!
Hes ITF taekwondo while you are thinking of WTF taekwondo...completety different style of taekwondo.
ITF isnt in the Olympics. lol
Yep. Fencing, judo, wrestling, and TKD all became watered down in order to make them easier to regulate as a sport. Put an olympic fencer against a historical fencer and see who wins. An old school judoka/jujutsuka against an olympic judoka and the olympian will be destroyed (assuming olympic rules are not in play). Old school traditional TKD used to teach punches to the head and trips/takedowns but now its all about the flashy kicks to score more points.
I don't know how much wrestling has changed, but it would be cool to see folkstyle pinning combinations done in freestyle/greco matches.
Mongol Chiuud yeah but he talks about WTF TKD and critiques it. I’m agreeing with the critique. WTF is way more popular.
I find it amazing how a lot of us discover the same pattern of money = bullshido and how difficult it cam be to find a real school.
I was lucky enough to be born into a town with a real dojang and it has produced national champions
ITF was actually developed in Seoul, South Korea by General Choi. The whole North Korean thing probably started when Choi was exiled from South Korea and when he said he wanted Chang Ung who was a North Korean IOC member to take over as President on his deathbed and when South Korea abandoned it to create WTF
Very interesting!
Choi was exiled in 1966 to start ITF,from then on there was no ITF in the South Korea until recently with his son.The chang ung issue didn't arise until 2001 and had nothing to do with divide.In 1980 choi brought tkd to the north and created a big rift amongst his masters with over half leaving him.
General Choi born in North Korea though
Remember when Hoist Gracie won the 1st UFC and all these bbj gyms were popping up. You had Brazilian instructors changing their last names to Gracie.
Turning a martial art into a sport is very cool, now leaving the combat mechanism in which it is intended is different, which is why it is necessary to keep some combat mechanism in order not to lose the martial essence, just like muay thai , boxing, karate and taekwondo.
The best thing my old TKD teacher ever taught me was to run away. Obviously not useful in competition fighting, but as a method of self-defence it works pretty well.
I learned TKD back in the 80s whereby sparring was a lot more violent. I clearly remember our instructor dislocating my friends jaw with a swift roundhouse kick. But I must admit, it’s clearly an incomplete martial art. It truly lacks pinching skills not to mention ground work.
Now a days all fighting styles are incomplete.
ITF is from the Guy whom signed the name TKD, General Choi, who lived (ives?) in Canada. He branched off from Korea when TKD was set to be an olympic SPORT, and he never wanted it to be sportvized**. So we have WT(F) completly on sports side and ITF completly on the Fight Side, thou You can stil find old timers (like me) from WT(F) not going full "foot fencing" nor "K-PoP+TKD". I'm still a big power kicker, but we gotta understand youngsters looking for moders (shitty) competitions.
Thanks for the info!
Choi died 18 yrs ago
I really enjoyed the commentary about Chinese cultural, it gives interesting insight into something that I think many of us have no understanding of. I look forward to hearing more of that kind of quick "sidenote".
The thing that's killing a lot of tkd is not focusing on the martial arts and focusing on marketing in mass. The rule set also doesn't help
Hey man didn’t think I’d see you here! And also I agree. I love ITF Taekwondo because we learn boxing techniques, blocks, self defense scenario techniques, and kicks
The biggest thing people get wrong is that WT TKD is itself a style but it isnt. World Taekwondo (formerly WTF) is the governing body for the sport rules and regulations of Kukki TKD. WT (WTF) does not certify any rank or put any focus on TKD as anything other than a sport. Kukkiwon does however, have a practical side that many schools dont incorporate in their training because the sport has overshadowed the martial art. Its kind of like how there is sport karate and practical (traditional) karate. TL;DR, WT is not a style or a system of TKD but the governing body for the rules of the sport based on the multi-style Kukki TKD system.
Yeah WT is like the WKF for Shotokan or the IBJJF for the mainstream BJJ style. Its a federation, the governing body. Well said
Yes but the governing body has a HUGE influence on how schools teach and what they make important. You see a HUGE divide right down the ITF/WTF line. So while what you say is technically true in real life If a School is ITF affiliated they will have almost nothing in common with a School that is WTF affiliated outside of Korean flag, use of Korean terminology and they will use the same basic kicks, blocks and strikes but how they put them together, use them, philosophy, training, fighting/sparing rules and even the history of the art taught to the students will all be completely different.
Thank you! You have clearly done your research.
"Chinese boys becoming more feminine" Hahaha... wtf. Zhang Long really dares to comment.
Yeah, I'm still surprised that he was that candid! Very uncharacteristic of people who grew up in China.
@THE KRAKEN Or beer is heavy in carbs, and because less people have time to work out, and gyms cost a lot of money, they get chubby from it. Seriously you can figure this out without a conspiracy
@@justalurker3489 He might have been joking. ;) ;)
He’s telling the truth tho they are more feminine
The montage at the end nice touch
Zhang Long's comment about punching caught my attention, even though TKD focuses on kicks, it does have punches. This is especially so with ITF TKD. ITF TKD forms are predominantly hand techniques, my estimate is about 90% hand techniques. I am curious why TKD evolved into a predominantly kicking art in sparring. In sparring, ITF TKD uses more hands than WTF TKD but even so, ITF TKD is still more of a kicking art when sparring. ITF TKD forms are very similar to Shotokan Karate.
KUKKIWON forms has more punches than kicks, look at them before making a blanket statement, now training in classes we do more kicks as exercises cause we are feets dominance, not because we can't punch. It pure bullshit to say TKD have no punches.
It was very much to emphaisize it as a Korean art and differentiate it from Karate.
@@orencio1969 early Kukkiwon forms didn't even have kicks in the first few. First two ITF still don't.
@@moominpic the palwue forms were replace by the taeguek forms which contain a lots of kicking
Korean arts share their kickings prowess from the northeast parts of China
Love your stuff man!! Hopefully some day I'll be on your level. Hell, maybe even collab SOME day lol.
Keep it up, it's much much appreciated!
Collab with me!
Between both WTF and ITF is that they have a different way of teaching techniques and wear different uniforms but they were both created in South Korea and each founder had a different idea to develop TKD which led them in a dispute and decided to break off and create they're own organization.
Nobody founded the WTF it was what remained of tkd in the south when choi left to form the ITF in Canada .
@@scarred10 there was two founders of TKD there was choi and and another founder named Moo Cow Kwon, choi didn't started ITF until he broke off his partnership with moo cow kwon and move to Canada to form ITF. So choi found ITF and Moo Cow Kwon founded WTF which would be known more in Korea then ITF.
@@ryantata5945 Moo Duk kwan was a style of Korean karate, it wasn't a persons name.It was actually just shotokan not Korean at all.Nobody founded tkd, choi just named the oh do kwans version of karate tkd and changed it gradually from there ,especially in the early 80s with the intro of the sine wave.Nobody thinks there were 2 founders of tkd,it was all down to choi but he didn't invent anything new.The moo duk Kwan either became tang so do or joined the WTF,it doesn't exist today in korea.
@@scarred10 What about taekyon (or something like that) the ancient korean martial arts? Didn't that also influence TKD besides karate?
@@Hy-jg8ow very little,maybe some of the kicks
If you haven’t done one yet you should do a video on similarities, differences, the good things and bad from from ITF, WTF, ATA TKD
There's a real beef between ITF and WT(F) dojangs. I had my start in a WT(F) dojang, went through the rainbow road for my black belt, but rather than having a master that didn't do shit and would leave instructors to teach, nah he did that shit himself. So naturally I learned a lot and when it came time for me to move on, I went through Wing Chun and Judo in college, and now I'm a Muay Thai/BJJ/Boxing hobbyist. Is one better than the other? Nah I dunno, but we definitely sparred, full contact, and that was normal for us. I did come across some ATA schools and some other unaffiliated TKD dojangs that didn't spar and I was like "yikes".
But as for the beef between ITF and WT(F)? Probably just salt. The WT(F) is definitely based in South Korea and they're likely making a lot of bank. Hell, I've still got my 2nd Dan card that was mailed to me when I got my 2nd degree black belt lol.
Interesting! Thanks for sharing!!
@@FightCommentary Sure thing! If you have any other questions, I'd be more than happy to answer them. As for Zhang Long's take on WTF being more about dancing, he ain't too wrong.
th-cam.com/video/nSXvWUBnQbM/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=K-TigersTV - that's some of the WTF's national demo team, the K-tigers, doing taekwondo poomsae (kata) to K-pop.
I love both!!! ITF and WTF
I started practicing wtf taekwondo not too long ago. But the way my teacher teaches it, he doesn’t just focus on kicks. He taught me to kick with power during the regular classes, and teaches me proper wtf sparring in the sparring classes. During the form and breaking classes, he teaches us to kick with power and teaches us punching aswell. Well to be fair he did practice both itf and wtf taekwondo so maybe that’s why he teaches punching aswell as kicking.
Well am lucky in our dojo we hv three coaches Kyokushin Taekwondo and Kickboxing. So i hv a combination of three from last 10 years being a prokickboxer in UAE i found out tht Taekwondo has amazing speed Kyokushin has amazing strengh nd conditioning and Kickboxing has great power and the combination of these three will make u absolute monster in the striking world.
That is awesome! Got any footage?
@@FightCommentary yes i hv but hw i can send u
@@FightCommentary i will spar wd boxer in few days then also u make a vid diff between kickboxing nd boxing
In my area ITF "style" schools including the one I attend are dominant probably by a ratio as much as 5 to 1 or higher, that being said I also do not know of any schools that are actually ITF rather most were ITF but left probably when the ITF divided, however they use an ITF curriculum, also more common than WT are Taekwondo schools that are sort off pre ITF WT split using Jhoon Rhee's curriculum
ITF was the first and only Taekwondo until South Korean Government separated to create WTF. Why? Because of the creator of TWD General Choi kept ties with North Korea. Please don't think of Kim Jon Il and Un era of how we know of North Korea today. General Choi was taught Karate and old school Korean martial arts. He then created Taekwondo which was later renamed ITF in 1960s. WTF Olympic style was created in the 70s. ITF's got punches/hand strikes like Karate and things related to Hapiko like joint twists and locks but modern-day ITF schools teach mainly the forms and sparring. Definitely not popular than WTF and less availability. General Choi sent out his students around the world to promote Taekwondo in the 60s. Those are the pioneers of Taekwondo and many are still alive and teaching. ITF is OG of Taekwondo and North Korean martial art, but really it's was for both north and south. It's also true many dojangs are Mcdojos sadly.
So interesting!
in some countries ITF is more popular than WTF. for example most of Latin America and Europe.
WTF is more popular in Africa and in English Speaking Countries.
@@Liquidcadmus yes I would think that itf is more readily available in Ireland than wtf
Zhang Long: "Chinese men and boys are becoming feminine."
American Men: "Hold my latte -- but first, let me get permission from my wife's boyfriend."
😆
The SIMPsons
*soylent bottle.
"soy-decaf latte
@Bob Smith From the good ole' USA. And I know several "conservative men" who have given up their guns because their wives are afraid of guns or of the stigma of owning guns. Our nation has been cuqqed, or hadn't you noticed?
I'm not saying the US is worse than other nations, especially western Europe, but you won't find this shiznit anywhere in Slavic or Muslim nations. They not only allow manhood there, they insist on it. But no worry, in 15 years Western Europe will be a Muslim nation. It will be so much fun to see Angela Merkel get circumcised.
I think that goes for every country in the world that yeah some countries might be more different in America parents might be home a little bit more than in China but in a general aspect we are adults if we're parents or not it really doesn't matter we are at work more than anything else I mean when I go to work I'm looking at 10:11 or 12 hours and it's only 24 hours in a day so can you imagine that
Lots of martial arts can be just as ineffective depending on the person that utilizes it. It's kind of like giving a sword to a master and then giving one to a toddler then asking them to defend themselves with it. The swords is only effective when someone knows how to utilize it and utilize it within their own physical capability... (there's not going to be many people that can do spinning split kicks lol)... Knowing your own physical limitations can be just as important. I'm an ITF practitioner as well, what I got more out of it though is the discipline behind the art and what it took to maintain the level of fitness, flexibility, and technique to maintain being able to perform at a high skill level. Drop the ball for a week or two, and you could be in trouble with getting back to that high level or standard. The same commitment needs to be applied outside the dojang, such as jobs, family and even hobbies... you need to give an output of equal effort to receive anything beneficial in return
Very interesting!
Look further at the sword analogy
If you never spar with fake swords enough or controlled sparring with real ones
to develope your timing,you will never be able to sword fight.The issue is the training method more than the individual, you must replicate the fight and its stress in training. The individual make fighters adage is used by bullshit arts to excuse the fact that they wont train effectively.
The beginning of what is ITF Taekwondo was South Korea. However, after a long story of fascinating politics and spy stuff, General Choi Hong Hi eventually goes to North Korea for most likely monetary reasons. He is widely considered the founder of Taekwondo. After the general moved to North Korea from Canada and began training their military, Colonel Nam Tae Hi, who is one of the 12 original taekwondo masters and the inventor of the 1st made TKD form, reportedly never talks to him again. There is a lot of history about the ITF formation and uses by the South Korean government and the creation of World Taekwondo.
I started with Tae known do black belt in hubakido black belt jujitsu black belt Korean American karate taekowndo black 2nt dan hubakido black belt I started 1 week after I got out of high school at age 18 did this until I was 40 .
Punches in Tae Kwon Do (generally speaking) are similar to them in jiu-jutsu in that they can be used to "damage" or knock out but they're more used for creating openings. At least that's how I've viewed it
There are no punches in any jujitsu, if there are in yours it's a westernized version for sport.The punches in tkd are unrelated, they are not used for openings but to damage since it's a self defense art.
Who did you interview for Mantis boxing?
His name is Randy. It’s on Fight Commentary Chats.
There was a taekwondo pioneer called general choi, from south korea, who said taekwondo should be teached in north korea, but this was considered a treason by south korea's government. He ended up moving to Canada and founding ITF. Others who stayed in S.Korea created WT(F) which became the olympic sport with support from government. Source: history I heard from my tkd master at 2008-2010.
He formed ITF in 1960s in SK, left for Canada in 1972 and then went to NK in 1979/80.
First view!!!
Congrats!
You only have to look at Judo and how the sport side has removed newaza and grabbing the legs.
I'd like to see Taekwondo in the Olympics more like Karate Combat in the ruleset with throws and leg kicks allowed.
To a certain degree I would say that ITF is North-Korean and WTF South-Korean. Because the father of TKD was born in North-Korea- He escaped to South-Korea. There TKF got further developed. In 1972 South-Korea wanted to use TKD for political reasons. The father of TKD didn't want that, so he moved to Canada. A year later WTF TKD was created.
Sources:
TKD books
Some of TKD people, WTF and ITF add boxing and hapkido to their skills. WTF is a sport so often dojangs focus on sport element going into competitions.
I think like a lot of striking schools it’s dependent on the instructors themselves and their ability to teach. Some wtf schools ignore punches all together, some teaching basic boxing combos. The problem is that people don’t realize sparring in tournament isn’t the be all end all to becoming a competent fighter. Also I suggest other wtf people to enter itf tournaments and sparring with other striking styles like various karate styles or muay Thai
Tuls of tkd ITF, has the tendency to be more choreography. However, if the student practices the TULS using of the secrets of training carefully, based on the TKD ITF Encyclopedia, the student will able to use in a combat, due to for the repetitions of the movements, this is why I sill believe in this martial art; and its very useful for the combat and sparring, kick boxing style.
well i just got back from class few hours ago, i did itf as a kid, then muay thai then ju jitsu but had a break n now back at wtf tkd, mate theres a big diference, 1st no punches or tuff hand to hand combat, also i noticed i could deck the whole class, also i feel alota tkd classes a just belt collecting n cant even have a good go. real shame, i left like thinking that class was shit, i should've taken a jog, anyways im going to do wing chun on the side as ive done a dash but not much but wing chun def better. im not happy with these classes so i will find a more suitable class n do kung fu!!!! i agreee mate. n im ozy!!!!!!
He's not wrong about the neutering part, but generally it always comes down to the practitioner and what they can make out of the techniques they've learned.
No! Imagine you only know how to grappling but you run to a street fight where there are more of them than you.
How will you grab all of them at once?
You need also striking skills to survive.
Every techniques has a flaw, thats y u need to learn other techniques.
The taekwondo guy was absolutely correct about everything he said.
ITF and WTF are both South Korean but the founder of ITF got into a spat with the South Korean government after introducing ITF to North Korea (it was considered a military skill back then) so now ITF is associated with North Korea where it's the national sport and WTF (kukkiwon style) replaced ITF in the South.
quick history lesson on taekwondo. Itf was the original taekwondo and it was based in south korea. however, when the founder of itf ran into problems with the president of south Korea, the founder moved to Canada and took the ITF headquarters with him. The founder of Itf still wanted to teach taekwondo to his quote on quote "own people" but he couldn't move back to south korea so he moved to north korea and took itf along with him. during this time, south korea developed their own taekwondo, wt or wtf. So that's why people think itf is north korean.
2:07 wtf is that?!!!!!😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Kukkiwon Taekwondo or sometimes called "World Taekwondo" the sparring is more a reflection of Taekyun. Taekwondo is modernized Taekyun. In Taekyun you did not punch the face, instead it was largely a duel of who can show kicking superiority. Yes most WT school focused mostly on sparring rather self defense. Which is a shame but many masters don't train self defense and taekwondo forms do not have much meaning, unlike Karate. Again this is more to do with TKD being a sparring based martial art and Karate is a forms based martial art.
As a taekwondo instructor who started with ITF and is presently WTF, some of you guys have it wrong.... ... .. when i decided that i wanted to go to the olympics 19 yrs old fascinated with taekwondo, all i had to do to switch was not punch to the face during "COMPETITIVE" sparring but during self defense/class sparring we remove protective gears (young and dumb and usually injured by junior students not controlling their strikes 🤣) and just brawl..... so we kick and punch and throw BUT when we go to WTF competitions we adjust to the rules and that is how i teach my kids. In the dojang we grapple, throw sweep and obviously kick and punch but during competitions we stick to WTF rules.
joined TKD when i'm in highschool. sadly that one was a damn McDojo and getting the belts are damn easy. it really was just to make the parents "happy" paying for it than teaching us shit that works
i thought that maybe my teacher is just one of the shittiest out there, but maybe WTF actually has many of them?
Maybe most people are not suitable for fighting at all, not in attitude and not physical, but still join a martial art club. So these clubs adjusted to "not too violent" training, no sparring, and mostly kata and shadow boxing. No physical risks and easy teaching for the coach. And still giving the romantic idea to the students they are able to fight. They sell an illusion and the students love it.
Very interesting assertion!
truth be told MMA is the way , like the MMA combo is Boxing(a striking martial art)+wrestling(a grappling martial art)+the fighter main martial art. Only Taekwondo is very limited.
I am a taekwondo fighter for at least 10 years I can confirm what he is talking about, 100% agreed.
As a martial art, taekwondo is still amazing, just as complet as karate.
But this new ways of making money and bringing more people to the sport is awfull.
WTF sucks! I was VERY lucky to start with ITF with General Chay's side kick GM Kim Bok Man! Now in Muaythai!
The biggest problem we have done in the West is to put the blame for the problem elsewhere than on ourselves. People in eastern countries like Chechnya and Dagestan train extremely hard and devote a lot of time to combat sports like boxing, taekwondo, and wrestling. Through hard work and determination, they thrive in street fighting as well as MMA. I have witnessed some very good Russian taekwondo practitioners in mixed martial arts competitions, and they are very good.
agreed a lot about the more 'feminine' part of Asians (even 1st generation Koreans/Japanese as well), and this is coming from a 1.5th generation Korean myself. I honestly cannot stand 1st gens because of how hyperfocused they are on appearance (I was surprised to see a whole male "beauty/cosmetic" section in pharmacy stores that sell all these skincare products that go beyond moisturisers, such as foundation and etc)
not to mention, how they always fetishised skinny "flower boys" type of image and look, which I personally find it slightly off-putting and too soft, not to mention, the more "Westernised" part of society is making it even softer as well
Yeah. It’s so interesting. I had a vitamin d deficiency, so I need sun. So I’ve been actively gettin very tan by being on the beach. The joke is I’m getting a Filipino’s skin. But even me trying to be healthy with vitamin D is going against the Asian beauty standards. It’s so ridiculous. I’m now considered too dark for a Chinese person. But I’m not one to care. Fighting unhealthy beauty standards one step at a time.
My assumption as to why tkd might have more bullshido dojo's is due to the popularity because back in the 80s when karate was still popular you would see the same thing happen to them. so yea that is the reason for my assumption popularity
ITF was the original governing body for TKD once TKD left Korea initially. ITF started out of Canada than moved to Vienna Austria it is not Chinese or North Korean. WTF is so far removed from what was originally taught as TKD as to be a different Martial Art entirely with almost nothing in common. I studied ITF which at the time was the only governing body around for TKD WTF had not been invented yet starting in 1979 in Germany. I also studied ITF TKD continuously through 1988 in the USA as well in Georgia. Even all of the forms, tuls, poomsae are different between them. The self defense movements are different, the sparing/fighting rules are different between them. The have the same movements obviously like kicks, punches, blocks but the philosophy is different and how they are applied is different. The older TKD was a harder system and more aggressive system and not orient towards shopping malls and after school specials and definitely not Olympic WTF point fighting at all. You sparred at least 2 times a week often more. Pads were optional. You always had contact it might be light one day, medium another and full the next. You were working a bag and doing other body hardening regularly not as aggressive as Okinawan Karate but far more than you see in most modern Karate and TKD schools in the USA, Europe and Japan today! I have nothing against WTF outside of fantasy origins and out right lies about how TKD was developed and the people that really developed TKD. Outside of that I am sure it is a fine martial arts it just is not TKD except in name only. TKD has it's birth in TangSoDo which was Japanese Karat as taught in Korea 1944 to 1947.
Please use virtual backgrounds. Don't let the background of your videos distract the viewers from listening intently to your content.
Yep. We've gotten a black background now.
Wtf is catered to the Olympic style competition. It's also good exercise. For self defense, unless your school focuses on it; you won't learn much.
I.e. wtf no one covers the face , it's like everyone wants to spring and hit your with a quick front round house, or turn side kick counter, or bullet kick (the three most scoring kicks ever).
But you don't do much on self defense except for form and 1. 2. 3 step self defense etc.
It's a nice sport.
ITF started in SK and eventually moved to Canada because of political problems in SK. This lead to the founding of Kukkiwon and WTF. These had the full support and funding of SK government and so ITF became marginalised. The president of ITF and founder of Taekwon-Do (note spelling), General Choi, took his art to NK in late 1970s/1980s and introduced the sine-wave to replace the traditional (Karate-style) waist twist. This is why man people think ITF TKD is from NK. When General Choi died in 2002 there was a three-way split in ITF, and there were three ITFs: ITF-NK, ITF-Canada, ITF-Vienna. This has since changed, but basically ITF-NK is often seen as the "official" ITF.
Wow!!
I seen a lot of Tomo news talk about the Chinese mistress problem!
What happened to that channel? They used to have amazing videos!!
@@FightCommentary The channel is still around! But I bet they were getting a lot of heat from you-know-who! "Conservative Trump supporters!" And their website still post up details about China. But their TH-cam channel lately I've been pretty laid back. I still remember the good old days waiting for Tomo Girls of the week!
why are tkd itf punches sloppy?
ITF is closer to its Japanese Karate roots than WTF. Since there was a massive drive in North Korea to have a nationally-sponsored martial art and with Korean sentiments towards the Japanese after WWII notbeingvdr good, it's not really hard to imagine that WTF is that way and why the Korean government would sponsor a sport that is more focused on kicking.
I see!
Its notbthat itf is north korean ..grandmaster choi introduced tkd to north korea through the itf
That makes sense now. That explains that misconception!
@@FightCommentary from what i understand.it led to a mas exodus to the wtf. As members of the ITF we're getting a lot of heat because of it. In fact General Choi ended up moving to Canada. Not sure if it was to do with the controversy.
But in the last couple of years especially after the WTF Olympic scandal. The ITF has made a extreme comeback
I think ITF and ATA is closer to Karate or Tang So Do than WTF
Mcdojos all over, its becoming a business, damn!!
"It is rarely ever about merit in any job situation in China"
As a Chinese who grew up in the states, God Bless America.
To be honest, WTF Taekwondo (Olympic or the most popular style) is basically full contact foot fencing and tricking while being stylish and lame. ITF Taekwondo was good kickboxing base despite it's flaws due to it's semi contact sparring.
Hi Jerry, please fast forward to 39:44 of this video clip to see Real Kung Fu th-cam.com/video/NGPx-RM5B9I/w-d-xo.html
It features a guy from HK who ascended the mountains in China to find monks dedicating their lives to Kung Fu. It even features a common day or typical Kung Fu dude sparring with the Monks doing, some full contact no rules fighting... Totally Outclassed! It is this kind of fighting dedicated monks that would be interesting for them to face the MMA and UFC fighters who beat down the fake, zero, even-a-tough-untrained-Street-punk-can-defeat type of sad Kung Fu guys typically shown on TH-cam losing in seconds.
As you Chinese say 天外有天！I believe most of these MMA, UFC，BJJ fighters and 徐晓东 (who I honestly respect) have NOT faced a true Kung Fu fighter.
WT you kick to the head, no punches to face, WT had evolves almost, ITF has stagnated, I say this cause I hold a 5th dan in both TKD system as well as 2nd dan in Tang Soo Do
Wtf taekwondo is defiantly neutered and the “high level” competitions are embarrassing to watch. However, it is full contact. Training in it can help someone learn timing, range, and distance management. Also, their kicks and be quite powerful. Force = mass x acceleration so those quick snappy kicks right to the tummy can be highly effective.
I disagree that its full contact...if its computerized scoring sure its a contact sport but if ur adapting ur striking style to register on a electronic device vs actually inflict damage and respect its not really in the spirit of full contact.
@@warrior-prints7385 Thats very true, but at the end of the day a knockout wins a WTF match and disqualifies in an ITF match. But i agree the spirit of full contact isnt really there.
Those kicks have no real power,just enough to register on device.The full contact title is nonsense,its only about points.Even though ITF is technically ligh contact,the contact is exactly the same as WTF except you can be disqualified for excessive but it never happens.WTF is incredible nonsense in terms of realism for combat but it does make good kickers.
WTF and ITF are basically the same level of trash IMO you can’t sit here and say light contact derpy jump punches to the head are any better
@@scarred10 Totally agree. Plus a lot of protections. As for making good kickers, they're not. They're acrobats.
Definitely prefer ITF TKD To WTF TKD, the only thing I hate is that stupid Sine Wave that only happens in the Forms and Basics. It dissappears in sparring, proving its useless
Sine wave actually exists in all combat sports, it's just not evident. it's simply the use of body mass and momentum. the idea is to strike with the body weight going down and into the technique.
people missunderstand what it really is when looking from the outside.
@@Liquidcadmus where, its only apparent in ITF, definitely not in Kyokushin or Ashihara etc. I spoke to a senior grade who knew General Choi personally. He said Choi was going to remove it but died beforehand. Why can't I see it in sparring then or self defence?
@@blacktigermartialarts7329 general choi was not going to remove it. Anytime you put your weight into a punch, thats wave motion. Its just subtle.
It was only introduced in late 1970s/80s to make it different from Karate. Old style ITF used a waist twist, like Karate.
@@moominpic it wasn't actually to make it different from karate. Gen Choi spoke with a lot of people who were into physics and looked for body mechanics that would increase power and efficiency in movement. either way works though.
McDojang?
Guess that’s the word 😛
Sounds like a burger with Korean patty
I hate Olympic style of tkd. Kicking is fantastic but punching is almost non-existent.
All Taekwondo comes from South Korea, but ITF is indeed what is taught in North Korea. WTF is promoted by the South Korean govt.
WT TKD separated due to internal quarrels w
and the connection of TKD to communism in North Korea.
ITF teaches Taekwondo similar to Kickboxing.
It is more complete than WTF TKD since competition is an aspect of it, not the main training goal.
That being said, it is a striking art and does not teach dedicated wrestling. You need to crosstrain. And that is where the "depends on the person" or better: teacher kicks in (lol, get it?)
Man I wonder what that guy would say if he was shown those new k tigers video lmao. Probably gonna see a new vein erupt across his forehead
Show me. I don't think I"ve seen those K Tigers videos either ;)
K tigers is a joke. As someone who started in old school TKD, I find what they do as an insult to the art. Not because of them personally, they are individully very athletic young men and women and are very talented, but because the south Korean ministry of culture is constantly pushing them as the example of what "real" taekwondo is. Its purely a way to market on the current k-pop fad as a means to sell TKD as a Korean commodity.
The president of the wtf organisation gave donald trump a black belt with certificate. Even though he never done taekwondo in his entire life. Thats how legit wtf is 🤣🤣🤣🤣 (yes I know its wt now but I am old school)
North Korean ITF self defense training involves throwing food at your attackers to stop their attacks.
Any style that has been around for a while becomes a business. Watch what happens to BJJ in next 10 years. Also you the channel owner need to expand your knowledge base on Martial Arts because some of stuff you say proves that you don’t know what you are talking about.
ITF is more Korean based, WTF is more westenised, just like Okinawa karate originated from China, and mainland japan Karate is more tailored .. but at the end of the day it's the individual.
Thanks for the detail!
Best Taekwondo is under Master Kwon from the Black Belt Center lineage
Lets, talk about TaeKwonDo,
Kpop and Taekowndo is a no go.
Parents. Baby sit your kids more.
Real fights are 90% fists and strength . Tkd no power no hands . Period
TKD in general is weak compared to useful martial arts
Yeah, i practique more than 2 years of wt tkd, and is only kicks without high guard
It's where I started out I joined a boxing gym not to long after and got my arse handed to me in sparring hence no more tkd and lots of boxing kick boxing then grappling
Doesn't mean it's entirely useless.
It's a great supplementary art
@@rysus you might aswell learn ballroom dancing it's useless
Train ITF, never WTF ! Muaythai is even best!